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MacRumors
Aug 15, 2006, 09:52 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

While early looks at Leopard have provided focus on the major features announced by Apple, the following minor features may prove to be interesting to day-to-day Mac users. Reports of the Leopard Developer's preview is that it is remarkably solid, and the user interface is more responsive ("snappier") than Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4).

Reports indicate that the Finder and Front Row are exactly the same as the Tiger versions, suggesting that unannounced improvements could be in store for them by Leopard's final release.

The following screenshots highlight new and interesting features:

iChat:

• iChat prefs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/ichatprefs.png) - with saves
• List of Buddies (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/ichatlist.png)
• iChat File Transfers (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/ichatfile2.png)
• Emoticons (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/ichatemoticons.png)
• User Profile (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/ichatprofile.png)

Safari:

• Bookmarks window (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safaribookmarks.png)
• Confirm? (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safariconfirm.png) - Warning for closing tabs
• Confirm? (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safariconfirm2.png) - Warning for losing Form data
• Safari Find (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/leopardsafarifind.jpg) - Find hilights words on the webpage
• Loading (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safariloading.png) - small icon showing load progress
• Window menu (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safaritabs2.png)
• Bookmark Tabs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/safaritabs3.png)

Spotlight:

• Spotlight Window (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/spotlight.png)
• Spotlight Menu (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/spotlightmenu.png)
• Spotlight Quick Look (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/quicklook.png).

Misc:

• Battery Meter (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/batterymeter.png).
• Dock Preferences (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/dockprefs.png) - with addition of "Springing" option.
• Invoke expose in Spaces (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/leopardexposeinspace.jpg)
• Finder Prefs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/findergrid.png) - Grid spacing
• Preview (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/preview.png) - improved buttons
• Group Move in Spaces (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/leopardspacesgroupmove.jpg) - hold command and drag a group of windows.
• Leopard Trash Window (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/trash.png) - now with Empty button
• Other Preference Panes: Time Machine Prefs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/timemachineprefs.png), Spaces Prefs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/spacesprefs.png)

menziep
Aug 15, 2006, 09:54 AM
NiceFeatures!

spicyapple
Aug 15, 2006, 09:54 AM
Safari improvements are most needed, especially Safari Find seems like something I'll use more often.

ifjake
Aug 15, 2006, 10:04 AM
it's the little things...

iGary
Aug 15, 2006, 10:06 AM
Still... meh.

nagromme
Aug 15, 2006, 10:09 AM
"Warning for losing Form data"

They've got my money :D (And Firefox-style Find!)

And I really have to believe that the old metal look will be gone in the end, replaced by the new iTunes look.

Current theme count for the record:

* White aqua (with three different toolbar styles: old, unified/no-line, and little-icons-on-gray-pills like Mail)

* Textured metal

* Smooth metal (iTunes)

* Dashboard (non-aqua sliders)

* Black bezel (like the floating controls in iPhoto)

* Pro aqua (gray with thinner title bars--Final Cut etc.)

* EDIT: new "quick look (http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:leopardquicklook.png)" theme?

All of those are used by multiple apps. There are also special variations like GarageBand, but those are fun and not objectionable to me.

EDIT: Actually, none of the above are objectionable to me--they have their uses--just so we get down to ONE metal look instead of two :) And my vote for best toolbar is the big icons (not gray pills), but in the unified/no-line format. Just like Tiger's System Preferences. (Not like Mail, not like Safari Preferences.) But it looks like the gray pill thing is spreading in Leopard. I can deal... just make it more consistent.

Don't get me started on all the different kinds of non-icon toolbar buttons that appear in metal apps :) Some look like glass, some like metal, etc.....

icerabbit
Aug 15, 2006, 10:09 AM
More important than an "empty" button I would like to see a restore function in the Trash, where you can highlight one or more files or folders and click the "restore" button.

jameshopkins
Aug 15, 2006, 10:12 AM
Whats happening with iChat, are they getting it to work with MSN Messenger networks like with AOL?

I have just switched to Mac, and it's annoying I cant Video Conference with any MSN Messenger users (MSN Messenger on Mac doesnt support it). iChat is awesome but I have no contacts, lol. Anyone know of any other way, I have tried AdiumX and looked into Jabber.

arn
Aug 15, 2006, 10:38 AM
The images will return shortly. I overloaded the guides server with that.

arn

MacBoobsPro
Aug 15, 2006, 11:05 AM
More important than an "empty" button I would like to see a restore function in the Trash, where you can highlight one or more files or folders and click the "restore" button.

Ahem... Time Machine!

Doc didnt spend all that time inventing the flux capacitor for nothing you know :D

Lixivial
Aug 15, 2006, 12:03 PM
Ahem... Time Machine!

I believe icerabbit was referring to a feature to restore an item to its original location once putting it in the trash. Windows has this feature in the recycle bin and it's a handy little feature.

This isn't to do with Time Machine as the user has not yet deleted the item from the Trash and the system.

nagromme
Aug 15, 2006, 12:53 PM
I believe icerabbit was referring to a feature to restore an item to its original location once putting it in the trash. Windows has this feature in the recycle bin and it's a handy little feature.

This isn't to do with Time Machine as the user has not yet deleted the item from the Trash and the system.
If so, that's a feature Macs had up until OS 9 (it was called Put Away) and it was nice--I'd be glad to have it back. Undo usually meets this need for me, but not always. (I think Put Away also worked for files you dragged onto the desktop.)

BornAgainMac
Aug 15, 2006, 01:17 PM
...start your copiers.

FF_productions
Aug 15, 2006, 01:20 PM
So far, Leopard is something I'm not willing to pay for.

I expected just a little bit of a UI change, it just looks like a little updated version of Tiger.

I really wonder what these top secret features are because the current features aren't impressing me enough to open my wallet.

Chundles
Aug 15, 2006, 01:22 PM
So far, Leopard is something I'm not willing to pay for.

I expected just a little bit of a UI change, it just looks like a little updated version of Tiger.

I really wonder what these top secret features are because the current features aren't impressing me enough to open my wallet.

Ergh, you do realise this is a Developer's Preview? A BETA version ie. not finished, not anywhere near finished, feature-incomplete, "for testing only" version of Leopard don't you?

Tiger (especially Dashboard) changed beyond recognition between it's sneak peek and release.

manic
Aug 15, 2006, 01:23 PM
* Black bezel (like the floating controls in iPhoto)



I think that black bezel stripe is IDENTICAL to the taskbar in VISTA. It looks good, but its too similar. eek!

wmmk
Aug 15, 2006, 01:23 PM
The images will return shortly. I overloaded the guides server with that.

arn
some images are up, but others are not. hmmmmm.........

arn
Aug 15, 2006, 01:28 PM
some images are up, but others are not. hmmmmm.........

all images should be back up now. some of the urls have changed, so make sure you are linking from the latest version of the post.

arn

MacBoobsPro
Aug 15, 2006, 01:29 PM
I think that black bezel stripe is IDENTICAL to the taskbar in VISTA. It looks good, but its too similar. eek!

They have been in iPhoto for ages. Its Vista robbing Apple again! ;)

One thing im not too keen on is the Safari loading icon. I think the loading bar in Tiger is much easier to see.

If you are working in another window you can see the bar shooting along (or not) the Safari window with out looking directly at it. If they keep this new one then you will have to 'actually look at it' to see where its at.

Some cynics will say im crazy but I think most of you guys know what i mean!

dextertangocci
Aug 15, 2006, 01:30 PM
What is that "springing" option with the dock?

Teddy's
Aug 15, 2006, 01:31 PM
Still... meh.
oh... come on! :mad:

AtHomeBoy_2000
Aug 15, 2006, 01:35 PM
I love Bookmarking tabs thing. I loved that in Netscape. Very usefull!

crees!
Aug 15, 2006, 01:35 PM
So what's the Stand menu in Safari between Window and Debug?

MacBoobsPro
Aug 15, 2006, 01:36 PM
I believe icerabbit was referring to a feature to restore an item to its original location once putting it in the trash. Windows has this feature in the recycle bin and it's a handy little feature.

This isn't to do with Time Machine as the user has not yet deleted the item from the Trash and the system.

Sorry IceRabbit i misread your post. My bad! :o

Chundles
Aug 15, 2006, 01:43 PM
What is that "springing" option with the dock?

Spring-loaded folders in the dock. So you can drag a file onto a folder in the dock and have it spring open - like in the Finder.

playaj82
Aug 15, 2006, 01:44 PM
I'm still waiting for a 3-D way of exploring the finder.

Something similar to the movie Hackers

Core Animation, just one more step in that direction

MacRumoron
Aug 15, 2006, 01:44 PM
i like the new Preview look :)

Applespider
Aug 15, 2006, 01:48 PM
The Exposé in Spaces screenshot is wild...

And agree with Chundles that until we see ALL of Leopard's features listed, there's no way you can make a valid purchase decision on it.

CHROMEDOME
Aug 15, 2006, 01:49 PM
god iChat looks like Adium now...I refuse to use it.(except for video chattin)

Sky Blue
Aug 15, 2006, 01:53 PM
Aww, no more blue filling up URL bar in Safari?

I like the definition in Spotlight

tiramisu
Aug 15, 2006, 01:56 PM
see a little demo animation for search inside the safari app.
http://www.handras.hu/stuff/ani2.mov

milo
Aug 15, 2006, 01:58 PM
The new features look pretty cool...but I generally think it's worth getting the upgrades just for fixes and optimizations.

And from what people are saying, even this early beta of Leopard brings teh snappy.

IEatApples
Aug 15, 2006, 02:00 PM
More important than an "empty" button I would like to see a restore function in the Trash, where you can highlight one or more files or folders and click the "restore" button.I want a way to see how much space the trash is taking up before I empty it. Is there a way? There was in OS 9 and OS 8.

Texas04
Aug 15, 2006, 02:01 PM
Granted there are a few changes... and they are pretty nice, (spaces I cant see myself using) and time machine is the only thing i see worth while. They need to fix the Aim/iChat thing with Trinton users... they need easier connection 2.. tabbed is nice... but its not a huge improvement... Its just a lot of little stuff.

But I stand by Apple for now, that they do have some "bigger" features they just aren't showing us....

Paranoidmarvin
Aug 15, 2006, 02:01 PM
What I think we really need is several separate themes:

Brushed metal
Solid Metal (eg iTunes)
Bezel (eg Front row like or iPhoto in full screen)
Aqua
Plastic (like mail, or the UNO theme)

Also we need proper MSN intergration in iChat. NO-ONE USES iCHAT UP HERE!!!

avkills
Aug 15, 2006, 02:02 PM
Well anyone with a G5 or Mac Pro should not even question the upgrade as it brings a full 64bit OS to your machine. Couple that with point upgrades to applications to 64bit and you have some massive memory enhancements.

-mark

Applespider
Aug 15, 2006, 02:06 PM
I want a way to see how much space the trash is taking up before I empty it. Is there a way? There was in OS 9 and OS 8.

I use the Junk Meter widget (http://www.dashboardwidgets.com/showcase/details.php?wid=607) to see mine and just leave it sitting open on Dashboard all the time.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 15, 2006, 02:09 PM
Aww, no more blue filling up URL bar in Safari?

I agree - I'm not a huge fan of the pie that's used in iWeb. Definitely prefer the blue filling up the URL bar...:(

spriter
Aug 15, 2006, 02:12 PM
So what's the Stand menu in Safari between Window and Debug?

I guess that'd be Safari Stand (http://hetima.com/safari/stand-e.html). Unless... :eek:

thefunkymunky
Aug 15, 2006, 02:14 PM
Anyone else notice the window shadows are still visible in the Expose/Spaces screenshot. Windows shadows disappear when you invoke Expose in Tiger. Maybe this is power of Core Animation starting to show?

I think Apple have something quite amazing happening with the Finder interface in Leopard which is now possible with the introduction of Core Animation.

Glassman
Aug 15, 2006, 02:15 PM
Aww, no more blue filling up URL bar in Safari?
I question the same, I liked that a lot, hope it's configurable :( and what about the classical popping sidebars? I don't like the way new Preview handles them inside the window and it seems like this is the way of future, how sad :( I'm not very fond of Mail styled buttons, probably the only Mac design element I don't like very much..

sunfast
Aug 15, 2006, 02:20 PM
Also we need proper MSN intergration in iChat. NO-ONE USES iCHAT UP HERE!!!

if only. if only. but I can't see it happening. it's such a shame because I'd love to be able to use iChat

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 15, 2006, 02:26 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Reports indicate that ... Front Row are exactly the same as the Tiger versions, suggesting that unannounced improvements could be in store for them by Leopard's final release.

Hmmm, why would an update of Front Row be deemed top secret...
Could this suggest that the mythical iHome might be coming soon?

jsw
Aug 15, 2006, 02:28 PM
Hmmm, why would an update of Front Row be deemed top secret...
"Top secret" also probably means "not developed enough to show yet".

I seriously doubt any or many features are actually being withheld to stop MS from implementing them.

crees!
Aug 15, 2006, 02:28 PM
Hmmm, why would an update of Front Row be deemed top secret...
Could this suggest that the mythical iHome might be coming soon? I think you're right and there will be some type of recording available through FrontRow. SJ said, "We hear you loud and clear" on this topic.

Tommyg117
Aug 15, 2006, 02:28 PM
thank goodness for the ichat upgrades.

Chundles
Aug 15, 2006, 02:28 PM
Hmmm, why would an update of Front Row be deemed top secret...
Could this suggest that the mythical iHome might be coming soon?

Well, I don't know about the name considering iHome are a successful company that make a range of iPod-enabled clock radios but it certainly sounds like a good product.

mdntcallr
Aug 15, 2006, 02:31 PM
how about some safari improvements like:

ability to search other search engines, like firefox does. why just google?
why not wikipedia, IMDB, AMAZON, EBAY and more?

also how about ability to have bookmarks in a click menu, like yahoo toolbar, where it can be shared among a login on your .mac acct? across all your computers, ie laptop and workstation?

just some ideas

TheSpaz
Aug 15, 2006, 02:31 PM
Spring-loaded folders in the dock. So you can drag a file onto a folder in the dock and have it spring open - like in the Finder.

Oh. I thought it would be how fast the dock unhides when you hover over it.

jsw
Aug 15, 2006, 02:32 PM
also how about ability to have bookmarks in a click menu, like yahoo toolbar, where it can be shared among a login on your .mac acct? across all your computers, ie laptop and workstation?
You can already sync bookmarks with .Mac, as well as access them online.

2nyRiggz
Aug 15, 2006, 02:40 PM
Still... meh.

Agreed....Think they will change up UI a little(I mean allows us to transparent the dock without an app..stuff like that)






Bless

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 15, 2006, 02:40 PM
Well, I don't know about the name considering iHome are a successful company that make a range of iPod-enabled clock radios but it certainly sounds like a good product.
well, I was more talking about a digital media hub gadget previously named iHome. uHome? would do just as well for me, just begin to produce it. ;)

Daschund
Aug 15, 2006, 02:41 PM
thank goodness for the ichat upgrades.

I'd still second the request that it needs to work with MSN to be useful in the real world...

Daschund

BenK01
Aug 15, 2006, 02:41 PM
But I stand by Apple for now, that they do have some "bigger" features they just aren't showing us....

What's the next logical step in a computer interface? I used to say "Computer, show me the money" to open Quicken back in pre-OS X days. More of a gimmick than anything else, but imagine if the Finder and maybe even other apps became "speakable."

Me: "Check mail"

Computer: "You have nine new messages. Would you like me to read them?"

Me: "No, thanks."

(clicks on an email, reads message)

Me: "Reply to this message"

Computer: "Type or speak?

Me: "Type"

type-type-type

Me: "Computer, I'd like to add a photo of the kids to this email."

Computer: "iphoto has 6,813 pictures of the kids, which one would you like?"

Me: "One from the birthday party last week."

Computer: (a strip from iphoto appears) "Here are 23 from last week. I've highlighted the one where your wife fixed the red eye. Is that the one you want?"

Me: "Yes, that will be fine."

Computer adds the picture to stationery in the email, other pictures go away.

Me: "Send the email"

Me: "...and order me a pizza."

This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.

MacBoobsPro
Aug 15, 2006, 02:43 PM
if only. if only. but I can't see it happening. it's such a shame because I'd love to be able to use iChat

NO one uses iChat because no one uses AIM. Its all crappy MSN!

IEatApples
Aug 15, 2006, 02:46 PM
I use the Junk Meter widget (http://www.dashboardwidgets.com/showcase/details.php?wid=607) to see mine and just leave it sitting open on Dashboard all the time.Thanks! :) It's great, but I would have preferred a "get info" option, or something like that.
Oh well..

ebow
Aug 15, 2006, 02:50 PM
i like the new Preview look :)

I don't. Well, if they would make most other apps follow the same look (pioneered by Mail.app) then I wouldn't mind it too much. The number of distinct interface styles is getting to be absurd. :rolleyes: Thank goodness for UNO (http://gui.interacto.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1).

nagromme
Aug 15, 2006, 02:51 PM
One thing im not too keen on is the Safari loading icon. I think the loading bar in Tiger is much easier to see.

If you are working in another window you can see the bar shooting along (or not) the Safari window with out looking directly at it. If they keep this new one then you will have to 'actually look at it' to see where its at.

I'll chime in too agree with everyone on this :) Sites have all different favicons in that spot--so there's no one image to show the page is loaded! Bad place for a progress meter. The big bar was better.


I want a way to see how much space the trash is taking up before I empty it. Is there a way? There was in OS 9 and OS 8.
Silly as it seems, you can Select All in the Trash, then Get Info. (Or Cmd-A Cmd-I for short.)

Applespider
Aug 15, 2006, 02:55 PM
NO one uses iChat because no one uses AIM. Its all crappy MSN!

I use iChat with a Jabber ID to chat to my MSN buddies. I don't tend to send them files or audio chat with them so it's fine for just text.

xPismo
Aug 15, 2006, 02:58 PM
Progress is good, but I don't see any killer apps which will make me upgrade day 1. This might change, but really 10.4 does everything I need it to do so far.

I guess my pro apps will probably force me to upgrade at some point.

Does anyone else get a kitten ichat image with the third spotlight image? Is that a new feature? (/me missed something.)

[edit] ah I get it now. That image should have some context around it... its a preview image in spotlight... maybe I' slow today. :)

baleensavage
Aug 15, 2006, 03:01 PM
A lot of the features look great but the Spotlight screenshot has me worried. It looks like very little has changed with the results. The biggest failure of Spotlight for me has been the lack of the ability to sort your results by modification date. I used to use the find file to look for items on our server all the time, now it is totally useless because they show up alphabetically. I would have hoped that Apple would have gotten wise about that with Leopard. Apparently they havent listened to all the Mac users who think that Spotlight in Tiger is trash.

m-dogg
Aug 15, 2006, 03:02 PM
I like the safari updates like the warnings and ability to consolidate tabs into one window. Those are some little things I've wished for.

There are some add-on's available to accomodate some of these today, but I'm happy to see them finally being integrated into the app itself.

ebow
Aug 15, 2006, 03:04 PM
Does anyone else get a kitten ichat image with the third spotlight image? Is that a new feature? (/me missed something.)

It's the new Kitten War (http://kittenwar.com/) integration in 10.5--supposed to be a top-secret feature but I guess the cat's out of the bag (pun intended for my enjoyment only--I'm in a lonnng meeting).

SiliconAddict
Aug 15, 2006, 03:06 PM
Purchase spare battery? Nice Apple nice. :rolleyes: It may be a legit option, god knows its somewhat a PITA to find on apple's site, but still. I don't want to hear anyone complaining about MS's in OS ads.

Applespider
Aug 15, 2006, 03:11 PM
Purchase spare battery? Nice Apple nice. :rolleyes:

Wasn't there a 'purchase printer ink' in Tiger somewhere? I don't have a printer at home so can't check... but pretty sure I remember us having the 'OS as a shop' discussion a couple of years ago.

DPazdanISU
Aug 15, 2006, 03:13 PM
Oh. I thought it would be how fast the dock unhides when you hover over it.

im pretty sure this allows you to control how often applications spring up and down in the dock when something happens in them-- kinda like when you get an incoming chat while you are using another app...

alot of people get annoyed by that feature and i am one of them

Project
Aug 15, 2006, 03:14 PM
I dont see what the problem is for something like a battery.

ebow
Aug 15, 2006, 03:17 PM
im pretty sure this allows you to control how often applications spring up and down in the dock when something happens in them-- kinda like when you get an incoming chat while you are using another app...

alot of people get annoyed by that feature and i am one of them

I'm pretty confident that aspect is called "bounce". I know that Adium has an option to limit how many bounces the icon makes when it's trying to notify you of something. I thought that there was a setting for the OS itself but I could be wrong.

The only significant place Apple has used the term "spring" before is with spring-loading folders, something they haven't yet brought to folders placed in the dock, so that must be what it means.

dongmin
Aug 15, 2006, 03:18 PM
• Finder Prefs (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/findergrid.png) - Grid spacingYes! Welcome to the 21th century, Apple. About time. The current grid spacing is one of my biggest OS X peeves.

dongmin
Aug 15, 2006, 03:20 PM
see a little demo animation for search inside the safari app.
http://www.handras.hu/stuff/ani2.movHas that pop-up video flavor, doesn't it??? Stylin...

elmimmo
Aug 15, 2006, 03:21 PM
• Preview (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/preview.png) - improved buttons
Hey, don't say that too loud.

From the ever changing Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIcons/chapter_14_section_2.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000967-TPXREF102):Making each toolbar icon distinct helps the user associate it with its purpose and locate it quickly. Variations in shape, color, and image all help to differentiate one toolbar icon from another.
And that's how they read now… "Back" at the release of Tiger it was like this: Each toolbar icon should be easily and quickly distinguishable from the other items in the toolbar. Toolbar icons emphasize their outline form, rather than subtler visual details.
55119(no explanation on why the changed was deemed more appropriate).

Hey, don't look at me. I did not write that!

Cougarcat
Aug 15, 2006, 03:28 PM
i like the new Preview look :)

Really? I can't stand it. The buttons break Apple's own Human Interface guidelines and make the interface even less inconsistent. One of the first things I did when I got tiger was to install Mail Stamps (http://www.andrewescobar.com/mailstamps/) to restore the old look.

Leondunkleyc
Aug 15, 2006, 03:29 PM
.

Porchland
Aug 15, 2006, 03:30 PM
What's the next logical step in a computer interface? I used to say "Computer, show me the money" to open Quicken back in pre-OS X days. More of a gimmick than anything else, but imagine if the Finder and maybe even other apps became "speakable."

Me: "Check mail"

Computer: "You have nine new messages. Would you like me to read them?"

Me: "No, thanks."

(clicks on an email, reads message)

Me: "Reply to this message"

Computer: "Type or speak?

Me: "Type"

type-type-type

Me: "Computer, I'd like to add a photo of the kids to this email."

Computer: "iphoto has 6,813 pictures of the kids, which one would you like?"

Me: "One from the birthday party last week."

Computer: (a strip from iphoto appears) "Here are 23 from last week. I've highlighted the one where your wife fixed the red eye. Is that the one you want?"

Me: "Yes, that will be fine."

Computer adds the picture to stationery in the email, other pictures go away.

Me: "Send the email"

Me: "...and order me a pizza."

This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.

I want mine to use the old-school Mac voice that Radiohead used in "Fitter Happier."

playaj82
Aug 15, 2006, 03:30 PM
Has that pop-up video flavor, doesn't it??? Stylin...

I wish you could change the color or shape of the pop-up.
Or, if you could use Independent ResUI and have it zoom in on that portion of the web page where the word appears, but within the Safari web browser.

Or combine it with some core animation stuff and blacken the rest of the screen except for the Safari browser, and put red dots on the term each place it shows up like a laser pointer in a presentation

That would be slick

ebow
Aug 15, 2006, 03:32 PM
I want mine to use the old-school Mac voice that Radiohead used in "Fitter Happier."

Good ol' Fred is still there, from what I've read elsewhere. "... a pig, in a cage, on antibiotics." :D

edit:corrected the lyric :p

CANEHDN
Aug 15, 2006, 04:00 PM
This excites me so. These seem like some nice features. I guess I will have to go buy an external HD to utilize Time Machine. I can't wait to see what the other "hidden" features are going to be. It gets me all tingly.

abrooks
Aug 15, 2006, 04:01 PM
NO one uses iChat because no one uses AIM. Its all crappy MSN!

You do realise that AIM is the largest active IM network currently, that is why people use iChat and Apple make it.

Edit: Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3031796.stm)just in case someone doubts me.

Phil A.
Aug 15, 2006, 04:11 PM
A lot of the features look great but the Spotlight screenshot has me worried. It looks like very little has changed with the results. The biggest failure of Spotlight for me has been the lack of the ability to sort your results by modification date. I used to use the find file to look for items on our server all the time, now it is totally useless because they show up alphabetically. I would have hoped that Apple would have gotten wise about that with Leopard. Apparently they havent listened to all the Mac users who think that Spotlight in Tiger is trash.

You can sort by date now in spotlight (at least the main spotlight search from the menu bar) - just click "show all" at the top of your spotlight results list and you get a new window that will allow you to sort and group the results to your heart's content. As spotlight will be extended to cover data on servers in Leopard I guess that functionality will be available across network files

arn
Aug 15, 2006, 04:12 PM
I agree - I'm not a huge fan of the pie that's used in iWeb. Definitely prefer the blue filling up the URL bar...:(

Apparently, the blue pie thing is an option. the blue url bar is still default.

arn

Leondunkleyc
Aug 15, 2006, 04:14 PM
.

Leondunkleyc
Aug 15, 2006, 04:19 PM
.

quigleybc
Aug 15, 2006, 04:23 PM
Still... meh.


I agree,

Can't wait to spend $130.00 for those features !! :rolleyes:


too bad I totally will.....:o

JoshH
Aug 15, 2006, 04:24 PM
I like to see little changes in the details... I can't wait to see what else develops over the coming months.

wyatt23
Aug 15, 2006, 04:27 PM
i think everything about the leopard looks amazing. i cannot wait for someone to waste a few hundred on vista super duper ultimate media server edition. and os x will still be the next best thing

scamper
Aug 15, 2006, 04:28 PM
It looks like the menu text default has dropped from 14pt Lucida Grande in Tiger to 13pt Lucida Grande in Leopard -- a welcome change.

Fotek2001
Aug 15, 2006, 04:40 PM
Still... meh.

Care to explain why? From what I've seen (as someone who's used Leopard and not just looked at screenshots), it's a huge leap in many subtle ways...

People seem to want new gadgets and gizmos yet the most requested changes are subtle improvements to current features like grid spacing in the Finder and simplified backup... What do you want...?

Core Trio
Aug 15, 2006, 04:41 PM
NO one uses iChat because no one uses AIM. Its all crappy MSN!


It must just be where I live but...everyone I know uses AIM, ichat, or adium (my weapon of choice) I dont have a single friend that uses yahoo or msn

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 04:44 PM
What's the next logical step in a computer interface? I used to say "Computer, show me the money" to open Quicken back in pre-OS X days. More of a gimmick than anything else, but imagine if the Finder and maybe even other apps became "speakable."

Me: "Check mail"

Computer: "You have nine new messages. Would you like me to read them?"

Me: "No, thanks."

(clicks on an email, reads message)

Me: "Reply to this message"

Computer: "Type or speak?

Me: "Type"

type-type-type

Me: "Computer, I'd like to add a photo of the kids to this email."

Computer: "iphoto has 6,813 pictures of the kids, which one would you like?"

Me: "One from the birthday party last week."

Computer: (a strip from iphoto appears) "Here are 23 from last week. I've highlighted the one where your wife fixed the red eye. Is that the one you want?"

Me: "Yes, that will be fine."

Computer adds the picture to stationery in the email, other pictures go away.

Me: "Send the email"

Me: "...and order me a pizza."

This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.The funniest post i've read all year! You're a genius. :D
(That and the one someone here wrote about Rosanne and Giselle in the new Mac ad)

MrCrowbar
Aug 15, 2006, 04:50 PM
It looks like the menu text default has dropped from 14pt Lucida Grande in Tiger to 13pt Lucida Grande in Leopard -- a welcome change.

Nice indeed. Is there a way to custumize the menu bar font in Tiger? The font is way to big in my opinion and you can never have enough info icons up there. I hate it when some are hidden cuz the main menu is so wide...

Jimmni
Aug 15, 2006, 04:50 PM
Call me crazy, but I'd not be surprised if Leopard was a free update for Tiger owners - if not all Mac owners. A great way to steal a good bit of Vista's thunder and address those absurd "Mac OS costs $5000 if you've bought every version and Windows only costs $100" complaints.

MrCrowbar
Aug 15, 2006, 04:52 PM
have a guest account that doesn't require a login, but gets wiped after they logout.


Niiice! Now that's what I call a guest account.

BrianMojo
Aug 15, 2006, 04:55 PM
Doing things to improve existing features like many of the things in this thread are what make me happy, I must say.

I worry that with all the graphical trickery and little gizmos the OS is getting too convoluted. I'd very much like to see everything become more integrated and straightforward rather than increasingly complicated. I appreciate options added for power users and I use many myself, but I'm hoping that the essential OS experience does not grow more complicated.

WildCowboy
Aug 15, 2006, 04:55 PM
ability to search other search engines, like firefox does. why just google?
why not wikipedia, IMDB, AMAZON, EBAY and more?

You can do that now with AcidSearch (http://www.pozytron.com/?acidsearch)...

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 04:57 PM
I want mine to use the old-school Mac voice that Radiohead used in "Fitter Happier."
I used to be a big fan of Radiohead, I have most of their albums, but I no longer listen to them. I'm gone very Jazz and 80's lately :p

amanset
Aug 15, 2006, 05:01 PM
It must just be where I live but...everyone I know uses AIM, ichat, or adium (my weapon of choice) I dont have a single friend that uses yahoo or msn

It does vary quite a lot by where you live. Living in Sweden (and coming from the UK) just about everyone I know uses MSN.

EricNau
Aug 15, 2006, 05:03 PM
I find it interesting that the text "purchase spare battery" changes to "purchase replacement battery" when the battery health is poor.

However I would rather the "purchase spare battery" didn't exist (although the "purchase replacement battery" is fine IMO). When Apple is trying to sell you a spare battery it seems too much like an advertisement, but when Apple is trying to help you out and replace your battery it seems like they are being nice and helping you out.

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 05:03 PM
I like to see little changes in the details... I can't wait to see what else develops over the coming months.
Nearly 8 months till spring?

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 05:07 PM
It looks like the menu text default has dropped from 14pt Lucida Grande in Tiger to 13pt Lucida Grande in Leopard -- a welcome change.
I looked, and I don't see what you see?

Jimmni
Aug 15, 2006, 05:08 PM
I looked, and I don't see what you see?

It's not in the main menus, but it is in the menu item menus on the right.

Stella
Aug 15, 2006, 05:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple have disabled some functionality.

They know damn well 'secret' features will be leaked out.

The UI theme may change - it doesn't take long.

rjfiske
Aug 15, 2006, 05:09 PM
Call me crazy, but I'd not be surprised if Leopard was a free update for Tiger owners - if not all Mac owners.

You're crazy. :) But one thing I would like to see is a free upgrade to iLife for everyone who upgrades Leopard. Or else some kind of Leopard / iLife buy-together discount. That would be most welcome.

rjf

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 05:18 PM
You can do that now with AcidSearch (http://www.pozytron.com/?acidsearch)...
Inquisitor (http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/) is the best thing evar!!

jaxstate
Aug 15, 2006, 05:19 PM
Hey u haven't seen the "200 new features". Just kidding. I'm with you. The only upgrade I paid for was from Jag to Panther, I wanted to use Expose. But I only got Tiger due to the fact that it came on new MBPs. This OS release hasn't shown anything that's really worth it. :rolleyes:
So far, Leopard is something I'm not willing to pay for.

I expected just a little bit of a UI change, it just looks like a little updated version of Tiger.

I really wonder what these top secret features are because the current features aren't impressing me enough to open my wallet.

steve_hill4
Aug 15, 2006, 05:27 PM
What's the next logical step in a computer interface? I used to say "Computer, show me the money" to open Quicken back in pre-OS X days. More of a gimmick than anything else, but imagine if the Finder and maybe even other apps became "speakable."

Me: "Check mail"

Computer: "You have nine new messages. Would you like me to read them?"

Me: "No, thanks."

(clicks on an email, reads message)

Me: "Reply to this message"

Computer: "Type or speak?

Me: "Type"

type-type-type

Me: "Computer, I'd like to add a photo of the kids to this email."

Computer: "iphoto has 6,813 pictures of the kids, which one would you like?"

Me: "One from the birthday party last week."

Computer: (a strip from iphoto appears) "Here are 23 from last week. I've highlighted the one where your wife fixed the red eye. Is that the one you want?"

Me: "Yes, that will be fine."

Computer adds the picture to stationery in the email, other pictures go away.

Me: "Send the email"

Me: "...and order me a pizza."

This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.
That sounds similar to that Apple advert from years ago whcih showed a concept of the future where you would have a true conversation way of working with a computer. We are slowly, but surely moving there.

motulist
Aug 15, 2006, 05:37 PM
Sigh, I'm getting the distinct impression that iCal is going to add a bunch of new features and not fix many of the usability problems it already has now. For instance, there is no way to shift several events in time simultaneously, you have to change each one individually. Another is that when you select several events from different calendars and copy and paste them they all turn into the same calendar category.

There are many more problems like these, but I've seen no mention in the preview reports that iCal has done anything to refine the existing features, only that new features are being added. If anyone with a preview can inform me of the contrary I'd be quite happy to hear it.

Chundles
Aug 15, 2006, 05:51 PM
It does vary quite a lot by where you live. Living in Sweden (and coming from the UK) just about everyone I know uses MSN.

Same here, it seems that AIM is only popular within the US. Elsewhere Messenger totally dominates.

I don't know a single person who uses AIM. Not one.

AlanAudio
Aug 15, 2006, 06:02 PM
You're crazy. :) But one thing I would like to see is a free upgrade to iLife for everyone who upgrades Leopard. Or else some kind of Leopard / iLife buy-together discount. That would be most welcome.

rjf

Obviously we'd all like to get something for nothing, but as the newest OS and the newest iApps both come for free with every new Mac, the boxed versions are effectively upgrades and Apple would feel that they're offering them at reduced prices anyway compared to their full value.

But I'd love to be wrong on this.

Which reminds me. Every time I've bought an OS upgrade ( for as long as I can remember - probably back to OS 7 ) there has been a set of coupons included to prove that I purchased it. Has there ever been a scheme where customers actually get something in exchange for those coupons ?

WildCowboy
Aug 15, 2006, 06:08 PM
Which reminds me. Every time I've bought an OS upgrade ( for as long as I can remember - probably back to OS 7 ) there has been a set of coupons included to prove that I purchased it. Has there ever been a scheme where customers actually get something in exchange for those coupons ?

I believe there was a coupon upgrade program for 10.0 to 10.1. It was a "free" upgrade that cost $19.95 if you ordered the CD from the online store, but there were some copies available free of charge at some retail locations (this was pre-brick and mortar Apple Stores) like CompUSA and Fry's while supplies lasted. Many retailers didn't require proof of 10.0 ownership as the 10.1 was upgrade-only and thus useless to people who didn't have 10.0 installed already, but some asked for proof of purchase for 10.0. The coupon generally satisfied that requirement (as would a sales receipt).

eddyg
Aug 15, 2006, 06:17 PM
Hi,

It doesn't look as if Spaces can work this way - but if you have multiple
screens then it would be nice to assign one or more spaces to that screen.

Is that how it works?

Or does it treat the other screens as an extension of the current Space?

Cheers, Ed.

awideseaofeyes
Aug 15, 2006, 06:18 PM
does anyone know a rough date for its release?

Griffindor73
Aug 15, 2006, 06:21 PM
Looking forward to it if it is more stable than Tiger. I run Panther on my iBook and Tiger on my G5 iMac and the iBook knocks the socks of the iMac for reliability.

Hopefully they will sort out the horrendous sound quality of imported tracks that I get in iTunes when I import them on my G5 iMac.

Overall I think Panther was the best version of OSX so far, (because of how stable it was) so I am hoping this one is as good as that!

EricNau
Aug 15, 2006, 06:24 PM
does anyone know a rough date for its release?
"spring"

(March 20 to June 21)

damienvfx
Aug 15, 2006, 06:31 PM
What's the main wallpaper look like? Is this going to change before the final release, or is it going to be the same like Vista's Beta?

shooterlv
Aug 15, 2006, 07:22 PM
Mail now has*RSS Support

Screensaver shows timer when locking the screen if you have it set to require a password.

Installers now make a chime when done.

mcornill
Aug 15, 2006, 07:22 PM
Whats happening with iChat, are they getting it to work with MSN Messenger networks like with AOL?

I have just switched to Mac, and it's annoying I cant Video Conference with any MSN Messenger users (MSN Messenger on Mac doesnt support it). iChat is awesome but I have no contacts, lol. Anyone know of any other way, I have tried AdiumX and looked into Jabber.

You can use aMsn an open-source MSN client which supports web cams (including the embedded iSight).
http://amsn.sourceforge.net/download.php
It's available as a universal binary.

Matt

Booga
Aug 15, 2006, 07:32 PM
C'mon, Opera has had the ability to save the open tabs for, what, 5-6 years? Safari is really so broken that they have to prompt to close the tabs instead of just saving the state so it can be brought back up next time it's launched?

MooVitZ
Aug 15, 2006, 07:39 PM
• Battery Meter (http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/batterymeter.png).


Is anyone else bothered by the button to buy more batteries?

GoCubsGo
Aug 15, 2006, 07:48 PM
Still... meh.
Agreed.

Demoman
Aug 15, 2006, 07:51 PM
I think that black bezel stripe is IDENTICAL to the taskbar in VISTA. It looks good, but its too similar. eek!

Microsoft - no one has accused them of being creative, except in monopoly.

Demoman
Aug 15, 2006, 08:40 PM
The Exposé in Spaces screenshot is wild...

And agree with Chundles that until we see ALL of Leopard's features listed, there's no way you can make a valid purchase decision on it.

Understand, I am not suggesting how you should spend your money. This is just another opinion. But, I have been through all the 'cats' from the .0 release on. I have never had reason to complain.

Apple may not be perfect, but they sure beat the pants off Brand X. I have been working in IT since 1981. I have spent the vast majority of time with Workstations and PC's. These include every incarnation of DOS and Windows, SPARC/Sun, SGI/MIPS, OS/2, and the IBM RS-6000 Series. I am a late arrival to Apple/Macs. In fact, it was somewhat by accident. But, I am now convinced OSX is the finest desktop OS ever made. Until this no longer the case, I will throw my support fully behind the most innovative HW/SW manufacturer in the world. I would gladly pay full price for a beta copy of Leopard right now.

Frisco
Aug 15, 2006, 08:42 PM
Is anyone else bothered by the button to buy more batteries?

Yes, it seems like a Microsoft thing.

Stridder44
Aug 15, 2006, 08:53 PM
i like the new Preview look :)

http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/preview.png


Am I the only one that thinks this is potentially the new UI?

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 15, 2006, 09:04 PM
("Preview" preview)


Am I the only one that thinks this is potentially the new UI?
I hope so, because they could easily make a nice "preview" like the dark floating controls in iPhoto.
Someone suggested that earlier, and I though it was a good idea, and then I remembered I had the same idea the other day. Great minds think alike, so this must happen.

motulist
Aug 15, 2006, 09:14 PM
Is anyone else bothered by the button to buy more batteries?

Yes, it seems like a Microsoft thing.

It's actually a very Apple thing to do. Apple has always been about making a totally integrated, complete end-to-end computing environment and Apple has also always been dedicated to transforming things that had been difficult for non-techies to do into some so simple and effective that even advanced technical users decide it's the best method. This is probably not the first time an option to buy hardware has been built into software, but just like Time Machine is revolutionary because it's the first SIMPLE file-by-file backup system and not because it's the first backup system ever, so too this "Buy Battery" button is revolutionary because of how simple and integrated it is.

I'm hardly an Apple apologist, I complain quite loudly when they do things that are lame. But I think this is a very Apple thing to do and a feature that isn't just a built in advertisement. If I had an OS X button to buy a new battery when I wanted one, rather than tracking down the battery model number I needed and having to worry about who to buy from and bothering with technical details, I'd definitely appreciate being able to just click that button.

Making the entire computer experience simple, easy and fun is what Apple has always been about, and this is a natural continuation of those ideals. In fact, I hope they expand this functionality to include upgrading ram and hard disks (as long as they don't go overboard with the prices like in the b.t.o. options at the apple store).

Really this is a wonderful new breakthrough in Apple's quest for computing easiness.

akac
Aug 15, 2006, 09:19 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/preview.png


Am I the only one that thinks this is potentially the new UI?

I don't mind the "bubbles" in concept. What I think is hideous is the ovalness of them and the coloring. I'd prefer something lighter and beveled.

motulist
Aug 15, 2006, 09:30 PM
I don't mind the "bubbles" in concept. What I think is hideous is the ovalness of them and the coloring. I'd prefer something lighter and beveled.

A lot of this comes down to personal preference. Personally, I think OS X's UIs have gotten better with each iteration. Imo, this new bubble ui is better than brushed metal, which was better than candy. Personally, I like UI elements that are shaded to look 3D (which these are not) so that they look like actual objects you are manipulating, what makes you prefer bevels to ovals? (not that there's anything wrong with that ;) )

mikes63737
Aug 15, 2006, 09:33 PM
NO one uses iChat because no one uses AIM. Its all crappy MSN!

Around here AIM is all anyone uses...

It's starting to look really interesting. I'm extremely happy that Time Machine is optional... I don't delete anything unless I'm sure I won't need it. And, I back up my home folder to my server about every week, and I keep it for about a month and then delete it.

I also hope that there's different themes... like brushed metal, soft metal, aqua, etc.

MattInOz
Aug 15, 2006, 09:38 PM
Making the entire computer experience simple, easy and fun is what Apple has always been about, and this is a natural continuation of those ideals. In fact, I hope they expand this functionality to include upgrading ram and hard disks (as long as they don't go overboard with the prices like in the b.t.o. options at the apple store).

Really this is a wonderful new breakthrough in Apple's quest for computing easiness.

While their at it, the same feature could not only order the ram or hard drive for you, but using the the new iCal server features could have at look at the nearest Apple Store and give you list of free booking times to drop in and have the upgrade done for you.

motulist
Aug 15, 2006, 09:43 PM
While their at it, the same feature could not only order the ram or hard drive for you, but using the the new iCal server features could have at look at the nearest Apple Store and give you list of free booking times to drop in and have the upgrade done for you.

That would be another useful feature for users which would also be profitable for Apple. Jobs should be paying us money for all these great ideas!

spicyapple
Aug 15, 2006, 09:48 PM
"Top secret" also probably means "not developed enough to show yet".
Steve's Reality Distortion Field™ at work, no doubt. The man has a spin for everything!

dongmin
Aug 15, 2006, 10:06 PM
Your lucky day. Look at the search bar on http://images.macrumors.com/downloads/leopardsafarifind.jpgWhy not integrate internet search into Spotlight??? I search the internet far far more than I do Spotlight (I barely use Spotlight--too sluggish on my iBook). If they'd integrate google, wiki, amazon, etc. people'd be using Spotlight all day long. Get people into the habit!

WhiteShadow
Aug 15, 2006, 10:16 PM
top secret can also mean surprise. they didn't show us all the things they mentioned are improved.

dongmin
Aug 15, 2006, 10:18 PM
Really? I can't stand it. The buttons break Apple's own Human Interface guidelines and make the interface even less inconsistent. One of the first things I did when I got tiger was to install Mail Stamps (http://www.andrewescobar.com/mailstamps/) to restore the old look.Agreed, about the buttons. But at least the sidebar is improved in a useful way. I hate how the text on the current sidebar hangs to the side of the images, taking up valuable width.

aafuss1
Aug 15, 2006, 11:34 PM
Where's drag and drop tabs in Safari-Firefox has that.

shooterlv
Aug 15, 2006, 11:41 PM
Screenshot of Mail RSS

http://static.flickr.com/79/216605843_a6122c3d48.jpg

[Edited to add another image]
http://static.flickr.com/67/216611149_4b45ff407f.jpg

and of screensaver counting down to lock

http://static.flickr.com/85/216603134_6fb5838c20_o.jpg

EricNau
Aug 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
It's actually a very Apple thing to do. Apple has always been about making a totally integrated, complete end-to-end computing environment and Apple has also always been dedicated to transforming things that had been difficult for non-techies to do into some so simple and effective that even advanced technical users decide it's the best method. This is probably not the first time an option to buy hardware has been built into software, but just like Time Machine is revolutionary because it's the first SIMPLE file-by-file backup system and not because it's the first backup system ever, so too this "Buy Battery" button is revolutionary because of how simple and integrated it is.

I'm hardly an Apple apologist, I complain quite loudly when they do things that are lame. But I think this is a very Apple thing to do and a feature that isn't just a built in advertisement. If I had an OS X button to buy a new battery when I wanted one, rather than tracking down the battery model number I needed and having to worry about who to buy from and bothering with technical details, I'd definitely appreciate being able to just click that button.

Making the entire computer experience simple, easy and fun is what Apple has always been about, and this is a natural continuation of those ideals. In fact, I hope they expand this functionality to include upgrading ram and hard disks (as long as they don't go overboard with the prices like in the b.t.o. options at the apple store).

Really this is a wonderful new breakthrough in Apple's quest for computing easiness.
I almost agree with you. I think it is helpful for Apple to provide an easy link for users who have a bad battery and need to buy another "replacement" battery; however, when Apple is trying to sell you a "spare" battery, something you really don't need, they seem like the salesmen knocking on your door trying to sell you a $1400 vacuum.

MacRumoron
Aug 16, 2006, 12:11 AM
i'm liking the new mail features :D

I don't mind the "bubbles" in concept. What I think is hideous is the ovalness of them and the coloring. I'd prefer something lighter and beveled.

i happen to like the ovalness and coloring :P

Stridder44
Aug 16, 2006, 12:25 AM
i'm liking the new mail features :D



i happen to like the ovalness and coloring :P


Exactly, it just seems like that's where the new UI is going to go. Mail made the change, now Preview?? A random app like preview gets that same change? Im thinking it might be a sign of things to come..

matticus008
Aug 16, 2006, 01:11 AM
Hey, don't say that too loud.

From the ever changing Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIcons/chapter_14_section_2.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000967-TPXREF102):
And that's how they read now… "Back" at the release of Tiger it was like this:(no explanation on why the changed was deemed more appropriate).

Hey, don't look at me. I did not write that!
It's still the same story. The icons are still distinctive and easily identified by their outline, as per interface guidelines. The fact that they're on a consistent and unified "button bar" or "bubble" is simply an aesthetic decision. Safari and the Finder have worked in this fashion since the beginning and no one threw the "HIG book" at Apple for that.

KingYaba
Aug 16, 2006, 03:37 AM
I think I like the brushed metal look much better. :(

iNev
Aug 16, 2006, 04:12 AM
Around here AIM is all anyone uses...

Well around here most people use MSN with a smattering of Google's Jabber messenger thing. As pointed out elsewhere, it's very geographical dependant (i.e. AIM in the US, MSN everywhere else).

I have just switched to Mac, and it's annoying I cant Video Conference with any MSN Messenger users (MSN Messenger on Mac doesnt support it). iChat is awesome but I have no contacts, lol. Anyone know of any other way, I have tried AdiumX and looked into Jabber.

I've tried aMSN/Mercury and plain didn't like it. Ugly, slow and couldn't get my iSight to even look like it was going to work. Now playing around with the Yahoo messenger for video chats since the Y!/MSN protocol partnership.

aafuss1
Aug 16, 2006, 04:19 AM
FireFox already lets you drag tabs around-why not Safari?

And with phishing-a phishing filterl, like in IE7 would be good to have for .Mac users in Safari.

Mail already has a phishing filter you will see a pop-up that shows you the actual URL that you will be taken to.

motulist
Aug 16, 2006, 04:35 AM
I think I like the brushed metal look much better. :(

My opinion of brushed metal is that it's a very good theme and has big a cool factor, but the clean lines and clarity of the new theme has already won me over. It's not perfect, there are things I'd change, but I think it's a nice step up.

In fact, it reminds me of a super evolved version of OS 9's platinum look, which I really liked.
For those too young in Mac world to remember OS 9's platinum theme, you can see some here in the paragraph titled "Platinum vs. Aqua Interface Pictures" but bear in mind that this interface is VERY old at this point, so you to have think of it in context and not compare it to an interface from 2006.

http://www.ae-data.com/download.html

But why are OS X's UI designers so averse to putting in a line that demarks where the title bar stops and the window body begins?

bm0rg
Aug 16, 2006, 06:04 AM
Should I see if i can install this beta I got from a friend?

motulist
Aug 16, 2006, 06:38 AM
Should I see if i can install this beta I got from a friend?

Mmm hmm.

#1) NEVER install beta software, especially not an OS, on a computer that you care about at all. It could potentially destroy your computer and destroy everything on your hard disk.

#2) NEVER NEVER EVER run software you got from a "friend."

#3) Talking about pirating software, which this is, is prohibited on this forum.

aegisdesign
Aug 16, 2006, 07:19 AM
Around here AIM is all anyone uses...

The American market is not like the rest of the world and it really isn't 'all anyone uses'.


Here's a more recent survey...

"London, April 10, 2006 – comScore Networks, the leader in digital media measurement, today released the results of an analysis of instant messenger (IM) usage in various parts of the world. According to the study, eighty-two million people, or 49 percent of the European online population, used IM applications to communicate online in February. In comparison, sixty-nine million people in North America, or only 37 percent of the online population, used IM during the same timeframe. Interestingly, the analysis showed that IM is most heavily used in the Latin American region, with 64 percent of the online population using IM in February.

The MSN Messenger application has the strongest penetration worldwide, with 61 percent of worldwide IM users utilizing the application in February. MSN Messenger is also dominant in Latin America, reaching more than 90 percent of IM users, and in Europe and Asia Pacific, reaching more than 70 percent of IM users in each region. North America is the most competitive IM market, with MSN Messenger, AOL/Aim and Yahoo! Messenger each garnering between 27 percent and 37 percent of IM users in February.

Additional IM programs are gaining ground, especially outside of North America. Skype is now used by 14 percent of IM users worldwide, although this application is used by only 3 percent of the online population in North America. Skype appears most popular in Asia Pacific, reaching 26 percent of the region’s IM user population."

http://www.comscore.com/press/release.asp?press=800


I wonder if the fragmentation in the American market with no real leader in the IM space is what's holding back usage. It seems to be that where MSN rules, IM usage is much higher. Also, for Europe, we've a much higher usage of SMS mobile phone texting than the USA so the concept of text chatting is pretty engrained in our psyche.

It really is quite stupid that the IM networks don't talk to each other and I do hope Apple changes that allowing easy use of MSN at least. At least if they do add MSN support it'll give the MacBU at Microsoft something else to drop support for. :D

ebow
Aug 16, 2006, 07:22 AM
But at least the sidebar is improved in a useful way. I hate how the text on the current sidebar hangs to the side of the images, taking up valuable width.

So instead, the new sidebar pushes into the image, reducing it in size, and requiring you to expand the width ( :eek: ) of the window if you want to keep the image the same size. I don't really see the overall difference. I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer the images to get slightly smaller, or the tray to suddenly cover over other things.

aegisdesign
Aug 16, 2006, 07:32 AM
It's still the same story. The icons are still distinctive and easily identified by their outline, as per interface guidelines. The fact that they're on a consistent and unified "button bar" or "bubble" is simply an aesthetic decision. Safari and the Finder have worked in this fashion since the beginning and no one threw the "HIG book" at Apple for that.

Oh yes they have.

Safari was the biggest abuse of the Metal UI going until they added it to Finder too. Metal is right for Quicktime, DVD Player and at a push iTunes if a little dated now.

Adding the Mail style buttons in Preview is just plain wrong, ugly, stupid, bad. If they do that OS wide, I'm skipping the upgrade until someone comes out with a tool like CageFighter to change the icons back like we got for Mail in Panther. If they persist with Aqua, Metal, Unified, Dark Unified and lord knows what else, I'm waiting for a port of UNO to Leopard. UNO has massively improved Tiger by banishing the metal and aqua stripes.

Also, the sidebar is a retrograde step too. The drawer in Preview can be resized without changing the size of the content in the main window. You can't do that with a sidebar. It's also white, unlike Mail's light blue. Wrong, wrong, bad, ugly, inconsistent and stupid.

They seem to be throwing out good UI design and entire elements of OSX just for the sake of something new to show.

aegisdesign
Aug 16, 2006, 07:33 AM
So instead, the new sidebar pushes into the image, reducing it in size, and requiring you to expand the width ( :eek: ) of the window if you want to keep the image the same size. I don't really see the overall difference. I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer the images to get slightly smaller, or the tray to suddenly cover over other things.

Not just me then. Typed whilst I was mid rant too. :)

abrooks
Aug 16, 2006, 07:47 AM
Currently? That article's 3 years old! Did you see the size of those mobiles? Also parts where they mention that IMing could be the next big thing give away its age a bit.

OK if that's not good enough for you then this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_messaging) should be, scroll down to the User Base section, Neilsen still rates AIM the largest by a large chunk.

ebow
Aug 16, 2006, 08:06 AM
UNO has massively improved Tiger by banishing the metal and aqua stripes.

Also, the sidebar is a retrograde step too. The drawer in Preview can be resized without changing the size of the content in the main window. You can't do that with a sidebar. It's also white, unlike Mail's light blue. Wrong, wrong, bad, ugly, inconsistent and stupid.

They seem to be throwing out good UI design and entire elements of OSX just for the sake of something new to show.

Amen! And Apple deserves to have their very own HIG Book thrown at them. It's like the different application teams are working in relative isolation. I can see the Preview folks saying "Hey, the Mail team had some extra hours for their UI guys and came up with this new look! Cool, let's use it next time around so we can be cool, too. Oh, and we'll change that blue area to white for our own flair." The drawer UI element was one of those things touted as a novel and useful feature of OS X, way back in the DP and 10.0 days, but it's been a steady march away from common UI elements since then.

Back to the toolbar for a moment, has anyone seen or made a mockup of what a window would look like with the "unified" appearance combined with more traditional toolbar icons (not outlined by buttons / ovals)?

Evangelion
Aug 16, 2006, 08:06 AM
That sounds similar to that Apple advert from years ago whcih showed a concept of the future where you would have a true conversation way of working with a computer. We are slowly, but surely moving there.

"Computer! Computer? Hello computer"

"Just use the keyboard"

"Keyboard? How quaint"

milo
Aug 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
Is anyone else bothered by the button to buy more batteries?

No. Some people *want* a spare battery, if you don't want it don't buy it. It's not like it's a popup ad or something.

The American market is not like the rest of the world and it really isn't 'all anyone uses'.

Which is why he began the statement AROUND HERE. Since when does "around here" mean "everyone in the world"?

LieutenantLefse
Aug 16, 2006, 12:49 PM
I want a way to see how much space the trash is taking up before I empty it. Is there a way? There was in OS 9 and OS 8.

It's quite simple:

$ du -hs .Trash

Shintocam
Aug 16, 2006, 01:48 PM
Spring-loaded folders in the dock. So you can drag a file onto a folder in the dock and have it spring open - like in the Finder.

Actually you can already do this - I have my documents, applications and photos folders on the dock and they spring open etc...Excellent feature by the way. I think all they are really doing is giving you the ability to control how long you have to wait before they spring.....

rorschach
Aug 16, 2006, 02:21 PM
Dunno if this was posted, but Safari lets you resize text boxes within pages:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8060/picture28by6.th.png (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture28by6.png)
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/6174/picture29ps1.th.png (http://img272.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture29ps1.png)

playaj82
Aug 16, 2006, 03:25 PM
Dunno if this was posted, but Safari lets you resize text boxes within pages:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8060/picture28by6.th.png (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture28by6.png)
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/6174/picture29ps1.th.png (http://img272.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture29ps1.png)

That is pretty cool

matticus008
Aug 16, 2006, 04:10 PM
Adding the Mail style buttons in Preview is just plain wrong, ugly, stupid, bad. If they do that OS wide, I'm skipping the upgrade until someone comes out with a tool like CageFighter to change the icons back like we got for Mail in Panther. If they persist with Aqua, Metal, Unified, Dark Unified and lord knows what else, I'm waiting for a port of UNO to Leopard. UNO has massively improved Tiger by banishing the metal and aqua stripes.
If that's your opinion, so be it, but the HIG was meant to avoid confusing icons, not create a puzzling array of button shapes. A consistent button (not icon) shape is not an interface crime, and to say it is borders on ludicrous.

Having all the buttons on a consistent bar is a superior integration of control surfaces and is in fact a useful visual indication of function grouping along what could otherwise be a long strip of control surfaces. It's just a modernized reimagination of the very dated-looking vertical separator.

Also, the sidebar is a retrograde step too. The drawer in Preview can be resized without changing the size of the content in the main window. You can't do that with a sidebar. It's also white, unlike Mail's light blue. Wrong, wrong, bad, ugly, inconsistent and stupid.
Sidebars can be changed without affecting the main window if they're implemented properly, but other than that you're basically right, if a bit imperious.

cloud 9
Aug 16, 2006, 05:21 PM
Uhm, is it me, or do i see more and more inconsistencies in the ui?

the buttons on the spotlight window or nothing like the buttons on the preview window for example..and i wonder why.

not that tiger is that consistent...

081440
Aug 16, 2006, 05:55 PM
So far, Leopard is something I'm not willing to pay for.

I expected just a little bit of a UI change, it just looks like a little updated version of Tiger.

I really wonder what these top secret features are because the current features aren't impressing me enough to open my wallet.


Don't speak too soon. Just because you don't know what the new features are doesn't mean you won't like them!

maverick808
Aug 16, 2006, 07:47 PM
Don't know if this has already been reported but in .Mac there are now options to sync Dashboard, Dock and Preferences.

Fotek2001
Aug 17, 2006, 09:44 AM
Dunno if this was posted, but Safari lets you resize text boxes within pages:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8060/picture28by6.th.png (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture28by6.png)
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/6174/picture29ps1.th.png (http://img272.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture29ps1.png)

Would be better if it worked like OmniWeb and allowed you to open a resizable floating window for the text.

Fotek2001
Aug 17, 2006, 09:50 AM
Also, the sidebar is a retrograde step too. The drawer in Preview can be resized without changing the size of the content in the main window. You can't do that with a sidebar. It's also white, unlike Mail's light blue. Wrong, wrong, bad, ugly, inconsistent and stupid.

Has it occurred to you that the white background was intentional because the sidebar is being used to display images and thumbnails of text? A coloured background wouldn't really suit that use (IMHO).

I never liked drawers so I'm glad to see the back of them. :D

Fotek2001
Aug 17, 2006, 09:51 AM
Uhm, is it me, or do i see more and more inconsistencies in the ui?

the buttons on the spotlight window or nothing like the buttons on the preview window for example..and i wonder why.

not that tiger is that consistent...

Don't forget this is a preview. I don't think we're seeing the full picture yet.

cloud 9
Aug 17, 2006, 10:33 AM
Don't forget this is a preview. I don't think we're seeing the full picture yet.

it's true i know :-)

the complicater a os becomes the harder it is to create a descent consistent ui, so i'm really curious :)

appleguy
Aug 18, 2006, 03:58 AM
I have had Leopard running tonight
it feels so much nicer and faster on my G4 1.4 Mac Mini (w 1GB of RAM)
anyone got any questions??

oootle
Aug 18, 2006, 04:07 AM
the way finder has been left with no changes kind or less indicates that there is a bit of a UI refresh in the bag for Leopard.

motulist
Aug 18, 2006, 06:21 AM
I have had Leopard... anyone got any questions??

Yeah, I got a few about iCal.

1) Is there now a way to shift several events in time simultaneously, so you don't have to change each one individually when you want to move a group of events?

2) When you select several events from different calendars and copy and paste them do they all turn into the same calendar category like the current version of iCal operates?

3) Are there any more display options that let you control how events are displayed?

slidingjon
Aug 18, 2006, 07:50 AM
What's the next logical step in a computer interface? I used to say "Computer, show me the money" to open Quicken back in pre-OS X days. More of a gimmick than anything else, but imagine if the Finder and maybe even other apps became "speakable."

Me: "Check mail"

Computer: "You have nine new messages. Would you like me to read them?"

Me: "No, thanks."

(clicks on an email, reads message)

Me: "Reply to this message"

Computer: "Type or speak?

Me: "Type"

type-type-type

Me: "Computer, I'd like to add a photo of the kids to this email."

Computer: "iphoto has 6,813 pictures of the kids, which one would you like?"

Me: "One from the birthday party last week."

Computer: (a strip from iphoto appears) "Here are 23 from last week. I've highlighted the one where your wife fixed the red eye. Is that the one you want?"

Me: "Yes, that will be fine."

Computer adds the picture to stationery in the email, other pictures go away.

Me: "Send the email"

Me: "...and order me a pizza."

This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.


You watch too much Star Trek. It's still a computer, not a digital house servant. Although..... that would be pretty cool. "Computer, go make me a sandwich."

mjstew33
Aug 18, 2006, 08:12 AM
You watch too much Star Trek. It's still a computer, not a digital house servant. Although..... that would be pretty cool. "Computer, go make me a sandwich."
I also find that in the near future.

Definitely coming soon.

cmm
Aug 18, 2006, 03:29 PM
Still... meh.

Agreed. Where's the selling point?

Lixivial
Aug 18, 2006, 03:40 PM
This kind of thing can't be too far off. A 75 mhz Performa could do it in a rudimentary way. Imagine what a modern Mac may be able to do. "Speakeasy" has a nice ring to it.

Have you ever used "Speakable Items" in OS X? When it works, which, in my experience, on Intel Macs is a big if, it is remarkably flexible and wonderful. It's a refined version of Mac OS 8 thru 9's, but has been neglected, I think. It's not to the point where you are talking about, but if Apple dedicated an entire team to it, I believe we could see it in a couple of point releases.

You can already attach it to almost any system and application command, applescripts, hotkeys (cmd-A), menus, etc but its biggest problem is voice recognition (and stability). If they could work these kinks out, then I'd expect it to be a very refined and usable piece of software.

Speaking of which, does anyone with the preview and an Intel Mac know how well Speakable Items performs? I have hopes because of Steve's presentation on improvements to "Universal Access."

appleguy
Aug 18, 2006, 04:41 PM
1) Is there now a way to shift several events in time simultaneously, so you don't have to change each one individually when you want to move a group of events?
Nah you can select more than one event but you can only move one at a time.

2) When you select several events from different calendars and copy and paste them do they all turn into the same calendar category like the current version of iCal operates?
Okies I tried to select 2 events (2 different days on 2 different Calendars)
I then created a new calendar and pasted the 2 into there. Both changed to that colour Calendar. was that what you were after?

3) Are there any more display options that let you control how events are displayed?
Not from what I can see.
the version number of ical is 3.0

motulist
Aug 18, 2006, 06:56 PM
... was that what you were after?

No, that's the opposite of what I was after, that's the bug it has now. Sigh, this is exactly what I predicted, they added a bunch of new features but haven't fixed any of the major usability bugs and flaws it already has. Why does apple show iCal such contempt?

appleguy
Aug 18, 2006, 07:05 PM
No, that's the opposite of what I was after, that's the bug it has now. Sigh, this is exactly what I predicted, they added a bunch of new features but haven't fixed any of the major usability bugs and flaws it already has. Why does apple show iCal such contempt?
what are you after then?

motulist
Aug 18, 2006, 09:16 PM
what are you after then?

I want to be able to move several events to another day or time, and since there's no "shift event times" feature, I want to at least be able to cut and paste them and remain in their original calendar! This happens every time there is a change in a day's schedule where several events have to happen sequentially.

For instance, let's say this is my typical monday schedule

9 am - 12 noon: economics class (classes calendar)
12 noon - 1 pm: lunch (misc. calendar)
1 pm - 2 pm: study group meeting (school work calendar)
2 pm - 3 pm: mud pie making 101 (classes calendar)

Then because of a holiday, the school makes tuesday November 17th follow a monday schedule. But there is NO way to move more than one event to another day or time! And if you try to cut and paste then all the events lose their calendar assignments! That is TOTALLY not the way cut and paste is supposed to work! The whole concept of cut and paste is that you can cut information from one place and paste it in a different place and have it be exactly as it was when you cut it out.

That's just 1 example of when "shift event times" is desperately called for, and there's a zillion others. If I wake up an hour late on a day when I'm doing errands then most of my day has to get shifted an hour later, but there's no way to do that. If a client decides to change a meeting time and there are a whole sequence of events that can't happen until you meet with him, then you have to shift the meeting time and all the events that come after it to a different time or day, but there's no way to do that. This ability is SORELY needed in iCal, but I guess actual usability is too unsexy for Apple to care about these days. Do I sound a bit peeved? Good, because I am.

super-cool
Aug 19, 2006, 03:44 AM
What is with all the pop up warning on safari. Warning you have tabs open do you want to quit? Warning, you have text if field do you want to quit? You know what? I don't press apple-q on accident, in fact I'd say you'd have to do that on purpose. All these pop-up and confirms, well I fear it's become more windows like if you will. Pretty soon no one will read the things. I sure hope you can turn the things off, or hope they change it.

For those who remember, when apple had an early release or beta of OS X, they put the apple logo right in the middle of the top bar, not to mention it did nothing and was completely non functional. Glad they didn't go with that. I'm hoping they do away with these confirm buttons

Can't an OS be simple to use anymore?

imnotatfault
Aug 19, 2006, 06:46 AM
Can't an OS be simple to use anymore?

NO WAY! That would actually make sense.

Mal
Aug 19, 2006, 08:31 AM
What is with all the pop up warning on safari. Warning you have tabs open do you want to quit? Warning, you have text if field do you want to quit? You know what? I don't press apple-q on accident, in fact I'd say you'd have to do that on purpose. All these pop-up and confirms, well I fear it's become more windows like if you will. Pretty soon no one will read the things. I sure hope you can turn the things off, or hope they change it.

For those who remember, when apple had an early release or beta of OS X, they put the apple logo right in the middle of the top bar, not to mention it did nothing and was completely non functional. Glad they didn't go with that. I'm hoping they do away with these confirm buttons

Can't an OS be simple to use anymore?

You can turn off those confirmations if you like, but I for one will be very glad they're there. An accidental slip of the fingers has cost me a good bit of time in the past because I closed a web form I was working on. If Safari had caught that I was still filling it out and didn't necessarily want to close the page yet, it could have saved me a lot of trouble.

jW

imnotatfault
Aug 19, 2006, 08:32 AM
Safari needs to integrate Saft's features natively. Then NO ONE could complain about its functionality.

ZoomZoomZoom
Aug 19, 2006, 08:38 AM
What is with all the pop up warning on safari. Warning you have tabs open do you want to quit? Warning, you have text if field do you want to quit? You know what? I don't press apple-q on accident, in fact I'd say you'd have to do that on purpose. All these pop-up and confirms, well I fear it's become more windows like if you will. Pretty soon no one will read the things. I sure hope you can turn the things off, or hope they change it.

For those who remember, when apple had an early release or beta of OS X, they put the apple logo right in the middle of the top bar, not to mention it did nothing and was completely non functional. Glad they didn't go with that. I'm hoping they do away with these confirm buttons

Can't an OS be simple to use anymore?

I welcome the pop up warning. I constantly open and close windows in tabs and what-not, and cmd-w and dangerously close to cmd-q. I've accidently hit it before, closing something like 15 tabs that I wanted to keep open. Maybe there will be a way for you to turn it off if you feel as if you don't need it.

Taking a good look at Leopard and what's on Tiger, I think that the majority of changes are either evolutionary or not really that exciting. /yawn

imnotatfault
Aug 19, 2006, 08:41 AM
Taking a good look at Leopard and what's on Tiger, I think that the majority of changes are either evolutionary or not really that exciting. /yawn

Well, at least with the new iChat features people MIGHT actually start using iChat instead of Adium. Maybe?

ZoomZoomZoom
Aug 19, 2006, 08:48 AM
Well, at least with the new iChat features people MIGHT actually start using iChat instead of Adium. Maybe?

Oh yeah, forgot about iChat. :p The remote desktops feature is neat. But I'm guessing that it'll only work Mac-to-Mac? Can still put it to good use, but still - for going 10.4 to 10.5, I feel as if Leopard has its uses but is underwhelming in the end.

motulist
Aug 19, 2006, 09:25 AM
You're not excited about time machine? Seems like a killer app to me. I've never seen a backup system that looked better implemented. For the huge number of us who don't have a backup system in place but know that we should, that alone makes Leopard worth the price of admission.

macjizz
Aug 19, 2006, 10:07 PM
Latest Skype beta works quite well. I use a blue-tooth headset with my macbook and the results are really incredible.


Whats happening with iChat, are they getting it to work with MSN Messenger networks like with AOL?

I have just switched to Mac, and it's annoying I cant Video Conference with any MSN Messenger users (MSN Messenger on Mac doesnt support it). iChat is awesome but I have no contacts, lol. Anyone know of any other way, I have tried AdiumX and looked into Jabber.

meridio
Aug 20, 2006, 05:38 AM
Hi, I'm new :)

Looking at the screenshots my impression is that the Finder is exactly the same as the "old" one. Does this mean that one of the secret feature is a completely new Finder?

(btw.. other screenshots of leopard and in particular XCode and Xray: http://www.macinquirer.net/page0/page0.php)

cloud 9
Aug 20, 2006, 06:05 AM
do you need to have a zillion gigabites free to use time machine in a decent way?

for example, if you have a 1 gigabite film, and u delete it 'putting it in the trash, and empty trash', it's still going to be on your hard drive, taking up space, right? and will it also save your cookies, bookmarks, deleted programs,

i rarely delete stuff by accident...so i hope this can be turned off, and won't interrupt much of my normal workflow, the way things are deleted now.

xUKHCx
Aug 20, 2006, 06:22 AM
do you need to have a zillion gigabites free to use time machine in a decent way?

for example, if you have a 1 gigabite film, and u delete it 'putting it in the trash, and empty trash', it's still going to be on your hard drive, taking up space, right? and will it also save your cookies, bookmarks, deleted programs,

i rarely delete stuff by accident...so i hope this can be turned off, and won't interrupt much of my normal workflow, the way things are deleted now.

You can turn Time-Machine off