Madden 07 (All Platforms)

[clayj]

Let the Maddenoliday begin!

I just picked up my copy... Xbox 360 version, Hall of Fame Edition. I normally wouldn't've sprung for the extra stuff (it's $10 more), but apparently this is going to be the LAST year that the EA football game carries the Madden moniker. I've heard he's retiring after this football season, and next year it'll be called EA ESPN 08 or some such nonsense. (I'd go with "NFL 08", myself. Keep it simple.)

Anyway, about to pop the game in now... will report back later!

[Tommyg117]

Let me know how it is clayj!

[AJ Muni]

I also picked mine up last night, at around 12:10, and was home playing it 15 minutes later. I was surprised to see there was around 50 people in line, but thank god i had already paid for mine so I was in the "V.I.P" line and it only took me 5 minutes. The game plays solid. I've been playing NCAA for some weeks now and to me the gameplay is similiar. I.E. the tackles, the receptions, sacks, and other type of moves. In comparison to last years Madden 06, there is no comparison what-so-ever. It's almost like night and day with 06 and 07. One of the things that kinda gets me is that some of the text is blurry to me. I have perfect vision, but I gotta really look at "Chambers" under the player when hes lined up at the line of scrimmage (because the name looks are crammed up) a little bit harder than I had before. This also happens when you play the mini games and its hard to see the score. I think this happens because I DO NOT HAVE AN HDTV, and this game looks like itll look alot better in HD. I'm at work and still half asleep because I played until real late, so I guess thats my cheap review..

[clayj]

AJ, have you noticed any "hesitation" while playing the game? I've noticed that from time to time, the graphics (like when a play ends and the new play selection doohickey comes up) will pause very briefly.

The game play is AWESOME, though, and the graphics are beautiful. This is definitely a quantum leap past Madden 06.

[Abulia]

LOL! I was coming here just to post a Madden thread and see if clayj had it yet...and of course he does! :D

I'll be picking mine up at lunch. Any info you can share to make the time pass faster would be great, clayj!

So who's up for some online play, or...dare I say it...a league? :eek:

[AJ Muni]

AJ, have you noticed any "hesitation" while playing the game? I've noticed that from time to time, the graphics (like when a play ends and the new play selection doohickey comes up) will pause very briefly.

The game play is AWESOME, though, and the graphics are beautiful. This is definitely a quantum leap past Madden 06.


I know exactly what your talking about clayj. You described it perfect. I see myself hitting the start button, or A button to speed things up, but that does'nt seem to help. Even though it only pauses briefly, it was something I noticed right away. It kind of reminded me of the NCAA 07 demo, but when I got the actual NCAA game it did'nt happen anymore. I guess its one of those things that we will get used to eventually. I also agree with you that the gameplay is beautiful. I was able to play one game online and there wasnt any lag for me which was impressive, because we all kno how those darn EA servers can be..

clayj, did you notice the text thing I was talking about in my past post?

I'll be home around 5, so if anyone wants to play hit me up with gamertag: AJ Muni

[2nyRiggz]

How is it so far.....is it worth the purchase or should I just 06 and add rookies to the mix?

You answered already...opps.....so whats new to the fold this time?





Bless

[AJ Muni]

How is it so far.....is it worth the purchase or should I just 06 and add rookies to the mix?

You answered already...opps.....so whats new to the fold this time?


Bless

Well off the bat there are some new additions to the "next gen" game. I speak on behalf of the 360, because I think some of the new features added to the 360 version were availiable last year for madden (ps2, xbox, etc.) They have superstar mode, which you create your player from birth. You pick parents, pick a position, go to the combine, get drafted, play in the NFL, and if your good enough make it to the Hall of fame. They also about 6 mini games which were absent last year (running challenge, passing, 40 yard dash, benchpress, and some other ones but I forgot). And also from what I see they've emphasized alot on the running game. If you choose a running play, you can be a lead blocker (fullback, tackle, or tightend) and block your way for your tailback. Thats pretty fun for me becuase I've always been a fan of running the ball. Thats my cheap review part 2...:D

[2nyRiggz]

That sounds really nice......whats with the grow from birth option though....are you allowed to play high school/college/pro ball with him?....take him to school get him good grades? ......sounds real interesting but whats the benefit for playing through this option?

Picking parents too huh........mind races;)




Bless

[AJ Muni]

That sounds really nice......whats with the grow from birth option though....are you allowed to play high school/college/pro ball with him?....take him to school get him good grades? ......sounds real interesting but whats the benefit for playing through this option?

Picking parents too huh........mind races;)
Bless

Its alot to type, so I'll just post it from the ign.com review.

It's one thing to score a touchdown as your favorite player, bust a cartwheel like Clinton Portis, flex to the crowd like T.O., but what if you were on the field next to them? That's the concept behind NFL Superstar Hall of Fame mode, one of the best new additions to the game in years. Create your player down to the DNA, picking the perfect parents to spawn a superstar. So if you think a doctor mom who likes spelunking and a golfing dad who plays videogames will make you a winning quarterback, here's your chance. Then again, if you don't like the parents you're given, all you have to do is hit a button and a new mom and dad appear. Cycle through sets of parents to find the perfect match (each coupling produces a different position on the field), then create your character's custom look down to the facemask, gloves, and pads. All positions except for punter and kicker are available to play, and every position is a completely different gaming experience. Become a receiver and call for the ball ala Randy Moss. Play tackle and try to pop holes for Edge. Take on corner and play bump and run, picking off passes like Champ and taking it back to the house (just don't run out of gas before you get there). Every position has a unique camera angle, and since you're only that player, you don't call the plays, you do what coach tells you, and when you're not in the lineup, you simply watch and cheer your teammates to get the job done as the game plays out before your eyes and you wait for your next opportunity to run onto the field.

But before your career begins you'll need to train your player and earn those valuable rating points by running the 40 and lifting weights at the combine, not to mention the timed IQ test that lets you know exactly where you stand in terms of brain versus brawn. There are also position specific drills you'll need to master in order to move up the draft board and justify your spot in the league. Once selected, it's off to training camp complete with practice and media time with annoying reporters. Next question.

Hire an agent, fire your agent, declare free agency, demand a trade, even guarantee a trip to the Super Bowl, but watch out, how you play and act affects your influence on the team and whether or not anyone will pay attention to the loud mouthed rookie. The better you play on the field, the more your team will rally around you and throw you the ball as you can actually spend influence points you earn through great plays to improve, not only your player, but your teammates, enhancing your chances of making it to the postseason.

As you build up your career stats, you'll also build up a Hall of Fame meter. Fill it up by the time you call it quits, and you'll be next in line to join Madden himself in Canton. And while some positions are definitely more fun than others (wide receiver and linebacker being the best), it will be interesting to see how many players try to make it to the Hall of Fame from every single spot on the field. In addition to your characters making the Hall, there are also over 140 Hall of Famers found in Madden that you will be able to unlock during gameplay, including players like Walter Payton and Earl Campbell. You'll even see these Hall of Famers pop up in Franchise mode on various teams through free agency. You think the Colts look tough this year, how about adding Barry Sanders to the backfield

[clayj]

clayj, did you notice the text thing I was talking about in my past post? Yes, I have it, too. The answer is that there is a sort of grid in front of the scoreboard banner (I guess to make it look cooler). The grid makes the numbers a bit hard to read even at 720p or 1080i.

[AJ Muni]

...dare I say it...a league? :eek:

I'm having a hardtime understanding how a league can work with sports game...any1 want to throw in their 2 cents? And if it sounds good..any1 wanna create one?

[KafkaWasRight]

I've been thinking about grabbing this since I've been in the mood for a sports game, but I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy it...I haven't played a football game since Tecmo Bowl on the NES! I have a feeling I'll be out of my league.

[sb58]

i have Madden06 for 360, its one of the first 2 games i got, along with PGR3. it was a great game and Madden07 will probably be too. i'll get it if it becomes a Platinum Hit or whatever for $20.

[wwooden]

Even though I own the 360, my roommate is going to buy this game. He is a huge Madden fan. He has a regular Xbox, but it was worth buying the 360 version because (I would hope) it is better and I also have live for him to play online. I personally haven't ever played a video football game, just too much to know and I never played nor watch football.

[Abulia]

I played around at lunch...quite a bit of fun!

Madden, gameplay-wise, is nearly identical to NCAA 07, which is a good thing in my book. It plays very well. Graphics are great. I haven't had any time to drill down into any depth as to the other features, such as the mini games or Superstar mode.

Regarding leagues, in the most simpliest version everyone takes a team and the default rosters, generates a schedule, and then plays another league memeber. Some games facilitate this within the game itself, but I don't think Madden on the 360 does. (League stats, message board, ability to trade players, draft, etc.)

[MS bulldog]

what's up with the fatigue meter? its like the guys are robots...don't they get tired?

[clayj]

what's up with the fatigue meter? its like the guys are robots...don't they get tired?There's a known bug in the software right now that prevents them from either getting tired, or from SHOWING that they're getting tired. EA has acknowledged this and has promised a patch soon.

I hope that they can also fix this "stuttering" issue, as well... the menus and such frequently delay by a fraction of a second during transitions.

[Abulia]

I'm known for some detailed reviews around here. Bask in my impressions on Madden 07. :D

I picked up Madden yesterday and spent about five hours with the game. I don't proclaim to be an expert by any means, but I have played football games/sims for close to two decades -- including Madden -- so take that for what it's worth. Consider these impressions versus an actual "review."

First, it goes without saying that Madden 07 for the 360 is a beautiful game that raises the bar even further. The on-field playing experience of football is tight, responsive, and fun. Where Madden "drops the ball" is in nearly every other aspect of the game.

Starting up you'll be confronted with the interface. Perhaps I'm getting dumber as I age, but every year the Madden interface gets harder and harder to navigate and use. Madden 07 is the worst to date, IMO, as the pop-up menu shows everything available, regardless of where you are. Prior versions loaded you into sandboxes, like loading up Franchise mode, while the current version lets you bounce out to "Play Now" from "Franchise" or "Superstar" modes. Another annoying thing are the transitions that, while cool, lock up the interface until they're done. So you'll get a prompt to press A to quit but can't do anything until the menu transition finishes drawing. It's flash over usability. And while you may think I'm being pedantic, consider that you'll be maneuvering through *thousands* of menus during your time playing Madden -- it gets old quick.

No where is this more prevalent than in Superstar mode. Superstar mode, as you know, lets you make your own football character and role-play their career. In starting it you pick his parents and then progress to the next screen to see what position you were given. This is annoying. If I want to play a wide receiver I have to select two parents -- at random -- press A to advance, see that I got stuck with LT and then X for the menu, go to "Load Superstar," confirm w/ A that I want to quit, then go back to "New Superstar" and A again to acknowledge the Superstar intro menu. Then I'm given two random parents and start the exercise *all over again* until you get the position you want. There is no way to back out to parent selection to choose again without quitting and restarting Superstar Mode. So, if you want to play a specific position -- and we all do -- prepare for lots of frustration.

My dislike of the interface really colors the entire Madden experience.

Continuing with Superstar mode you get to make your character and choose pre-made heads -- a shocking change from Tiger Woods or Fight Night Round 3 where you have total control over your avatar -- and outfit your Superstar. Next to the Calendar menu where you'll spend most of your time. You sign an agent out of six to choose from -- the same six every time -- and then go to workouts. These are the mini games.

The mini games are nice diversions but you have to do them if you want a good superstar. And you have to do them well. That means if you have no interest in the mini games (like me) then you have to learn how to play them in order to make a good Superstar. Why can't I just skip all that and get a Superstar that I want?

Anyhow, the 40 yard dash requires you to manipulate the two analog sticks simulating running legs. It's interesting at first but after 30 or so tries becomes repetitive and annoying. The bench press is a bit more tactical and fun. The position-specific drills will vary to your tastes. The defensive pass coverage, for example, is just plain hard. The CPU cuts on a dime and you'll find yourself flailing out there, being ineffective. Playing as a wide receiver is a bit more interesting, as you have cut moves and can call for the ball, and of course the CPU sticks to you like glue. You're scored on the minigames which somehow generates overall stats for your character. I say "somehow" because I've no idea what my character's stats are. There's no way to check (that I can find).

There's an e-mail option that sends pre-made messages to you, multiple choice Q/A with reporters, and a ten question IQ test. They're all cute the first time but after that, pointless and annoying. (Mechanically they determine your Superstar's outlook based on how you answer press questions, for example.)

You'll do the tryouts several times and the NFL combine. Eventually you'll reach Draft Day which is, like everything else in Madden, stale and boring. The screen pops up and says "You've been selected in the 3rd round by the Kansas City Chiefs" or whatever team. There's no pomp and pageantry, there's no thrill of seeing people go before you, just a dialog box that pops up. In fact I don't think there's any way to tell when you were picked beyond the round. So, for example, there doesn't appear to be a way to find out if you were the #1 pick in the draft.

Madden 07 has no soul.

The games are where disappointment turns to outright frustration. Each position, apparently, has its own camera.

Oh wait, the in game camera. There's one and you can't change it. More on this later.

...Anyway, each position has its own camera. The problem is that the camera view is *way too tight*! For example, on the WR the camera is so close you can see for about 10 yards around you. This isn't nearly enough to find a seam in the zone or worse, run towards the passing circle that suddenly appears on the ground 20 yards behind you. (You'll never see it.) It's an exercise in frustration.

Thinking it was just the WR, I made a Superstar HB. Same problem, but worse. Now you're behind the line of scrimmage but the tight camera view doesn't even let you see the tackles! Grrr!

Hike! The ball is snapped and you're immediately tackled by a defensive end that you never saw coming or had a chance go avoid.

Now I've only had a chance to try two positions but the Superstar mode -- much like the first player mode in NFL 2K series -- is a total bust. Sadly it was the feature I was most looking forward too.

Online play is there, but very basic. You can play online. That's it. No league support, no fantasy drafts (online or offline) or any way to play with your buddies in an online league. You can, in a franchise, invite online players to take over the opposing team but this seems like a weak gimmick at best. Why would I let a total stranger, for example, take over the other team in my Franchise mode and start raining down on me with cheese plays?

Now, onto the "bugs" you've heard about. Yes, fatigue does work and no, the game doesn't display it correctly (at all). That's not a big deal, IMO. The HoF "bug," however, is damn annoying. As your Madden Level increases (tied to your profile) you'll unlock HoF players who *are automatically added to the game's rosters.* That means that if you start a Franchise at level 8 you'll have 7 HoFers in the Free Agency pool for any team to take. Ditto with Superstar mode. The tactic is to manually load the default rosters before starting any Franchise or Superstar game to avoid having it littered with HoF players. (I'd link to the exact instructions by EA on how to do this but I'm feeling lazy at the moment.)

Speaking of lazy, the "manual" -- and I hesitate to call it that -- is your classic EA offering. It's barely 8 pages long and does nothing more than show the default controls.

Franchise mode is the other mode and the one I've spent the least time in. There's not much to talk about, as there's no fantasy draft, no owner mode, and none of the other features of years past, such as ESPN Radio or the newspaper clips. It's pick your team, wrestle with the interface, and play. That's it.

And this really gets to the point that I was speaking about earlier: Madden 07 has no soul. It's...boring. It's not a bad game, per say, but there's nothing that jumps up and grabs you and says "play me!" After year's past offerings its just a shallow copy of what its been before.

Gameplay, however, is where Madden shines. Presentation, unfortunately, is lacking.

The game of football in Madden *is* fun and feels good. The controls are responsive and the gameplay feels accurate. In fact, if you've played NCAA 07 -- warts and all -- then you've got a good idea of what Madden on the field is like, sans the Momentum Meter. I'd say that Madden plays a tighter game of football than NCAA but there's enough difference to make the two games feel different.

One huge difference is the announcing. There is a play-by-play announcer but it's Joe Generic and so horrible that it actually has me begging for the return of John Madden's play-by-play! (Egads!) The announcer seems to try to mimicking a radio program, as he sounds like he's talking to us through a tin can and piece of string.

The game lacks soul.

The new lead blocking feature is pretty nifty and although I'm not good at it, I like it. The vision cone ability returns but I'll be darned if I can figure out how to turn it on (not that I'd want to). Did I mention how much I hate the interface?

Like the other game modes, Madden -- on the field -- lacks soul. You score a touchdown, kick the extra point, and then head to kickoff. There's no overlay of the last drive, who scored the touchdown, time of possession. Anything. In fact I've yet to see *any* stat overlays in Madden. The game just...goes on.

That is when it doesn't...pause...constantly.

Fortunately the game doesn't...pause...during...play. Instead it pauses...when...selecting...a...play, or when doing...after...play...animations. At first you're...not...sure...the game...paused, but then you start...to...see...it...constantly. The game zooms too the scoreboard...and...pauses. It feels like Madden 07...is on...the...verge....of crashing your 360. This is Net Gen time, not...pause...time.

[Abulia]

The on the field play is comfortable to Madden fans and I can leap in and play on All Pro, with the Saints no less, and move the ball effortlessly, having fun doing so. Where Madden bugs me is when I think about the next game and the game after that. They're all the same.

Madden has no soul.

It also has no custom camera angles (arrgh!) and the accelerate playclock -- a necessity to play 15 minute quarters -- *still* doesn't exist. Also, can anyone explain to me why, in 2006 on a 360 with a MU or the hard drive, I can't SAVE MY FRIGGIN GAME IN PROGRESS?!?!?

The nice thing about Madden 06 was that it was so bad you put it down immediately. Madden 07 is "good enough" that you won't recoil in horror the first time you play it, but after a few games you start to get the feeling that you've done all this before. Every game is repetitive and a replay of the game before. You're doing it all again. The lack of any overlays or announcing just makes Madden 07 feel like a hollow play experience.

I just want a football game with soul. Is that so hard?

[AJ Muni]

SO does any one want to setup a league?? That idea sounds real cool...

[Smallville]

I got Madden 07 for the Nintendo DS today and barely got through half of a game (but it could be that I'm tired from work).

The DS version is not quite like a regular football game.

To start, it won't have a ton of cool features like the Superstar mode or any play-by-play and the graphics are so-so.

However, for me, it's a new way to play football. I love drawing hot routes with the stylus and truly creating my own plays. I still control the offense via the control pad and control buttons, but on defense I just choose a play and let the game go.

Calling audibles is also more interesting as I can supposedly do it via voice command (but I haven't tested it yet).

But it fills my football fix as I'm not getting the XBox version. I'm done with XBox and not buying any more games unless it's DS or when the Wii comes out.

[jelloshotsrule]

i've got the game for 360, and i'll chime in and say that abulia is pretty accurate. i've played superstar mode (through one preseason game) and one game of franchise.

first off. you can't play the game with 2 users on the same team. this is totally absurd. my friend and i used to spoch on madden for hours at a time, and now we can't play together. so stupid and seemingly easy to avoid. but when you have a monopoly on the nfl gaming market...

second. no madden? fine, i don't care. but the announcer does sound bad. ultimately though, the audio doesn't matter a ton to me.


a few pointers/corrections about abulia's comments.

you CAN change the camera slightly in superstar mode. you can press R to pull back, and if you hold it as the ball is snapped, the camera will remain back. for one play. annoying, but it's an option. you can also press b (and maybe other buttons) to slightly shift the view. i should note that i have a strong safety going, and so that's what i'm basing it on.

speaking of positions... you don't have to exit the superstar mode to change the parents. i believe there's a button to just select new parents right there in the same screen... not sure which it is and can't test for it here at work. damn, i wish. ;)


overall, i expect the game to entertain me and keep me going through preseason of the NFL... it's not a huge step forward, for sure, but it will be fun enough to play for a while. then next year i'll blow another 60 bucks on 08 and criticize the lack of innovation again. hah.

[Abulia]

speaking of positions... you don't have to exit the superstar mode to change the parents. i believe there's a button to just select new parents right there in the same screen... not sure which it is and can't test for it here at work. damn, i wish. ;)
Yes, you can change the parents but you have no idea what position you'll be until you accept and go to the next screen. That's my point: If I want to play a CB it's a random crap-shoot to get a CB! You have to navigate out of Superstar mode and re-enter to start the process over.

I'll try the camera adjustments. I knew about the right trigger but I'm not sure if I held it down during during the snap.

[jelloshotsrule]

Yes, you can change the parents but you have no idea what position you'll be until you accept and go to the next screen. That's my point: If I want to play a CB it's a random crap-shoot to get a CB! You have to navigate out of Superstar mode and re-enter to start the process over.


i can't confirm for sure, but i don't remember starting over again... it says the position at the top right i think and you can just click change parents, and look up there again... ?

[AJ Muni]

Real simple:

in the top right corner of screen -> position [ HB, TE etc]

on the right middle of the screen -> parent info

on the bottom left corner of screen
Press X to accept player
Press A to shuffle parents (and get new postion/player)

I have never had to back to a previous screen, you just push to button to shuffle.

Back to my other post...Any1 want to start a league?

[saunders45]

Jelloshotsrule is right. Of course, that still doesn't take away from the stupidity of it. It took me almost 20 tries to get a WR, and almost 50 to get a MLB. The stupid part about the drills is, well, they're stupid. As a wide receiver, the corner is on you like glue, and even when you call for the ball, the QB randomly chucks it to a spot down the field, not in the route your going either. As a middle linebacker, holy jesus, it's almost impossible. I swear i got blown apart by the fullback or got caught up woth the outside LB's every time. I'm no football newb, but it's kind of retarded. Franchise and online, I can torch teams, but I'm not a fan of Superstar yet, it's too much pointless work before I can actually have fun.

I pretty much agree regarding a soul-less game. No Madden voice (why is it called Madden then?), no online league, franchise is anemic, it..pauses..too...much...

[Abulia]

Real simple:

in the top right corner of screen -> position [ HB, TE etc]
LOL! Awesome! Right in front of me the entire time? :D


Back to my other post...Any1 want to start a league?
I doubt we have enough users here -- four so far? -- but I'd at least be willing to play someone online for fun. No cheese though. I hate cheese. :)

[eva01]

this will be the first year i will not be buying madden since 1991 i believe

The franchise has crashed since 01 in my opinion. And i played 04-06 for a combined week.

[grizzlybrice]

If any of you Madden 07 for the DS owners out there care to post your review, that'd be great. Is there a franchise mode? I was looking into it, but I can't find ANY reviews or that much online about the game. I'm guessing it was very shadowed by the Xbox360 and PS2 releases.
I saw some stuff on IGN, but no review yet.

Thanks.
B

[jelloshotsrule]

i'm down for a league, but i thought 360 didn't have leagues?

[bigben334]

i just bought xbox 360 just for madden 07 and i was disappointed....the gameplay on xbox and ps2 is sooooooooooo much better...the graphics is obviously better on the 360 but who cares i'd rather have a game thats actually a football game...it just seems like the xbox 360 version is too buggy and there arent enough player animations and the game is always pausing between plays to load or watever....and alot of times the players just run into eachother and just fall down and thats how the play ends...embarrassing for next gen...i came up with my own theory that madden 07 will be better on ps3 because it will be on a blu-ray disc which holds alot more storage than a dvd therefore the ps3 version will be a more complex, smoothed out football experience gameplay wise because ea sports will be able to store more info onto the disc....does my theory make sense and could it be true??

[MacRumorUser]

does my theory make sense and could it be true??

No your talking nonsense - sorry. :rolleyes: how naive can some people be?

PS3 Madden will be EXACTLY the same as the 360 version. You have issues with the latest version - take it up with EA.

The last thing this forum needs is more uneducated statements like this

-madden 07 will be better on ps3 because it will be on a blu-ray disc which holds alot more storage than a dvd therefore the ps3 version will be a more complex, smoothed out football experience gameplay wise

:(

[chairguru22]

ive had madden 07 for ps2 for a few days now and i love it. i was bouncing around all the modes for a bit before finally getting into my bears franchise.

im playing on all-pro (stepping up to all-madden in year 2) and my only move was a trade for Vernon Davis (gave up 3 draft picks, he's nasty good). and in case you're wondering, benson won the position battle but jones is my 3rd down back and receiving back on passing plays.

in 6 games, im 6-0 and avg 40 points/game and ive given up 17 points. total. 2.8 avg. either the game is too easy, the bears D is too good, or the NFC north sucks.

i also find that i dont use lead blocking control that much, just not used to it i guess. running is much improved though and the animations are much smoother and colision detection is fixed so you dont fall down whenever you touch someone. the passing game is also improved and the receivers dont slow down to catch a ball anymore. returning is also fixed, you can actually return kicks now. in all of madden 06 i never had a kickoff return and in 07 i already have one (or maybe its devin hester's 97 speed...). i also have had more plays of 50 yds or more already than in 06 combined.

well i could talk about madden all day but ill just get some sleep and play more tomorrow.

EDIT: i will get a 360 version soon and let you guys know about whether or not ill be online. i also will say that the next-gen version is not up to par with the current gen because its a completely different game. different engine, re-built from the ground up. so its like expecting 5 years of refinement in 2 years... not gonna happen.

[AJ Muni]

.. (or maybe its devin hester's 97 speed...).

That guy was so awesome to see in real life..Ohh god the memories he left us here with at the U ...:)

[Mr. Mister]

Am I the only person who thinks that sports games have to be one of the dumbest things ever to be invented upon god's green circuits?

[AJ Muni]

Am I the only person who thinks that sports games have to be one of the dumbest things ever to be invented upon god's green circuits?

Yeap.