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MacBytes
Aug 23, 2006, 01:59 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Will San Disk eat Apple's pie with 8GB nano-like player? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060823145926)
Description:: Twice the flash RAM storage, same $250 price tag. Should Apple worry?

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

jholzner
Aug 23, 2006, 02:08 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Will San Disk eat Apple's pie with 8GB nano-like player? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060823145926)
Description:: Twice the flash RAM storage, same $250 price tag. Should Apple worry?

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Is any one else sick of the stupid fruit references? Take a slice of their pie, eat their apple pie, worm in their Apple. Jeez, it's not cute or creative anymore.

As for the article. I don't think Apple has to worry in the very short term. If they keep the nano the way it is for too much longer they will have problems.

Passante
Aug 23, 2006, 02:25 PM
I find the fruit references..... rotten to the core. :D

emw
Aug 23, 2006, 02:30 PM
I find the fruit references..... rotten to the core. :D
Maybe, but the general public eats them up.

As far as the player goes, the outside looks nice, but I know nothing about the interface. If it's halfway decent, I could see it getting a reasonable following.

Anonymous Freak
Aug 23, 2006, 03:19 PM
It won't eat any of Apple's pie. Why? Because Apple has a de-facto monopoly on digital music players.

Before the introduction of the iTunes Music Store, companies had a chance. None of them producing a compelling product. They all waited too long.

The iPod launched the Music Store. If the iPod hadn't been as successful as it was, the iTunes Music Store would have been one among many. But because the iPod was so popular, the iTMS took off.

Now, the two are linked. For example, I have 753 items in my 'Purchased' playlist. While more than half were free downloads, and probably 3/4 of those I don't care about, that leaves at least 400 songs that I actually care about. There is no way I'm re-purchasing those 400 songs. That means Apple has me locked in. If I want a portable player, I essentially HAVE to buy an iPod. Yes, the technically savvy can figure out how to get around this; but unless a company creates a player that is significantly more compelling than the equivalent iPod, AND has a way to get around the iPod/iTMS link, they won't take more than a marginal market share.

Even Microsoft, with all of their marketing muscle, will be unlikely to take a major part of the market away from Apple. The ONLY chance MS has is if they release a product that is at least equivalent in functionality, at half the price for a given capacity, and they go through with the rumored offer to re-buy users' iTunes purchases in their Zune store. Even then, and even if MS markets it perfectly (which history shows won't happen,) I would say that taking 25% of the market would be a miracle achievement.

Passante
Aug 23, 2006, 04:00 PM
99 cents a slice. MMM I love pie! ;)

Silencio
Aug 23, 2006, 04:09 PM
"Will SanDisk eat Apple's pie with 8GB nano-like player?"

Best laugh I've had all day.

baleensavage
Aug 23, 2006, 04:10 PM
I think that journalists in general tend to think that bad puns are somehow witty. Hence the apple pie reference.

As for the article it can be summed up by the last line:
"the success of the nano, and all other iPods, is one part iPod, one part iTunes, and one part iTunes Music Store. It's not just a nice looking gadget that plays songs pretty well."
Until there is a decent competitor to iTMS that doesn't require Windows Media Player, then all the other players are just pretty toys. SanDisk should be seriously asking if Microsoft will be opening up the Zune store when it comes out. If not, all the third party MP3 players will probably go the way of the dodo.

hd78
Aug 23, 2006, 04:11 PM
It's looking nice. if it has good interface and lasting battery, I don't mind to buy it for that price. I am sure there are ways to bring music from my ipod to another player if I want to. BTW, I own and love Apple products, but Apple is not my religion. I buy whatever work best for me. :D

Lancetx
Aug 23, 2006, 04:42 PM
I love how this article's title just assumes Apple won't update the nanos at all prior to the holiday season. I'll be shocked if we don't see capacities double across the entire nano line (while the prices remain the same) by October. And as many have said, without iTunes compatibility, SanDisk certainly won't be eating any of Apple's pie. Wow, that's such a bad pun. :rolleyes:

DUCKofD3ATH
Aug 23, 2006, 05:11 PM
Is any one else sick of the stupid fruit references? Take a slice of their pie, eat their apple pie, worm in their Apple. Jeez, it's not cute or creative anymore.


I agree, why can't they come up with something fresh?

How about:

"San Disk's New Music Player: iPod Killer?"

Now isn't that tasty?

P.S. Did you know that if you Google "iPod killer" you'll get over 2 million hits?!

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 05:56 PM
And "eat Apple's pie" sounds sexual to boot.

kenaustus
Aug 23, 2006, 06:13 PM
The test will be the holiday season - Apple already moved a lot of product in the back-to-school buying season. Probably cleared out a lot of inventory getting ready for the next release - just like last year.

The opportunity for an "iPod Killer" to shoot anything buy blanks is going to depend on what Apple releases in time for the holidays. I have no doubts it will be at the usual high standard of design and that there will be backorders all over the place for the Christmas shoppers to moan over. It's probably going to be another year where you need to order early if you are going to give one for Christmas.

APPLENEWBIE
Aug 23, 2006, 07:00 PM
Think about it. Some really slick looking, probably windows compatible, MP3 player is going to be discovered by kids. Kids make this market, i think. Kids are not bright. They follow the pack. If the pack says sandisc, sandisc it is. Most kids don't care about what system they use, as long as it is trendy. And there are some good options out there. Other music services, not MWP, like rhapsody, etc have some nice features. Ipod is not a guaranteed lock... Althought it is still the cat's meow!

bousozoku
Aug 23, 2006, 07:26 PM
Think about it. Some really slick looking, probably windows compatible, MP3 player is going to be discovered by kids. Kids make this market, i think. Kids are not bright. They follow the pack. If the pack says sandisc, sandisc it is. Most kids don't care about what system they use, as long as it is trendy. And there are some good options out there. Other music services, not MWP, like rhapsody, etc have some nice features. Ipod is not a guaranteed lock... Althought it is still the cat's meow!

I don't think SanDisk will sell a lot of them, regardless of how many followers there are. The lines seem to be divided by the people who think that iTunes is horrible software because it doesn't allow you to drag and drop files into the set up that they want and the people who want it all to be automagically handled for them.

The people who love drag and drop will buy the SanDisk product and others like it. The rest of the people who love convenience will continue to buy iPods.

balamw
Aug 23, 2006, 07:31 PM
The people who love drag and drop will buy the SanDisk product and others like it. The rest of the people who love convenience will continue to buy iPods.
I agree. The drag and drop/total control people seem to be the ones who just can't live with an iPod.

I still contend that we won't see an real iPod killer until someone makes a player that will easily import your iTunes library, leaving it in place on the HDD and will play all of the unprotected formats that Apple supports, particularly AAC/M4A since it remains the default. Anyone who already has lots of tracks in M4A will be unlikely to switch to a WMA only player if that means they have to lose quality or spend lots of time converting/re-ripping their music.

B

APPLENEWBIE
Aug 23, 2006, 07:35 PM
I agree. The drag and drop/total control people seem to be the ones who just can't live with an iPod.

I still contend that we won't see an real iPod killer until someone makes a player that will easily import your iTunes library, leaving it in place on the HDD and will play all of the unprotected formats that Apple supports, particularly AAC/M4A since it remains the default. Anyone who already has lots of tracks in M4A will be unlikely to switch to a WMA only player if that means they have to lose quality or spend lots of time converting/re-ripping their music.

B
I understand iPods can only use iTunes... is there any legal or engineering reason that another company can make an iTunes capable player?

bousozoku
Aug 23, 2006, 08:24 PM
I understand iPods can only use iTunes... is there any legal or engineering reason that another company can make an iTunes capable player?

There have been iTunes plug-ins to allow other players to sync through iTunes. I don't think Apple is against it, they're just not willing to give up their second big revenue stream--iPod--by putting every player on equal footing.

I understand their reasoning and I mostly agree with it because there aren't any other music stores that have software (available for Macs) to make the process as simple. I believe that there is only 1 other software package that automates things. WinAmp is helpful from what I understand, too but all of the software is on Windows.

brepublican
Aug 23, 2006, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passante
I find the fruit references..... rotten to the core.
Maybe, but the general public eats them up.

You guys are killing me:D :D :D

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 23, 2006, 09:25 PM
Think about it. Some really slick looking, probably windows compatible, MP3 player is going to be discovered by kids. Kids make this market, i think. Kids are not bright. They follow the pack. If the pack says sandisc, sandisc it is. Most kids don't care about what system they use, as long as it is trendy. And there are some good options out there. Other music services, not MWP, like rhapsody, etc have some nice features. Ipod is not a guaranteed lock... Althought it is still the cat's meow!

To be sure, something unique about the iPod is the fact that it has widespread adoption from a number of age groups. The reason for this is its simplicity-of-use - older generations who aren't as computer savvy still have little problem getting the iPod to work.

The MP3 player market is much more than just kids...

balamw
Aug 23, 2006, 11:13 PM
I understand iPods can only use iTunes... is there any legal or engineering reason that another company can make an iTunes capable player?
iTunes means two separate things.

1) The iTunes music store. This only works with the iPod.
2) The iTunes application. By default this allows you to organize your tracks that are ripped from CD (defaulting to AAC/M4A) or MP3s from other sources or a variety of lossless files (AIFF/WAV/Apple Lossless).

I was referring to the latter. It provides an XML file that is actually pretty simple to work with and can be read by any third party application. Supporting the iTunes XML file will allow for the files, ratings, playcounts, etc.. to be brought into the "iPod killer".

The M4A file codec and file format is actually part of the MPEG-4 specification and is not proprietary to Apple, unlike people would have you believe.

B

Proud Liberal
Aug 24, 2006, 07:40 AM
I think everyone is forgetting one important fact: the after-market accessories. Companies are making accessories, for all intents & purposes, exclusively for iPods. To me (and I would guess many others), that's a HUGE factor in deciding between an iPod and _______ (insert other MP3 player name here). Availability of accessories was one of the biggest reasons I switched from a Creative Zen to an iPod. It wasn't iTunes or iTMS.

jholzner
Aug 24, 2006, 08:24 AM
I love how this article's title just assumes Apple won't update the nanos at all prior to the holiday season. I'll be shocked if we don't see capacities double across the entire nano line (while the prices remain the same) by October. And as many have said, without iTunes compatibility, SanDisk certainly won't be eating any of Apple's pie. Wow, that's such a bad pun. :rolleyes:

I'm guessing (hoping) that Apple will increase the nano to 5 and 10 for the same price. If sandisk can sell their new player at the price they are, Apple should be able to easily beat that considering the prices they are able to get on flash memory.

Proud Liberal
Aug 24, 2006, 09:03 AM
I'm guessing (hoping) that Apple will increase the nano to 5 and 10 for the same price. If sandisk can sell their new player at the price they are, Apple should be able to easily beat that considering the prices they are able to get on flash memory.

That is absolutely stupid. Clearly you fail to realize that SanDisk is able to sell their player at such a low price because THEY ARE THE FLASH MEMORY PRODUCER! They've been able to eliminate a huge cost in the production process, namely the cost to buy flash memory. How in the name of gawd do you think Apple is going to be able to beat SanDisk's price given that fact?

SPUY767
Aug 24, 2006, 09:21 AM
I think everyone is forgetting one important fact: the after-market accessories. Companies are making accessories, for all intents & purposes, exclusively for iPods. To me (and I would guess many others), that's a HUGE factor in deciding between an iPod and _______ (insert other MP3 player name here). Availability of accessories was one of the biggest reasons I switched from a Creative Zen to an iPod. It wasn't iTunes or iTMS.

This is not the time or the palce, but your comment regarding accesories made me think of this ad I saw for the "oPod". Apparently it's a dildo that plugs into your iPod, and vibrates to the music using the iPod's battery for power.

bousozoku
Aug 24, 2006, 09:24 AM
That is absolutely stupid. Clearly you fail to realize that SanDisk is able to sell their player at such a low price because THEY ARE THE FLASH MEMORY PRODUCER! They've been able to eliminate a huge cost in the production process, namely the cost to buy flash memory. How in the name of gawd do you think Apple is going to be able to beat SanDisk's price given that fact?

Apple have good deals with both Toshiba and Samsung, plus the nano has much more profit built into it than SanDisk's player does. If Apple want, they can squeeze a more aggressive product into the market at the same price.

Proud Liberal
Aug 24, 2006, 09:55 AM
Apple have good deals with both Toshiba and Samsung, plus the nano has much more profit built into it than SanDisk's player does. If Apple want, they can squeeze a more aggressive product into the market at the same price.

How do you know any of this? Where are the facts to back up your claims (i.e. "nano has much more profit built into it than SanDisk's player does")? Seems that's a very presumptuous comment to make if you can't back it up. Do you work for Apple?

SmurfBoxMasta
Aug 24, 2006, 06:09 PM
all our flash memory are belong to apple :)

remember the $150mil (advanced) purch....errr investment deals apple made last year .........

bousozoku
Aug 24, 2006, 06:36 PM
How do you know any of this? Where are the facts to back up your claims (i.e. "nano has much more profit built into it than SanDisk's player does")? Seems that's a very presumptuous comment to make if you can't back it up. Do you work for Apple?

It's no more presumptuous than your comment. Do you work for SanDisk?

I'm sure that the group that co-ordinates the manufacture of the mp3 players has to purchase the flash memory just as Apple do. It could be an internal transfer but it's still a purchase. That's typical accounting. They don't just move them from one side of the building to another and they magically appear for free in electronic devices. If they would do that, they wouldn't be in business very long and SanDisk's operations management seem to be very smart. They can minimise the cost of the flash memory if they don't mark it up, as they do for customers, but the price per unit may still be higher than Apple is paying because Apple is likely buying much bigger quantities and are receiving huge discounts.

If you're of the opinion that Apple isn't over-pricing most of their products to create profit, you should take a look at their publicly-available financial statements. They're not having a bit of trouble making big profit from iPods or computers. Even during Apple's darkest days, they were making big profits per unit but they weren't selling that many units.

kerryliu
Aug 26, 2006, 02:57 AM
Sandisk is just a rubbish