SLI working on Mac Pro

[sasquatch98]

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=612359&tstart=0

[ampd]

This is great news! Hopefully we will be getting the drivers to do this in OSX...

[MovieCutter]

Kick ass. I wonder if this would work with two PC GPUs? Dual x1950's here I come!!!

[ezekielrage_99]

Does the SLI just only work with Windows or does Mac OSX supports this as well?

[Felldownthewell]

Wow, those are some impressive 3dmark result jumps!

[ksz]

Fantastic! I didn't know there were chipset-neutral drivers for SLI!! Wow!

[aiongiant]

i wonder if a quad sli system will work :D

[Lollypop]

Cool! Now all apple has to do is write the drivers.. or have ATI and nvidia write the drivers... 2009 anyone? :D

[cw2k]

Does the SLI just only work with Windows or does Mac OSX supports this as well?

Just Windows, when you boot back into OSX the cards function as 2 separate cards as they would normally do.

The driver works with 7900/7600/7300 cards (does not work with 7950GX2).

Newer drivers have not been modified yet as NVidia has put in integrity checks to prevent this type of mod working.

Source of the driver: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106212

I will do further tests later today.

[cw2k]

.

[Spanky Deluxe]

This is outstanding news!! 2x7300gt cards is a quite reasonable mid range solution performance and cost wise.

An SLI connector isn't required by the latest of nVidia drivers anyway - I found that out by losing my connector in my PC for months. I thought I'd left it at home when I went for Uni. When I was packing up my stuff to come back I found it behind the computer. Doh!

Not having an SLI connector is more of a bottleneck on high end cards but on low end cards it doesn't make much of a difference.

Edit: CW2K, welcome to MacRumors btw! Are you a poster over at xtreme? I used to be but got burnt by destroying two processors with a phase change system so have left the xtreme tweaking to the pros now. Could you run any benchmarks? Lost coast for example? High res?

Edit 2: Also do those drivers support coolbits and can you try overclocking the cards a bit? They appear to be quite well designed 7300s so they could maybe be overclocked a bit. Overclocking 7300s seem to give a great boost in performance: http://www.techspot.com/review/6-geforce_7300gt_sli_performance/

[Mr. Mister]

Very interesting but it's a shame there isn't slotspeed configuration where there are two 16x's and the rest are something really low, the highest you can get two slots to go right now is 8x.

[ksz]

Very interesting but it's a shame there isn't slotspeed configuration where there are two 16x's and the rest are something really low, the highest you can get two slots to go right now is 8x.
In SLI configuration, I believe nVidia's cards only use 8 lanes each.

[godbout]

Kick ass. I wonder if this would work with two PC GPUs? Dual x1950's here I come!!!

I don't know about that because I am not sure that crossfire has chipset independent drivers

Dual 7950GTX here I come!!! ;)

[godbout]

i wonder if a quad sli system will work :D

I don't think that there are enough PCI-e lanes for quad SLi on the macpro chipset... well not 4X8 anyways...

your options are:

Slot 1 Slot 2 Slot 3 Slot 4
Option 1 8-lanes 8-lanes 1-lane 8-lanes
Option 2 8-lanes 8-lanes 4-lanes 4-lanes
Option 3 16-lanes 1-lane 1-lane 8-lanes


(I think)

[godbout]

In SLI configuration, I believe nVidia's cards only use 8 lanes each.

No if you have a Nvidia chipset that supports SLi then you can have 2 16x lanes that will be used for the two graphics cards.

http://www.slizone.com/page/slizone_learn.html

[CyberPrey]

No if you have a Nvidia chipset that supports SLi then you can have 2 16x lanes that will be used for the two graphics cards.

http://www.slizone.com/page/slizone_learn.html


nForce 4 chipset...

My gaming rig has one of those... the mainboard is Asus A8N32-SLIDeluxe nForce4 SLI - Dual 16x PCI-E slots for the vid cards.

[ksz]

No if you have a Nvidia chipset that supports SLi then you can have 2 16x lanes that will be used for the two graphics cards.
It's a little more complicated than that. AnandTech has an explanation of SLI here (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2284). The second paragraph states:

NVIDIA’s first task in assuring that the load distributed to both GPUs would be balanced and symmetrical was to equip their nForce4 SLI chipset with identical width PCI Express graphics slots. By default, PCI Express graphics cards use a x16 slot, which features 16 PCI Express lanes offering 8GB/s of total bandwidth. Instead of outfitting their chipsets with 16 more PCI Express lanes, NVIDIA simply allows the number of lanes to be reconfigurable to either a single x16 slot or two x8 slots, with the use of a little card on the motherboard itself. The physical slots themselves are both x16 slots, but electrically they can be configured to be two x8 slots. This won’t cause any compatibility issues with x16 cards, as they will just use fewer lanes for data transfers, and the real world performance impact is negligible in games, which is what NVIDIA is counting on.
The takeaway message I believe is:


All PCIe graphics cards require x16 *physical* slots. This is simply the specification for any graphics card.
Not all PCIe slots are *electrically* x16. This is limited by the chipset. Most chipsets do not allow two 16-lane electric configuration.
The MacPro has 5 PCIe slots. They are all physically x16 slots, but not electrically. If all 5 slots were electrically x16, the total lanes would have been too many for the chipset to handle.
Because Apple wants to allow multiple graphics cards in order to support multiple monitors, and because all PCIe graphics cards require x16 *physical slots*, all 5 of the MacPro's slots are physically x16.
However, only 1 slot can be set electrically to x16.
This is not limited to Apple's motherboard. Most PC motherboards are also limited to one *electrical* x16 slot.
If you put two graphics cards in the MacPro, one of them will use at most eight electric lanes. The real-world impact of this is negligible as indicated by AnandTech. The difference between 16 electric lanes and 8 isn't anything to worry about.
Finally, nVidia supports the following electric lane configurations for SLI:


x8 and x8 (officially)
x16 and x2 (unofficially)

[CyberPrey]

#8, That is incorrect. Check both Asus and nvidia's websites.

Nvidia fully supports a 16x/16x SLI configuration on the NForce 4 SLI Chipset.

I haven't read the spec's fully in a while, but in order to use a 16x/16x SLi setup, both the northbridge AND southbridge dedicate lanes to each card... 16x physically AND electrically...

[ksz]

^^^ You're right about the A8N32-SLI motherboard and the nForce4. AnandTech's article is dated November 2004 at which time x16/x16 was not supported. What is interesting, though, is that the MacPro supports x8/x8, which has only a "negligible" hit on performance.

[CyberPrey]

I'm only right about 1 or 2 times a year :)

While I 'think' i will be happy for quite some time using 1 16x card in the Mac Pro, I have a feeling that there will probably be some sort of change in the Apple computer line that DOES allow for 2 16x graphics cards to be used.

[ksz]

I'm only right about 1 or 2 times a year :)

One third of the year is still left; looks like you may be improving your batting average!

I wasn't expecting SLI to work at all, so the fact that it actually does and that it is supported by these el cheapo 7300GTs is something to get excited about. Do two 7300GTs equal one X1900XT? Or at least come close?

[topgunn]

One third of the year is still left; looks like you may be improving your batting average!

I wasn't expecting SLI to work at all, so the fact that it actually does and that it is supported by these el cheapo 7300GTs is something to get excited about. Do two 7300GTs equal one X1900XT? Or at least come close?
Thats a reasonable question. What does a X1900 or even a 7900GT or GTX (non-SLI) score in 3D Mark '06?

[DougTheImpaler]

Do two 7300GTs equal one X1900XT? Or at least come close?
No, but you get two things instead:

1.) Save $200 over an X1900XT
2.) Shorter shipping delay than the X1900XT

All told, they're probably about as fast as a single 7600GT or 7600GS, which is still a better gaming option than the X1600's in the iMac

[topgunn]

I heard somewhere that the 7300GT was very similar to the 7600 to begin with so I am sure that two 7300's in SLI would obviously surpass it.

Here are a couple of reviews I found with benchmarks of the different cards:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1970&cid=3&pg=4
http://www.pcmoddingmy.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.374.5

Edit: Here's another:
http://www.techspot.com/review/6-geforce_7300gt_sli_performance/page2.html

[DougTheImpaler]

Oh, hey, I missed the GT on the 7300 part when I was looking at the website. I was reading it as the much-slower 7300GS...which usually has a 64-bit memory interface instead of the 128-bit memory.

Still, TechSpot's 7300GT review is scoring way higher in single-card mode than the Apple forum link, so I bet Apple is using slower memory.

[ksz]

Is the "Scalable" Link Interface (SLI) actually scalable to more than 2 GPUs?

If the nVidia 7950 GX2 has 2 GPUs and can be used in SLI mode, it means that 4 GPUs can work together over SLI.

Now, if you put 3 of the el cheapo 7300GTs into the MacPro using the x8/x8/x1/x8 electrical configuration, can the threesome work together or do you need to add GPUs in pairs (always an even number of GPUs)?

Hmm, I suspect nVidia does not support x8/x8/x8 anyway, but doesn't hurt to ask.

[cw2k]

Still, TechSpot's 7300GT review is scoring way higher in single-card mode than the Apple forum link, so I bet Apple is using slower memory.

The apple 7300gt cards have a core clock of 350 and memory clock of 666.

The free version of 3dmark2006 limits you to one resolution (1280x1024) and I don't think it lets you use FSAA etc, my 3dmark score is a about the same as the 7300 card at the same clock speed/resolution on techspots site.

I will check properly on the weekend and have a play with overclocking them.

[ezekielrage_99]

Would 2 nVidia 7300GTs SLI in Windows be faster than 1 Ati X1900?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Would 2 nVidia 7300GTs SLI in Windows be faster than 1 Ati X1900?

Answer is 5 posts back.

No, but you get two things instead:

1.) Save $200 over an X1900XT
2.) Shorter shipping delay than the X1900XT

All told, they're probably about as fast as a single 7600GT or 7600GS, which is still a better gaming option than the X1600's in the iMac

[Spanky Deluxe]

I'm pretty sure that SLI now works with two boards from separate manufactures as long as they are the same chip and same speed etc. So you may be able to pick that second 7300gt for $75. You wouldn't be using it in OS X anyway.

[CyberPrey]

Well, dual 7300's is not really as fast as the 1900.. I would say they are about 60-65% of the speed of the 1900.

but as pointed out previously, they are cheaper and they will run cooler... And cheaper and cooler are good things :)

Athough... im still gonna get the 1900 :)

[CyberPrey]

I'm pretty sure that SLI now works with two boards from separate manufactures as long as they are the same chip and same speed etc. So you may be able to pick that second 7300gt for $75. You wouldn't be using it in OS X anyway.

According to Nvidia/SLiZone, two different nvidia boards can run SLi....

In case of the same chip/memory from different manufactuers there are no problems...

In case of differences in gpu speed/memory speed, the SLi setup will work at the speed of the SLOWEST vid card.

[santa]

Can I link to x1900's together? That is what I would do if this is really an option...I am holding off my MacPro purchase until the SATA drive problem under Windows is fixed. When it is, then I will order my new machine. I will get a second x1900 if I can run games under Windows using SLI.

[Spanky Deluxe]

ATI uses crossfire not SLI so no. Maybe someone will create hacked Crossfire drivers at some point, who knows!

[Mr. Mister]

The fact that people are even considering running bargain-bin graphics cards in SLI is a sure sign that there's something wrong with Apple's GPU selection. There should be more cards to choose from in a broader range of performance categories.

[CyberPrey]

The fact that people are even considering running bargain-bin graphics cards in SLI is a sure sign that there's something wrong with Apple's GPU selection. There should be more cards to choose from in a broader range of performance categories.

I agree with this. For Apple to be successful in the "PC" marketplace, they need to allow a bit of variety on hardware choices in order to gain a foothold with as many different types of consumers.

Getting systems to dual boot with xp is a great first step...

The next step is getting a good selection of video cards in order to allow us, the consumer, to have a large choice.

Then, they need to beat on game programmers to do UB games and forget this windows stuff :)