Looking for widescreen LCD display

[molocono]

Hello all! I'm about to buy a Mac Pro and I need a new display to go with it. I don't want an Apple display, as I find them too expensive. I'm looking for a widescreen LCD display, 20'' - 24''. Could anyone offer some recommendations? I heard Dell and Viewsonic offer some good products. Thanks!

[tristan]

You can get 20" monitors for about $300. Once you get to 23" or 24" you get to about $600. A good place to start would probably be www.dealmac.com and look for deals. You can find silver ones if you look around that match the Mac a little better, like Acer and Samsung, otherwise most is black.

Shopping for LCDs is maddening I have to tell you due to the huge numbers of products, retailers, and deals - I estimate there's about 100,000 possible purchasing combinations, all changing daily.

I ended up with a no-name 19" (non-WS) from MacConnection that will arrive tomorrow or monday that I got a crazy deal on ($110 after rebate). I drooled over the 20 and 24 inch widescreens but since its a secondary home display for a laptop, I couldn't justify spending a lot of $$$ and just grabbed the first deal that looked good. Maybe next year I'll sell it and upgrade again.

[molocono]

Right now I'm looking at the ViewSonic VX2025WM. Any thoughts?

[indigoflowAS]

Right now I'm looking at the ViewSonic VX2025WM. Any thoughts?
I'm eyeballing this one as well :) ...It's likely the one I may go for it...if I don't cough all my $$ up and get the Dell 2407.

[thworple]

Sure its been covered before, but the Dell 20" WS (2005FPW) is a great monitor to buy, if you're looking for a cheaper ACD alterantive. I own one myself, and its been really good to me.

The Good
Uses same flat-panel as the equivilant Apple Display.
Has DVI, VGA, S-Video and Composite in.
Has built-im USB hub.
Height and tilt adjustment is superior to the Apple display.
You can put it in potrait mode - great for editing web pages, and documents.
Its reasonably priced, particularly when Dell is offering them on sale.
3 year warranty as standard.

The Bad
Some have pointed out the backlight isn't as good as the ACD (although I think its the equal!)
No Firewire hub like the ACD.
Its black, so doesn't look quite as cool as the ACD (but then again, whats on the screen is the most important thing!)
Its got DELL written on the bottom! :rolleyes:

There are other alternatives, but I'll leave that others to suggest and review.

[GOTML]

i just ordered this ONE: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1828823

GOOD specs but bad name. but great price. good for my needs. which is pretty much just a widescreen display with DVI and VGA for video switching between my mac mini and 360. Hope it helps.

-Wes

[D-rock]

Hi molocono,

The main question is, What are you mainly going to be using your computer for? Different monitor types are good for different tasks. (i.e. some monitors are better for gaming, some are better for graphics work, etc.)

[Veritas&Equitas]

The main question is, What are you mainly going to be using your computer for? Different monitor types are good for different tasks. (i.e. some monitors are better for gaming, some are better for graphics work, etc.)
There really isn't much division. If you need a good performance LCD with the best price/performance ratio, 98 times out of 100 the Dells are the best to go with. I do graphics work and tons of gaming on my Dell 2405, after I upgraded from the 2005, they both are amazing LCDs for the price.

Note: I've also used the 20'' ACD and 23" ACD at work, and in my humble opinion, the Dells beat them hands down in every category, besides aesthetics :)

[FFTT]

I'm still very happy with my Dell 2405 FPW.

I'd go for Apple, Dell or Samsung.

[Abstract]

Dells are so poorly calibrated that if you're doing photo or graphics work, it may be better to go with ViewSonic or Samsung or something before you go with Dell.

Generally, the Dells are fantastic though.

[D-rock]

If you need a good performance LCD with the best price/performance ratio, 98 times out of 100 the Dells are the best to go with. I do graphics work and tons of gaming on my Dell 2405, after I upgraded from the 2005, they both are amazing LCDs for the price.

I agree with you here, but...

There really isn't much division.

and

Note: I've also used the 20'' ACD and 23" ACD at work, and in my humble opinion, the Dells beat them hands down in every category, besides aesthetics :)

Sorry, but I definitely have to disagree with you on that. There are major differences between S-PVA and S-IPS monitors. I also do "graphics work" and the Dell 2405 (an S-PVA screen) is most definitely not equal to an S-IPS screen as far as color accuracy and viewing angle go. Every artist in our studio uses a 2405, and everyone I've talked to about it thinks they're crummy for serious graphics work.

I will give you that the 2405 is a great general-purpose monitor. They are bright, have good contrast, and the price is right. And that's cool for most people. But if you need to do serious graphics/photo/video work, you'd be better off to look for an S-IPS screen. Most likely, the OP needs a good general purpose monitor, and in which case an S-PVA screen would be great. But I figured I'd ask just in case.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but you are very much mistaken if you think there are no differences between monitor types.

Cheers :)

[RedTomato]

There are major differences between S-PVA and S-IPS monitors. I also do "graphics work" and the Dell 2405 (an S-PVA screen) is most definitely not equal to an S-IPS screen as far as color accuracy and viewing angle go.
...

But if you need to do serious graphics/photo/video work, you'd be better off to look for an S-IPS screen.


I'm very interested in what you're saying, as I'm considering buying a monitor (probably a 2005 FPW) for arthouse video work (to back up my 15' powerbook G4), but you've lost / confused me a bit.

Which S-IPS monitors do you reccomend? (20/24 inch, not too expensive please!)

I'll go check them out / read up on the tech.

Thanks

[Abstract]

I always thought it was just a matter of screen colour calibration, say with a GretagMacBeth or something of the sort.

[Passante]

Right now I'm looking at the ViewSonic VX2025WM. Any thoughts?

As am I.

Here is a review from Tom's Hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/27/xxl_displays/page11.html

I do a lot of photo editing and am concerned that the VX2025 WM is a 6 bit display that dithers to show 8 bit color.

The VP930, while a 19 inch monitor looks like a nice fit for photo editing and has a great review

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/17/viewsonic_vp930_lcd_monitor/

Heres some info on what the tests and specs mean
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/10/the_secret_sauces_of_thg/

Molocono, how do you plan to use your monitor?

[RedTomato]

This is a brief explaination of the different technologies, with a paragraph on S-IPS (near the bottom) but doesn't mention S-PVA.

The Apple Cinema monitor is held up as a shining example of a S-IPS monitor.

(Doesn't that mean the Dell 2005 / 2405 / xx07 are also S-IPS monitors?)

D-rock, could you recommend a S-IPS monitor you like?

Thanks

[indigoflowAS]

Can little ol' naive me get a breakdown of what S-PVA and S-IPS are?

These two categories (according to the posts) seem to be exclusively either hardcore graphics OR good gaming...any of them both? Am I right to imagine that great for graphics will do great for everything?:)

[D-rock]

I always thought it was just a matter of screen colour calibration, say with a GretagMacBeth or something of the sort.

Color calibration will get you a long way, but there are some fundamental physical differences between S-PVA and S-IPS architectures that will keep them from being identical. The two main ones are viewing angle and color response... S-PVA's usually have better brightness and contrast, but S-IPS screens usually have better color accuracy.

Can little ol' naive me get a breakdown of what S-PVA and S-IPS are?

These two categories (according to the posts) seem to be exclusively either hardcore graphics OR good gaming...any of them both? Am I right to imagine that great for graphics will do great for everything?:)

Basically, S-IPS and S-PVA are different image production methods used in LCD screen. S-PVA usually have higher brightness and contrast ratios, while S-IPS usually have wider viewing angles and more accurate color reproduction. (A very thorough explanation can be found here. (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-guide.html) It's probably more than you'll ever want to know :p )

The Apple Cinema monitor is held up as a shining example of a S-IPS monitor.

(Doesn't that mean the Dell 2005 / 2405 / xx07 are also S-IPS monitors?)

D-rock, could you recommend a S-IPS monitor you like?

Thanks

Yep, the cinema displays are usually regarded among professionals as having very accurate color reproduction. They seem to be plagued with manufacturing issues, though. But they are definitely good monitors! People also seem to like the Philips 230WP7NS, Viewsonic VP231WB, HP F2304, and Sony SDM-P234-B. But since people's preferences differ, I'd say the best thing to do would be to check out several monitors side-by-side and see which you prefer. This (http://aryarya.net/wassyoi/lcdmemo.html) site will tell you which screen type any given monitor is using.

The Dell 2005 and 1st generation 2007's (as well as the 30 incher) use S-IPS. Both 24" models and the Rev. B 2007 use S-PVA, I would guess for cost reasons.

I mentioned viewing angle... don't be tricked by the "viewing angle" listed by the manufacturer. All that says is how long the image stays viewable, and does not take into consideration the image quality. If they did, the Dell 2405 (and probably any other S-PVA monitor) would have to list something like 10 degrees! ;) As you move your head off-center on a PVA screen, there is a noticeable gamma shift in the darks of the image. It's very subtle, but if you're doing serious graphics work you will notice it and it is very annoying! This is a proven physical property of the way S-PVA screen work.

Ok, there's probably some stuff I left out but I need to go get ready for work. (yay west coast time! :D )

[milozauckerman]

The Dells I've seen have been uniformly awful for color reproduction and unnaturally bright even on the lowest setting.

[PD4Ever]

I think there was a similar post last week and I followed somebody's advice and bought a Samsung 205BW. It's a 20" Widescreen. Newegg has them for a decent price ~$300 and I love it. Looks amazing with my pc on dvi and I bought a vga switch and have my 12" iBook and my Xbox 360 hooked up to it. It is black but I think there is a silver version available. I looked at the Viewsonic but I read somewhere it doesnt scale well with other resolutions (important for me becuase of the 360, but might not be important for you). I couldnt find many reviews on the 205BW, but I am glad that I went ahead and took the plunge on it. Another good feature is HDCP support, making it a little more future proof than the Dell and Viewsonic. Also I have heard good things about the Benq 20.1" widescreen so you might want to check that out (also ~$300).

[Clydefrog]

I am very happy with my Dell 2005FPW, but i wish i had a ACD for the looks.

[thedonga]

the newer dells are far too bright for real graphic work....you cannot adjust the backlight enough without losing color detail.
do not buy one and expect to do true graphic work on it....great for games and DVDs but that's it.

PVA used in high end monitors can be as good/better than IPS for graphics work. It all depends on what else is going on in the monitor. Dells just crank the contrast and backlighting in the new models and the is no way to correct them.

ps clydefrog your 2005FPW is a great monitor...IPS and great backlight. Dell did that one right.

[indigoflowAS]

Thanks for the briefing on IPS and PVA

It seems as though IPS monitors run a little more than their PVA counterparts...does this presumption hold water? I'd like to keep it in the price range of the 24" Dell (~$700). I'm going for a 20"/24" graphics-first, games-second monitor.

Point me in the right direction if you can.:) Much thanks.

[molocono]

Ok so I just bought my new Mac Pro, so now comes the monitor.
I'm deciding between the ViewSonic VX2025WM and Dell 2007WFP. I do a lot of video editing and some graphics work, but I'm mostly concerned about the video end. I don't work with a broadcast monitor at home, so I rely on my display a lot. What do you guys recommend?

[D-rock]

Ok so I just bought my new Mac Pro, so now comes the monitor.
I'm deciding between the ViewSonic VX2025WM and Dell 2007WFP. I do a lot of video editing and some graphics work, but I'm mostly concerned about the video end. I don't work with a broadcast monitor at home, so I rely on my display a lot. What do you guys recommend?

Well, ideally, neither. I'm serious... if you are doing video editing and graphics work, then you really need to consider getting an IPS screen. The ViewSonic is an MVA screen and the Dell is a PVA screen... both horrible if you need image accuracy. Your viewing angle will suffer greatly from choosing either of those two monitor technologies.

However... the Dell 2005 was an IPS screen if you can find one of those around. Also... the REV. A 2007 used an IPS screen... but I have no way of telling a REV A from a REV B (besides serial numbers), so it's a risk.

EDIT- here (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Master_Monitors_List) is a link giving a brief overview of many popular monitors and their screen types.

Also, congrats on getting a new Mac Pro! ;)

[molocono]

However... the Dell 2005 was an IPS screen if you can find one of those around. Also... the REV. A 2007 used an IPS screen... but I have no way of telling a REV A from a REV B (besides serial numbers), so it's a risk.

EDIT- here (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Master_Monitors_List) is a link giving a brief overview of many popular monitors and their screen types.

Also, congrats on getting a new Mac Pro! ;)

Thanks!

Well I'm not gonna use the MP until I get a new display.
So, according to that list the 2007 uses an IPS screen? What other displays could you recommend?
I know the they did a revision to the 2007. I plan on going to a Dell store to look at them. How can I tell if it's a Rev. B version?

[D-rock]

Thanks!

Well I'm not gonna use the MP until I get a new display.
So, according to that list the 2007 uses an IPS screen? What other displays could you recommend?
I know the they did a revision to the 2007. I plan on going to a Dell store to look at them. How can I tell if it's a Rev. B version?

Hi molocono,

I've come across several conflicting reports regarding the 2007 (such as this review (http://www.cryo-laboratory.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28604&postcount=3), so I'm naturally leery of it, haha :cool:

Here's the way to tell a PVA screen from an IPS screen-

Load up an image with a lot of bright/dark variation. (This (http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/59690548.1920Shadow.jpg) one is used frequently in LCD reviews.) Move your head from one side of screen to the other. If you are looking at a PVA screen, as your viewing angle relative to the image increases you will begin to notice a gamma boost in the dark areas of the image. You don't have to move more than a couple degrees before this phenomenon becomes noticeable. At extreme angles (50 degrees, for example) the image on a PVA screen will become very washed out in the dark areas. An IPS screen, on the other hand, will retain its black levels. On very extreme angles, an IPS screen will begin to take on purple hues in the black parts of the screen.

The 2005, as mentioned, was a good monitor. I've read several reviews complaining of color banding in the 2007, so if you can check it out in person that'd be ideal.

Best of luck! :)

[Passante]

I just purchased a Viewsonic VX2025wm. $299 plus tax :( after rebate. Very pleased with the display. Backlight appears even. Have not notice any backlight bleed. Played Halo and was pleased with the image quality. Need to play a DVD on it. Only used it for a few hours so far so these opinions are subject to change.

[suneohair]

Stay away from the Dell 2007 and 2407 if you are doing graphic work.

I picked up a 2407, hoping they had fixed the gradient banding issue. They didnt. There is supposedly new revisions out there where they have fixed it. I may try again.

The gradient banding is only visible with DVI. VGA is fine.

Also, people rave about all the inputs. Well guess what, they arent worth a damn thing. The component input looks like *****. People with a 360 are forced to use VGA to get decent quality. That is ridiculous.

There is extensive information about these problems all over the net, including Dell Forums. Check it out.

[orangezorki]

I'm also looking for a monitor, and am gravitating towards Eizo for either the 21" or 24" widescreens - much more expensive, but they seem to be streets ahead and bulletproof when compared with either Apple or Dell.

For anyone out there who already has one, can I ask how easy it is to get one replaced if there is a dead/permanently stuck pixel, and if things like lag and ghosting are perceptible in games?

Thanks.