iMac Conroe

[thechefxxxv]

Does anyone think that the iMac will be based off of Intel's Core 2 Duo desktop processor?:confused: I think the Mac Mini will stay using the laptop processors, but the imac should move to Conroe, instead of Merom:p . Any thoughts on this?

[Mac Rules]

Dude, this has been posted about too many times to mention! Search is your friend;)

But, yes the iMac will probably get Conroe processors

Cheers

[milozauckerman]

But, yes the iMac will probably get Conroe processors
I would downgrade that to 'maybe get.'

Conroe means a complete re-design after the CD. You're going to need a lot more cooling, and a complete change in components (HD aside, the iMac's current guts are laptop parts). After the well-received near-silent, mostly problem-less iMac Core Duo, will Apple go back to a high-heat model with more fan noise and potential issues? I'm not sure that they will.

[iGary]

Nope, iMac gets Merom.

[ghall]

I think Intel Core 2 Duo (sorry, I get all the code names mixed up :confused: ) belongs in the Mac Pro, not the iMac. The iMac is a consumer level desktop, and doesn't need quad processors, that whould just be overkill. Plus, why upgrade the processors so soon? I can see maybe a speed bump to the iMac, but not a new processor. What the iMac needs is a fresh design.

[Fredou51]

I think Intel Core 2 Duo (sorry, I get all the code names mixed up :confused: ) belongs in the Mac Pro, not the iMac. The iMac is a consumer level desktop, and doesn't need quad processors, that whould just be overkill. Plus, why upgrade the processors so soon? I can see maybe a speed bump to the iMac, but not a new processor. What the iMac needs is a fresh design.

Core 2 Duo is a Dual Core, not a quad core. They achieve quad core using two Xeon 5100 (Woodcrest) in the Mac Pro now (Woodcrest is Multi Processor capable). The iMac will definitely go Core 2 Duo. The question is whether Apple will use Core 2 Duo Mobile (Merom) or Core 2 Duo Desktop (Conroe). I think they will use the more powerful and cheaper Conroe even if they need to redesign.

[Chone]

Core 2 Duo is a Dual Core, not a quad core. They achieve quad core using two Xeon 5100 (Woodcrest) in the Mac Pro now (Woodcrest is Multi Processor capable). The iMac will definitely go Core 2 Duo. The question is whether Apple will use Core 2 Duo Mobile (Merom) or Core 2 Duo Desktop (Conroe). I think they will use the more powerful and cheaper Conroe even if they need to redesign.

I'm thinking they'll definitely use Conroe in the iMac and leave Merom for the portables, the desktop needs to have a desktop chip!!! :mad: well Merom and Conroe are still the exact same Core 2 Duo but the extra FSB on Conroe will help the iMac pull ahead significantly.

[dmw007]

Nope, iMac gets Merom.


I agree with iGary, I expect the iMac to to get Merom based Core 2 Duos. :)

[ezekielrage_99]

Merom sounds like the most logical idea

[Chone]

Actually its not that logical, if they could put a friggin G5 in there I'm quite sure Conroe will fit in there perfectly, Conroe is not that much hotter than Yonah, especially considering the iMac is a desktop not a laptop.

It would be stupid to put merom in the iMac and most likely they'll put Conroe, people just make assumptions, there is no need to completely redesign ANYTHING to stick a friggin Conroe in there, it won't make it hot, noisy or problem-prone either.

Sorry I'm a little upset, it would be a dumb decision to pluck merom on the iMac, Conroe is the logical choice, the iMac is a desktop, it should have a desktop processor like it always has, the G5 had the worse performance per watt ratio in the world i think and the iMac had it and yet people still loved their iMac G5s. For god's sake people don't even know the difference between Conroe and Merom and go around saying the first thing that pops into their heads.

[dmw007]

the G5 had the worse performance per watt ratio in the world i think and the iMac had it and yet people still loved their iMac G5s.

Not so sure that is the case Chone, I am pretty sure the Pentium 4's performance per watt ratio was/is worse than the PowerPC G5. :)

[freakonguitar]

considering that they had g5's in imacs which gotta run somewhere as hot as a conroe.....why would they need a complete redesign? just do wahtever they did to keep the G5's from roasting themselves to death :P

[Chone]

considering that they had g5's in imacs which gotta run somewhere as hot as a conroe.....why would they need a complete redesign? just do wahtever they did to keep the G5's from roasting themselves to death :P

Conroe is MUCH MUCH MUCH more cooler than G5..., its barely much hotter than Yonah...

[tipdrill407]

It would be stupid to put merom in the iMac and most likely they'll put Conroe, people just make assumptions, there is no need to completely redesign ANYTHING to stick a friggin Conroe in there, it won't make it hot, noisy or problem-prone either.

I'm not going to make any assumptions here but they cannot simply drop a conroe into an iMac. The conroe chip is not pin compatible or is not compatible with the motherboard the iMac uses, so they cannot just stick a conroe in there.

[DavidLeblond]

Someone needs to do a Merom, Conroe in the iMac poll.

Personally, I expect a Merom. Although I'm HOPING for a Conroe, seeing as I will be purchasing an iMac after they update.

[ridergroov]

Ahh..the next gen iMac thread I have been looking for. Where the hell are these new iMacs? They have to be getting one of the core 2 duos, but what is taking so damn long? I'm relatively new to Macs so I can't really complain about things that I don't know much about but this seems like a ridiculously long time for them to wait to update. Even DELL has changed over to freaking core 2s. Come on. I bought a mini about this time last year and it was great and I love Mac now and I want to upgrade but I'm not about to buy a core duo knowing they will probably update soon...but when? Has anyone heard anything about when ANY update would happen? Gotta be soon...

[suneohair]

Ahh..the next gen iMac thread I have been looking for. Where the hell are these new iMacs? They have to be getting one of the core 2 duos, but what is taking so damn long? I'm relatively new to Macs so I can't really complain about things that I don't know much about but this seems like a ridiculously long time for them to wait to update. Even DELL has changed over to freaking core 2s. Come on. I bought a mini about this time last year and it was great and I love Mac now and I want to upgrade but I'm not about to buy a core duo knowing they will probably update soon...but when? Has anyone heard anything about when ANY update would happen? Gotta be soon...

Most people dont care about the processor or even know that they dont have the newest. So them waiting isnt hurting sales.

It will happen when it happens. Maybe Apple is planning something big which is why they are waiting. Maybe they have no intention of switching to them when santa rosa is around the corner.

No need to be antsy for something you cant control.

[ridergroov]

Yeah you are right to a degree. I'm just going to be pissed if I buy one now and a month later there is a conroe iMac. I won't be happy.

[Zwhaler]

I agree with iGary, I expect the iMac to to get Merom based Core 2 Duos. :)

Yeah, I wished it got conroe, but it doesn't really need it. When people hear "conroe" they think oh its so much better than the merom, which is kinda true, but consumers don't need that kind of power. and if you do, go pro :)

[viccles]

Yeah, I wished it got conroe, but it doesn't really need it. When people hear "conroe" they think oh its so much better than the merom, which is kinda true, but consumers don't need that kind of power. and if you do, go pro :)

I personally would say 95% of consumers wouldnt know anything about chips at all. No one I know would have a clue. The majority of this forum are cluey and in the know :)

[exabytes18]

I believe that the iMac will get a Conroe. Leaving it with a Merom creates a huge hole in their product line-up. I believe I might fall into that hole, too, ouch, I think I broke my leg :mad:. Let the Mini get the Merom and give the iMac what it deserves, the Conroe.

[viccles]

From what I gather merom is meant more for portable computers so wouldn't it be more likely the Imacs would get a desktop chip?

[exabytes18]

From what I gather merom is meant more for portable computers so wouldn't it be more likely the Imacs would get a desktop chip?

Exactly.

Merom : G4 :: Conroe : G5

EDIT: Just to throw this out there... How about a [complete] redesign of the iMac soon.

[~Shard~]

Exactly.

Merom : G4 :: Conroe : G5

Not quite - the G4 and G5 were completely different chip architectures. The Merom and Conroe are both based on the same Core 2 Duo chipset, it's just that Merom is the mobile version and Conroe is the desktop version. But I know what you're saying. Keep in mind though that if IBM could have done what they said they were going to do (or at least without taking so long in getting the 970FX out!), we would have had G5s in laptops as well.

[exabytes18]

But I know what you're saying.

For all practical purposes.

I wasn't trying to be technical. :o

[ehurtley]

Exactly.

Merom : G4 :: Conroe : G5

No, more like: (And properly compared,)

Merom : Conroe :: G5 with slower bus in the iMac G5 : G5 with faster bus in the higher-end Power Mac G5.

Or:

Yonah : G4 :: Conroe/Merom/Woodcrest : G5 (Yonah is the 'Core Duo' and 'Core Solo' in all the current Macs except the Mac Pro)

Merom and Conroe are the exact same chip. Both have the exact same core architecture, both are available in 2 MB and 4 MB L2 cache versions. The ONLY differences are:

Merom comes in a Socket-479 package, Conroe comes in an LGA-775 package.
Merom has a 667 MHz front side bus, Conroe has a 1066 MHz front side bus.
Merom tops out at 2.33 GHz, Conroe tops out at 2.93 GHz (On the $999 'Core 2 Extreme X6800', vs. $530 for the 2.66 GHz 'Core 2 Duo E6700'.)

In fact, they are both architecturally identical to the Xeon 5100 series chip (Woodcrest) in the new Mac Pro, as well. (The Xeon is in an LGA-771 package ,on a 1333 MHz front side bus, tops out at 3.0 GHz, and can be used in dual-socket systems.)

[Silentwave]

Important thing to note, Apple will need to invest in a new LB for the iMac if it *does* stay with mobile chips once Santa Rosa chipsets come out- totally new socket. They may be fine just going to Conroe now.

I would not mind seeing a bit more RAM capacity either...

[exabytes18]

...

How dare I consider a Conroe in the same league as a G5. Shame on me. Unfortunately, this was a non-technical discussion regarding the iMac and I don't care about high clocked G5s and Xeons intended for workstations and servers.

I like how everything is the same (but different). I think it's time to put some xeons or maybe some itanium2s in macbooks. ;)

[Chone]

No, more like: (And properly compared,)

Merom : Conroe :: G5 with slower bus in the iMac G5 : G5 with faster bus in the higher-end Power Mac G5.

Or:

Yonah : G4 :: Conroe/Merom/Woodcrest : G5 (Yonah is the 'Core Duo' and 'Core Solo' in all the current Macs except the Mac Pro)

Merom and Conroe are the exact same chip. Both have the exact same core architecture, both are available in 2 MB and 4 MB L2 cache versions. The ONLY differences are:

Merom comes in a Socket-479 package, Conroe comes in an LGA-775 package.
Merom has a 667 MHz front side bus, Conroe has a 1066 MHz front side bus.
Merom tops out at 2.33 GHz, Conroe tops out at 2.93 GHz (On the $999 'Core 2 Extreme X6800', vs. $530 for the 2.66 GHz 'Core 2 Duo E6700'.)

In fact, they are both architecturally identical to the Xeon 5100 series chip (Woodcrest) in the new Mac Pro, as well. (The Xeon is in an LGA-771 package ,on a 1333 MHz front side bus, tops out at 3.0 GHz, and can be used in dual-socket systems.)

Exactly people treat Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest like they are completely different beasts when quite in fact they are the same except for pin count, fsb and clockspeed (as limited by Intel) and in the case of the Xeon, multisocket capacity.

Thats why I'm so :confused: when people swear to god iMac won't have Conroe because its too hot blah blah, they have even compared Conroe to G5, Conroe is TONS better than G5, in pure performance and performance-per-watt ratio, in fact, Merom and even Yonah are better than G5 on a performance-per-watt ratio, quite honestly, G5 sucked and Apple being stuck with G4 for portables was terrible, I have a PowerBook G4 thats similar to the best pre-intel Apple laptop and its SLOWER than my rig from 2001.

Thank god for the Intel switch.

[~Shard~]

For all practical purposes.

I wasn't trying to be technical. :o

Ah, I see. Well, you're received several replies now including my own to help enlighten you on the technical side of things, so hopefully that helps. ;) :)

[mrgreen4242]

The iMac is due for a redesign pretty soon anyways, so I'm hoping go for a casing that gives them good thermal control with minimum noise (eg, not sandwhich all the parts on top of one another).

I just wish they would make it a headless system instead of an AIO. Won't happen, I know, but would be nice. What I'd like to see is the return of the G4 design... take the mini, upgrade the CPU speed and put a discreet GPU in it, throw the whole thing into the base and connect a 20" LCD to it on an arm. Put it in black and call it good.

Make a Conroe based headless Mac Pro mini in a Cube case and call me when you're ready. Four desktop and two laptop lines seem about right, although I'd like a smaller 12-13", lower priced MBP, like the good ole' days!

[~Shard~]

The iMac is due for a redesign pretty soon anyways, so I'm hoping go for a casing that gives them good thermal control with minimum noise (eg, not sandwhich all the parts on top of one another).

I just wish they would make it a headless system instead of an AIO. Won't happen, I know, but would be nice. What I'd like to see is the return of the G4 design... take the mini, upgrade the CPU speed and put a discreet GPU in it, throw the whole thing into the base and connect a 20" LCD to it on an arm. Put it in black and call it good.

Make a Conroe based headless Mac Pro mini in a Cube case and call me when you're ready. Four desktop and two laptop lines seem about right, although I'd like a smaller 12-13", lower priced MBP, like the good ole' days!

Yeah, I have a G4 iMac and prefer the design of it over the G5 iMac's design. I'd love to see a headless option as well, but I doubt it will happen - people will argue that Apple already has 2 headless solutions, the Mac Pro and the Mac mini. For me though, as I've stated before, the mini isn't powerful enough, and the Mac Pro is overkill for my needs. The iMac meets my needs, but I'm not the biggest fan of the AIO either. When I eventually upgrade my system, it would be nice to be able to reuse my display, not throw it away with my machine. (Hmm, what was that about Apple being low on Greenpeace's environmentally-friendly list? ;) )

So a Conroe mini-tower would be great. Max it out at 4 RAM slots (not 8 slots like the Pro), give me 2 HDD bays (not 4 like the Pro) which are easily accessible for replacing/upgrading, even just one optical drive bay is fine (not 2 like the Pro), give me dedicated graphics, only 1 GigE port (not like 2 in the Pro) and don't force me to buy a quad-core Xeon system (single Conroe is fine). I can buy my own display, or use an existing one, and the price would be lower than that of a Mac Pro. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. :cool:

[ridergroov]

Is there a huge difference with the current imac chip and the conroe or the merom? I'm guessing there is...if not...i'd consider purchasing now....

[Silentwave]

Is there a huge difference with the current imac chip and the conroe or the merom? I'm guessing there is...if not...i'd consider purchasing now....

Biggest difference:
Merom and Conroe are 64 bit. Leopard is aiming to take advantage of 64 bit.
Next level:
Next Gen microarchitecture. Core 2 chips use the Intel Core microarchitecture Intel Core Duo/Core Solo chips use the Pentium M microarchitecture
Result: Core 2 is more efficient per clock and more power efficient overall.
After that:
higher clock speeds
larger L2 Cache
faster FSB (Conroe)
Merom priced same at release as Core Duo was Conroe even cheaper.

[ridergroov]

My result..i wait!

[ehurtley]

I like how everything is the same (but different). I think it's time to put some xeons or maybe some itanium2s in macbooks.

Well, the Xeon 5148 LV (http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/xeon.htm) uses only 40W, and the 'laptop' line of Core 2 Duo T7000 (http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/about/core.htm)s is specced for up to 49W... (Although I believe that all of the current Core 2 Duo mobile chips are 35W parts.)

But the 20W per module for FB-DIMM memory would be the big deal-breaker. Hopefully Intel will have a DDR2-using chipset that the low voltage Xeons can use, otherwise you'll end up with the memory consuming significantly more power than the processor.

And as for an Itanium 2? Well, the lowest-power Itanium 2 uses only 75W, where the Mobile Pentium 4 uses 70W, so not too much of an increase. (The Mobile Pentium 4 was the choice 'big and heavy', desktop-replacement processor before Core Duo.)

(Yes, I know your post was in jest.)

[DavidLeblond]

My thoughts:

The new iMac will come out Sept 12.
It will be Merom.
It will be available in black (who isn't expecting this, seriously?)
(black may or may not carry an extra cost. based on Apple's current iMac lineup (17 vs 20) I'd say it would not)

It may have a (optional?) glossy screen

That is all.