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View Full Version : Apple lead on 17in notebooks but Wintel will follow!!


hacurio1
Mar 23, 2003, 08:30 AM
HP and Acer, to name but two, are preparing a Windows-based alternatives to Apple's 17in PowerBook.

Apple is currently advertising its new notebook like crazy. Well, it's got until the third quarter to attract buyers for the world's only big-brand laptop with a 17in screen.

Come Q3, and HP will launch its model, according to sources close to Taiwanese notebook contract manufacturer Quanta. Said sources, cited by DigiTimes, claim Quanta will produce the beast.

Previous HP wide-screen notebooks have been made by fellow Taiwanese manufactuer Inventec. Apple's own creation is built by Taiwan's Compal.

Acer's machine is said to be scheduled for a Q4 introduction.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/29872.html

This makes me mad……
:mad:

What do you thing?

filipp
Mar 23, 2003, 10:06 AM
Eh, dont worry.
I have been a PC-user since birth and I will tell you.
There is nothing a bigger screen can fix! The problem is not small screens but rather this complete boredom of using this Windose.

Even if there is a widescreen PC, the only thing it would get credits for would be watching DVDs. But the OS sucks still.

/ filipp

cubist
Mar 23, 2003, 10:21 AM
After all Windows is a clone of Mac anyway... Microsoft started with a clone of Dartmouth Basic, then bought a CP/M clone from Seattle Computer and wrote a Mac clone to run on top of it. They've been nothing but cloners from the beginning. Why, some have said the IBM PC was a clone of the Apple IIe. Microsoft's sole innovative product was the wondrous Microsoft Bob.

edesignuk
Mar 23, 2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by cubist
After all Windows is a clone of Mac anyway... Microsoft started with a clone of Dartmouth Basic, then bought a CP/M clone from Seattle Computer and wrote a Mac clone to run on top of it. They've been nothing but cloners from the beginning. Why, some have said the IBM PC was a clone of the Apple IIe. Microsoft's sole innovative product was the wondrous Microsoft Bob.
Why are you bitching at M$? This is a hardware issue, not M$ software. The point is that x86 manufactures are following the lead of Apple in producing widescreen notebooks.

chmorley
Mar 23, 2003, 10:38 AM
It's the natural evolution of things. This is not like M$ copying the Mac GUI and other Mac innovations. It's closer to all computers using lithium ion batteries PCMCIA cards. The technology is available to everyone, and it's a good idea.

17" screens are available. It was only a matter of time before all computer makers put them in laptops. It's no surprise Apple was first.

Chris

barkmonster
Mar 23, 2003, 10:50 AM
The only thing I have a problem with so far as windows laptops is the constant adverts for Centrino and it's amazing 'new' wireless technology that apple are celebrating the 4th year of this year :D

It's really stupid how apple only ever promote the look or coolness factor of their products rather than the software side and the REAL technological advancements that make the mac easier, more intuative and light years ahead of windows.

If a PC has a 17" LCD monitor, it's not going to suddenly give it a decent battery life or make the case slimline and light, it's just 'wow, it's big' just like 'wow it spins fast' and all the other big numbers people follow.

iJon
Mar 23, 2003, 11:52 AM
let me put one thing in your mind. i have the 17 inch to play with, and it is very wide, but yet is very light when yo uconsider what you are holding. can you imagine what a pc laptop will weigh and look like with this screen. and i bet itw onthave a backlit keyboard.

iJon

Steradian
Mar 23, 2003, 02:27 PM
Well, do remember that by 3rd quarter this year thier will be a revision for mac laptops and so these competitors will again be baskping in the blue glow of the Alu-Book :)

beatle888
Mar 23, 2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Steradian
baskping in the blue glow of the Alu-Book :)

i wish it was blue, but its actually a white light that the keyboard uses.

i was gonna say the same thing iJon did. this thing will most likely be a beast. clunky and heavy.

janey
Mar 23, 2003, 02:42 PM
no matter what no PC laptop with a 17" screen will be as stylish and as light as the PowerBook.
PC's are ugly and horrendously heavy (one exception: sony) and Apple's laptops on the other hand are very beautiful and if anyone in their right mind is considering buying a 17" PC laptop they should consider the Aluminum PowerBook.

hacurio1
Mar 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by iJon
let me put one thing in your mind. i have the 17 inch to play with, and it is very wide, but yet is very light when yo uconsider what you are holding. can you imagine what a pc laptop will weigh and look like with this screen. and i bet itw onthave a backlit keyboard.

iJon

LOL…. couldn’t agree more! If Dell made a 1.52” thick 6.9 pounds monster by using the wide 15” screen, I would imagine that if they used a 17” screen they would probably end up with a 3”thick 12 pound monster!!!! No Facts just speculation…but based on wintel’s tendencies (I’m not talking centrino here):p

janey
Mar 23, 2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by hacurio1
LOL?. couldn?t agree more! If Dell made a 1.52? thick 6.9 pounds monster by using the wide 15? screen, I would imagine that if they used a 17? screen they would probably end up with a 3?thick 12 pound monster!!!!
a 2.8" thick 14 pound monster you mean ;)

NavyIntel007
Mar 23, 2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Why are you bitching at M$? This is a hardware issue, not M$ software. The point is that x86 manufactures are following the lead of Apple in producing widescreen notebooks.

I think you're wrong here. There's really no such thing as a widescreen 15" laptop, they're all square. So the 17" will probably be the same.

acj
Mar 23, 2003, 10:25 PM
Software aside, Apple has "copied" lots of things PC's had first.

USB
IDE hard drives
CD Burners
3D accelerators
AGP
PCI
SDRAM
DDR Ram
LCD's
Dual CPU's
L3 Cache (AMD K6-3)
On-Die L2 cache
SIMD
Single card dual monitors (I think)


Coming soon for Apple to "copy":
64 bit high end desktop CPU (well this is a race between the Opteron and 970. )
Multi-channel ram
Serial ATA
Fast FSB
On Die memory controller (not so soon for Apple, soon for AMD)

Seriously, they're all computers. It's technology available to everyone. Stop whining.

Softwares a different story, and Apple wins out most of the time, although I always thought the dock looked a lot like a pretty task bar (which is 8 years old). There's a list here too though.. think multitasking to start with.

yzedf
Mar 23, 2003, 10:32 PM
acj: shhh... you are going to wake up the trolls ;) they seem to think that of all the companies in the industry, only one can innovate. obviously rubbish, but it is what they think/preach.

bentmywookie
Mar 23, 2003, 11:05 PM
I agree that apple's laptops are marvelously designed but one thing that really irks me is that apple is not competitive at all in the ultralight market (3 lbs. and below). I was really hoping the 12" powerbook was going to be their answer to that market. But the wintel world has choices like the new Toshiba Portege R100 and Panasonic Toughbook T1 that apple users just don't have.

I can't say the 12" isn't totally uncompetitive in this area, but still, you have more than a 2 lb. difference in weight between the 12" powerbook and the two PC laptops mentioned above and to me that is significant (and the Toshiba R100 does not seem like any weakling in the power area either)

GeneR
Mar 23, 2003, 11:43 PM
If PCs want 17" computers then fine. Why not let them? Once again Apple's brand will have claimed first-to-market position and reinforced its position as a leader in innovative design.

If PC mfgs don't make a 17", won't the 17" PB's innovative design still garner Apple praise? Either way, doesn't Apple win by generating publicity/hype?

Q3 is still enough time to entrench the Apple brand's core word: "innovation" in the general public's psyche. And it seems from a marketing standpoint that recognition's more important than anything in today's sagging computer marketplace.

I would think that all Apple needs now is a killer app that PC people covet. Maybe THEN we'll be playing with fire. FCP and iLife are cool. But they seem like only the first real steps for Apple to rise above the PC market.

I think the real question might be: What kind of app would you just LOVE to use day in a day out which would make your life so much easier?

And if you're a computer programmer, why not build it exclusively for the Apple market? Maybe a better GUI program that analyzes the world currency exchanges from the different FOREX sites?

Or maybe a stock market analyzer that compiles data from the last 100 years or has an AI which analyzes current trends against past trends? I dunno. Since we're more wireless than ever I would think business and investment programs would be outstanding arguments for using a Mac. IMHO it may make Macs seem like the "more professional" computers if it can help you do business that is not yet possible with most consumer PCs.

Just my babbling thoughts.. :D

Ajmbc
Mar 23, 2003, 11:53 PM
The PowerBook also has an optical drive. It is relatively light. The ratio of power to 'light-ness' is very high. What is the purpose of a sub-notebook when you have to attach an optical drive to it to do anything?
Just my $.02.

=ajmbc=

acj
Mar 24, 2003, 02:50 PM
Excellent point. PC's laptop are only now approaching this with Centrino. They were WAY behind.

bentmywookie
Mar 24, 2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by acj
Excellent point. PC's laptop are only now approaching this with Centrino. They were WAY behind.

I definitely agree - in terms of lightness to power ratio the Pb 12" is excellent, but still, you do not always need an optical drive around. I think, if you want something truly ultra-portable, you need to head over to the Wintel side (unfortunately). And with the Centrinos, these computers are no slugs and they have excellent battery life (I believe the Toshiba R100 has 1mb L3 cache w/ 400 mhz fsb, ddr ram). Apple may have excellent lightness to power ratios, but they don't have any ultraportables, which I think have a valid market.

iJon
Mar 24, 2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by acj
Software aside, Apple has "copied" lots of things PC's had first.

USB
IDE hard drives
CD Burners
3D accelerators
AGP
PCI
SDRAM
DDR Ram
LCD's
Dual CPU's
L3 Cache (AMD K6-3)
On-Die L2 cache
SIMD
Single card dual monitors (I think)


Coming soon for Apple to "copy":
64 bit high end desktop CPU (well this is a race between the Opteron and 970. )
Multi-channel ram
Serial ATA
Fast FSB
On Die memory controller (not so soon for Apple, soon for AMD)

Seriously, they're all computers. It's technology available to everyone. Stop whining.

Softwares a different story, and Apple wins out most of the time, although I always thought the dock looked a lot like a pretty task bar (which is 8 years old). There's a list here too though.. think multitasking to start with.
ummm apple did not copy usb. USB was hurting for customers because no one would take intel's technology. Apple came along and used USB and everyone else followed. This is why Intel's CEO and Steve are good friends, intel's ceo actually personally called steve and thanked him for using usb and getting usb so widespread and common.

iJon

hacurio1
Mar 24, 2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by acj
Software aside, Apple has "copied" lots of things PC's had first.

USB
IDE hard drives
CD Burners
3D accelerators
AGP
PCI
SDRAM
DDR Ram
LCD's
Dual CPU's
L3 Cache (AMD K6-3)
On-Die L2 cache
SIMD
Single card dual monitors (I think)


Coming soon for Apple to "copy":
64 bit high end desktop CPU (well this is a race between the Opteron and 970. )
Multi-channel ram
Serial ATA
Fast FSB
On Die memory controller (not so soon for Apple, soon for AMD)

Seriously, they're all computers. It's technology available to everyone. Stop whining.

Softwares a different story, and Apple wins out most of the time, although I always thought the dock looked a lot like a pretty task bar (which is 8 years old). There's a list here too though.. think multitasking to start with.

OK, you are talking nonsense. Please Explain and show some proof of your claims, because plain simple I don't believe you. For example, Multiple CPU were used since the beginning the computer era, Wintel did not invent dual or multiple CPU's systems. Even before Dual CPU machines where mainstream in PC's workstations (not servers,) Apple already built a Dual CPU machine for the 9600 or 9500 (don't remember.) Please…..explain

macphoria
Mar 24, 2003, 09:54 PM
-----Software aside, Apple has "copied" lots of things PC's had first.

-----USB
-----IDE hard drives
-----CD Burners
-----3D accelerators
-----AGP
-----PCI
-----SDRAM
-----DDR Ram
-----LCD's
----Dual CPU's
----L3 Cache (AMD K6-3)
----On-Die L2 cache
-----SIMD
----Single card dual monitors (I think)

These could very well be true. But PCs never managed to put them together in a configuration/package that was friendly to use. And as a consumer, I empathically mention "friendly to use" because it is efficiency behind this idea that makes a machine useful. Today, it does not matter who makes great bits and pieces. What matters is how you put them together to work effectively.

acj
Mar 25, 2003, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by hacurio1
OK, you are talking nonsense. Please Explain and show some proof of your claims, because plain simple I don't believe you. For example, Multiple CPU were used since the beginning the computer era, Wintel did not invent dual or multiple CPU's systems. Even before Dual CPU machines where mainstream in PC's workstations (not servers,) Apple already built a Dual CPU machine for the 9600 or 9500 (don't remember.) Please…..explain

Your argument is flawed. I said they were in PC's before Macs. URL=http://www.byte.com/art/9403/sec7/art3.htm]dual 486[/URL]

Are the 17" powerbooks mainstream?

acj
Mar 25, 2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by macphoria
-----Software aside, Apple has "copied" lots of things PC's had first.

-----USB
-----IDE hard drives
-----CD Burners
-----3D accelerators
-----AGP
-----PCI
-----SDRAM
-----DDR Ram
-----LCD's
----Dual CPU's
----L3 Cache (AMD K6-3)
----On-Die L2 cache
-----SIMD
----Single card dual monitors (I think)

These could very well be true. But PCs never managed to put them together in a configuration/package that was friendly to use. And as a consumer, I empathically mention "friendly to use" because it is efficiency behind this idea that makes a machine useful. Today, it does not matter who makes great bits and pieces. What matters is how you put them together to work effectively.

I totally agree.

daniel77
Mar 25, 2003, 02:18 AM
i still maintain that no one needs anything above 15''. if on the off chance u do, you seriosuly need to open your basement door and get some air-maybe a job :D

GeneR
Mar 25, 2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by daniel77
i still maintain that no one needs anything above 15''. if on the off chance u do, you seriosuly need to open your basement door and get some air-maybe a job :D

Ah! THAT'S what I've been doing wrong!

:D

mcs37
Mar 25, 2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by cubist
After all Windows is a clone of Mac anyway... Microsoft started with a clone of Dartmouth Basic, then bought a CP/M clone from Seattle Computer and wrote a Mac clone to run on top of it. They've been nothing but cloners from the beginning. Why, some have said the IBM PC was a clone of the Apple IIe. Microsoft's sole innovative product was the wondrous Microsoft Bob.

True but remember that Apple is a clone from Xerox!

Mike

acj
Mar 25, 2003, 11:23 PM
And the Dock is a clone of the taskbar? The dock is nicer, but the taskbar is 8 years old.

daedelgt
Mar 26, 2003, 07:42 AM
I think the dock is a clone of something much older. I'm sure graphical unix systems had their little "dock" before MS put in their own.

daniel77
Mar 26, 2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by daedelgt
I think the dock is a clone of something much older. I'm sure graphical unix systems had their little "dock" before MS put in their own.

that is true zealotism.

plain facts that are indicative of a little copying, but no IT CANNOT BE TRUE. :P

(because we all know apple has never done anything unethical)

I use macs and pc's daily and it upsets me deeply to read these boards and here such blatant disregard.

daedelgt
Mar 26, 2003, 09:40 AM
I use both too, but who really did come up with the taskbar/dock first? I know it wasn't Apple, and I doubt it was MS.

Macpoops
Apr 7, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by mcs37
True but remember that Apple is a clone from Xerox!

Mike

Actually Apple took the concept of the GUI(a Xerox) Original idea and develop the Mac around the concept. Xerox did not see any merit in the GUI. Apple then gave Xerox stock in the company for the idea they used.