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MacRumors
Aug 28, 2006, 12:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As expected, several laptop manufacturers (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3963) have released the first of the Core 2 Duo (Merom) based laptops today.

Dell, Toshiba, Samsung and Alienware announced laptop models which utilize the new Core 2 Duo processors.

Apple, however, has yet to announce a Merom/Core 2 Duo upgrade to their laptop line (MacBook and MacBook Pro), but several rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060814180417.shtml) suggest that these upgrades will come in September.

Historically, Apple's processor upgrades have been tied to Motorola/IBM's PowerPC upgrades which have generally been less frequent and less public than Intel's. With the switch to Intel, Apple may have to provide timely upgrades to remain competitive with Windows-based PC manufacturers.

spinko
Aug 28, 2006, 12:06 PM
bring them on...

superleccy
Aug 28, 2006, 12:07 PM
I bet they release a "processor bump" tomorrow.

SL

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 12:07 PM
I'll bet we see a Mini refresh tomorrow.

Teddy's
Aug 28, 2006, 12:07 PM
Great, just after the "back to school" shopping spree. Well, there will be better performance increases in 2007. I hope.

Jesus
Aug 28, 2006, 12:08 PM
I dream of a new macbook pro enclosure...

andiwm2003
Aug 28, 2006, 12:08 PM
not that it really matters. but they stole apples thunder.

and since steve compared osx to windows and the mac pro to dell and made lot's of fun about both they'd better stay on top of the game.

Unorthodox
Aug 28, 2006, 12:10 PM
This Tuesday! This Tuesday!

Eidorian
Aug 28, 2006, 12:11 PM
http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

DJMastaWes
Aug 28, 2006, 12:11 PM
This Tuesday! This Tuesday!
x2! Danm it! if they annouce it tomorrow, im gonna be in school (first day) from untill like 3:00PM. Unless they are annouced by 10AM Eastern.

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 12:12 PM
I think I'll just purchase a Core 2 Duo myself and drop it in my iMac.
Conroe, right?

~Shard~
Aug 28, 2006, 12:12 PM
Yeah, we all knew this was coming. It will be interesting to see how quickly Apple responds to its competition and follows suit. Hopefully very soon, I'm eager to see what exactly Apple does, i.e. only updates the MBPs, updates the whole MacBook line, updates the Mini as well... :cool:

Oh, and how about some Conroe iMacs? ;) :D

twoodcc
Aug 28, 2006, 12:14 PM
I'll bet we see a Mini refresh tomorrow.

i sure hope you are correct!!

bigbossbmb
Aug 28, 2006, 12:14 PM
This really doesn't matter. Apple will update stuff tomorrow. Steve likes to wait for tuesdays cuz he's a rockstar like that. :D

Apple announced the Intel iMac and MBP like 5-7 days after Yonah was brought out at the begining of Jan. It'll be announced tomorrow (75%) or next Tuesday (25%), but no later than that.

Eidorian
Aug 28, 2006, 12:15 PM
I think I'll just purchase a Core 2 Duo myself and drop it in my iMac.
Conroe, right?Merom... (http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom)

silverblue3
Aug 28, 2006, 12:15 PM
Assuming they release it tomorrow, would it be available at the apple store right away(not the online store)? :confused:

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 12:16 PM
Merom... (http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom)


Yeah for the portables, but Conroe for the desktop.

amac4me
Aug 28, 2006, 12:16 PM
I think Apple will try to get these out prior to the Paris expo. Why give up sales to announce the product at a later date?

Eidorian
Aug 28, 2006, 12:18 PM
Yeah for the portables, but Conroe for the desktop.Did you read the guide? You're talking about the iMac Core Duo, correct?

jholzner
Aug 28, 2006, 12:18 PM
Yeah for the portables, but Conroe for the desktop.

Conroe cannot be dropped in to Yonah MB only merom.

GFLPraxis
Aug 28, 2006, 12:20 PM
Yeah for the portables, but Conroe for the desktop.

But Merom uses the same socket as Core Duos, and Conroe uses a different socket. So Conroe won't fit in your iMac.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 28, 2006, 12:21 PM
This Tuesday! This Tuesday!

That would be great! *fingers crossed*

Hmmm... really we shouldn't be getting our hopes up but who cares! :p

DJMastaWes
Aug 28, 2006, 12:21 PM
This really doesn't matter. Apple will update stuff tomorrow. Steve likes to wait for tuesdays cuz he's a rockstar like that. :D

Apple announced the Intel iMac and MBP like 5-7 days after Yonah was brought out at the begining of Jan. It'll be announced tomorrow (75%) or next Tuesday (25%), but no later than that.
If your right i'll give you hugs untill you can''t breath!

Spanky Deluxe
Aug 28, 2006, 12:22 PM
A week Tuesday, a week Tuesday! I just put my mini on eBay and I'll get a good chunk less if they update them tomorrow! I thought the original rumour said after Labor day which is next week isn't it?

tekmoe
Aug 28, 2006, 12:25 PM
A week Tuesday, a week Tuesday! I just put my mini on eBay and I'll get a good chunk less if they update them tomorrow! I thought the original rumour said after Labor day which is next week isn't it?

the rumor was a huge shipment from the far east was expected to arrive on US soil on sept 5th...

things change...

BenRoethig
Aug 28, 2006, 12:25 PM
I predict Apple will update from Core 1 to Core 2 within eight days. The only changes beside the CPU is perhaps a doubling of video memory on the iMac and MBPs.

slffl
Aug 28, 2006, 12:25 PM
I hope we see a MBP upgrade soon. I'm getting restleless since I'm getting a new one as soon as they're updated. My 17" 1ghz PB is starting to show it's age :) .

puckhead193
Aug 28, 2006, 12:25 PM
if apple wants to stay competivie, they need to release updates tomorrow.. not wait for paris but tomorrow. Plus i can order a new iMac this week and still get my free ipod nano :D

Josias
Aug 28, 2006, 12:26 PM
God I want a 15" Merom MBP, but I need to get rid of my MB first, and I want iLife '07 in them. I can't wait for Leopard. Please Steve, read it...:D

BoyBach
Aug 28, 2006, 12:27 PM
I expect to see a speed bump across the entire range (excluding the Mac Pro) within the coming weeks.

X5-452
Aug 28, 2006, 12:29 PM
So, uh.... PowerBook G5's tomorrow?

BenRoethig
Aug 28, 2006, 12:29 PM
Yeah, we all knew this was coming. It will be interesting to see how quickly Apple responds to its competition and follows suit. Hopefully very soon, I'm eager to see what exactly Apple does, i.e. only updates the MBPs, updates the whole MacBook line, updates the Mini as well... :cool:

Oh, and how about some Conroe iMacs? ;) :D

I think there's a better chance of Merom iMacs. We're talking about a system in which they underclock a mobility Radeon x1600 to make it quieter. Conroe makes sense in a regular desktop, but I don’t see it happening with the iMac.

MattyMac
Aug 28, 2006, 12:30 PM
September and October are usually greeeeeeeaaaaaaaatttt months for apple!:D !:D !:D

GFLPraxis
Aug 28, 2006, 12:30 PM
Please give us an Intel iMac tomorrow...:D

School starts on the 20th, I want that iMac!

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 12:31 PM
Did you read the guide? You're talking about the iMac Core Duo, correct?

O.K....

Conroe cannot be dropped in to Yonah MB only merom.

Alright...

But Merom uses the same socket as Core Duos, and Conroe uses a different socket. So Conroe won't fit in your iMac.

Gotcha, Merom. Thanks guys. :)

Why so many negative votes?

zwida
Aug 28, 2006, 12:33 PM
Assuming they release it tomorrow, would it be available at the apple store right away(not the online store)? :confused:

Unlikely. It almost always takes time for these to show up at the retail location.

iMikeT
Aug 28, 2006, 12:34 PM
Quiet upgrade tomorrow?

silverblue3
Aug 28, 2006, 12:36 PM
Thats a bummer. Any info whether there will be a 7600 GT GPU in these babies? Coz the Alienware comes with them.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 28, 2006, 12:38 PM
Why so many negative votes?

Maybe because most manufacturers have started selling Core 2 Duo computers but Apple hasn't.

gugy
Aug 28, 2006, 12:39 PM
I dream of a new macbook pro enclosure...

wake up then, because it won't happen for awhile.
The current enclosure is very nice, so why change it?

Peace
Aug 28, 2006, 12:41 PM
Why so many negative votes?

I'm guessing it's because every computer maker has announced the new Core 2 Duo but Apple hasn't.That's why I voted negative.

zero2dash
Aug 28, 2006, 12:43 PM
With the switch to Intel, Apple may have to provide timely upgrades to remain competitive with Windows-based PC manufacturers.

Apple isn't trying to remain competitive with anyone. :rolleyes:
Never have, never will.
They march to the beat of their own drum.

Alpinism
Aug 28, 2006, 12:45 PM
Interesting to see Apple's move. Traditionally with PowerPC the upgrades are more serene and not as volatile and frequent as the intels.

As a lot of Apple users are "trendy, cool consumers", they might get pissed off at these "more frequent updates" that makes their "cool investments" absolete faster. :eek:

freeny
Aug 28, 2006, 12:46 PM
So, uh.... PowerBook G5's tomorrow?
I think my new rule will be to automatically place anyone using that line on my ignore list.

It lost its funny a long time ago.:rolleyes:

whyrichard
Aug 28, 2006, 12:49 PM
Hello!


I was thinking of buying an intel core solo and dropping in a processor that is the best i can get for it to use it as a rendering machine.....


.... should i bother waiting for the new mac mini's or should i go ahead and buy a cheapo core solo? especially since they would be sold for much less.....


thanks,
r.

bigbossbmb
Aug 28, 2006, 12:50 PM
If your right i'll give you hugs untill you can''t breath!

I did say the may just announce them tomorrow, but that rumor of a large shipment coming in from overseas seems like a better indication of when they may be shipping.

Luca Boccaccini
Aug 28, 2006, 12:51 PM
wake up then, because it won't happen for awhile.
The current enclosure is very nice, so why change it?

Hi gugy,

I agree with you: MBP are really nice, but.... the Macbook's keyboard design is simply gorgeous. Clean, with those rounded corners.
Not to mention the magnetic latch.:rolleyes:

It would be a leap forward a better design. And a greater coherence through the entire -book line.

Bye!

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 12:51 PM
wake up then, because it won't happen for awhile.
The current enclosure is very nice, so why change it?

I do agree that the look of the current enclosure is great, and it's doubtful we'll get a change to the look of the enclosure anytime soon. However, I can see them changing the enclosure to match up more with what the regular MB allows, i.e. easy access to the HDD bay so users can swap out hard drives ease. Now that would be nice.

tekmoe
Aug 28, 2006, 12:52 PM
I think my new rule will be to automatically place anyone using that line on my ignore list.

It lost its funny a long time ago.:rolleyes:

ditto.

DJMastaWes
Aug 28, 2006, 12:53 PM
I did say the may just announce them tomorrow, but that rumor of a large shipment coming in from overseas seems like a better indication of when they may be shipping.
If there annouced tomorrow that's 100% fine with me.

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 12:55 PM
It makes more sense for Apple to wait for tomorrow, anyway. This way, they can avoid being drowned out by the other manufacturer's announcements and simultaneously steel their fanfare. They'll probably do something like "New, with Merom, and more..." and add on another fancy feature or two to each thing to outdo the other laptop guys.

Though, I still think they're coming on the 18th of sept.

Micrll
Aug 28, 2006, 12:56 PM
I just want them to bump up the Macbook so then I can go ahead and buy my fist Mac. I just want to buy it when its the most current.

Dispite all the problems I have been reading about I am ready and willing to give it a try. Its been a hard decision all summer but its time.

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 12:58 PM
Maybe because most manufacturers have started selling Core 2 Duo computers but Apple hasn't.

I'm guessing it's because every computer maker has announced the new Core 2 Duo but Apple hasn't.That's why I voted negative.


I guess Apple needs to change their "update tuesdays" to match the competition eh? In other words, update on other days as needed.

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 12:58 PM
I just want them to bump up the Macbook so then I can go ahead and buy my fist Mac. I just want to buy it when its the most current.

Ya, that's that I'm hoping. For the same reason too. I've used macs forever, but never owned my very own (other than an old PowerMac 7500). I also hope they update the ipod soon, I want to get the latest and greatest but I need to order by wednesday :-p

weg
Aug 28, 2006, 01:03 PM
not that it really matters. but they stole apples thunder.

and since steve compared osx to windows and the mac pro to dell and made lot's of fun about both they'd better stay on top of the game.

I think that Apple shouldn't enter that race.. their products are distinguished by other features than mere processing power (as soon as this changes: goodbye Apple), and coming out with new models every few months will probably just piss off Apple customers (so far, it's pretty easy to know ALL current laptop models that Apple offers - can you say that for Dell, too?).

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 01:03 PM
Assuming they release it tomorrow, would it be available at the apple store right away(not the online store)? :confused:

Usually, Apple tends to make newly announced product available in their retail outlets as soon as it's announced, or quickly there after--within a day or two of the announcement.

Of course, there have been excpetions to this rule, so Apple might announce upgrades tomorrow with availability dependent upon when shipments arrive from overseas.

Who knows? Perhaps those shipments came early and they're already in the back rooms of stores ready to hit retail tomorrow. Prudence dictates though that we'll probably see upgrades to current lines in the next two to three weeks. Being hopeful for tomorrow is probably just a pipe dream.

I think Apple does realize that by adopting Intel as their chip supplier, it is necessary to stay current with new technology, but I also think they don't feel the need to announce/release products with that new technology as soon as their competitors do. Apple takes a very laissez faire attitude towards public appearances concerning their competition with Microsoft and other PC manufacturers. They certainly do care what those companies are up to, but they're going to pretend that they don't really care. It's all part of their marketing strategy since the whole Think Different campaign began. Therefore, announcing their upgrades so close to the competition announcing theirs, kind of doesn't make sense from Apple's marketing standpoint.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. :D

Eidorian
Aug 28, 2006, 01:06 PM
O.K....



Alright...



Gotcha, Merom. Thanks guys. :)I wonder if some people read the guide I made at all. :confused:

DavPeanut
Aug 28, 2006, 01:10 PM
Though, I still think they're coming on the 18th of sept.

That would be way behind everyone else, and also would prevent students from taking advantage of the free iPod Nano with a new computer. Also, if they want to catch the student market (like me) they need to update tomorrow, or at least on September 5. The shipments from asia are probably the best indicator of a release that we have seen to date. Apple would not leave "secret" massive shipments lying around unsold. There are over 150 Apple Stores worldwide, and there is no way there wont be some sort of security breach if hundreds of thousands of boxes are sitting around all around the world. I personally would probably find a way into the nearest Apple Store storage room to see what is in those boxes, though I proably wouldn't have to because an apple employee would blab first.

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 01:10 PM
I wonder if some people read the guide I made at all. :confused:

I did after you posted on this thread. As I said, Thanks.

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2006, 01:14 PM
Apple would not leave "secret" massive shipments lying around unsold.

Yeah, Apple would NEVER do THAT. :rolleyes:

anim8or
Aug 28, 2006, 01:15 PM
It makes more sense for Apple to wait for tomorrow, anyway. This way, they can avoid being drowned out by the other manufacturer's announcements and simultaneously steel their fanfare. They'll probably do something like "New, with Merom, and more..." and add on another fancy feature or two to each thing to outdo the other laptop guys.

Though, I still think they're coming on the 18th of sept.


Every time i read a post like this i cringe a little!

There are so many rumors about a new ipod coming in the next few weeks/months/etc, most likely announced at Paris (maybe).

Therefor if apple were to release a new ipod they would want to try and get rid of some older models! Thus i conclude that even if the new MBPs are announced or even shipping tomorrow then more people would buy one with the ipod offer... ...getting rid of sed older models!

So why would they wait til after the promotion?

Apple dont needhelp shifting notebooks but if they announce a new ipod you would bet that not many people would want the original ipod video over a new improved one!?

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 01:21 PM
There are so many rumors about a new ipod coming in the next few weeks/months/etc, most likely announced at Paris (maybe).

That would be an awesome birthday present for me, my birthday is the 12th ;-)

jholzner
Aug 28, 2006, 01:21 PM
Every time i read a post like this i cringe a little!

There are so many rumors about a new ipod coming in the next few weeks/months/etc, most likely announced at Paris (maybe).

Therefor if apple were to release a new ipod they would want to try and get rid of some older models! Thus i conclude that even if the new MBPs are announced or even shipping tomorrow then more people would buy one with the ipod offer... ...getting rid of sed older models!

So why would they wait til after the promotion?

Apple dont needhelp shifting notebooks but if they announce a new ipod you would bet that not many people would want the original ipod video over a new improved one!?

I see people still talking about big announcements at the Paris expo. Considering there will be NO keynote of any kind I find it unlikely.

DavPeanut
Aug 28, 2006, 01:23 PM
Yeah, Apple would NEVER do THAT. :rolleyes:

These are products that are now competing directly with the products or the PC industry. I have been using macs since I was about 4, but now that Apple is using Intel Processors, all they really have going for them are their ability to run OS X and their design, which are huge for most of Apple's current market. The ability to run Windows though has helped recently to increase Apple's sales, but it means that apples are now directly competing with Dell, HP and the like. It used to be that apple boasted about their benchmarks versus PCs, but with the Mac Pro, they have been boasting about their price. The innards of a high-end Dell workstation are almost identical to those of the Mac Pro, and likewise, the MacBook and MacBook Pros are very similar to the offerings of the rest of the computer industry. If apple wants to be able to market their products based solely on their products special features they won't sell. It has been the comparible performance along with the things that make Apples Apples that have caused MacBooks to become backordered.

BBC B 32k
Aug 28, 2006, 01:23 PM
my cat has told me that there will be a 23" chin-less iMac with the new Core 2 Duo chips, 1gig std, wireless kbd and mouse std. Or he is just hungry - hard to tell just what he is saying but he has friends in high places (trees mostly)

still heres hoping he's spot on

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 01:24 PM
Apple dont needhelp shifting notebooks but if they announce a new ipod you would bet that not many people would want the original ipod video over a new improved one!?

This is my hope...
The merom MBP's are available before the free Nano promotion ends. I buy a MBP and get the free Nano.
New widescreen iPod video's are released sometime after (October?) to coincide with Apple's annoucement of movie downloads on iTunes.
Then, I sell both my Nano and my old iPod video, and buy the brand new iPod video. :D

BoyBach
Aug 28, 2006, 01:25 PM
I see people still talking about big announcements at the Paris expo. Considering there will be NO keynote of any kind I find it unlikely.


Agreed. I think there will be 'quiet updates' of the Mac range in the coming weeks, plus a 'Special Event' or two in the coming months for the announcements of the new iPods and Movie Store.

gugy
Aug 28, 2006, 01:29 PM
I do agree that the look of the current enclosure is great, and it's doubtful we'll get a change to the look of the enclosure anytime soon. However, I can see them changing the enclosure to match up more with what the regular MB allows, i.e. easy access to the HDD bay so users can swap out hard drives ease. Now that would be nice.


sure, I agree that minimal changes might happen. If it improves the experience, why not.
A total redesign case is what I doubt. It will take some time. I would say at least 1 year from now.
Same for the entire line up. Imac, MacPro, laptops, Mac Mini, displays, etc. Apple's current hardware design is very nice. Besides minor improvements, big changes will take some time IMHO.

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2006, 01:31 PM
my cat has told me that there will be a 23" chin-less iMac with the new Core 2 Duo chips, 1gig std, wireless kbd and mouse std. Or he is just hungry - hard to tell just what he is saying but he has friends in high places (trees mostly)

still heres hoping he's spot on

I'm hoping he is too!

My cat told ME that there will be Merom based iMacs released tomorrow. That, or she wants fresh water. I'm not sure which.

MattG
Aug 28, 2006, 01:32 PM
Wow, that Dell 2010...it's just like an iMac, just 3x the price and 3x as ugly. Eww.

dernhelm
Aug 28, 2006, 01:35 PM
I see people still talking about big announcements at the Paris expo. Considering there will be NO keynote of any kind I find it unlikely.

Agreed. There won't be anything of import in Paris itself. But Apple may release updates in conjunction with the Expo from their Cupertino campus.

That should make the Expo organizers _really_ happy! :rolleyes:

BoyBach
Aug 28, 2006, 01:36 PM
my cat has told me that there will be a 23" chin-less iMac with the new Core 2 Duo chips, 1gig std, wireless kbd and mouse std. Or he is just hungry - hard to tell just what he is saying but he has friends in high places (trees mostly)

still heres hoping he's spot on


Can you ask your cat if I should pack my 'big' coat or a 'summer' coat for my holiday in Portugal next week? Cheers. :D

macintel007
Aug 28, 2006, 01:41 PM
It's about time that Apple realize that people want to be in pairs with the rest of the PC world. To offer a 1,66GHz while PC computers are at 2GHz...well you know?

Come on Apple, don't let us begging :-))

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 01:42 PM
Apple isn't trying to remain competitive with anyone. :rolleyes:
Never have, never will.
They march to the beat of their own drum.

They're competitive with the Mac Pro. Very competitive.

I'd like to see apple release merom and conroe machines ASAP, but I'm not going to rake them over the coals for lagging the announcements from PC makers by a few days (probably in the next two or three tuesdays).

Are all the pc merom laptops shipping immediately?

I think that Apple shouldn't enter that race.. their products are distinguished by other features than mere processing power (as soon as this changes: goodbye Apple), and coming out with new models every few months will probably just piss off Apple customers (so far, it's pretty easy to know ALL current laptop models that Apple offers - can you say that for Dell, too?).

Updating wouldn't mean new models, just bumps to what they're shipping now. And that's a GOOD thing, apple customers should be happy about having the latest and greatest available, not pissed off. Apple needs to consistently keep up with the latest cpus.

Unspeaked
Aug 28, 2006, 01:42 PM
I just want them to bump up the Macbook so then I can go ahead and buy my fist Mac. I just want to buy it when its the most current.

Um, it's most current whenever you buy it.

As long as you're not buying the past generation, anyway.

If you walked into the Apple Store today and bought a 2GHz MacBook, it'd be the most current.

Squonk
Aug 28, 2006, 01:57 PM
So, uh.... PowerBook G5's tomorrow?

Yeah, something like that...:cool:

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 01:59 PM
Um, it's most current whenever you buy it.

As long as you're not buying the past generation, anyway.

If you walked into the Apple Store today and bought a 2GHz MacBook, it'd be the most current.

But if you buy right after an update, instead of right before, your computer will remain current for a longer time. Can't really blame people for wanting to hold out for a rev, especially when it's inevitable that it will be very soon.

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2006, 02:00 PM
If you walked into the Apple Store today and bought a 2GHz MacBook, it'd be the most current.

Until tomorrow.

Well, allegedly. ... More like in my dreams.

Chatham
Aug 28, 2006, 02:03 PM
I would love to see an increase in the screen size on iMacs, but that doesn't seem likely without an overhaul to the entire enclosure.


Can the current imacs support a 24" Dell widescreen in dual monitor mode?

adamfilip
Aug 28, 2006, 02:07 PM
from what ive read the difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo isnt much
its not like P4 and Core 2 Duo

the Core 2 Duo are -10-15% faster at the same clock speed but use more power

Peace
Aug 28, 2006, 02:10 PM
from what ive read the difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo isnt much
its not like P4 and Core 2 Duo

the Core 2 Duo are -10-15% faster at the same clock speed but use more power

They're also 64-bit and if Apple uses the Conroe the FSB is a lot faster.

NorCalLights
Aug 28, 2006, 02:17 PM
Can the current imacs support a 24" Dell widescreen in dual monitor mode?

Yeah... it's the 30" displasys that need a special graphics card.

jouster
Aug 28, 2006, 02:18 PM
These are products that are now competing directly with the products or the PC industry.....

Apple has always competed directly with PCs and related products.

.....now that Apple is using Intel Processors, all they really have going for them are their ability to run OS X and their design

When were those not the only distinctions Apple had? I mean, who really bought Macs because they had processors based on a different ISA?

zero2dash
Aug 28, 2006, 02:24 PM
They're competitive with the Mac Pro. Very competitive.

Mac Pro - you get a lot for the money. More pricey than most users are willing to spend, but unquestionably, "a lot of bang for the buck".

Still, my point is that Apple isn't trying to remain competitive in regards to grabbing sales or going outside of their niche market. Apple has diehard fans that will purchase whatever they sell, no matter what. They don't need to attempt to go outside of that faction because they'll have a hard time swaying general computer users who are used to Windows already or don't want to pay the premium price. Apple gives you a lot of computer for the price, but the price is still above and beyond what anyone else will charge you. Then it boils down to asking yourself "do you want to pay for the Apple experience" and some people say 'yes' and others say 'no'. For better or worse, I don't see this changing in the near future. Apple does sell competitively priced computers (ie Mini) but they're also limiting the user in regards to upgradability; I don't think anyone can argue the upgrade capabilities of a minitower or tower @ $500 versus a small form factor for $600. Can you upgrade Macs? For the most part, yes, undoubtedly. How far can you upgrade your Mac? That depends on how much you spent upfront on it, deciding between a SFF and a $1,999 Mac Pro tower.

I still love Macs and I enjoy working in OSX, but they really need to get on the 'headless Mac' idea, stat. IMO they could (seemingly overnight) gain at least a 10%+ market share if they released a tower desktop for $600, but that throws a monkey wrench into the rest of their hardware sku lineup, and they're not going to allow that to happen. Unless they kill off the Mini and slash prices on the iMac first, we'll never see a sub-$1,000 Mac in a tower enclosure.

shawnce
Aug 28, 2006, 02:25 PM
from what ive read the difference between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo isnt much
its not like P4 and Core 2 Duo

the Core 2 Duo are -10-15% faster at the same clock speed but use more power At the same clock speed they use about the same amount of power but have improved performance AND they support x86-64, have much improved SIMD hardware (bringing SSE much closer to AltiVec in terms of performance per clock) and double the L2 cache. All around this is a better CPU.

...however for them to truly shine you will want to pair them with Intel's new mobile chipset that should be out early next year (if not sooner).

sixth
Aug 28, 2006, 02:25 PM
MY cat told ME directly....MBP's will be upgraded tommorrow...she knows all...haha

roland.g
Aug 28, 2006, 02:33 PM
I too am waiting for a revision before buying. But it is somewhat ridiculous. Like saying I could date this girl now, or I could wait until next month when a faster one turns 18.

On another note, anyone notice that Mini's are gone from the refurb store...

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 02:39 PM
my cat has told me that there will be a 23" chin-less iMac with the new Core 2 Duo chips, 1gig std, wireless kbd and mouse std. Or he is just hungry - hard to tell just what he is saying but he has friends in high places (trees mostly)

still heres hoping he's spot on


Funny, my neighbor's cat told me that we will see a new 20" iMac
with Merom inside and upgraded graphics with Dual Link DVI output to support the 30" display....;)

roland.g
Aug 28, 2006, 02:40 PM
Unfortunately, cats are known liars.

4God
Aug 28, 2006, 02:41 PM
Unfortunately, cats are known liars.

DOH!!!! 55999

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2006, 02:42 PM
I too am waiting for a revision before buying. But it is somewhat ridiculous. Like saying I could date this girl now, or I could wait until next month when a faster one turns 18.

On another note, anyone notice that Mini's are gone from the refurb store...

Well I think most people are like me, they want their money to go as far as it can go. Right now $2000 will get you a decent 20" 32bit processor iMac. A few weeks from now (or hours! who knows! excitement!) it will get you a decent 20" 64bit processor iMac. I got my iBook about a week before they announced a speed bump (did not know enough about Mac culture to know to wait) and it pissed me off. Not gonna happen to me again!

Josias
Aug 28, 2006, 02:45 PM
To the guy that on page 2 requested a 7600GT in the MBP's: Why? The X1800XT is gonna whoop it's butt, and ATI is way better at making mobile cards. Oh BTW, the X1600's were not underlocked. I saw a thread somewhere, that said they wouldnøt run at full speed when not needed.;)

DavidLeblond
Aug 28, 2006, 02:47 PM
Unfortunately, cats are known liars.

They're purposely getting our hopes up just to let us down. It weakens us. Humbles us. After hearing no announcements tomorrow all we will do is sulk around, giving us more time to give them more dried food.

They're still pissed about the MagSafe connector... that ruined things for them.

Peace
Aug 28, 2006, 02:47 PM
Man you guys have some smart cats.All mine ever says is feed me and let me outside.

I DO have a little bird that talks a lot though.He says new iMacs with Conroe.Movie services and TIVO to be announced on or around the IBC convention Sept 8th

http://www.ibc.org/cgi-bin/displaypage.cgi?pageref=100

Which by the way Apple is attending and is listed in these catagories :

Computers
DV Editing Systems
DVD Authoring equipment
Editing - Video
HDTV
Internet
Multi Media
Non Linear Video Editing
PC, Internet and multimedia
Software

;)

paulsecic
Aug 28, 2006, 02:50 PM
A week Tuesday, a week Tuesday! I just put my mini on eBay and I'll get a good chunk less if they update them tomorrow! I thought the original rumour said after Labor day which is next week isn't it?
Im broke now. I hope they wait til October. :(

Stridder44
Aug 28, 2006, 02:50 PM
Well I think most people are like me, they want their money to go as far as it can go. Right now $2000 will get you a decent 20" 32bit processor iMac. A few weeks from now (or hours! who knows! excitement!) it will get you a decent 20" 64bit processor iMac. I got my iBook about a week before they announced a speed bump (did not know enough about Mac culture to know to wait) and it pissed me off. Not gonna happen to me again!

I understand exactly what you're saying, and agree 100%. I don't understand how people can't understand this theory. "Waiting for Rev. B" is one this, but "waiting for that minor update that's only a week away at the most" makes sense, and it's stupid not to wait. Don't listen to them, they're just jealous because you have patience and they don't. :D


Also Im not sure if this has been mentioned, but the "free iPod with a Mac" offer ends sept. 16 according to the Apple Store....not sure if there's any correlation going here...

ariechel
Aug 28, 2006, 03:00 PM
Agreed. There won't be anything of import in Paris itself. But Apple may release updates in conjunction with the Expo from their Cupertino campus.

That should make the Expo organizers _really_ happy! :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm just getting caught up in the feverish excitement surrounding the impending release of Merom-based Apple notebooks, but I am going to predict that Apple will debut new iPods at Paris (which is why they banned all non-iPod mp3 players at the Apple Expo).

To give this announcement maximum effect they must announce MacBook Pros with Merom outside of the Apple Expo. Since other PC manufacturers have now announced Merom-based notebooks, Apple will likely present the MacBook Pros before the Expo, so either tomorrow or next week Tueday. I stand by my earlier predictions that MacBooks (and Mac Minis) will not get Meroms yet.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 03:01 PM
Also Im not sure if this has been mentioned, but the "free iPod with a Mac" offer ends sept. 16 according to the Apple Store....not sure if there's any correlation going here...

This has been said many times by many people including myself who are all hoping to cash in on the free ipod offer by the 16th. Maybe if we all collectively think happy thoughts it will happen. Here's to hope! :D

tekmoe
Aug 28, 2006, 03:05 PM
hahahahahhahaha

merom is better than everyone anticipated... ---> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/intel-core-duo-whassup-faster-197105.php

all the people who said it's only marginal at best can stick it where the sun don't shine! suckaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzz

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 03:06 PM
Can the current imacs support a 24" Dell widescreen in dual monitor mode?

Why don't you just look it up on the apple and dell sites?

It will, the imac will drive up to 1920 x 1200, which is what the dell 24 is.

Still, my point is that Apple isn't trying to remain competitive in regards to grabbing sales or going outside of their niche market. Apple has diehard fans that will purchase whatever they sell, no matter what. They don't need to attempt to go outside of that faction because they'll have a hard time swaying general computer users who are used to Windows already or don't want to pay the premium price.

I don't know that I'd agree with that either. The macbook and pro are pretty competitive, and the imac and mini offer some fairly reasonable machines. I'd agree that a midtower would be a great addition to their line and appeal to more untapped potential buyers, but apple is appealing to PC switchers already, as evidenced by their increasing market share and the number of consumers buying a mac for the first time. They *are* trying to remain competitive, and are succeeding in some cases, they just aren't 100% competitive in every part of the computer market.

roland.g
Aug 28, 2006, 03:07 PM
Well I think most people are like me, they want their money to go as far as it can go. Right now $2000 will get you a decent 20" 32bit processor iMac. A few weeks from now (or hours! who knows! excitement!) it will get you a decent 20" 64bit processor iMac. I got my iBook about a week before they announced a speed bump (did not know enough about Mac culture to know to wait) and it pissed me off. Not gonna happen to me again!

Hey I said I too have been waiting - since June - to replace my 6 1/2 year old G4. Don't even have iWeb or Tiger. At this point, I almost want to wait to get Leopard pre-installed on a Santa Rosa motherboard. It's a vicious circle. So sue me for being a little bored while I wait for revisions. And speaking of, can we stop the should I buy now or wait threads. Find one and read it.

anthonymoody
Aug 28, 2006, 03:12 PM
With the switch to Intel, Apple may have to provide timely upgrades to remain competitive with Windows-based PC manufacturers.


Aint that the understatement of the year!

TM

Object-X
Aug 28, 2006, 03:12 PM
I'll bet we see a Mini refresh tomorrow.

That would be good news for me since I just bought a mini last week. I could return it and get a new one. Anyone know of benchmarks comparing the core duo with the core 2 duo?

lessthandmb
Aug 28, 2006, 03:13 PM
There's no chance apple is releasing MBP's tomorrow. There are too many things pointing towards early/mid-Sept.

-The shipment is planned for Sept. 5th (reliable sources)
-Dell/Alienware aren't shipping merom chips until the end of
September
-Gateway did not even make merom available, they only released the
desktop chip.
-The Apple website was just updated to the new front page
(pc v.s. mac ads), which they wouldn't just put up to take down
-Apple does not want to be bunched together with all the other PC
manufacturers so are more likely to:
-release an even faster version of merom (past 2.33ghz)
-wait until they are ready to ship that day so apple could
tout "get your MBP today"
-put dual lower clocked chips (1.8/2.0ghz) making the MBP
a "Quad" :o ...aright maybe not.

And what is on the side of "They will be released tomorrow"

-Tomorrow is Tuesday:)

Jeremy

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 03:20 PM
There's no chance apple is releasing MBP's tomorrow. There are too many things pointing towards early/mid-Sept.

There's no question that apple will not *ship* merom machines tomorrow. But there's nothing stopping them from making the announcement and taking preorders.

prezpat2020
Aug 28, 2006, 03:22 PM
I dream of a new macbook pro enclosure...

Amen to that! Give me the Santa Rosa with a new MacBook Pro enclosure and 10.5 preinstalled... THEN I'll upgrade from my sturdy G3 iBook!

JoshH
Aug 28, 2006, 03:26 PM
Come on Apple... open the doors. Let's not be too far behind, here...

hdsalinas
Aug 28, 2006, 03:27 PM
my cat has told me that there will be a 23" chin-less iMac with the new Core 2 Duo chips, 1gig std, wireless kbd and mouse std. Or he is just hungry - hard to tell just what he is saying but he has friends in high places (trees mostly)

still heres hoping he's spot on

This would be great.

Apple, offer the 23" screen at the same price the 20" is now and the "new" 20 with the 17´s price. Also, go ahead and surprise everyone by releasing Leopard for Christmas. Oh, and BTW, if you upgrade the memory to 1GB, make it just a single1GB stick and not two 512. (I want to be able to buy a sencond 1GB stick later on without wasting memory)

deputy_doofy
Aug 28, 2006, 03:28 PM
Come on Apple... open the doors. Let's not be too far behind, here...

I hope Apple is at least somewhat prepared for the demand... :)

fall3n
Aug 28, 2006, 03:29 PM
Hey I said I too have been waiting - since June - to replace my 6 1/2 year old G4. Don't even have iWeb or Tiger. At this point, I almost want to wait to get Leopard pre-installed on a Santa Rosa motherboard. It's a vicious circle. So sue me for being a little bored while I wait for revisions. And speaking of, can we stop the should I buy now or wait threads. Find one and read it.

there will ALWAYS be updates, if you keep waiting for the next one you'll be waiting forever. Santa rosa isn't going to be THAT amazing of an upgrade. I'd just buy the core duo 2 when they release and then upgrade to leopard later. But that's just me.

deputy_doofy
Aug 28, 2006, 03:30 PM
there will ALWAYS be updates, if you keep waiting for the next one you'll be waiting forever. Santa rosa isn't going to be THAT amazing of an upgrade. I'd just buy the core duo 2 when they release and then upgrade to leopard later. But that's just me.

Agreed. That would have been like waiting for the 167MHz bus on the old Powerbooks because the 133MHz wasn't cutting it.... :p

reflex
Aug 28, 2006, 03:31 PM
These are products that are now competing directly with the products or the PC industry. I have been using macs since I was about 4, but now that Apple is using Intel Processors, all they really have going for them are their ability to run OS X and their design, which are huge for most of Apple's current market. The ability to run Windows though has helped recently to increase Apple's sales, but it means that apples are now directly competing with Dell, HP and the like.

There are two kinds of people who would consider a mac:
1. those who want to run OSX: they have no choice, just like before
2. those who want to run Windows: they had no reason to buy a mac before, but they can consider it now

So with the move to Intel, Apple has in fact increased its potential market. If they play it well, I'm guessing they'll sell a lot more computers in the near future than they did in the past.

Just my uneducated guess.

Randall
Aug 28, 2006, 03:35 PM
I doubt that Apple will announce any Core 2 Duo upgrades to the MacBook Pro line until Sept 18th at Paris. That is just the way Apple does things, and I think it will be within the appropriate time frame for processor upgrades (It's been just 8 months since the initial release of MBP.)

It will be interresting as this is the first of many processor upgrades from intel's "Core" lineup. If Apple wants to continue to march to the beat of their own drum and feel like they can update their own lines as they see fit, then it would be in their best interest to have multiple upgrades at the same time. In other words upgrade the video card and HDD while you're at it to make it seem like the longer wait was worth while.

prady16
Aug 28, 2006, 03:37 PM
The new MBPs will be announced on 6th with the free 2-3 day shipping, so MBPs would arrive sooner than the PCs inspite of announcing a week later!

vega07
Aug 28, 2006, 03:49 PM
The new MBPs will be announced on 6th with the free 2-3 day shipping, so MBPs would arrive sooner than the PCs inspite of announcing a week later!

where'd you get that info...or is that your wishful thinking out loud?:rolleyes:

miller218
Aug 28, 2006, 03:51 PM
there will ALWAYS be updates, if you keep waiting for the next one you'll be waiting forever. Santa rosa isn't going to be THAT amazing of an upgrade. I'd just buy the core duo 2 when they release and then upgrade to leopard later. But that's just me.

What about the Robson flash technology. That sounds like the greatest thing since a laptop with a palmrest on the bottom and an "upside down" logo.

epitaphic
Aug 28, 2006, 04:00 PM
There's no question that apple will not *ship* merom machines tomorrow. But there's nothing stopping them from making the announcement and taking preorders.

ah yes. just like they did with the eMac back in the day. that was popular... you know, not having a product to ship for weeks.

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 04:03 PM
ah yes. just like they did with the eMac back in the day. that was popular... you know, not having a product to ship for weeks.

Well, assuming they announced and shipped about the same time as the PC companies, there's really not that much to complain about. Don't forget, they did it with the MPB as well.

And if people are really unwilling to wait a couple weeks, nothing is stopping them from buying the yonah models.

ready2switch
Aug 28, 2006, 04:06 PM
ah yes. just like they did with the eMac back in the day. that was popular... you know, not having a product to ship for weeks.

Isn't that how they introduced the MBP in January? Announced at MWSF and then not shipped until sometime in February? (I think the iMacs shipped right away, which could be a good "hint" that they could get conroe....if you like that sort of a parallel.)

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:08 PM
Well, assuming they announced and shipped about the same time as the PC companies, there's really not that much to complain about. Don't forget, they did it with the MPB as well.

And if people are really unwilling to wait a couple weeks, nothing is stopping them from buying the yonah models.

Some of us don't have time to wait, my friend. Some of us need these things for school, which starts shortly. Very shortly. And a customized MacBook already takes 1-2 weeks to get to you. Which means I need to order by september 5th at the latest.

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 04:09 PM
Some of us don't have time to wait, my friend. Some of us need these things for school, which starts shortly. Very shortly. And a customized MacBook already takes 1-2 weeks to get to you. Which means I need to order by september 5th at the latest.

So order it.

I was talking about people who buy a machine and immediately consider returning it.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 04:10 PM
And if people are really unwilling to wait a couple weeks, nothing is stopping them from buying the yonah models.

Or if they want the simple satisfaction of having a C2D laptop on order, they can always pre-order one at Dell, HP, etc., then cancel that pre-order when the MBP C2D are announced. That way, in spirit, they can have a mac Core 2 Duo machine on pre-order right now. :)

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:11 PM
So order it.

I was talking about people who buy a machine and immediately consider returning it.

Speaking of returns, is there a possibility of buying the machine and if they don't auto-upgrade me to the new one, return it and buy a new one?

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:12 PM
Or if they want the simple satisfaction of having a C2D laptop on order, they can always pre-order one at Dell, HP, etc., then cancel that pre-order when the MBP C2D are announced. That way, in spirit, they can have a mac Core 2 Duo machine on pre-order right now. :)

I believe such behavior is sign of impending mental collapse...

direzz
Aug 28, 2006, 04:12 PM
this goes to show how behind apple is in updating.
clearly they arent ready to adapt to an intel platform. the cant even make simple processor adjustments on time!
all the major companies have made this transition.

apple needs to stop being so secretive. they need to start acting like a real computer company, and let there customers know when upgrades are coming.
i wouldnt be surprised if we didnt see these upgrades till october.. no.. january.


this is ridiculous.


/end rant

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:14 PM
this goes to show how behind apple is in updating.
clearly they arent ready to adapt to an intel platform. the cant even make simple processor adjustments on time!
all the major companies have made this transition.

apple needs to stop being so secretive. they need to start acting like a real computer company, and let there customers know when upgrades are coming.
i wouldnt be surprised if we didnt see these upgrades till october.. no.. january.


this is ridiculous.


/end rant

On time? The other companies just announced, and are not actually shipping. Give apple time, I'm sure they'll be shipping before the others. :-)

direzz
Aug 28, 2006, 04:15 PM
On time? The other companies just announced, and are not actually shipping. Give apple time, I'm sure they'll be shipping before the others. :-)


yea, with tons of problems to the machines.

i love apple, but everytime i buy one of there laptops, they suck!

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 04:18 PM
Speaking of returns, is there a possibility of buying the machine and if they don't auto-upgrade me to the new one, return it and buy a new one?

Only if you buy the machine but don't open the box (unless you're willing to pay a 10% restocking fee). And that's only if you get the standard config, no custom BTO. Plus if you order it, you'll pay shipping back to them.

this goes to show how behind apple is in updating.
clearly they arent ready to adapt to an intel platform. the cant even make simple processor adjustments on time!
all the major companies have made this transition.

Actually NONE of the pc companies have made the transition. They haven't shipped a single machine with the new chips, just made announcements of shipments days or weeks away (and that was just earlier today...even if apple was behind, they'd only be hours behind, not even a full day). Right now apple is only behind in press releases, which has nothing to do with being ready to adapt to an intel platform. Now ranting about PC companies that haven't shipped the new machines yet...THAT is ridiculous.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 04:18 PM
I believe such behavior is sign of impending mental collapse...

I wouldn't do it, but it might make some one happy. You never know.

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:20 PM
yea, with tons of problems to the machines.

i love apple, but everytime i buy one of there laptops, they suck!

Then I pose the following:

a) Why are you still buying them?
b) Why are you still here?

TheKrillr
Aug 28, 2006, 04:22 PM
Only if you buy the machine but don't open the box (unless you're willing to pay a 10% restocking fee). And that's only if you get the standard config, no custom BTO. Plus if you order it, you'll pay shipping back to them.

Hmmm.... looks like if I want to, I'll have to ebay it. :-p Thanks for the info though.

roland.g
Aug 28, 2006, 04:22 PM
You don't hear this much crying in a hospital nursery.

iMikeT
Aug 28, 2006, 04:37 PM
I think the whining (about notebooks being crap) is the fact that there is so much demand for it that Apple has no time to actually test the product.

It's a good thing that they offer free replacements for those that find defects actual defects in the machines. Usually the first batch is not so perfect, and that goes for all computer manufacturers.

iMikeT
Aug 28, 2006, 04:38 PM
yea, with tons of problems to the machines.

i love apple, but everytime i buy one of there laptops, they suck!



You try making something perfect the first time around.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 04:55 PM
You try making something perfect the first time around.

To be fair, direzz is just one person, not a major corporation who pride themselves on providing peerless products with few defects. That being said, with technology, there's always a certain percentage of failure rate with new systems. Eventually they work those out, but if you're an early adopter, then you run a higher risk of being in that percentile.

Additionally direzz, you said everytime you've bought a new apple product it's had defects. Yet you still buy from them. There's got to be a point where you should just say, "screw it. I'm not buying from X corporation anymore because I get bad products every time." Vote with your money. Go buy somewhere else. I would certainly go to another manufacturer if every product I bought from a particular company was defective.

Then again, you haven't really told us what you consider defective is. Sometimes programs crash, even on a mac. Sometimes little things happen that make you say, "darnit." Then you move on because it's not that big of a deal. Then there are some things, like a MB randomly shutting down, or batteries bursting into flames that make you say, "holy crap! This thing is messed up! And this is my third mac that this has happened to!" In other words, don't sweat the little stuff. :)

EagerDragon
Aug 28, 2006, 05:01 PM
I bet they announce tomorrow and available on the 5th. That will match with the bulk shipment.

EagerDragon
Aug 28, 2006, 05:03 PM
You try making something perfect the first time around.

I know, had that problem with the Avocado, the pit is too big.

hdsalinas
Aug 28, 2006, 05:10 PM
Only if you buy the machine but don't open the box (unless you're willing to pay a 10% restocking fee). And that's only if you get the standard config, no custom BTO. Plus if you order it, you'll pay shipping back to them.



Actually NONE of the pc companies have made the transition. They haven't shipped a single machine with the new chips, just made announcements of shipments days or weeks away (and that was just earlier today...even if apple was behind, they'd only be hours behind, not even a full day). Right now apple is only behind in press releases, which has nothing to do with being ready to adapt to an intel platform. Now ranting about PC companies that haven't shipped the new machines yet...THAT is ridiculous.



I also think (this is my personal opinion, is not based on facts but just my impression) that apple has more "intense" followers than HP o Dell. Apple fans are always waiting for the latest and greatest from apple. They talk about new products making all kinds of speculation and rumors. (just like this thread)

While HP and Dell (gateway, toshiba etc) dont seem to have people as excited about their new product releases. They can say, in two weeks we will release this laptop with this processor and no one really cares as much as if apple would make the same statement.

These companies just sell appliances. People who are in the market for a windows based PC/laptop just look at what is currently available and buy what fufills their needs. Then they forget about HP (or any other manufacturer) until is time to replace their equipment.

But then again I may be wrong.

fall3n
Aug 28, 2006, 05:21 PM
What about the Robson flash technology. That sounds like the greatest thing since a laptop with a palmrest on the bottom and an "upside down" logo.

of course that would be useful and by all means wait another year if you must, but personally i'd rather just buy now and then upgrade later as if it's really that amazing then the sockets are still compatable and an easy upgrade.

SC68Cal
Aug 28, 2006, 05:24 PM
Depends on if the PC manufacturers are SHIPPING the Core 2 Duo laptops. If Apple announces that the new Merom laptops are available and are ready to ship that day, then it isn't a big deal.

If Apple is being beat to market on hardware, then Apple should go back to PowerPC because they're no different then any other PC manufacturer, with their switch to Intel.

There is a significantly less amount of wiggle room for them, they will now have to answer to shareholders, about why they are taking so long to roll out a product that all the other PC manufacturers are shipping.

swingerofbirch
Aug 28, 2006, 05:30 PM
As an Apple investor I am dissapointed because I know how this looks to the inudstry: Apple has been pansted.

As an Apple enthusiast, I know Apple insists on marching to the beat of their own drummer. Let's just hope they march soon.

milo
Aug 28, 2006, 05:34 PM
As an Apple investor I am dissapointed because I know how this looks to the inudstry: Apple has been pansted.

Give me a break. The industry completely understands that none of these laptops is shipping for at least a week or two. As long as apple SHIPS machines about the same time as everyone else, what "pantsing" has taken place outside of the minds of apple fanboys?

Depends on if the PC manufacturers are SHIPPING the Core 2 Duo laptops.

They're not. You're seriously whining about "taking so long" when the first announcements came *earlier today*? Really? A "delay" of HOURS is something shareholders are going to freak out over???

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 05:35 PM
There is a significantly less amount of wiggle room for them, they will now have to answer to shareholders, about why they are taking so long to roll out a product that all the other PC manufacturers are shipping.

But since the other companies (Dell, HP, etc.) aren't actually shipping their C2D laptops and systems for at least another two weeks, I don't think Apple is sweating it, and I'm betting their shareholders aren't worried either.

Apple is probably simply waiting until their shipments from overseas that are due to hit on the 5th, are actually in stores and online ready to purchase before they make the announcement. If they do announce on the 5th or 6th, they'll pobably be available to order and ship that day. In that sense, they would actually be shipping before any of the other manufacturers. If they wait until the following week, or the week after, they'll still be shipping at or about the same time as the other companies.

Apple won't be behind on shipments just because they're behind on announcements. They probably just want to have their systems available before they announce them.

swingerofbirch
Aug 28, 2006, 05:45 PM
Give me a break. The industry completely understands that none of these laptops is shipping for at least a week or two. As long as apple SHIPS machines about the same time as everyone else, what "pantsing" has taken place outside of the minds of apple fanboys?



Apple always claims that Macs are better than PCs. Dell and HP aren't making those same claims. I've never heard either company publicly dump on Apple. Apple dumps on them on TV all the time.

So with all this dumping going on, Apple better have at least equal hardware. They were first out with the core 2 duo xeon and with yonah.

But with Merom/Conroe, make no mistake, they have been pansted.

If they don't come out soon, there will be a public flogging.


Now mind you, I say this as an investor, not as an enthusiast.

Being both an enthusiast and investor makes me as a whole a critical enthusiast, but far from a fanboy or apologist.

We expect that we can throw stones at Windows, but that Apple will never be bruised? (Get it...windows breaks...and apples bruise if you hit them..haha)

bigbossbmb
Aug 28, 2006, 05:52 PM
So with all this dumping going on, Apple better have at least equal hardware. They were first out with the core 2 duo xeon and with yonah.



I don't know about woodcrest...but they were definitely not the first with yonah.

miranon
Aug 28, 2006, 05:53 PM
They were not the first with core duo, nor with woodrest.

Duujo
Aug 28, 2006, 06:03 PM
Quote:
"Originally Posted by X5-452
So, uh.... PowerBook G5's tomorrow?"


I think my new rule will be to automatically place anyone using that line on my ignore list.

It lost its funny a long time ago.:rolleyes:




Ha, it makes me laugh still, 'cause it annoys other people..! :p

yojitani
Aug 28, 2006, 06:08 PM
To be fair, direzz is just one person, not a major corporation who pride themselves on providing peerless products with few defects. That being said, with technology, there's always a certain percentage of failure rate with new systems. Eventually they work those out, but if you're an early adopter, then you run a higher risk of being in that percentile.

Additionally direzz, you said everytime you've bought a new apple product it's had defects. Yet you still buy from them. There's got to be a point where you should just say, "screw it. I'm not buying from X corporation anymore because I get bad products every time." Vote with your money. Go buy somewhere else. I would certainly go to another manufacturer if every product I bought from a particular company was defective.

Then again, you haven't really told us what you consider defective is. Sometimes programs crash, even on a mac. Sometimes little things happen that make you say, "darnit." Then you move on because it's not that big of a deal. Then there are some things, like a MB randomly shutting down, or batteries bursting into flames that make you say, "holy crap! This thing is messed up! And this is my third mac that this has happened to!" In other words, don't sweat the little stuff. :)

To be fair to direzz, he said that every mac LAPTOP he bought has sucked, not every computer.

I will buy a macbook soon, but I am worried after so many bad reports. And to add to that a friend bought a 17" MBP not so long ago and the workmanship really did look pretty shoddy and rushed. Sure enough, the keypad is now white and there is a nice discolored patch on her desk where the thing overheated.. how apple compares to other corporations, I don't honestly know. I like apple computers because they have been the most stable machines I've worked with and owned...maybe I had the bad luck of the draw with PC's. Anyway, any company will make a buck in whatever way possible-and will even vilify itself when it gets caught going a little too far in reducing labor costs:rolleyes: . They do it because they know they can get away with it. My friend with the pos MBP doesn't even want to complain about it. I don't think she is atypical...

Neh, Merom, schmerom. Not sure why a small change in processor will suddenly make macs comparatively worse computers..Apple 'competed' with the G4 chip all these years, I can't imagine that failure to announce an update the same day as a bunch of companies that also make sub-par products is really going to make a big difference. I think the financial argument is just another way of saying:"I want a [insert computer name] with a Merom chip NOW."

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 06:08 PM
Quote:
"Originally Posted by X5-452
So, uh.... PowerBook G5's tomorrow?"







Ha, it makes me laugh still, 'cause it annoys other people..! :p

You certainly know how to make friends, sir.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 06:11 PM
To be fair to direzz, he said that every mac LAPTOP he bought has sucked, not every computer.

To be fair to me, that's what I meant, actually. :)

Duujo
Aug 28, 2006, 06:19 PM
You certainly know how to make friends, sir.


yeah.. it's true.. amazing my girlfriend has hung around this long.!! :D

floam
Aug 28, 2006, 06:26 PM
.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 06:30 PM
Not sure if this could be related, but we just tried to order 25 custom macbook pros and were told that such an order could not be carried out at this time. Perhaps something is going to be changing soon? (or maybe they're just out of some memory or something).

A very similar thing was reported earlier last week with a guy who wanted to purchase a whole slew of Mac Mini's.

I needed to order another bunch to use as Mac mini servers (and to add to my great wall of Apple boxes) but I was told by the reseller (name withdrawn so they don’t get in trouble) that they can’t take big orders (again), but after Labor Day they’d be able to ship plenty of the new model.
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060824183848.shtml

I would think that's a very good indication that Apple is getting ready to begin selling the C2D MBP's. :D

Multimedia
Aug 28, 2006, 06:41 PM
Post #20 Page 1 Conroe cannot be dropped in to Yonah MB only merom.Not in MacBook nor MacBook Pros because they have no socket. You can only upgrade mini and iMac with Merom because only they both have compatible sockets. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind that a 2.33GHz Merom costs almost as much as a new mini. But it will run way faster. Hope the mini's cooling system can handle the higher temperature. Good luck all you brave upgraders.

Core 2 Duo Product Line

Model....Frequency........MSRP
T7600...2.33 GHz-4L2...$637
T7400...2.16 GHz-4L2...$432
T7200...2.00 GHz-4L2...$294
T5600...1.83 GHz-2L2...$241
T5500...1.66 GHz-2L2...$209

poppe
Aug 28, 2006, 06:49 PM
hahahahahhahaha

merom is better than everyone anticipated... ---> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/intel-core-duo-whassup-faster-197105.php

all the people who said it's only marginal at best can stick it where the sun don't shine! suckaaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzz

Cool find, but I dont much believe it completely.

Just my thought...

I just trust that Arstancia website (how ever it is spelled) They did a core 2 duo laptop review and got some performance increases of around 10-15% but never 22%...

dbit
Aug 28, 2006, 06:55 PM
If the Core 2 Duo hits tomorrow I'm buying!

Does anybody have a link to a site that can help me set it up to run windows and os x as optimized as possible? Somebody sent me a link to some mac rumors guides, but nothing that really contained info about setting up the os such as proper partitioning, etc. I heard recently some information about not using the admin account as your primary, etc. I need more tips like this.

I don't mind if it takes me a week to set the thing up, I just want it set up for the longest future possible.

Any info is appreciated!

SC68Cal
Aug 28, 2006, 06:57 PM
They're not. You're seriously whining about "taking so long" when the first announcements came *earlier today*? Really? A "delay" of HOURS is something shareholders are going to freak out over???

Why don't you read the rest of my statement, fanboy?


If Apple announces that the new Merom laptops are available and are ready to ship that day, then it isn't a big deal.

Multimedia
Aug 28, 2006, 06:57 PM
Cool find, but I dont much believe it completely. Just my thought... I just trust that Arstancia website (how ever it is spelled) They did a core 2 duo laptop review and got some performance increases of around 10-15% but never 22%...That's because they were using pre-production samples. Here's what was found with final release units over at PC Perspective (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=288&type=expert&pid=1):

"We can now say without a doubt that Intel's latest mobile CPU has nailed the holy grail in mobile computing - it performs faster, consumes less power, and generates less heat. What else is there to say besides that?"

NicP
Aug 28, 2006, 07:09 PM
I think the whining (about notebooks being crap) is the fact that there is so much demand for it that Apple has no time to actually test the product.

It's a good thing that they offer free replacements for those that find defects actual defects in the machines. Usually the first batch is not so perfect, and that goes for all computer manufacturers.

I have 2 macbooks in for repair (they have been being repaired for just under 2 weeks, both have multiple problems) I have spoken to apple on the phone several times to try and get them replaced and they flat out refuse.

WildPalms
Aug 28, 2006, 07:11 PM
I wonder if some people read the guide I made at all. :confused:

I do, I think you did a great job.

breakfastcrew
Aug 28, 2006, 07:30 PM
ha ha I predict nothing until after the school rebate in the US is over. ;) at least the consumer products.

floam
Aug 28, 2006, 07:51 PM
.

bigbossbmb
Aug 28, 2006, 08:02 PM
ha ha I predict nothing until after the school rebate in the US is over. ;) at least the consumer products.

the update will happen before the rebate ends since its purpose is to clear out the iPods before new models arrive.

miller218
Aug 28, 2006, 08:24 PM
of course that would be useful and by all means wait another year if you must, but personally i'd rather just buy now and then upgrade later as if it's really that amazing then the sockets are still compatable and an easy upgrade.

Well, you won't be upgrading laptops because the chip is soldered in
I'm sure there isn't a slot to put the flash memory in
Your old chipset won't support it

It all comes down to if you NEED it.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 08:44 PM
I really hope it takes until november or december. Watching you all squirm and making positive posts predicting a swift release for your own peace of mind is entertaining, and probably educational.

Then this is the place to be right now if you want to see a lot of people squirming with anticipation. Unfortunately, the C2D will be shipping in select Mac systems in the next two to three weeks, so you're entertainment will be short lived. Sorry. But until that time, have a good time. :p

joel8x
Aug 28, 2006, 09:11 PM
Sorry to crash the party, but it would seem a little strange for Apple to upgrade the MacBook and/or MB Pro's until sometime after the 16th when their current college promotion ends. Promotion = clearing out old stock (of notebooks & iPods).

Keep your mom's credit card in her purse for a few more weeks.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 09:21 PM
Sorry to crash the party, but it would seem a little strange for Apple to upgrade the MacBook and/or MB Pro's until sometime after the 16th when their current college promotion ends. Promotion = clearing out old stock (of notebooks & iPods).

Keep your mom's credit card in her purse for a few more weeks.

Hello Mr. Condescending, and glad you could join us.

There are arguments agreeing with you and those that disagree with you for equally good reasons. It's been all over these boards for the last several weeks, so you're not telling anyone anything they haven't thought, said, heard, or argued for or against. While I can definitely see both sides to this worn debate, in all honestly, I have no idea when Apple will release the C2D systems. And neither do you (or do you? :o )

But hey! That's why were here. To speculate, argue, and spread wild rumors based on tiny grains of truth.

shecky
Aug 28, 2006, 09:25 PM
Sorry to crash the party, but it would seem a little strange for Apple to upgrade the MacBook and/or MB Pro's until sometime after the 16th when their current college promotion ends.

well, in the past they have run this promotion and released new product without adding it to the rebate. so... i guess it would not be strange, no.

Keep your mom's credit card in her purse for a few more weeks.

here is a quarter, go call your mom and let her know you are not allowed to make condescending ill-informed posts on forums anymore.

Half Glass
Aug 28, 2006, 09:28 PM
Sorry to crash the party, but it would seem a little strange for Apple to upgrade the MacBook and/or MB Pro's until sometime after the 16th when their current college promotion ends. Promotion = clearing out old stock (of notebooks & iPods).

Keep your mom's credit card in her purse for a few more weeks.

This logic is flawed because just as they did with the MacPro, they will add the new laptops to the iPod promotion if they are released.

The ongoing promotion is no reason to delay such an upgrade. As others have stated, the promotion is an effort to clear inventory for the next model.

--HG

Half Glass
Aug 28, 2006, 09:29 PM
well, in the past they have run this promotion and released new product without adding it to the rebate. so... i guess it would not be strange, no.


Although I agree the post was condescending, Apple did in fact add MacPros to the iPod promotion when they were released.

--HG

shecky
Aug 28, 2006, 09:31 PM
Although I agree the post was condescending, Apple did in fact add MacPros to the iPod promotion when they were released.

--HG

yeah... and what about the past years when they have run the promotion and not added newly released product to the rebate? thats what i was referring to.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 09:35 PM
yeah... and what about the past years when they have run the promotion and not added newly released product to the rebate? thats what i was referring to.

And this is why I say it can go either way. The release of the C2D mac systems are not dependent upon the rebate IMO. It might happen or it might not. My guess is that Apple is not releasing their new computers based upon when the rebate ends. They'll simply release them, and if they happen to fall within the rebate period, that's not necessarily by design. But it is our good fortune. :)

shecky
Aug 28, 2006, 09:37 PM
And this is why I say it can go either way. The release of the C2D mac systems are not dependent upon the rebate IMO. It might happen or it might not. My guess is that Apple is not releasing their new computers based upon when the rebate ends. They'll simply release them, and if they happen to fall within the rebate period, that's not necessarily by design. But it is our good fortune. :)

i completely agree. this rebate has zero bearing on the new merom machines.

dondark
Aug 28, 2006, 09:42 PM
I would like to see a 10.6 inch 2lbs Mac Book Pro.

truz
Aug 28, 2006, 09:49 PM
Will an Apple Retail store upgrade your cpu? What's the cost to have this done without a warranty void?

Also,
The Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 1066MHz will work in an imac intel? newegg sells them for $369


Core 2 Duo Extreme runs at 2.93GHz

gauriemma
Aug 28, 2006, 09:53 PM
This was one of the things I was afraid would happen with the Intel switch--a new processor every eight minutes. At least with the PPCs, there were predictable, manageable gaps between bumps.

Peace
Aug 28, 2006, 09:57 PM
Will an Apple Retail store upgrade your cpu? What's the cost to have this done without a warranty void?

Also,
The Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 1066MHz will work in an imac intel? newegg sells them for $369


Core 2 Duo Extreme runs at 2.93GHz


Think you'd need a new logic board for that.The current Intel iMac's have a 667MHz FSB.The E6600 has a 1066MHz FSB.Compatability problems there.

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 10:13 PM
This was one of the things I was afraid would happen with the Intel switch--a new processor every eight minutes. At least with the PPCs, there were predictable, manageable gaps between bumps.

The only thing wrong with frequent updates is that us tech geeks tend to want the latest and greatest. In all actuality though, it allows us more choice as consumers. Sure, I'm going to buy a new C2D MBP as soon as they're available, but it's going to be my first new computer in over 3 years (I'm normally on a two-year plan :).) I'm hoping that I'll be good for another two to four years after that.

Of course, that's not going to keep me from wanting to upgrade whenever the newest iteration of whatever comes out, but most likely I'll be envious of everyone on here who does get that new system, and be content with what I have for the time being. When I'm really ready to actually upgrade, I know that Apple will probably be keeping up with the Joneses frequently enough so that I won't have to wait too long for their next computer/update/upgrade.

For me, Apple moving to Intel chips has allowed me to seriously become a full-fledged mac person again. I couldn't be happier. Keep those updates coming and make sure they're frequent! :D

dib
Aug 28, 2006, 10:25 PM
I ordered the following iMac online yesterday and the ship date is shown as 9/12 (16 days from order date). Who knows what this means.

MAC 20/2.0/SD CTO
ATI Radeon X1600-256MB SDRAM
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM-2x1GB
500GB Serial ATA drive
SuperDrive 8X
Kybd, Mighty Mse & Mac OS X
Country Kit

Estimated Shipped By Estimated Delivered By
Sep 12, 2006 Sep 19, 2006

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 28, 2006, 10:28 PM
Will an Apple Retail store upgrade your cpu? What's the cost to have this done without a warranty void?

Also,
The Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 1066MHz will work in an imac intel? newegg sells them for $369


Core 2 Duo Extreme runs at 2.93GHz

No, the Apple Retail Store will not upgrade your CPU. If you do upgrade your CPU, your warranty will be void. And the Conroe chip does NOT work in iMac Intels - rather, you'd need to use a MEROM chip if you wanted to upgrade it (but that, too, would void the warranty)

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 10:29 PM
I ordered the following iMac online yesterday and the ship date is shown as 9/12 (16 days from order date). Who knows what this means.

MAC 20/2.0/SD CTO
ATI Radeon X1600-256MB SDRAM
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM-2x1GB
500GB Serial ATA drive
SuperDrive 8X
Kybd, Mighty Mse & Mac OS X
Country Kit

Estimated Shipped By Estimated Delivered By
Sep 12, 2006 Sep 19, 2006

Could be increased demand for back-to-school season, though the report last week referenced only MacBooks.

I love reading stuff like this, because even though I'm currently only in the market for a MBP, it gives me hope that everyone who wants a mac this season is going to be quite happy.

Good news!:D

jaydub
Aug 28, 2006, 10:31 PM
wake up then, because it won't happen for awhile.
The current enclosure is very nice, so why change it?
Because people are so scared of immediate obsolescence that they'd rather hope for a new enclosure than enjoy what is currently out. It gets really old.

poppe
Aug 28, 2006, 10:50 PM
Because people are so scared of immediate obsolescence that they'd rather hope for a new enclosure than enjoy what is currently out. It gets really old.

Acctually what gets old is a look of the same thing for the long time. Now the Powerbook look is awesome, so improve upon it. All of us wishing for a new enclosure are not screaming we want a 17" White MB no no no. We are saying just change it up.

I always find it so funny these apple followers (not you, one I am posting to) that preach about how innovative apple is, but then minute another apple follower demands change, we get our torches, tar, and chicken feathers...

My dream would be a refined Powerbook look. Perhaps in a gunmetal (that super dark grey) still aluminum looking though.

generik
Aug 28, 2006, 10:52 PM
Now mind you, I say this as an investor, not as an enthusiast.


Go sell your Apple shares then, Apple is so going to cry over your few thousand dollars... NOT

BWhaler
Aug 28, 2006, 10:59 PM
I really hope it takes until november or december. Watching you all squirm and making positive posts predicting a swift release for your own peace of mind is entertaining, and probably educational.

mmmm...nothing like a little troll late in the evening.

Go back to DellRocksTheWorld.com or AmigaForever.com or RollYourOwnPC.com or whatever...

And have a nice day. :)

BWhaler
Aug 28, 2006, 11:01 PM
Well, I was disappointed, but not surprised.

Since no manufacturer is shipping until mid-September, it is no great shock that Apple did nothing today. Plus, they don't want to be grouped with those companies anyhow.

jaydub
Aug 28, 2006, 11:06 PM
Acctually what gets old is a look of the same thing for the long time. Now the Powerbook look is awesome, so improve upon it. All of us wishing for a new enclosure are not screaming we want a 17" White MB no no no. We are saying just change it up.

I always find it so funny these apple followers (not you, one I am posting to) that preach about how innovative apple is, but then minute another apple follower demands change, we get our torches, tar, and chicken feathers...

My dream would be a refined Powerbook look. Perhaps in a gunmetal (that super dark grey) still aluminum looking though.
Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a new enclosure but I think that allowing the prospect of one to be the determining factor in the purchase of a machine is ridiculous. As much as I would LOVE to have a gunmetal colored mbp, if it came out tomorrow I wouldn't be upset that I have a silver one because I truly do love my machine. Apple will always continue to innovate and release new products, and IMO now that they're using intel chips the rate of obsolescence will increase (in terms of harware and performance more than appearance).

poppe
Aug 28, 2006, 11:11 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a new enclosure but I think that allowing the prospect of one to be the determining factor in the purchase of a machine is ridiculous. As much as I would LOVE to have a gunmetal colored mbp, if it came out tomorrow I wouldn't be upset that I have a silver one because I truly do love my machine. Apple will always continue to innovate and release new products, and IMO now that they're using intel chips the rate of obsolescence will increase (in terms of harware and performance more than appearance).

Oh yes that makes sense.

I truly and honestly think the only reason I dont praise the Powerbook look is because now look how many computers are getting that aluminum finish and trying to look like Apple... Though they fail, it doesn't mean it still makes me want a change (if that makes sense?).

Cygnus311
Aug 28, 2006, 11:14 PM
I ordered the following iMac online yesterday and the ship date is shown as 9/12 (16 days from order date). Who knows what this means.

MAC 20/2.0/SD CTO
ATI Radeon X1600-256MB SDRAM
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM-2x1GB
500GB Serial ATA drive
SuperDrive 8X
Kybd, Mighty Mse & Mac OS X
Country Kit

Estimated Shipped By Estimated Delivered By
Sep 12, 2006 Sep 19, 2006

You upgraded RAM and HD through Apple?

HecubusPro
Aug 28, 2006, 11:23 PM
mmmm...nothing like a little troll late in the evening.

Go back to DellRocksTheWorld.com or AmigaForever.com or RollYourOwnPC.com or whatever...

And have a nice day. :)

Hey! I love my old Amiga 500! :p Of course, I'm sure I'll love my C2D MBP even more. :cool:

W. Ademczyk
Aug 28, 2006, 11:24 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a new enclosure but I think that allowing the prospect of one to be the determining factor in the purchase of a machine is ridiculous. As much as I would LOVE to have a gunmetal colored mbp, if it came out tomorrow I wouldn't be upset that I have a silver one because I truly do love my machine. Apple will always continue to innovate and release new products, and IMO now that they're using intel chips the rate of obsolescence will increase (in terms of harware and performance more than appearance).


More than likely a new case would mean a snazzy magnetic latch, a user replaceable HDD, and possibly an end to the MBP heat issue. When a 120 gb ipod comes out, is that the HDD you want in your computer? Besides, this is Apple we're talking about--do you really think any design change is going to be a demotion? Has any Apple redesign sucked? Ever?

gugy
Aug 28, 2006, 11:26 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a new enclosure but I think that allowing the prospect of one to be the determining factor in the purchase of a machine is ridiculous. As much as I would LOVE to have a gunmetal colored mbp, if it came out tomorrow I wouldn't be upset that I have a silver one because I truly do love my machine. Apple will always continue to innovate and release new products, and IMO now that they're using intel chips the rate of obsolescence will increase (in terms of harware and performance more than appearance).


To get a new design and enclosure is always nice. Apple has been doing amazing designs in the past years. For sure new enclosures will look nice.

The thing is, at this time after the whole Intel transition, all the current enclosures stayed the same (except few changes on Macbook). So, I would not expect anything different anytime soon. I think the current look is great in all Apple hardware line up. The only place I thought it could have a change was on the MacPro, because the G5 needed such a large enclosure. Apple responded keeping the same design and just adding more features that before was not possible under the G5 chip. That makes me believe they will keep the same enclosures for awhile.
I agreed that subtle improvements are welcome and they probably will happen. But if people are making their buying decision based on a new look coming soon, I think they will wait quite a bit and get disappoint.

bigwillis
Aug 28, 2006, 11:27 PM
Anyone else voting that they drop the price on the BlackBook to match the white MB? What are the chances, eh?

twoodcc
Aug 28, 2006, 11:49 PM
Anyone else voting that they drop the price on the BlackBook to match the white MB? What are the chances, eh?

that would be nice

~Shard~
Aug 28, 2006, 11:51 PM
Anyone else voting that they drop the price on the BlackBook to match the white MB? What are the chances, eh?

It's tough for Apple to justify the higher price to begin with, so, in their minds, why should they bother justifying a price cut? :p ;) :D

macmax77
Aug 29, 2006, 12:02 AM
i don't know, but i am not sure about this Intel thing yet!:mad:

~Shard~
Aug 29, 2006, 12:04 AM
i don't know, but i am not sure about this Intel thing yet!:mad:

Care to elaborate on why?

digitalbiker
Aug 29, 2006, 12:36 AM
To get a new design and enclosure is always nice. Apple has been doing amazing designs in the past years. For sure new enclosures will look nice.

The thing is, at this time after the whole Intel transition, all the current enclosures stayed the same (except few changes on Macbook). So, I would not expect anything different anytime soon. I think the current look is great in all Apple hardware line up.


I don't know. I think the latest MBP was rushed to market a bit. I think Apple just wanted to get to intel and really ddn't think about design.

The current PB look has been around since 2001. I think the alumin look is starting to look soooo 2000. Were heading toward 2007, time to move on with a new chip and a new look.

Personally I prefer plastic to metal. Metal shows way too many scratches, finger prints, smudges, etc. The smooth shiny plastic look is much better and it is more durable. The metal enclosures dent, bend and break. They also transmit the heat faster to your lap and interfere with BT and Airport. The plastic enclosures give and spring back like new.

Gun Metal ABS plastic with rounded smooth corners, new keyboard, quick access ram, HD, and battery, magnetic latch, sound like the future to me.:D

floam
Aug 29, 2006, 12:36 AM
.

iMeowbot
Aug 29, 2006, 01:05 AM
if apple wants to stay competivie, they need to release updates tomorrow.. not wait for paris but tomorrow. Plus i can order a new iMac this week and still get my free ipod nano :D
I'll note that the Dell notebook isn't shipping until 14 September (6th for the low end), and the desktop version shows a ship date in November. Apple have plenty of time.

i don't know, but i am not sure about this Intel thing yet!:mad:
If you really had your heart set on the PowerBook G5 form factor, the Tadpole Bullfrogs (http://www.tadpole.com/products/notebooks.asp) come pretty close. SPARC is fairly unusual, the other kids on the street probably won't have them.

Lollypop
Aug 29, 2006, 01:08 AM
The current PB look has been around since 2001. I think the alumin look is starting to look soooo 2000. Were heading toward 2007, time to move on with a new chip and a new look.


I still like the look of the PB, a few refinements would be welcome... mag latch, firewire 800 on the 15inch model. I dont think apple will do a complete redesign for a "small" upgrade like the C2D, but they can take the chance to polish their offerings a bit more.

drewyboy
Aug 29, 2006, 01:34 AM
Me personally, I like how the MBP are, but just give the Al. the black Al. such as the new U2 ipods have on the back. Very sleek and sexy.

kresh
Aug 29, 2006, 02:01 AM
Apple always claims that Macs are better than PCs. Dell and HP aren't making those same claims. I've never heard either company publicly dump on Apple. Apple dumps on them on TV all the time.


So Michael Dell publicly stating that Steve Jobs should close the doors and return the money to the investors is not dumping?

And which tv ad is the one where Apple is dumping on Dell or HP? I must have missed that one, I would like to see it too!

weg
Aug 29, 2006, 02:25 AM
all the people who said it's only marginal at best can stick it where the sun don't shine!

The only place where I can use my PB 12"...

poppe
Aug 29, 2006, 02:39 AM
I don't know. I think the latest MBP was rushed to market a bit. I think Apple just wanted to get to intel and really ddn't think about design.

The current PB look has been around since 2001. I think the alumin look is starting to look soooo 2000. Were heading toward 2007, time to move on with a new chip and a new look.

Personally I prefer plastic to metal. Metal shows way too many scratches, finger prints, smudges, etc. The smooth shiny plastic look is much better and it is more durable. The metal enclosures dent, bend and break. They also transmit the heat faster to your lap and interfere with BT and Airport. The plastic enclosures give and spring back like new.

Gun Metal ABS plastic with rounded smooth corners, new keyboard, quick access ram, HD, and battery, magnetic latch, sound like the future to me.:D

New keyboard? Like the MBs? Why would you want that (not trying to say thats dumb, i'm just curious to why you would want that over the current)

mightymike107
Aug 29, 2006, 03:08 AM
the MB keyboards are ugly, they remind me of some fool proof keyboard for military laptops. They reek of industrial utilitarianism.

It's starting to get early on the east coast; the apple store is still up, are these bad signs?

swingerofbirch
Aug 29, 2006, 03:15 AM
So Michael Dell publicly stating that Steve Jobs should close the doors and return the money to the investors is not dumping?

And which tv ad is the one where Apple is dumping on Dell or HP? I must have missed that one, I would like to see it too!


Michael Dell as a PERSON made those comments. Since then he has said that he would sell Mac OS X in a heartbeat. The public doesn't hear those comments. We hear them, but not the general public.

I am talking about messages the general public does see: magazine and TV ads.

Apple's ads are about PCs being bad and Macs being good.

They don't say Dell or HP. But who makes PC's?

I have never seen a PC manufacturer put out an ad that attacks Macs.

iMeowbot
Aug 29, 2006, 03:28 AM
I have never seen a PC manufacturer put out an ad that attacks Macs.

It happens. (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-26-2002/0001789141&EDATE=)


Gateway, Inc. (NYSE: GTW) today launches its sleek new Gateway Profile(R) 4 all-in-one PC with an aggressive advertising campaign encouraging people to compare it head-to-head with the Apple iMac computer on design, performance and value. TV, print and Web ads employ hard facts to demonstrate the superiority of the Gateway Profile 4 over the iMac.

reflex
Aug 29, 2006, 03:32 AM
They don't say Dell or HP. But who makes PC's?

Just about everyone and their dog? :)

Evangelion
Aug 29, 2006, 03:37 AM
yea, with tons of problems to the machines.

i love apple, but everytime i buy one of there laptops, they suck!

Then what is the problem here? You want Apple to announce new products "on time" and tell in advance when they are doing it. But you obviously are not interested in their laptops since "they suck". So why are you so concerned about this again?

Evangelion
Aug 29, 2006, 03:37 AM
this goes to show how behind apple is in updating.
clearly they arent ready to adapt to an intel platform. the cant even make simple processor adjustments on time!
all the major companies have made this transition.

Yes, Apple is doomed because the are few days behind in announcing their new laptops :rolleyes:. Obviously hordes of people are rushing to buy Toshibas and Dells (which might not ship for several weeks, for all we know) as we speak, and unless Apple IMMEDIATELY updates their products, they are doomed. DOOMED I tells ya!

Machead III
Aug 29, 2006, 03:39 AM
Shipping date on the 1.83Ghz White MB is 5-7 days. On the rest of the MBs it's 3-5.

All other comps are 24hr, apart from the iMacs which are 1-2.

Has it been like this for a while already? Is this because of shortages, or is it a sign?

Evangelion
Aug 29, 2006, 03:47 AM
Now mind you, I say this as an investor, not as an enthusiast.

Is it just me, or is going public the WORST thing a company could do? When they do that, they get these crybabies who whine "I'm an INVESTOR and I DEMAND immediate results! I insist on my short-term ROI that you deliver! Don't you realize that I have invested xxxxx dollars in your company, therefore you owe me big time!".

Well boo-frigging-hoo!

Machead III
Aug 29, 2006, 03:56 AM
Going public has other dimensions. There's more to business than the consumer and executive/investor ends. Going public allows people to force coporations to act in outside interests, otherwise it's just a private tyranny.

Investors are the kinds of people that can force Apple to resolve the iPod City scandal in workers favors, even if it doesn't pose financial benefits for Apple itself.

The problem is, the investors are usually stinking rich capitalistas anyway, and they'd rather resolve it in Apple's financial favor in order to harvest a couple more pennies from poor, miserable Chinese workers so they can slap it on their already monstrous monthly bank balance.

So much for morality :/

Balli
Aug 29, 2006, 04:17 AM
I just bought my iMac before Apple went Intel, so i have no plans to upgrade just yet. I will probably hold out until summer 2008 and then get a MacBook Pro with the following specs:

17" Screen (1920 x 1200)
3.0 Ghz Dual Core Processor (Santa Rosa)
2 GB RAM
512 MB Graphics Card
250 GB Hard Drive (Perpendicular)
HD-DVD or Blue-Ray Drive

Machead III
Aug 29, 2006, 04:31 AM
I imagine Santa Rosa would be long gone by summer '08.

Evangelion
Aug 29, 2006, 04:35 AM
Going public has other dimensions. There's more to business than the consumer and executive/investor ends. Going public allows people to force coporations to act in outside interests, otherwise it's just a private tyranny.

You make it sound like companies have an obligation of going public. And what you may say MIGHT be true, you are also forgetting that most of the crummy companies in existence are public. Enron was public, Microsoft is public, Exxon is public, Chiquita is public. The list goes on. And you are forgetting that while in theory investors might force changes in the company, usually they don't. Only time they force changes are when the company is not delivering "enough" ROI for the investors. Investors are the primary reason why we have "quarter-capitalism", where long-term benefits are sacrificed for short-term profits.

Foggy
Aug 29, 2006, 04:45 AM
Am hoping they release some mbp info today. I was waiting for WWDC, that came and went, I went off on my holidays for a few weeks and came back hoping for an announcement and still nothing. Have been waiting a while to get one but I hate getting something new only to have it upgraded almost immediately afterwards. A laptop needs to last me 3 years so I expect it to go out of date, just not the week after I buy it :p

Machead III
Aug 29, 2006, 05:04 AM
You make it sound like companies have an obligation of going public. And what you may say MIGHT be true, you are also forgetting that most of the crummy companies in existence are public. Enron was public, Microsoft is public, Exxon is public, Chiquita is public. The list goes on. And you are forgetting that while in theory investors might force changes in the company, usually they don't. Only time they force changes are when the company is not delivering "enough" ROI for the investors. Investors are the primary reason why we have "quarter-capitalism", where long-term benefits are sacrificed for short-term profits.

Personally I believe all companies not only have an obligation to go public, but have an obligation to surrender the entire control held by the board of directors to the state which is controled absolutely by the public, thereby allowing for the involvement of interests other than those financial and allowing actual democracy to pervade rather than increasingly fascist corporatocracy.

Not that I think Apple is particularly one of the companies creating that trend, it's fairly good in that regard, and I hope to see them make a real effort to improve conditions in the iPod City.

Microsoft on the other hand, regardless of how piss poor their software is, is notoriously ruthless towards workers, other businesses, even public serivces, and definately contributes to the overall erosion of both democracy and any kind of "Wealth of Nations" free market capitalism that remains the only partially benevolent flavour of said economic system.


It's very true, investors rarely act upon non-financial interests, but occasionally. Still, this is what happens when the only method of interaction with a coroporation is through the buying and selling of stocks and products.

Such is the success of neo-liberalism; it's impossible to express social human concerns with the language of GDP and quarter profits imposed by the unanimous corporate landscape of the modern world.

Personally I'd rather pay a lot more for my Macs, have them updated a lot less often and even suffer decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers were paid enough to sustain themselves and their families in comfortable, suitable housing with enough money left over for an enjoyable life.

Morality over Mhz!

Evangelion
Aug 29, 2006, 05:20 AM
Personally I believe all companies not only have an obligation to go public

Let's just say that I disagree with you 100%. What if you start a small company, should Joe Sixpack down the street have the god-given right to buy shares in your company? If he does, why doesn't he have the right to buy your car if he wants to?

...allowing actual democracy to pervade rather than increasingly fascist corporatocracy.

You do realize that the "fascist corporatocracy" that we have today has been created, maintained and exploited by public corporations?

Personally I'd rather pay a lot more for my Macs, have them updated a lot less often and even suffer decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers were paid enough to sustain themselves and their families in comfortable, suitable housing with enough money left over for an enjoyable life.

What makes you think that they are not being paid enough as it is?

Balli
Aug 29, 2006, 05:34 AM
I imagine Santa Rosa would be long gone by summer '08.

Why? Is Santa Rosa not due out around spring / summer 2007? I am sure it will still be around a year after it is released.

mattsh
Aug 29, 2006, 06:13 AM
After looking around the apple website this morning.. I don't believe that we are getting the new chips until AFTER the iPod rebate offer.. and here is why.

The only legal way Apple could offer the new processor would be to offer it ONLY to out-of-education persons. If you read the fine print of the Apple iPod offer, it ONLY lists the current models (and G4) as acceptable units to use when filing a rebate.... if they were to place the new chip models on the store, it would invalidate the rebate, should someone have the old rebate forms, and a new machine. Just a thought.

POSSIBLY INACCURATE - SEE BELOW POSTS

Machead III
Aug 29, 2006, 06:17 AM
What makes you think that they are not being paid enough as it is?

"...decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers..."

teme
Aug 29, 2006, 06:17 AM
After looking around the apple website this morning.. I don't believe that we are getting the new chips until AFTER the iPod rebate offer.. and here is why.

The only legal way Apple could offer the new processor would be to offer it ONLY to out-of-education persons. If you read the fine print of the Apple iPod offer, it ONLY lists the current models (and G4) as acceptable units to use when filing a rebate.... if they were to place the new chip models on the store, it would invalidate the rebate, should someone have the old rebate forms, and a new machine. Just a thought.

But in Europe this same rebate ends at October 7th, 2006...

Half Glass
Aug 29, 2006, 06:23 AM
After looking around the apple website this morning.. I don't believe that we are getting the new chips until AFTER the iPod rebate offer.. and here is why.

The only legal way Apple could offer the new processor would be to offer it ONLY to out-of-education persons. If you read the fine print of the Apple iPod offer, it ONLY lists the current models (and G4) as acceptable units to use when filing a rebate.... if they were to place the new chip models on the store, it would invalidate the rebate, should someone have the old rebate forms, and a new machine. Just a thought.

As stated earlier in this thread, this is absolutely not true. The MacPros are included in the rebate and they were NOT available when the promotion started. They were added as elgible purchases after release.

Its almost 7:30 EST, and the store is still up. Not a good sign for action today.

--HG

tekmoe
Aug 29, 2006, 06:27 AM
what time were the macbooks released earlier this year?

iMeowbot
Aug 29, 2006, 06:29 AM
If you read the fine print of the Apple iPod offer,
it says "Apple reserves the right to change without notice the Terms and Conditions, modify the offer, or end the offer at any time without notice." So they can add or delete any models they like.

Erasmus
Aug 29, 2006, 06:35 AM
Not in MacBook nor MacBook Pros because they have no socket. You can only upgrade mini and iMac with Merom because only they both have compatible sockets. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure the guy doesn't deserve to be shot down.

It seems to me that by "MB" he did not bean "MacBook" as is the most common use of these two letters, but "Mother Board" which makes perfect sense, covers all Yonah macs and is perfectly true. Disregarding the soldering issue of the 'books, which is a different point.

mattsh
Aug 29, 2006, 06:41 AM
As stated earlier in this thread, this is absolutely not true. The MacPros are included in the rebate and they were NOT available when the promotion started. They were added as elgible purchases after release.

Its almost 7:30 EST, and the store is still up. Not a good sign for action today.

--HG


Ok well I stand corrected then. Keep in mind.. the store doesn't "open" until 8am EST... So we still have 20 minutes :P

ezekielrage_99
Aug 29, 2006, 06:43 AM
If Apple wants to be competitive on a hardware and software basis Apple will have to make sure they release the best possible Intel Processors they can get their hands on. Apple really needs to release Core 2 Duo products by september, they could afford to stockpile chips in the G5 days but now it's Intel and the competition is releasing products with similar specs as Apple.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 29, 2006, 06:51 AM
I'm pretty sure the guy doesn't deserve to be shot down.

It seems to me that by "MB" he did not bean "MacBook" as is the most common use of these two letters, but "Mother Board" which makes perfect sense, covers all Yonah macs and is perfectly true. Disregarding the soldering issue of the 'books, which is a different point.

I'm a convert from the PC mob and whenever I see MB I automatically think of "Main Board" as well.

dib
Aug 29, 2006, 07:18 AM
You upgraded RAM and HD through Apple?


Yes. There are upgrade options on line, with extra discount for ed purchases.

generik
Aug 29, 2006, 07:33 AM
C2D MBPs available for ordering now!

DJMastaWes
Aug 29, 2006, 07:34 AM
C2D MBPs available for ordering now!
Lol.

Store is still up, i don't think today is the day.

generik
Aug 29, 2006, 07:37 AM
Lol.

Store is still up, i don't think today is the day.

What time is it in the Americas now?

DJMastaWes
Aug 29, 2006, 07:39 AM
8:40am Est.

milo
Aug 29, 2006, 07:49 AM
.

BenRoethig
Aug 29, 2006, 08:00 AM
Michael Dell as a PERSON made those comments. Since then he has said that he would sell Mac OS X in a heartbeat. The public doesn't hear those comments. We hear them, but not the general public.

I am talking about messages the general public does see: magazine and TV ads.

Apple's ads are about PCs being bad and Macs being good.

They don't say Dell or HP. But who makes PC's?

I have never seen a PC manufacturer put out an ad that attacks Macs.

When Dell made those comments, Apple was a mess. Has anyone ever actually read the rest if the article for context? Beleive it or not, things actually change in a decade. If Steve Jobs had not taken over when he did, it is likely that the company would have folded. Even then it was touch and go for a couple years. What has changed? Apple has gone from behind in almost every single category to carving out its own niche of the market and releasing new innovative products.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 29, 2006, 08:01 AM
C2D MBPs available for ordering now!

I have just placed my order for a new Macbook Pro with a Core 2 Duo, I can't wait :D

generik
Aug 29, 2006, 08:02 AM
I have just placed my order for a new Macbook Pro with a Core 2 Duo, I can't wait :D
Me too!

sixth
Aug 29, 2006, 08:04 AM
RIGHT...good joke guys...

ezekielrage_99
Aug 29, 2006, 08:06 AM
Me too!

Does your MacBook have a 5-7 day wait? C2D will be sweet :cool:

milo
Aug 29, 2006, 08:06 AM
This logic is flawed because just as they did with the MacPro, they will add the new laptops to the iPod promotion if they are released.

Or more likely they would exempt them to clear out old stock, as they have in previous years. The mac pro was released well before the end of the promotion, and was replacing a machine that was way overdue and likely barely selling. The macbook and mbp are still selling well and the promo is almost over, I'd say chances of adding it to the promo are slim to none.

Completely agree that the rebate tells us nothing about release dates.

This was one of the things I was afraid would happen with the Intel switch--a new processor every eight minutes. At least with the PPCs, there were predictable, manageable gaps between bumps.

What hasn't been predictable about this? People have known about this for months, no real surprises here. I'm ecstatic that upgrades are happening this quickly, it's something all mac users should be excited about.

cfanyc
Aug 29, 2006, 08:12 AM
another tuesday bites the dust.. oh well...

deputy_doofy
Aug 29, 2006, 08:18 AM
Apple is going to have a serious backlog of orders, I think. I know I'm buying the upcoming MBP. This waiting does suck, though.
However, I have seen Apple release products silently on Monday, Tuesday, AND Wednesday, so there's a possibility, albeit extremely slight, that we could see something tomorrow. Next week looks more likely. :|

mkjellman
Aug 29, 2006, 08:22 AM
nice apple, common i really need a new computer, i feel like the original powerbook g4 al waiting game all over again!

fastlane1588
Aug 29, 2006, 08:36 AM
great, nothing....

HecubusPro
Aug 29, 2006, 08:39 AM
Shipping date on the 1.83Ghz White MB is 5-7 days. On the rest of the MBs it's 3-5.

All other comps are 24hr, apart from the iMacs which are 1-2.

Has it been like this for a while already? Is this because of shortages, or is it a sign?

It has been stated in a news report (not a rumor) that the reason macbooks are shipping late is because apple is having difficulty maintaining demand during the busy back-to-school/college/uni season.

AidenShaw
Aug 29, 2006, 09:20 AM
http://www.engadget.com/tag/core2duo

HecubusPro
Aug 29, 2006, 09:44 AM
Personally I'd rather pay a lot more for my Macs, have them updated a lot less often and even suffer decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers were paid enough to sustain themselves and their families in comfortable, suitable housing with enough money left over for an enjoyable life.

Morality over Mhz!

This isn't necessarily leveled squarely at Machhead III, and this is more suggestion than anything, but I cannot stress this enough--if you have any issues with the way the items you purchase, consume, use, etc. are produced, do not buy those items. If you know that your mac, your car, your TV, your food, or anything else you purchase are brought to you on the backs of cheap or illegal labor, refrain from buying those products. Protest with your dollars.

After you've excersised your consumer right to not buy those goods, then do what you feel is right to bring awareness to those who continue to buy those products. Write your politician. Picket the corporations who uses cheap and/or illegal labor, start an awareness website and campaign, do whatever you feel you need to do in order to make others aware of the atrocities being done to the less fortunates so that the rest of world can have those nice products at a cheap price. Remeber, it starts with one person.

Keep in mind that this is just my opinion being stated without anger or irritation, but what you shouldn't do is buy those products anyway, then proselytize to the rest of us how evil the rest of the world is for using a cheap Chinese, Latin American, Indian, whatever, workforce. Then additionally implicate those who buy those products into the same evil sphere as those who produce the goods in the first place.

Sure, this makes you out to be a major hypocrite of the worst kind (consumer hypocrites are some of the most detestable out there), but that's not really the central downside to conducting yourself in such a manner. I mean, we're all hypocrites, whether we want to admit it or not.

What this really does is shine a bright light onto how incredibly pretentious you truly are.

Just a public service announcement.:) Sorry if I came off too condescending.