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View Full Version : A crisis of faith in Apple


shakespeare
Mar 25, 2003, 05:24 AM
Okay, guys, help me out here. I'm having a crisis of faith in Apple.

I've had some bad experiences lately with my Macs' performance. I've recently started working at a new graphic design shop, and there are some high-end Macs, and some high-end Gateways. When it comes to handling huge tasks like distilling PS files, the Gateways are six (or so) times faster. They're really marvellously fast. And our Macs - not so much. They're slow with the big tasks, and it often feels like they get confused with the little ones - periodically whilst switching pages in a big InDesign document, for instance, my Mac has to stop and think for a long time, and it gives me a lot of redraw problems. The Gateways just don't; they're right with me the whole time.

There's nothing wrong with the Quicksilvers - they're fresh, loaded with RAM, and have DPs -but I feel like big tasks really put a strain on them, whereas the Gateways seem to handle everything without stopping for breath. And I'm even getting to like Windows XP. There are a lot of little niceties in it that OS X just doesn't have. When I'm filling a folder full of images for a project, for instance, it 'senses' that this is an image folder, without my saying so, and reacts according me, giving me a pane of templates and icons and a preview pane. And it allows me, very easily, to change this setting so that it treats it like a regular folder.

So using these Gateways has got me thinking: why the hell am I loyal to Apple?

I adore Macs, I hate Microsoft, I love being a 'Mac person', and I think Macs are gorgeous, but I'm starting to wonder if they aren't really impractical. Maybe a PowerBook can handle my personal life, but it seems like a good Sony or Gateway tower is the sort of thing I want to entrust my professional life to.

I'm actually considering switching my bureau to what I used to call 'the dark side'. If I'm making a big mistake, straighten me out, won't you?

benixau
Mar 25, 2003, 05:34 AM
alas -

what can we say? you have been tempted. Your QS machines dont have DDR. Nor do they have the ummmmm yeah.

look, apple and the entire community knows there is a speed issue right now. We are all hoping, no not hoping - preying - 5 times a day - that apple wil use the 970 as soon as it becomes available.

without it i think i will end up too having to take the pb/sony route. BTW gateway is renound for having bad customer service - more so than the rest of the wintel community

Megaquad
Mar 25, 2003, 07:35 AM
When some company has both PC and Mac versions of software, Mac version has multiple times lower market share, that is why they dont give a **** how they port applications.
They are slow and unoptimized. Altivec and dual processors are being wasted.

iJon
Mar 25, 2003, 08:17 AM
well if you do switch dont get a gateway, they probably wont be around next year to fix your machine when it breaks.

iJon

Computer_Phreak
Mar 25, 2003, 09:25 AM
I'd say go with the PC's for your professional needs for now.

Wait until the 970 comes and matures, then your PC's will feel like your past macs!

shakespeare
Mar 25, 2003, 09:34 AM
I'm glad you guys didn't curse me out for thinking this way. I rather thought you would - I was cursing myself out in my head.

Still, I'm a little sad that there's no case for the Mac, which has long been my home.

Sony it is for a little while then. I will keep a close eye on Apple's activities, I will still hang out here, and I will buy myself a new 17-incher, all the while waiting anxiously for the day when I can have a beautiful fast new Power Mac at the office.

Thanks, guys.

howard
Mar 25, 2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by iJon
well if you do switch dont get a gateway, they probably wont be around next year to fix your machine when it breaks.

iJon

i totally agree on this one


also. if your liking a pc better buy one. computers arn't a religion. and there not people. they don't really care what you think. if you like one better than get that one.

though i also agree what was mentioned before...everyone knows apples have been slow lately, we're just hopeing for the best with the 970

NavyIntel007
Mar 25, 2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by iJon
well if you do switch dont get a gateway, they probably wont be around next year to fix your machine when it breaks.

iJon

HAHAHAH true true

TEG
Mar 25, 2003, 10:27 AM
All I have to say is...

Everyone feels this way in a mixed environment. This is because people fun scandisk and defrag on the PCs, where as people don't often run disk utility and fix permissions. If they did, there wouldn't be a problem. And don't be fooled by stupid features, look at the real substance of the machine. Most often the problem incountered in this situation is RAM and HD Speed.

Now I am speaking from experience, I owned a PC (4 infact) from 1989 to 2001. I went through Windows (3.0 - 2K), mastered it, and found it laking in what I want in an OS. Everything I do on my TiBook is fast, stable, and runs circles around most PCs. I've been with friends who, although their machine refreshes pages in Pagemaker and InDesign, a little faster than my machine, I kick them to the curb with the power of a single 500Mhz. G4, and they are running P4 1.6s and Athlon 1800+s. The tasks that are "non important" go just a little faster on a PC, but the "important" and "intensive" tasks, go much faster on a Mac.

The Style is only a side note, a large side note, but is not the reason to buy/keep Mac. Pure Power, when needed is!


(These Coments are Brought to You by TEG... Switcher before the Switchers)

TEG

nuckinfutz
Mar 25, 2003, 10:29 AM
Man I wouldn't tough Gateway with a 10ft pole right now.

They're on their THIRD reorg :eek:


http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=1880


I haven't lost any faith. We already have the superior OS and soon our Hardware will erase any gaps.

A DP 2.3Ghz PPC 970 Mac would blow anything Intel has out the water. Er well any P4 system. Xeons are another story.

timbloom
Mar 25, 2003, 10:53 AM
There is always a best tool for the job. If you don't need a mac doing this task, simple answer: dont use one there. There are also places where using a PC just is not the best choice.

I have personally found that I randomly become extremely violent when encountered with a problem on a windows machine that a mac just does not have. I easily break installs of windows after less than 24 hours of installing them without even installing software. Windows hates me, and I hate it back. That is why I use a mac, among many other reasons.

GeneR
Mar 25, 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by shakespeare
Okay, guys, help me out here. I'm having a crisis of faith in Apple.

I've had some bad experiences lately with my Macs' performance. I've recently started working at a new graphic design shop, and there are some high-end Macs, and some high-end Gateways. When it comes to handling huge tasks like distilling PS files, the Gateways are six (or so) times faster. They're really marvellously fast. And our Macs - not so much. They're slow with the big tasks, and it often feels like they get confused with the little ones - periodically whilst switching pages in a big InDesign document, for instance, my Mac has to stop and think for a long time, and it gives me a lot of redraw problems. The Gateways just don't; they're right with me the whole time.

There's nothing wrong with the Quicksilvers - they're fresh, loaded with RAM, and have DPs -but I feel like big tasks really put a strain on them, whereas the Gateways seem to handle everything without stopping for breath. And I'm even getting to like Windows XP. There are a lot of little niceties in it that OS X just doesn't have. When I'm filling a folder full of images for a project, for instance, it 'senses' that this is an image folder, without my saying so, and reacts according me, giving me a pane of templates and icons and a preview pane. And it allows me, very easily, to change this setting so that it treats it like a regular folder.

So using these Gateways has got me thinking: why the hell am I loyal to Apple?

I adore Macs, I hate Microsoft, I love being a 'Mac person', and I think Macs are gorgeous, but I'm starting to wonder if they aren't really impractical. Maybe a PowerBook can handle my personal life, but it seems like a good Sony or Gateway tower is the sort of thing I want to entrust my professional life to.

I'm actually considering switching my bureau to what I used to call 'the dark side'. If I'm making a big mistake, straighten me out, won't you?

If you can wait until the 970s and use the Gateways for the time being do it. If you can't and it's essential to have the speed and you need your own machine, get a PC. Don't worry about how other people feel on this board: you're the one who has to live with your own workload.

Personally, I've been waiting for the 970s and can probably afford to do so. I'm loyal to Apple but not so loyal as to be stupid about time constraints. If they can't get the chip to market in the time you need it, then screw it, go for the PC.

And remember that as much as people will be sympathetic to your wavering, when you sign offline, most of us will probably forget about this thread and go on our merry way while you are stuck with your own choice. In a few days or weeks, who will remember this post except you?

Don't want to sound harsh or brutal. But time IS money. Best of luck. Hope you can afford to wait for the 970's though.

shakespeare
Mar 25, 2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by GeneR
If you can wait until the 970s and use the Gateways for the time being do it. If you can't and it's essential to have the speed and you need your own machine, get a PC. Don't worry about how other people feel on this board: you're the one who has to live with your own workload.

Personally, I've been waiting for the 970s and can probably afford to do so. I'm loyal to Apple but not so loyal as to be stupid about time constraints. If they can't get the chip to market in the time you need it, then screw it, go for the PC.

And remember that as much as people will be sympathetic to your wavering, when you sign offline, most of us will probably forget about this thread and go on our merry way while you are stuck with your own choice. In a few days or weeks, who will remember this post except you?

Don't want to sound harsh or brutal. But time IS money. Best of luck. Hope you can afford to wait for the 970's though.

Aw, hell, trust me, I do not obsess over what you guys say; it's just that I knew that if there were a compelling reason for me not to switch, you guys would remind me of it.

MacsRgr8
Mar 25, 2003, 04:56 PM
Just look at them.
Close your eyes, wait for about 10 seconds..... and open them.
Now which one do you prefer?
Remember, this performance issue is only temporary. Don't let it ruin your life.

macphoria
Mar 25, 2003, 11:38 PM
I feel your pain shakespeare. Through endless development and competition, PC's do outperform Macs and that is a fact. And although I still believe Mac OS is still superior to Windows, while you are in other software environment, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, or what have you, it is virtually identical between Mac version of software and PC's. And you don't think about the OS running behind it, only the performance of the software you are using.

I myself sometimes think about switching over to the dark side. What holds me back is the promise of next generation of G5/970 as well as new softwares that Apple has started to churn out, iMovie, iTunes, Safari, Final Cut Pro and etc. But in professional environment those aren't the essentials, maybe except for Final Cut Pro. Large chunk of design business relies on softwares from Adobe, Macromedia and perhaps QuarkXpress. It is performance of these softwares that matter in the business. If someone were to offer me PC version of softwares for my entire software collection, I would seriously be tempted join forces with the dark side. After all, it does not matter what tool you use, as long as you get the job done.

This could very well change when Apple adopts new IBM 970 processor. It promises tremendous performance advantage over previous Macs and it appears to be worth waiting for. If you are considering switching, I would wait. Apple has always been the innovator in computer market and what they bring this year could turn things around. If it does not, the evil one will always be there offering his hand while you are dangling on the edge.

schwinn
Mar 26, 2003, 12:31 AM
It's interesting to run across this at this time, as I need to add a workstation here and it's getting very difficult to justify adding another Mac. I really don't want to go over to the 'dark side'... but I also don't want to be ... well... stupid. There're some simple truths that most Mac loyalists seem to want to ignore -- Macs are too slow and the OSX, though full of promise, is still not 'there' yet so how can one justify spending such a premium price given those realities.

So why wait for a fast, stable machine that one can be productive with now... and that's affordable, too?

Jaykay
Mar 26, 2003, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Megaquad

They are slow and unoptimized. Altivec and dual processors are being wasted.

Isnt he talking about mostly Adobe apps which are both Altivec optimized and DP ready (one of the few though)?

Dont Hurt Me
Mar 26, 2003, 07:40 AM
You look at this thread and apple still insists that its g4 powermac is the ticket. Us Mac devotees know the truth but i guess apple wants to pretend it does. I hate to say it but consumer Wintel machines are kicking the crap out of the powermacs. if you look at photo manipulation,games or just number crunching the P4 has ran past the g4. I know spec scores arent perfect but i saw the top g4 was getting like half of what the top p4 was. If Apple doesnt have a crash program to get the 970 to market in all of their machines then they are blind to the fact that everyone wants fast computers. The professional and the consumer. a 970 powermac would be what they need but also a( low end 970) imac is needed to. A 1gig or 1.2 gig imac will be smoked by a 2.4 or 2.6 p4 Wintel. To me it is simple, stop holding back lines and stop competing withyourself apple. Your in business to sell computers so use highend 970's in the pro line and slower 970's in the consumer lines and do it as soon as you can.

yzedf
Mar 26, 2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Just look at them.
Close your eyes, wait for about 10 seconds..... and open them.
Now which one do you prefer?
Remember, this performance issue is only temporary. Don't let it ruin your life.
At home, or for a toy; yes.

At work, where time is money; NO.

Windows sells so damn good because it was adopted in the workplace first. People got used to it, and bought them for their home machine. Apple was too busy trying to convert those that don't make the spending decisions; students.

Performance will cause people to use Apple as a choice at work. Work computers are similar to most peoples home computers. Use what you know.