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MacBytes
Aug 31, 2006, 11:54 AM
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Category: Apple Services
Link: Wal-Mart and Apple Battle for Turf (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060831125412)
Description:: A Businessweek article on Wal-Mart's fear of the supposed upcoming Apple iTunes Movie Store.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

dsnort
Aug 31, 2006, 12:07 PM
Despite their protestations, I would not for a moment doubt that WalMart is twisting every arm they can lay ahold of. This just goes to illustrate the danger of allowing any company to become too large. They abuse their power for their advantage regardless of the impact on the consumer.

shadowfax
Aug 31, 2006, 01:33 PM
Despite their protestations, I would not for a moment doubt that WalMart is twisting every arm they can lay ahold of. This just goes to illustrate the danger of allowing any company to become too large. They abuse their power for their advantage regardless of the impact on the consumer.at least they're decent capitalists--they get the best prices for their customers, even if they have to screw their vendors. This is better than MS, who seem to screw everyone they can in every possible way.

Wal-Mart is an influential company, and I have no problem with them using that influence to the advantage of their patrons and their shareholders.

Spock
Aug 31, 2006, 01:37 PM
Wal-Mart needs to go, its time for a change. It seems they control everything
and what do they think will happen if Disney or Apple pull things off Wal-Marts shelf? Look at what happened with Vlassic and the huge jar of pickles for like $3? Wal-Mart is the biggest reasons for outsourcing What would the world be without Wal-Mart?? Better

CTYankee
Aug 31, 2006, 01:50 PM
Despite their protestations, I would not for a moment doubt that WalMart is twisting every arm they can lay ahold of. This just goes to illustrate the danger of allowing any company to become too large. They abuse their power for their advantage regardless of the impact on the consumer.

Or their employees...but thats another matter.

Walmart is just out for WalMart. I can remember at my old job (for a huge company that sells its wares in Walmart and is probably one of their largest customers) we would have great products that the consumers would never see...why? WalMart said they would not sell enough of them or at a high enough margin. So they sit on shelves in labs to this day. They are a huge hit internally, have great consumer testing scores, and developers were often making batches on the side to give to fellow employees. Yet the projects get killed because someone in Arkansas didn't think it was a good idea. Simply put, if WalMart won't sell it no one else gets a chance to. Thats how things work in the consumer care market (shower, bath, hair products). WalMart is king. You better do what they say or your business will suffer badly.

CTYankee
Aug 31, 2006, 01:50 PM
Look at what happened with Vlassic and the huge jar of pickles for like $3?

huh?

Spock
Aug 31, 2006, 02:02 PM
huh?

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

I worked at Wal-Mart for 3 days. Your just a number and nothing more.

bousozoku
Aug 31, 2006, 02:31 PM
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

I worked at Wal-Mart for 3 days. Your just a number and nothing more.

You're just a number at any retailer with more than 5 employees.

I'm not saying that Wal-Mart does a better job. I would imagine that they don't but it might surprise you to know that Bloomingdales and Macy's don't treat their employees all that well, either, despite their pricing. Retail can be brutal.

I think Wal-Mart has a lot to fear from Apple because Apple gives something more than the absolute lowest cost. They've built a business that is about desire. No purchase having to do with the iTunes Music (or Video) Store is a need and Wal-Mart is all about needs. You need juice and milk and bread and clothes, but you don't need electronic music and they don't know how to deal with that.

D-rock
Aug 31, 2006, 06:57 PM
I really hope Apple pulls the rug out from under WalMaArt on this one. Please, Steve, have something great up your sleeve :cool:

I used to work for an agency that dealt with a lot of WalMart business.... and basically, just about every reason for hating them is justified. WalMart's entire campaign is built around the idea of "saving the average Joe some hard-earned cash." Nothing could be further from the truth. All they care about is making the most money possible in as many categories as possible, regardless of how much they screw up our economy in the process. The problem is there are plenty of people in this country who would rather save 5 cents on toothpaste than stop to consider the economic impacts WalMart is creating.

Not that I think Apple is perfect (no company is) but I do hope Apple wins this round. More availability and more diversity for the consumer is a good thing. Having one behemoth company deciding everything we buy is a very, very bad thing.

benthewraith
Aug 31, 2006, 07:41 PM
"dissuading studios from conducting business with other providers,"

Isn't there a word for the sort of business practice this would result from...oh yes, monopoly. :rolleyes:

benthewraith
Aug 31, 2006, 07:43 PM
I really hope Apple pulls the rug out from under WalMaArt on this one. Please, Steve, have something great up your sleeve :cool:

I used to work for an agency that dealt with a lot of WalMart business.... and basically, just about every reason for hating them is justified. WalMart's entire campaign is built around the idea of "saving the average Joe some hard-earned cash." Nothing could be further from the truth. All they care about is making the most money possible in as many categories as possible, regardless of how much they screw up our economy in the process. The problem is there are plenty of people in this country who would rather save 5 cents on toothpaste than stop to consider the economic impacts WalMart is creating.

Not that I think Apple is perfect (no company is) but I do hope Apple wins this round. More availability and more diversity for the consumer is a good thing. Having one behemoth company deciding everything we buy is a very, very bad thing.

That's on the very tip of the iceberg. WalMart basically wants to enslave the masses by destroying mom and pop shops by invading towns that otherwise would shop at family owned businesses. One must ask what a small town like Green Cove Springs would need with a Walmart. :confused:

halhiker
Aug 31, 2006, 09:40 PM
According to this article, Walmart sells Macs. I have to think that's an error on the part of the reporter. I have never seen a Mac at Walmart although I bought my last iPod there.

I usually don't go to Walmart, but I was fighting insomnia and I needed some cookies. It was about 2 a.m. with nothing else open but Circle K, I decided to go to WM. I walked by the case with iPod's and saw an open box special, a 1gb iPod Nano for $75.00. I asked to sales guy if I could see it, all the parts were there so I bought it. I brought it staight home, plugged it in and it worked perfectly. Since I forgot about the cookies, I decided to have a bowl of cereal instead. After loading my new Nano with songs, I slept like a baby.

I highly doubt WM carries Macs but if they did, I might have to go there in hope of getting one at half off. I just wouldn't expect anyone to help me or to know anything about them. Customer Service at Walmart is awful (that's why I rarely shop there) but "you get what you pay for". And getting the Low Price cost more than it's worth most of the time.

macnulty
Aug 31, 2006, 10:42 PM
I've got to say some of you people are totally neurotic about Walmart, if you haven't noticed we live in a free society. No-one is forced to shop at Walmart, Walmart would not exsist without the free choice of an American consumer. Why are you so anxiuos to limit that choice? Where else would like to limit choice?

solvs
Aug 31, 2006, 10:56 PM
I don't shop at Walmart. I know they're all greedy corporations, and I have to shop somewhere, and I do like low prices... but I just can't shop there. Unfortunately, sometimes that's all people have in their towns, so they don't really have a choice.

D-rock
Aug 31, 2006, 11:07 PM
I've got to say some of you people are totally neurotic about Walmart, if you haven't noticed we live in a free society. No-one is forced to shop at Walmart, Walmart would not exsist without the free choice of an American consumer. Why are you so anxiuos to limit that choice? Where else would like to limit choice?

Huh? :confused: I think you're completely missing the point. A monopoly by definition is going to be more limiting to the consumer... and yet you accuse those disagreeing with that monopoly of wanting to "limit choice?"

Did you even read the article? WalMart is trying to persuade movie studios to not go along with Apple's plans to sell movies. How is that NOT limiting choice? When WalMart moves into a small town and forces the local shops to close, how is that giving consumers a choice? When WalMart dictates what products are worthy to be produced, how is that giving choice to the consumer?

macnulty
Sep 2, 2006, 08:47 PM
Huh? :confused: I think you're completely missing the point. A monopoly by definition is going to be more limiting to the consumer... and yet you accuse those disagreeing with that monopoly of wanting to "limit choice?"

Did you even read the article? WalMart is trying to persuade movie studios to not go along with Apple's plans to sell movies. How is that NOT limiting choice? When WalMart moves into a small town and forces the local shops to close, how is that giving consumers a choice? When WalMart dictates what products are worthy to be produced, how is that giving choice to the consumer?

By any definition of the word, Wal-Mart is not a monopoly. Secondly most small businesses in most areas with a Wal-Mart do not go out of business at a rate any higher then in non-WalMart areas. It is a fact of life that any given entrepreneur will go out of business 2 to 3 times before giving up or succeeding. To be-labor the point, those small businesses that do go out of business do so because their customer CHOSE to go somewhere else. What is hard about that concept?

clayj
Sep 2, 2006, 09:02 PM
Wal-Mart sucks.

And if you shop there (even though you have other options), then you suck, too.

If I am bleeding to death from the massive head wound I just received, I'd rather die than be bandaged with a bandage bought in a Wal-Mart. That's how much I hate them.

dsnort
Sep 2, 2006, 09:51 PM
I really hope Apple pulls the rug out from under WalMaArt on this one. Please, Steve, have something great up your sleeve :cool:

I used to work for an agency that dealt with a lot of WalMart business.... and basically, just about every reason for hating them is justified. WalMart's entire campaign is built around the idea of "saving the average Joe some hard-earned cash." Nothing could be further from the truth. All they care about is making the most money possible in as many categories as possible, regardless of how much they screw up our economy in the process. The problem is there are plenty of people in this country who would rather save 5 cents on toothpaste than stop to consider the economic impacts WalMart is creating.

Not that I think Apple is perfect (no company is) but I do hope Apple wins this round. More availability and more diversity for the consumer is a good thing. Having one behemoth company deciding everything we buy is a very, very bad thing.

Agree totally. Walmart is BAD for America! ( America is shopping itself into unemployment!)

I've got to say some of you people are totally neurotic about Heroin, if you haven't noticed we live in a free society. No-one is forced to Use Heroin, Herion would not exsist without the free choice of an American consumer. Why are you so anxiuos to limit that choice? Where else would like to limit choice

Amazing how changing one noun puts a new light on things, isn't it?

macnulty
Sep 3, 2006, 10:42 AM
Agree totally. Walmart is BAD for America! ( America is shopping itself into unemployment!)



Amazing how changing one noun puts a new light on things, isn't it?

Um, I think drugs should be legalized, you need to do better.

dsnort
Sep 3, 2006, 11:21 AM
Um, I think drugs should be legalized, you need to do better.

Hmmm, you seem to have missed my point, maybe I didn't state it very well. Walmarts incessant drive for lower prices is a not inconsiderable factor in the outsourcing of American manufacturing jobs as relates to consumer products. There are many examples of this cited on this thread.

As for legalizing drugs, well, you are entitled to your opinion. But I will state unequivacobly that you will never,ever, ever get me to agree with you in the slightest on that. I have had too many personal examples of friends, family, and coworkers who have flushed their lives down the toilet with narcotics. And not just their lives down the drain, but often their family and loved ones go with them. IMO if you think drugs should be legalized, then "you need to do better".

IJ Reilly
Sep 3, 2006, 11:39 AM
If you subscribe to the theory that any result produced in the economy is by definition optimal, then Wal-Mart is a great company, because they have produced results. If you stop to consider the secondary impacts of their success, then the verdict is going to be very different. Monopoly is an overused and abused word, and not the right one for this situation. If Wal-Mart can successfully use its market power to prevent a company from competing with it, then this is almost by definition a Sherman Antitrust Act issue. By law, companies are not allowed to restrain trade.

D-rock
Sep 3, 2006, 02:58 PM
Monopoly is an overused and abused word, and not the right one for this situation. If Wal-Mart can successfully use its market power to prevent a company from competing with it, then this is almost by definition a Sherman Antitrust Act issue. By law, companies are not allowed to restrain trade.

Agreed, and my bad for throwing around an overused term. However, WalMart does actually show characteristics of an efficiency monopoly, so calling it a monopoly isn't entirely inaccurate. (To paraphrase the definition, an efficiency monopoly is when a company is able to be profitable at such a low cost that competition could not match that cost and still be profitable.)

As an ironic side note, when one hears "monopoly" on an Apple forum, I doubt the first thing that comes to people's minds is WalMart... :p

D-rock
Sep 3, 2006, 03:01 PM
@macnulty: In an effort to keep this closer to the topic, I will ask again, did you read the article? WalMart is trying to coerce studios into making sure Apple's movie download venture never succeeds. And once again I will ask... how can you say that's not limiting consumer choice? If WalMart could, they would love to control 100% of media distribution. Do you want that? Sounds pretty limiting to me!

I see no point in arguing with you about whether or not WalMart is bad for our society... besides not really being the point of this thread, several people have posted first-hand experiences dealing with the WalMart corporation... and you have not. The best you can do is to call us "neurotic." I'm sorry... I was unaware that basing an opinion on facts and first-hand experience made one "neurotic."

I will say this, however... your argument that WalMart is harmless because people chose to shop there means nothing. All that tells me is there are a lot of people who do things without thinking/caring about the long-term effects. And sure, I'm one of those people too... we all do it, it's human nature. The point being, using that as an argument proves nothing about the negative impact a company is having on our society.

IJ Reilly
Sep 3, 2006, 06:18 PM
If WalMart could, they would love to control 100% of media distribution. Do you want that? Sounds pretty limiting to me!

Just as a point of clarification, every company wants control of something. It's what they do with control when and if they get it that matters. Apple for example probably has enough control over the downloadable music market to lean on the music industry in ways that would make life very difficult for anyone else to sell music downloads. If Apple were to do this, and more importantly if they succeeded, then you can bet they would be slapped with Sherman Act violations. It isn't illegal to have this sort of market power, let alone to desire it -- it's illegal to use it to restrain trade.

I'm not really certain restraining trade is what Wal-Mart is trying to do here; at the very least, they are aware of the potential consequences of appearing to do so. Notice how carefully they say that they aren't "dissuading studios from conducting business with other providers." The difference may be between what they are saying and what they are doing. Apple isn't going to roll over, you can be sure -- so we'll see.