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jelloshotsrule
Mar 27, 2003, 08:15 AM
this is kinda disturbing. though i guess not surprising

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/26/sprj.irq.mural/index.html

pseudobrit
Mar 27, 2003, 08:34 AM
Yeah, but who painted it; was it praising the attacks or in memory of those lost... you never really know, but the media went right ahead and put the spin on it.

So now we are justified *that much more* in the war because they hate us and are glad the 9/11 attacks happened? No #$&, they hate us! There's a billion of 'em that hate us.

WinterMute
Mar 27, 2003, 08:36 AM
"causing a bit of a stir" Understatement of the year.

It's really not surprising that the Iraqi regime would celebrate any strike against it's perceived enemies, including the 9/11 outrages. Any avenue for making political capital is considered open and fair, the West is, after all, the pit of hell:p

NavyIntel007
Mar 27, 2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Yeah, but who painted it; was it praising the attacks or in memory of those lost... you never really know, but the media went right ahead and put the spin on it.

So now we are justified *that much more* in the war because they hate us and are glad the 9/11 attacks happened? No #$&, they hate us! There's a billion of 'em that hate us.

I really doubt it's cause they are mourning the dead.

By the way they should hate themselves... read...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82310,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/27/sprj.irq.pows.executed/index.html

Yeah, yeah dog foxnews all you want, but Reuters is starting to sound like al-jazeera.

e-coli
Mar 27, 2003, 08:56 AM
jeeez...now why on earth would they hate us? :rolleyes:

pseudobrit
Mar 27, 2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I really doubt it's cause they are mourning the dead.

By the way they should hate themselves... read...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82310,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/27/sprj.irq.pows.executed/index.html

Yeah, yeah dog foxnews all you want, but Reuters is starting to sound like al-jazeera.

Both those reports are uninvestigated beyond what the Pentagon story was.

So, CNN and FOX in this case are once again reduced to nothing more than a puppet organ of the Pentagon.

RIP -- Investigative journalism

NavyIntel007
Mar 27, 2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Both those reports are uninvestigated beyond what the Pentagon story was.

So, CNN and FOX in this case are once again reduced to nothing more than a puppet organ of the Pentagon.

RIP -- Investigative journalism

You assume that the pentagon has no viable information?

How are the iraqi POW's being treated?

How are civilian's in the US treated?

The fact is this stuff doesn't surprise anyone but you seem to think that the US government has no credit. I really don't see how we've lost any in this situation that one would believe what they hear on al-jazeera and news out of bagdad.

Mr. Anderson
Mar 27, 2003, 09:12 AM
The news we get is what's been provided for us at press conferences with the General staff. There still is Investigative Reporting, we're just not going to see much of it here.

All of this is sad though, I hope we can get this over soon.

D

jelloshotsrule
Mar 27, 2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I really doubt it's cause they are mourning the dead.


right, because all muslims are killing beasts, right?

have you spoken with a lot of iraqis about the attacks? or are you just going on your generalizations and stereotypes? hmmm. let me guess which it is...

also, no one is saying that the iraqis are treating our pow's well or that they shouldn't be punished. but that doesn't make what we are doing any more right

how can you not see that standards are standards and should apply to everyone... not just "oh, well... uhh... we're not as bad as them at least!"

we should strive for perfection and when we fall short, at least we will know we tried. and we will try harder

macfan
Mar 27, 2003, 12:13 PM
The state-owned Al-Iktisadi newspaper covered its front page with a photograph of a burning World Trade Center tower with a headline: "God's punishment."

Maybe NavyIntel007 read the Iraqi newspaper back on September 11.

jelloshotsrule
Mar 27, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by macfan
Maybe NavyIntel007 read the Iraqi newspaper back on September 11.

or maybe not EVERYONE in iraq feels that way... oh no, that wouldn't work cause then you couldn't paint them with your broad stroked brush

don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be surprised if that mural was for a negative reason

but let's not use our own nationalism to start assuming we know all without checking into things

macfan
Mar 27, 2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
or maybe not EVERYONE in iraq feels that way... oh no, that wouldn't work cause then you couldn't paint them with your broad stroked brush

don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be surprised if that mural was for a negative reason

but let's not use our own nationalism to start assuming we know all without checking into things

jelloshotsrule,
It is interesting to me that some people will bend over backwards to give every benefit of the the doubt to the Iraqi government, while jumping at every opportunity to assume the worst about the US government and paint any US actions with a very broad and negative brush.

jelloshotsrule
Mar 27, 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by macfan
jelloshotsrule,
It is interesting to me that some people will bend over backwards to give every benefit of the the doubt to the Iraqi government, while jumping at every opportunity to assume the worst about the US government and paint any US actions with a very broad and negative brush.

i'm not talking about the gov't, i'm talking about the people.

does the gov't necessarily represent the people? was this mural necessarily painted by the gov't?

the us gov't doesn't always represent me, or many others. and i would assume that by claiming to want to "liberate" the iraqis, you'd agree that the iraqi gov't doesn't always represent their people eh?

agreenster
Mar 27, 2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet

All of this is sad though, I hope we can get this over soon.

D

All of this hatred and war is so discouraging. What are we ultimately fighting over anyway? Fear, hatred, jealousy. Its so sad.

tcolling
Mar 27, 2003, 02:35 PM
Are you guys kidding me? Can anyone actually imagine that the mural was depicted out of respect for the dead? It was found in a military headquarters of a country run by Saddam Hussein, for crying out loud.

Do you think the US would be "honoring" the dead Japanese with a nicely framed photo of the nuclear explosion bestowed upon Hiroshima in Colin Powell's office? Do you think the Japanese would consider that anything but a disgrace? Get real. That mural is a rallying cry of an evil man.

And for anyone who may think that Americans are anti-Muslim people, anti-Muslim religion, or anti-Muslim anything, I say get off the horse you think you're riding on. When we talk about the war, and who we are going after, it is Saddam Hussein, and those who support him. Please don't take statements made against the Iraqi "government" as statements made about the citizens of Iraq, or Muslims. That's a very dangerous and incorrect summarization.

LethalWolfe
Mar 27, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Yeah, but who painted it; was it praising the attacks or in memory of those lost... you never really know, but the media went right ahead and put the spin on it.

So now we are justified *that much more* in the war because they hate us and are glad the 9/11 attacks happened? No #$&, they hate us! There's a billion of 'em that hate us.


Please show me the "media spin" from that link?

Text:
NASIRIYA, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. Marines searching Iraqi military headquarters in this southern city that was the site of intensive fighting came across a mural depicting a plane crashing into a building complex resembling New York's twin towers, a news agency photograph showed Wednesday.

The plane's logo and coloring resembled that of Iraqi Airlines, said Getty Images News Service executive Brian Felber, based in New York.

The photograph, showing two rifle-toting Marines in front of the mural, was shot by staff photographer Joe Raedle, who is accompanying the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force from Task Force Tarawa.

Getty is a news photo agency that distributes about 500 photographs from around the world each day and has 10 staff members embedded with U.S. forces in the Iraq conflict.

Felber said this photo was "causing a bit of a stir."


:rolleyes:


Lethal

taeclee99
Mar 27, 2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by agreenster
All of this hatred and war is so discouraging. What are we ultimately fighting over anyway? Fear, hatred, jealousy. Its so sad.


A wise one once uttered:

Fear is the path of the dark side.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.

Words to live by.

Backtothemac
Mar 28, 2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by taeclee99
A wise one once uttered:

Fear is the path of the dark side.
Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.

Words to live by.

Yea, but a jedi was never affraid to go after someone that was evil. They were never affraid to engage in combat with the enemy without the Senates approval.

Think about that.

Rower_CPU
Mar 28, 2003, 12:22 PM
LOL...Star Wars references. Classic! :D

I thought the Jedi were peace keepers and only used force as a last resort. ;)

macfan
Mar 28, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i'm not talking about the gov't, i'm talking about the people.

does the gov't necessarily represent the people? was this mural necessarily painted by the gov't?

the us gov't doesn't always represent me, or many others. and i would assume that by claiming to want to "liberate" the iraqis, you'd agree that the iraqi gov't doesn't always represent their people eh?

The government in Iraq doesn't represent the people of Iraq. It kills them. It represents Saddam.

The mural was in a military command office. The plane was painted up to look like Iraqi airlines. What does that tell you? Do you seriously think there is any real possibility it was painted as a memorial?

jelloshotsrule
Mar 28, 2003, 12:48 PM
in the article i posted, i'm pretty sure it didn't mention where it was.

if it did, i missed it, and then it would make sense.

if not, where did you see that? link?

macfan
Mar 28, 2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
in the article i posted, i'm pretty sure it didn't mention where it was.

if it did, i missed it, and then it would make sense.

if not, where did you see that? link?

This is from your link. Granted, it might have been updated, but it's what I read when I first checked it out.

NASIRIYA, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. Marines searching Iraqi military headquarters in this southern city that was the site of intensive fighting came across a mural depicting a plane crashing into a building complex resembling New York's twin towers, a news agency photograph showed Wednesday.

The plane's logo and coloring resembled that of Iraqi Airlines, said Getty Images News Service executive Brian Felber, based in New York.

jelloshotsrule
Mar 28, 2003, 01:03 PM
ahh, fair enough. i am almost certain the first part wasn't there when i saw it. but indeed, it does seem to be state sponsored.

which i never really thought wasn't the case for sure, just didn't want people to assume. and since i didn't see that report about it, it seemed to be a hasty conclusion

thanks for the clarification.

skunk
Mar 28, 2003, 01:22 PM
At last! The smoking paintbrush! :rolleyes:

iMook
Apr 2, 2003, 07:53 AM
Yoda reference: it's an adaptation of a tenet of Buddhism.

> The reason that individuals are voicing anti-war (often construed as anti-American) sentiments is because the pro-war propaganda engines of America are running at maximum capacity. Heck, even debate programs on respected networks (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) have recently turned into pissing contests, with pro-war pundits saying "No... No... It's not that but... " every time valid anti-war arguments are presented. We give the benefit of doubt to Iraq because that is what we have been taught to do as true Americans: presume innocence until proven guilty (proven, not surmised).
> Also, if the Bush Administration had better PR, there wouldn't be this much anti-war sentiment.
Major PR mistakes:
1. "Axis of Evil" (ouch, as in impaled-with-a-20-foot-corkscrew ouch)
2. "Old Europe" (a campaigner for foreign love and support, isn't he?)
3. "This will be a quick and decisive war" (paraphrase) (this gave the public the impression that the war would be over in a weekend, w/o bloodshed. Then again, the fact that we bought into it is a testament to our intelligence.)
> Finally, have you ever noticed that the only major player in the Bush Administration who's been against the war is the only person in said Administration whose ever fought in a war?

Points to ponder.

macfan
Apr 2, 2003, 11:19 AM
Finally, have you ever noticed that the only major player in the Bush Administration who's been against the war is the only person in said Administration whose ever fought in a war?

Tom Ridge is against the war?