DSLR recommendations for about £600

[Blue Velvet]

I'd be very grateful if others could chime in with their thoughts on getting a DSLR for work to replace the old Sony camera we have that's falling to pieces.

We have about UK£600 (about US$1100) to spend and would like to get a body and just one lens at this stage. Used for a wide variety of situations, the camera will primarily be used by the design team... and other people we like. :D

I'm not sure how focal lengths work in the DSLR world, but a lens that could zoom to an equivalent 35mm zoom of 180-200mm would be nice and at the other end a 35mm equivalent to a 38mm wide-angle.

Requirements:

• Robust
• Simple to use modes (for those who we lend it to)
• Able to shoot in RAW if necessary
• Be able to give good, press-quality images at a decent size
• Have a half-decent built-in flash

Also, if anyone could also recommend some online (UK) or London-based retailers that would be very helpful as well.

If there are any other considerations I've failed to mention or have overlooked, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks for all input and advice...
BV

[beavo451]

I don't know about UK, but here in the US, you can get a refurbished Nikon D50 for ~$425 and then get the Nikon 18-200mm DX VR lens for ~$700.

[Mord]

If you can streatch to it the nikon d80 and canon EOS 400d are pretty good, but you'd get a nice deal on a second hand 350d or d70 and have money spare for good lenses.

[iGary]

I'd get a 20D if you can find one and a 50mm 1.8.

I wouldn't get a plastic framed body like the Rebel/D50 etc.

"Robust" was a requirement.

[Blue Velvet]

I don't know about UK, but here in the US, you can get a refurbished Nikon D50 for ~$425 and then get the Nikon 18-200mm DX VR lens for ~$700.


I'd be inclined to get a brand-new camera only for ease of purchase and corporate insurance purposes, but that's just my guess at this stage.

Haven't got too much spare time to hunt around for superb deals but if anyone could shed some light on buying refurbished cameras in the UK, that might also be worth considering.

New and box-fresh would be ideal though.

[Mord]

If your up for the stress of it you can get good deals trawling*tottenham court road for deals and go back and forth to them them to compeat for your purchase.

[skunk]

I've just bought a D50 with a kit lens and a 1 Gig card: total cost £430, from Jessops. It's certainly robust, and if you have big hands, it's much better than the Canon. That would also leave you £170 to spend on a second lens and a bag...

[simie]

Here's a starting point

Jessops.com

Canon EOS 350D Black + 18-55mm + 55-200mm Lenses £648.99 inc Vat

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s26743/0/Digital-SLRs/Canon/EOS-350D-Black-%2b-18-55mm-%2b-55-200mm-Lenses/details.aspx?&comp=y

Nikon D70s + 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 Dx Lens £599.99 inc Vat

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s29706/0/Digital-SLRs/Nikon/D70s-%2b-18-70mm-f-and-35-45-Dx-Lens/details.aspx?&comp=y

Nikon D50 + 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED Lens £419.99 inc Vat

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s29722/0/Digital-SLRs/Nikon/D50-%2b-18-55mm-f-and-35-56-G-ED-Lens/details.aspx?&comp=y

Perhaps someone can now find you a better deal.

[Blue Velvet]

Nikon D70s + 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 Dx Lens £599.99 inc Vat

How does that lens focal length translate to a 35mm equivalent? Would that be something like a 135-38mm? Bit old-skool when it comes to cameras, I'm afraid. :o

I forgot to mention that the £600 is ex VAT. Registered charities are VAT-exempt for many products. So maybe we're looking more at £700 retail... :)

We could then get another card or a better lens, I guess.

[EGT]

I'm looking for a DSLR as well. I've book marked a few websites which may be of use to you but have no idea how good/bad they are. They seem to have a good selection and not too ££. Ok, just looking now. Maybe not. :p

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/ (website's a bit strange to navigate)

[beavo451]

How does that lens focal length translate to a 35mm equivalent? Would that be something like a 135-38mm? Bit old-skool when it comes to cameras, I'm afraid. :o

I forgot to mention that the £600 is ex VAT. Registered charities are VAT-exempt for many products. So maybe we're looking more at £700 retail... :)

We could then get another card or a better lens, I guess.

The focal length will remain the same. The crop factor (sensor being smaller) is 1.5x, so the field of view will be the equivalent of 27-105mmon a 35mm film or sensor camera.

[eyup]

what kinda work is the design team gonna use it for?

[eyup]

cos if it's gonna be used with artificial lights for product shots it's handy to have a WB kelvin option - like the D200 and now, I believe, the D80.

the basic WB modes eg tungsten/fluoresent etc - are OK on my D50 but I'd prefer more control.

[ChrisA]

I'm not sure how focal lengths work in the DSLR world, but a lens that could zoom to an equivalent 35mm zoom of 180-200mm would be nice and at the other end a 35mm equivalent to a 38mm wide-angle.

Requirements:

• Robust
• Simple to use modes (for those who we lend it to)
• Able to shoot in RAW if necessary
• Be able to give good, press-quality images at a decent size
• Have a half-decent built-in flash
BV

Do you really need a lens that long? The DSLR has a smaller sensor so on a Nikon a 200mm lens mounted to a DSLR acts like a 300mm mounted on a 35mm film camera. They call it the "1.5 x crop factor"

So you want a lens in the 120 to 200 range and a 24mm lens. These are common sizes.
the 200 however is almost long enough that you will want a tripod unless you are shooting in very bright light. Also if the subject is so far away you will indeed need a very robust flash, likely not the built-in flash for a subject that is 100 or so feet away.

Note the a "faster" lens can double the effective range of your flash. If flash and the 200mm lens will be used together, please ask and let someone do the math to see if it will work out.

Nion (and canon too) have lenses that meet your needs and also have much nicer lenses that would break your budget. If you are thingking about shooting night time sports from the sidelines your _really_ need to think about finding some more money but for general photography you will do fine with a D50, the "kit" 18-55 lens plus a low cost 300mm zoom. The total price will come it right where you want it.

I don't know what your intended subject is so I ddon't know if the low priced lenses will do the job. In any case concider getting a tripod.

The D50 shoots a 3000 x 2000 pixel image in either RAW or JPG format.

[Blue Velvet]

Thanks very much for all replies... going to go for a Nikon D70S with 18-70mm AF-S DX Nikkor Lens plus a 2gb SD card.

£611.37 from amazon.co.uk

:)

[Mord]

The d70s uses compact flash cards only the d50/d80 use SD, hope it's just a typo and/or you havent ordered yet.

[Blue Velvet]

The d70s uses compact flash cards only the d50/d80 use SD, hope it's just a typo and/or you havent ordered yet.

Haven't ordered yet. Thanks for the warning... I just selected one of the recommended accessories from Amazon.

Better find the right card then... thanks, I owe you a drink. ;)

[Blue Velvet]

OK, still haven't ordered it yet due to bureaucracy... but spotted this today.

Canon EOS 400D - 18-55mm Kit£579.99 inc vat

10mp I believe... anyone shed some light or personal experiences on the pros and cons vs. the Nikon D70s?

Thoughts much appreciated.

[robbieduncan]

OK, still haven't ordered it yet due to bureaucracy... but spotted this today.

Canon EOS 400D - 18-55mm Kit£579.99 inc vat

10mp I believe... anyone shed some light or personal experiences on the pros and cons vs. the Nikon D70s?

Thoughts much appreciated.

I have one of these :D I bought it in Japan a week or so ago. The Camera itself is fantastic. The kit lens is OK, nothing special. I've bought a Canon EF-S 17-85 IS USM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Digital-Lens-Image-Stabilisation/dp/B0002XNRG4/sr=8-1/qid=1158680478/ref=sr_1_1/202-8139816-4712650?ie=UTF8&s=gateway) lens to go with it which has improved the image quality no end. Personally if I had the chance again I'd probably buy the body without the kit lens and go for the lens I bought to save some cash. This lens may be somewhat outside your price range though. The camera is so new nothing apart from Canons own software will open the RAW files at the moment but that will change soon.

The camera is 10.1Mp and compared to the point and shoots I am used to is a revelation. Everything is instant! No shutter lag, 0.2s startup time, very fast auto focus. And of course in manual mode you have total control.

This is my first DSLR and so far I've found it very straight forward to use. I'd budget for a pretty big CF card (sorry no SD) for it though. Shooting in RAW+JPEG you are looking at around 15Mb per image.

I can send you some sample images I took in Japan when I get home if you like?

[Blue Velvet]

I have one of these :D

Thanks for the review, Robbie. :)

Does the camera feel robust, build quality-wise?

Just had approval to buy either one of the two in the last 20 minutes, so will be ordering either one first thing tomorrow morning.

[robbieduncan]

Thanks for the review, Robbie. :)

Does the camera feel robust, build quality-wise?

Just had approval to buy either one of the two in the last 20 minutes, so will be ordering either one first thing tomorrow morning.

It feels well made, but it's not something I'd want to drop! I think it's designed to last, but it's entry level so plastic bodied. That said all the controls are very positive, the ports have good quality covers so they should be safe, the dust removal system seems pretty cool and should extend the life of the camera.

Depending on your actual final budget you might just sneek the body and lens I suggested (I found this store via a thead on dpreview (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=20018867), I've not shopped there): body (http://www.abc-digital-cameras.co.uk/p4896-canon-eos-400d-specifications.htm) and lens (http://www.abc-digital-cameras.co.uk/p96-canon-ef-s-17-85mm-f-4_0-5_6-is-usm.htm).

Total is £859.95 (I know, it's a lot more than £700 but the lens really is worth it).

[Blue Velvet]

Budget is def. £600 give or take £30, enough to get a 2gb Sandisk Compact Flash card... we've currently got a Nikon v. Canon debate breaking out in the office around me. :D

Think I'm sold, will do a little more research tonight and sleep on it.

Your input is very much appreciated... the Nikon D70s is getting on a bit, I feel.

[robbieduncan]

Fair enough. The kit lens will take OK pictures, although it's nowhere near your desired 200mm equivilant. Canon have a 1.6 crop so the 55 works out at a 88mm equivalent.

If the £600 is without VAT then you might be able to get a longer fixed lens within budget. The store I linked to above seem to be selling the kit for £540 including VAT. That leaves around £160. You could get a 75-300 zoom lens for £169 (http://www.abc-digital-cameras.co.uk/shop/product.php?xProd=115&xSec=108). I have no idea what the image quality with this lens is like. I'd imagine at the 300mm end you'd definitely need a tripod.

[robbieduncan]

So I'm home :)

I've put a zip of 6 pictures from Japan. It's almost 20Mb sorry. All are JPEGs from the Camera, not created from RAW. The first 2 are with the kit lens, the other 4 with the better lens.

Example Zip (http://www.robbieduncan.net/TokyoExamples.zip)

I'm not sure how long I'll leave that file there so get it whilst it's hot!

[Blue Velvet]

I'm not sure how long I'll leave that file there so get it whilst it's hot!

Grabbed it, thanks! :)

See what you mean about the lens differences, the kit lens seems noticeably softer both in sharpness and in contrast. But there's not much I can do really money-wise (approx £600 inc VAT) but I also think the kit lens will do for a general-purpose camera... most of its output will be going to press rather than high-end inkjet anyway so a bit of sharpening and tonal adjustment will be forgivable.

I might pop into Jessops at lunchtime to see if I can get my hands on one or both of them... just to cop a feel, as it were. :D

Thanks very much, you've been very helpful. I owe you a drink as well. ;)

[robbieduncan]

Glad to be of help!

Some of the difference may well be down to me getting used to the Camera. I've never really used a SLR before, let alone a digital one so there is quite a learning curve.

You can ramp up the in camera sharpening and probably play with other picture settings to get an image you like the look of.

[Abstract]

Wait until after Photokina is over before buying a camera, or at least wait for it to start in 6-7 days. If a new Nikon D50s is released, you might want to reconsider. It'll be cheaper than the Canon 400D as well so you can save money on that, as the D50 is (supposed to be) lower down the food chain, but it's really not in reality.

I'm really not sure what you're photographing, so I don't really know. Maybe the Canon 400D + kit lens is all you need. Not sure.

[Mord]

the 400d is really to be compared to the d80 NOT the d50 even an s version.

[Mechcozmo]

I have handled the D2X and D50... didn't like them as much as the Canon. Feel is important when buying a camera, and I didn't like the feel of the Nikons.

They are both great, but at this point I might buy a Canon myself. (Plus, they have a good reputation with me-- my PowerShot S2 IS is awesome!)

Good luck!

[Blue Velvet]

Good luck!

Thanks. :)

The only issue is Canon 400D v. Nikon D70s, both with their respective kit lenses. At almost identical prices.

Have got about two hours before finally ordering. :eek: :D

[Mechcozmo]

Thanks. :)

The only issue is Canon 400D v. Nikon D70s, both with their respective kit lenses. At almost identical prices.

Have got about two hours before finally ordering. :eek: :D

Being mostly impartial to cameras (i.e. get the best one) I'd say Canon. The Nikon cameras are much bulkier... did you get a chance to feel both cameras?

[beavo451]

Thanks. :)

The only issue is Canon 400D v. Nikon D70s, both with their respective kit lenses. At almost identical prices.

Have got about two hours before finally ordering. :eek: :D

If the 400D comes with that EF-S 18-55 lens (same one as 350D and 20D/30D), then the Nikon kit lens is better.

[Abstract]

the 400d is really to be compared to the d80 NOT the d50 even an s version.

True, but BV didn't say anything regarding what level camera she's after. If she/her company can get a D50s for cheaper than a 400D, then she should, especially with their budget of 600 quid. It's not going to make a difference in terms of photo quality. She should get a better lens with the money saved.

And besides, the Nikon D50 is just as good as the 350D/400D in many respects, and I'd say that the D80 is actually better than both the D50 or 400D's body, whether the D50 got an improved "s" designation or not.

[robbieduncan]

If the 400D comes with that EF-S 18-55 lens (same one as 350D and 20D/30D), then the Nikon kit lens is better.

It does come with an EF-S 18-55 lens but I was led to believe that it had been revised a bit since the 350D. All I know is that the one in my kit was made in Taiwan (the better lens I bought was made in Japan) and is very light compared to the better lens...

[robbieduncan]

So what did you order?

[Blue Velvet]

^The Canon. :D

It'll be here on Friday, mmmm.