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View Full Version : New Logo critique required.




dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 09:24 AM
I've settled on this font and I sort of like the symbol, now I'm trying to make the words work with the symbol.

Does 'bennetts' going vertically look a bit naff?

Any suggestions on how the words might work with the symbol?



Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 09:29 AM
I've settled on this font and I sort of like the symbol, now I'm trying to make the words work with the symbol.

Does 'bennetts' going vertically look a bit naff?

Any suggestions on how the words might work with the symbol?

Leave off the rainbow gradient ! :eek: I would stay away from vertical text as well. Otherwise, I like the middle row best.

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 09:40 AM
Unfortunately, there *has* to be a rainbow gradient in there *somewhere*. The original brief calls for...wait for it...a horizonal spectrum fading off to white top and bottom with the words in the centre in white with a black outline. I might still have to do this.

In the middle one do you think caps or LC works better?

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 09:47 AM
Unfortunately, there *has* to be a rainbow gradient in there *somewhere*. The original brief calls for...wait for it...a horizonal spectrum fading off to white top and bottom with the words in the centre in white with a black outline. I might still have to do this.

In the middle one do you think caps or LC works better?

I like bold lowercase best. It's too bad about having to use that rainbow, I'm not surprised they want you to put that in there. Sounds like they know what they want, you might have to show them something that matches their requirements better with the words in the center and all. ;)

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 10:04 AM
the BP logo almost seems like it's too much to work into the actual text of the company name. Not to mention it's hard to read at first glance.

I'd also advise against the rainbow gradient, I think the best solution would be to present the logo both ways and have a strong argument to why they don't need the gradient. Ok, you're a printer, I understand that you can print any color in the rainbow, but can you not pick one of them for your own branding? It's distracting and very "desktop publishing" looking (i.e designed in word).

Alternatively you could suggest that they add other printer identification to their logo like crop marks, registration marks or C, M, Y and K all neatly arranged in little square boxes under their logo.

I did a quick solution in illustrator. I'll try my hand at the alternative suggestions too. Just remember, just because a client wants something doesn't mean they won't change their mind if they see something "better than they imagined"

dornoforpyros
Sep 8, 2006, 10:15 AM
it's 1978 all over again!

sorry, but everything there looks like the same horrible logo that every printing company founded in the 70's has. I can just see this logo on a book of matches in some small town coffee shop where the farmers go on all day about the late harvest and how the government is screwing them.

whoo, ok that was a bit of an odd tangent there, in other words, it looks very dated out of the gates. I'd scrap the whole thing and start from scratch personally.

sorry, I'm not trying to offend, just being honest.

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 10:15 AM
Second attempt, less clean, but a good alternative to the "we must have a rainbow" idea.

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 10:19 AM
Second attempt, less clean, but a good alternative to the "we must have a rainbow" idea.

Heh, do you get a cut if they choose these designs? ;) Seriously though, dizastor has some good ideas, though the 2nd design has many too many elements but I think they're both much better than Dogbone's original ideas. Good examples to reference from.

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 10:26 AM
Heh, do you get a cut if they choose these designs? ;)

My paypal account is ready for victory. ;)

Seriously though I know about the stubborn client thing. We present better ideas to clients every day where I work, the key is to have sound reasoning. Of course, you always present them with "exactly what they asked for" as well. You just have to explain to them why your concepts will work better.

Like dornoforpyros said the rainbowdient looks very cheesey 70's. If they are a print company looking to get work from designers the first thing we're going to see is that goofy logo and say, hmm, do I want these guys to print my stuff.

Just more fuel for you to counter the client's wants with your design sensibilities.

dornoforpyros
Sep 8, 2006, 10:32 AM
Just to back up my statements, here's the logo from the printing company from the town I grew up in. Yes, it's a farming community.

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 10:35 AM
Just to back up my statements, here's the logo from the printing company from the town I grew up in. Yes, it's a farming community.

You have their number, I have a number of jobs to send out to print :p

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 10:38 AM
Just to back up my statements, here's the logo from the printing company from the town I grew up in. Yes, it's a farming community.


Looks like it should be a logo for a "Greatest Hits of the 70's" vinyl record collection.

Act now and get a 5th LP free!!

nbs2
Sep 8, 2006, 10:40 AM
Unfortunately, there *has* to be a rainbow gradient in there *somewhere*. The original brief calls for...wait for it...a horizonal spectrum fading off to white top and bottom with the words in the centre in white with a black outline. I might still have to do this.

In the middle one do you think caps or LC works better?
I like the LC better. Easier on the eyes, more attractive and such.

I may be misreading your summary of the brief, but it reads like you could get away with a greyscale gradient instead of rainbow, and that it could be one of those white to black to white gradients. If I was smarter, I bet I'd even know the fancy name for it. At least it wouldn't be so 70s...

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 11:06 AM
Thanks for the feedback so far. OK I'll go with C+LC.

dizastor, That looks pretty good, I'll give that concept a go with a couple of registration marks as well. The cmyk looks much better than a spectrum and even though it has also been done to death it still has a clean look to it especially with some extra reg marks. I'll try to come up with something interesting based your your suggestion.

dornoforpyros, no offence taken at all. You are spot on, I might use your LP logo in order to talk them out of going down this road.

nbs2, it's definitely a spectrum, I worded it badly.

Here's two images I'm going to submit first as I can at least give the client what they asked for. He also asked for the white to fade to black so an ad can be made white reversed out for the local paper.

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 11:52 AM
I think I'll try to build an alternative logo around this one.

(apologies to dizastor)

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 11:52 AM
Here's two images I'm going to submit first as I can at least give the client what they asked for. He also asked for the white to fade to black so an ad can be made white reversed out for the local paper.

Oh goodness. Might as well close up shop now with those last 2 logos, if can even call them logos. I bet they'll like them though, clients always seem to like the worst stuff ever.

Definitely show them lots of choices from great to ..well whatever that last example they wanted looks like. They might, and hopefully will, reconsider.

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 12:03 PM
Definitely show them lots of choices...

I find the best solution is to show them 3 choices.

1) Exactly what they wanted
2) A slight departure
3) A totally new concept

Showing them a lot of choices can backfire and confuse a client more than it helps. Showing three is a good balance between, I did what you asked but I'm also proactively thinking about the project.

If you showed me 30 designs my thought would be that you couldn't decide yourself what looked best... and you're the designer. How am I (the lowly client) supposed to chose?

No matter what you show them, clients usually end up "frankensteining" all of your ideas into one stiched-together abomination of unrelated ideas. Your next challenge is to make that work. :rolleyes:

iMeowbot
Sep 8, 2006, 12:16 PM
Here's two images I'm going to submit first as I can at least give the client what they asked for. He also asked for the white to fade to black so an ad can be made white reversed out for the local paper.
The one on the left, with the lettering to the right to complete the thought on that symbol, works way better. Without the text attached it looks like, well, http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5703/tafkapjv5.png (http://imageshack.us)

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 12:31 PM
I find the best solution is to show them 3 choices.


That's a safe way to go. Generally you just have to feel out your client. In my first design job, if I went to his office with just 3 logo designs I would get screamed at for 20 minutes about how lazy and uncreative I am, no less than 12 designs or something ridiculous. The things we designers put up with :mad:

ATD
Sep 8, 2006, 01:34 PM
I find the best solution is to show them 3 choices.

1) Exactly what they wanted
2) A slight departure
3) A totally new concept




I agree with that as far as the range of ideas, always good to cover all your bases. The number of logos/ideas can vary from client to client. I was once a part of a logo presentation that was more than 5000 logos deep and that was not the only phase. :eek:

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 01:45 PM
...more than 5000 logos deep...

I'd ask the client to get back to me when they figured out a clear direction they wanted to go in, or find another agency.

Thats beyond excessive.

ATD
Sep 8, 2006, 02:13 PM
Thats beyond excessive.


Not always. The design firm I was freelancing for this did this presentation was Saul Bass, the client was Exxon. Presentations like that were quite common there.

dizastor
Sep 8, 2006, 02:19 PM
Not always. The design firm I was freelancing for this did this presentation was Saul Bass, the client was Exxon. Presentations like that were quite common there.

How long does it take to present and explain 5000 logos?

"If you'll turn to page 3864 you'lll see our next idea..."

yikes.

ATD
Sep 8, 2006, 02:41 PM
How long does it take to present and explain 5000 logos?

"If you'll turn to page 3864 you'lll see our next idea..."

yikes.


LOL. The presentation took a day or 2. The logos were mounted on large foamcore boards, (maybe a couple dozen per board) 5 deep around a very large conference room and done in sets. He wanted to show he covered all the bases, he actually was only pushing 3 logos, the rest were research. :eek: :eek: :eek:

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 07:42 PM
How about this?

Doctor Q
Sep 8, 2006, 07:52 PM
That's very nice. It's sophisticated. I like the dots on the i's being on the line.

Perhaps you should kern the words so the g right-aligns with the s.

qpawn
Sep 8, 2006, 08:03 PM
How about this?
What about this?

balamw
Sep 8, 2006, 08:05 PM
That's very nice. It's sophisticated. I like the dots on the i's being on the line.

Perhaps you should kern the words so the g right-aligns with the s.
I like it and agree with Q. It's got nice balance and the b & p look like they're mirrorred around the midline. Much nicer than the earlier ones...

EDIT: I like gpawn's version better, more balance.

B

Lau
Sep 8, 2006, 08:23 PM
What about this?

That's really funny, just this minute I was playing around with it and was at this stage:

56914

:D

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 09:26 PM
qpawn

I gotta admit I do like the clean look of that. But I'd really like to work a b or a b and p into it. So here's some more variations inpired by your one.

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 09:34 PM
How about this. By removing the left hand outline the two right quadrants become a B and a P.

Lau
Sep 8, 2006, 09:34 PM
qpawn

I gotta admit I do like the clean look of that. But I'd really like to work a b or a b and p into it. So here's some more variations inpired by your one.

I don't think there's any point in having the CMYK bar as well as the CMYK registration mark if the registration mark is coloured with CMYK segments, why have the bar as well? It just over-complicates the logo. The bar only serves a purpose when the registration mark is in black and white. However, I think it's better without the bar why have two separate elements of a logo when it makes sense to combine them?

ATD
Sep 8, 2006, 09:42 PM
I think the new logos are much nicer. Just for the hell of it I did this in Maya.

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 09:43 PM
@Lau

Yes I was thinking the same thing, I just got hung up on having at least a 'b' there somewhere. I'm real excited about this latest one.

Thanks for all the great input everyone.

@ATD,

That's a great concept.

Lau
Sep 8, 2006, 09:45 PM
I think the new logos are much nicer. Just for the hell of it I did this in Maya.

I really like this. It just sums up the whole idea perfectly.

decksnap
Sep 8, 2006, 09:45 PM
I think the new logos are much nicer. Just for the hell of it I did this in Maya.

ooh that's great. Reproduction issues notwithstanding. Though I guess if they're a printer, they could manage it.

ATD
Sep 8, 2006, 09:50 PM
Reproduction issues notwithstanding. Though I guess if they're a printer, they could manage it.

LOL, That's funny.



Dogbone, if you want it, take it. It was all of 10 mins work. It does need a small fix at the bottom of the b.

dogbone
Sep 8, 2006, 10:08 PM
Dogbone, if you want it, take it. It was all of 10 mins work. It does need a small fix at the bottom of the b.


That's very generous of you and if it was for me, I'd definitely use it. But realistically, if you remember the client's original brief, I can't see him even thinking about anything as sophisticated as this ;) this is a logo that should suit a very upmarket printer. My guy is a good technician but it's all hack work. I'll put it in the mix anyway and see what happens.

Foxglove9
Sep 8, 2006, 10:57 PM
I think the new logos are much nicer. Just for the hell of it I did this in Maya.

A little too literal for my tastes, but not bad.

I liked the direction of the other ideas way better. Though I think you should keep the weight of the fonts the same or make it graphically look a little less busy.

dogbone
Sep 9, 2006, 12:42 AM
A little too literal for my tastes, but not bad.

I liked the direction of the other ideas way better. Though I think you should keep the weight of the fonts the same or make it graphically look a little less busy.

Yes, I think the 'bennetts' is a little too heavy, but I don't have what I need in Futura. So I'll see if I can use a different font after I get an idea which direction the client wants to go.

I'm ashamed to say that I have been fiddling around a bit more. What do you think of this latest CMY version?

Also I've done a spectrum version just in case ;)

ATD
Sep 9, 2006, 01:03 AM
That's very generous of you and if it was for me, I'd definitely use it. But realistically, if you remember the client's original brief, I can't see him even thinking about anything as sophisticated as this ;) this is a logo that should suit a very upmarket printer. My guy is a good technician but it's all hack work. I'll put it in the mix anyway and see what happens.

It would not be the first time I overlooked a creative brief :rolleyes: . No problem doing what you want with it.

JRM PowerPod
Sep 9, 2006, 09:22 AM
How about this. By removing the left hand outline the two right quadrants become a B and a P.

Thats a fairly decent effort in my opinion. A forum with free graphic design cool. You see i was designing one too and was just after an opinion

What do you think of this

srobert
Sep 13, 2006, 10:12 AM
Quick question. Will the Logo ever have to be used in black and white? How would it be treated in black and white? When I work on a logo, I always have a look at how it's doing in a worst case scenario. Does it still looks good when it's shrinked to 1" wide and in Black and white? (Newspaper ads and sponsors lists comes to mind) How about 1 inch wide on a black background? Can it be inverted? (White on black) Just some things to keep in mind. Keep on the good work.

Foxglove9
Sep 13, 2006, 11:36 AM
Quick question. Will the Logo ever have to be used in black and white? How would it be treated in black and white? When I work on a logo, I always have a look at how it's doing in a worst case scenario. Does it still looks good when it's shrinked to 1" wide and in Black and white? (Newspaper ads and sponsors lists comes to mind) How about 1 inch wide on a black background? Can it be inverted? (White on black) Just some things to keep in mind. Keep on the good work.

I always keep that in mind too when I make a logo, to me that's like basics. A good logo should be able to print Black and White (not grayscale) and a wide variety of sizes from a postage stamp to a poster. Good point.

iMacZealot
Sep 15, 2006, 01:15 AM
Made this very quickly.

At least it's a different rainbow.

dogbone
Sep 19, 2006, 06:40 AM
Unfortunately the client really wanted to use the original spectrum with some 'minor tweaks'. I begged, pleaded and cajoled for an ungodly length of time for him to at least consider my arguments.

I am preparing a mock up ad to place in the yellow pages for him to get some more opinions on. With this in mind I've done a bit of tweaking with the proportions.

First off I've changed the typeface to the best one out of my limited range of professional fonts. I'd welcome any opinions on this new face.

The bottom of the p and top of the b are equal to the outer reg target circle. The length of the lower stem of the p from where it joins the counter is equal to the length of the stem of the sylised p in the reg target. Finally I have lowered the dots in the 'i's' so that they are half circles.

Doctor Q
Sep 19, 2006, 01:32 PM
I like the dots on the line better than the dots overlapping but below the line. In lower resolutions it will be even more odd-looking to have the lots overlap the line but not be centered on it.

dogbone
Sep 19, 2006, 06:17 PM
Thanks Q, I believe you are right. I've altered it. (but not on the mock up below)

Here's a quick mock up (complete with muddy white) for the yellow pages. The type doesn't work to well at small sizes on a monitor. The ad is only 4 cm wide.