Can a Christian please answer something for me.....

[yg17]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )

So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to convert people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

[zimv20]

sounds like someone who's mentally ill and overdosed on iconography. not sure it's fair to claim him as a representative of christianity.

[Manzana]

he's doing it because he's human. people have all sorts of trouble, and even people that are christians are susceptible to mental illness (which is what this sounds like).

however, i will say that some people are called to do rather odd things for the gospel...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in State College, Pennsylvania. A middle-class, white, liberal hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant sign with an "O" on it, yelling out some athiest mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says "there is no god" on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street )

So, my question to any athiest here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does athiesm get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy lack of religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to "smarten" people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

[Ashapalan]

I think the best person to ask is the man himself.
I'm sure it would answer your questions.

[yg17]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in State College, Pennsylvania. A middle-class, white, liberal hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant sign with an "O" on it, yelling out some athiest mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says "there is no god" on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street )

So, my question to any athiest here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does athiesm get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy lack of religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to "smarten" people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?


Except atheists don't do that crap. We don't find the need to push our beliefs onto others :rolleyes:

[Thomas Veil]

I don't think a true Christian would have an answer to your question, yg.

Ask a fanatic instead. ;)

[zephead]

Surely you can't judge a religion's people by the few who decide to make dumbasses out of themselves by promoting their religion in rather odd ways. Some people just get so overjoyed by being filled with the Holy Spirit and feel they need to do whatever is necessary to get other people to feel like that. I'm a Christian and I don't feel like I need to stand on a crate in the middle of the city shouting at people that they need to be saved, or to do some other outrageous stunt just to promote my religion. Jesus said to "go and make disciples of all nations." He didn't say how, so these people take it upon themselves to figure out how. It doesn't always work out that well, evidently. :o

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Except atheists don't do that crap. We don't find the need to push our beliefs onto others :rolleyes:

And Christians do? Neither I nor any of the Christians I personally know have done anything like what you've originally posted. Just because you see a couple nuts doesn't really mean anything.

[vniow]

And Christians do? Neither I nor any of the Christians I personally know have done anything like what you've originally posted. Just because you see a couple nuts doesn't really mean anything.

I've seen plenty of people do that and I immediately write them off as nuts because...well, they are. Its only that many of them use religion as their point of nuttiness with signs, crazy behaviours, etc.

On the other hand many self-professed Christians I've come into contact with in my lifetime who are otherwise sane, are pretty religious and do try to force their beliefs on others but in less obvious and more subversive ways. It seems to happen far more often in religions that promote evangelicalism.

[pseudobrit]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in State College, Pennsylvania. A middle-class, white, liberal hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant sign with an "O" on it, yelling out some athiest mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says "there is no god" on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street )

So, my question to any athiest here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does athiesm get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy lack of religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to "smarten" people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

I've never seen an atheist (or an athiest for that matter) proselytizing in my life. Can't say the same about certain Christian varietials.

[bearbo]

so by your logic...

So, my question to any American here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does America get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy country" as being of the Constitution. And if their goal is to educate people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

[beatsme]

I've never seen an atheist (or an athiest for that matter) proselytizing in my life. Can't say the same about certain Christian varietials.

nor I.

and my understanding is that the "cross," as it is typically shown, is historically inaccurate. So it goes...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I've never seen an atheist (or an athiest for that matter) proselytizing in my life. Can't say the same about certain Christian varietials.

Arguably, a lot of those people aren't Christian, even though they may claim to be. Take Jehovah's Witnesses for example - definitely not Christian, and (at least in my opinion) a pretty nutty bunch.

In any case, whether or not some of those people are Christian doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians don't do anything close to the idiotic things the man in the OP's original story did.

I'm offended because the OP generalized all Christians in the same big lump with that crazy guy.

your people

I can agree with your point that the man you saw was an idiot, and if he were Christian - he is one Christian idiot. But at the end of your post, you made a logical jump by applying that to general Christianity.

[bearbo]

I've never seen an atheist (or an athiest for that matter) proselytizing in my life. Can't say the same about certain Christian varietials.
but have you any idea what are some of the things communism force its citizen to believe? its not just an individual, or individuals, but an entier government...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

so by your logic...

So, my question to any American here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does America get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy country" as being of the Constitution. And if their goal is to educate people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

I was going to laugh but I'm an American citizen :(

:p

[bearbo]

I was going to laugh but I'm an American citizen :(

:p

haha, you don't literally think i meant it, do you

[bousozoku]

I've never seen an atheist (or an athiest for that matter) proselytizing in my life. Can't say the same about certain Christian varietials.

As a Christian, you're supposed to testify to other about your enlightenment. The fundamentalist churches push it hard and, in my experience, will set up schedules and pick you up to put you at some store or street corner to look like a fool.

As one of the former faithful, I would sometimes say something about God when I felt particularly happy or blessed but I would never go out of my way to tell people about it because it was obnoxious. It's not as if Christianity is a hidden religion and people couldn't find a church.

[leekohler]

And Christians do? Neither I nor any of the Christians I personally know have done anything like what you've originally posted. Just because you see a couple nuts doesn't really mean anything.

Many Christians love to force their beliefs on others. Have you been asleep for the Bush administration? Their are tons of examples.

[bearbo]

Many Christians love to force their beliefs on others. Have you been asleep for the Bush administration? Their are tons of examples.
define force... invite to church counts? tell counts?

OMG, did the other guy just FORCE me to use a mac?

[leekohler]

define force... invite to church counts? tell counts?

OMG, did the other guy just FORCE me to use a mac?

How about legislating your religious beliefs? That's seems like force to me. Our taxes are now being used to fund faith-based groups. That should not be legal, but they've done it anyway. And don't get me started on marriage amendments.

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Many Christians love to force their beliefs on others. Have you been asleep for the Bush administration? Their are tons of examples.

The two key words there are "many" and "force".

Many does not mean most. And for whether or not "most" is true... I don't think it is, but there's no way to prove that. Might depend on community, but at least where I've lived, that's not the case.

"Force" may happen with some people. I've seen some people really push it hard on others. But most of the time, what I see is: Christian and non-Christian are friends, Christian friend invites non-Christian friend to church, non-Christian friend may or may not go/may or may not convert. If he doesn't convert, then the Christian friend might invite him again a few months later. (Because many churches have "newcomers nights" once or twice a year.)

Again, though, this probably varies from place to place. I just almost never see Christians force their beliefs on others. The only time I've seen it on my campus has been down near one of our campus buildings where there's this old nut preacher. Gives a bad name to Christianity, I think, because he's very forceful and radical. Otherwise, it's just a "Hey, you want to hang out on my church next Friday?" and it's left there, to my experience.

[pseudobrit]

but have you any idea what are some of the things communism force its citizen to believe? its not just an individual, or individuals, but an entier government...

I'm not sure what this has to do with the price of coffee in Mecca.

[KingYaba]

How about legislating your religious beliefs? That's seems like force to me. Our taxes are now being used to fund faith-based groups. That should not be legal, but they've done it anyway. And don't get me started on marriage amendments.
How aobut legislating your atheist beliefs? Christians would say the same thing. How dare my tax dollars fund abortion clinics... ect...

[Oryan]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )
You've seen him too? I saw him "preaching" to people in front of that s****y motel near TJ (the one with giant red letters out front) a few weeks ago. Maybe he makes rounds in this part of the state.

The thing that annoys me most about fundamentalist (if that's the right word) Christians is that if you tell them they won't change your mind, it only makes them try harder.

[leekohler]

How aobut legislating your atheist beliefs? Christians would say the same thing. How dare my tax dollars fund abortion clinics... ect...

Taxes should not support abortion clinics. Did I say they should? That is clearly wrong IMO. And I didn't realize that abortion was an atheist belief. Are you saying Christians don't have them? And did I say I was an atheist?

[bearbo]

How about legislating your religious beliefs? That's seems like force to me. Our taxes are now being used to fund faith-based groups. That should not be legal, but they've done it anyway. And don't get me started on marriage amendments.

what's wrong with legislating for what you believe is true? if you don't agree, did you legislating against it? have you talked or wrote to your representative about this?

our tax are used in a lot of ways that i don't quite agree, war against iraq included, but i didn't call the every single american fanatic about it

marriage amendment? what 'bout incest law, do you have something to sayt about that too? now i'm not saying i completely agree with everything christianity is seem to be promoting, but i certainly do go crazy against entire christian community if there's something i don't agree with...

if there's legislation that christians try to go for, that you don't agree, you have your rights too... just because you are too lazy to fight back, you don't have the right to call them "force"

[pseudobrit]

if there's legislation that christians try to go for, that you don't agree, you have your rights too... just because you are too lazy to fight back, you don't have the right to call them "force"


Just like the slaves were too lazy to fight for their human rights, and later, as free men, their civil liberties?

[KingYaba]

Abortion is not widely accepted among church groups. SO it's not a Christian stance. The Catholic, the Episcipol Church are just some of the many who condem it. Hence why a christian would be very upset about theiri own government providing aid.Just as you are upset about the gov. funding religious groups. Which are mainly for charity... btw.

Did zoomzoomzoom say the gov. should support christiangroups? I didn't realise that funding faith-based charities was such a bad idea. :rolleyes:

People legislate their beliefs all the time. It's not limited to Christian beliefs.

[Oryan]

marriage amendment? what 'bout incest law, do you have something to sayt about that too?
Incest laws and same-sex marriage are completely separate issues. The first is a quality of life issue for the child. It is in place because of a higher rate of birth defects which can be exhausting/costly to care for. Same-sex marriage is an issue of sharing between two people: who can see you at the hospital, who has power of attorney, inheritance, shared insurance, etc.

[zimv20]

it is a grave error to assume that morality sources from any religion, and further to assume that adopting any sense of right or wrong in US law means all christian dogma is now ripe for legislation. it's not.

[leekohler]

what's wrong with legislating for what you believe is true? if you don't agree, did you legislating against it? have you talked or wrote to your representative about this?

our tax are used in a lot of ways that i don't quite agree, war against iraq included, but i didn't call the every single american fanatic about it

marriage amendment? what 'bout incest law, do you have something to sayt about that too? now i'm not saying i completely agree with everything christianity is seem to be promoting, but i certainly do go crazy against entire christian community if there's something i don't agree with...

if there's legislation that christians try to go for, that you don't agree, you have your rights too... just because you are too lazy to fight back, you don't have the right to call them "force"

EXCUSE ME! Don't you EVER call me lazy. I've written more congressmen, donated more cash to causes and spoken at more events than you have hairs on your head.

BUT the issue is this: Christians are fighting to take away rights from people like me. And there are a LOT more of them than us. Since when has anyone tried to tell Christians they can't get married in the US? Never. Rights should not be legislated in the a country that claims to be free. Right should belong to all equally. And if you EVER try to compare homosexualty to incest again, you'll get earful you haven't gotten in years.

The majority taking rights away from a minority IS force. Period.

[yg17]

but have you any idea what are some of the things communism force its citizen to believe? its not just an individual, or individuals, but an entier government...


Oh, and a government has never forced its people to be christian? I'm quickly reminded of mideval Europe, where anyone who wasn't christain was persecuted, or even killed.

[bousozoku]

You've seen him too? I saw him "preaching" to people in front of that s****y motel near TJ (the one with giant red letters out front) a few weeks ago. Maybe he makes rounds in this part of the state.

The thing that annoys me most about fundamentalist (if that's the right word) Christians is that if you tell them they won't change your mind, it only makes them try harder.

It's their job.

How can you argue with people who think that cutting their hair, dancing, music in church, or a number of other things are against God's wishes?

[bearbo]

And I didn't realize that abortion was an atheist belief.

it sure seem to you and OP that there's christian, and atheist

Taxes should not support abortion clinics. Did I say they should? That is clearly wrong IMO.
OH... so non-christian can be wrong too... WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU NON-CHRISTIANS

Are you saying Christians don't have them?
objection your honor, relavence?
you american claim to be environmentally conscious, yet if you look at data from department of energy, and other sources, america uses far more non-renewable energy than anybody
And did I say I was an atheist?
you surely are arguing for them

[pseudobrit]

Abortion is not widely accepted among church groups. SO it's not a Christian stance. The Catholic, the Episcipol Church are just some of the many who condem it. Hence why a christian would be very upset about theiri own government providing aid.

Just because some religious groups oppose abortion doesn't mean abortion is tied to religion.

"Unchristian" is not a religion.

[yg17]

You've seen him too? I saw him "preaching" to people in front of that s****y motel near TJ (the one with giant red letters out front) a few weeks ago. Maybe he makes rounds in this part of the state.

The thing that annoys me most about fundamentalist (if that's the right word) Christians is that if you tell them they won't change your mind, it only makes them try harder.


Yeah, he was at the intersection of Pine and 9th, right across from Alex's Pizza.

[bearbo]

Just like the slaves were too lazy to fight for their human rights, and later, as free men, their civil liberties?
back then slaves were not given certain rights, and as time pass on, those rights are slowly but surely restored... i didnt know non christian's rights were taken away

[pseudobrit]

back then slaves were not given certain rights, and as time pass on, those rights are slowly but surely restored... i didnt know non christian's rights were taken away

Well, the fundamentalists sure are in the process of depriving homosexuals of their rights.

[yg17]

How aobut legislating your atheist beliefs? Christians would say the same thing. How dare my tax dollars fund abortion clinics... ect...

I don't see any atheists saying "There is no god, so let's go kill a bunch of unborn babies!" or "There is no god, let's go have gay sex and get married!" whereas you often hear "Killing babies murder and breaking one of the commandments" or "The bible says homosexuality is wrong"

Atheist beliefs aren't being legislated. Atheists have one basic belief: there is no god. That can't be used to legislate much. We don't have a giant book filled with 2,000 year old, outdated laws, that we can use to pass bills through the house.

[KingYaba]

Just because some religious groups oppose abortion doesn't mean abortion is tied to religion.

"Unchristian" is not a religion.
It is entire Christian denominations who denounce abortion.

[bearbo]

Incest laws and same-sex marriage are completely separate issues. The first is a quality of life issue for the child. It is in place because of a higher rate of birth defects which can be exhausting/costly to care for. Same-sex marriage is an issue of sharing between two people: who can see you at the hospital, who has power of attorney, inheritance, shared insurance, etc.
of course, same sex marriage has VERY low rate of birth-defect...

you don't need to be married to have someone see you at the hospital,inheritance, shared insurance, etc... i'm not sure what you meant by power of attorney

i know many couple, gay or straight, live together as couples, without getting married... yes, even between a man and a woman... they dont seem to have problem with seeing in hospital, inheritance, shared insurance, etc... c'mon, it's not about that, it's about recognition, they want to be recognized.

[KingYaba]

Atheist beliefs aren't being legislated.
You're missing my point. A Christian would say atheist's beliefs are being legislated. ;)

[bearbo]

Oh, and a government has never forced its people to be christian? I'm quickly reminded of mideval Europe, where anyone who wasn't christain was persecuted, or even killed.
get your history straight

what about times when government killed christians? surely you have no idea how Jesus died.

[yg17]

You're missing my point. A Christian would say atheist's beliefs are being legislated. ;)


Well then they're ****ing stupid if they would actually see it that way

[yg17]

get your history straight

what about times when government killed christians? surely you have no idea how Jesus died.

So, it's OK when christians kill, but the second they're killed, it's bad? Yes, I know how Jesus died, I'm not stupid. But it's no big ****ing deal compared to the amount of times in history christians have killed. So yes, I know how he died, and I only wish they would've killed him sooner before he got a chance to create all of these nutcase followers.

[bearbo]

EXCUSE ME! Don't you EVER call me lazy. I've written more congressmen, donated more cash to causes and spoken at more events than you have hairs on your head.

BUT the issue is this: Christians are fighting to take away rights from people like me. And there are a LOT more of them than us. Since when has anyone tried to tell Christians they can't get married in the US? Never. Rights should not be legislated in the a country that claims to be free. Right should belong to all equally. And if you EVER try to compare homosexualty to incest again, you'll get earful you haven't gotten in years.

The majority taking rights away from a minority IS force. Period.
oh i'm sorry people dont allow you to go to opposite sex's bathroom... that would be majority take the right away from minority, wouldn't it

america is found in majority rule, mostly... every tried to put in an amendment so that the least favoriate president candidate gets elected?

[aswitcher]

Being a Christian only since my late 20s and being a Mac user only for a few years, I find there are some surprising similiarities between them.

When I was an athiest - non God/supernatural believer (what i can see is only what must be real, if it also gels with what I know about science etc etc) - I didn't think a lot about Christians except to notice the weird and annoying ones who appeared on the Christian fringe. I didn't hassle them, but I did find it insulting to my intelligence that they held these beliefs. Sure at the time I hadn't read the Bible much, only done soem religious studies in scholl, or really given a great deal of thought to philosophy and why life exists, but they did seem pretty deluded, and I was enjoying life so I wasn't about to accept thier beliefs and change the way I did things. I knew that there was stuff in my life they would force me to give up, and I couldn't see how they were right. Then over some many months I seriously looked into it, did my own research, sort answers to all the quesionts and objections I had - it took a few years in the end but now I am a Christian, and will be for life.

When I was a PC user - non Mac / Linux user (if it works with Microsoft then its real for me else I dont care) - I didn't think a lot about Mac and Linux users, except to notice the occasional article or Mac design that appeared annoyingly on the fringe of my PC reading. I didn't hassle them, but I did find it insulting to my intelligence that they held these beliefs that their machines and OSes were better. Sure I had done a computing science degree I knew some unix but they still did seem pretty deluded, and I was enjoying my PC life so I wasn't about to accept their new OSes and change the way I did things. I knew that there was stuff in my life they would force me to give up, and I couldn't see how they were right. Then over some many months I seriously looked into it, did my own research, sort answers to all the quesionts and objections I had - it took about a year in the end but now I am a Mac user, and will be for life.

[pseudobrit]

It is entire Christian denominations who denounce abortion...
You're missing my point. A Christian would say atheist's beliefs are being legislated.

Atheists don't "believe" in abortion. Just because abortion and athiesm are both anathema to certain Christian groups doesn't mean the two are bound in the same ideology.

[bearbo]

Well, the fundamentalists sure are in the process of depriving homosexuals of their rights.
are you trying to deprive fundamentalists their right to legistlating?

[pseudobrit]

get your history straight

what about times when government killed christians?

Does that offset the times when Christians killed people for religion?

surely you have no idea how Jesus died.

Was it the atheists? Or was he aborted?

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I think there's been a lot of beating around that doesn't concern the original topic.

Do the majority of Christians force their beliefs on others? We can debate with that later, but for the original post-

The original post was about some moron in the middle of the road trying to evangelize. And then it went to generalize that all Christians did such stupid things.

Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things

I think it went on to attempts to relate "mainstream Christians" to the nut on the street by saying that Christians for their beliefs on others, and because the guy on the street was trying to do the same thing, Christians in general are morons who wouldn't mind standing in the middle of streets blindfolded.

The thread title asks for an answer from a Christian, but I think that anyone of any faith (or lack thereof) can answer it just by pointing out the logical fallacy in the original post.

[pseudobrit]

are you trying to deprive fundamentalists their right to legistlating?

Yes. Because the Constitution forbids depriving men of their rights through legislation.

If a simple majority of Americans decided that Christianity should be our national religion, would you support the legislation?

[bearbo]

I don't see any atheists saying "There is no god, so let's go kill a bunch of unborn babies!" or "There is no god, let's go have gay sex and get married!" whereas you often hear "Killing babies murder and breaking one of the commandments" or "The bible says homosexuality is wrong"

Atheist beliefs aren't being legislated. Atheists have one basic belief: there is no god. That can't be used to legislate much. We don't have a giant book filled with 2,000 year old, outdated laws, that we can use to pass bills through the house.

so killing baby is not murder? what else is new
the bible didn't say homosexuality is wrong?

living in america all your life, i bet? it has really made you way too self centered... go walk around the world, you will realize that atheism is much more forceful in some other place of the world

[bearbo]

Was it the atheists? Or was he aborted?

neither, but he was killed by an government

[takao]

Oh, and a government has never forced its people to be christian? I'm quickly reminded of mideval Europe, where anyone who wasn't christain was persecuted, or even killed.

well we had a christian-conservative fascistic state from 1934 to 1938 (when it got replaced) with god in constitution etc. ... but somehow it wasn't very christian .. unless shooting down protesters is christian

[bearbo]

Yes. Because the Constitution forbids depriving men of their rights through legislation.

If a simple majority of Americans decided that Christianity should be our national religion, would you support the legislation?

i don't support illegal immigration, but wouldn't that be some sort of depriving man's right thru legislation?

there are many other examples...

[pseudobrit]

so killing baby is not murder? what else is new
the bible didn't say homosexuality is wrong?

Why do you have a problem separating the ideology of atheism from the issues some Christian groups focus on?

[pseudobrit]

i don't support illegal immigration, but wouldn't that be some sort of depriving man's right thru legislation?

No. There's no fundamental human right to immigrate. Maybe a reasonable expectation of civility and practical access, but no Constitutional demand.

there are many other examples...

Like going into the opposite sex's bathroom?

Keep on going deeper ad absurdum.

[bearbo]

i dont have a problem...

what i do have a problem is that you assume the behavior of a single christian to be the entire christianity's belief

while christian has its belief of abortion, you believe not... well, that's fine, go write to congressman, no one is stopping you

if you believe homosexuality should not be limited, go protest...

just because some christian go to the extent and do it, doesn't make them crazy and stupid... people have the right to fight for what they believe is right...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

just because some christian go to the extent and do it, doesn't make them crazy and stupid... people have the right to fight for what they believe is right...

Some people are fighting for what they believe to be right in a crazy and stupid manner. And that's... stupid, frankly. And I'm saying that as a Christian to other Christians who really cross the line into the land of crazy talk.

But other Christians shouldn't be lumped in with those crackers.

[zap2]

bearbo..I have a question do you believe in the bible word for word?(IE the world is only 6k years old?) Or is it this is true but that is false kind of thing(ie the bible is an example and not word of god straight from god, but more people wrote it, and also changed things?)

Also Non-Christian and Christain rights are being taken away...however many Christain never use that right, so its not a big deal when its gone, but the Non-Christains do want that right so they feel as if they don't have it they are lacking a right(which i believe they are) Why do you care if a gay person is gay it doesn't hurt you? Let them be and if your so sure they are going to hell let them, what does it matter to you.(Also i don't think they are going to hell, but you from what I understand do)

[yg17]

i dont have a problem...

what i do have a problem is that you assume the behavior of a single christian to be the entire christianity's belief

while christian has its belief of abortion, you believe not... well, that's fine, go write to congressman, no one is stopping you

if you believe homosexuality should not be limited, go protest...

just because some christian go to the extent and do it, doesn't make them crazy and stupid... people have the right to fight for what they believe is right...


Hitler believed what he did was right. Osama believed what he does is right. And I think it's fair to say that they are crazy and stupid

[LethalWolfe]

Hitler believed what he did was right. Osama believed what he does is right. And I think it's fair to say that they are crazy and stupid
I don't think either one of them would be able to do what they did if they were stupid or crazy.


Lethal

[zap2]

I don't think either one of them would be able to do what they did if they were stupid or crazy.


Lethal


Crazy yes, Stupid no

[iSaint]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )

So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to convert people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

I haven't read any of the other responses. I'm a part-time youth minister. I'm VERY laid back and NOT in your face about my personal theology, ever. I feel there's so much more to be gained by respecting and learning about all religions and peoples.

As far as Christianity goes: what I believe God was trying to get across through Jesus was unconditional love. He threw out all the old laws, and made a new 'covenant' - love your neighbor as yourself.

That being said, it's more disheartening to hear you speak so angrily about another person, than it would be for me to see this person on the side of the road. This person is passionate about something. He could be a millionaire who has given up his life to tell his story. He could be mentally ill. No one really knows him unless you have talked to him. No one really knows anyone, and therefore cannot judge them, until you have made an effort to get to know them.

I don't care if you become a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything at all....as long as you take time to learn about other people and show them the respect you wish to be shown.

[leekohler]

oh i'm sorry people dont allow you to go to opposite sex's bathroom... that would be majority take the right away from minority, wouldn't it

america is found in majority rule, mostly... every tried to put in an amendment so that the least favoriate president candidate gets elected?

WHAT? What are you talking about? Why would I want go into the opposite sex's bathroom? You're making no sense.

America is NOT founded on majority rule either. If that were the case, slavery would still be in effect and George Bush wouldn't have gotten into the White House over Al Gore. Get real.

BTW-Check these links out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

Yes, it might be small, but these things are happening in the US. Look at all the links on Google you can find under "Christian reconstructionism". You might be shocked by what you find. Some Christians want us dead- legally.

[leekohler]

I haven't read any of the other responses. I'm a part-time youth minister. I'm VERY laid back and NOT in your face about my personal theology, ever. I feel there's so much more to be gained by respecting and learning about all religions and peoples.

As far as Christianity goes: what I believe God was trying to get across through Jesus was unconditional love. He threw out all the old laws, and made a new 'covenant' - love your neighbor as yourself.

That being said, it's more disheartening to hear you speak so angrily about another person, than it would be for me to see this person on the side of the road. This person is passionate about something. He could be a millionaire who has given up his life to tell his story. He could be mentally ill. No one really knows him unless you have talked to him. No one really knows anyone, and therefore cannot judge them, until you have made an effort to get to know them.

I don't care if you become a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything at all....as long as you take time to learn about other people and show them the respect you wish to be shown.

Why aren't there more like you? It makes me sad. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems you have allowed your religion to be hijacked by the extremists amongst you. I mean no disrespect. You are the kind of Christian I always thought was supposed to exist.

[iSaint]

~snip~ Abortion is not widely accepted among church groups. SO it's not a Christian stance. The Catholic, the Episcipol Church are just some of the many who condem it.

Actually the Episcopal Church (http://dfms.org) supports a woman's right to choice. I can't find the link. But, it's driving the conservatives crazy.

[iSaint]

Why aren't there more like you? It makes me sad. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems you have allowed your religion to be hijacked by the extremists amongst you. I mean no disrespect.

Thank you, Lee. I read (hear) no disrespect. The oddballs drive me crazy, and I don't practice what I preach like I should. But, I'm trying.

I want to say more, but I tend to stop posting after a few efforts in one thread. Maybe that's why I'm not so in your face about this and other topics.

[leekohler]

Thank you, Lee. I read (hear) no disrespect. The oddballs drive me crazy, and I don't practice what I preach like I should. But, I'm trying.

I want to say more, but I tend to stop posting after a few efforts in one thread. Maybe that's why I'm not so in your face about this and other topics.

It might be really good for you to be more "in your face" as it were. That's what we need here in this country- more folks like you to speak up.

[yg17]

I don't care if you become a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything at all....as long as you take time to learn about other people and show them the respect you wish to be shown.


I can't show this man respect though. Why? Because I know, that if I was to get out of my car and try to have a civil discussion, the second I said I was born a Jew but became Atheist, I'd be called a godless, jesus killer who will spend eternety in hell. I don't respect those who don't respect my beliefs.

[zap2]

Actually the Episcopal Church (http://dfms.org) supports a woman's right to choice. I can't find the link. But, it's driving the conservatives crazy.

I belief you(I mean why would you lie, we'd fine out soon enough) thats good to hear

[beatsme]

Crazy yes, Stupid no

excellent point. Hitler was many things...vindictive, charming, cynical, idealistic (in his own way), but certainly not stupid.

[LethalWolfe]

Why aren't there more like you? It makes me sad. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems you have allowed your religion to be hijacked by the extremists amongst you. I mean no disrespect. You are the kind of Christian I always thought was supposed to exist.

Just because some nutters are Xtrians doesn't mean all Christians are nutters. If you meet someone who's Islamic do you go, "Ah, crap another suicide bomber." Do you ask black people why they let people like Luis Farrakhan represent them?

It's not like all the denominations of Christianity are organized and have a central authority like the Catholics do. Even w/in a given denomination it can be a different experience on a church by church basis. I've been to churches that actively court (for lack of a better term) the gay community and I've been to churches that wouldn't accept my mother as a member because it was a Baptist church and she was baptized as a Methodist (:rolleyes:, needless to say we didn't attend that church again). I've been to a church that had a halloween party for the kids, and when I go home for Xmas I'll go w/my family to the nondenominational church that they've been going to for years now.

What you see as people "hijacking the religion" I think most christians (or at least everyone I know) dismiss as hate mongering nutters using religion to forward their own agendas. But as well all know loud mouthed nutters are more likely to get on the news than those that are not belligerent and of even keel.

That being said, I do really hate getting ambushed by some evangelizing jack@ss when I'm out for a walk or bike ride down by the beach.

Of course I don't know why I rambled on like this as I stay away from organized religion and can't even remember the last time I was in a church... (I like to say I have faith in god, not the in the church).

... okay, I figured out why I did ramble on like this. Most of my friends and family are Christian and typically do their best to treat everyone w/love and respect and to have them lumped into a "those people" category by people that don't even know them rubs me the wrong way a bit.

Now if I couldn't only figure out why I'm saying "nutter" so much... Mmm... nutter butters...


Lethal

[leekohler]

Just because some nutters are Xtrians doesn't mean all Christians are nutters. If you meet someone who's Islamic do you go, "Ah, crap another suicide bomber." Do you ask black people why they let people like Luis Farrakhan represent them?

It's not like all the denominations of Christianity are organized and have a central authority like the Catholics do. Even w/in a given denomination it can be a different experience on a church by church basis. I've been to churches that actively court (for lack of a better term) the gay community and I've been to churches that wouldn't accept my mother as a member because it was a Baptist church and she was baptized as a Methodist (:rolleyes:, needless to say we didn't attend that church again). I've been to a church that had a halloween party for the kids, and when I go home for Xmas I'll go w/my family to the nondenominational church that they've been going to for years now.

What you see as people "hijacking the religion" I think most christians (or at least everyone I know) dismiss as hate mongering nutters using religion to forward their own agendas. But as well all know loud mouthed nutters are more likely to get on the news than those that are not belligerent and of even keel.

That being said, I do really hate getting ambushed by some evangelizing jack@ss when I'm out for a walk or bike ride down by the beach.

Of course I don't know why I rambled on like this as I stay away from organized religion and can't even remember the last time I was in a church... (I like to say I have faith in god, not the in the church).

... okay, I figured out why I did ramble on like this. Most of my friends and family are Christian and typically do their best to treat everyone w/love and respect and to have them lumped into a "those people" category by people that don't even know them rubs me the wrong way a bit.

Now if I couldn't only figure out why I'm saying "nutter" so much... Mmm... nutter butters...


Lethal

Umm-actually yes, I do ask why black people let Louis (idiot) Farrakhan represent them. Why wouldn't I? And yes, I have questioned friends of mine who are islamic, mormon, etc. about the same things. All of these things trouble me. It's disturbing the number of people who belong to a religion, yet claim to not belong to the fringes. At the same time, I see them do nothing to counter those fringes. So forgive me when it appears to me that "normal" religious types seem to be complicit with the fringe.

[LethalWolfe]

Umm-actually yes, I do ask why black people let Louis (idiot) Farrakhan represent them.
I guess we have different interpretations of the use of the word "represent." I think of it in a more official/structured capacity. A position that people can be placed into and removed from.


All of these things trouble me. It's disturbing the number of people who belong to a religion, yet claim to not belong to the fringes. At the same time, I see them do nothing to counter those fringes. So forgive me when it appears to me that "normal" religious types seem to be complicit with the fringe.
I'm not meaning for this to sound flippant, but in your eyes what do the people who "claim to not belong to the fringes" need to do to not appear complicit?


Lethal

[iSaint]

I can't show this man respect though. Why? Because I know, that if I was to get out of my car and try to have a civil discussion, the second I said I was born a Jew but became Atheist, I'd be called a godless, jesus killer who will spend eternety in hell. I don't respect those who don't respect my beliefs.

You don't necessarily have to identify yourself as atheist, former Jew, or anything to learn about someone. Yes, I agree that this guy might have problems. But, how we approach someone (with an open mind, possibly, and wanting and willing to learn) is the big issue here. If you showed him respect, you might be surprised.

Feed him, then he'll talk to you.

[stoid]

Why aren't there more like you? It makes me sad. Forgive me for saying this, but it seems you have allowed your religion to be hijacked by the extremists amongst you. I mean no disrespect. You are the kind of Christian I always thought was supposed to exist.

I fully agree with you there. And I don't mean Christians with love instead of hate in their hearts, I mean open-minded people that are willing to listen to and befriend all types of people regardless of race, age, intelligence, sexuality, religion, etc.

When will people get it through their thick skulls that you don't have to agree with someone to get along with them? I think that if everyone shared my exact world view, I'd go insane out of sheer boredom.

The type of person that makes me the saddest is one that hears about another religion or way of life and responds by chuckling and mumbling something about it being crazy before changing the topic.

[pseudobrit]

i dont have a problem...

what i do have a problem is that you assume the behavior of a single christian to be the entire christianity's belief

while christian has its belief of abortion, you believe not... well, that's fine, go write to congressman, no one is stopping you

if you believe homosexuality should not be limited, go protest...

just because some christian go to the extent and do it, doesn't make them crazy and stupid... people have the right to fight for what they believe is right...

You've made a lot of assumptions about me and what I believe in. I am Roman Catholic and I understand the rights enumerated in the Constitution allow a woman the right to medical privacy and homosexuals equal access to government.

There shouldn't be a need to protest or fight for these things. These decisions were made over 130 years ago and if anyone wants to reverse them they can repeal the relevant parts of the Constitution.

[zap2]

I'll ask this, as it seems to go along with the main idea of asking Christians why they do the things they do...

Why do you feel you should ban gay marriage?(I Know not all Christian think this but many do) They are not hurting you by being gay are they? Live and Let live right? I'm pretty sure they know you think being gay is wrong, and most don't care...its not like by letting gay people marry its hurts straight people.

[mactastic]

Most of my friends and family are Christian and typically do their best to treat everyone w/love and respect and to have them lumped into a "those people" category by people that don't even know them rubs me the wrong way a bit.
Sadly we get people lumping people together all the time here. We just had someone saying all climate scientists have ponytails, we routinely hear that Islam is a religion of hate, or that one side or other of the political aisle is stupid etc etc.

In fact I saw one person who was upset that someone would generalize all Christians go into the community section and generalize about all Asian women on the same day. :rolleyes:

[Chundles]

Sadly we get people lumping people together all the time here. We just had someone saying all climate scientists have ponytails, we routinely hear that Islam is a religion of hate, or that one side or other of the political aisle is stupid etc etc.

In fact I saw one person who was upset that someone would generalize all Christians go into the community section and generalize about all Asian women on the same day. :rolleyes:

All generalisations are stupid. None of them are correct.

[Macaddicttt]

Umm-actually yes, I do ask why black people let Louis (idiot) Farrakhan represent them. Why wouldn't I? And yes, I have questioned friends of mine who are islamic, mormon, etc. about the same things. All of these things trouble me. It's disturbing the number of people who belong to a religion, yet claim to not belong to the fringes. At the same time, I see them do nothing to counter those fringes. So forgive me when it appears to me that "normal" religious types seem to be complicit with the fringe.

I think a big problem here is that "Christian" is too big a category. You ask why Christians choose idiots to lead them, but you misunderstand that only some Christians choose those guys as leaders. As you know, I'm Catholic. Who did we choose to be our leader? That's right. The pope. And while you don't have to agree with him, you have to admit that he's very smart, educated, and takes a very intelligent approach to issues.

I personally would like to denounce all the idiot "Christian" leaders like Billy Graham and Pat Robertson, but how do I do that? I don't have the national platform to proclaim as such. And we try to elect people who subscribe to our beliefs. Who was the Democratic nomination last election? A very moderate, mainstream Christian, not a right-wing evangelical fundamentalist.

The bottom line is that you can't group all Christians together. I, for one, am sick to death of evangelicals and speak out against them every time I have a chance. I try my best, but what else can I do?

[mactastic]

All generalisations are stupid. None of them are correct.
All Aussies are like that. It's just how they are.

[leekohler]

I think a big problem here is that "Christian" is too big a category. You ask why Christians choose idiots to lead them, but you misunderstand that only some Christians choose those guys as leaders. As you know, I'm Catholic. Who did we choose to be our leader? That's right. The pope. And while you don't have to agree with him, you have to admit that he's very smart, educated, and takes a very intelligent approach to issues.

I personally would like to denounce all the idiot "Christian" leaders like Billy Graham and Pat Robertson, but how do I do that? I don't have the national platform to proclaim as such. And we try to elect people who subscribe to our beliefs. Who was the Democratic nomination last election? A very moderate, mainstream Christian, not a right-wing evangelical fundamentalist.

The bottom line is that you can't group all Christians together. I, for one, am sick to death of evangelicals and speak out against them every time I have a chance. I try my best, but what else can I do?

I think you are doing exactly what you should. BUT, it would be nice to see people like you organize and fight the crazies. Does that make sense? If they can do it, certainly you can too.

[Macaddicttt]

I think you are doing exactly what you should. BUT, it would be nice to see people like you organize and fight the crazies. Does that make sense? If they can do it, certainly you can too.

Ah, but it's so much easier to mobilize the masses when you give them an easy black & white idea to follow. Who can get fired up about balanced reasonable thinking? Somehow I don't imagine the crowds eating out of the palm of your hand when you pull that one out.

I am thinking, though, that evangelicals are going far enough out on the right to warrant a backlash, so we can always hope for that.

[Stampyhead]

(yet another moronic anti-christian rant)
Dude, it's almost amusing how childishly anti christian you are. I've slogged through post after post in thread after thread of you getting angry at people who dare to profess Christian beliefs. Why? Did a Christian person wrong you in the past and now you feel you have to fight against anyone who has those beliefs? I'm sorry, I just don't understand. What happened to live and let live? Allowing people the right to religious freedom? So you don't believe in Christianity. Fine. Obviously it's not for everyone. I respect your right to feel that way. But those who feel it is for them certainly have the right to believe in it. You should make the effort to go out and meet some true Christians (i.e. people who believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ). The majority of Christians (I believe) are truly good people. They may not be as apparant as the psychotic ones because they tend to stay in the background and not do and say stupid and controversial things just to get on the evening news.
As to the gentleman you saw on the side of the road: Maybe he's crazy, maybe he just really likes Jesus and can't wait to get out and tell everyone. My question to you is; why does the fact that he had the word "Jesus" on his headband anger you so much? Perhaps it's time to confront the real reason behind whatever issues you have so you can learn to stop hating. Remember, Jesus said "A new commandment I give unto you. That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." (John 13:34)

[belvdr]

I think you are doing exactly what you should. BUT, it would be nice to see people like you organize and fight the crazies. Does that make sense? If they can do it, certainly you can too.

Lee, I step away for one second and you're causing trouble. :) :D

[leekohler]

Lee, I step away for one second and you're causing trouble. :) :D

Haha! Well isn't that my job? :D

[KingYaba]

Actually the Episcopal Church (http://dfms.org) supports a woman's right to choice. I can't find the link. But, it's driving the conservatives crazy.
That is something I did not know, I left the faith, and the church about seven years ago. I have not kept abreast of their stances very well. So I'm wrong. Good find

Least I can say the Catholic church still stands against abortion? :p Or have they flip flopped too?

[Don't panic]

You're missing my point. A Christian would say atheist's beliefs are being legislated. ;)

but s/he would be wrong ;)

[takao]

Least I can say the Catholic church still stands against abortion? :p Or have they flip flopped too?

yep .. and most catholics do what they always did: they simply don't care ... at least around here ;)

and it's not a election deciding topic ... neither is evolution

[iSaint]

That is something I did not know, I left the faith, and the church about seven years ago. I have not kept abreast of their stances very well. So I'm wrong. Good find

Least I can say the Catholic church still stands against abortion? :p Or have they flip flopped too?

TEC (http://dfms.org) is going through a lot of grief right now because of its liberal stance on many issues. Personally, I find it kind of liberating.

[KingYaba]

and it's not a election deciding topic ... neither is evolution
It's terrorism! :(

Did a Christian person wrong you in the past
Several. But this question wasn't geared towards me, was it.

The majority of Christians (I believe) are truly good people.
They certainly are. A prime example would be how the nation's congregations stepped up after Katrina. :cool:

My question to you is; why does the word "Jesus" anger you so much? I think you should be asking that question instead mr. Stampyhead.

[xsedrinam]

Originally Posted by Stampyhead
The majority of Christians (I believe) are truly good people.

They certainly are. A prime example would be how the nation's congregations stepped up after Katrina. :cool:


In defense of the faith based organizational responses to Katrina, and if your statement is sacrcasm, then it does a defaming disservice to the thousands of mobilized faith based organizations and people who not only set in motion short term relief, took vacation and extended time off from their jobs and volunteered to go there and be with the people where it was allowed. They provided networks of distribution and short term planning, but also continue to be hands on in reconstruction projects, and have made their homes places of refuge for the hurting victims. They outshone incompetent, red taped and bureaucratic, bogged down government agencies. Without asking for ink, face time or compensation, these people deserve anything but derision.

The whole straw argument gets old. If I'm looking for ideal models in a car, I'd visit Mercedes or Porsche and site what's excellent in their distinctive. Pulling up examples of nuts and charlatans as models of the ideal is as inconsistent as dismissing an ideal car based on the history of Edsel, Corvair, and the junkyard.

I'm not beating any particular drum for the "yeah Jesus people" or the "yeah whoever ain'ts" and especially not trying to taint altruistic demonstrations of compassion with political partisanship. But I do think there are some good people of faith out there who aren't looney, are compassionate at their core and are involved in behind the scenes greatness. ::Obligatory IMhO

[Demoman]

I think a big problem here is that "Christian" is too big a category. You ask why Christians choose idiots to lead them, but you misunderstand that only some Christians choose those guys as leaders. As you know, I'm Catholic. Who did we choose to be our leader? That's right. The pope. And while you don't have to agree with him, you have to admit that he's very smart, educated, and takes a very intelligent approach to issues.

I personally would like to denounce all the idiot "Christian" leaders like Billy Graham and Pat Robertson, but how do I do that? I don't have the national platform to proclaim as such. And we try to elect people who subscribe to our beliefs. Who was the Democratic nomination last election? A very moderate, mainstream Christian, not a right-wing evangelical fundamentalist.

The bottom line is that you can't group all Christians together. I, for one, am sick to death of evangelicals and speak out against them every time I have a chance. I try my best, but what else can I do?

Well spoken. I am one who sees the fundamentalist christian extremists as the single most imposing threat to America, even more than Al Queda. Bin Laden can threaten us from afar, these other folk can destroy us from within.

I do not see the Christian faiths of my youth (Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc) as the same group of people. The fundamentalists are more from the Baptist, Pentecostal ilk.

In my opinion, Christ was not a hater and full of fear, anger, and deceit. So, I fail to see how these people can embrace his image and deny his message.

[solvs]

In my opinion, Christ was not a hater and full of fear, anger, and deceit. So, I fail to see how these people can embrace his image and deny his message.
Yes, those who actually know of him knew he was against those who would do and say such things. He was against the corrupt politicians and religious leaders who would use people's beliefs to gain money and power. But many of those who speak so loudly of religion aren't religious. They just hide behind religion to justify their thought and actions. A true Christian (or Muslim) doesn't need to wear a Bible on their sleeves. They show their beliefs by what they do, not what they say. They do things because they're the right things to do, not because they think some book told them to. They recognize that they aren't perfect, and neither is anyone else, so there is mercy and forgiveness.

But people are so turned off by the actions of the virulently vocal few that there's a backlash against the whole group. For those who judge all Christians by the actions and words of even the majority, let alone the fundamentalist minority, remember how wrong it is when others do that to the Muslim community. ;)

[Stampyhead]

I think you should be asking that question instead mr. Stampyhead.
I did ask that question. :confused:

In my opinion, Christ was not a hater and full of fear, anger, and deceit. So, I fail to see how these people can embrace his image and deny his message.
Exactly what I was trying to say. A true Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ, not one who just goes around saying "Jesus" all day long. You will know a true Christian by the way he acts.

[KingYaba]

I thought the cool emoticon was an indication that I was not being sarcastic in my remarks regarding the Katrina aid. I fully applaud churches for stepping up in their time of need. No sarcasm in that comment at all.

[xsedrinam]

I thought the cool emoticon was an indication that I was not being sarcastic in my remarks regarding the Katrina aid. I fully applaud churches for stepping up in their time of need. No sarcasm in that comment at all.
Sorry, KingYaba. I get the :cool: mixed up with the :rolleyes: sometimes, and tend to speak fluent vague. My ramblings were't directed at you, personally, though I did key off the original statement. My bad.

[dukebound85]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )

So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to convert people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?


Haha, being a Christain I too am dumbfounded by this. Walking through capus is like this too. I think it scares more people away if anything. I dunno I kinda laugh at it. Its just like the radical muslims compared to the "normal" ones


Also, one day I would wish I could walk through campus without being mugged by save the environment, save the children groups, and safer- which is trying to get the penalties of weed to be the same as alcohol in colorado


I say make alcohol penalties the same as weed is seriously and i am over 21.
As for all those groups, sure they are great causes but day after day after every f'in day getting asked if i have a minute for the environment really gets old. I see those people (impossible not to as they are like guards on high traffic walking areas) and if i want to talk ill come to you.

Same with the mormons trying to convert me


All i ask is to be let alone so i can walk to class and listen to my ipod. too much to ask? yes it sure it lol

[KingYaba]

Sorry, KingYaba. I get the :cool: mixed up with the :rolleyes: sometimes, and tend to speak fluent vague. My ramblings were't directed at you, personally, though I did key off the original statement. My bad.
No prob.

[tobefirst]

I can't show this man respect though. Why? Because I know, that if I was to get out of my car and try to have a civil discussion, the second I said I was born a Jew but became Atheist, I'd be called a godless, jesus killer who will spend eternety in hell. I don't respect those who don't respect my beliefs.
Sorry for being late to the game on this one. I usually don't poke around in this section...or at least don't respond all that often.

It seems like, yg17, you're caught in a catch-22 and are determined on being the more stubborn of the two in this situation at least, and, from your tone, most "similar" situations as well.

This man has done nothing to disrespect you as a person, nor your beliefs. Yet you are insulting to this person, claiming he's "act like a dumbass."

Furthermore, in the post I quoted above, you say that you won't respect those who don't respect your belief. You haven't even given this guy a chance to respect your belief, so why are you disrespecting (insulting) to this guy?

It is clear you want him to respect you and your beliefs [I]before you respect him. How is anyone supposed to respect anyone that way? It's a catch-22. What's worse is that you choose to disrespect this man before allowing him a chance to respect you.

[coffey7]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )

So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to convert people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

Its kind of dumb to link 1 crazy guy with a whole bunch of people. Its like saying every liberal democrat is gay. Why don't you go watch some of your "BUSH bombed the towers videos"

[zap2]

Its kind of dumb to link 1 crazy guy with a whole bunch of people. Its like saying every liberal democrat is gay. Why don't you go watch some of your "BUSH bombed the towers videos"


Wow..not all democrats think that, in fact few do. Honestly why did you bring this thread back up?


Also I did get a reason on why Christians(not all Churches but most we covered one that doesn't) want to strip people of their rights?

[KingYaba]

I have to admit, ferretboy made me laugh in that last post. :p

[yg17]

[SIZE="1"]

This man has done nothing to disrespect you as a person, nor your beliefs. Yet you are insulting to this person, claiming he's "act[ing] like a dumbass."


He disrespected me the second he preached to me, and tried to shove his beliefs down my throat. I have my own religious beliefs and am happy with them, anyone who tries to change them is personally disrespecting me.

And anyone who runs through a busy street with a blindfold on is a dumbass, regardless of what point they're trying to get across.

[CorvusCamenarum]

He disrespected me the second he preached to me, and tried to shove his beliefs down my throat. I have my own religious beliefs and am happy with them, anyone who tries to change them is personally disrespecting me.

I'm sorry, but that's just crap. Unless you're walking about with a sign stapled to your forehead that says "Athiest, do not approach", the guy, even though he admittedly has a screw loose, has no way of knowing whether or not you'd be interested in hearing what he has to say. Telling you once is not disrespecting you. If you tell him you're not interested and he keeps at it, that's a different story, but your post mentioned nothing of the sort.

It's been a long time since I've set foot in a church myself, but isn't one of the tenets of the Christian faith to go and spread the word? If you want others to be more tolerant of your views, maybe you can do the same. Just say you're not interested and keep going, no harm, no foul.

[tobefirst]

If you tell him you're not interested and he keeps at it, that's a different story, but your post mentioned nothing of the sort.
In fact, his post never mentioned that the guy was talking to him at all. I think you're being far too sensitive, yg17, but that is, of course, just my opinion.

[aquajet]

In fact, his post never mentioned that the guy was talking to him at all.

True, only that the guy was talking about some "Jesus mumbo jumbo".

I think your comments are quite revealing, and I have to wonder whether or not you are interested at all in reciprocating any sort of respect towards others who like to talk about their beliefs that you don't agree with, even if it is only a bit of friendly conversation. Imagine how boring the world would be if we kept our feelings to ourselves.

[tobefirst]

True, only that the guy was talking about some "Jesus mumbo jumbo".

I think your comments are quite revealing, and I have to wonder whether or not you are interested at all in reciprocating any sort of respect towards others who like to talk about their beliefs that you don't agree with, even if it is only a bit of friendly conversation. Imagine how boring the world would be if we kept our feelings to ourselves.
I'm assuming that the "your" in the second paragraph is directed at yg17? I'm confused because you quoted me, but sound like you're talking about the OP. Clarify?

[mactastic]

It's been a long time since I've set foot in a church myself, but isn't one of the tenets of the Christian faith to go and spread the word? If you want others to be more tolerant of your views, maybe you can do the same. Just say you're not interested and keep going, no harm, no foul.
What if one of the tenets of homosexuality was to go and try to gain converts? Would you simply say your are not interested and keep going, no harm, no foul; or would you feel like someone was trying to push something that you didn't agree with on you?

[CorvusCamenarum]

What if one of the tenets of homosexuality was to go and try to gain converts? Would you simply say your are not interested and keep going, no harm, no foul; or would you feel like someone was trying to push something that you didn't agree with on you?

The first time, yes, that's exactly what I'd do. If the guy persisted I'd get a little more creative in telling him to bugger off.

Unlike some, I actually practice what I preach.

[mactastic]

The first time, yes, that's exactly what I'd do. If the guy persisted I'd get a little more creative in telling him to bugger off.

Unlike some, I actually practice what I preach.
Ok, but can you see some Christians reacting the same as the OP, were they put in that situation?

Actually we don't have to imagine much, we've got iGary's story about the Dwyer supporter he encountered as a guide...

[Peace]

So today, I'm driving home from class. I go to college in Rolla, Missouri. A poor, white trash, conservative hellhole. There is some guy on the side of the road, walking back and forth with a giant cross, yelling out some jesus mumbo-jumbo, and wearing a blindfold that says jesus on it (smart thing to do on the side of a busy street :rolleyes: )

So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? I don't remember "Thou must act like a dumbass to promote thy religion" as being one of the 10 commandments. And if their goal is to convert people, then why are they doing something that will only make more people hate them?

I normally wouldn't answer such a question but..

There are stupid people all over the world..
Why would a non-christian jump off a bridge?
Why would a non-christian walk into some building and kill 10 people?
Why do the mentally ill walk around streets doing "stupid" things?

Stupid people doing things aren't just christians.It's just that when a christian does a stupid thing they are singled out because our society has a pre conceived view of what a christian is supposed to behave like based on really bad media press over the past oh...1000 years..

If you would ever read the old testament you would see a lot of prophets doing "stupid" things..

Try not to judge a book by it's cover..

Walk over to that stupid person and try to have a objective conversation.If what that stupid person has to say doesn't jive with you walk away and think of the person as just another stupid person.

THEN

Find a mentally ill person ( non-christian type ) walking around some street and do the same..

Christians,like all human beings, aren't perfect. Only forgiven..

[aquajet]

I'm assuming that the "your" in the second paragraph is directed at yg17? I'm confused because you quoted me, but sound like you're talking about the OP. Clarify?

Yes, you're correct. Sorry about that. :o

[CorvusCamenarum]

Ok, but can you see some Christians reacting the same as the OP, were they put in that situation?

Actually we don't have to imagine much, we've got iGary's story about the Dwyer supporter he encountered as a guide...

The difference there is that he baited the woman, and freely admitted to it. The OP's experience didn't even involve a conversation, he just drove past and saw the guy.

To the woman's credit, and I use that term in a loose manner, she didn't try to convert iGary, tell him he was going to burn in hell, arrange for a squad of deprogrammer ministers to show up on his door, or any of that. She just left.

[yg17]

Everyone's thinking I have a problem with this guy because he's Christian. He could've been anything....Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, and I still would have said what I did, because frankly, ANYONE who acts in the manner this guy did and puts himself in danger like this guy did is a dumbass. The fact he was trying to convert people to Christianity is a minor detail, it could've been any religion or cause, and he's still a schmuck.

[mactastic]

The difference there is that he baited the woman, and freely admitted to it. The OP's experience didn't even involve a conversation, he just drove past and saw the guy.
So what you're saying then, is that while it is possible for a non-Christian to react poorly to Christian advances, it is not possible for a Christian to react poorly to homosexual advances?

To the woman's credit, and I use that term in a loose manner, she didn't try to convert iGary, tell him he was going to burn in hell, arrange for a squad of deprogrammer ministers to show up on his door, or any of that. She just left.
If that's what you want to call a "no harm, no foul" reaction...

[aquajet]

If that's what you want to call a "no harm, no foul" reaction...

Well, it could have been much worse. She could have pulled a Fred on poor iGary... :(

[tobefirst]

Everyone's thinking I have a problem with this guy because he's Christian. He could've been anything....Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, and I still would have said what I did, because frankly, ANYONE who acts in the manner this guy did and puts himself in danger like this guy did is a dumbass. The fact he was trying to convert people to Christianity is a minor detail, it could've been any religion or cause, and he's still a schmuck.
Could this (below) be why people are thinking that?
So, my question to any Christians here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Christianity get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars? (emphasis mine)

[yg17]

Could this (below) be why people are thinking that?
(emphasis mine)

Possibly, but say this guy was Jewish, it would have read:

So, my question to any Jews here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Judaism get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars?

[tobefirst]

Possibly, but say this guy was Jewish, it would have read:

So, my question to any Jews here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Judaism get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars?
Then, I believe that it comes across, at least a little bit, that you have something against Jews. The reason for that is, I believe, two-fold. As other people have illustrated, you have cited something that isn't unique to Christianity, nor universally Christian. Rather, it is one guy who happens to be Christian.

Also, the second part, "Why in the hell do your people..." is not the most friendliest of tones, and one in which separates you from them, and, by the tone and context, seems to place the group you're talking about beneath yourself.

That is how it's being read...for better or worse.

For the record, I've taken no offense as a Christian at your statements at all. You can choose to EDIT: [like or dislike] anyone you want to. My role here has just been to point out things that have been said, and to wonder aloud about their reasoning, or perhaps challenge you or others as to why things are that way.

[CorvusCamenarum]

So what you're saying then, is that while it is possible for a non-Christian to react poorly to Christian advances, it is not possible for a Christian to react poorly to homosexual advances?

If that's what you want to call a "no harm, no foul" reaction...

I can't see how you arrived at that conclusion. In the above example, the woman could have gone off on Gary. Instead she walked/drove away. She obviously didn't agree with his lifestyle. Fine, that's her right. It was also her right to leave, at least until our right of free association gets taken away in the name of "tolerance". Had she done anything else, gotten argumentative, belligerent, etc., then I would characterize that as reacting poorly.

What boils down to "sorry, I don't agree with you and I'm leaving," is indeed no harm, no foul.

[mactastic]

I can't see how you arrived at that conclusion.
Well, I asked you if you could understand that an average Christian (unlike yourself who purports to practice what they preach) could have a reaction similar to our OP's here, and I, jocularly, cited iGary's experience as a guide, at which point you gave a spirited defense that made no reference in any way to the possibility existing that a Christian might have a similarly regrettable reaction to advances by a homosexual.

Since you wouldn't answer my question in the original format, I tried another approach.

How about this: iGary's experience really shouldn't need to be cited in your response.

[thedude110]

Everyone's thinking I have a problem with this guy because he's Christian.

Possibly, but say this guy was Jewish, it would have read:

So, my question to any Jews here is....why? Why in the hell do your people find the need to do such stupid things...what gains does Judaism get by some [guy] standing on the side of the road, putting his life in danger, to yell things at passing cars?

Let me be honest, yg17. When I read your first post, I reported the thread. Your tone seemed insensitive at best, baiting at worst (the accusation inherent in "your people," to begin with).

[Macaddicttt]

The thread title and vein of thought of the OP isn't much different than, "Can a black person please answer something for me......"