Wartime Powers of the POTUS

[mactastic]

This article (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/10/INGKSKV5TR1.DTL&hw=bob+egelko&sn=001&sc=1000) about the power grab by Bush contained this quote that caught my eye:
"We are used to a peacetime system in which Congress enacts the laws, the president enforces them, and the courts interpret them. In wartime, the gravity shifts to the executive branch.''
That is from John Yoo, one of the chief legal counsels to the POTUS. He is purported to be a constitutional scholar. Apparently he didn't get the memo that the constitution doesn't contain provisions that grant more power to the executive at any time, including wartime.

Oh, and he must be an uber-liberal, since he comes from Berkeley. Right?

[Thomas Veil]

Problem, of course, is that historically presidents have taken more power, without being challenged, in wartime. Even Abraham freaking Lincoln suspended habeus corpus.

Guys like Bush see that as a precedent that allows them to do the same -- no matter what the Constitution says.

I haven't a clue how we reverse that perception.

[Thanatoast]

I still don't see how W can be a "wartime" president if the Congress never declared war.

Here's (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/five-years-after-911-dr_b_29181.html) a great piece about how the war is nothing more than a specifc and political use of language in order to reenforce the perception that the president must not be questioned on his decisions.

Quoted in part:Language matters, because it can determine how we think and act.

For a few hours after the towers fell on 9/11, administration spokesmen referred to the event as a "crime." Indeed, Colin Powell argued within the administration that it be treated as a crime.

This would have involved international crime-fighting techniques: checking banks accounts, wire-tapping, recruiting spies and informants, engaging in diplomacy, cooperating with intelligence agencies in other governments, and if necessary, engaging in limited "police actions" with military force. Indeed, such methods have been the most successful so far in dealing with terrorism.

But the crime frame did not prevail in the Bush administration. Instead, a war metaphor was chosen: the "War on Terror." Literal --not metaphorical -- wars are conducted against armies of other nations. They end when the armies are defeated militarily and a peace treaty is signed. Terror is an emotional state. It is in us. It is not an army. And you can't defeat it militarily and you can't sign a peace treaty with it.

The war metaphor was chosen for political reasons. First and foremost, it was chosen for the domestic political reasons. The war metaphor defined war as the only way to defend the nation. From within the war metaphor, being against war as a response was to be unpatriotic, to be against defending the nation. The war metaphor put progressives on the defensive. Once the war metaphor took hold, any refusal to grant the president full authority to conduct the war would open progressives in Congress to the charge of being unpatriotic, unwilling to defend America, defeatist. And once the military went into battle, the war metaphor created a new reality that reinforced the metaphor.Great read.

[KingYaba]

I still don't see how W can be a "wartime" president if the Congress never declared war.

The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq)
Maybe some interpret that as a declaration.

[Thanatoast]

The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq)
Maybe some interpret that as a declaration.
These seem to be the relevent bits.SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed
Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and
appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States
against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) Presidential Determination.--In connection with the exercise of
the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President
shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible,
but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make
available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the
President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--
(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or
other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately
protect the national security of the United States against the
continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to
enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq; and
(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent
with the United States and other countries continuing to take
the necessary actions against international terrorist and
terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations,
or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the
terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.Subsection A deals entirely with Iraq and it's now coming out in the press that the president and his cadre knew ahead of time that Iraq was powerless and were cherry-picking evidence in order to sell the war. Sounds bad.

Subsection B says that he's supposed to be using the military to fight terrorists. Well, now that he's gotten into Iraq, terrorists have sprouted and he now has the legal justification to be there, though he seems to be shirking his law-bound duty to take necesarry actions against those...who planned...the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 But it could be argued that in invading Iraq on false pretenses (a crime in and of itself) interfered with his duty to execute Subsection B.

In fact, I think we should hang him.

[leekohler]

These seem to be the relevent bits.Subsection A deals entirely with Iraq and it's now coming out in the press that the president and his cadre knew ahead of time that Iraq was powerless and were cherry-picking evidence in order to sell the war. Sounds bad.

Subsection B says that he's supposed to be using the military to fight terrorists. Well, now that he's gotten into Iraq, terrorists have sprouted and he now has the legal justification to be there, though he seems to be shirking his law-bound duty to take necesarry actions against those...who planned...the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 But it could be argued that in invading Iraq on false pretenses (a crime in and of itself) interfered with his duty to execute Subsection B.

In fact, I think we should hang him.

I agree. And then we should drag his body through the streets.

[Demoman]

These seem to be the relevent bits.Subsection A deals entirely with Iraq and it's now coming out in the press that the president and his cadre knew ahead of time that Iraq was powerless and were cherry-picking evidence in order to sell the war. Sounds bad.

Subsection B says that he's supposed to be using the military to fight terrorists. Well, now that he's gotten into Iraq, terrorists have sprouted and he now has the legal justification to be there, though he seems to be shirking his law-bound duty to take necesarry actions against those...who planned...the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 But it could be argued that in invading Iraq on false pretenses (a crime in and of itself) interfered with his duty to execute Subsection B.

In fact, I think we should hang him.

An interesting side note, after several centuries, the British dug up the grave of Oliver Cromwell and hung him. Considering the unfaithful stewardship we have practiced for the past couple centuries, more than a few of our leaders may get their 'bones rattled' by future generations. They have certainly earned that distinction.

[Thanatoast]

I agree. And then we should drag his body through the streets.
Except that I'm serious.

Whereas the president knowingly used false and unreliable intelligence in making a case for war,

Whereas the resulting military action has so far killed over 2700 American soldiers, wounded over 19,000

Whereas untold thousands of civilian deaths of Iraqi citizens have occured as a consequence of his misuse of the Naitonal Armed Services,

Whereas this war has cost the taxpayers over two hundred and fifty billion dollars,

Whereas the President has continued to use false and misleading statements concerning the conections between Iraq and his true target of al-Qaeda,

Whereas the President, in succesfully leading the nation into an aggresive war of choice, distracted the nation and took vital resources from the goals killing and capturing the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks,

It is hereby resolved that he should be hanged by the neck until he is dead.

[skunk]

Amen to that.

[Thomas Veil]

Well, that is a traditional punishment for treason, isn't it?

[Queso]

Sending him to Guantanemo would be a more fitting punishment :rolleyes:

[takao]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war


from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war#Current_declarations

"North and South Korea have remained legally at war since the Korean War.
Israel has been at war with Lebanon and Syria since the Yom Kippur War.
Having refused to sign the 1949 Armistice Agreements, Iraq has remained in a state of war with Israel ever since.
Armenia and Azerbaijan remain deadlocked on the issue of Nagorno-Karabakh and have yet to find a peaceful resolution.
Russia and Japan technically never ended their state of war following World War II. The Kuril Islands dispute is the current obstacle to the signing of a peace treaty.
The Netherlands has never signed a peace treaty with Portugal after a conflict in 1567; thus, the two are technically still at war with each other. "

[mischief]

Except that I'm serious.

Whereas the president knowingly used false and unreliable intelligence in making a case for war,

Whereas the resulting military action has so far killed over 2700 American soldiers, wounded over 19,000

Whereas untold thousands of civilian deaths of Iraqi citizens have occured as a consequence of his misuse of the Naitonal Armed Services,

Whereas this war has cost the taxpayers over two hundred and fifty billion dollars,

Whereas the President has continued to use false and misleading statements concerning the conections between Iraq and his true target of al-Qaeda,

Whereas the President, in succesfully leading the nation into an aggresive war of choice, distracted the nation and took vital resources from the goals killing and capturing the perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks,

It is hereby resolved that he should be hanged by the neck until he is dead.

Whereas the President, in direct violation of the abiding statute has conducted the military in such a manner as to further undermine National Security by uniting America's enemies under one banner.

Whereas the President has willfully and unlawfully maintained intelligence proceedings and operations in direct violation of international law.

Whereas the President, Vice President and other members of the Executive cabinet have willfully and unlawfully obstructed, obfuscated and outright lied to Congress in regards to their relationships with a number of illegal or and/or unethical actions, decisions, contractors and policies.

Whereas the President has violated his Oath of Office, his Mandate and the trust of the voting public.

It is by these actions that we, The People condemn George Walker Bush, his Cabinet and his cabal of Neoconservative Industrialist Fascists to be stripped of their official positions, their citizenship and their priviledges of residing within the United States and it's allied Nations.

[Queso]

It is by these actions that we, The People condemn George Washington Bush, his Cabinet and his cabal of Neoconservative Industrialist Fascists to be stripped of their official positions, their citizenship and their priviledges of residing within the United States and it's alied Nations.
It's George Walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_w_bush) Bush. The rest of it would be nice though. If only.....

[mischief]

It's George Walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_w_bush) Bush. The rest of it would be nice though. If only.....

Sonovabitch! Yer right. How did I get that mixed up?:confused: :eek:

[skunk]

Sonovabitch! Yer right. How did I get that mixed up?:confused: :eek:So easy to confuse George Bush with George Washington, isn't it? You'll be calling him George Winston Bush next.

[Ugg]

So easy to confuse George Bush with George Washington, isn't it? You'll be calling him George Winston Bush next.

and his wife, Kate.

[mischief]

So easy to confuse George Bush with George Washington, isn't it? You'll be calling him George Winston Bush next.

I think I was the victim of faulty initial data way back in 1999. Garbage in, Garbage out.;)

[KingYaba]

Sending him to Guantanemo would be a more fitting punishment :rolleyes:
Punish 'em by making him listen to the Red Hot Chili Peppers at loud volumes in a cold room. :D :D :D That was such a funny story.