Apple Tablet Coming? [Archive]

Vector

Mar 30, 2003, 01:38 PM

A rumor from Spymac, well that must be reliable. Tablet pcs do not sell that well, so unless this thing has something revolutionary about it I doubt that it will come out. There have been reports of apple employees using such devices internally for at least three years, so I do not see why it would be coming any time soon since the last hundred rumors about this fell through.

How many people would really buy this anyway? If it is priced similarly to the pc ones and about the same size I would not want one. I have tried writing on the pc tablets and it is very inconvenient in both its speed and the way you have to position your hand to write on the screen. I have a hard enough time writing on my newton because of its thickness and writing on tablets is far harder in my case.

Does anyone who has actually used a tablet pc think that it is anymore useful than a subnotebook or a new pda? I cannot think of anything that I could do easier or more effieciently on a tablet than could on either of the aforementioned devices. Anyone who has tried holding one of these tablets and writing on it at the same time knows that it is really not easy and it is often harder than writing on paper. So the easiest way to use them is when they are on a table, but then why not just use a notebook or paper.

2COOL4SCHOOL

Mar 30, 2003, 01:49 PM

I would love to get a new Apple tablet that size. I have had several Palm and Visor hand helds (They are OK, but only the brand new ones even come close to matching the 5yr old Newton I got on ebay for $50). The Newtons larger size is a good thing, more space to wright on. If the new tablet is apx the same size, I say great.
G3 would be outstanding, but I would take whatever Apple offers. I agree that 5hrs of battery sounds a little skimpy but if you can have extra batteries, that might be ok. Check email, play music, take notes, apt.s, inkwell, and bluetooth (Keyboard @ Mouse) would be a good start. I know S.J. said no pda's and I understand why, but this tablet could be so much more. Apple reinvented the walkman for the modern age, maybe they can do the same for the pda / tablet. Bring it on!

Vector

Mar 30, 2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by GeeYouEye
Given how often this rumor surfaces, and given that it's been wrong every single time, and given how unlikely it is that anything will ever come out of it, shouldn't it be relegated to Page 2 by now?

Oh and one more thing (pun semi-intended): an 8.5 inch diagonal screen is the same size as the eMate, and possibly one of the earlier Newtons. I have a feeling what's been seen is one of them, especially given the IrDA port and the black enclosure. The only thing difficult to explain would be the backlit screen, but I've seen a Newton modded with LEDs to make the screen brighter, a la most Nokia cell phones.

Why would the backlit screen be difficult to explain? I have an eMate 300 and it is backlit. The newton 130, 2000, and 2100 were also backlit, the h1000, 110, and 120 were not backlit. The eMate, or at least mine, has a 7in diagonal screen, that is backlit greyscale. Also i would hope that someone would be able to tell the difference between an eMate and a new tablet, as the emate is made more like a mini notebook in which the screen folds down to close like a notebook. THe eMate also has a built in handle that would be noticable. The eMate can look similar to a tablet if the screen is folded all the way back but there is still a keyboard so it should be obvious that it is not a tablet.

Mr. Anderson

Mar 30, 2003, 01:53 PM

Full technical specifications are not available at this time, though battery life is said to be targeted for up to five hours and the unit is operated via touchscreen and displayed keyboard. A docking station, which will include an external keyboard and mouse, will be available for an additional charge.

The more 'bells and whistles' you put on the thing, the worse the batterylife is going to be. If they can pull off 5 hours that will be great - but the catch all here is upto.....

I'm going to take a wait and see approach on this one.

D

Luigi

Mar 30, 2003, 02:04 PM

Let see what we have based on rumors and facts:

(1) Apple is making something small, tablet sized.
(1) SB hated/hates the Newton and pulled the plug on it
(1) SB said Apple will not make/believes in PDAs
(1) Apple only wants one OS
(1) iBook being discontinued (check this link
http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=1906 )
(1) What ever Apple makes is real cool and usefull to someone some where

From here I am ASSuME:
Apple is coming out with a Hybird tablet of some type to replace the iBook
Powered by a G3
No CD/DVD (but supported via USB/FW)
30/40 GB HD
OS X (or some version of it. OS X is really *nix so some of the extras could be cut out)
Blue tooth
USB & Firewire (one of each)
Extreme Air port
10/100 NIC
Modem (not sure about this one)
256MB RAM (maybe 512)
All the iApps installed
Inkwell based HWR
Great battery life
For home users/schools/sciences
Only 1 version fully loaded for $999
Annoucment 4/1/03 8:30am on www.apple.com
Shipping 4/15/03

Lou G.

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
...I'm going to take a wait and see approach on this one.

As opposed to what other option? I think we all have to take this approach.;)

I find it amusing when other people on this thread say that the release of this "iWhatever' is unlikely, simply because rumors [they're called rumors for a reason] of this have surfaced before.:rolleyes:

So what?! Timing is everything. I would prefer that Apple hold off on releasing a new DLD, or for that matter any product introduction, until market conditions are right.

I believe SJ has made his opposition to PDA's [in their current form] so public because Apple has known that they can be so much more and that they would be the first to market with it.

It may bare functions and a resemblance to existing devices, but it's what's under the hood that counts.

Come on people, this is Apple. As mentioned in some other posts, Apple will revolutionize this market. Actually, I would be inclined to speculate that this "iThing" will probably revolutionize several markets. The same way the iPod is much more than an MP3 player, offering portable firewire harddrive and quasi PDA capabilities by syncing with iCal and Address Book and even displaying the ability to play low end games. BTW, I'm sure there's more to be introduced for the original iPod in terms of features to compliment the rumored increase in hard drive capacity.

This "iHybrid" will be the cool bastard child of several input and convenience devices. "iBastard"?!:p

Apple proved that it can overtake a semi-non-computer related market with the iPod. It's awesome that home electronics stores [and others] have started selling iPods [Target, BestBuy, The Good Guys...DELL?!:D , etc.] because it appeals to so many people who may not be willing to traffic a computer store for something that they may not know what to do with. This way, when Joe Shmoe is on a family outing at one of these stores, and little Billy starts carrying on about an iPod while his working class wife, Mary Jane:cool:, starts clammering on about this new "iDevice", Joe will subconsciuosly start becoming more aware of Apple gadgets which have all acted as mini Trojan Horses into traditionally Windows computer households. Later, when Joe decides to buy a new computer, he will be a lot more likely to, at least, consider a Mac because of the Apple name and logo recognition which has been implemented in the Schmoe home by other means.

Apple Computer, Inc. will become a household name [in the words of Malcolm X] "By Any Means Necessary"!

Get the big picture here ya'll? This is somewhat beyond us loyal Mac users. It is still very much about Switchers.:)

We may moan and groan prior to Apple's releases, but the likelyhood that we will purchase in the end, or at least be supportive of the product introduction, is very high. It's not blind faith either. I feel that for most of us it's an educated decision. After all, we are smart enough to be Mac users to begin with!:)

We should be proud of the fact that we have come to a realization a lot sooner than the Windows drone Switchers did, or will.:cool:

3G4N

Mar 30, 2003, 02:24 PM

consumer / professional
iMac ---> PowerMac
iBook ---> PowerBook
iPod ---> PowerPod
iMovie ---> Final Cut Pro
iDVD ---> DVD Studio Pro

not that i believe spymac, but the one thing I think is
missing from my lovely 5gb iPod is input -- away
from a computer, an iPod is an output-only (read only) device
(music, ro-address book, ro-calendar, ro-todo list).
Even a microphone fw plug would do the trick for me --
voice annotations that I can deal with later, dealt with
like songs -- it's got the frau-mp3 encoders onboard,
and ripping capability right?

michaelyoung

Mar 30, 2003, 02:33 PM

How can this article be posted here without reference to the blunder that put SpyMac on the map.

iWalk anyone?

kylos

Mar 30, 2003, 02:40 PM

Spymac sure did a bad job with that tablet. I don't want a device targetted specifically to households; it has to be useful in all areas.

I'm starting to make my computer very speakable, using scripts to automate a lot of things. For the most part, I've had good success with voice recognition on my mac (except for occasionally trying to logout when I said no such thing). With the rumors about enhanced hardware-based speech recognition, I think we might bypass pen and keyboard and tell the computer what we think. Of course, pen input would be available so you won't interrupt meetings by telling your tablet what you think of your boss's ideas. I think a 7by5 tablet would be the perfect size and should definitely contain a wireless modem with an inexpensive service fee. A tablet, if done right, would be an unbelievable tool.

conceptdev

Mar 30, 2003, 02:57 PM

If the tablet is made I will drool over it.
If the tablet is made I won't buy, it won't get sufficient sales to justify R&D and tooling up costs.
If the tablet is made it will fail, and then we will mourn the failure of another cool ahead of its time piece of Apple sturbonness to look at the market before making the next cooler than death computing object.

Why - the tablet's main market is enterprise. Apple has no enterprise market share. They might be trying to make a new market but this generally information appliance type device have failed to date. Use - what can this do that an Ibook, CLIE or TV-DVD can't?

James.Paul

Mar 30, 2003, 03:02 PM

I am one of these people who is waiting for an update to the iPod and have been excited by the rumours and then left disappointed. I'd hate to buy one then a month later something comes out which brings more functionality. If these rumours were to be true then I'd order one straight away. The iPod is fantastic but it's a music playing device only with a few features added on. I have been thinking about the Sony Clie but would much prefer an Apple device and am prepared to wait a while and pay a bit extra if I had to. I would just love to see a multifunctional device that is a full entertainment system that I could use on trains, lunchbreaks etc. Yes you could listen to music, view your contacts, address book etc but I'd love to see the ability to play games (not just breakout), watch and record quicktime movies, take photos, be used as a phone, browse the web, and sync everything with your .mac account. Essentially everything a laptop does but without the size. Apple has the ability to do this and I think that the iPod's success has proved there is a demand for an apple gadget. If they do, then we all know that the device will a) look great b) be compatible with other Apple products and c) make your PC friends so jealous. Bring it on.

trilogic

Mar 30, 2003, 03:02 PM

8.4" screen?????????????????????

what resolution would that be? less than 800*600 so it's absolutly useless for surfing the net. and still to big to carry around like an iPod.

robodweeb

Mar 30, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Vector
Does anyone who has actually used a tablet pc think that it is anymore useful than a subnotebook or a new pda?

PDAs
PDAs are too limited in functionality and they don't play well with others (computers and applications). They seem to be locked into a mid-1990s mind-set.

Tablets
As currently implemented, no. And certainly not at their current prices.
As Apple could implement it, YES.

The predictable rash of nay-sayers, after a rumor like this, tend to completely miss the point of a tablet form factor (as Microsoft and its minions do). People in business and academia move around a lot between meetings, classes, etc. It's tedious and distracting for me to pull out my Powerbook to take notes ... popping up the screen in front of me also puts a wall between me and the others in the meeting/class. For larger meetings, it's difficult to balance a laptop on my lap. Finally, I'm not a touch typist, so using a laptop draws my focus away from what I'm supposed to be paying attention to.

So, the laptop winds up staying in my briefcase/backpack while I scribble on a pad of paper ... which I can do without looking at it (the tactile and inertial feedback is sufficient for me). Of course, then, I rarely copy my notes to my laptop so, when I need them, I have to spend a lot of time flipping back through pads of paper. Note that one reason pads of paper are so ubiquitous is that they work well and work naturally for people ... but they are analog.

A tablet affords the combination of the natural ease of use of a pad of paper with the recording (and search?) features of a computer. IT SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO PROVIDE ALL THE FUNCTIONALITY OF A LAPTOP (this point is what folks don't seem to get). Instead, its design should enable you to work seamlessly with your laptop(s)/desktop(s), not instead of them.

So, let me hand-write my notes in meetings/classes. Let me use a hand scanner to scan printed images in fo later OCR (via my laptop/desktop). Let me record/play audio of meetings/classes (to rip and burn later via my laptop/desktop). Let me take pictures and store them (and process them later with my laptop/desktop). Even offer a high end option to record/play video (but process/burn/edit on my laptop/desktop).

Let my tablet store all this as I move around getting the things done that I need to get done, then let my laptop/desktop automatically grab them from my tablet and help me to organize them and to do whatever processing I need to do. Let my notes get Inkwell'd and put into Filemaker. Let my scans get OmniPage'd (or preferably a better supported OCR app) and stored in folders (or put into Filemaker). Let my audio recordings be auto-processed to remove noise and to equalize the levels and rip'd to MP3 (or DSS or MPEG-4) to be moved to my iPod. Let my still pictures be cleaned up and iPhoto'd. Let my video clips be FCP Expressed into my collection of clips for subsequent iDVDing.

In short, let a tablet add value by tying together all these parts of my world and simply make it easier to to do the work I need to do.

I think 802.11g & TCP/IP would be the minimum for connectivity (though I wouldn't mind connections between my Bluetooth cellphone and my Tablet) with my laptop(s)/desktop(s), so I would also like a web browser for information retrieval. I could live without Firewire if I had this. Of course, that also opens the door for other varieties of connectivity that others might prefer (eg email, ftp, SMB, etc.) ... which reminds me ... it would be great if I could also (minimally) use my Tablet with the Windows boxen I'm forced to use in some circumstances (USB 2, in addition to ftp and SMB?). That might even add enough value so that Windows users would buy them (OK, maybe Apple could throw in Solitaire and ine Sweeper to make them happier) ...

This would be sufficiently useful that I wouldn't mind paying $1000-$1200 for it, though I think that under $1000 would be more reasonable for most.

If you want/need a laptop, fine. Just understand that simply because you wouldn't want a tablet doesn't mean that others wouldn't want it at all ... and, if anyone could do it right, Apple could ...

richlen

Mar 30, 2003, 03:11 PM

Thats the best Spymac can come up with? This is a really tired idea. Personally, I've been using a PocketPc and though they sucked a couple of years ago they really are great now--toobad you have to put up with Windows. If Apple could turn an iPod into a Pocket Mac that would be cool especially if we could take commercial DVDs we own and rip them via QT/MPEG4 to the pod so we could have a theater in our pockets complete with great sound. All our media--videos, dvds, photo and music could be on one device. Now that would be cool.

Do a think a tablet is on the way...nope, been there done that and everyone else is failing at it.

requies

Mar 30, 2003, 03:14 PM

we all know that spymac doesn't know jack. don't base your opinions about this rumor on what they have to say. i found the details on macwhispers very interesting. if you convert the case size numbers to inches you find that it's big enough for a 5x7 screen, which is just perfect for... photos. i don't think this device will be anything close to a smaller ibook replacement. this is the device we were all hoping for before macworld. as ipod is to itunes, this device will be to iphoto and imovie. and as with the ipod it will do other things as well. i think that by placing this device into known device categories you are missing what this could be. though one shouldn't expect the impossible. the cool aspect of this device won't be what it is, but what you can do with it. remember how the ipod was "just another mp3 player"? as anyone who owns an ipod can tell you, it surely transcends being "just another mp3 player". not by what it is, but by how it changes the way you use a portable music player. you take it with you everywhere, don't you? not because you're trying to justify spending so much on it, but because it begs you to. because you've got 1,000 songs (or 2,000 or 4,000) songs in your pocket. anyway... this post isn't meant to extoll the virtues of the ipod, but as a message... when you think of this new device, don't think palm or ibook, think ipod.

i've thought about it realistically and i will be buying one. :)

j33pd0g

Mar 30, 2003, 03:19 PM

I would like to think that since apple has just put out the 12", and 17" PB(s), that they wouldn't want to distract from those sales with something like a PDA tablet. Who would buy a PDA if they already had a PB? They should work on trying to get the the price of the PB lower. Unless of course this rumored PDA is around $200 bucks. I would maybe get that. But it better have a place in the back to store my iPod.

Here is a cool idea: What if this new PDA was something that only worked with your iPod. That way it would lower the cost because it would work your iPods HD like a parasite.

Teqanjel

Mar 30, 2003, 03:20 PM

Hi, all!

I think we're looking at this from a very narrow perspective in deciding if this "whatever" would be useful, would sell, etc. Most posters here (and elsewhere) are looking at this from the perspective of:

- It's meant to replace or be an improvement on existing products -- a smaller laptop, a more capable PDA, a more powerful iPod... Many are comparing this "whatever" to existing categories of devices and reasoning it would come up short.

- It won't sell because the market's already glutted with notebook PCs, PDAs, etc., so it would be folly for Apple to try wedging itself in with "something better".

The more ingenious -- and more Apple -- way to approach this would be to create a product for a market which isn't already inundated. Don't develop a device which does the same thing as other devices, only better -- create a device which does something entirely different. Let's trace Apple's marketing reasoning these last few years:

(1) Don't compete with Microsoft on their own turf -- they already dominate the business market with Office, etc. Focus instead on an unfulfilled market: computing needs for one's personal life. Hence apps such as iTunes, iPhoto, etc., and a digital "hub" for integrating these with minimal frustration. To paraphrase Steve Jobs, Apple wants to do for one's personal life what Microsoft did for everyone's business life.

(2) Why is this market untapped? As strange as it may seem to those of us posting here, there are tens of millions of folks who are either intimidated by or turned off by "computers". (My husband and son are good examples -- they begrudgingly use computers out of necessity. My daughter and I are the techies in the family.) The computer market is "full" because those who are willing to learn and use computers already do, and those who aren't willing or able to don't. The key point is that no amount of quantitative improvement in existing products is going to tap that market. A faster/smaller/more powerful computer "anything" isn't going to draw these folks into the market.

(3) So what to do? Make a qualitative change instead. Offer a product (but not a "computer", per se) which allows people to benefit from computer technology without being computer savvy. In doing so, tap into a whole new market of buyers, and sell to the existing computer-savvy populace as well. In short, the home computer "appliance" we've heard about for umpteen years but which no one...yet...has been able to market effectively. If they could, they would be tapping into millions of potential buyers without taking market share from other products.

And why, pray tell, would Apple even dream that such a product would sell when so many similar attempts by them and others have failed? Lots of things are different now vs. even a couple of years ago:
- Bluetooth and wireless preclude the need for hooking up "all them confusing wires"
- Software like Rendezvous and others distance the user from the "computer" making it less intimidating
- Technologies for handwriting recognition and speech recognition make for more natural interaction with computers (though the latter has a bit further to come yet)
- Broadband Internet allows users to be connected all the time, thus opening them to 'Net-based services and resources without having to "log on" -- they're always available

In short, a device much closer to other ubiquitous and familiar devices -- a non-intimidating appliance in support of daily life.

I don't for a moment think that such an Apple device, if that's what this 5"x7"x1" thing is, is intended be the do-all, end-all for such applications. But it could be Apple's first step into what it sees as a booming market within 5 years. The Newton was a step in the same direction -- creating a device for a new market -- and it's unfortunate that Apple never really benefitted from a market they realistically opened. Maybe they will fare better with an entre into the market I described above. If Apple can do this with their usual style and twist on things...who knows?

~ Teqanjel

macphoria

Mar 30, 2003, 03:26 PM

Apple tablet is just a bad idea. Introducing a new product segment in slow market will only mean poor sales.

I don't think tablet with 8.4" display is particularly small, but so much is done with keyboards that I'm not crazy about touchscreen only device. I'd rather go with a laptop with touchscreen.

requies

Mar 30, 2003, 03:26 PM

the ipod parasite idea is a nice idea. the new device could utilize both the ipod's hard drive and battery. (possibly in addition to its own) and maybe that's why we're still waiting on the ipod update. ;)

mgescuro

Mar 30, 2003, 03:33 PM

An 8" tablet from Apple... if such a product exists in the pipeline, would most likely exist somewhere in between an iBook and a high powered PocketPC PDA.

The Apple tablet would probably be the approximate height and depth as my TI-85 calculator but will most likely be wider. It'll probably have the same hard drive as the iPods... or depending on Apple, maybe even IBM's microdrive.

But what else can you do on the Tablet?? You're not going to use Photoshop. It's most likely wireless capable. Maybe be able to view some video and audio.

There is nothing so overwhelming to justify a Tablet Mac. Apple would NEVER be able to hit a price-point of about $800 -- which would be somewhere below the cheapest iBook and above the most capable PocketPC's.

macphoria

Mar 30, 2003, 03:36 PM

-----From here I am ASSuME:
-----Apple is coming out with a Hybird tablet of some type to
-----replace the iBook
-----Powered by a G3
-----No CD/DVD (but supported via USB/FW)
-----30/40 GB HD
-----OS X (or some version of it. OS X is really *nix so some of
-----the extras could be cut out)
-----Blue tooth
-----USB & Firewire (one of each)
-----Extreme Air port
-----10/100 NIC
-----Modem (not sure about this one)
-----256MB RAM (maybe 512)
-----All the iApps installed
-----Inkwell based HWR
-----Great battery life
-----For home users/schools/sciences
-----Only 1 version fully loaded for $999

This sounds feasible. But I would rather see one WITH optical drive and something less than $999. If I had to spend $999, I would go with low end iBook.

marcsiry

Mar 30, 2003, 03:44 PM

Most of the people who post here sit in front of their computers all day, and have absolutely no need for a tablet.

However, I can think of entire market segments that could use something more capable than a PDA and more portable than a laptop.

I'm a freelancer living in NYC- and I would buy a tablet within 5 seconds of its announcement. I could scribble on the subway, or read e-books, or whatever.

It would save me from lugging my laptop to a presentation or interview- especially if it has some sort of video-out. (Pair it with Keynote and you've got an ideal portable presenter, I would think).

Additionally, NYC is full of open, free wireless networks. I would love to be able to park myself outside of one of them and check my e-mail on the run- far better than killing my thumbs to check Yahoo! mail on my phone.

As for carrying it- just about everyone in NYC carries some sort of messenger bag or briefcase. 5x7 would be trivial to slip in there.

This isn't like the Newton, where everything was new technology and it required a billion dollar investment to even explain what it was to the buying public. You could build one of these things with off-the-shelf parts. Heck, I've been thinking of building something similar with a touchscreen added to a butchered iBook- the only missing link was Inkwell, and I think there's a third-party onscreen keyboard product.

Apple doesn't have to create a demand and then own the segment; they just have to sell them for more than it costs to make them. Just like the iPod.

I'm not sure why certain people on this board go into hysterics at the very mention of a tablet. There is clearly a market, and there is clearly the means to build one. The only thing missing is the product.

pyrotoaster

Mar 30, 2003, 03:49 PM

Instead of thinking of this as a regular tablet or a PDA (the horror!). Think of this as a sub-sub-laptop. An ultra-mini iBook. A keyboard-less all-in-one wonder portable. That's what this is (or will be, etc.).

Steve Jobs knows all to well that making anything conventional is a bad idea (think of the iMac here, or the iBook, or the iPod, etc.). He's even said that he's unsure the tablet market is ever going to happen. The PC tablet market.

Don't forget, this is Jobsian Apple. We should expect the (mostly) unexpected. ;)

smashedapart

Mar 30, 2003, 03:50 PM

So let me get this straight, here are the features everyone wants in this new device:

- Mp3 playback
- voice recording
- video playback
- video recording
- picture/slideshow viewing
- wireless internet/Airport Extreme
- cell phone capabilities
- household remote capabilities
- screen input
- bluetooth
- docking station
- wireless mouse and keyboard support (that still doesn't exist yet)
- a dvd drive

...and we want all of this in a 5x7x1 inch enclosure. Uh huh. :rolleyes:

I know we all think Apple is awesome, but cmon. A device like this isn't coming. Whatever this device is (if we can even trust the rumors), it won't be an end-all-be-all solution for every single mundane task in your life. Don't dilute yourselves, whatever this is, it will have a very simple purpose, much like the iPod.

I think Apple really made a mistake with the iPod...they've set themselves up to deliver the latest and greatest "digital lifestyle device". I honestly think Steve Jobs is going to hate himself for coining that phrase. I swear, they should have never added iCal/iSync support to the iPod. They've given everyone delusions of grandeur...

smashedapart

Mar 30, 2003, 03:53 PM

And one more thing: if this information were real, why hasn't Apple Legal yanked it off the net yet?

mgescuro

Mar 30, 2003, 03:55 PM

Assume this for a Tablet:

- G3 Powered
- Thinner than 1"
- ~6 hrs battery life
- No optical drive (CD/DVD/etc)
- Bluetooth enabled
- Airport Extreme enabled
- No 56K
- No 10/100
- 10/20 GB HD
- SD Card slot
- 256 RAM
- nVIDIA/ATI graphics
- OS X / OS X "CE"
- Speakers

The way I see it... if there really is a tablet, Apple would be smart to target a market segment that would want a machine that has more capabilities than even the highest end PocketPC's but not necessarily have the full capabilities of even the lowest end laptops. That means, Apple needs to hit a pricepoint of $800. I think that is an impossible pricepoint for Apple to hit and still breakeven... especially in this market.

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by robodweeb
Tablets
As currently implemented, no. And certainly not at their current prices.
As Apple could implement it, YES.

Ditto.:cool:

Originally posted by robodweeb
A tablet affords the combination of the natural ease of use of a pad of paper with the recording (and search?) features of a computer. IT SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO PROVIDE ALL THE FUNCTIONALITY OF A LAPTOP (this point is what folks don't seem to get). Instead, its design should enable you to work seamlessly with your laptop(s)/desktop(s), not instead of them.

Double Ditto!:)

Originally posted by robodweeb
...Just understand that simply because you wouldn't want a tablet doesn't mean that others wouldn't want it at all ... and, if anyone could do it right, Apple could ...

YAHTZEE!!:D

nagromme

Mar 30, 2003, 04:02 PM

The specs and size of this (8-8.5" screen, stylus instead of keys) don't seem to match any other recent product. Not a PDA, not a Windows tablet. So I'm not sure it ought to be compared to them.

A Mac OS system of that size would be neat, but expensive. I'm betting it's a cheaper--but more limited--iPod-type device. Video?

Either way, I'll have to see it before I call it doomed or not.

After all, wouldn't you have said an Apple MP3 player was doomed if you heard that rumor before iPod? Or an Apple broswer if you heard that before Safari? Or a 17" PowerBook? Or Macs migrating to UNIX for that matter...

mgescuro

Mar 30, 2003, 04:02 PM

kiwi_the_iwik

Mar 30, 2003, 04:06 PM

Then go no further...

http://www.theapplecollection.com/design/macproto/Newton2.html

;)

Flynnstone

Mar 30, 2003, 04:17 PM

ATI has their Imageon graphics device, design for high end PDAs (or low end laptops). Designed for video and low power.
IBM has there 405G? PowerPC processor designed for PDAs (and other low power embedded systems).
iPods are cool, but something more needed.
PDAs (palms and pocket pc) are boring and sales are slow.

I like my Newton, PDAs ... when you have a newton, PDAs are so limited.
But Steve will stay away from Newtons ( bad history, Sculley
:rolleyes: )
ssshhh, I would really like to see the hand writing recognition of the Newton in a new cool (non Sculley tainted) device :rolleyes:

technocoy

Mar 30, 2003, 04:27 PM

but what if this is some kind of uber remote for the "hub" and digital media center that you connect to your home entertainment system that is then networked wirelessly. the rumor of the other casing could be the actual box that connects to the system and the infrared sensor would actually be to communicate with current t.v.'s, dvd's, stereo's, etc. it could communicate with the actual box via long range bluetooth from anywhere in the house and surf the internet from the airport (which it also uses to transfer data to the "box". This would be apple making the digital hub ultimately the way it should be. control it all from the remote/ tablet/ web terminal/ pda/ whatever.... this would be an accessory for your current computer, not a replacement. Oh, well, just a thought!!:D

(ducks and covers)

Teqanjel

Mar 30, 2003, 04:39 PM

Take a moment to think of where computer-based technology will take us, say, five years from now. What devices/software/services will you be using in the office, at home, on the road, with your family, etc. (Consider where things have come in the last 5 years and at least double that progress.) I'm serious...think about "Daily Life in 2008".

Got a vision in mind? Well, someone has to develop those things as well as the supporting infrastructure. Someone will take the first step with each. Apple historically is good at this, at least from the standpoint of technology and innovation even if not with regard to marketing.

So if you were in the higher echelons of Apple, would you be thinking about how to do the same things better, or about doing different things? Once a trend is obvious to others, it's too late to cash in on that trend. Steve Jobs knows this, hence his oft-repeated views about PDAs. The trick to surviving and thriving is to identify the trend before it is one...build a bandwagon rather than getting on one that's already moving. It's risky, of course, but that has been Apple's business approach of late.

Do I think Apple's next "one more thing" will be a tablet, or a PDA, or a camera, or a ... ?? Nah -- others have been there and done that. "Think different."

~ Teqanjel

Biker21098

Mar 30, 2003, 04:50 PM

well said!
Have faith is apple. They haven't led me a stray yet.

Power On old Power Macs
450MHZ
390 gig HD
Radeon 8500
1 gig RAM
FCP 3.0.4

legacyb4

Mar 30, 2003, 04:51 PM

While the resolution obviously isn't the highest resolution nor the best quality for a digital picture, having a d-cam integrated in your phone is extremely handy and is actually a lot of fun for those moments when you wish you had a camera with you. Not to mention the fact that the photos can be mailed out from your phone the moment it's taken...

Video with sound is hitting the markets in force now and by summer, there should be a lot of neat new phones to play with.

Cheers.

Tokyo, Japan

Originally posted by mgescuro
That's about as useful as taking a picture on your cell phone. (Stupidest feature EVER!!)

etoiles

Mar 30, 2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by mgescuro
That's about as useful as taking a picture on your cell phone. (Stupidest feature EVER!!)

The reason they put cameras into phones is because the phone companies want to generate new revenue streams. The curve for voice usage flattens out after some point (people can only talk so much on the phone), but data transmission (mmmmmh, big juicy pictures) is much more scaleable and offers new possibilities to charge people. They try to create a need...

Apple is much more subtle in its ways. They do things in style. The iPod is all about 'less is more', and I am sure a new 'tablet' (if it comes out) will have a similiar appeal: something beatiful enough to just be sitting on your desk as a picture frame, with a very simple interface to manage your calendar, take notes, manage other devices (playlist etc.). I don't see OSX on it though...it just does not seem to be the right os for a little device with a small screen.

etoiles

Mar 30, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Teqanjel
The trick to surviving and thriving is to identify the trend before it is one...build a bandwagon rather than getting on one that's already moving. It's risky, of course, but that has been Apple's business approach of late.

Do I think Apple's next "one more thing" will be a tablet, or a PDA, or a camera, or a ... ?? Nah -- others have been there and done that. "Think different."

~ Teqanjel

Better come out with a device when the trend already started than before it started (or when technology is not quite ready): Think Apple Newton, Think iPod ;)

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by smashedapart
So let me get this straight, here are the features everyone wants in this new device:

- Mp3 playback
- voice recording
- video playback
- video recording
- picture/slideshow viewing
- wireless internet/Airport Extreme
- cell phone capabilities
- household remote capabilities
- screen input
- bluetooth
- docking station
- wireless mouse and keyboard support (that still doesn't exist yet)
- a dvd drive

...and we want all of this in a 5x7x1 inch enclosure. Uh huh. :rolleyes:

Look at ALL the features you listed above and tell me which ones require much more than a motherboard with it's accompanying ports, a mini HD, possibly an optical drive, and a thin touchscreen/kiosk. Is the wireless portion the aspect that will make this device too "bulky", or would it be the playback/viewing abilities? :rolleyes:

Damn those pesky, intangible, yet physical space hogging capabilities!! [slight sarcasm inferred here]. Possibly you were referring to the huge microprocessor?

All of the other hardware necessities have already been implemented in 1" thick enclosures. They're called PowerBooks. If an optical drive is indeed an option, a CD/DVD is less than 5" in diameter BTW. Did you want to go measure the opening for the slot load drives now? I'm sure Apple will make use of the extra 2" in the overall 5"x 7" enclosure somehow.

[i]Originally posted by smashedapart
I know we all think Apple is awesome, but cmon. A device like this isn't coming. Whatever this device is (if we can even trust the rumors), it won't be an end-all-be-all solution for every single mundane task in your life. Don't dilute yourselves, whatever this is, it will have a very simple purpose, much like the iPod.

Quite the realist, and an optimist to boot!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by smashedapart
I think Apple really made a mistake with the iPod...they've set themselves up to deliver the latest and greatest "digital lifestyle device". I honestly think Steve Jobs is going to hate himself for coining that phrase. I swear, they should have never added iCal/iSync support to the iPod.

Yeah, I'm sure Apple and SJ are shaking in their sneakers for having made such a popular, high quality product like the iPod that has more features than advertised. A good rule of business to follow is, "Under Promise and Over Deliver".

Originally posted by smashedapart
They've given everyone delusions of grandeur...

I don't think that Apple has given everyone delusions of grandeur as much as they've seemingly given you an inadequacy/paranoia complex. :(

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by smashedapart
And one more thing: if this information were real, why hasn't Apple Legal yanked it off the net yet?

Probably the same reason they haven't yanked threads in regards to 10.3 Panther, PowerPC 970's, larger capacity iPods, 15" PowerBook revisions,....:rolleyes:

conceptdev

Mar 30, 2003, 05:35 PM

Less is not more when it comes to use and functionality. If you want more design cliches lets start with form follows function.

Define the function of this device, and since it is a computing device define multiple functions for this device that are of use to users in Apples market share.

It does not make sense to have a tablet. Think ergonomics for a second. If I want something to take around the house to watch movies am I going to lay it down flat and stand over it - no, and I am not going to hold the whole time. If I want to surf the web around the house why do I want this machine I go bag to the same problems, that I don't have with a pre-existing product TiBook + Airport.

A tablet does make sense for people who need to have something they can write on and view in certain situations which are by and large job related. That means you are pitching this device to business not consumers. And business mainly large ones - enterprise is not apples market.

Make something cool and the market will follow is something the tech industry does not do anymore. It got away with it trying during the bubble for a while but we all know how that turned out.

Give me a variety of benefits to the consumer that is in Apple's market and are not offered by Apple's pre-existing products with an attractive yet feasible price and I might start to believe this rumor.

If Apple even thinks about I say if you want to spend money getting the company somewhere give it to IBM or pre-develop and put manufacturing into a place so those G5s can hit the cluster nodes and PMacs and work on making all apps work in a distributed fashion at the push of a button.

Want to do something pretty and innovative - bring visualization forward with beatuiful and easy to deploy apps.

NavyIntel007

Mar 30, 2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by bobindashadows
I dunno... i was reading that, and it seems ok, but SpyMac has turned into more of a photoshop paradise (surprise?) than anything. I haven't seen a real rumor, let alone a reliable one, come out of there in a while.

FIrst?

Agreed, I was surprised that a rumor from Spymac appeared on the front page.

NavyIntel007

Mar 30, 2003, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by mgescuro
Well that's quite obviously NEVER going to happen. Video recording on a tablet PC. That's about as useful as taking a picture on your cell phone. (Stupidest feature EVER!!)
If a tablet Mac does come out... be sure it will include all features in OS X... just like the XP Tablet editions.

I agree, why have camera phones been all the hype? I want bluetooth dammit!

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by conceptdev
...And business mainly large ones - enterprise is not apples market.

Have you been to an Apple Store lately?

Strange the way the Pro section of the stores all have "Business' Run Better On A Mac" screensavers. The big pictorial signage also focuses on the same subject. Not to mention the readily available printed business materials, and all the new business leasing/finance options that weren't available just a few months ago.

Did I mention that there are on-site Business Specialists [yes, that's their title] who have their business cards attached to informative business flyers as well?

Also, why are there recurring presentations in the theatre areas of those stores that are dedicated to business applications like QuickBooks, MYOB, etc. Call me crazy, but I don't think that home users are the demographic who attend those presentations.

I know that Apple has only been able to implement xServe solutions in 100 of the Fortune 500 companies in less than a year, but does that give them any reason to shift some focus to the business sector?

Oh, but back to your point. A tablet device that would benefit business people in which Apple has has no market, right?

For some reason, at this very moment, I can't get that C&C Music Factory song from the early 90's out of my head. It was called "Things That Make You Go Hmmm...";)

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Agreed, I was surprised that a rumor from Spymac appeared on the front page.

...and Macwhispers, and LoopRumors, and...

MacRumors moderator, Arn [who BTW was the FIRST and ONLY person to report the introduction of new 12"/17" PowerBooks the night before the release], also went so far as to say in today's post: "Rumors for an Apple Tablet accumulated prior to MacWorld San Francisco - with an number of reliable sources pointing in the same direction -- the ongoing development of an Apple Tablet."

The eyebrow raising portion of that comment being the second half stating that sources that Arn and/or MacRumors staff believe to be reliable.

I don't know about you guys, but the fact that it took MacRumors awhile to post this subject suggests to me that the delay may have been attributed to some fact finding on Arn's behalf, which resulted in enough substantiated evidence to justify posting this on the front page.:D

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I agree, why have camera phones been all the hype? I want bluetooth dammit!

Sony Ericsson T68 series. Bluetooth AND camera capabilities.

requies

Mar 30, 2003, 07:06 PM

from macwhispers:

"The underside has two compartment openings; one is 66mm x 106mm; no cover is being injected at the same plant."

i find it very interesting that 66mm x 106mm is almost exactly the size of an ipod. coincidence? we shall see! ;)

etoiles

Mar 30, 2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by conceptdev
Less is not more when it comes to use and functionality. If you want more design cliches lets start with form follows function.

:rolleyes:
'less is more' is a catchphrase, it implies 'used in appropriate manner' because otherwise it would be nothing more than a contradiction.

Take the iPod, for example: very simple, design (case, controls), very simple UI, very good use and functionality. They did not try to be everything to everyone, they focused on one thing (at first) and they did that very well.

Again, if they make a tablet or any other small device, it should not be a full computer in the form of a tablet, it should have more specific purposes and serve those well.

'Form follows function' is more of a design ideology IMHO, and Apple is lightyears away from that one. But I think they use LIM on their latest hardware (not on Aqua, obviously ;) )

etoiles

Mar 30, 2003, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by requies
from macwhispers:

"The underside has two compartment openings; one is 66mm x 106mm; no cover is being injected at the same plant."

i find it very interesting that 66mm x 106mm is almost exactly the size of an ipod. coincidence? we shall see! ;)

It is actually 1mm short...will have to do some pushing :D...oh wait, new iPod rumor....aaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Sun Baked

Mar 30, 2003, 07:46 PM

I don't know what to think about this, I'm still waiting for the new iPod, eMac, and iBook that everyone promised. ;)

I'll keep these two new big rumors in mind as the community chants.

This Tuesday is the day...

That your Mac dreams shall be realized,

That the product specs shall be finalized,

That the long awaited products shall materialize.

Hawthorne

Mar 30, 2003, 08:08 PM

..that Sony is doing quite well with their NZ-70, an $800 PDA that's not the lightest, smallest, nor cheapest on the market, yet offers things like a digital camera, bluetooth, optional 802.11b and MPEG-4 playback, I could see this from Apple as a competitor. I'd love to have one as a useful addition for my wife to use Quicken or surf while I use the other Mac for work.

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by MikeH
Tablet PC's - I just don't see the point.

Watching films? I've got a widescreen TV and DVD player for that.
Music? A stereo.
Music while surfing? iTunes
Portablitiy? I'd buy a laptop
Portable games? GBA
Note taking? A pen and pad, and save myself a bunch of cash

Thank God someone else has saved me the trouble typing out this list. Totally agree!

Mark my words, I hope this is just a rumor, because this device will be one big fat belly flop. And there won't be much water left in the pool. Whatever that means!. :p

The iPod - now that was a real idea. I wouldn't sell mine for quids. Here's a device which genuinely improves the quality of people's lives, and guess what? There's money in that!

reyesmac

Mar 30, 2003, 08:37 PM

All Apple is doing now is making products that dont need to be the fastest. Its great that they can come up with usefull devices but none of them are as fast as everything else out there. I wonder if this thing will even have a G4 in it. If it isnt fast enough to edit your home movies, it shouldnt be sold for more than $500.

cevin

Mar 30, 2003, 08:44 PM

I would buy one if Apple makes a 14". 8.5" is to small for me and the "kewlfaktor" doesn't do it. I think the 8.5" has a market though. But only make a 8.5" isn't enough. I mean "Big and Small Things From Apple"... so why not make a 14"? it might not be bigger then other TabletPCs but atleast more usefull.

I think a G4 is out of the question. The G4s from Motorola that'll come Q4 (PPC7447 and PPC7457) might do it though. But, I think this product will come at the WWDC in June. So it'll be a G3, i'm pretty sure of that.

5h battery isn't enough either. But all that stuff packed in that small box makes it tricky. But Fullcells will come sometime next year so it might kick butt then.

WWDC will be an intressting event more then just the WWDC (Panther and PPC970).

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by reyesmac
If it isnt fast enough to edit your home movies, it shouldnt be sold for more than $500.
Even that low price STILL converts into nearly $1,000 Australian mate. For something noone needs. Ouch!

Luigi

Mar 30, 2003, 08:49 PM

....

X10 technology into the unit.....we are building a super-do-it-all system at this point :D

Lou G.

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
Mark my words...this device will be one big fat belly flop...

You're words have been marked...:)

That way I'll know who to ridicule when this "thing" materializes.;)

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
Even that low price STILL converts into nearly $1,000 Australian mate. For something noone needs. Ouch!

So glad you can speak for EVERYONE...mate.;)

Business people, students, and some home users. Think about it. Think Different.:)

ennerseed

Mar 30, 2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by MikeH
Tablet PC's - I just don't see the point.

Watching films? I've got a widescreen TV and DVD player for that.
Music? A stereo.
Music while surfing? iTunes
Portablitiy? I'd buy a laptop
Portable games? GBA
Note taking? A pen and pad, and save myself a bunch of cash

Aside from the fact an Apple tablet may well look impossibly cool, it just sounda like a gimick at the moment. If it had a 20" screen, powerful graphics, a bucket load of RAM and the sensitivity of a Wacom tablet, then it could be great with Photoshop or Painter. But if not it's just going to be a PDA with a superiority complex.

So you are going to carry around your widescreen tv, your dvd player, your stereo, your computer (for iTunes) which I'm guessing by the next item is a laptop, your gameboy, and a pen and pad of paper that you are goping to have to type in to your computer later on any way???

Wow, you are an amazingly strong and talented...

mangoman

Mar 30, 2003, 09:23 PM

(i always enjoy a good smartass comeback...)

Flynnstone

Mar 30, 2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by reyesmac
, it shouldnt be sold for more than $500.

That $500 point is a good one. Thats how Palm made it.
Generally something under $500 can be expensed rather than capitalized.
Simply easier to buy.

Teqanjel

Mar 30, 2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by requies
from macwhispers:

"The underside has two compartment openings; one is 66mm x 106mm; no cover is being injected at the same plant."

i find it very interesting that 66mm x 106mm is almost exactly the size of an ipod. coincidence? we shall see! ;)

A definite "Aha!" insight. I like your thinking.

So where does that lead us? Your (new version) iPod acts as the hard drive for a larger...what?

As a certain Vulcan would say, "Fascinating...". I honestly think you may be onto something.

~ Teqanjel

Phil Of Mac

Mar 30, 2003, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by 3G4N
consumer / professional
iMac ---> PowerMac
iBook ---> PowerBook
iPod ---> PowerPod
iMovie ---> Final Cut Pro
iDVD ---> DVD Studio Pro

Yeah, I'm just sitting here waiting for PowerChat, PowerPhoto, PowerTunes...

If Apple really has such a product, it's possible that it's something we won't be able to understand, because it'll be beyond anything we know. Jobs and his people are geniuses, and chances are, this product is the product of genius as well. We'd have to be geniuses to figure out what this is before they release it. And even if some of us are geniuses, it would be stupendous chance if we could figure out the exact same thing that Apple figured out.

(Either that, or it's a portable DVD-QuickTime player/digital image viewer with trivial computing capabilities, like the iPod.)

I don't know about you, but I have a Palm, and the Palm has a freestyle rub-the-stylus-on-the-screen-and-it-records-the-lines-you-scribble program. Rubbing a plastic stick against a plastic screen is nothing like writing on paper. It's also what I hate. I can type for hours, but start me with a pen, and I'm cramped in 30 minutes. Pen input is not going to utterly replace keyboards. In fact, it's not really going to replace much of anything. It is what we've been replacing for decades. It's still holding out in some places.

As for those of you who don't like to take notes with a laptop?it's a personal problem. Digitizing your personal problem won't solve anything. Some people can't even write with a keyboard, they have to write out their thoughts on paper and then copy them to the computer through typing. I more or less grew up with computers, so I can write on a computer. Others were able to transition.

Likewise with notes. As a high school senior, I've never taken notes with a computer. It might be difficult, for me. I'll try to adapt and adjust. I'll probably make it. If the first time people try taking notes with a computer is in college, however, they'll have trouble. Some of them. Which is why we need high schoolers equipped with laptops. In the future, this will happen more and more. If you learn to write with a computer early in life, you can do it, if not, you might not be able to. No one learned to take notes with a computer early in life. That's why no one does it. The issue of taking notes by computer is mostly going to be solved given time.

(I have to note that pen-based input might be a necessity here, however, only to some extent?the sciences use odd symbols that computers will find difficult to deal with. Somehow, this has to be handled.)

Hawthorne

Mar 30, 2003, 09:40 PM

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by MacQuest
You're words have been marked...:)

That way I'll know who to ridicule when this "thing" materializes.;)

Goodonya! :D

Someone's gotta provide the entertainment around here.

Some of the posts are a little bit too serious, in my humble opinion.

Anyhow, as a member of the loyal Mac faithful, I hope I really don't have a clue. (There's an invitation)

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
Goodonya! :D

Goodonya!:D Right back at ya mate! :D

Now let's celebrate with a trough full of Fosters lager, throw a few shrimp on the Bar-B while munching on a Vegemite sandwich, and wind down while watching the wild shannanigans of Paul Hogan in his Crocodile Dundee flicks... Can l bring my "Men At Work" CD's?!

;) :)

chewbaccapits

Mar 30, 2003, 10:12 PM

I've posted this like 3 times already, but no one, except, maybe, sunbaked read it....

http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000052.php

I keep insisting that this site can't be regarded as a reliable source....This site's a joke..Come on!

mangoman

Mar 30, 2003, 10:13 PM

Ummm, can we get back to wild speculation, please?

smashedapart

Mar 30, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by MacQuest
Quite the realist
You're absolutely right, I am a realist. My habit of bringing people back down to earth tends to upset those around me...sorry you found yourself within that sphere. Consider me...a reality check. :D

I'm just trying to point out that some of the suggestions that are being made here are quite ridiculous. Cmon, an optical drive in a device that small? I honestly think that this device will have a simple role...something that people can identify with, like music with the iPod. This little device isn't going to run your house, check your email, and order you pizza. And yes, I do attribute this rampant wild speculation about some uber-DLD to the fact that Apple implemented some mild PDA-style functionality into the iPod. Since then, people have been speculating about a tablet and a PDA, both of which will probably never materialize...

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by mangoman
Ummm, can we get back to wild speculation, please?

If you're referring to me and "The Shadows" [BTW, "I'm Batman"] off topic jests then...NO!!;)

Just trying to keep spirits high internationally in this time of turmoil. War?! There's a WAR!! I was only talking about the turmoil within the Mac rumor community!!

I better turn on Comedy Central to find out what's really going on!:D

Okay, back to the original topic of the tablet thingamajiggy...

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by smashedapart
You're absolutely right, I am a realist...And yes, I do attribute this rampant wild speculation about some uber-DLD to the fact that Apple implemented some mild PDA-style functionality into the iPod.

I for one, would be relieved if that is true.

I'd love to see the iPod evolve. It's great the way it is, but as plenty of contributors have pointed out, there's plenty more potential.

It would be nice to see this product stay ahead of the competition, so it probably needs to continue to evolve. Up till now, most people seem to attribute the iPod's market leadership on its simplicity and elegance. But now that the market has been created and educated, 2 years on is it?, it's probably time for the next step (No pun intended) to cement this position in the market.

Having said that, isn't it a little surprising there have not been more true imitators yet?

HasanDaddy

Mar 30, 2003, 10:42 PM

Well - if I could weigh in.....

I use my iPod as a backup anyways (I backup documents and pics, in addition to my music)

I use the iPod everywhere for my tunes, but it would be pretty cool if I could pull up a document or picture from it, considering that I already back them up on my iPod

So....since I'm waiting for the 40 gig iPod (because I need space for tunes and backup), I'll also wait for this tablet

if the price is competitive (or similar to high end iPods), then I'll buy one.....if I'm gonna backup my entire harddrive on an iPod, then I'm willing to pay a few hundred more dollars to add the functionality of viewing all of my backed up stuff

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by smashedapart
You're absolutely right, I am a realist.

Honestly, I was being being sarcastic. I think you are definately leaning alot more towards the category of pessimist than realist. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by smashedapart
...Since then, people have been speculating about a tablet and a PDA, both of which will probably never materialize...

See!! This is what I mean about being a pessimist. Apple could easily pump out a PDA or Tablet computer that would make Palm along with BG and MS bury their heads up their own a-holes in embarrassment. Yet they've refrained until the market conditions improved, but more importantly and even more likely, until they again have a truly revolutionary product.

A realist would recognize that it is perfectly feasible, and probably a necessity to broaden it's DLD base consequently promoting it's own marketing focus, for Apple to introduce an entirely new product that would pull from the existing PDA and Tablet computer [if there is one:rolleyes:] markets.

A pessimist would say something about Apple like "...a tablet and a PDA, both of which will probably never materialize".

Not to beat a dead horse, but I know that it has been speculated that the same pessimism would've been expressed about an Apple branded "MP3 player" prior to 4th quarter of 2001.

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
...so it [iPod] probably needs to continue to evolve.

I agree. I want to get more functionality out of my 1st gen. 5 Gigger also. However it's main drawbacks are the inability to input information without the need to connect to a computer and also, quite frankly, color. That's where this new device will pick up the ball and run with it...ala Rugby.;)

Originally posted by The Shadow
...2 years on is it?

1.5 actually.:)

Originally posted by The Shadow
...it's probably time for the next step (No pun intended)...

Very clever.:D

robodweeb

Mar 30, 2003, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by mgescuro
Video recording on a tablet PC. That's about as useful as taking a picture on your cell phone.

You should check out the growth of cellphone-based video in South Korea before taking too absolutist a claim...

And, to clarify my earlier post, I didn't intend full camcorder-style video ... I was thinking webcam-style ... no, it's not perfect, but all I need is some sense of what I recorded ... not all things presented in meetings or classes can be easily reduced to text or sound recordings ...

cheerz!

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
Well - ...if the price is competitive (or similar to high end iPods), then I'll buy one.....if I'm gonna backup my entire harddrive on an iPod, then I'm willing to pay a few hundred more dollars to add the functionality of viewing all of my backed up stuff

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure I understand you're perceived needs, and we all have different likes and dislikes. But why wouldn't you prefer the iPod with some of the functionality you write of, and buy a cheap FireWire HDD for backups? Theyr'e about half the price of an iPod, and heaps less than any Tablet PC.

But then I freely admit my bias. I gave up on laptops years ago. I realise the need for them by some people, particularly in a mobile job. But I hate their size and weight. That's why I was an early adopter of Zip drives, years ago. I'd always donate one to wherever I worked, so I could just take a disk home in my pocket to my Mac, while everyone else lugged around whole computers. Silly buggers. Since in my consulting job, I'm always in stationary locations for a few months at a time, the ideal situation is a desktop at home, a desktop at work (or a laptop set up like a desktop), a Zip drive and a iPod in between.

At the risk of stating the obvious, a tablet PC is not going to be near as portable as an iPod. For me, if I can't stick it in my pocket it's too big! (Hope there are no women reading this)

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by robodweeb
You should check out the growth of cellphone-based video in South Korea before taking too absolutist a claim...

Yup. Couldn't agree more.

robodweeb

Mar 30, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by ennerseed
So you are going to carry around your widescreen tv, your dvd player, your stereo, your computer (for iTunes)

Uh, you're missing the point: it would be the tablet that is carried around, not all these other things ...

Do you use all these things at the same time? that would be the only reason to carry them all around with you. No, when you want to watch TV, you go to the TV. When you want to listen to music, you go to the stereo. When you ... you get the idea ...

As you move around, using these things, what's wrong with having one device to tie them all together in the ways that *you* find useful and which you may not yet realize?

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by chewbaccapits
...I keep insisting that this site [MacWhispers] can't be regarded as a reliable source....This site's a joke..Come on!

AND?!!

I'm no MacWhispers apologist but, we could spend days pointing out blunders and wild speculation on most of these forums behalfs. Or just go over the rumor round-up here at MacRumors.

I just don't think that this particular rumor is being jumped on by practically everyone, in particular Arn and MacRumors, without having some foundation.

Come on Apple. Prove us wrong...or right...or something!! AHHHHH!!!!!

[Preferrably right]:D

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
...Silly buggers.

:D Heh...He said "buggers"...:D

robodweeb

Mar 30, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Rubbing a plastic stick against a plastic screen is nothing like writing on paper. It's also what I hate. I can type for hours, but start me with a pen, and I'm cramped in 30 minutes. Pen input is not going to utterly replace keyboards. In fact, it's not really going to replace much of anything. It is what we've been replacing for decades. It's still holding out in some places.

Those places where it's holding out is known as "the real world" ...

There's nothing inherent about a tablet that would preclude its use with a (Bluetooth?) keyboard and mouse. Sometimes, they are the better input device. Sometimes, they're not.

I realize that, in your high school, no one may resort to using a pen <gasp> ... but I assure that there is whole big world out there full of people who use pens and pencils and, more to the point, are used to using them and, so, don't cramp up so quickly. That doesn't mean they wouldn't want to use a keyboard for some things ... just that they don't limit themselves to a keyboard for everything.

The Shadow

Mar 30, 2003, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by MacQuest
:D Heh...He said "buggers"...:D

MacQuest, much as I like you, you've obviously got serious time on your hands issues, haven't ya mate? :D

How many posts have actually made today? And you're gonna keep goin strong aren't ya dude? ;)

I'm finished for the day, it's been most informative.

Seeya lads!

Phil Of Mac

Mar 30, 2003, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by robodweeb
Those places where it's holding out is known as "the real world" ...

There's nothing inherent about a tablet that would preclude its use with a (Bluetooth?) keyboard and mouse. Sometimes, they are the better input device. Sometimes, they're not.

I realize that, in your high school, no one may resort to using a pen <gasp> ... but I assure that there is whole big world out there full of people who use pens and pencils and, more to the point, are used to using them and, so, don't cramp up so quickly. That doesn't mean they wouldn't want to use a keyboard for some things ... just that they don't limit themselves to a keyboard for everything.

As usual, you have completely missed my point.

I use pens on a daily basis. I just don't use them to write extensive pieces of text. Pens are great for non-textual information, odd symbols and formats, and things like that. But in the arena of text, keyboards are king. And there is very little that could replace them.

As for video cellphones: Great, now all my phone conversations are going to be like live reports from Iraq. Actually, I seriously want the types of phones those reporters have, in a miniaturized, consumer version. Although there are times I would rather not be seen when I'm talking on the telephone, it would be a sweet feature. But consumer videophones, so far, are in the same boat as flying cars. (Except in Korea, so it seems.)

matttichenor

Mar 30, 2003, 11:43 PM

This post may be long.

Before Macworld in January, I joined some threads regarding an iPad and even created some Photoshop mock-ups. In these threads we discussed some of the possible uses for an Apple Tablet.

The idea is that Apple has many current technologies that could easily be incorporated into a small, extremely portable tablet computer that would blow away any competition in the fledgling tablet market.

Here are some of the ideas that I can think of for a tablet with the following, very reasonable and more importantly, currently available specs.

(Based on current iBook Configurations)
800MHZ G3 PowerPc
128MB RAM Upgradeable to 768MB RAM
100MHZ System Bus
20 ? 30GB Harddrive
No Optical Drive (Maybe Slot load DVD/CDRW in Future Rev)
1 X Firewire 400
2 X USB
Bluetooth Enabled
10/100 Ethernet
Airport Extreme
5? X 7? LCD Touchscreen (8.5? Diagonal)
1075 X 768 Resolution (800 X 575 Scaled)
ATI AGP Mobility Chip w/ 32MB VRAM
Video / Audio Out (Requires Video Adaptor or Headphones)
Built in Speaker
Built in Mic
5 Hour Battery (iBook)
1.25 LBS (25% size of iBook, no flip out monitor, keypad, optical drive)

This system is perfectly capable of handling a full version of OSX. This fact is important as X is the single most important technology behind what would make this tablet better than anything else on the subcompact, tablet or PDA market.
Here?s why.

With OSX, you could use this tablet for the following tasks:

1) Any program that can run on an iBook with similar specs can run on this device. Mail, Safari, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iChat, X Utilities, Office, iWorks, Quicken, Photoshop, Sherlock, Games, iCal, Konfabulator, Quicktime? etc.. etc. Becomes a decent and extremely functional portable computer
2) Networking: Not only could this device be a great way to connect to the net, its potential as a network device is limitless. Combined with Apple?s already full functioned Remote Desktop software, the iPad could be a great device for controlling any given computer on a local network or over the internet. Imagine using an iPad to control a group of XServes or other Unix servers. Furthermore, my guess would be that OSX Panther will probably include a lite version of Remote Desktop. The end user would be able to remote control their desktop machine via the iPad making this device a perfect extension of their desktop. With Airport Extreme, Rendezvous and OSX, your desktop machine just became very portable.
3) Bluetooth: A lot has been said about Bluetooth, but just imagine the kind of versatility it offers a device like this. The list begins with wireless controllers like mice and keyboards and continues with printers and cell phones. If you have a Bluetooth phone and an iPad, you?re connected to the net anywhere you go. The third party possibilities with Bluetooth & Airport could be completely revolutionary. One interesting idea that has been floating around is the idea of a universal Bluetooth remote. Imagine controlling your VCR, Tivo or TV with your iPad and a Bluetooth / IR adaptor for the device that you want to control. Just hit a smart website with your TV listing and you can program your VCR with the touch of the stylus.
4) Enterprise: The possibilities for this device in the enterprise and business market are endless. Database Input, Customer Interaction, Inventory, Advertising, Information etc. etc.
5) Portable Picture, Video & MP3 player.
6) Digital Video Device? Tivo type device.
7) Personal / Family / Work / Home Organizer / Assistant. With hundreds more options, more space and easier input, this device would easily outclass any PDA in all areas besides size.
8) Tablet Input: Imagine if you connected via Firewire and the iPad became a seemless Tablet input device for your desktop or Powerbook Mac. Design and graphics pros would love to have a live tablet type device for super accurate graphics work, and it would also be cool simply as a touch extenson of your Mac. Instead of paying $300 for a really powerful Tablet Input Device, buy the iPad and you get the best of both worlds.

Basically you have a fully functioning OSX Macintosh in a super trimmed down but still very ergonomic form. Yes it might steal some marketshare from the iBook and Powerbook lines, but if you make it a logical progression from iPad, to iBook to Powerbook I think it would still make sense. Make it $100 cheaper than the iBook and you may have a winner. For those who want super light and portable, get the iPad, those who want full feature (DVD, Keyboard more power) get the iBook, Pros get the Powerbook. The nice thing about the iPad would be that it really becomes powerful in conjunction with another computer. I personally have not bought a separate portable from my Desktop as I don?t want the hassle of two computers, but if they worked together seamlessly as an extension of each other that would be a much different story.

Anyway, these were just some of the ideas I had? the beauty is that as soon as a device like this becomes available, third party designers really could run with it. Things that we can?t even imagine, from the most specific of tasks to whole new ways & purposes to use computers.

I like the idea of a Tablet, and I hope Apple does too.

M

MacQuest

Mar 30, 2003, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by The Shadow
MacQuest, much as I like you, you've obviously got serious time on your hands issues, haven't ya mate? :D

How many posts have actually made today? And you're gonna keep goin strong aren't ya dude? ;)

I'm finished for the day, it's been most informative.

Seeya lads!

Shadow-

I hope you don't think I was mocking you whatsoever, because I wasn't. Yes, today was a rarity in the sense that I did nothing more than enjoy a relaxing day at home with plenty of time on my hands and no worries. Unfortunately, it's back to the "mines" tomorrow.

I'm [almost] finished for the day as well, so no, I don't think I'll keep going strong for much longer.

See ya lad!:)

Sol

Mar 31, 2003, 12:10 AM

I agree with the people who have posted their doubts about the usefulness of such a device. While the technology for it exists today I do not think that people are ready to start carrying bulky tablets around the house. With a small screen it would be a gimmick to browse the Net using this thing and as for video, unless the content is free and on demand how could Apple ever compete with television? As for DivX, forget it. Apple is not in the business of supporting video piracy and it has more to gain from utilizing QuickTime and MP4.

smashedapart

Mar 31, 2003, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by matttichenor
(Based on current iBook Configurations)
800MHZ G3 PowerPc
128MB RAM Upgradeable to 768MB RAM
100MHZ System Bus
20 ? 30GB Harddrive
No Optical Drive (Maybe Slot load DVD/CDRW in Future Rev)
1 X Firewire 400
2 X USB
Bluetooth Enabled
10/100 Ethernet
Airport Extreme
5? X 7? LCD Touchscreen (8.5? Diagonal)
1075 X 768 Resolution (800 X 575 Scaled)
ATI AGP Mobility Chip w/ 32MB VRAM
Video / Audio Out (Requires Video Adaptor or Headphones)
Built in Speaker
Built in Mic
5 Hour Battery (iBook)
1.25 LBS (25% size of iBook, no flip out monitor, keypad, optical drive)
If Apple has the technology to basically put the contents of an iBook (plus bluetooth and Airport Extreme) into a computer that would weigh in at 1.25 pounds...don't you think they would have done this by now? Or at least used some of this technology to make the iBook lighter?

One thing you have to keep in mind is that the smaller something is (in the tech world), the more expensive it's going to be. If you try to squeeze the contents of a $1299 iBook into a computer that measures 5x7x1, you're looking at a machine that will push $1799. Thats not economically sound. Especially if we're to believe that this new device is to be aimed at the home market.

I'm done with this thread now, going to get some shut-eye. Hopefully we'll all be wowed by whatever this friggin thing is when it's announced. Until then...don't get your hopes up.

MacQuest

Mar 31, 2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Sol
While the technology for it exists today I do not think that people are ready to start carrying bulky tablets around the house.

The house...maybe, maybe not. People like us who are already computer users, may not benefit from this tablet unless it is somehow an extension of our existing computer and/or our other household electronic devices [as noted by "matttichenors" just above my post].

On the other hand, millions of current technophobes worlwide [let's not forget the language support in OS X] may not be as intimidated by a picture frame sized device that does not force them to remain in one particular room in the house while introducing them to computing, or maybe just controlling other home electronic devices. Mac style!:D

Get 'em hooked on Mac's "young", whether referring to age or computing experience, is the key. Then they can "graduate" to other Mac's and Apple devices with a minimal learning curve and at their convenience. Enough about the house though.

Let's talk grade school, up through college/university [and everything in between or after], and into the workplace. PDA's and Tablets in their current forms suck in these environments. PERIOD.

As a net. admin., I really like the prospect of walking around the office without my uncomfortable laptop [no matter how light it is, it's the form factor] or an inadequate PDA.

An OS X tablet that can wirelessly connect to my network for quick troubleshooting and administration? Bring it on!

Students who can stand around [don't have to go find a table or a flat surface to sitdown at] campus and complete data transfers with eachother [via Bluetooth] or download info. from their schools servers [via 802.11b/g]. Oh yeah!

Rather than re-type everything, check out "matttichenors" post on page 3 of this thread for workplace possibilities and "robodweebs" & "Teqanjels" posts on page 2 of this thread for further home and overall future roadmap possibilities.

ENDLESS possibilities, with Mac reliability, from cradle to grave. I LIKE IT!!

LET'S GO APPLE!! CHOP CHOP!!:D

Phil Of Mac

Mar 31, 2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by Sol
as for video, unless the content is free and on demand how could Apple ever compete with television?

Muahahahahaha.

requies

Mar 31, 2003, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by Teqanjel
A definite "Aha!" insight. I like your thinking.

So where does that lead us? Your (new version) iPod acts as the hard drive for a larger...what?

As a certain Vulcan would say, "Fascinating...". I honestly think you may be onto something.

~ Teqanjel

thanks, but the idea was j33pd0g's earlier in the thread, i just looked into it a bit. ;)

i think it's a good idea for a few reasons. one of which would be this: let's assume that this new device is just a "pictues and video ipod". (i think it will be a bit more) i would purchase one. it is reasonable to speculate that the picture and video features would be in addition to the music playing. if that were the case i would want to have my favorite mp3s on it which would create some redundancy with the mp3s i have on the ipod i already own. as a small, light music player, the ipod will not be replaced by this device. but instead of creating redundancy, the two could work together, sharing data and power. you could play the mp3s on your ipod's drive through the tablet. you could edit your contacts on your ipod without docking to a computer. you could add to and edit your calendars. each device would be able to function indepedantly, but together they could enhance each other. kinda like a transformer or something. ;)

anyway, that's more than enough rampant speculation from me. :)

requies

Mar 31, 2003, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by Sol
I agree with the people who have posted their doubts about the usefulness of such a device. While the technology for it exists today I do not think that people are ready to start carrying bulky tablets around the house. With a small screen it would be a gimmick to browse the Net using this thing and as for video, unless the content is free and on demand how could Apple ever compete with television? As for DivX, forget it. Apple is not in the business of supporting video piracy and it has more to gain from utilizing QuickTime and MP4.

oh... so that's why you guys are thinking this device is a bad idea. um... yeah. how can i put this? just because this device is targeted at the "home user" does not mean it would have to be used in the home. do you sit on your couch and listen to your ipod?

anyway, whatever. i will buy one. *waits*

MacQuest

Mar 31, 2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by smashedapart
If Apple has the technology to basically put the contents of an iBook (plus bluetooth and Airport Extreme) into a computer that would weigh in at 1.25 pounds...don't you think they would have done this by now?

Nope. Market conditions aren't right.

Originally posted by smashedapart
Or at least used some of this technology to make the iBook lighter?

Again, it's called a PowerBook. You want lighter/costlier enclosure with full features, you buy a PowerBook. You want a budget minded laptop, you buy an iBook.

Originally posted by smashedapart
One thing you have to keep in mind is that the smaller something is (in the tech world), the more expensive it's going to be. If you try to squeeze the contents of a $1299 iBook into a computer that measures 5x7x1, you're looking at a machine that will push $1799.

By that reasoning alone [even though it is true in theory, but "your" price points are completely off], current PDA's should be at about $1,000? They fit in your pocket right? That's small, right? The $1,799 price tag which "you" decided on for this tablet I would assume is to justify Apple's mark-up for using the Mac OS and all the other features?

Originally posted by smashedapart
Thats not economically sound. Especially if we're to believe that this new device is to be aimed at the home market.

Why can't you realize that this "iThing" will most likely be multi-faceted because of it's wireless capabilities? At home it controls and/or connects to devices that are completely different from those used at work. The same will be true about it's use and functionality.

Also, to quote requies right above my post: "just because this device is targeted at the "home user" does not mean it would have to be used in the home. do you sit on your couch and listen to your ipod?".

Oh so true. Likewise, the iPod is not targeted for the business user either. I am going to start my own category here, and just call it "the mobile user". That will probably be the legacy that this sort of device will leave behind. It will eliminate the line between "home" and "office" users for those who can't see that they are becoming one in the same.

Originally posted by smashedapart
Until then...don't get your hopes up.

Actually, your attempts to discredit this device has made me realize how much more I will want it when/if it comes out.

I'm not trying to be contradictory, but seriously, when I first started posting about this earlier today, I had no personal interest in this tablet, even though I could see how it would benefit others.

Now that I have had time to think about it, see what others have to say about it's potential, and realize what it could mean for me at home as well as work, I WANT ONE!!:D

matttichenor

Mar 31, 2003, 02:14 AM

If Apple has the technology to basically put the contents of an iBook (plus bluetooth and Airport Extreme) into a computer that would weigh in at 1.25 pounds...don't you think they would have done this by now? Or at least used some of this technology to make the iBook lighter?

I don't think it is impossible. Discard the Optical Drive, the keyboard, the trackpad, the flip out monitor and change the standard HD for the 1.8" Mini Drive from the iPod and you have already saved a bunch of space and weight.

The calculation I used was:

iBook 9" x 11" = 99
iPad 5" x 7" = 35

35/99 = .35

5Lbs (iBook) X 35% = 1.75 LBS

Subtract the flip out screen and you've got 1.25 LBS.

Bluetooth and AP Extreme can't take up all that much room.Maybe a bit more than standard airport.

Maybe I'm nuts but I bet they could do it. Maybe use a smaller battery, juggle the space and it could work.

Using the G3 saves a bunch of space as well, less cooling issues. I really think it's possible and don't believe it is a matter of creating new technology, most of the technology exists it's more a matter of cutting out extraneous parts.

m

unsigned

Mar 31, 2003, 02:26 AM

It's probably a video iPod, and everything that goes with that. Think of a TiVO that can also show what it stores.

Why:

a) all digital hub appliances are designed to require a mac.

b) TiVO etc. is a much more widestream use of technology than the PDA. Everyone watches TV, everyone would like to time-shift.

This device would:

Contain the new 80 gb 2.5" hard drive

Connect to TV via breakout coax/rca cable (similar to the monitor adapter for dual usb ibook).

Store video as smallish but high quality mp4 files (encoded in hardware)

Connect to mac via firewire for maintaining library (like iTunes/iPod), import/export video.

Retrieve TV show listings via Bluetooth from a Mac (no membership fee required)

View stored content on the 8.4" LCD screen.

POSSIBLY contain a DVD drive (portable dvd players can be had for $199 at discount stores)

POSSIBLY contain superdrive.

Run custom embedded OS like iPod.

Cost $799 entry model.

--
TV show sharing is the next logical step after MP3s. Already file sharing networks are clogged with episodes of recent TV shows.

This device will probably have macrovision or other common protection system and will probably not show content outside of it's native MP4 format. (i.e. not divX etc.)

wsteineker

Mar 31, 2003, 02:34 AM

Now THAT is something that I would buy without skipping a beat. I've wanted TiVO for a while now, but getting it from Apple with no membership fee would be even better!

otternase

Mar 31, 2003, 02:37 AM

One of the most important arguements in this thread is the Apple's ability to drag people into a new dimensions of utility and user experience with new devices.

Just take the arguments for all those "non-techies" out there who just want functionality, not Mhz-************.

I can easily cite myself as point-in-case: I always was a typical Windows user for the obvious reason that it was THE standard and that there was no alternative, anyways.

Then, back in '97 I was looking for a truely mobile solution - and opted against a laptop and for the Newton. I was amazed by the user experience: everything worked from the start and as it should. I plugged in a GSM-Modem - and could use mobile internet, send fax via the mobile phone etc. right away without spending days in user forums to find this and that HIGH_KEY to alter to "xxyyzz". This experience changed my way how I look at computers for personal productivity - and guess what: I first got an Apple desktop and later a PowerBook.

To sum it all up: we've seen that the components for a very usefull and versatile mobile device are there - and we all in this forum trust that if there's someone who can blend it all into a great device, it's Apple.

It's basically up to Steve and his marketing and financial folks to decide if it makes commercial sense. I just hope that they realize the amount of drag that such a device can create for the rest of the Apple hardware portfolio (....outweighing IMHO easily any possible iBook-canibalization).

I just would like to hear them my voice:

I'LL GO GET ONE AT ONCE !

Megaquad

Mar 31, 2003, 04:19 AM

It might have potential Apple adds some fun, innovative features to it.
Those PC tablets make me sick, so.. boring. I would choose laptop over it any time.

bobbylee

Mar 31, 2003, 05:27 AM

Without going into too much details:
it's a digital photo frame! a la Ceiva, if you've seen one of those.

what it is:
- 5"x7" frame, 8.4 inch TFT screen
- good integration with iPhoto (think iPod <-> iTunes)
- wireless download of images, Airport Extreme
- inexpensive, < $250

here's what it's not:
- full OS X installation
- pen input, ink well, etc
- PDA or anything like that

Comments or other ideas?

... as for the name, i won't bother speculating for now.

Sun Baked

Mar 31, 2003, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by bobbylee
Without going into too much details:
it's a digital photo frame! a la Ceiva, if you've seen one of those. Now that would have me laughing for days on end... :p :D

If one the biggest rumors of the year turned out to be a really simple tech gadget.

But it's production...
http://pages.prodigy.net/bestsmileys1/signs/lol.gif

mangoman

Mar 31, 2003, 05:48 AM

Totally agree. Good lord, if Apple wastes time making a digital photo frame... Sheesh!

MacQuest

Mar 31, 2003, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by bobbylee
Without going into too much details:
it's a digital photo frame!

Without going into too much detail...no it's not. :rolleyes:

Apple would be the laughing stock of the tech industry and they wouldn't do that to all of us in the Mac community. :(

Whatever it is, I know it will be as revolutionary to the industry, or industries, that currently have similar hardware & software and/or service offerings, as the iPod was to the MP3 market. :)

Chimaera

Mar 31, 2003, 07:47 AM

Personally I like the tablet idea and think its doable, I'd certainly have use for the widget, although I'd *really* like to see either a CF slot or a PC card socket on it - be the perfect companion to my digital camera then but even assuming it didn't I'd have lots of uses for it, assuming it ran a full-blown OSX rather than some embedded system. I will say though that I'd rather it *didn't* have an inbuilt optical drive if only for weight/power considerations - theres plenty of software available to do the same to DVDs as iTunes lets you do to CDs after all (even if it does take longer) so a firewire DVD-ROM would be more than sufficient for my needs :)

And speaking of my needs what would I use such a widget for? well...

- Video watching on the move (be they TV episodes or movies or whatever)

- Music on the move

- PDA duties (contact management and so on); I can't justify buying a PDA for what I'd use it for, but I could justify it as a feature of something like this :)

- portable network widget - so I can sit with my girl when shes watching TV and geek/do any of the above stuff while still spending time with her (and not having to pay attention to the drivel she likes to watch).

- This would be great for work too - I could take it with me, if only to store various access codes and system inormation on it (I do support in a university department with lots of offices)

so what technologies do I think are essential in this thing? the following:

- reasonable processor (say a 7-800 MHz G3)
- 256meg RAM (maybe with an option for more)
- Airport (although Airport Extreme would be nice too :)
- Bluetooth
- decent complement of ports (at least the same as the iBooks)
- Decent video chip

For something like that I'd be willing to pay £1000 easy :)

One thing I would like to see is a docking cradle with a port for keyboard and mouse and support for iSync *without* needing .mac to sync between that and another mac, but thats more a pipedream I suspect.

PretendPCuser

Mar 31, 2003, 08:48 AM

Now porn is all the more mobile. Beats looking at it on a crappy phone browser window.

Oh wait, did i say porn? I meant "the internet".

:rolleyes:

D*I*S_Frontman

Mar 31, 2003, 09:15 AM

Like many, I hold a healthy suspicion of what seems to be another incarnation of the "iWalk" rumor.

If Apple wanted to make handwriting recognition workable in a portable, why not make the touchpad on the PowerBooks bigger? That 17" could handle 2x or 3x bigger pads--just make a small square of it in the middle as always active as a regular tourch pad, but once the writing software is engaged the entire surface could be written on.

Yes, you still have that "wall" effect with an open laptop, but that helps hide your writing movements--keeps your notes discreet. It could also double as a portable graphics tablet. Both of those functionalities would add to the real productive usefulness of a PowerBook, as well as provide ample marketing points to beat up on the PC world with.

I think a dedicated tablet computing system is DOA. That being said, if anyone can pull a marketing rabbit out of the hat, it's Apple. There were other mp3 players before the iPod, but Apple's product instantly became the benchmark all others were and are compared to. Huge seller. Apple does not mind entering a market with competitors if it thinks it can offer a dominating, genre-defining offering that cleans house on the rest. Someday the XServe will be fully developed and adopted as a platform and then may become the "iPod" of the lower-end server market--especially if a comprehensive, all-threaded-application-inclusive, OS X native clustering solution comes down the pike, making those "clustering node" versions more appealing for animation and DV editing render farm applications. In any case, Apple has the unique ability to create a product everyone finds they needed all along.

Long story short--I think the iTablet is a stupid idea, but Apple can easily make it something we all love and have to have. Apple is the chief worldwide source of "gear-lust" tempations...

Frobozz

Mar 31, 2003, 09:17 AM

Never gonna happen.

robodweeb

Mar 31, 2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
If Apple wanted to make handwriting recognition workable in a portable, why not make the touchpad on the PowerBooks bigger?
...
Yes, you still have that "wall" effect with an open laptop, but that helps hide your writing movements--keeps your notes discreet.

Um, not really. A pen input system wouldn't work very well without some visual feedback to the person writing. With a tablet, the feedback is vertical and someone would have to be standing over the person writing to be able to read it ... a very noticeable and unnatural situation. If the feedback is via the laptop's screeen, then it's horizontally oriented and anyone standing/seated behind the person could read what is being written ... not noticeable and very natural occurrence.

This is one reason the tablet form factor is superior to a laptop if your goal is to input in a public setting and maintain some privacy.

Awimoway

Mar 31, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by bobbylee
Without going into too much details:
it's a digital photo frame! a la Ceiva, if you've seen one of those.

Yeah, and I see that your birthday is April 1.

2COOL4SCHOOL

Mar 31, 2003, 11:00 AM

When has poor market conditions stopped Apple from marketing anything?
What market is as competitive as personal computers or personal audio?
That has not stopped Apple before. SJ could have said "Everybody makes a personal audio player and all those features will soon be in cell phones." but didn't.
I know a tablet will never be a lap top, but if Apple does not offer a sub-note book, maybe it would be a good fit in the line up.

moosecat

Mar 31, 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by robodweeb
Um, not really. A pen input system wouldn't work very well without some visual feedback to the person writing.

I don't really care either way about this debate, but for the record, Palm has done pretty well with a pen input system without visual feedback (only recently have a few Palm OS devices begun to use a "virtual" writing area that provides such feedback).

Frobozz

Mar 31, 2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Luigi

(1) iBook being discontinued
check this link
http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=1906

I think that is one of the more insane rumors I've heard. Apple is going to discontinue one of their most successful lines? They're going to spend R&D to replace a proven, profitable product, rather than replace a failing one?

There will be no tablet PC's coming from Apple, and the iBook is safe and secure, IMHO.

kevinmyers

Mar 31, 2003, 11:31 AM

I think the last thing Apple needs to do is try to release a tablet computer. I have a feeling it would fail because no one wants a stupid tablet computer. Why when you can have a PDA for about $300-$400 dollars or just buy a full iBook?

But, hey, that's just my opinion

dongmin

Mar 31, 2003, 11:38 AM

So how much is this thing gonna cost?

The iPod cost $399 when it debuted, and all that went into it was a 5 gig HD, small b&w screen, battery, firewire interface, and 133 mhz ARM processor.

-Now if this 'thing' plays video, it'll require a decent color LCD with a GPU to drive it. Add $100 for the LCD and GPU.

-To surf the web or stream video onto it, you'll need wireless networking. Add $50 for Airport.

-You should be able to use a wireless keyboard + mouse for times you don't want to hand-write everything. Add $50 for Bluetooth.

-To run all the necessary apps on it, like full web surfing and games, it'll need a decent processor and memory. Add $150 for a 700 mhz G3 processor and 128 MB of RAM.

-A 3.65'' x 5'' wacom tablet costs $100. Expect at least that much in extra cost to add decent touch-sensitivity on the 5'' x 7'' screen.

So far, for just the basic hardware, I have $850. And I haven't included things like video out, IrDA, or USB (for connecting to your digicam). Add another $50 for OS X Lite and we're talking $900. For me this is a super-conservative estimate since miniturizing all the technology to fit into this form factor is gonna add a premium. And what about the development cost for designing something this complex?

So for $900, you have a slimmed-down iBook. What are the advantages over the iBook:
-portability (but not pocketability)
-pen-input

The disadvantages:
-no optical drive
-smaller screen
-fewer inputs (assuming no USB, no modem, no video out)

Personally, if I didn't already own an iBook, I would be very tempted by this device. Again, I think $900 is a super-conservative estimate, but even for $1000, the smaller form factor might be worth it trading off on the optical drive and 12" screen. This should have enough power to run all the iApps decently. And if Apple comes out with a light suite of office apps, this could be everything you need in a consumer laptop.

mangoman

Mar 31, 2003, 12:35 PM

Hey. I'm with ya. So... Apple... How 'bout it? Have credit card. Will buy.

uberman42

Mar 31, 2003, 01:45 PM

Here is one element...

Now i know the unix/win server crowd loves to administer their machines utilizing a PDA (e.g. compaq iPaq) or some other pda (Zarus) remotely....

And that firewire port on the Xserve's front panel looks mighty tempting to plug in some device in order to interface with it.

And Firewire over IP seems to be in the development circles.

So in this regard, where does this lead us in a tablet Mac? I think there will be a tablet, but will be targeted for teachers (how about blueboard interaction with students), businesses (order fulfillment, presentations and meetings), and sys admins.

It just sounds too good to pass up. If executed properly with focus...do a small number of things and do it great.

jettredmont

Mar 31, 2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by unsigned
It's probably a video iPod, and everything that goes with that. Think of a TiVO that can also show what it stores.

[ ... ]

This device would:

Contain the new 80 gb 2.5" hard drive

Only if you can drastically increase the throughput of the drive!

Folks, don't expect TiVO-quality video to be simultaneously recorded to and streamed from a 2.5" (or smaller iPod-size) hard drive; the throughput just isn't there, even if you use MPEG-4 instead of MPEG-2. Perhaps playback-only (or record-only; no simultaneous play/record timeshifting/fast-forward "live"/pause "live"/etc) could be managed, but nothing more without serious video quality degradation.

[/quote][/b]
Store video as smallish but high quality mp4 files (encoded in hardware)

Connect to mac via firewire for maintaining library (like iTunes/iPod), import/export video.
[/b][/quote]

And invite lawsuits by MPAA ... not the greatest idea, unless there will be DRM embedded in the video streams.

Retrieve TV show listings via Bluetooth from a Mac (no membership fee required)

View stored content on the 8.4" LCD screen.

BUT, if this device is going to be a "TiVO-like" set-top box 90% of the time, the $$ spent on that nice, bright screen is wasted! I mean, the screen is certainly the visual highlight of the device, if not the cost highlight of the device: why only use it <10% of the time?

yzedf

Mar 31, 2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Luigi
From here I am ASSuME:
Apple is coming out with a Hybird tablet of some type to replace the iBook
Powered by a G3
No CD/DVD (but supported via USB/FW)
30/40 GB HD
OS X (or some version of it. OS X is really *nix so some of the extras could be cut out)
Blue tooth
USB & Firewire (one of each)
Extreme Air port
10/100 NIC
Modem (not sure about this one)
256MB RAM (maybe 512)
All the iApps installed
Inkwell based HWR
Great battery life
For home users/schools/sciences
Only 1 version fully loaded for $999
Annoucment 4/1/03 8:30am on www.apple.com
Shipping 4/15/03

Lou G.

I doubt it would have AE. More likely regular 802.11b Airport, due to power consumption. No modem either (size). No NIC (that would be on docking station with the modem).

BlueTooth is a must have, great for connecting keyboard/mouse or for internet connection from wired source at the dock (modem or NIC).

No iMovie (too proc intensive) needed.

Of course the Dock would be dome shaped a la the iMac (think iMac styled screen and dome, w/o the arm).

Combo drive and 10/100 NIC and modem and charger in the dome 'natch. Screen can mount horiz or vert on the dome, with on screen display switching automatic like.

Or...

It could be a etch-a-sketch for the kiddies ;)

jettredmont

Mar 31, 2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by moosecat
I don't really care either way about this debate, but for the record, Palm has done pretty well with a pen input system without visual feedback (only recently have a few Palm OS devices begun to use a "virtual" writing area that provides such feedback).

Huh? I write a single letter in graffitti, then look at the screen ... yup, that's the letter I wanted ... I write the next.

The "privacy" issue isn't about having/not having visual feedback per written stroke (although, if you are doing full-form writing or certainly using international character sets, then per-stroke visual feedback is definitely necessary), but rather about the fact that if you are able to seewhat you've written, re-read it, organize your thoughts, etc, then someone siting behind you likely will also be able to.

IMHO, if you want a laptop-style with a tablet device, it's fairly simple to elevate the tablet so that it is not laying flat on the table in front of you ... but, as has been pointed out this fairly common pen-and-paper technique does not increase your privacy in all settings and in some may decrease it.

badger278

Mar 31, 2003, 02:03 PM

I see no reason that Apple couldn't be highly competitive in the tablet market.
Think about it. The Newton failed because Apple was ahead of the curve. The ideas were there, but the technology wasn't.
Now apple has a great operating system, enhanced handwriting recognition, smaller components, better battery life, wireless technology, and increased use of lightweight durable components.

I have been waiting for this product for some time now.... Bring it on!

DGFan

Mar 31, 2003, 03:00 PM

Someone's post yesterday got me thinking. An idea was raised that a small wireless device like this could be used as a fancy remote control for the home (in fact some companies currently sell high priced versions of this very thing).

Wasn't there a story within the last month about Apple working with Sony on new projects? So let's begin the rampant speculation. What if Sony happen's to come out with new tv/stereo components that happen to accept bluetooth control? And then Apple happens to come out with a small portable touch-screen/pen computer(-lite) that happens to support bluetooth? Or maybe this could explain the infrared rumors so bluetooth would not even be required on Sony's part?

Whether or not it's in the plans, I have to say that would be a very neat feature. Not worth spending a grand on by itself but in combination with other things (change ipod playlists, movie playing, scrawl-pad, contacts, calender, etc...) it would be.

laughingboy

Mar 31, 2003, 03:48 PM

I acutally believe the "iFrame" idea.

- when not in use (charging), this beastie sits in a dock that presents it like a desktop picture frame. It cycles through your photos with the Ken burns effect running - I actually made one of these out of an old duo (no Ken Burns though...)

- it acts like a media pod for viewing / sharing pictures or imovies.

- view backed up DVDs

- has RCA ports for displaying pictures and movies on tv or projector

- plays MP3s of course

- can also be a wireless tablet for surfing or doing some light computing

- with bluetooth, airport, and maybe some infra red, this thing can communicate and control with just about anything in your house

I hope that this is released as a platform that developers can use to create new functionality and applications.

Hmmm, sounds like I'm thinking past the rumour stage...

Cheers,

lb

GPTurismo

Mar 31, 2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Vector
Tablet pcs do not sell that well, so unless this thing has something revolutionary about it I doubt that it will come out.

If you mean under 300 dollars when you say revolutionary you hit it head on.

Why buy a "Tablet" when I can buy a laptop for 700 - 900 bucks. especially when most tablets out there now cost over 1500 dollars.

GPTurismo

Mar 31, 2003, 04:04 PM

But if it uses rendevous and could control your TV/Projector and DVD player and Tivo and lights and control the streem of mp3s from your main mac to your stereo.... :S

I might buy one

JBracy

Mar 31, 2003, 04:06 PM

Has anyone noticed that the dimensions are exactly the same as 2 DVD cases stacked on top of each other?

Interesting - eh?

wrylachlan

Mar 31, 2003, 04:23 PM

Just trying to think of the things I do now with objects of roughly those dimensions -

-Read Books
-Take Notes
-show off photos

the ability to do even just those three things in a simple elegent package would make me buy this unit. I routinely carry three or four books in my bag, not to mention lots of loose paper. To be able to go all digital with my reading material would be a godsend. I can't justify buying an eBook reader now, because the screens aren't that great, the software is sloppy, and if I'm shelling out 5 bills, I want it to have pda functions.

Believe me, if they release an iPad it will be thin and light enough to hold comfortably in one hand like a paperback, and will sinc with the Mac you have at home to download ebooks.

While there may not be enough of a market for a desktop replacement tablet, there is definitely a small market for ebook readers + a small market for pda's + plus a small market for video on the go + a market for something we haven't even dreamed of = a sellable market.

My guess is that they are waiting untill the g3 goes .9 so that they can get the form factor they want with the battery life they want with the speed they need. my guess is early 2004.

JBracy

Mar 31, 2003, 04:27 PM

I wonder if you will be able to set it to landscape or portrait mode depending on what you are doing?

dstorey

Mar 31, 2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by JBracy
Has anyone noticed that the dimensions are exactly the same as 2 DVD cases stacked on top of each other?

Interesting - eh?

by my mesurements of the free ones i got sent from AOL (yey they came in handy) its every so slightly shorter and about 1.5 dvd cases thick, but yeah very intresting.... sounds more like someone having a laugh or a conn but giving the benifit of the doubt (maybe cause i would like to see one of these things) it gives some uintresting posibilities. If it could be used a la tivo as some people hoped then i always thought it would look odd shaped on top of your hi-fi/dvd stack or n top of the tv but if its dvd case shaped then you could stand it in your dvd rack if you keep your dvd's near the tv and it will fit in. also it will be easilly carried with a stack of dvd's in a bag or whatever.

I quite like the idea of it being a part of the digital hub that links all the consumer electronics and computers in the house by being a universal remote control and viewer. I suppose a iPod could do this but the lacl of size for input may have been a drawback as if anything complex had to be entered you'd have to return to the mac. I like the idea of being able to control the lights, cetral heating etc from the sofa, access the mac's files/contacts, possibly include some sort of remote desktop software so if i leave the computer cause the films on then i can use the iPad(or whatever to continue my work while the breaks are on or to look something up without moving. send a IM to the girl friend in the kitchen to put the kettle on (ok ok only joking....) Of course when you leave the house it becomes a souped up pda where you can take class notes, record lectures (if it has that speach patent thing), administer the work network (especially the headless nodes like the xServes), play dvd's on the move (though ripped ones i guess due to size weight of a dvd/cd player, but mainly the cost). I quite like the id of it being a slave to the iPop as someone mentioned cause it'd lower the cost to those with an iPod, though of corse probably increase it to people like me without one.

Graphics profs could also use one i guess like a wacom tablet with thier power Macs. Maybe its a bit small for this but it could be used in slave mode where the screen mirrows a part of your main screen and what is drawn on to the iPads screen is also shown on your cinema screen or it could be set to use its own screen where you can move all the pallets onto the pad and just use it to select each tool, but that would work better if the actual cinema screen was touch sensitive. That would make it so the mose doesnt have to be used as much. .....of course you can always have the option to put a screen saver on it and use it as the fabled iFrame...

requies

Mar 31, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by JBracy
Has anyone noticed that the dimensions are exactly the same as 2 DVD cases stacked on top of each other?

Interesting - eh?

your observation is the most insightful i've yet seen! we really are on the cusp of the introduction of a brand new type of product from apple. this new device cannot be placed into any category currently known. once again setting higher standards of industrial design, the new apple empty-dvd-cases-glued-together will totally blow away the home consumer market. there are literally infinite uses including:

- stores up to two dvds
- conversation piece
- coaster
- and much much more!

it will be available on april first for the low low price of only $999.99!!! order yours today!

JBracy

Mar 31, 2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by requies
your observation is the most insightful i've yet seen! we really are on the cusp of the introduction of a brand new type of product from apple. this new device cannot be placed into any category currently known. once again setting higher standards of industrial design, the new apple empty-dvd-cases-glued together will totally blow away the home consumer market. there are literally infinite uses including:

- stores up to two dvds
- conversation piece
- coaster
- and much much more!

it will be available on april first for the low low price of only $999.99!!! order yours today!

oooh sarcasm. I like that :rolleyes:

requies

Mar 31, 2003, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by JBracy
oooh sarcasm. I like that :rolleyes:

no, really! once you hold it in your hands you can really feel the love that's been put into designing it! :D

JBracy

Mar 31, 2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by requies
no, really! once you hold it in your hands you can really feel the love that's been put into designing it! :D

A Jonathan Ive / Steve Jobs designed DVD case - I can see it now!

Maybe it's just the new packaging for iWorks!

Digidesign

Mar 31, 2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by wrylachlan
Just trying to think of the things I do now with objects of roughly those dimensions -

-Read Books
-Take Notes
-show off photos

the ability to do even just those three things in a simple elegent package would make me buy this unit. I routinely carry three or four books in my bag, not to mention lots of loose paper. To be able to go all digital with my reading material would be a godsend. I can't justify buying an eBook reader now, because the screens aren't that great, the software is sloppy, and if I'm shelling out 5 bills, I want it to have pda functions.

Believe me, if they release an iPad it will be thin and light enough to hold comfortably in one hand like a paperback, and will sinc with the Mac you have at home to download ebooks.

While there may not be enough of a market for a desktop replacement tablet, there is definitely a small market for ebook readers + a small market for pda's + plus a small market for video on the go + a market for something we haven't even dreamed of = a sellable market.

My guess is that they are waiting untill the g3 goes .9 so that they can get the form factor they want with the battery life they want with the speed they need. my guess is early 2004.

I'm with you on those points. Unfortunately, Adobe's e-book reader is ONLY for OS 9, so I doubt we'll be reading e-books on this tablet anytime soon. :mad:

tcolling

Mar 31, 2003, 08:40 PM

Here are some potential uses for this product. I apologize if any of these have been previously stated.

Recording device: Someone mentioned this already, but if speech-to-text is involved, it would enable a user to immediately highlight or flag a section of text for further review, in real-time as the words are being spoken.

Stats keeper: A PDA has too small of a screen to keep, for instance, basketball stats, but a mini-tablet would be perfect for this. Wouldn't it be cool to see Apple items on the sidelines of all sporting events? It would be great for smaller venues, i.e. high school, where there may not even be a table to set a laptop on.

Graphics input tablet: I think this was said also, but that would be great for value and dual functionality to be able to sync it to photoshop.

GPS: Great size for a fully functional, color GPS

This size item would be a field photographer's dream, able to do remote capture in a smaller size than a laptop, and still have a large enough screen to see the picture, and be able to write/dictate notes, and with the GPS store where the picture is taken automatically.

How about a power OUTPUT for those times when your cell phone runs out of power and you don't have a charger available?

eBook, digicam, movie player, etc., etc., everything else you would normally think would, of course, be included.

mangoman

Mar 31, 2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by JBracy
Maybe it's just the new packaging for iWorks!

Wow... (pause for effect)... could you imagine how stupid we'd all feel if THAT was the end product?

More time I'd NEVER get back... :p

Awimoway

Mar 31, 2003, 09:34 PM

I don't know how this thread degraded into PDA speculation. At this size, it is NOT a PDA. Not even a souped-up-PDA-and-some-other-cool-things-too. I give Apple all the credit in the world for being capable of thinking up a newfangled product that wouldn't have occurred to any of us armchair quarterbacks, but a device this size is not something you can stick in your back pocket and take anywhere. Thus, regardless of whatever else it it, it is not a PDA.

matttichenor

Mar 31, 2003, 09:39 PM

Who says a PDA has to be small.

PDA stands for Personal Digital Assistant.

Doesn't necessarily have to fit in your pocket.

I think my point is that this thread can go anywhere it wants to go... and the idea is that perhaps a tablet can do the work of a PDA and then some and therefore it is relevant to the discussion.

m

Awimoway

Mar 31, 2003, 09:43 PM

Yes, but it has a certain connotation of being something you take everwhere with you. I can (and do) use iCal, Mail, Address Book, and a word processor on my Mac at home as a "personal digital assistant" in the most literal sense, but it is not my constant companion. That's what my Sony Clie is for. No way would anyone but diehard technolusters carry this around everywhere they went simply for conventional PIM functionality.

It can do the work of a PDA, and it might in fact do the work of a PDA. But I can't imagine it being marketed primarily as a PDA. It's just too big for that.

eric_n_dfw

Mar 31, 2003, 09:58 PM

Every time I think about a tablet computer I immediately dismiss it based on one or more of the following:
They will/do cost to much for the model I'd be interested in
They're too big to be practical
They seem to be crippled laptops trying to be a PDA or an over glorified PDA trying to be a laptop (most pocket pc based machines)

After skimming the 100+ comments here I began to think about what my user requirements would be.

I'm a software engineer and part time student (finally going back to finish my BS - at 31! :rolleyes: ) So I carry a backpack with the following, every day:
My work laptop (Dell POS :( ) and it's accessories (Mouse, power supply, PCMCIA 802.11b card, network cable, Floppy Drive, and a few CD's)
2 - 3 folders with school notes, assignments and other papers
1 or 2 fat textbooks (by far, the bulkiest, heaviest items in there)
A work portfolio with a tablet and as much as 100 pages of work document.
A tech/programming book (Currently Cocoa Programming by Aaron Hilligass)

In order for this thing to work for me, it would need to following:
near full page size, 8x10 minimum and at least 1" thin, any thicker and my laptop (which I still would have to carry) would not fit with it in the same backback compartment.
Have BlueTooth and/or 802.11b/g and/or Firewire400 and iSync support on my Desktop Macs - AND - it MUST have some kind of Windows synchronization service of some sort too.
MP3/AAC audio playback (some cool BlueTooth headphones would be an awesome, overpriced, addition too!)
Some kind of audio recording
Enough muscle to play Keynote or PowerPoint presentations - including S-Video and SVGA plugs (no stupid, proprietary dongles to loose, please!)
No fan
A very quiet hard drive
Some kind of stylus/screen that makes little noise and provides a little resistance like a pencil on paper would.
Enough battery power for 8 hours of normal use (2 battery option?)
A charging cradle that makes it into a digital picture frame to show off my kid's pictures! :-)
Portrait and Landscape modes

Notice that most of my requirements are in the physical aspects - not the OS. Besides note-taking and address book type things, presentation display and audio playback/recording are my only needs. (okay, a few games would be cool too!)
The 8x10 size issue is not too big of a deal, I’ve never used a Newton, but everyone who has seemed to love their size – I guess I’d just have to use one to pass judgment on it.
If they can deliver something like this for under a grand, I’d seriously consider it.

Oh, does anyone know, do college textbook publishers distribute PDF versions of their books ever? If I could get rid of those HUGE stacks of dead trees I’d jump on that in a heartbeat!

eric_n_dfw

Mar 31, 2003, 10:00 PM

Oh yeah - and it should run iCal, Safari and Mail too! :-)

eric_n_dfw

Mar 31, 2003, 10:03 PM

BTW - all of my wish-list items could be done on a G3 based machine with limitted RAM (512Mb) and just enough of a video card as needed to support the OpenGL Keynote transitions smoothly.

Awimoway

Mar 31, 2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Oh, does anyone know, do college textbook publishers distribute PDF versions of their books ever? If I could get rid of those HUGE stacks of dead trees I?d jump on that in a heartbeat!

Not very often, that I know of. I just Xerox the day's reading and bring that. I've already had back surgery once before I was 25. I don't need that kind of abuse.

If Apple came up with the iPod for print media--including a quick easy way to scan in books that aren't available digitally (because this is the real challenge--getting the books you want, the way you want them: i want to the design excellence of a printed book rather than the ersatz look of most ebooks, and frankly ebook selection is pretty poor), I would pay almost anything to be able to carry around one device rather than a stack of books. But I'm sure this ain't happenin (mostly I'm trying to stay marginally on-topic).

eric_n_dfw

Mar 31, 2003, 10:21 PM

In trying to keep on topic, this could be Apple's killer app - some kind of deal with Prentice Hall or some other big publisher to have electronic editions with security - only on the new "iBackpack" for students!

Awimoway

Mar 31, 2003, 10:26 PM

Hey, if they can (supposedly) work something out with all the music labels, why not publishing houses?

otternase

Apr 1, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Awimoway
Yes, but it has a certain connotation of being something you take everwhere with you. I can (and do) use iCal, Mail, Address Book, and a word processor on my Mac at home as a "personal digital assistant" in the most literal sense, but it is not my constant companion. That's what my Sony Clie is for. No way would anyone but diehard technolusters carry this around everywhere they went simply for conventional PIM functionality.

It can do the work of a PDA, and it might in fact do the work of a PDA. But I can't imagine it being marketed primarily as a PDA. It's just too big for that.

Please do me a favour: forget about the this PDA / Laptop / whatever definition stuff.

A usefull device is any device that is full of use for the user :-)

You may have opted for the Clie, because you want something REALLY small to carry along anytime with you. But do you use it for longer data entries ? Do you use it to watch videos ? etc. etc.

People buy what they feel a need for. For some, a Palm or Sony or whatever is too restricted. So they just either work with their laptop or directly pen&paper-combination. I had people tell me with my old Newton that they considered it far too big for daily use. But I did not carry it EVERYWHERE, but just at times and places where I considered it usefull - BTW, those people where the same that impressed me with a 2lbs heavy handsomely leather-bound agenda next time around they visited me - and I'm sure they don't carry this sort of stuff around when they go to a ballgame.

Anyways: I firmly believe that for today's tech-savy users AND those that don't care about technology at all, in the end it's only the use (applications) and the data itself that matters - not the device (...letting the subject of design and beauty apart). So the main functionality of any device trying to find its way into the usage pattern of this large consumer group will be the capability to exchange data with as many other devices as possible.

Or, to make a long story short: think sync !

What Apple may be aiming for with a device as sketched out in this thread is to create a truely mobile and usage-oriented equivalent to their desktop digitial hub. Think of such a device, whatever the name may be, as a mobile digital hub. I know a lot of people will say that an iBook will do the same - OK, then go get yourself an iBook. However, an iBook also does fine to play MP3-songs with iTunes - so what was the use for the iPod in the first place?

I, for any case, am looking forward to such a hub that I would easily consider to be the central hub in my communcation behaviour - syncing info from the desktop to the tablet and from their on to my laptop, PDA and smartphone. Up to me, then, to decide which device I want to take along - and in a lot of cases, the tablet will certainly be enough by itself.

Others may decide they don't need a laptop or PDA anymore, but only will live with a desktop-tablet-smartphone chain-of-sync. But who care's - it's the data that counts.

Awimoway

Apr 1, 2003, 01:55 AM

I mostly agree. I do think the functionality of the device itself (not just the currency and completeness of its data) matters. For example, it may be true that any device will do for data access, but there is a wide range of functionality for data input. iPods have access but no input. Cell phones these days have both, in wildly varying degrees of functionality, but generally suck at input (granted, that's my opinion). A Palm/Pocket PC/Zaurus handheld is pretty good at short data entry, as you pointed out, but even then it's an acquired taste that some people never grow to like. A laptop can do it all, but who wants to whip out their notebook computer to "pencil in" a meeting?

So the question is, I guess, if there is enough of a space in the market to position a product that stands between handheld PDAs and notebooks? Some have tried (and are still trying) with subnotebooks and such, but they are always clamshell-keyboard devices. If Apple goes with a tablet form factor, maybe they will hit on something that really changes the marketplace (not that this is suprising where Apple is concerned).

My worry is that it will be compared most to the Palm OS/Pocket PC/Zaurus handeld market, but at twice the size of those devices, it will compare unfavorably. I guess it depends on how much Apple can fit under the hood. If it performs a lot more like a notebook than a handheld, then I think it will succeed. If it's running a really limited, stripped down OS, I don't think it will sell very well even among Apple-faithful.

nagromme

Apr 1, 2003, 04:24 AM

If it runs Mac OS and has a decent GPU, I can see myself dropping this in my bag or coat pocket at times when I wouldn't bother lugging my laptop. Thus, it would give me GREAT capabilities in many situations where I would have had none. It wouldn't replace a Mac, not even a laptop, for most people--but it would be a great companion. And for others, it might be all the computer they need.

As for the lack of keyboard--that WOULD slow me down. Does removing the keyboard half of the clamshell save THAT much thickness? I remain to be sold on that question. Even if writing works great, it's still slower--and does get painful after a while compared to keyboard. (Same with on-screen tap-keyboards, or physical keyboards that are too tiny.) I'm not saying it's thje end of the world, just something I'm not sold on yet. The cool factor might outweigh that :)

I've been thinking this is most likely to NOT be a Mac, but a more limited device like an iPod. But then, why SO thick? The thickness suggests a lot crammed into the case. A full Mac, possibly, minus optical drive.

Theroies on the ports:

Top four: USB, FireWire (suitable for networking so no Ethernet needed), iBook style VGA/composite out, and Power/recharge.

Bottom two panels: battery and optional AirPort.

Two side holes: stylus storage and headphones/audio out.

Built-in standard: Bluetooth.

Random wish-list item: an optional BT mini-keyboard could snap on as a screen-protector and recharge in the process... maybe wirelessly and without metal contacts, like my electric toothbrush recharges. (I see no other way the case described could connect to another clamshell or cover electrically.)

MacQuest

Apr 1, 2003, 05:24 AM

I just browsed the Tablet PC sites and most of them are approximately the size of a sheet of paper and weigh in at 3+ pounds. Also, they are priced and marketed as quasi laptops. None of that appeals to me, as I would simply opt for a laptop.

"JBracy" has noted that the dimensions for this Apple device would be like stacking two DVD cases on top of eachother. So I did, and I LIKE IT!!:D

Perfect size, and the weight would probably be cut nearly in half, so it could have all the functions of a PDA, more appropriate sizing and pricing [compared to actual computers], and so much more...yet not enough to cannibalize laptop/desktop sales.

If this device could be more of a compliment to a laptop/desktop [as opposed to a replacement] or, just be a standalone kiosk type device for non-computer owners that provides WebTV like features without the need [although an option] for a keyboard and a TV set top box, I think Apple could have a winner.

Add audio/video input & output functionality to appeal to students as well as business professionals and [puns intended], Apple will "School the competition" AND "Be in Business".

Bluetooth wireless connectivity for 3rd party peripherals and devices would benefit existing computer users while a possible IR port would let the unit be utilized in a home environment to control home electronics. Airport Extreme for network administrators who need to walk around offices all day and troubleshoot CPU's while maintaining access to the server via remote desktop features.

I could keep going, but the possibilities seem to become endless the more I think about it.

This part is important. Why does mostly everyone seem to be stuck on one unit, one price?

Make an "iPad" [or whatever] for home users and students in general. Let them get the Mac of their choice later on when they outgrow this device, or use it in conjunction with their current Mac.

Make a "PowerPad" [or whatever] for higher education students and business people/professionals. They also can later purchase the Mac of their choice when they outgrow this device, or again, use it in conjunction with their current Mac.

These should be more like minimal input [handwriting/touchscreen keyboard, audio, low res imagery, CD/DVD ROM?] and access devices for playback and remote control/administration, than a development device [editing, high res imagery, CD/DVD write capabilites]. Leave the latter to the computers.

Price these devices at approximately $599-$699 for the iPad, $899-$999 for the PowerPad. The difference in price would be justified by software, connectivity, and upgradeability options based on the end users needs. Use them as introductory devices to the Macintosh platform.

Existing Mac users will probably dive right in, being the early adopters of all things Apple that we are ;). More importantly, hook new computer users and Switchers at a low price point with a revolutionary product [ala iPod] and let Apple product recognition and reliabilty grow on them!!

MWAHAHAHAAHA!!:D

wrylachlan

Apr 1, 2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
In trying to keep on topic, this could be Apple's killer app - some kind of deal with Prentice Hall or some other big publisher to have electronic editions with security - only on the new "iBackpack" for students!

This is so right on. the killer app for a device of this kind would absolutely be content, and ease of access to that content. There were rumors a few months ago of an iBookshelf ebook app that were pretty much dismissed, but in conjunction with an iPad... and it certainly wouldn't be limited to textbooks. I routinely read parts of four different newspapers. If I could have all of that content automatically download to my iPad while I sleep, and then when I wake up, pick it up out of it's dock and go... I'd buy that - as would everyone else on Wall Street who rides the train to work.

Imagine you're reading the Wall Street Journal on the way to work. You see an article on a company that looks interesting. You highlight a couple of sentences, scrawl a note at the bottom and email it to your broker to get his opinion.

There is a huge enterprise market for this kind of functionality.

I also agree with the idea that this will not be a laptop or desktop replacement, in the way that Windows Tablets are being marketed. Instead it will be like an iPod - used for the few functions you need in transit but not full-featured. It would compliment the Mac, not replace it.

My guess is it would run something like OSX lite - with everything that is unnecessary for the specific programs it is running taken out: No need for drivers to support multiple screen resolutions - nor multi monitor support. No support for optical drives, PC cards, or any connection other than firewire, bluetooth, and maybe airport. No Classic. etc. etc. And with all the unnecessary stuff taken out, I would bet that OSX would hum.

websterphreaky

Apr 1, 2003, 01:03 PM

Our magazine (Tech-edge e-zine) got sucked into this Mac Tablet BS the day before MWSF, which never materialized of course.

We've just done a two month "user review" and survey which will be published laterthis month, on the Gateway Tablet PC (the best one out there). While most people thought the Tablet concept was "interesting", not a single person that tried it, or anyone we polled on our weekend radio show, said they would buy ANY Tablet type computer.

Why? Very simple; it's application is far too focused, as opposed to the universal use of a full notebook!

We've found that every PC manufacturer that has released a Tablet PC is losing $$$ big time on the product, and they ARE pissed at Microsoft's leveraged "insistance" that they pursue this market. Notice what savvy computer brands are NOT in the Tablet market? Sony, Dell and IBM.

This would be another suicide step by Apple if they pursue this concept.

Awimoway

Apr 1, 2003, 01:49 PM

Just out of curiosity, are there any Tablet PCs of comparable size to this rumored device? I'm not sure Apple is trying to do just a "me too."

requies

Apr 1, 2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by websterphreaky
Our magazine (Tech-edge e-zine) got sucked into this Mac Tablet BS the day before MWSF, which never materialized of course.

We've just done a two month "user review" and survey which will be published laterthis month, on the Gateway Tablet PC (the best one out there). While most people thought the Tablet concept was "interesting", not a single person that tried it, or anyone we polled on our weekend radio show, said they would buy ANY Tablet type computer.

Why? Very simple; it's application is far too focused, as opposed to the universal use of a full notebook!

We've found that every PC manufacturer that has released a Tablet PC is losing $$$ big time on the product, and they ARE pissed at Microsoft's leveraged "insistance" that they pursue this market. Notice what savvy computer brands are NOT in the Tablet market? Sony, Dell and IBM.

This would be another suicide step by Apple if they pursue this concept.

so maybe it isn't going to be a tablet pc? ;)

i know *i* could sure use a finely crafted dvd case.

jettredmont

Apr 1, 2003, 03:57 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030401/column_pluggedin_1.html

And one design that HP's Landry believes shows promise is the Scout, a design known in the industry as a 'tweener, because it's bigger than a PDA but smaller than a thin-and-light notebook.

About the size of an old-fashioned day planner, the flat-panel screen tilts up and has a retractable keyboard.

In discussions with customers, Landry says people often say about HP's popular iPaq that they wish it had a larger keyboard or a larger display.

"In my personal opinion, that's where I'd put my money right now," Landry said, declining to say when such a product might hit store shelves or Web sites for sale.

Hmmmm .... sounds like the same form factor, approximately at least, as the rumored Apple ... thing ...

Except it has a keyboard attached, and runs Windows of course ...

2COOL4SCHOOL

Apr 1, 2003, 04:59 PM

I like the idea of a tablet w/detachable usb or bluetooth keyboard. I hate that flip over keyboard on the pc tablets. I could just plug the tablet in my keyboard @ work (or anywhere else) if I needed a keyboard that bad.

If I could print from airport extreme (Yea Baby!) or usb, a small Apple tablet would make a great alternative to a sub-notebook.

I have a 15" PB (Love It!) but every day my Newton goes w/me and the PB stays @ home because of their size difference.

DGFan

Apr 1, 2003, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by jettredmont
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030401/column_pluggedin_1.html

Hmmmm .... sounds like the same form factor, approximately at least, as the rumored Apple ... thing ...

Except it has a keyboard attached, and runs Windows of course ...

To me the difference is that the HP product will basically be a tiny PC. If Apple releases a product you can be damn sure it won't be a tiny Mac. It might have some of that functionality but it would be designed with a "higher purpose" in mind.

j_maddison

Apr 2, 2003, 05:55 AM

I keep hearing people talking about whether there is room in the market for a tablet from Apple, and people keep commenting that the market is saturated. I think were ignoring some basic fundamentals of economics and strategy here. Tablets are new products, they may be based on old themes but they are a new product. One could argue that Apple is already late to market, which is unusual for a company that prides its self on innovation. The fact is that Apple should have had a tablet to market before the wintel community. Whether the product is successful or not is inconsequential, companies who waite for a niche to develop into a mature market before introducing a product find that the barriers to entry are too high and often find that they cannot compete. Unless your microsoft, in which case you pride your self on looking around and finding out what markets are lucrative and then leveraging your resorces, namley money, and using those to overcome the barriers. secondly microsoft dont have to worry about learning curves, because they can release any crap to market and people just accept the fact that it doesnt work, because the marketing giant that is microsoft have blinded people into a nescient state of beliveing that computers have to crash every five minutes, wipe your hard drive and require lots of money and technical support to fix and a phd is computer science to get up and running again so you can do some simple web surfing or write a document. i cant for the life of me understan why more people dont make the switch to a mac, the stress of the whole pc thing freaks me out.

apple need to release a tablet because if the product does develolp into a successful entertainment/work tool, then they will find that because of the high barriers to entry and steep learning curve they will have to enter into; they will be playing catch up. I think we often forget that apple users will usually allways buy apple products, but what we need is for more pc users to make the switch, and frankly apple's 'marketers' are crap at this. Were constantly talking about the 970 chip being available in powermacs, but lets face it your average home user will buy an imac. yes it is important that Apple retains its current customer base (Graphic designers etc) and keeps them happy, but it also needs to recognise that low end users will want to be enticed by the marketing hype surrounded by the 970 chip. ok so the marketing hype hasnt started yet, but it will. lets face it, a pentium 4 system realistically is in the same price bracket as an emac, let alone an imac. High end users might be inteligent enough to realise that higher initial capital outlay is offset by more up time and the ability to sort out many, if any, problems quickly themselves; but your home user wants a cost/speed ratio and will usually accept less uptime because they can go and do something else while their waiting for their wintel pc to be fixed by which ever computer company they were stupid enough to by it from.

Paradigm shift people, time for a step change. Apple's customer base is loyal and pretty much sown up, time to move on and make an agressive move into new markets, not offer them crap. Sure the iMac is a beautiful product, but it should be so much better.

no doubt i will be flamed or ripped to pieces, but apologies im not a techie. i just see ecomonics, marketing and strategy, and although Apple do certain things right, they always stiffle their own progress. sometimes Apple are Apple's own worst enemy.

Jason

Sol

Apr 2, 2003, 08:24 AM

But what about the iPod with which Apple was one of the last companies to enter the MP3 player market? The advantage of waiting is that you get to analyze the competition's mistakes. For all the hype tablets have received I still think that such portables are novelty laptops (some even have keyboards).

Apple could make the tablet relevant by taking the same less-is-more approach that made the iMac such a success. Perhaps the screens need to be smaller, expansion options limited and software updates minimized. After all, if a tablet needs constant maintenance then it is not so different from a desktop or laptop computer.

JohnStrass

Apr 2, 2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by 2COOL4SCHOOL
I like the idea of a tablet w/detachable usb or bluetooth keyboard. I hate that flip over keyboard on the pc tablets. I could just plug the tablet in my keyboard @ work (or anywhere else) if I needed a keyboard that bad.

If I could print from airport extreme (Yea Baby!) or usb, a small Apple tablet would make a great alternative to a sub-notebook.

I have a 15" PB (Love It!) but every day my Newton goes w/me and the PB stays @ home because of their size difference.
I just dusted of my MP2100. Not been used since I switched to 9.2, now I am on X. I dream of doing my word processing on my Newton again; I just dont know how to get docs transfered from my iMac 17in to the MP2100.
It is still the best form factor and was (in its time), a true laptop replacement.
Bring on the tablet/Newton2/whatever it is called!

2COOL4SCHOOL

Apr 2, 2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by JohnStrass
I just dusted of my MP2100. Not been used since I switched to 9.2, now I am on X. I dream of doing my word processing on my Newton again; I just dont know how to get docs transfered from my iMac 17in to the MP2100.
It is still the best form factor and was (in its time), a true laptop replacement.
Bring on the tablet/Newton2/whatever it is called!

Newton OSX transfer info :
http://misato.chuma.org/wikiwikinewt/index.php/HomePage

j_maddison

Apr 2, 2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Sol
But what about the iPod with which Apple was one of the last companies to enter the MP3 player market? The advantage of waiting is that you get to analyze the competition's mistakes. For all the hype tablets have received I still think that such portables are novelty laptops (some even have keyboards).

Apple could make the tablet relevant by taking the same less-is-more approach that made the iMac such a success. Perhaps the screens need to be smaller, expansion options limited and software updates minimized. After all, if a tablet needs constant maintenance then it is not so different from a desktop or laptop computer.

Yes I understand what your saying about the ipod, but such ventures are often the exeption to the rule. I dont want to get into a big debate over the merits of michael porters approach to economics and its weaknesses, but the successes of the ipod is mainly due to apple being able to leverage their core competences into a sustainable competitive advantage over simular offerings. An mp3 player is a basic device in its current incarnations, and while the ipod is a wonderful little toy its hardly the most inovative of tools. its minimalist and simplistic in its design, and had the competition brought out a more complex offering sooner then the success of the ipod might not have been so forthcoming. So yes yoru right they did capitalise from the competitions mistakes, but trust me that is a very very dangerous game to play strategically. No economist, marketer or Strategist would advocate such a long term strategy; youd simply die as a business. Also had apple been the first company to have got an mp3 player to market and made it available cross platform to all, then you can bet your bottom that they would have deeper market penetration. The fact is Apple has a loyal customer base, if not somewhat fanatical (myself included). we all want apple to succeed, how many pc users do you know who feel any form of atachment towards what is for all intents and purposes an inanimate object. yes you have a valid point with the ipod, but lets not oversimplify strategic choice, and agree that apple needs to take a step change and leverage its resources into a more agressive penetration strategy. A basic strategic mistake was to source their high end chip from one supplier, this form of strategy has seen many companies go under. Apple know that if they release a product, mac users will buy it. They have to look past this and offer something that is so different, and is first to market, that the pc using community wont have an alternative and will want to buy one. Once they buy something from apple, it could well spark off a more lasting relationship between Apple and the consumer. hopefully that will dispell some of the myths that pc users have about owning a mac, i feel like head butting people who talk about being frightend of using a mac because of compatibility and a lack of techincal support. For crying out loud i dont know a mac user who needs the level of technical support a pc user needs, purly because although the mac forum is full of people with problems, lets face it we sure as hell dont experience the magnitude of problems the pc community experiences. and as for compatibiltiy, goodness most people i talk to word process, do a bit of spreadsheet work if your lucky and browse the internet nad do presentation work. I've never found compatibility a problem, and they sure wont either.

as for your point on the imac, i agree the imac is a wonderfully aesthetic machine. hell i use one myself!! but the fact is its underpowered, its the OS and everything else that appease us as mac users. Even the imac user wants something that can rival a P4 of comparible price, and often the debate only centres around the top end powermac competing with the P4.

There are many things that Apple should include in its machines, which in previous years it has prided itself on. I mean i cant even fathom why apple isnt using DDR which runs at 300mhz (or is it 333, not to sure what the top end DDR is, which is used by P4 based machines. Told you i wasnt a techie :) ).

ok guess its time for me to say what i'd want from a tablet and not skirt around the issue, id love to see a fully funtional work and multi media device. I'd love it to be able to double up as a toy (DVD viewing, game playing, built in video cam etc) and a work tool (presentation capabilities, keyboard, voice recording capabilities etc etc). i work in sales and I'm finishing off an Msc at the moment, i currently use wintel in work and univeristy :mad: (trying not to use four letter words when i consider work ive lost or contacts and details that have been destroyed by stupid crashes or goofy error messages, at home i use a G3imac, and wo and behold no problems and no loss of data, and lots of pleasent up time :) . and i constantly use a pda, visor edge thingy with targus full sized keyboard (touch typist). I have an ipod, a web cam thingy, and a seperate mp3 player i use for running. So for me a tablet would be a very welcome subsitute to the PDA and would be so useful, i could carry it to lectures, tuck it under my arm and take it to sales meatings, take it on training, basically use it for so manydiffernt things. Problem is Apple havent made one, and i sure as hell am not going to waste mymoney on some crappy dos based OS that will cause me nothing but grief. the amount or training courses and presentations ive seen hampered because someones laptop doesnt work, its ridiculous. i guess the bottom line is I want convergence from a tablet, i dont want someone to ditch the keyboard in fact i quite like keyboard input.

anyhow, enough waffling.

Jason

-hh

Apr 2, 2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by dstorey
I quite like the idea of it being a part of the digital hub that links all the consumer electronics and computers in the house by being a universal remote control and viewer.

I'm thinking more and more towards Hub than Tablet because of a conversation I had with a coworker while showing him the artistic rendition...its roughly the footprint of a mouse pad!

That got me thinking...what about an ÜBER Graphics Tablet convergence device?

Take the exposed LCD and think of it as a Wacom graphics pad for doing stylus-based I/O. It suppliments or replaces your mouse/mousepad on your desktop PC.

Take some guts out of an iPod to make it smarter.

Integrate in a display so that the touchpad can do double duty as a TV controller, Stereo controller, TIVO (why not?), etc.

And grab a couple of goodies out of the old Newton toolkit.

A student can take it to class and take notes on the "Newton", then take it back and plug it into their desktop system, synch it up, listen to iTunes, iTIVO, etc.

A businessperson can use it for taking notes in a meeting, or plug it into a display and use it for a Safari presenation.

-hh

requies

Apr 2, 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by j_maddison

anyhow, enough waffling.

mmmm. i like waffles. maybe the new apple device makes mini-tablet shaped waffles?

uburoibob

Apr 2, 2003, 04:58 PM

Sounds like the iWalk to me, and I still think that it's the coolest thing since sliced bread. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

I think that this is a device that the more mobile younger generation will love, and I think that a lot of the grumbling is coming from older users who may be losing their ability to determine
"cool" from "useless".

I want it. I want it. I want it!

bmw328ciman

Apr 4, 2003, 01:31 PM

My friend just purchased a Toshiba Tablet...which basically functions like a laptop except that you have new note-taking software (which works really well) as well as a sticky note software. In watching him use it, it is really nice to have a pen instead of a mouse, and to be able to have quality text recognition in a working laptop.

I however am stuck with a Toshiba Tecra 8200, and although it works ok, am dieing to get a new 12" powerbook. My mom however works at MSFT and isn't an apple fanatic, hence the toshiba.

I believe that if Apple were to do essentially the same thing with one of their 12" books, (either power of "I") but with that classic apple twist of superior software ideas, I believe they would have a hot commodity on their hands! I am waiting for one, and would definitely purchase something like that!

nagromme

Apr 6, 2003, 01:06 AM

Not to beat a not-yet-alive horse, but...

I posted a trick for exploring Apple Inkwell even if you DON'T have a Wacom pen. Might give us some glimpse into tablet functionality--for instance, I didn't realize that Inkwell includes gesture support and modifier-key shortcuts. It seems pretty neat:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23795

Also--some thoughts on a few advantages of such a product (a small OS X tablet) that may help it find a market:

* It gives you a drawing tablet if you don't already have one. They ARE nice for sketching/doodling, much better than mouse.

* Wait... it gives you a DISPLAY tablet--SEE what you draw. Those are EXPENSIVE (and larger of course) from Wacom. NOTHING could be easier for drawing and image-editing than a display tablet. (Even better if the thing could act as a pen and second display for your other Mac--unlikely though.)

* A small tablet is EASIER to use than a large one, except for certain niches that need more. I have 6x8 Wacom--SMALLER than a normal laptop/tablet screen--and it's too big! Moving my arm that far gets VERY tiring. So I confine myself to a small area. The small Wacom Graphire is a MUCH nicer size, for both mousing and drawing. Similarly, a small tablet would be easier and less tiring to use than a big one.

* A tablet may be slower for text-heavy use... but it's FASTER for GUI-heavy use. Zero seek-time to any control or button. Look and tap. FASTER than a mouse! Think of using a tablet for surfing from bookmarks (not typed URLs), for editing iMovies on the spot, for managing and showing your iPhotos on the spot, many games, etc... it's all EASIER than on a laptop OR desktop. Not so with text-heavy apps like email and word-procressing, but those are at least doable anyway.

I can see that for some people and applications, a SMALL tablet could be the most productive device, vs. a laptop, desktop, PDA OR a large tablet. It would seldom be the ONLY Mac you'd want--so it better not cost too much.

Or maybe it's a black-and-white audio-only mega-iPod with no OS X, no touch screen, and only plays songs bought from Apple for $5 each plus $100/month...