Apple Provides Sneak Peak Of Media Center

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In a rare move, Apple provided a sneak peak of the long rumored Apple media center. Currently without a final product name, it has been codenamed iTV and has the apperance of a flattened Mac mini.

Providing various audio and video outputs, it is intended to be connected to a TV, communicating wirelessly with your Mac or PC and displaying a Front Row like interface for the content on your computer.

Key features:

• Built-in power supply (no power brick)
• USB, Ethernet and 802.11 wireless connectivity
• HDMI, optical audio, component video and RCA (phono) audio outputs
• Works with the Apple Remote

The 'iTV' is to be available in Q1 2007, priced at $299.

[Bosunsfate]

Wish I could get more details, but nice, very nice.

[gugy]

I love it! Great job Apple

[mkrishnan]

So it seems from the coverage that the device has no optical drive, and no internal mass storage? Is that correct? And also that it is not itself a DVR? Don't get me wrong -- I'm reserving judgment. I just want to understand at this point. It sounds as if the basic purpose of the device is to draw high quality AV off a computer and onto a home entertainment system, sort of as the Roku SoundBridge did for the iPod's audio, but in a very Apple sort of way? In other words, it follows the computer-centric sort of model where a desktop or notebook Mac on the network is the "server"?

[williamsonrg]

I'm really impressed with the price. Obviously they're not gonna talk about all the features this early, but so far it looks good. Will it record TV? I guess "no."

[macenforcer]

When this thing surpasses the capabilities of my Windows media center and Xbox 360 combo then I will be impressed. Until then Apple is playing catch up to MCE and playing it poorly.

[motulist]

Apple gave a sneak peak of an upcoming product. Is that a flying pig I see out my window?

[Silencio]

Ah, now this is what I've been waiting for: the Airport Express for video, plus a little bit more. If it were shipping today, I'd high-tail it to the Apple Store and buy one. But given a few months to think about the $299 price tag, we shall see if that feeling holds up.

This is very wisely not a direct competitor to MCE. Those who don't want to buy an entire separate computer to play their digital media on their home entertainment systems don't have to. But I suppose you could get the full-featured MCE-type setup by simply adding a Mac mini to the mix (and perhaps one of those NewerTech 500GB Mac mini-shaped external drives while you're at it).

[Diavilo1]

Definately has piqued my interest. I may have missed this but does it have a TV Tuner?

[Bosunsfate]

So it seems from the coverage that the device has no optical drive, and no internal mass storage? Is that correct? And also that it is not itself a DVR? Don't get me wrong -- I'm reserving judgment. I just want to understand at this point. It sounds as if the basic purpose of the device is to draw high quality AV off a computer and onto a home entertainment system, sort of as the Roku SoundBridge did for the iPod's audio, but in a very Apple sort of way? In other words, it follows the computer-centric sort of model where a desktop or notebook Mac on the network is the "server"?

I would make the same quess as well.

Trying to get the QT stream, but overloaded right now.

[sososowhat]

The price seems high to me - I wonder if they'll cut it to $249 or $199 before the actual release. Also, does this act like an Airport Express for extending WiFI range?

[macorama]

the users at macpredict got the nano and shuffle update dates spot on - shouldn't be too hard to pick the iTV Release Date (http://macpredict.com/events/Apples-iTV-Release-Date) in the lead up to christmas.

I just hope Apple isn't going totally consumer and forgetting the computers!

[motulist]

Does that usb port mean I could hook up a hard drive to the iTV and the drive would be available as a regular data storage drive available to all the computers on my wireless network?

[jk8311]

This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".

Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...

[ccrandall77]

This was the product I was really waiting for. It's cool, but I'm disappointed it doesn't have a DVD player and it looks like it probably won't work with EyeTV. So, I guess I'm sticking with my MacMini on the TV and hoping for a better version of FrontRow soon.

Of course, if this is like the Airport Express and can be used as a WiFi router (and hopefully it's 802.11n compliant), then I could see moving the iMac out of the bedroom and just hooking this baby up to a small LCD TV. I can always use Handbrake to create a streamable video file.

[gugy]

I think it's a great device.
The big question is about if the wireless transmission is good enough.
I had Airtunes and it was horrible using it from 40 feet from my computer to my living room. I don't have brick walls.
I guess it's safe now to buy Elgato use as PVR and transmit the show wirelessly to ITV hookup up to my TV.
That's sweet!:)

[slu]

I agree with most of the comments thus far.

I am excited at the prospect of an Apple "Media Center", but this just seems like wireless front row for your TV. Which is nice, but I want a DVR and I want to be able to slide a DVD in there. I don't want to have to go to my Mac in another room to watch a DVD. But I suppose Apple does not want you to buy DVDs anymore. And if you can't order movies from the couch, then it will also suffer.

And if it works as well as my airport express does for audio (which is just OK, a lot of skips, but then I am still on 802.11b because of my TiVo), then I will pass altogether.

Good price point though. And I wonder if it'll be Mac and PC?

[mdntcallr]

While this certainly is a nice interface to a entertainment system.

this certainly isnt a full function media center.

Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?

Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?

hey just asking. i know blu-ray is just getting started, but i'd like apple to be on it from the get go.

[Doctor Q]

Apple may need to take steps to avoid confusing consumers. Their multiple consumer products make it complicated for people who don't know Apple's product line, aren't particuarly technical, aren't sure which are products Mac-only and which are cross platform, and don't know how their hardware, software, and O.S. fit together.

There are plenty of people out there who don't realize iPods are made by Apple, and iTV (whatever it's true name turns out to be) will confuse them further.

[Derekasaurus]

Apple gave a sneak peak of an upcoming product. Is that a flying pig I see out my window?

I think they did it because iTV doesn't really threaten any existing Apple products, so people aren't likely to hold off buying something while they wait for it. It's still odd behavior from Apple, but I'm not complaining.

[Shotglass]

Could you please provide a link to the coverage? I never heard of this.

[gugy]

This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".

Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...


I think Apple had to compromise to be able to get TV shows on itunes pledging not to have a pvr to networks.
Elgato is here and they are good, so it's just a matter to buy it and use it to stream videos to your TV via ITV.

[slu]

I think Apple had to compromise to be able to get TV shows on itunes pledging not to have a pvr to networks.
Elgato is here and they are good, so it's just a matter to buy it and use it to stream videos to your TV via ITV.

Elgato is OK. Until it is able to change channels on my digital cable box like my TiVo can, there is no a chance in hell of me ever buying one.

[slu]

Could you please provide a link to the coverage? I never heard of this.

Are you serious? Check the front page much? :rolleyes:

[200paul]

There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription. You just subsribe to the shows you want and al la carte other shows after that. Networks will probably even do the season premieres free to get you hooked or add sponsor the shows to make them free. TV on demand is obviously the next wave - even the cable companies know it and have on demand etc. I mean not to be racist but I'm happy to stop paying comcast for the 10+ stations that are in languages I don't even speak. I barely speak english - hahaha.

In conclusion - its the same data - just different timing.

[dr_lha]

Nice, but I'd need to buy a new TV to use it. My TV doesn't support either Component or HDMI. Would a S-Video output be too much to ask for? I guess maybe they could have a dongle that converts HDMI->S-Video, like I use on my Mac mini right now (DVI -> S-Video).

[milo]

When this thing surpasses the capabilities of my Windows media center and Xbox 360 combo then I will be impressed. Until then Apple is playing catch up to MCE and playing it poorly.

Which cost what, five times what this will cost? The stuff you have will never go mainstream, it's way too expensive.

This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".

Nope. This is nothing like a mini, other than the box. Looks like it doesn't even have a hard drive.

Why no computer with all of this functionality? this is kinda like front row, but not much extra?

Why can't we buy a mid sized tower (in stereo size) which can have HDMI 1080p output? with blu-ray drive built in?

Because that would be far more expensive, with little potential to get cheaper. Something based on a full computer would never get cheap enough to really catch on.

[belovedmonster]

I don't want to have to go to my Mac in another room to watch a DVD.

Thats where having your Mac Mini in the living room comes into play. Its basically just a box to interface from a computer to the TV, where you put the computer is up to you, and in this case why not have a Mac Mini in the living room?

[maxspivak]

If the want to move into the den or living room, or better yet the home theater, they need more functionality for iTV. As described, it's more of a client for iTunes. Sure, it will automatically download and play movies and songs. But...

Quality: there are differences in iPod quality and home theater / big stereo system. I can happily accept lossy compression for iPod. Not so for multi-thousand-$$$ stereo system. Give me lossless compression from ITMS.

Same goes for movies. I don't want near-DVD quality stretched to my 120" screen. Even with a high-quality video scaler. I want HD - blueray or hd-dvd. I can rent hi-def disks from netflix today. Why, why would I settle for quality worse than what DVDs gave me for the last 10 years???

At least give me an optical disk. Better yet, break some new ground, give me a combo BluRay / HD-DVD drive!!!

Add's functionality -- how 'bout a PVR.

Will I buy one -- probably. But I expected something abit more radical than what they showed.

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

So basically this needs two things for me to buy it:
• You must be able to record from the TV, directly to your mac.
• It must replace Airport Express.

Im still not sure on the last one..

Optical drive isnt a biggie for me, since you can just stream from your Mac's Superdrive anyway.

And i like how they say 802.11 instead of 802.11g, which probably means we are gonna get 802.11n. Would also make sense why it isnt out now! :)

But why they are showing it of know.. Well.. Steve rreallyreallyreallyeally wanted to show of?

[miketcool]

This was released to make the other movie companies fold and agree to sign and give Apple their content. Why else would they allow everyone this info this early in the game? It is to make the movie industry drool and sell their stuff through iTunes.

[ftaok]

Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
The speculation from my general area is that Apple will never (never say never, right..) make a DVR. It's not in their interest to make a DVR. There are several companies that are doing the DVR thing for Macs (el gato and Migila) and IMO, Apple shouldn't tread those waters.

As for a Tivo killer, there's too much going against it for Apple to do. First of all, to do a DVR right, it's going to cost the end user a ton of money. The Tivo Series 3 will cost $800 (less with rebates) plus the monthly fees. Tivo's going to have a tough time convincing people to buy the S3 when the cablecos have an option available for $10/month.

Here's what I would like Apple to do. Open up Front Row so that companies like el gato can integrate their eyeTV software into the Front Row system. That way, I can have a Mac sitting in the office with an eyeTV box to record HD programming off of cable. Then, I could have an iTV in my living room to play the recorded material onto my 46" LCD HDTV (which I haven't bought yet).

If I want, I could initiate a purchase of a movie from iTMS (provided the quality of the movies are good) from the iTV itself so that it downloads onto the Mac in the office. A rental plan would be even better. That way, I could completely isolate myself from the real world.

ft

[risc]

An interesting device it sounds like the El Gato EyeHome. As long as it can play all normal video/audio formats (whatever you have QuickTime components for) and it has support for El Gato EyeTV I'll happily replace my XP MCE box with one.

[~Shard~]

The iTV sounds great, however if I buy one I’m going to want to be able to utilize it to its fullest extent. And right now, living outside of the US, without access to TV shows on iTunes, let alone the new movies, it just doesn’t make sense for me to buy one. Hopefully things will change next year by the time it is released, but I have my doubts. As a result, there are going to have to be some other amazing features incorporated into this box to convince me to buy it, otherwise I’m not shelling out good money for a STB which Apple has essentially crippled for me. :cool:

[mkrishnan]

I guess I could see this supplementing my DVR. My Mac can actually already stream video to my TV wirelessly using my DVR, but the video must be in an MPEG2 format, I believe, which makes the feature fairly limiting.... So I could see it.

I'm not too much of a dinosaur to abandon cable in terms of purchasing content, although it seems like it would be a much tougher sell than, say, abandoning having a landline telephone. I'm not sure about downloading movies. I think I really like the idea, and Apple is on the right track in that it's worth nothing to me without a way to watch on TV.

Anyway, I hope Apple wins with this. :)

BTW this reminds me of something very OT.... I have an iMac G5 rev B, right? It has mini-VGA out. Can it use the S-Video adaptor? If so, I really ought to just get an S-Video out for it and plug it into my TV that way...in my current apartment arrangement, it wouldn't be too much of a nuisance to use wires.

[dr_lha]

The speculation from my general area is that Apple will never (never say never, right..) make a DVR. It's not in their interest to make a DVR. There are several companies that are doing the DVR thing for Macs (el gato and Migila) and IMO, Apple shouldn't tread those waters.

As for a Tivo killer, there's too much going against it for Apple to do. First of all, to do a DVR right, it's going to cost the end user a ton of money. The Tivo Series 3 will cost $800 (less with rebates) plus the monthly fees. Tivo's going to have a tough time convincing people to buy the S3 when the cablecos have an option available for $10/month.

Here's what I would like Apple to do. Open up Front Row so that companies like el gato can integrate their eyeTV software into the Front Row system. That way, I can have a Mac sitting in the office with an eyeTV box to record HD programming off of cable. Then, I could have an iTV in my living room to play the recorded material onto my 46" LCD HDTV (which I haven't bought yet).

If I want, I could initiate a purchase of a movie from iTMS (provided the quality of the movies are good) from the iTV itself so that it downloads onto the Mac in the office. A rental plan would be even better. That way, I could completely isolate myself from the real world.

ft
Good to see some people around here "get it".

[baleensavage]

But I expected something abit more radical than what they showed.
Me too. The other announcements met or exceeded my expectations, but the iTV just made me wonder why Apple even bothered. It's not a very revolutionary product to warrant a preview. As far as I can tell is its a souped up Airport with HDMI ports that can run Front Row. What can that offer me that a $40 DVD player from Best Buy can't. The DVD player has better resolution, costs 7.5 times less and has more content available for it. Sure I don't have to change DVDs but Im not that lazy yet that I mind doing that.

Now if it would stream HD content... that would be another story. Give me another option other than participating in Sony and Toshibas little spat. That would be cool.

[jk8311]

The other possible reason for the sneak-peak from Apple is that analysts on wall street have been talking up a storm about a video-capable Airport Express. This was unusual for the event - I've never seen analysts buy into so many of the obviously fake rumors. This morning an analyst even used the word "TubePort" to describe the potential release. He totally lost any credibility the moment he did that. Anyway - Wall Street's expectations were high and I think Steve Jobs had to give in a little bit in order to keep stock holders happy. Also, if you've read the recent reviews about Amazon's new Unbox service, everything comes down to the fact that you ultimately pay the same price (if not more) for the file, wait for it to download, and are then limited to watching it on your computer or iPod.

They were expected to introduce an end-to-end solution that would allow people to download movies and play them back on a TV - unlike Amazon's Unbox service that limits viewing to the TV. So now Apple can't be grouped in the Amazon category and people will start buying movies with Apple's iTunes serivce since they know that within 3-4 months they'll have an end-to-end solution with the "iTV". Why get stuck with the Amazon service if you can't get it to the TV...

[milo]

Thats where having your Mac Mini in the living room comes into play. Its basically just a box to interface from a computer to the TV, where you put the computer is up to you, and in this case why not have a Mac Mini in the living room?

Why would you? I want my computer on my desk, with the right chair and the right monitor. In the living room, it's cumbersome to use as a computer, it's tied up when someone is watching TV, and my TV makes a poor monitor. This box is great because it lets me avoid doing that.

Now if it would stream HD content... that would be another story. Give me another option other than participating in Sony and Toshibas little spat. That would be cool.

Given the ports, sounds like it might.

[GroundLoop]

As long as I can use the USB port on it to hook up my printer (thereby replacing the Airport Express), then I will likely get one of these.

Hickman

[djfern]

Well, i see it like this. iTV is just the beginning of something quite new and quite big for apple. Compare it to the release of the original iPod - black and white, audio only, expensive, small capacity. The killer thing about the iPod was less about it's features than it's interface and operability with itunes. It made something - portable music player - easier and more elegant.

And that's what iTV is. Today, if you want to play movies you've downloaded, you need a multi-media DVD player (with divx and mpeg support) and you need to burn discs. Play a CD on the stereo? Hook up your ipod or laptop to a cable. Etc.. This device eliminates the need to burn discs for video and makes it easier to view content - however acquired - that's already on your computer. Bravo. Simple. It's not trying to be everybody's everything. Like i said, the original iPod only played audio. That was enough for a start.

Will they add a hard drive? Probably. Will you be able to download HD quality movies from the internet with this thing? Eventually. But Apple's gonna do it one step at a time. They'll introduce a basic device at first, see what people think and how it does, and add features carefully and slowly over time. This recipe worked wonders with the iPod. I think it will work here too.

[syklee26]

is this iTV thingee going to have wireless router function? then it replaces airport express. if not, then no.

[danielwsmithee]

I have to disagree with many of the comments on this thread. I think this is an ideal device. I don't want a computer connected to my TV I want to gain access to the content on my computer on my TV. It is two different ways of looking at these products.

As far as not having a DVR/tuner that should be done on your computer. The products available from elgato eyeTV etc. are already excellent and probably much better then Apple could start up and hope to compete with. EyeTV is already compatible with iTunes and the iPod, and it will be for this too. You just have to realize that the recording is going to happen at your computer not your TV. I really think the combination of eyeTV, iTunes and iTV is going to be much better then any competitors MCE etc.

It all goes back to Apple's philosophy of making the computer the center of your digital life. The TV is just a tool now to view what you have on your computer.

This does also offer one advantage over the mini besides price component video.

[MacMiniOwner]

I think the iTV is a fairly 'dumb' box that just drags media off you Mac on tou your TV...I've been doing this for years with a chipped xbox :)

[ClimbingTheLog]

There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription.

Not at the current prices, they won't. I just did some quick math and for our household, (and we don't watch much TV by national standards), this content model is 50% more expensive than satellite for the shows we watch, and that doesn't include being able to turn on FoodTV or HGTV for some veg. time on occasion.

At 99 cents a show it starts having a price advantage. The trouble with TV is the bandwidth for value balance - a 3.5MB song I'll listen to a hundred times. A 250MB TV show I'll watch once, twice if it's incredible, only more if it's "Best of Both Worlds". Broadcast has a big advantage here.

[jvegas]

Will it support third party codecs?
Does it have an internal flash drive?
Will I be able to order Music, TV shows and Movies using it?
Do I need a separate computer to use it?

So far, I'm not impressed. How's it different than a media extender?
I would rather have seen a mac mini with core 2 duo, better graphics support, an internal 3.5" hard drive, and HDMI.

[danielwsmithee]

is this iTV thingee going to have wireless router function? then it replaces airport express. if not, then no.yes it will. Probably 802.11n. It will also have a USB port. They could do a lot of interesting things with the USB port. You could connect your or a friend's iPod and gain access to all the content on the iPod. You could connect a printer like the Airport Express, or what I hope most of all is NAS. Imagine being able to connect a USB drive and have a file server for your whole house, anything in the movies, music, or photos folders can be played by iTV.

[pyramid6]

You want me to pay the same amount for the content another $300 for a new VCR, and it is almost as good as what I have? Plus I'm going to have to wait 2+ hours for it to download, plus nothing extra. Granted I probably will buy it. What is it with this Cult called Mac?

[ClimbingTheLog]

I would rather have seen a mac mini with core 2 duo, better graphics support, an internal 3.5" hard drive, and HDMI.

Don't count it out, but that's not a mass-market machine worth pre-announcing.

[maxspivak]

This device eliminates the need to burn discs for video and makes it easier to view content - however acquired - that's already on your computer. Bravo. Simple.


But at what quality??? Q1 2007 is as late as end of March. HD-DVD came out in April 2006, and BluRay in -- what -- May? So almost a year later Apple introduces a device that will play *near* (i.e. lower than) DVD-quality when the market is finally warming up to HD quality disks.

Regular DVD is 480i. Say that near-dvd quality is 420i. It will look like crap on that "big screen plasma" Jobs talked about.

He's marketing it to someone who will plug it into a $5K+ TV. At that price point, give us HD playback, both optical and streaming/downloaded, legally. I'd be happy to pay double or triple for a box that does it smoothly.

[Drewnrupe]

Please excuse me if I am missing something totally obvious here as I am a relatively new convert to Apple.

This looks like a nice little solution but I am not sure its anything revoloutionary. I currently have an airport express in the bedroom connected to an eyehome unit that does the same job as far as i can see.

Granted it cannot handle Purchased itunes songs ( which i can stream out of the airport directly though) and I guess therfore wont play itunes movies - but that is an apple restriction on ElGato.

As far as TV goes though, this setup with an EyeTV 200 attached to the computer is effectively the Tivo Killer I keep hearing talk of - I certainly chose this route after discovering that the tivo lifetime licenses were not available any more and not wanting another bill every month.

The apple box also would not work for me (as far as I could see) as I use a regular old TV in the bedroom without component inputs - just rca and s video.

Plus I get the benefit of the airport express extending my wireless network into the bedroom so laptop access is great throughout the house now.

Seems that downloaded movies arent going to be big in this house if i need to replace current hardware with something so similar that wont drive my TV (and who knows if it will pick up eyeTV programs either ) just to watch the purchased movies.

So can someone enlighten me what was so different about the Eyehome and airport express combo that makes this new box so great ? ( I am really open to being convinced - dont usually have a problem talking myself ito new toys)


Current setup Will be even better when this 700 G4 gets replaced by the new 24" imac arriving Friday ....... wasnt supposed to ship until the 18th !!!! Im Stoked

Drew

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I think it was a big mistake not to add a HD/TV-tuner/optical reader... THAT could be a killer. Right now we have an upgraded Airport extreme.

[UberMac]

Anybody else a little suspicious of just "802.11"...I'm thinking it's got to be 802.11n otherwise they would specify extreme. (Which means new adapters for computers on existing technology)

Also the small matter of the interface (which I love)...I reckon that's the "new" FrontRow interface we'll be gettign in Leopard which is nice to look forward to!

Uber

[cgmpowers]

I agree, they most likely left out the DVR function because of the movie and television studios. Why would someone want to 'buy' an older movie for $10 when you can record it via EyeTV and edit out the commercials and the transfer it to your iTunes (which is exactly what the new version of EyeTV does!).

No wonder Apple made EyeTV unbundle it from Front Row... At least I can still record, edit out commercials and transfer to iTunes!! Who needs Tivo anymore!!

Christopher Powers

I think Apple had to compromise to be able to get TV shows on itunes pledging not to have a pvr to networks.
Elgato is here and they are good, so it's just a matter to buy it and use it to stream videos to your TV via ITV.

[tdar]

It looks like iTV will be Apple's way of doing what Microsoft's pika extenders do for Windows Media Center. I think this is smart.....hate to break it to some of you but most people do not want a computer in the LR. A quiet CE device that is networked to a computer you already have..... thats as far as we are going to be able to push the mainstream just now.

[gugy]

I have to disagree with many of the comments on this thread. I think this is an ideal device. I don't want a computer connected to my TV I want to gain access to the content on my computer on my TV. It is two different ways of looking at these products.

As far as not having a DVR/tuner that should be done on your computer. The products available from elgato eyeTV etc. are already excellent and probably much better then Apple could start up and hope to compete with. EyeTV is already compatible with iTunes and the iPod, and it will be for this too. You just have to realize that the recording is going to happen at your computer not your TV. I really think the combination of eyeTV, iTunes and iTV is going to be much better then any competitors MCE etc.

It all goes back to Apple's philosophy of making the computer the center of your digital life. The TV is just a tool now to view what you have on your computer.

This does also offer one advantage over the mini besides price component video.

Ditto.
I think the idea is brilliant if it work flawlessly. If the wireless transmission is great then this will be a killer product.
Why not buy Elgato, They make good stuff and Apple do not have to worry about networks being mad at them for making a dvr.
Guys this is the future.
It seems that will stream HDTV content, so I have my Elgato recording my favorite show in HDTV than it streams it to my flat panel and I can control it from my couch without having to go back to my computer on the other room.
I can access the itunes store, see my photos listen my music, etc.
What else you guys want?

[alexdrinan]

Here's what I would like Apple to do. Open up Front Row so that companies like el gato can integrate their eyeTV software into the Front Row system. That way, I can have a Mac sitting in the office with an eyeTV box to record HD programming off of cable. Then, I could have an iTV in my living room to play the recorded material onto my 46" LCD HDTV (which I haven't bought yet).

Seems to me this could be done without Apple having to open up Front Row. If Elgato added some sort of "export recording to iTunes Video Library" option (that also deletes the original file after export completes), you could have your stuff recording on your mac and ready to stream to iTV. I'd imagine you could also set up some sort of Smart Playlist in iTunes to show unwatched recordings that carries over to the iTV interface.

[brepublican]

I think this is a great product from Apple and shows great foresight. SJ and Apple recognise that they can't surplant the TV from the living room.

And for everyone already moaning over a 'beta', I dont even know what to say to you. There is a reason it is not being released today. Is it perfect yet? No. Is it complete? No. Will it be able to record TV shows? Who knows? But its good to bear in mind that this is not a final product, and seems to me like its FAR from being done.

Overall, good job by Apple. It's definitely a move in the right direction.

[Phat Elvis]

There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription. You just subsribe to the shows you want and al la carte other shows after that. Networks will probably even do the season premieres free to get you hooked or add sponsor the shows to make them free. TV on demand is obviously the next wave - even the cable companies know it and have on demand etc. I mean not to be racist but I'm happy to stop paying comcast for the 10+ stations that are in languages I don't even speak. I barely speak english - hahaha.

In conclusion - its the same data - just different timing.

I totally agree with this. This is the perfect device for Apple to start selling subscriptions to shows to replace cable. A la cart cable legislation is picking up steam and this will put iTunes in the cable business. Think about how many households have iPods, now compare that number to the HUGE number of houses that have cable. Wouldn't you rather pay for only the shows that you watch?

The think that worries me is that there is no mention of this device being able to play non-iTunes movies. What about if you back up a DVD to your computer. Can you play it on this? We'll have to wait and see.

[danielwsmithee]

But at what quality??? Q1 2007 is as late as end of March. HD-DVD came out in April 2006, and BluRay in -- what -- May? So almost a year later Apple introduces a device that will play *near* (i.e. lower than) DVD-quality when the market is finally warming up to HD quality disks. Dude did you miss the coverage. This thing plays HD. He played Incredibles in HD. Just because the content they are offering now is 480p does not mean that it will be 6 months from now when this is released. Also the HDMI and component connectors would be pointless if it was not HD.

[redAPPLE]

where is the pre-order list, where i can register? :D

[danielwsmithee]

Seems to me this could be done without Apple having to open up Front Row. If Elgato added some sort of "export recording to iTunes Video Library" option (that also deletes the original file after export completes), you could have your stuff recording on your mac and ready to stream to iTV. I'd imagine you could also set up some sort of Smart Playlist in iTunes to show unwatched recordings that carries over to the iTV interface.It's already there they call it export to iPod.

[ddrueckhammer]

This may be a great piece of hardware but until they lower download prices, be they buy or rent, I'm not really interested. This box makes the Apple offering more interesting than Amazon but the ability to rent for $4 makes the Amazon offering far more economical. Neither one will replace my Netflix account but the Amazon service comes alot closer...Anyone who pays these prices without extras or physical media is a fool IMO...

[digitalbiker]

If this is all iTV is going to offer for $249 then forget it.

I'll just use a cable to hook my laptop to my TV.

Voila! I just replaced iTV for less than $5.00.

[lom8104]

So would "iTV" run OS X or just Front Row? What kind of processor? Old PowerPC's perhaps?

[danielwsmithee]

Please excuse me if I am missing something totally obvious here as I am a relatively new convert to Apple.

This looks like a nice little solution but I am not sure its anything revoloutionary. I currently have an airport express in the bedroom connected to an eyehome unit that does the same job as far as i can see.You are right it does nearly the same job. A few differences, one you pointed out the eyeHome can't play copy protected files. The other this thing plays HD not SD like the eyeHome.

My guess is elgato will not offer the eyeHome once this comes out.

[mommy]

I've been coming to MacRumors since maybe 2001, but this product has finally inspired me to register. Welcome, iTV - I can't wait til you're part of our living room.

I'm posting with a request too, because there are so many excellent writers on here. Please, someone needs to write a site/blog about getting media ready for the forthcoming iTV. My iTunes and iPhoto libraries are just a mess, and I have stuff on DVD that I don't have a clear idea of how to rip and catalog. If you have a good "system," create a how-to guide, please!

[powerbook911]

I'll be buying this. No question. :)

[iMikeT]

A sneak peak of a rumored product from Apple?:eek:

[dextertangocci]

What is up with that price???:confused: :eek:

Is it a mistake?!?!?

It is SO cheap!

[danielwsmithee]

If this is all iTV is going to offer for $249 then forget it.

I'll just use a cable to hook my laptop to my TV.

Voila! I just replaced iTV for less than $5.00.Price for me $1099 cheapest MacBook plus $5 cable $1104. I think I'll take the $249.

[alexdrinan]

I totally agree with this. This is the perfect device for Apple to start selling subscriptions to shows to replace cable. A la cart cable legislation is picking up steam and this will put iTunes in the cable business. Think about how many households have iPods, now compare that number to the HUGE number of houses that have cable. Wouldn't you rather pay for only the shows that you watch?

I don't think any of these services will ever replace cable. Maybe the "premium" packages that offer ondemand and DVR etc., but never just plain old cable TV. Sometimes you want to just turn on the TV and flip around to see what's on, beyond just the local channels you can pick up with an antenna.

[RichP]

Dude did you miss the coverage. This thing plays HD. He played Incredibles in HD. Just because the content they are offering now is 480p does not mean that it will be 6 months from now when this is released. Also the HDMI and component connectors would be pointless if it was not HD.

Exactly. In the end, we only had a sneak peak, and dont know much.

I will say that we were shown the back ports, so I doubt there is going to be any other inputs/outputs added.

This IS the iPod of home theater. Just read back in this thread about people who have this unit beat: "Ive got a chipped xBox that does the same" "My xbox 360 and Windows MCE can do this" "All I need is x, y, and z to do this much better" There were MP3 players before the ipod; the ipod made it simple for AVERAGE users; we on here generally dont represent average users.

Buy it, plug it in, it works. No keyboard, no booting up, etc etc. A computer on a TV makes things more complicated.

[beaster]

But at what quality??? Q1 2007 is as late as end of March. HD-DVD came out in April 2006, and BluRay in -- what -- May? So almost a year later Apple introduces a device that will play *near* (i.e. lower than) DVD-quality when the market is finally warming up to HD quality disks.

Regular DVD is 480i. Say that near-dvd quality is 420i. It will look like crap on that "big screen plasma" Jobs talked about.

He's marketing it to someone who will plug it into a $5K+ TV. At that price point, give us HD playback, both optical and streaming/downloaded, legally. I'd be happy to pay double or triple for a box that does it smoothly.

Agreed. If it can't do HD, I'll pass.

-Sean

[T-Bone]

I bought a DVI->S-Video adapter for $15 and an S-Video cable for about $20. Guess what. I can watch TV shows and movies downloaded to my hard drive on my TV. Sooooo.... $35 vs. $300. Let me see.

I realize they are saying that you're getting high-def, and it's wireless, but I have a hard time believing that a movie you can download in a half hour will be as good of quality as a DVD which is nearly 8gb in size. And yes, I realize part of those 8gb are extras and such, which of course you won't be getting even though you are paying close to what you would pay for a brand new DVD. Also, I have wires running all over the place already (cable, phone, speakers, electrical, etc.) so one more wire isn't killing me.

I'm sure there will be people that buy into this. How many? I predict very few.

[rugbyboy]

Now see its a step in the right direction to be sure. There will be features announced which will make it more attractive

But unless they add the ability to attach a hard drive or something to hold content on then this isn't going to sell at all.

You probably forget that iTunes TV shows are not available nowhere else in the world except the US. Neither are the films for the time being. so what do we have to watch in the rest of the world? Nada!

I really want this to be better for launch. Lets see what happens eh?

[squibran]

I am looking forward to the specs of this device
I bought a Mac Mini and found that it would not show up on my Acer 24" tv while running as a mac but would if I booted up as a PC - I checked resolution and refresh rate when working as a PC and replicated it when in Mac mode but to no effect.
Has anyone else had problems like this?
I tried using DVI and VGA and the same with both - worked as a PC but not as a Mac.
Also interested in the new device as to whether it will read my Iphoto libraries?
Any sound advice appreciated!!

[alexdrinan]

It's already there they call it export to iPod.

Well there you go. But I assume it's converting the video to the low res format that the ipod can play. Do they have an export option that keeps it at the same quality it was recorded at?

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Apple gave a sneak peak of an upcoming product. Is that a flying pig I see out my window?

Yes.

Well, also, "iTV" is sort of completely unexpected. A hardware release by Apple unhyped? That would make two pigs flying outside my window.

[digitalbiker]

Wouldn't you rather pay for only the shows that you watch?


Movies, maybe.

But if you are going to be charging me for every news, weather, sports, or entertainment program that I watch on a daily basis it is going to have to be a lot, lot, less than paying for satellite / cable and watching what I want.

I think the current price for satellite / cable is reasonable but if a service is going to charge me per show, they would have to charge pennies for it. Otherwise it just wouldn't be competitive price-wise.

[puuukeey]

I just hope it gets hacked so 3rd parties can add functionality to it. (unlike front row)

video chat
screen savers
3rd party applications
RSS
3rd party streaming media formats
keyboard and mouse.
larger remotes.

[Drewnrupe]

The other this thing plays HD not SD like the eyeHome.

.
I have seen this stated a few time - but not stated anywhere by apple.
All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"
People seem to be deducing that the demo was showing HD quality, but it was not claimed as such I dont think.
Have to wonder if that will be available over the wireless connection as well or maybe just if you hard wire through the ethernet port.
I think there would have been something specific stated if iTV was going to allow streaming of HD video.

Drew

[thejadedmonkey]

It needs DVR recording for this price point. As someone else mentioned earlier, I can use a $5 cable to connect my computer to my TV. It need something else that will make me want to spend the extra $244 on it. Either that, or apple needs to stop touting the iMac as a media PC because the TV will compete with it.

[theBB]

I just hope it gets hacked so 3rd parties can add functionality to it. (unlike front row)

video chat
screen savers
3rd party applications
RSS
3rd party streaming media formats
keyboard and mouse.
larger remotes.
Get a Mac mini.

[skellener]

This is the perfect device for Apple to start selling subscriptions to shows to replace cable. Wouldn't you rather pay for only the shows that you watch?

You are absolutely correct!

Repeat after me...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...there will NEVER be a DVR from Apple...

Apple does not want you to record television. They want you to purchase shows from iTunes! Case in point iTV.

As fas as wouldn't I rather pay for only the shows I watch? Sure! But Apple's current pricing is much to prohibitive. It's cheaper for me to pay $50 a month for DirecTV with the HD option than to pay $2 a pop per tiny 320x240 (oops, excuse me 640x480) episode. The price needs to come down and the quality needs to go up (again) for me to ditch DirecTV. I would be happy to do it, if the price/quality meets my needs. Maybe by 2008?

[PJWilkinson]

I've just got back from the live streamed event in London and summarised the key highlights of the show here:

http://blog.crowdstorm.com

I wish I'd had my camera now. I did have a chance to play with all the products (except iTV) and must say the ipods look a lot smaller and the iTunes interface is very slick. iTV was basically a flat apple mini with lots of connectors out the back for the TV - no one could convince us that the 640x480 would be enough for HDTV or which wireless protocol it would use.

[Play Ultimate]

I just hope Apple isn't going totally consumer and forgetting the computers!

WHAT!?!??!?
They just released a new 24" iMac last week and updated the others.
:eek:

[HiRez]

I'd like nothing better than to be able to dump Comcast completely, but without the ability to watch live sports, it's a no-go. If they start streaming games for a couple bucks, I'd definitely take a look at it.

-- Any regular-season game from any sport = $1.99

-- Any playoff game from any sport = $2.99

-- NFL season pass (1 team, 16 games) = $30
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $20

-- NBA season pass (1 team, 60-70 games) = $50
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $30

-- MLB season pass (1 team, 130-150 games) = $70
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $30

-- Triple Play bundle (3 seasons of any sport, 1 team each, plus all playoff games) = $200

I would definitely go for that!

[Steve Jobless]

any pictures?

[digitalbiker]

I have seen this stated a few time - but not stated anywhere by apple.
All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"
People seem to be deducing that the demo was showing HD quality, but it was not claimed as such I dont think.


Well it was just "sneak peak".

You are right that Apple has not specifically said anything yet, but I think it is safe to assume that if it contains a HDMI connection that it will eventually support HD.

However, iTunes is not supporting HD yet. They only mention 640x480 as the highest resolution.

[mgworek]

wireless is useless for watching movies. I use my mac now to get videos from NAS servers and wireless doesn't cut it. I need to be going 100 or else it gets choppy. Unless they release a new wireless access point.

[BillHarrison]

Which cost what, five times what this will cost? The stuff you have will never go mainstream, it's way too expensive.


Because that would be far more expensive, with little potential to get cheaper. Something based on a full computer would never get cheap enough to really catch on.

Whoa there! Setting up a media center / 360 extender setup is far from 5x the price of the iTV. As a matter of fact, the 360 is the SAME price as the iTV, 299$.

You of course will need a media center pc to make this work, but you need a pc/mac to make the iTV work as well, so thats an added expense on either side.

Oh, did I mention the 360 plays some REALLY fun games? (Dead rising :D)

Actually I could probably do both methods for around the same price, (900 ish) but with the Media Center you get true TIVO capability, all from your couch. Trust me, it works, and it works well.

That said, I applaud apple for trying, but they have a ways to go in this area. One of the things keeping me from the big switch.

[Carl Spackler]

Will it support third party codecs?
Does it have an internal flash drive?
Will I be able to order Music, TV shows and Movies using it?
Do I need a separate computer to use it?

So far, I'm not impressed. How's it different than a media extender?


I don't know why it wouldn't. Isn't iTunes basically and interface for Quicktime? I would imagine anything one can play in QT, you can play through this.

All it is is Apple's version of a media extender. I would, however, like an optical drive, but I can't see the price staying at $299 if they add Blu Ray. Otherwise, I think it's a fair price for a quality piece of equipment. Roku's SoundBridge M2000 is $299. For the same price I get to also sent 1080p content to my home theatre. Sign me up.

[bommai]

Seems to me this could be done without Apple having to open up Front Row. If Elgato added some sort of "export recording to iTunes Video Library" option (that also deletes the original file after export completes), you could have your stuff recording on your mac and ready to stream to iTV. I'd imagine you could also set up some sort of Smart Playlist in iTunes to show unwatched recordings that carries over to the iTV interface.


I have a Sony HD-DVR I use to pause live HDTV as well as record. While having a Elgato tuner hooked up to the mac and recording programs there and then streaming it to the iTV box is doable, you won't be able to pause live TV. That is the kind of integration Apple needs to bring to the table. Even if they don't want to make this iTV expensive, they should just let you record to your computer from your TV. So the hard drive could be on the computer but the tuner and program selection has to be available on iTV. Almost like VNC.

Another idea is a DVD drive on iTV. This drive should let users play normal DVD as well as iTunes movies bought DVD. The DRM can be maintained by authenicating against the store when you play. This way, normal people can burn their movie purchases to DVD or keep them in their hard drive. Their choice. They could even let iTunes move the movie to a disk to make room. For example, let us say you run out of HD space on your computer that you use to buy movies. Now you tell iTunes to move a movie to a disk. iTunes guides the user to create a DVD backup. Then it automatically makes space on the HD. However, the iTunes library keeps the information about this movie in its database so that it is available through Frontrow on the Mac itself or another device like iTV. When the user tries to play that movie, it says insert the disk. Now the user can insert the disk into iTV and voila play. This is an ideal balance between DRM, online purchases, data backup, etc.

Movie studios don't mind because the DVDs created by iTunes 7 will only play on computers or iTV for which the purchase has been authenticated.

I would assume this box is running an OS smarter than the iPod so it should not be hard to add all these features especially since it is not yet ready!

[digitalbiker]

I'd like nothing better than to be able to dump Comcast completely, but without the ability to watch live sports, it's a no-go. If they start streaming games for a couple bucks, I'd definitely take a look at it.

-- Any regular-season game from any sport = $1.99

-- Any playoff game from any sport = $2.99

-- NFL season pass (1 team, 16 games) = $30
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $20

-- NBA season pass (1 team, 60-70 games) = $50
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $30

-- MLB season pass (1 team, 130-150 games) = $70
-- add all playoff games, all teams = $30

-- Triple Play bundle (3 seasons of any sport, 1 team each, plus all playoff games) = $200

I would definitely go for that!

Dream On!

The NFL charges $199.00 for Sunday Ticket and an additonal $100.00 for HD content of only some of the games. They would never let live games be streamed for $30 for an entire season.

Think about it! Even WWF phoney wrestling commands $50.00 a pop on pay-per-view.

[Rocketman]

There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription. You just subsribe to the shows you want and al la carte other shows after that. Networks will probably even do the season premieres free to get you hooked or add sponsor the shows to make them free. TV on demand is obviously the next wave - even the cable companies know it and have on demand etc. I mean not to be racist but I'm happy to stop paying comcast for the 10+ stations that are in languages I don't even speak. I barely speak english - hahaha.

In conclusion - its the same data - just different timing.

Here is something I saw today for the first time. Cable TV to your IP address.

http://www.mobitv.com/

Low priced too for what it does.

Rocketman

[jessefoxperry]

is apple.com not loading for anyone else? it was fine before with the new content, now everything in the middle is missing. /itunes /ipod still work like they should. weird.

[Doctor Q]

Thread cross-reference: The The Offical iTV Speculation Thread by RedTomato discusses the questions of what the iTV will be able to play.

[roland.g]

It needs DVR recording for this price point. As someone else mentioned earlier, I can use a $5 cable to connect my computer to my TV. It need something else that will make me want to spend the extra $244 on it. Either that, or apple needs to stop touting the iMac as a media PC because the TV will compete with it.

maybe if it came with a calculator

[ariza910]

Wasnt Steve Jobs demo of the Incredibles movie through iTV in HD?

Since the iTV has HDMI and Component it leads me to belive that it will handle HD as well as SD content.

[dnedved]

This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.

It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.

Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.

As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.

This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.

[Peace]

This is the device I said was coming with the exception of the Hard Drive and I bet before it's released it has one.

[roland.g]

who thinks it will be 802.11g or will it be 802.11n?

will that mean that all new macs Q1 07 also come with 802.11n as well?

or will the streaming from a 802.11g mac to the iTV just be crap?

if that's the case what will everyone with a current mac do, dongle it?

Steve should have been more explicit about the 802.11 or at least assured us that 802.11g macs will stream to it just fine.

Does anyone know if 802.11g can handle streaming video at that resolution?

[ftrtrk]

why the h can't they release it yet? Jobs was using it perfectly on stage, it looks great, this is confusing.

[Peace]

who thinks it will be 802.11g or will it be 802.11n?

will that mean that all new macs Q1 07 also come with 802.11n as well?

or will the streaming from a 802.11g mac to the iTV just be crap?

if that's the case what will everyone with a current mac do, dongle it?

Steve should have been more explicit about the 802.11 or at least assured us that 802.11g macs will stream to it just fine.

Does anyone know if 802.11g can handle streaming video at that resolution?

I'd be willing to bet the new iMacs and Mac Pros will only need a firmware update.

[greenstork]

There's no need for DVR functionality. Apple will replace your cable subscription. You just subscribe to the shows you want and al la carte other shows after that. Networks will probably even do the season premieres free to get you hooked or add sponsor the shows to make them free. TV on demand is obviously the next wave - even the cable companies know it and have on demand etc. I mean not to be racist but I'm happy to stop paying comcast for the 10+ stations that are in languages I don't even speak. I barely speak english - hahaha.

In conclusion - its the same data - just different timing.

Except the quality just won't be there yet with this device. As everyone runs out to buy flat screen TVs this year and next, they're going to get home and want to play iTunes movies only to be completely dismayed by the 640x480 content/quality. 4:3 resolution, yuck :confused:

I know it's 802.11 and certainly features an HDMI out, but streaming 720p HD TV takes about 480 Mbps of bandwith, according to Ars:http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060906-7681.html Even 802.11n would have trouble with an uncompressed 720p signal, so quality will most likely be compromised as streaming video is increasingly compressed.

I'm happy to ditch Comcast's 25 shopping channels, in favor of a paid siubscription model, but I'm guessing that the cable & satellite companies are going to do HD a heck of a lot better than Apple.

And in the meantime, Apple's selection of TV shows kinda blows. There are one or two that I like that are available, and 10 shows that I love that are completely missing. Until everything I might want to watch is available, there's no way I'm ditching my cable company, and this may never happen.

Television content providers and producers are beholden to advertisers, who need a medium to peddle their wares. These advertisers hate this Apple subscription model, which I'm guessing is one of the big reasons why the iTV doesn't have any DVR capabilities.

Those companies that distribute television and movies (like Apple et al.) -- that are in bed with the content providers, don't really support/sell DVRs -- with the possible exception of the cable & satellite companies themselves, who have monopoly-like power.

I'm sure TiVo would have loved to implement a movie store years ago but the content providers hate TiVo. As cynical as it sounds, the only way you're going to get all of the technological functionality that you want is if you build it yourself or tolerate advertisements.

[gweedo]

Does anyone know if Apple will be providing some kind of developer toolkit for this "iTV" device? I sure hope so, I can think of a number of neat ways to put this device to work, not the least of which is a Tivo-like module. :cool:

All in all it sounds like a neat little unit, with an fairly good price. I'll have to buy me a XServe with some XRaid's so I can put my entire DVD library into it. ;)

[theBB]

I don't want to watch movies on my computer, so this sounds like a great product. I assume I can hook a USB drive with movies or music and download iTunes products directly to that same drive without a need for a computer. If I hook iTV to ethernet, maybe that drive can even become a file server of some sort. I can justify the cost of iTV if I can use it as a music streaming device, print server and file server. Let's see how many of these features will actually be there. :)

However, the price point for movies is wrong for me. I started using Netflix instead of going to Blockbuster, because of price and wider selection. Apple's offer is more than double the price for a movie, even without the cost of iTV unless I watch them twice or more. Apple's library is bound to be smaller for a long time to come as well. I guess instant gratification is the only saving grace. Well, considering I've never bought a TV show or music video, maybe I am not in the target audience anyways.

[roland.g]

I'd be willing to bet the new iMacs and Mac Pros will only need a firmware update.

Good to know, since I'm not waiting till Q1 to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why you think that.

[jk8311]

As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes. When I had my Mac Mini wireless and I tried using Front Row to watch movies from other computers (similar to what iTV is supposed to do) it had a real spotty connection sometimes. The consistency and reliability of a wired connection is yet to be paralleled with anything else.

[ChrisA]

As fas as wouldn't I rather pay for only the shows I watch? Sure! But Apple's current pricing is much to prohibitive. It's cheaper for me to pay $50 a month for DirecTV with the HD option than to pay $2 a pop

So you must watch more than 25 TV shows a month? Man what "time sink". At $2 a pop I'd be out maybe $6 per month. That's reasonable. What I would like to do is export from Final Cut to iTunes so I can watch it on the large screen. Currently I would have to burn a DVD and "sneaker net" the disc to the TV, watch it then re-cut, re-burn, re-sneakernet..... This should be usful to anyone who owns a video camera.

This should also help sell a lot of large RAID systems and then you will need another large storage system so "Time Machine" can automatically make those backup copies

[greenstork]

It seems that will stream HDTV content, so I have my Elgato recording my favorite show in HDTV than it streams it to my flat panel and I can control it from my couch without having to go back to my computer on the other room.
I can access the itunes store, see my photos listen my music, etc.
What else you guys want?

If the iTV streams HD content, then it's going to be heavily compressed HD content. Depending on the quality of the compression, it may look great on your flat panel and it may look just okay, we'll see.

[digitalbiker]

This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.

It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.

Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.

As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.

This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.

You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!

First off Apple still has not managed to get much video content for their iTunes store.

Second, Apple has yet to supply any HD content.

Third, one of the biggest sources for high-speed broadband in the US is cable. So Apple isn't putting any cable company out of business anytime soon.

Fourth, Content providers like ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. will not make the content available to Apple until after it has been released to cable or over the air. Otherwise they will loose significant money from advertisers for exclusive airing rights content.

In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.

[Peace]

Good to know, since I'm not waiting till Q1 to upgrade. Could you elaborate on why you think that.

Because if it is 802.11n most new Macs would have been sold between now and when the device comes out.If the "new" Macs being sold post Sept. won't have a firmware update thats going to leave a LOT of potential customers out.

Simple matter of economics..

[uefigs139]

http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

[Peace]

Engadget has posted pics :

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/apple-to-release-itv-video-streaming-box-in-2007/

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/hands-on-with-the-apple-itv-prototype/

[dnedved]

As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes.

As an IT consultant you should know about caching. The bandwidth is there, a little bit of caching and the inconsistency caused by an occasional glitch in the throughput won't even be noticed. OS X doesn't do extensive read-ahead caching over network file systems. It's arguable whether a general-purpose OS even should (You and I probably both want it to but how often do you hear other users asking for it?) But with the workload that this device will be doing it's a no-brainer that doing 64-128MB of read-ahead would be a good idea. You can bet that Apple is smart enough to think of that. Hell, if they get the downloads working over the internet connection, the delivery around the LAN is much easier -- wired or wireless. 802.11g is a MUCH fatter pipe than anybody here's internet connection I'm willing to bet.

I agree with you about the current situation. It's just a simple tweak on the client though. Right now I even have occasional glitches streaming video off my NAS over GigE but it's just the lack of caching, it's certainly not a bandwidth issue with GigE!!!

[mmmcheese]

I think they did it because iTV doesn't really threaten any existing Apple products, so people aren't likely to hold off buying something while they wait for it. It's still odd behavior from Apple, but I'm not complaining.

The other possible reason. When someone is considering buying a movie and asks "Can I play it on my TV?" Apple can say "yes...well, in a few months when product X is available." This was a big question for Amazon...and their answer was "yes, if you connect your computer to your TV" which is a really ugly answer (for consumers).

[digitalbiker]

As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes. When I had my Mac Mini wireless and I tried using Front Row to watch movies from other computers (similar to what iTV is supposed to do) it had a real spotty connection sometimes. The consistency and reliability of a wired connection is yet to be paralleled with anything else.

I agree 100%. Wireless loses to wired everytime. In addition before too long there are going to be so many 80211 type devices, and phones that soon the bandwidth will get crowded and error prone.

[BrianMojo]

This was released to make the other movie companies fold and agree to sign and give Apple their content. Why else would they allow everyone this info this early in the game? It is to make the movie industry drool and sell their stuff through iTunes.

Nail on the head, imo.

Agreed. If it can't do HD, I'll pass.

-Sean

There's no reason they would've put component outs on it if it won't (eventually) do HD.

[Outka5t]

About 18 months too late but I can't wait for it.

Apple have thought this one through well.

[gugy]

If the iTV streams HD content, then it's going to be heavily compressed HD content. Depending on the quality of the compression, it may look great on your flat panel and it may look just okay, we'll see.

Let's hope so.
I had trouble with Airtunes, so I have my fingers crossed expecting ITV will do a better job with music and videos (HDTV preferably).
If Apple can make this happen, this ITV hardware will be killer IMHO.

[milo]

Plus I'm going to have to wait 2+ hours for it to download, plus nothing extra.

You don't have to wait, if you have a fast connection you can watch while it's downloading.

So almost a year later Apple introduces a device that will play *near* (i.e. lower than) DVD-quality when the market is finally warming up to HD quality disks.

Who says it will only do DVD quality? It has HD outputs, and some of the reports said he called up the incredibles (was it the movie or the trailer?) in HD.

Right now we have an upgraded Airport extreme.

Which is exactly what I want. If you want TV tuner, just buy one, they're already available. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple ends up buying Elgato. If Apple announced a TV tuner, wouldn't people be complaining that it would put poor Elgato out of business?

I'll just use a cable to hook my laptop to my TV.
Voila! I just replaced iTV for less than $5.00.

So was your laptop free...or did you find one for under five bucks?

I bought a DVI->S-Video adapter for $15 and an S-Video cable for about $20. Guess what. I can watch TV shows and movies downloaded to my hard drive on my TV. Sooooo.... $35 vs. $300. Let me see.

As above...didn't you have to buy your computer? And isn't it a pain to have to have your computer sitting next to the TV while you're watching (all the time if it's not a laptop, drag it in if it is)? I did that for a while with my mini and got tired of it.

no one could convince us that the 640x480 would be enough for HDTV or which wireless protocol it would use.

Did they say that the iTV only did 640x480, or is that just something you assumed?

wireless is useless for watching movies. I use my mac now to get videos from NAS servers and wireless doesn't cut it. I need to be going 100 or else it gets choppy. Unless they release a new wireless access point.

You mean CURRENT wireless isn't fast enough. There's a new, faster standard on the way, which is probably part of the reason this isn't shipping yet.

[dnedved]

You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!

And the iPod is just like an overpriced walkman, nobody is going to buy it.

I can get this device + a decent sized flat panel for 600 USD. What else is out there that lets me sit on the couch with a remote in my hand and watch the video content on my NAS? Sure there's Mac mini which I was about to buy ($$$ and a full computer to maintain), Myth front-end (did I mention hassle?), a modded Xbox (not enough CPU for big h.264), and probably some ugly M$ thing, but not at this cost, and not with the hassle-free user-friendliness that Apple builds into their products. And not in a sleek little package that I can hide behind a wall-mounted LCD, wireless and silent-running to boot. I'm going to have at least 2 of these, I don't want a full-function computer to maintain in each room I want to watch video, I want an appliance.

In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.

I already did over a year ago in anticipation of this device, and don't miss it. I've got my NAS filling up right now. Sure I may "watch TV" on my 17" PB for now, but only because this device isn't out yet. I'm glad I waited and didn't get the mini.

If you don't get it, then you just don't get and I can't make you understand. I can't make it any clearer for you. The world just changed. All assuming they actually release this product that is!

[Object-X]

I really don't understand all the comments about why doesn't it have a DVD player, or it doesn't have Tivo capabilities, ect. I really think you all are missing the point: it is designed to eventually replace all those technologies. OK, it doesnt' do it yet, but Jobs said something very important at the end of the keynote, and that was "you can see the direction we are heading".

The whole concept here is to make DVD players, recorders, rentals, and even channel viewing irrelevant. You will purchase, subscribe, rent?, and control all media content on your computer and simply stream it to an HDTV.

Does it support HDTV resolutions? Not yet, but I'm sure it will. Remember, iTV is a direction, not the end of the road.

So, the complaints are more or less becaues we are impatient and want it all now. This is just a start. If done right, this concept of computer, iTunes Store, and iTV could replace cable and satellite TV service. Why screw around trying to record shows, edit commercials, ect. when you can just get and control your content easily and simply with your computer?

I like this whole idea. I can see cable news channels offering their content via TVcasts that you can subscribe too, and other network channels offering their media libraries for download or even rental; and the iTunes Store will basically act as the purchasing hub. Want Monday nights football game? Just subscribe to it on iTunes and it will download automatically and you can watch it whenever. Who needs Tivo? Don't need 200 channels of crap? Just download the stuff you want to watch and have your own media library. Who needs cable and commercials?

[Peace]

soooo.....milo....:)

Looks like the only thing I had wrong was the hard drive eh? ;)

But it looks like a little of what we were both talking about..

We'll call it even eh? :)

[HiRez]

Dream On!

The NFL charges $199.00 for Sunday Ticket and an additonal $100.00 for HD content of only some of the games. They would never let live games be streamed for $30 for an entire season.Yeah, but that's for every NFL game, right? I'm just talking about the games for a single team, 16 total games throughout the season. I agree with you, $30 is probably too low but still, it should be a lot less than Sunday Ticket. Wouldn't they rather get most of that money directly (with a small cut to Apple) rather than getting a tiny sliver from Comcast (where it's part of the extended cable package and not charged for separately)?

[milo]

Whoa there! Setting up a media center / 360 extender setup is far from 5x the price of the iTV. As a matter of fact, the 360 is the SAME price as the iTV, 299$.

You of course will need a media center pc to make this work, but you need a pc/mac to make the iTV work as well, so thats an added expense on either side.

Does the PC have to be next to the xbox, or is there a way to transfer (hopefully stream) video wirelessly? And if you're using a PC for this, does it tie up the PC or can you use it for other things?

I have a Sony HD-DVR I use to pause live HDTV as well as record. While having a Elgato tuner hooked up to the mac and recording programs there and then streaming it to the iTV box is doable, you won't be able to pause live TV. That is the kind of integration Apple needs to bring to the table.

What makes you think that wouldn't be possible? Elgato does allow pausing live TV, don't they? I don't see why that couldn't be passed on through the iTV.

Except the quality just won't be there yet with this device. As everyone runs out to buy flat screen TVs this year and next, they're going to get home and want to play iTunes movies only to be completely dismayed by the 640x480 content/quality. 4:3 resolution, yuck :confused:

I know it's 802.11 and certainly features an HDMI out, but streaming 720p HD TV takes about 480 Mbps of bandwith, according to Ars:http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060906-7681.html Even 802.11n would have trouble with an uncompressed 720p signal, so quality will most likely be compromised as streaming video is increasingly compressed.

There's no reason to use uncompressed HD, all consumer HD formats are compressed and quality can still be very good. Broadcast HDTV only uses about 20Mb, easily handled by .n. And I doubt many people will be "dismayed" by iTunes quality. Right now, isn't HDTV usage way ahead of HD dvd usage? So aren't most people already watching "dvd quality" on their HDTV's?

As an IT consultant, I recommend for anyone who's thinking of using an Airport Express for audio or a Mac Mini for a living room computer (or now this new iTV that will come out next year) to just spend the money on getting a wired connection. Ultimately, wireless will not be at the quality it needs to be to handle this throughput CONSISTENTLY. I still get skips on my Airpot Express when streaming from iTunes.

You're using the .g wireless standard, there's a .n standard on the way which is considerably faster. Looks like the new one is what apple will use.

[EagerDragon]

I would be interested if it had PVR capabilities, a tuner, a hard disk, 2 firewire ports, and a CableCARD so I can get rid of the cable box. While it is nice as is it does not offer all it could.

Then again some of you would love it.
ZZZZZZZZZ

[beaster]

Nail on the head, imo.



There's no reason they would've put component outs on it if it won't (eventually) do HD.

I don't doubt the device will be capable of outputting HD resolution. But they still have 2 big problems to solve before they have me as a customer - bandwidth of the wireless network and content. Maybe they can solve (have solved?) the wireless bandwidth problem with a new wireless protocol or some really slick new compression technology - I sure hope so. But then they need HD content. Maybe that'll be a Blu-ray drive in the Mac. But HD downloads for feature-length movies? That's a lot of bits to move and store somewhere - will fill up a typical hard drive in no time. So you need a way to archive those movies - writeable Blu-ray maybe, or more hard drive space. My point is that there's still some kinks to work out to deliver HD content through this device to a TV. Until those problems are solved, I'll pass.

-Sean

[timswim78]

Ughh, I really hope that Apple upates this product before releasing it for sale.
Come one Apple, what about the:
- TV recording
- DVD player
- Built In Storage (Hard Drive)
- Input for digital cable

Some analogies:
- It's like an wireless XBOX 360, except it doesn't play games or DVD's.
- It's like a networked DVD player, without the DVD player.

I'd rather spend $300 on almost ANY OTHER electronics product.

What a disappointment... I guess Apple is just trying to stave off the competition from the media capabilities of Windows Media Center and XBOX.

[janstett]

Ah, now this is what I've been waiting for: the Airport Express for video, plus a little bit more. If it were shipping today, I'd high-tail it to the Apple Store and buy one. But given a few months to think about the $299 price tag, we shall see if that feeling holds up.

These types of devices have existed for years (UPnP Digital Media Adapters). I wonder if this will be UPnP compatible, probably not -- Rendevous pretty much a UPnP alternative.

[iamacat]

This was the product I was really waiting for. It's cool, but I'm disappointed it doesn't have a DVD player and it looks like it probably won't work with EyeTV.

FrontRow already has a DVD player accessible through remote control - just put the DVD into the Mac. I also pretty sure EyeTV videos can be already made to appear in FR menus. If you really need hardware right next to TV, by all means get a Mac Mini and an EyeTV HD. Still comes out cheaper than a new Tivo (look ma, no subscriptions!)

[DavidCar]

So what is this thing, anyway? Is it a MacMini with a Merom chip and a different set of I/O ports running a special version of OSX? Can I plug an ElGato Hybrid into the USB port, download some ElGato software to it, and use it to watch TV? Can I telnet into it? I've seen no indication if it does or does not have a hard drive.

[wpwj40e]

ABout the only real use I saw for thi sdevice was for the stuff Ihave recorded form elgato 500. Sinc eit dumps it into my itunes library - theoretically I should be able to access it. However, 5 gig files streaming are simply not pretty - and I do not want 640 * 480 on my HDTV.

WHile I "get" the direction of this product - I am not sure where its marketing position is at. Most can easily buy an upconverting DVD player for around $50-60 - connect to their TV and buy tons of movies (and own them) at 10-15.

Much higher resolution - no streaming issues...in fact for the average user this is a MUCH easier solution than downloading a movie - figuring out how to enable their various "apple" wireless devices to talk, connecting this box to the TV and dealing with any streaming hiccups....And they also get a much higher resolution - filling up their whole widescreen. Most users already complain about the black bars across the top and bottom - can you hear it when the entire "dvd download" is letterboxed?

I really wanted to like today's announcmeents - and now am just confused.

[Peace]

To help quell confusion this device WILL be 802.11n

There will be no problem streaming DVD quality or even 720P

[greenstork]

This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.

It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.

Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.

As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.

This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.

While it may be what you think it is some day, it sure ain't today. Dream on...

[carfac]

I do not see the point... What does this do that anyone could possiblky need???

300 bones for a glorified wi-fi widget is way off base. It is going to have a LOT more added to be worth that. Of course, we are talking about Apple, so overcharge is the rule, not the exception.

For my money, it's gonna have to be a REAL media center, and there is no way THAT ios gonna happen for 3 bills. Tivo today announced a HD-PVR for 8- that price range is acceptible, but it's gonna have to be HD, PVR, tunner, alkl that stuff. This box, worthless to me.

[damienvfx]

and this was a smart move on Steve's part. He is trying to garner support for his movie download service, just like a producer would try and hedge his/her film to a few different production companies.

Makes people more excited about the possibilities ahead. Which in tun production companies will want to jump on the bandwagon and reap some of the benefits.

The preview wasn't for you and me per se. It was for Universal, Paramount, MGM, & Fox to see just how interested the market is in such a peripheral. Steve's got their attention now.

[sam10685]

I'm really impressed with the price. Obviously they're not gonna talk about all the features this early, but so far it looks good. Will it record TV? I guess "no."

i have an extremely good feeling it will. i also have an extremely good feeling that they will launch this thing prior to christmas for two reasons... Why would they anounce something this cool in september and not release it by christmas? also, Apple has a history of doing weird stuff like releasing stuff early. "yeah... we're going to start this Intel transition in 6 months." *4 months later, Intel transition starts.*

[digitalbiker]

Yeah, but that's for every NFL game, right? I'm just talking about the games for a single team, 16 total games throughout the season. I agree with you, $30 is probably too low but still, it should be a lot less than Sunday Ticket. Wouldn't they rather get most of that money directly (with a small cut to Apple) rather than getting a tiny sliver from Comcast (where it's part of the extended cable package and not charged for separately)?

Sunday Ticket is exclusive to Directv and I read where Directv only takes 5% of the profit from this package. The NFL receives the reaming 95%.

[carfac]

>>> Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans.

Those that think this is a Tivo Killer don't understand economics, or why people buy Tivos.

Fort this to even be in the BALLPARK, it needs a Hard Dive. Needs to be Hi Def. That ain't happening at a 299.99 price tag. Still, people love the Tivo interface, so to get them, it's gonna have to offer MORE than Tivo- like an optical drive, a couple tuners. No WAY that is in this box and "not discolsed yet" at 299.

Tivo Killer. That's a killer joke, or Appleboy dreaming. Not close to reality.

[Gosh]

Hi All, Hi Al!

I'm feeling a bit thick maybe on this but how does iTV differ from EyeHome?

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome:confused:

[ITR 81]

Now see its a step in the right direction to be sure. There will be features announced which will make it more attractive

But unless they add the ability to attach a hard drive or something to hold content on then this isn't going to sell at all.

You probably forget that iTunes TV shows are not available nowhere else in the world except the US. Neither are the films for the time being. so what do we have to watch in the rest of the world? Nada!

I really want this to be better for launch. Lets see what happens eh?


Next yr is suppose to be all International titles and movies.
And I'm sure the UK will be one of the first to get them.

Well if you look at the image of the iTv it looks all concept looking.
So I would say it probably does have a HD or a CF drive. Other wise I can't see them running Front Row on the damn thing without it.

My idea is Apple releases a sys with most all media centres including a small HD. Next Apple can release add on's...like 100-200GB extra HD or a Blue Ray drive that connect via a FW800 port...or something similar.

[sintaxi]

Is it just me or does the iTV look very stackable? My guess is that eventually you will have a Hard Drive, Optical Drive and the iTV all separate. This way you can upgrade to a BlueRay from a DVD drive or a 500Gig HD from a 250.

Do you think Im way off?

[greenstork]

I really don't understand all the comments about why doesn't it have a DVD player, or it doesn't have Tivo capabilities, ect. I really think you all are missing the point: it is designed to eventually replace all those technologies. OK, it doesnt' do it yet, but Jobs said something very important at the end of the keynote, and that was "you can see the direction we are heading".

The whole concept here is to make DVD players, recorders, rentals, and even channel viewing irrelevant. You will purchase, subscribe, rent?, and control all media content on your computer and simply stream it to an HDTV.

Does it support HDTV resolutions? Not yet, but I'm sure it will. Remember, iTV is a direction, not the end of the road.

So, the complaints are more or less becaues we are impatient and want it all now. This is just a start. If done right, this concept of computer, iTunes Store, and iTV could replace cable and satellite TV service. Why screw around trying to record shows, edit commercials, ect. when you can just get and control your content easily and simply with your computer?

I like this whole idea. I can see cable news channels offering their content via TVcasts that you can subscribe too, and other network channels offering their media libraries for download or even rental; and the iTunes Store will basically act as the purchasing hub. Want Monday nights football game? Just subscribe to it on iTunes and it will download automatically and you can watch it whenever. Who needs Tivo? Don't need 200 channels of crap? Just download the stuff you want to watch and have your own media library. Who needs cable and commercials?

You do realize that we live in a capitalist culture right, one of the greatest consumerist cultures to have ever existed on this planet. Do you honestly believe that purchased content, free of commercials, is going to work? It was all fine and dandy when it was Apple stopping file sharing but when it's Apple honing in on the terrain of a multi-billion dollar advertising system, they're going to face significantly more resistance. And that's why cable and satellite television aren't going away anytime soon. Either that, or you can expect to see commerials coming to your iTunes downloads in the future.

[greenstork]

>>> Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans.

Those that think this is a Tivo Killer don't understand economics, or why people buy Tivos.

Fort this to even be in the BALLPARK, it needs a Hard Dive. Needs to be Hi Def. That ain't happening at a 299.99 price tag. Still, people love the Tivo interface, so to get them, it's gonna have to offer MORE than Tivo- like an optical drive, a couple tuners. No WAY that is in this box and "not discolsed yet" at 299.

Tivo Killer. That's a killer joke, or Appleboy dreaming. Not close to reality.

Bingo, and the only people claiming that it's a Tivo killer have probably never owned a Tivo.

[myamid]

An interesting device it sounds like the El Gato EyeHome. As long as it can play all normal video/audio formats (whatever you have QuickTime components for) and it has support for El Gato EyeTV I'll happily replace my XP MCE box with one.

I actually have an EyeHome and if you ask me, the iTV is pretty much the same thing... There are only small obvious differences
-Wifi & HDMI on iTV
-Ability to stream Fairplay protected content...

Probably not enough for me to dump my EyeHome...

[dante@sisna.com]

>>> Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans.

Those that think this is a Tivo Killer don't understand economics, or why people buy Tivos.

Fort this to even be in the BALLPARK, it needs a Hard Dive. Needs to be Hi Def. That ain't happening at a 299.99 price tag. Still, people love the Tivo interface, so to get them, it's gonna have to offer MORE than Tivo- like an optical drive, a couple tuners. No WAY that is in this box and "not discolsed yet" at 299.

Tivo Killer. That's a killer joke, or Appleboy dreaming. Not close to reality.

You have got this all wrong.

The iTV is a winner for these reasons:
1) It does stream HD content -- Just because the iTunes content is NOT HD (it is near DVD) does not mean the DEVICE is not capable. In fact it uses the HDMI connector (as well as S and componet video) and the built in wireless AND gigabit ethernet insure the bandwidth is there for future HD content.

2) The iTV defeats TIVO in NOT NEEDING a Hard Drive. The PC or MAC Desktop BECOMES the Media Server.

3) Tuners: Numerous Third Solutions (elgato for example) exist right now to capture High Def video to the Mac and PC -- the stream is pauseable.

4) HD DVD -- With Blue Ray forthcoming, the Mac can still add DVD content to iTunes and then stream to iTV.

5) Multiple Streams/Multiple TVs -- iTV beats Tivo in that you can use multiple iTV's connected to a powerful desktop to service multiple monitors using the Front Row Interface.

6) The platform to expand: Apple's resources are superior to Tivo's and they will evolve beyond Tivo in the coming 2 years.

For a superior discussion of all these points visit CNET News:

http://news.com.com/2100-1041-6114835.html?tag=tb

DJO

[Peace]

Hi All, Hi Al!

I'm feeling a bit thick maybe on this but how does iTV differ from EyeHome?

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome:confused:

The Eye Home does not have Component and HDMI inputs.

Wireless isn't built in.

It's not an Apple product that will work better with Front Row than Eye Home will.

[supermacdesign]

I am dying to see what this thing looks like. Does anyone have an image of it?


Please?!

[myamid]

I have seen this stated a few time - but not stated anywhere by apple.
All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"
People seem to be deducing that the demo was showing HD quality, but it was not claimed as such I dont think.
Have to wonder if that will be available over the wireless connection as well or maybe just if you hard wire through the ethernet port.
I think there would have been something specific stated if iTV was going to allow streaming of HD video.

Drew
Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).

[Peace]

I am dying to see what this thing looks like. Does anyone have an image of it?


Please?!

look on the previous pages.I posted links
or go to engadget.com

[dante@sisna.com]

You do realize that we live in a capitalist culture right, one of the greatest consumerist cultures to have ever existed on this planet. Do you honestly believe that purchased content, free of commercials, is going to work? It was all fine and dandy when it was Apple stopping file sharing but when it's Apple honing in on the terrain of a multi-billion dollar advertising system, they're going to face significantly more resistance. And that's why cable and satellite television aren't going away anytime soon. Either that, or you can expect to see commerials coming to your iTunes downloads in the future.

Actually as a media advertising agency owner I can tell you that you've got it backwards. Cable and Satellite are all planning to go to a totally on-demand solution much like iTunes. Commercials and advertising will evolve, through viral marketing and embedded content, as it always has. The days of linear programming cut up with ads are nearing their end.

[Peace]

Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).

If it did support HD??

thats kinda stupid considering it has HDMI and component connectors.

[nacnud]

This iTV seems like a very interesting device, first off it appears to be a HD wireless media streaming box like the Hauppauge Media MVP but hopefuly with a nicer UI.

However another thing also jumps out, if can you add an ipod via the USB or even an external hard drive then this could give consumers access to the iTunes Store without a computer. That has got to be worth a lot in terms of possible revenue and growing the market rather than just the market share.

[myamid]

The Eye Home does not have Component and HDMI inputs.

Wireless isn't built in.

It's not an Apple product that will work better with Front Row than Eye Home will.

Not completely accurate... EyeHome has component out - with a pretty decent 1080i Software Upconvert over Component to an HDTV set...

[HecubusPro]

I am dying to see what this thing looks like. Does anyone have an image of it?


Please?!

http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/img3679.jpg

[Peace]

Not completely accurate... EyeHome has component out - with a pretty decent 1080i Software Upconvert over Component to an HDTV set...

I may be wrong but it has "composite out" not "component"

[aristobrat]

You mean CURRENT wireless isn't fast enough. There's a new, faster standard on the way, which is probably part of the reason this isn't shipping yet.
That's what I thought when I saw that they weren't specific about WiFi ... simply calling it "802.11 wireless networking" instead of specifically stating it was "802.11 A/B/G".

[dante@sisna.com]

Ughh, I really hope that Apple upates this product before releasing it for sale.
Come one Apple, what about the:
- TV recording
- DVD player
- Built In Storage (Hard Drive)
- Input for digital cable

Some analogies:
- It's like an wireless XBOX 360, except it doesn't play games or DVD's.
- It's like a networked DVD player, without the DVD player.

I'd rather spend $300 on almost ANY OTHER electronics product.

What a disappointment... I guess Apple is just trying to stave off the competition from the media capabilities of Windows Media Center and XBOX.

I could not disagree more.

It exceeds the xBox 360 due to the inclusion of HDMI.
It will play DVD's, for sure, through the desktop server
It uses the superior FrontRow navigation system
It has a cleaner appearance than xbox, no power brick, runs quieter and cooler
Will not crash like the hot running xBox.
Will be prices slightly cheaper allowing for inclusion on multiple TV's throughout the home
It does not play games will work in Apple's favor as many parents don't want this feature for their children.

Digital Cable and TV recording to Hard Disk are handled by the Media SERVER (desktop) using cheap and currently available 3rd party products -- watch for apple to bundle this in the coming year and one half.

iTV is a winner for sure.

[myamid]

If it did support HD??

thats kinda stupid considering it has HDMI and component connectors.
Well I had an old Toshiba TV with component in and it sure as hell wasn't an HDTV set... So component and HDTV are NOT interdependant...

The HDMI on the other hand is a good point, but it can still be used for SDTV so it's no a proof in itself (although I'll admit, it's certainly possible). My guess is that it's more an insurance policy for the future if Apple needs to protect the content from being "ripped"...

[legacyb4]

Hate to say it, but I agree... I've got an old P4/2.8 running MCE2005 with a TV tuner and while not outputting the highest quality video, it's fulfilling the role of what I want in my living room; namely, a digital recording device for TV content that can also play back DVDs and downloaded content. It'd be a plus if I actually used the computer but I'm a Mac man suffering the Windows solution for something that Apple hasn't fully provided me yet...

When this thing surpasses the capabilities of my Windows media center and Xbox 360 combo then I will be impressed. Until then Apple is playing catch up to MCE and playing it poorly.

[slffl]

Isn't it was everyone was expecting? Looks like an Airport Express in a different form factor to accomodate all of the different ports. Basically gives you the ability to stream your videos from your computer.

[beaster]

Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).

If you cant see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV then you need a better TV or a better HD source. Also, 99% of the planet would be hard pressed to see much of a difference between 1080i and 720p, all else equal. Both have almost the idential # of pixels displayed per second. 720p is usually considered superior for fast-moving video, like sports (which is why ESPN, ABC, and FOX standardized on it). 1080i might have the edge on talk shows/news/etc. Now you may in fact be seeing a difference on your setup due to your particular display and/or source content, but in an apples to apples comparison, 720p and 1080i are neck and neck.

-Sean

[myamid]

I may be wrong but it has "composite out" not "component"

No really, it has composite, S-Video & Component out... I swear :)

[greenstork]

Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).

Just because you can't see the difference between 480p and 720p doesn't mean that other people can't. I think this distinction is like night and day, but quality is subjective, I'll give you that.

[macnvrbck]

http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/img3679.jpg

Anyone got a screenshot from the keynote?

[Kid Red]

Wow, a TON OF YOU totally miss the iTV purpose, to stream content FROM YOUR MAC! That's why no tuner, no storage, no anything!! Does Airport Express have storage, an antenna, etc?!? NO!!!

I love this! I want one today! I'm going to get a huge HD, maybe two of them and start my stored media collection on my G5 that I can wirelessly access in my HT room from the iTV's wireless remote!! I love it!! Music, Family photos in a slide show, eyegato to record HD programs!! Awesome!!!

This so rocks and will make a ton of money for Apple! I can't wait, this is truly what I've been looking for as there's no HDMI out on my G5!!

[roland.g]

That's what I thought when I saw that they weren't specific about WiFi ... simply calling it "802.11 wireless networking" instead of specifically stating it was "802.11 A/B/G".

but that brings up the point of what's sending to it. Doesn't matter that it has new tech to recieve at higher bandwidth if the computer streaming to it only sends out at 802.11g.

[greenstork]

Actually as a media advertising agency owner I can tell you that you've got it backwards. Cable and Satellite are all planning to go to a totally on-demand solution much like iTunes. Commercials and advertising will evolve, through viral marketing and embedded content, as it always has. The days of linear programming cut up with ads are nearing their end.

I can see where you're coming from regarding linear programming. However, commercials aren't going away and any effort to subvert advertising will be met with strong resistance from the content providers.

[d-fi]

I think a lot of people are overlooking what "iTV" does.

It's not a standalone component device that connects to your computer. It's an extension OF your computer.

Ughh, I really hope that Apple upates this product before releasing it for sale.
Come one Apple, what about the:
- TV recording

well you got me there it would be nice if it was a tivo as well but thats not really in apples interest

- DVD player

My mac has a DVD player so that means my tv would as well (and 99% of people already have a component DVD player for their tv) not something i want to pay for if i already have one

- Built In Storage (Hard Drive)

My mac has lots of Hard Drive space and i can add more if i need it. With iTV i can send anything to the TV that quicktime can play (i assume). Again since my computer already has lots of storage i don't want to pay for more and if i did need more space i would rather add space to my computer then to a set top box.

- Input for digital cable

well again it would be nice if it was a set top box as well but thats not really in apples interest so probably not going to happen.

Some analogies:
- It's like an wireless XBOX 360, except it doesn't play games or DVD's.
- It's like a networked DVD player, without the DVD player.

well I'm guessing that the iTV would have a remote (otherwise it will suck) so for DVD's if the DVD is in your mac press play on remote and it goes, that easy. maybe a slight annoyance if your computer is in another room but not hard. But i must point out again that 99% of people have a DVD player, the goal of iTV is to move away from conventional media.

This is slightly off topic but i would much rather pay for a (blue ray/HD-DVD) burner for my computer then a component unit for my tv as i would get much more use out of my (blue ray/HD-DVD) burner with "iTV" then i would ever get out of a component unit plus save me a few $$ by not having to buy both types of units

I'd rather spend $300 on almost ANY OTHER electronics product.

What a disappointment... I guess Apple is just trying to stave off the competition from the media capabilities of Windows Media Center and XBOX.

i guess were on different pages here but i think this unit is an excellent extension of my computer. i will admit i don't really care about recording aspect of the unit because i just download programs if i miss them. Thats the main reason why i would love to stream them to my tv with out moving my computer so i can enjoy all my programs in my living room.

I'm very interested in this unit and i KNOW I'm not alone

(BTW timswim78 just using your post to hi-light my point of view nothing personal :) )

[dante@sisna.com]

Except the quality just won't be there yet with this device. As everyone runs out to buy flat screen TVs this year and next, they're going to get home and want to play iTunes movies only to be completely dismayed by the 640x480 content/quality. 4:3 resolution, yuck :confused:

I know it's 802.11 and certainly features an HDMI out, but streaming 720p HD TV takes about 480 Mbps of bandwith, according to Ars:http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060906-7681.html Even 802.11n would have trouble with an uncompressed 720p signal, so quality will most likely be compromised as streaming video is increasingly compressed.

I'm happy to ditch Comcast's 25 shopping channels, in favor of a paid siubscription model, but I'm guessing that the cable & satellite companies are going to do HD a heck of a lot better than Apple.



Actually, HDMI allows the display (TV, monitor,etc) to decrypt and decode the HD content at full resolution. That means the content is still encrypted even after leaving a PC, iTV, etc. so you can't copy it.

Without HDMI, signals are reduced to Standard Def. For copy-protection reasons, HD signals never leave any compliant device - players and monitors alike - meaning no key, no HD.

So, without HDMI, even HD-DVD discs on an xbox, for example, will only look as good as DVDs because the hardware is programmed to reduce the resolution to SD.

I think Apple will have a wireless solution out to handle the streaming content: if not, that is what Gigabit ethernet is for on the device. Home Theatre enthusiasts will gladly string cat 5 cable for this: most homes in the past 8 years are wired for this anyway.

[myamid]

Just because you can't see the difference between 480p and 720p doesn't mean that other people can't. I think this distinction is like night and day, but quality is subjective, I'll give you that.

Ok, I didn't see I didn't see it... but It's not enough to warrant 4GB extra download for a iTunes purchase... Let's put it that way :)

I'd take VERY good 480p versus mediocre 720p any day.
I apply that standard even today for HD DVD / BluRay... Movies in those 2 formats right now DO NOT warrant the extra expenditure... HD sure... on paper, but in practice, it's still not all it's cracked up to be.

On a sidenote, don't get me wrong, I can barely stand watching SD channels on TV these days... You get used to HD really quick... But I don't think the download/streaming market is "right" for HD content...

[lukewho]

I have no need for a separate tv; would like to just use my cinema display or iMac's screen...I am generally fine just sticking with DVDs and the occassional iTunes TV episode impulse-buy when I have some TV-jones. But I would occassionally like to watch me some live television - without having to make room for a separate TVbox in my cramped studio apartment. This new iTV box does nothing to fix this gap in technology, right? Basically, It puts my computer's media onto the TV, but not TV media onto my computer. I have heard about possibility of tuner cards, but don't know much about them. So, without having to pay-per-episode or per movie from the iTunes store what are some suggestions?

[dante@sisna.com]

I can see where you're coming from regarding linear programming. However, commercials aren't going away and any effort to subvert advertising will be met with strong resistance from the content providers.

It is not subverted -- it is evolved. My clients -- the content providers and advertisers -- demand viral marketing efforts -- they are ahead of the curve: they want what works, they want the uTube factor, not yesterday's in your face ads.

[HecubusPro]

Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).

This was the selling point for me--HD downloads. So far what I know about this machine, I'm sold. I will gladly download 9GB files. Since I download various large files regularly anyway, this isn't a killer for me.

The HDD space worries me a little. I'm betting they'll offer different versions with $299 being the entry level model with the smallest hard drive. More space will come on higher priced sets. But the harddisk size is something I'm a little concerned about. Does anyone know if it was mentioned wether movies bought can be transfered to another harddrive for safekeeping, or something along those lines?

EDIT: Ahhh... so no harddrive? It just streams content you've downloaded on your computer? That's even more awesome! :)

Personally, I notice a huge difference between DVD and regular TV. Of course, that's also dependent upon the quality of the HD transfer. Often, HDNET movies are just quick and dirty HD transfers of old movies so they don't look as nice as say an HD NFL broadcast for example. A few weeks ago, some friends were over and we were watching 2001 on HDNET movies, and they were expressing that it looked nice, but not that great (IMO, it looked amazing. I'd never seen it look that good.) Anyway, I went and got my DVD of 2001, put it in the player, cued it up to about the point in the movie where the HDNET version was at, and then I switched between the two. Everyone's jaw dropped at the difference in quality. I was even surprised a little at the disparity between the two.

But, my fiance' is one of those who doesn't really notice that much of a difference, just like a lot of people. Regular broadcast or DVD and HD aren't like night and day. They're more like a nice day and a rainy day, if you catch my analogy.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I'm really excited about this set top HD box. :)

[dante@sisna.com]

Wow, a TON OF YOU totally miss the iTV purpose, to stream content FROM YOUR MAC! That's why no tuner, no storage, no anything!! Does Airport Express have storage, an antenna, etc?!? NO!!!

I love this! I want one today! I'm going to get a huge HD, maybe two of them and start my stored media collection on my G5 that I can wirelessly access in my HT room from the iTV's wireless remote!! I love it!! Music, Family photos in a slide show, eyegato to record HD programs!! Awesome!!!

This so rocks and will make a ton of money for Apple! I can't wait, this is truly what I've been looking for as there's no HDMI out on my G5!!


Exactly. Bingo. You've got the vision.

[Patch^]

I Can't see Apple adding a DVR (TV recorder) because they want you to buy TV shows, Movies and Music off iTunes not off the TV! lol. If they did, people would probably stop buying content off iTunes.

In the future I'm sure we will see more HD Content on the iTunes store and some other features :) i.e. When broadband speeds increase a bit more (HD content is huge! Ever tried watching a HD Trailer? lol)

Also I hope they change the code-name from iTv to something else because there is a Television network in the UK called ITV :O...could get confusing and possible lawsuits.

(sorry if all of this has been mentioned already)

[HecubusPro]

Anyone got a screenshot from the keynote?

What do you mean? That's a picture from the keynote this morning posted by one of the Gizmodo guys who was there.

[myamid]

The HDD space worries me a little. I'm betting they'll offer different versions with $299 being the entry level model with the smallest hard drive. More space will come on higher priced sets. But the harddisk size is something I'm a little concerned about. Does anyone know if it was mentioned wether movies bought can be transfered to another harddrive for safekeeping, or something along those lines?


I don't think the box will have local storage per-se. - it isn't advertised (yet) as a DVR. It's more like the Elgato EyeHome as it streams content stored on your computer. So the HD issue will be on the computer.

[Kid Red]

Honestly though, who would want to stream HD??
1st, if the iTV did support HD, apple would "probably" have to sell HD content - and like hell I'm downloading a 9GB movie!!

2nd, HardDisk space disappears fast enough as it is...!

3rd, Why??? I have an HDTV and I barely see the difference between DVDs and 720p HDTV... (1080i is another matter).


What!! HAHA, do you know your TV is downrezzing to 720? So, how does 1080i look better than 720? You can see the difference between downrezzed to 720p-1080i and 720p, but you can't see a difference between HD and a 480p DVD?!!

Either you need a new HD set, or a new HD provider. There is simply no comparison, really. HD is night and day, leaps and bounds better than DVD.

Apple's iTV would NEVER do HD, it simply is a chain between your HD tv and your mac that DOES do HD. Your computer is the player, so yes, I'd suspect I could record HD off my g5, and stream it to my HD set.

Can't wait!!!

[ChrisA]

So what is this thing, anyway? .... I've seen no indication if it does or does not have a hard drive.

Who cares if it has a hard drive if you hve at least one other computer on your network you can "share" a folder and then the iTV will act as if it does have a hard drive..

My guess.. iTV is a mini with no optical drive, a very small hard drive (to store the software and hold a small local cache) and an Intel video chip that can do HD formats

I can envision a third party device that has the same form factor as the iTV so it could stack on or under it. This gadget would have a cable TV tunner and digitizer and connect to the iTV via USB. This way cable TV shows could be saved automatically to your iTunes library where they would show up in the Front Row menu. I doubt Apple would offer this but I'll bet someoe else will.

Is the Ethernet port 100BaseT or Gigabit? How many iTVs can you have on one network. Can a Mac Pro stream 2, 10 or 20 video streams. I can see this used in an educational setting. A school could keep large numbers of recored lectures on a server. Students could water on big screens, thier PC/Mac or on an iPod. There are uses for this other than to feed the typical brain dead TV zombie

[greenstork]

On a sidenote, don't get me wrong, I can barely stand watching SD channels on TV these days... You get used to HD really quick... But I don't think the download/streaming market is "right" for HD content...

I happen to agree with you and that's why I think that Apple is going to steal any thunder from HD DVRs anytime soon. It will be a few years before we are downloading HD content, bandwith has to catch up a bit.

[gugy]

Wow, a TON OF YOU totally miss the iTV purpose, to stream content FROM YOUR MAC! That's why no tuner, no storage, no anything!! Does Airport Express have storage, an antenna, etc?!? NO!!!

I love this! I want one today! I'm going to get a huge HD, maybe two of them and start my stored media collection on my G5 that I can wirelessly access in my HT room from the iTV's wireless remote!! I love it!! Music, Family photos in a slide show, eyegato to record HD programs!! Awesome!!!

This so rocks and will make a ton of money for Apple! I can't wait, this is truly what I've been looking for as there's no HDMI out on my G5!!


Thank you!
Finally. Most people are not getting it.
The only thing keeps me from screaming of excitement is IF the wireless stream will be perfect. If Apple can make it work, I'll do exactly what you have described above. Elgato will be my next purchase at the same time I buy ITV.

[legacyb4]

So based on what was shown today, the iTV itself is not presenting itself as a recording solution, only playback.

If that is the case, then it still misses the mark because you cannot do the one thing that a PVR can do easily which is to pick up the remote and click record without getting out of your chair (assuming your Mac is in a different room than the TV).

You have got this all wrong.

The iTV is a winner for these reasons:

3) Tuners: Numerous Third Solutions (elgato for example) exist right now to capture High Def video to the Mac and PC -- the stream is pauseable.

DJO

[myamid]

What!! HAHA, do you know your TV is downrezzing to 720? So, how does 1080i look better than 720? You can see the difference between downrezzed to 720p-1080i and 720p, but you can't see a difference between HD and a 480p DVD?!!

Either you need a new HD set, or a new HD provider. There is simply no comparison, really. HD is night and day, leaps and bounds better than DVD.

Apple's iTV would NEVER do HD, it simply is a chain between your HD tv and your mac that DOES do HD. Your computer is the player, so yes, I'd suspect I could record HD off my g5, and stream it to my HD set.

Can't wait!!!
My TV is actually 1080i native... upconverting 720p, not the other way around...

[ArcaneDevice]

Without HDMI, signals are reduced to Standard Def. For copy-protection reasons, HD signals never leave any compliant device - players and monitors alike - meaning no key, no HD.

So, without HDMI, even HD-DVD discs on an xbox, for example, will only look as good as DVDs because the hardware is programmed to reduce the resolution to SD.

HDMI has nothing to do with the down res of an image. The Image Constraint Token dictates whether HD will be transmitted over analog channels like component. The ICT has not been implemented by any studio and they have stated it is not likely to be in the near future.

HDMI sends the signals and confirms the device on either end is compliant device. How the HDCP handles the situation is up to the studios and manufacturers.

[greenstork]

It is not subverted -- it is evolved. My clients -- the content providers and advertisers -- demand viral marketing efforts -- they are ahead of the curve: they want what works, they want the uTube factor, not yesterday's in your face ads.

Your clients represent the extreme minority of advertising content today. While that is changing, I concede, most advertisers are still in the old paradigm.

[beaster]

Just because you can't see the difference between 480p and 720p doesn't mean that other people can't. I think this distinction is like night and day, but quality is subjective, I'll give you that.

DVD = 480i, not 480p.

-Sean

[dante@sisna.com]

So based on what was shown today, the iTV itself is not presenting itself as a recording solution, only playback.

If that is the case, then it still misses the mark because you cannot do the one thing that a PVR can do easily which is to pick up the remote and click record without getting out of your chair (assuming your Mac is in a different room than the TV).


That is by NO MEANS CERTAIN!!! Think about it: FrontRow's Remote will work through this device communicating with the desktop to load content. iTV itself connects directly to the web and to iTunes to get trailers, etc.

It is VERY feasible that a widget, or external USB device, of some sort will allow PVR (like elgato) to work via remote back to the software on the server. This would not be a difficult addon.

[greenstork]

Thank you!
Finally. Most people are not getting it.
The only thing keeps me from screaming of excitement is IF the wireless stream will be perfect. If Apple can make it work, I'll do exactly what you have described above. Elgato will be my next purchase at the same time I'll buy ITV.

Have fun sitting down to your computer to record shows. I get the vision, I reallly do, and I wanted Apple to pull it off better than anyone. But having to record HD content from one piece of hardware, convert it on my computer, load it onto iTunes and stream it to another piece of hardware (iTV) isn't exactly user friendly. The fact of the matter is, Apple doesn't really want you recording TV. So, while not impossible, you do have to jump through a few hoops. Having used TiVo for years, I would never convert to such a complicated system. If Apple had a DVR, they'd also have my business.

[dante@sisna.com]

HDMI has nothing to do with the down res of an image. The Image Constraint Token dictates whether HD will be transmitted over analog channels like component. The ICT has not been implemented by any studio and they have stated it is not likely to be in the near future.

HDMI sends the signals and confirms the device on either end is compliant device. How the HDCP handles the situation is up to the studios and manufacturers.

That is exactly what I said, except in plain English.

To repeat: HDMI maintains image resolution and allows the receiving device (monitor with HD Compliancy) to adjust if needed. It also maintains encryption for DRM -- I said exactly what you said.

[myamid]

Wow, a TON OF YOU totally miss the iTV purpose, to stream content FROM YOUR MAC! That's why no tuner, no storage, no anything!! Does Airport Express have storage, an antenna, etc?!? NO!!!

I love this! I want one today! I'm going to get a huge HD, maybe two of them and start my stored media collection on my G5 that I can wirelessly access in my HT room from the iTV's wireless remote!! I love it!! Music, Family photos in a slide show, eyegato to record HD programs!! Awesome!!!

This so rocks and will make a ton of money for Apple! I can't wait, this is truly what I've been looking for as there's no HDMI out on my G5!!

Ok, if you're SOOOOO thrilled, you've been living in a cave because you could've been doing that for years, there's nothing new here aside for an apple logo on the box... the EyeHome could do that for the last 3 years (no storage, with a remote, streaming from my mac over Wifi - the eyehome physically connected to the router, my Mac on Wifi) (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome ). And you're right, it's great... Too bad you still have to wait 6 months :P

[HecubusPro]

I don't think the box will have local storage per-se. - it isn't advertised (yet) as a DVR. It's more like the Elgato EyeHome as it streams content stored on your computer. So the HD issue will be on the computer.

That's why I put the "EDIT" in my above post. Thanks. :)
And I think it's a brilliant idea allowing it to stream from your computer. Looks like I'll be getting an external terabyte drive. :D

[greenstork]

That is by NO MEANS CERTAIN!!! Think about it: FrontRow's Remote will work through this device communicating with the desktop to load content. iTV itself connects directly to the web and to iTunes to get trailers, etc.

It is VERY feasible that a widget, or external USB device, of some sort will allow PVR (like elgato) to work via remote back to the software on the server. This would not be a difficult addon.

If you're suggesting that Front Row's remote would be suitable for a DVR, I think you're dead wrong.

[dante@sisna.com]

Have fun sitting down to your computer to record shows. I get the vision, I reallly do, and I wanted Apple to pull it off better than anyone. But having to record HD content from one piece of hardware, convert it on my computer, load it onto iTunes and stream it to another piece of hardware (iTV) isn't exactly user friendly. The fact of the matter is, Apple doesn't really want you recording TV. So, while not impossible, you do have to jump through a few hoops. Having used TiVo for years, I would never convert to such a complicated system. If Apple had a DVR, they'd also have my business.

You are making a lot of Assumptions regarding complications. The addition of USB to iTV makes a host of third party addons possible that could easily surpass Tivo.

Wait and see -- it happened quickly with the iPod 4 years ago. It will be cheaper too -- no monthly fees and all managed by Front Row.

Now that is EASY!

[myamid]

That is by NO MEANS CERTAIN!!! Think about it: FrontRow's Remote will work through this device communicating with the desktop to load content. iTV itself connects directly to the web and to iTunes to get trailers, etc.

It is VERY feasible that a widget, or external USB device, of some sort will allow PVR (like elgato) to work via remote back to the software on the server. This would not be a difficult addon.

It's not certain, but It's a damn good bet that it won't record as it doesn't look like it'll have any storage... I wouldn't bet a dime on recording ability...

[dante@sisna.com]

If you're suggesting that Front Row's remote would be suitable for a DVR, I think you're dead wrong.

I never said that. I said a USB device would control the PVR recording software from any TV in your house.

The Front Row remote manages all content easily just like it does now, today.

[carfac]

The iTV is a winner for these reasons:
1) It does stream HD content -- Just because the iTunes content is NOT HD (it is near DVD) does not mean the DEVICE is not capable. In fact it uses the HDMI connector (as well as S and componet video) and the built in wireless AND gigabit ethernet insure the bandwidth is there for future HD content.

OK, I will grant this- but the software is (NOT YET) HD. Suppose it will be, though. But the TIVO is also HD, so the point is mute

2) The iTV defeats TIVO in NOT NEEDING a Hard Drive. The PC or MAC Desktop BECOMES the Media Server.

And you see this as an advantage??? I do not have much HD space left, so I must buy ANOTHER box for that, too? No, I want it all in one. Point TIVO

3) Tuners: Numerous Third Solutions (elgato for example) exist right now to capture High Def video to the Mac and PC -- the stream is pauseable.

ANOTHER Flipping Box for me to add??? So I have iTV, a Mac, Another HD, and now this???? Vs. a TIVO box. Yeah, no brainer here! Tivo Point

4) HD DVD -- With Blue Ray forthcoming, the Mac can still add DVD content to iTunes and then stream to iTV.

Look at the box- no room for an optivcal drive. So, add one to my mac, or add another flipping box. On top of whick, do you REALLY think the studios are going to let something out that will easily go to a disk? No Point.

5) Multiple Streams/Multiple TVs -- iTV beats Tivo in that you can use multiple iTV's connected to a powerful desktop to service multiple monitors using the Front Row Interface.

You have never set up a Tivo, have you? No Point.

6) The platform to expand: Apple's resources are superior to Tivo's and they will evolve beyond Tivo in the coming 2 years

This is an arguement with no basis. Why, because you say so? Because you are an Apple Fan Boy, and apple can do no wrong?

The thing is, I do not want 500 boxes in my living room, and 400 remotes to control all the different aspects of it. I want something all in one box, that works without me having to add something.

This MAY be an option for techno-nerds and such, but it is by no means a Tivo Killer- it does not even compare.

d

[dante@sisna.com]

It's not certain, but It's a damn good bet that it won't record as it doesn't look like it'll have any storage... I wouldn't bet a dime on recording ability...

You guys all miss the point. The Desktop is the Media Center! All recording gets done there. It is then served to ANY TV, iPOD, Stereo in the house.

Same way Windows Media and xBox 360 do it, only with a High Def slant.

[gugy]

Have fun sitting down to your computer to record shows. I get the vision, I reallly do, and I wanted Apple to pull it off better than anyone. But having to record HD content from one piece of hardware, convert it on my computer, load it onto iTunes and stream it to another piece of hardware (iTV) isn't exactly user friendly. The fact of the matter is, Apple doesn't really want you recording TV. So, while not impossible, you do have to jump through a few hoops. Having used TiVo for years, I would never convert to such a complicated system. If Apple had a DVR, they'd also have my business.

You don't understand. I am not planning to spend my entire day recording programming. Eventually there is a certain show or event that yes, I want to keep it and save for future viewing. This is where the elgato will come in.
I have my dishnetwork dvr and I love it and I am not planning to get rid of it anytime soon.
I think ITV is a great idea that has a lot of room to grow.
Yes, I rather buy content from Apple and have it stream directly to my ITV without having to go through the hassle of using elgato. But at this moment I think is very expensive to get a 640x480 movie. I rather wait for eventually a HDTV content on itunes. It might take 3 to 4 years for that to happen. Meanwhile I am enjoying my elgato and ITV for things that I want to keep and using my dishnetwork dvr for things i don't want to keep.

[dante@sisna.com]

Your clients represent the extreme minority of advertising content today. While that is changing, I concede, most advertisers are still in the old paradigm.

Not the guys with the Money.

The mom and pops perhaps, but all the players know what is coming and are preparing for it via cooperative partnerships, sponsorships, viral, geurilla, etc.

[ArcaneDevice]

Wow, a TON OF YOU totally miss the iTV purpose, to stream content FROM YOUR MAC! That's why no tuner, no storage, no anything!! Does Airport Express have storage, an antenna, etc?!? NO!!!


and the ideal candidate for this product would be someone who has a huge archive of DVD movies to stream to several rooms.

That person would be an AV enthusiast. iTunes is not for an AV enthusiast.

When iTunes steps up to offer decent visual content it might have a role but right now it's useless. Why are they going to buy all the episodes of Lost to stream to their 60 inch SXRD in one room, LCD panel in the others and the projector in the main room when it's presented in a substandard quality and not even widescreen.

Alternatively they can just get a couple of HD boxes from the cable/sat provider and hook them directly with full HD widescreen broadcasts or just plug in an antenna.

Until then this is going to be perfect for watching poorly encoded podcasts on a HDTV or movies that aren't even widescreen and have no extras for the same price as a DVD! :rolleyes:

The Mini was already a perfect device for this role. Throw in a large hard drive, just AV outputs, ethernet and and wireless connectivity for a multimedia keyboard and it was a standalone media center ready to go in anyone's living room that you could rip your own DVDs to.

In this case you have to have a main unit somewhere else humming away all day and stick this thing in the middle.

[myamid]

You guys all miss the point. The Desktop is the Media Center! All recording gets done there. It is then served to ANY TV, iPOD, Stereo in the house.

Same way Windows Media and xBox 360 do it, only with a High Def slant.

Actually I don't think many people are missing the point... Actually most of those who are so thrilled are missing the point that this is nothing new... It won't change anything or add anything that couldn't be done 2-3 years ago. IT IS a good idea, but IT IS NOT a new idea. It's an old idea recycled by Apple because it fits in their strategy - and plainly because Media Center PC generally suck at what they do...

But to do what you kinda magically assume you'll be able to do, you'll have to buy a seperate tuner... And if you ask me, Apple is likely NOT to allow eyeTV content from being streamed (since it would inherently hurt their TV SHOW store...)

[dante@sisna.com]

Ok, if you're SOOOOO thrilled, you've been living in a cave because you could've been doing that for years, there's nothing new here aside for an apple logo on the box... the EyeHome could do that for the last 3 years (no storage, with a remote, streaming from my mac over Wifi - the eyehome physically connected to the router, my Mac on Wifi) (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome ). And you're right, it's great... Too bad you still have to wait 6 months :P

Yes, except the point is the iTunes/Movie interface with EyeHome does not have. What is cool is you can now use BOTH!!!

And the HD capabilities of iTV exceed Eyehome.

[aftk2]

I agree with a previous poster who was longing for a developer kit, and with the recent post about third party addons. This is an exciting aspect to iTV, made possible because it streams its content from the host Mac.

For example, I'd hope they'd put in some simple way to stream the contents of my dashboard with one click onto a transparent overlay onto whatever I'm watching. Heh - check MySpace from the couch.

Wait! Did I say that? I mean, uh...get weather reports. And up to date stock information. Er. Yeah. That's it.

[greenstork]

You are making a lot of Assumptions regarding complications. The addition of USB to iTV makes a host of third party addons possible that could easily surpass Tivo.

Wait and see -- it happened quickly with the iPod 4 years ago. It will be cheaper too -- no monthly fees and all managed by Front Row.

Now that is EASY!

Please explain to me, even hypothetically, how this could be a Tivo killer DVR. As a basis for the argument, consider that TiVo (as of today) can record 2 HD channels simulteously, while watching a third previously recorded show. Plus you can pause live TV.

Elgato and Myth and all of the cable & satellite Co. DVRs haven't been able to compete with TiVo to date, what makes you thik they will be able to going forward?

[dante@sisna.com]

and the ideal candidate for this product would be someone who has a huge archive of DVD movies to stream to several rooms.

That person would be an AV enthusiast. iTunes is not for an AV enthusiast.

When iTunes steps up to offer decent visual content it might have a role but right now it's useless. Why are they going to buy all the episodes of Lost to stream to their 60 inch SXRD in one room, LCD panel in the others and the projector in the main room when it's presented in a substandard quality and not even widescreen.

Alternatively they can just get a couple of HD boxes from the cable/sat provider and hook them directly with full HD widescreen broadcasts or just plug in an antenna.

Until then this is going to be perfect for watching poorly encoded podcasts on a HDTV or movies that aren't even widescreen and have no extras for the same price as a DVD! :rolleyes:

The Mini was already a perfect device for this role. Throw in a large hard drive, just AV outputs, ethernet and and wireless connectivity for a multimedia keyboard and it was a standalone media center ready to go in anyone's living room that you could rip your own DVDs to.

In this case you have to have a main unit somewhere else humming away all day and stick this thing in the middle.

You are way off on serveral of your points -- iTV is widescreen to HD Complient Devices.

An enthusiast does not want to store DVD's -- they want drive based solutions with drive based backup. This is how all high end stuff is done. I work with a client that supports this kind of setup.

http://www.axonix.com/

I think you are misguided on this point.

[myamid]

Yes, except the point is the iTunes/Movie interface with EyeHome does not have. What is cool is you can now use BOTH!!!

And the HD capabilities of iTV exceed Eyehome.

Considering the quality of the content on iTunes... I'd say what I stream is about on par so I'm not loosing out too much...

And your first comment only applied to DRM protected content... for anything else, EyeHome is totally integrated with iTunes, iPhoto and movies...

[greenstork]

And the HD capabilities of iTV exceed Eyehome.

You do recognize that there is not currently an HD system in place from Apple. If HD streaming does work, and I'm certainly not convinced of that at this point, you still have to shoehorn the entire system. The content you purchase from iTunes is not in HD and probably won't be for at least a year, probably 2-3. Therefore, the only HD content will be content that you added on your own, via 3rd party solutions.

So enjoy your patchwork HD system, I'd prefer something more seamless, and supported by Apple.

[dante@sisna.com]

Please explain to me, even hypothetically, how this could be a Tivo killer DVR. As a basis for the argument, consider that TiVo (as of today) can record 2 HD channels simulteously, while watching a third previously recorded show. Plus you can pause live TV.

Elgato and Myth and all of the cable & satellite Co. DVRs haven't been able to compete with TiVo to date, what makes you thik they will be able to going forward?

How does Elgato not compete?

Sure it does:

1) I can pause mine.
2) I have a full software based one-click scheduling system
3) I can record high def content.
4) If I use two cards, I can record two streams via a signal splitter.
5) I can certainly watch a prerecorded show while doing all of the above: my Quad Core easily handles this.

[greenstork]

An enthusiast does not want to store DVD's -- they want drive based solutions with drive based backup. This is how all high end stuff is done.

I sure wish Apple would have come up with a system for ripping DVDs to my computer and cataloging them, that I would have loved. How much you want to bet that never happens?

[myamid]

You are way off on serveral of your points -- iTV is widescreen to HD Complient Devices.

An enthusiast does not want to store DVD's -- they want drive based solutions with drive based backup. This is how all high end stuff is done. I work with a client that supports this kind of setup.

http://www.axonix.com/

I think you are misguided on this point.

No, actually the guy had a very good point...

a) you're making assumptions on the iTV's capabilities which may not be true
b) iTunes content (music or movies) is of fair, but not great quality - no "Enthusiast" would want it (tech fans aside that is...)
c) Enthusiasts WILL buy HD DVDs / BluRay
d) Enthusiasts will want to OWN the media...
e) Enthusiasts most likely won't touch this with a stick...

As I alluded to earlier though, tech enthusiasts are another story, but these people (like me) are ofter turned on at the idea of doing something new, even if in the end the quality is just so-so

[dante@sisna.com]

You do recognize that there is not currently an HD system in place from Apple. If HD streaming does work, and I'm certainly not convinced of that at this point, you still have to shoehorn the entire system. The content you purchase from iTunes is not in HD and probably won't be for at least a year, probably 2-3. Therefore, the only HD content will be content that you added on your own, via 3rd party solutions.

So enjoy your patchwork HD system, I'd prefer something more seamless, and supported by Apple.

I am a video editor. All the content I shoot these days is High Def. My client's video is high def. The personal movies I take of my kids are high def. I edit them in either Final Cut Pro HD or iMovie HD. I use a dLink 550 now to stream high def to my 27 LCD monitor.

BlueRay disks are soon to be high def. The iTV will handle High Def via ethernet at least.

High Def Broadcasts exist right now in SLC.

Not sure where you are at with all this but I view a lot of high def content.

[dante@sisna.com]

No, actually the guy had a very good point...

a) you're making assumptions on the iTV's capabilities which may not be true
b) iTunes content (music or movies) is of fair, but not great quality - no "Enthusiast" would want it (tech fans aside that is...)
c) Enthusiasts WILL buy HD DVDs / BluRay
d) Enthusiasts will want to OWN the media...
e) Enthusiasts most likely won't touch this with a stick...

As I alluded to earlier though, tech enthusiasts are another story, but these people (like me) are ofter turned on at the idea of doing something new, even if in the end the quality is just so-so

From one enthusiast to another, we agree to disagree on your points b through e -- As far as point A, I think you should rewatch what Jobs said today. And view the apple press release on the device.

[theBB]

Ok, if you're SOOOOO thrilled, you've been living in a cave because you could've been doing that for years, there's nothing new here aside for an apple logo on the box... the EyeHome could do that for the last 3 years (no storage, with a remote, streaming from my mac over Wifi - the eyehome physically connected to the router, my Mac on Wifi) (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyehome ). And you're right, it's great... Too bad you still have to wait 6 months :P
Yes, but EyeHome does not support ALAC or Purchased AAC for audio, H.264 for video, it does not have a USB port to connect a USB drive with movies or music or to use it as a file server with that drive or hook a USB printer to use it as a print server. Needless to say, it cannot access iTunes store content, either. If iTV can do all of these, then it is definitely gonna be the winner.

[myamid]

I am a video editor. All the content I shoot these days is High Def. My client's video is high def. The personal movies I take of my kids are high def. I edit them in either Final Cut Pro HD or iMovie HD. I use a dLink 550 now to stream high def to my 27 LCD monitor.

BlueRay disks are soon to be high def. The iTV will handle High Def via ethernet at least.

High Def Broadcasts exist right now in SLC.

Not sure where you are at with all this but I view a lot of high def content.

So? This still doesn't mean that any HiDef content will show up on iTunes anytime soon or the the iTV will even support it out of the gate. I think it's a big mistake to assume things... Hope and dream all you want, but don't assume...

[greenstork]

How does Elgato not compete?

Sure it does:

1) I can pause mine.
2) I have a full software based one-click scheduling system
3) I can record high def content.
4) If I use two cards, I can record two streams via a signal splitter.
5) I can certainly watch a prerecorded show while doing all of the above: my Quad Core easily handles this.

Oh it's a competitor for sure, but doesn't measure up in terms of market and mind share. Can you do all of the above without interfacing with your computer? That's what I thought...

[myamid]

From one enthusiast to another, we agree to disagree on your points b through e -- As far as point A, I think you should rewatch what Jobs said today. And view the apple press release on the device.

Fair enough :)

[myamid]

Yes, but EyeHome does not support ALAC or Purchased AAC for audio, H.264 for video, it does not have a USB port to connect a USB drive with movies or music or to use it as a file server with that drive or hook a USB printer to use it as a print server. Needless to say, it cannot access iTunes store content, either. If iTV can do all of these, then it is definitely gonna be the winner.

All true... I still don't think that it's anything to jump up and down about.
One sad side-effect of the iTV however will probably to kill off any other 3rd party streaming boxes (either out today or in the pipeline). Elgato already has practically burried the EyeHome on their site... :-(

[HecubusPro]

Here's another pic from the event today, taken by the Gizmodo guys...

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701.JPG
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701-thumb.JPG

[myamid]

Here's another pic from the event today, taken by the Gizmodo guys...

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701.JPG
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/IMG_3701-thumb.JPG

Looks like a squished Mini :p

[greenstork]

I am a video editor. All the content I shoot these days is High Def. My client's video is high def. The personal movies I take of my kids are high def. I edit them in either Final Cut Pro HD or iMovie HD. I use a dLink 550 now to stream high def to my 27 LCD monitor.

BlueRay disks are soon to be high def. The iTV will handle High Def via ethernet at least.

High Def Broadcasts exist right now in SLC.

Not sure where you are at with all this but I view a lot of high def content.

I know there is plenty of HD out there but all I'm saying is that the only thing currenlty supported by Apple are your own home movies. There's no Apple solution for playing recorded HD television through their iTV. What's possible and waht's already integrated into iTunes are two different things, with completely different levels of geek involved.

[dante@sisna.com]

Oh it's a competitor for sure, but doesn't measure up in terms of market and mind share. Can you do all of the above without interfacing with your computer? That's what I thought...

No I cannot. I currently need the computer.

My bet is on the USB dongle which is sure to follow just like those for the xBox.

[balamw]

Here's another pic from the event today, taken by the Gizmodo guys...

Looking at their other pictures answered a question I was wondering. Does this thing have an Ethernet port, and it apparently does. I'd rather not rely on wireless. Right now I have a VGA cable from my iMac to my TV, so I'd gain something by replacing it with a simple CAT5.

I'm a bit surprised not to see any USB or FW ports on there though. I was betting on being able to hook up an optional HDD.

B

[theBB]

Does this thing have an Ethernet port, and it apparently does. I'd rather not rely on wireless. Right now I have a VGA cable from my iMac to my TV, so I'd gain something by replacing it with a simple CAT5.

I'm a bit surprised not to see any USB or FW ports on there though. I was betting on being able to hook up an optional HDD.

It's got USB.

[skellener]

At $2 a pop I'd be out maybe $6 per month.

Most shows air once a week so that's 3-5 times a month. So even 1 show will cost you $6-$10. So sure, if you watch one televison show (say LOST) at 3-5 episodes a month your doing fine. I would imagine most people take in 5 shows (3-5 episodes a month) or more per month. That's $30-$50 already for only 5 televison shows a month. $50 gets me all the standard and HD channels on DirecTV. iTunes is still not at that quality/price point yet.

[sam10685]

Looks like a squished Mini :p

that's the idea.

[balamw]

It's got USB.
Where? The pics I saw looked like power, Ethernet, HDMI and 5 RCA jacks for component out?

B

[dmelgar]

Sounded like a downer to me. I haven't seen the presentation, so maybe its better than the story sounds.

- Whatever happened to a Tivo killer? No TV? No DVR?
- Sounds like this doesn't have a hard drive, supposed to display on a TV a video bitstream received via network connection. There are already many devices out there that do this, starting at $99. What makes this any better? Big problem with those so far is that you need an excellent 802.11g connection or you get dropouts when playing a DVD. Ethernet is the only thing that makes it reliable.
- 1Q2007? Since when does Apple pre-announce. They've been working on this for over a year and 1Q2007 is the best they can do? I wonder what the holdup is. Missing the Christmas shopping season? Horrors!
- Movies on iTunes. What DRM is associated with the movies? Can you burn the movie to a DVD to play in a DVD player? How do the prices compare to buying a DVD. If its similar price, I get much more on a DVD, ie special features, can play anywhere.
- No rental? Why not. I'm much more likely to rent a movie than buy one. I'm more likely to value the convenience of renting quickly online vs. driving to a store. But to buy and keep forever, I'd rather get a DVD.
- What movies? Only from Disney? Doesn't sound very impressive. What would make other studios jump on the bandwagon? I thought Apple would come up with something revolutionary that would drag the studios in. But I don't see it yet.

[theBB]

$50 gets me all the standard and HD channels on DirecTV. iTunes is still not at that quality/price point yet.
Off topic, but how do you get your broadband internet? DSL? I guess DSL requires me to pay for a landline phone for another $20 per month, as I currently do not have a landline phone. Then, there is the DSL fee itself. Basic cable, broadband + HDTV is $62 per month right now. If I go with DirecTV, I would end up with DirecTV fees + $40 per month for DSL. Overall more expensive than cable.

[theBB]

Where? The pics I saw looked like power, Ethernet, HDMI and 5 RCA jacks for component out?

Between ethernet and power.

[timswim78]

I could not disagree more.

It exceeds the xBox 360 due to the inclusion of HDMI.
- XBOX might be getting HDMI, or maybe not.

It will play DVD's, for sure, through the desktop server
- Not very convenient to have to have a computer turned on to play DVD's. If your computer is in another room, changing DVD"s will be a real pain in the neck. It would be a whole lot simpler to just have a DVD drive in the unit.

It uses the superior FrontRow navigation system
- Superior to what? FrontRow has nothing on MCE's interface. I've used both, and MCE is better, IMO. (Of course, MCE allows one to record television.)

It has a cleaner appearance than xbox, no power brick, runs quieter and cooler
- No moving parts would make something quieter and cooler. However, this is not a standalone unit, and the need to run a server computer changes the quietness and coolness. I don't really want to look at computer or A/V equipment anyway.

Will not crash like the hot running xBox.
- And you know this from the test unit that Apple sent to you?

Will be prices slightly cheaper allowing for inclusion on multiple TV's throughout the home
- Cheaper than what? Or do you mean a quantity based discount?

It does not play games will work in Apple's favor as many parents don't want this feature for their children.
- So, these paretns should buy a networked DVD/Media player or a Media Center Extender. Are these the same parents that don't want their kids watching crappy TV, or is it OK for kids to watch horrible televsion programming as long as they don't play games?

Digital Cable and TV recording to Hard Disk are handled by the Media SERVER (desktop) using cheap and currently available 3rd party products -- watch for apple to bundle this in the coming year and one half.
- Sounds like a hodge-podged mess to me. If you really want simplicity, just buy a Media Center PC and one of the Windows Meda Extenders.


iTV is a winner for sure.
- I'll hold off judgement until I try one out for myself. (Actually, I probably won't try one. I only have on small TV in my house, and I only get over-the-air HDTV programming, no cable or sattelite.)

[gnasher729]

I sure wish Apple would have come up with a system for ripping DVDs to my computer and cataloging them, that I would have loved. How much you want to bet that never happens?

Use Handbrake to convert to H.264, then drag the result into iTunes.

[7racer]

This will be a nice solution if HD streaming is available.

I record my trips/vacations on a HD Sony camcorder and make a iDVD of it.

Hopefully, I will be able to stream this with HiDef to my TV without the need for either Bluray or HDDVD standard to play itself out.

[Demoman]

What do you think? Is this going to be part of a component system which may included a Blue-Ray, DVD, Mini...system stackable and user configurable?

[ddrueckhammer]

Actually as a media advertising agency owner I can tell you that you've got it backwards. Cable and Satellite are all planning to go to a totally on-demand solution much like iTunes. Commercials and advertising will evolve, through viral marketing and embedded content, as it always has. The days of linear programming cut up with ads are nearing their end.

You are right on track. I don't know if advertising is going the way of the Dodo but Verizon Fios was just introduced in my city and their on-demand content is instant and has the potential to far surpass anything that Apple can offer.


- No rental? Why not. I'm much more likely to rent a movie than buy one. I'm more likely to value the convenience of renting quickly online vs. driving to a store. But to buy and keep forever, I'd rather get a DVD.


I think Amazon stole their thunder...The Amazon offering at least offers rentals which competes somewhat with Netflix.

Off topic, but how do you get your broadband internet? DSL? I guess DSL requires me to pay for a landline phone for another $20 per month, as I currently do not have a landline phone. Then, there is the DSL fee itself. Basic cable, broadband + HDTV is $62 per month right now. If I go with DirecTV, I would end up with DirecTV fees + $40 per month for DSL. Overall more expensive than cable.

In my area, Verizon has unbundled the phone from the DSL. You don't have to pay for a phone to get DSL, it is just their gimmick to get you to pay for more. In fact, I'm not sure but I think the FCC might have ordered the phone companies to offer unbundled options...but that may be wrong.

[solafide]

I think this will be a great first step for Apple. Long term, I'd like to be able archive all my DVDs and play them through iTunes, just as I have done with my CDs. In the mid to long term, this would mean that Apple would have to work out a deal with a DRM solution with the content owners that would allow for a DVD (obviously this would not work with my currently owned DVDs) to be stored on a computer - authenticating back to the content owner's server, for example.

It may not be worth it, as everything will likely go to digital delivery anyway, in time.

I also would like a DVR, but in the long run, the traditional delivery model of TV will likely change. iTunes is a small foretaste. This would be huge, as it would necessarily change where, who, and how advertising dollars would be made. I betcha this will be keeping the cable, network, and movie execs up at night thinking through how they can control this potential shift in power and revenue to their own benefit.

All I know is I want to get rid of all the boxes surrounding my TV and speaker system, and be able to control all my TV, video, and audio assets through the TV - in the kind of eloquent way that it seems only Apple is capable of (I am sure this is not true - but I believe they have the best shot at providing an end-to-end user-friendly system).

The next few years are going to be very interesting.

[After G]

I don't watch TV - the market for it is not me ... TV these days is too full of crap. No DVR because I don't want to save crap.

My watching model is: I watch it once, I know what happened, I don't care for keeping it. Because of this, I don't buy DVDs. I don't want to pay $20 for a watch-once movie. And most of the $5-11 deals aren't. The theater is a better offer for me, but the environment sucked a long time ago, and still does.

Hmm ... I find myself doing more with the computer ... and less everywhere else. Sounds like I fit right in to the iTV demographic, that "digital hub" thing.

[tf23]

Will it support third party codecs?
Does it have an internal flash drive?
Will I be able to order Music, TV shows and Movies using it?
Do I need a separate computer to use it?

So far, I'm not impressed. How's it different than a media extender?
I would rather have seen a mac mini with core 2 duo, better graphics support, an internal 3.5" hard drive, and HDMI.

Outside codecs are doubtful. It'd support it in that if you convert the media that's encoded with the 3rd party codecs to something quicktime can handle.

Flash drive? *why* would that have any benefit. Too small. Very doubtful.

Ordering from it. Maybe. But then if you have 2 machines that it's pulling content from, which machine actually does the payment, downloading and storing of the file(s)?

A seperate computer? Seemingly, any OSX or Windows machine running iTunes will be what the 'iTV' pulls it's content from. So yes.

What's a 'media extender'?

I would love to know if those who are saying they'd rather have a Mac Mini, rather then an iTV (which would approx cost half what the Mini would) have ever used a Tivo or a ReplayTV. It's the interface that makes both of those what they are, the ease of use. It's what MythTV's always battled. Yes, you may be able to buy a Mini and morph it into an iTV, but at half the price, and having to spend the time dealing with it to make it all work, why bother? About the only justification for buying the Mini instead that I can see is if you don't already have a machine that can run iTunes.

[tf23]

I think it was a big mistake not to add a HD/TV-tuner/optical reader... THAT could be a killer. Right now we have an upgraded Airport extreme.

A tv-tuner/encoding chip on the thing would a) raise the price and b) be counter-productive for them to *sell* content through iTunes. So they won't do it.

But the eyeTV et all 3rd party makers have just got to be drooling over this 'iTV'. If there's enough processor power in the thing to play full HD out w/ full dolby audio, then it's only a matter of time (or imcremental upgrades) to 3rd party add-ons that could possibly let the 'iTV' grab content and store it locally on itself.

I for one hope the iTV can mount NFS shares and look for media files. If not NFS, smb could work, too.

[tf23]

...The think that worries me is that there is no mention of this device being able to play non-iTunes movies. What about if you back up a DVD to your computer. Can you play it on this? We'll have to wait and see.

I am willing to bet if you backup all your DVD's and then run them through handbrake you'll be set. Take all those 500-1.5GB mp4 files and drag and drop 'em into your iTunes. Then the 'iTV' would see them and there's your movie collection easily accessible.

[MarkCollette]

I realize they are saying that you're getting high-def, and it's wireless, but I have a hard time believing that a movie you can download in a half hour will be as good of quality as a DVD which is nearly 8gb in size.

To be fair, these videos are encoded using H.264, which is a newer and more efficient codec, bitrate wise, than MPEG2 which is used in DVDs.

EDIT: Plus I think these are 640x480 progressive scan, whereas DVDs are interlaced. Sure, that'll take more space, but it will also give it better quality.

[KindredMAC]

Could this actually be the Mac Home or iHome resurrection of the name of the fake product that came out a couple of years ago????

[EagerDragon]

So it seems from the coverage that the device has no optical drive, and no internal mass storage? Is that correct? And also that it is not itself a DVR? Don't get me wrong -- I'm reserving judgment. I just want to understand at this point. It sounds as if the basic purpose of the device is to draw high quality AV off a computer and onto a home entertainment system, sort of as the Roku SoundBridge did for the iPod's audio, but in a very Apple sort of way? In other words, it follows the computer-centric sort of model where a desktop or notebook Mac on the network is the "server"?
It is an overgrown Airport Express that only receives content and fowards it to the TV. Sorry, nothing to see here.

[egsaxy]

so a month ago, apple won't show us Tiger because they don't want anyone to copy what they're doing. Today they show us this set top box, that (atleast from the engaget comments) people think is pure rubbish, far behind everyone else's current products. Without reading the full 10 pages of commentary and not knowing if this has been brought up yet or not, but what if the prototype box, isn't anything like what they will give us in three months time? What if as someone mentioned on page one of these comments that its to pressure a studio into a contract? What if the living room box, ends up being far superior to what they showed us? what if it ends up having a dvd drive, and the tv tuner, and all of that other stuff that we want, and to be a truely amazing product we deserve. What if this box does look anything like the actual product? What if this box has totally different specs? What if we were shown this, and something else was going to be released? Apple is far too protective of its vision, strategy, and products that showing us this box doesn't add up. There will be an event about this box when its finally ready. The best place to hide is in the open. Not because you can't be seen, but because you can and its unexpected. Apple is doing a little magic trick for all of us, flashing this prototype iTv infront of us, and will deliever something far better when the time comes.

[maxspivak]

Is it just me or does the iTV look very stackable? My guess is that eventually you will have a Hard Drive, Optical Drive and the iTV all separate. This way you can upgrade to a BlueRay from a DVD drive or a 500Gig HD from a 250.
Do you think Im way off?

I actually like no built-in hdd. Storage should be attached physically or over the network. What's necessary on the client, and this iTV is definitely a client, is intelligent volume management. It should allow me to combine any number of physical disks into a single logical volume.

The same footprint as Mac Mini is also probably not a coincidence. If you want, you can stack both of them.

[EagerDragon]

This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".

Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
Not the same as a mini. You can not play a DVD like in a mini, you can not store content on a permanent basis like you can with a mini, and is not a full computer like a mini. It has a very small subset of the capabilities of the mini but with HDMI. A mini can do the same and more.

[srf4real]

thanx for posting the picture. i couldn't find it. I'm getting one and hope 811g from 15 feet is sufficient!
[edit] and another thing, I don't thing my mini connects to my tv??