Another Adobe salvo [Archive]

Gus

Mar 31, 2003, 01:35 AM

Here's the article from the AP. Notice they mention that Adobe won't be making a version for Macs, but it fails to mention that we already have iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. The article implies that Macs are left out in the cold. I wish the press would represent all [arts of a story. They are so half-baked nowadays.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030331/D7Q3T8P80.html

Regards,
Gus

macphoria

Mar 31, 2003, 02:16 AM

This is not a good news, especially following recent heated exchange between Apple and Adobe. I really do think if Adobe gets fed up with Apple and stops producing Mac softwares, Apple will be in serious trouble. I think this is not entirely unlikely scenario since Apple's market share has been declining, while performance of Intel and AMD based PC's are dominating Macs, which makes PC's more ideal for professional work and Adobe softwares.

I hope G5 or IBM 970 or whatever turns out to be what we hope to be and more.

nuckinfutz

Mar 31, 2003, 03:05 AM

If Adobe "really" wanted to increase revenue they'd develop this Encore app for Mac and maybe even Linux. At $500 it is half the cost of DVD Studio Pro.

I wish Adobe would stop being stoopid and realize that they "need" Apple as much as Apple needs them. This little "Cold War" that's developing is not going to accomplish anything. Besides Apple will kick Adobe's ass in any new application software.

irmongoose

Mar 31, 2003, 04:06 AM

Ughh.. Encore (http://www.gvox.com/) is already a registered name for an music-composition software (oh, and it's the best I've seen for Macs)...

irmongoose

LethalWolfe

Mar 31, 2003, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Gus
Here's the article from the AP. Notice they mention that Adobe won't be making a version for Macs, but it fails to mention that we already have iDVD and DVD Studio Pro. The article implies that Macs are left out in the cold. I wish the press would represent all [arts of a story. They are so half-baked nowadays.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030331/D7Q3T8P80.html

Regards,
Gus

I think you are over reacting Gus. How does one line, "Adobe isn't selling a version for Apple's Macintosh", given the impression that 1. Apple is left cold in the DVD authoring market, 2. the article is biased, and 3. the article is half-baked?

Lethal

Mr. Anderson

Mar 31, 2003, 09:41 AM

Adobe believes Encore already has a built-in market among the 1 million registered users of the Premiere software, said Giles Baker, the company's DVD product manager.

Ha, well, given that FCP is much nicer than Premiere, I'm guessing that this really doen't matter all that much.

Sure its cheaper, but maybe this will get Apple to lower the prices of DVDPro or make a DVDExpress....

I think its not much of big deal at all.

D

LethalWolfe

Mar 31, 2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by dukestreet
Adobe believes Encore already has a built-in market among the 1 million registered users of the Premiere software, said Giles Baker, the company's DVD product manager.

Ha, well, given that FCP is much nicer than Premiere, I'm guessing that this really doen't matter all that much.

Sure its cheaper, but maybe this will get Apple to lower the prices of DVDPro or make a DVDExpress....

I think its not much of big deal at all.

D

I think "DVD Studio Express" would be a worth while piece of software for apple to release. And no, I'm not just saying that 'cause I don't have enough $$$ to buy DVDSP. ;)

Lethal

Wes

Mar 31, 2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by the Retarded Reporter
Recordable DVDs are becoming a more popular media format because their storage capacity is up to 28 times greater than recordable CDs.

Is it me or is this guy talking about something he has no clue about. Recordable DVDs that I have hold 4.7 gigs and most cds are 650 megs. 4.7/.65 yields 7.2308. Even the professional dvds only hold 9.4 gigs which is still only 14.46 times. Where did he get the other space from? Given this, we should take his article, and views in general with a grain... wait... a pile of salt.

macphoria

Mar 31, 2003, 10:28 AM

-----Is it me or is this guy talking about something he
-----has no clue about. Recordable DVDs that I have
-----hold 4.7 gigs and most cds are 650 megs. 4.7/.65
-----yields 7.2308. Even the professional dvds only hold
-----9.4 gigs which is still only 14.46 times. Where did
-----he get the other space from? Given this, we should
-----take his article, and views in general with a grain...
-----wait... a pile of salt.

He meant Dual Layer AND Double Sided DVD, which can yield over 18 Gb.

Wes

Mar 31, 2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by macphoria
-----Is it me or is this guy talking about something he
-----has no clue about. Recordable DVDs that I have
-----hold 4.7 gigs and most cds are 650 megs. 4.7/.65
-----yields 7.2308. Even the professional dvds only hold
-----9.4 gigs which is still only 14.46 times. Where did
-----he get the other space from? Given this, we should
-----take his article, and views in general with a grain...
-----wait... a pile of salt.

He meant Dual Layer AND Double Sided DVD, which can yield over 18 Gb.

Which is no where near the range of the pro-sumer, who can not burn dual-layer dvds.

macphoria

Mar 31, 2003, 10:42 AM

-----Which is no where near the range of the pro-sumer,
-----who can not burn dual-layer dvds.

Not yet.

Same news about Adobe and DVD authoring is available at CNET.
http://news.com.com/2100-1046-994546.html?tag=fd_top

Gus

Mar 31, 2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I think you are over reacting Gus. How does one line, "Adobe isn't selling a version for Apple's Macintosh", given the impression that 1. Apple is left cold in the DVD authoring market, 2. the article is biased, and 3. the article is half-baked?

Lethal

Well, I got that impression as a reader because it does not go on to say that Apple Macintoshes already have software for burning DVDs. If they are going to make it a point to show that Adobe is not making the product Mac compatible, then they should also spend a line mentioning that Apple already has DVD burning products for Macs. I did not mean to imply that it was biased, however by half-baked, I meant that they did not really report a complete story. It would be fine if they hadn't made it a point to point out the Apple thing, but they did, and then never cleared or expanded on that idea. A well-written article would have at least left out the info rather than only reporting part of the story.

Regards,
Gus

bousozoku

Mar 31, 2003, 03:28 PM

LethalWolfe

Mar 31, 2003, 03:48 PM

The article was about Adobe's Encore. The article did a good job of giving relavent, basic info regarding Encore (price, platform, target audience etc.,). What does iDVD, DVDSP and the current state of DVD authoring on the Mac platform have to do w/Adobe's Encore?

Lethal

Gus

Mar 31, 2003, 03:54 PM

Because at the end of the article it mentions DVD authoring software from other companies, but it does not mention that Apple has its own software for it's DVD burners. Like I said, if it hadn't made the little comment about "Adobe isn't shipping a version for Apple Macintosh computers", then it wouldn't be necessary. If I didn't know that much about Apple, it would appear that because Adobe doesn't make this product for Macs, I would be screwed. All they had to do was throw in a line at the end with the other software that mentions iDVD and DVDSP. That's my point.

Regards,
Gus

Gus

Mar 31, 2003, 03:59 PM

See, the article on C/Net is done right. It mentions other platforms and software at the end olf the article. It only took one sentence, and instead of sounding like a plug for Adobe, it sounds like a researched product announcement.

Regards,
Gus

MorganX

Mar 31, 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
If Adobe "really" wanted to increase revenue they'd develop this Encore app for Mac and maybe even Linux. At $500 it is half the cost of DVD Studio Pro.

I wish Adobe would stop being stoopid and realize that they "need" Apple as much as Apple needs them. This little "Cold War" that's developing is not going to accomplish anything. Besides Apple will kick Adobe's ass in any new application software.

78% of Adobe sales are on the PC platform according to Adobe. They also note their Premier sales are heavier on the PC side will integrate with Encore. C|net did mention that Adobe says they are not developing it for the Mac platform because of DVD Studio Pro.

Cold War = Business

It is not unthinkable that if Adobe's sales skew any more toward the PC side for their high end applications, that they may allow the Mac platform to "sunset."

All I can say is I beleive Apple should make the first move of reconciliation here. I believe they have the most to lose.

LethalWolfe

Mar 31, 2003, 04:17 PM

Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe I guess. I find something irrelavent that you find relavent. :)

Lethal

Gus

Mar 31, 2003, 04:26 PM

True. It just bugs me, I guess. A lot of people will read that story, and while it doesn't deny the fact Apple has this capability, it doesn't exactly support it either.

Regards,
Gus

ftaok

Mar 31, 2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by MorganX
All I can say is I beleive Apple should make the first move of reconciliation here. I believe they have the most to lose. I totally agree with this statement 100%. Apple has a history of treating their "valued" partners like trash. I think the 1st slap in Adobe's face was including pdf'ing abilities right in OS X, thus bypassing the need for Acrobat.

The next slap, albeit in jest, was when Steve Jobs took a little jab at Adobe at a Macworld Keynote speech in regards to the lateness of Photoshop.

Apple definately needs to treat their "friends" better. It's just good business.

barkmonster

Mar 31, 2003, 05:48 PM

I totally agree with this statement 100%. Apple has a history of treating their "valued" partners like trash. I think the 1st slap in Adobe's face was including pdf'ing abilities right in OS X, thus bypassing the need for Acrobat.

I was under the impression that PDF was open source and adobe just made the earliest software to render and view the format ?

If anything apple are screwing their users rather than adobe by using such a needlessly bloated and cpu hungry technology to draw the screen. Remember, Quartz Extreme only accelerates the compositor, PDF is the technology that's handling the windows and text before it's rasterised and sent to the compositor. In a manner of speaking.

Everything you see on screen is the result of millions upon millions of calculations by Quartz, the revolutionary composited windowing system in Mac OS X that uses the Portable Document Format (PDF) as the basis of its imaging model.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.html

nuckinfutz

Mar 31, 2003, 06:24 PM

Apple won't reconcile with Adobe. Apple does not view Adobe as a Peer...never has...never will.

PDF support in OSX is very rudimentary. Anyone who truly needs Acrobat isn't going to be able to purchase OSX and get by

Adobe created alot of this mess themselves. Premiere sucks. It was late to support DV and it's slow. Apple can't survive with crap software.

Indesign and Photoshop seem to be the apps Adobe focuses the most on right now.

Apple will not reconcile with Adobe. The Graphics Market is big but not THAT big for Apple to be trembling over.

Nemesis

Mar 31, 2003, 06:33 PM

Life will tell you that no one is irreplaceable.

There are numerous solutions in the world, for just every category of software, and hardware, and just everything else. Mac OS X is a fine example of that.

Who says that Adobe is important? Apple can buy it anytime.
Or that we can't live without Macromedia? Microsoft can buy Macromedia anytime. And all their technologies, services and products.

Gimme a break. Apple is going the right way. They're begging for nothing -- if you want to develop for Mac platform, nice, do it. If you don't want to, fine, don't. What seems to be the problem?

The same thing is in life -- do you wanna date with me sweety? Yeah?! Good, thanks! ... Or, no ... oh, ... well. We can still be nice to each other.

Apple will never abandon its own platform. They are able to produce software like nobody else. They can, for example, use GIMP or similar project and make a Photoshop killer anytime. They can make a real 21st century app, much easier to use, which brings in even more new innovations.

Apple is now supported by thousands of programmers outside corporate walls, in the wast field of opensource and similar. Invisible programmers. Invisible future.

Be prepared for big, big surprises.

Nemesis

Mar 31, 2003, 06:36 PM

MorganX

Mar 31, 2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Nemesis
Life will tell you that no one is irreplaceable.

There are numerous solutions in the world, for just every category of software, and hardware, and just everything else.

Where's the solution for my bank that is supported in Quicken for Windows but not Quicken for Mac?

You don't have to go out of business to "sunset."

BTW, despite the bad decisions I think Apple is making, I'm still buying more Mac stuffs, becasue I like it. I'm moving my small business to MYOB.

Nemesis

Mar 31, 2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by MorganX
Where's the solution for my bank that is supported in Quicken for Windows but not Quicken for Mac?

You don't have to go out of business to "sunset."

BTW, despite the bad decisions I think Apple is making, I'm still buying more Mac stuffs, becasue I like it. I'm moving my small business to MYOB.

What Apple has to do with Quicken? If they're lazy to make a decent piece of software, then to hell with them. It's their decision, and you and Apple have nothing to do with that.

If you want, you can switch to Windows.

Apple cannot pursue anyone to make something.
If they want, they will.
If no one will, Apple will.

If you want something done right, do it yourself. It's always true.

MorganX

Mar 31, 2003, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Nemesis
What Apple has to do with Quicken? If they're lazy to make a decent piece of software, then to hell with them. It's their decision, and you and Apple have nothing to do with that.

If you want, you can switch to Windows.

Apple cannot pursue anyone to make something.
If they want, they will.
If no one will, Apple will.

If you want something done right, do it yourself. It's always true.

I probably will switch back to Windows eventually. For now I'm playing on Mac at home. Thank you for letting me know that I can do so any time I get ready. I feel so much better now that I have your permission and approval. I really wouldn't want to make a move without your go ahead.

And you're right, apple cannot pursue anyone to make anything. Not Intuit, not Adobe, and if they don't wake up, not anyone. If you think that's a good thing, you're being naive.

nuckinfutz

Mar 31, 2003, 11:21 PM

I don't think Photoshop is easily replaceable. It's far too mature for any newcomer to jump in with much competition.

I like Adobe Products. They've been the most stable Mac Graphics Developer. However they are severely mistaken if they think Apple will Kowtow to them.

Apple's job is to increase marketshare. If they have to shoulder the application development in some areas ..sobeit. One one thing talks to Developers and that is having Millions of potential purchasers of your product.

Apple ..increase marketshare and these problems will cease to happen.

Nemesis

Apr 1, 2003, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
I don't think Photoshop is easily replaceable. It's far too mature for any newcomer to jump in with much competition.

I like Adobe Products. They've been the most stable Mac Graphics Developer. However they are severely mistaken if they think Apple will Kowtow to them.

Apple's job is to increase marketshare. If they have to shoulder the application development in some areas ..sobeit. One one thing talks to Developers and that is having Millions of potential purchasers of your product.

Apple ..increase marketshare and these problems will cease to happen.

You're right. But, we also know that every product has its life cycle. For example, once upon a time QuarkXPress was great too, but it's now a part of desktop publishing history.

Photoshop is great, but not irreplaceable.

Market is a strange beast, very unpredictable. Things change. Adobe could, for example, kill its own product, say Illustrator, merge it with InDesign and intruduce a completely new one product (InDeisgn could be the name) that will exterminate all competition from DTP once and forever.

Possibilities are endless. People also thaught that Powerpoint is irreplaceable, or Internet Explorer, but now we see great products from Apple that are better than their role models.

nuckinfutz

Apr 1, 2003, 01:06 AM

Nemesis-

I'd love to see a Photoshop competititor but they're all dead.

Macromedia- Xres ..PS UI but died quietly

Live Picture- Good speed on low end machines but difficult UI, buggy. Died

Painter- Great features for natural media. Could have evolved into one hell of a photo editor. Neglected

TIFFany- small outfit. Powerful Cocoa app. difficult UI. App put on indefinate hold.

Photoshop has won. It's inertia is so strong other developers don't even want to try to compete with it. It's mature...stable and full featured. It just needs more speed.

Apple would have to scramble to created something that would take years to have even half of what PS can do.

Nemesis

Apr 1, 2003, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Nemesis-

I'd love to see a Photoshop competititor but they're all dead.

Macromedia- Xres ..PS UI but died quietly

Live Picture- Good speed on low end machines but difficult UI, buggy. Died

Painter- Great features for natural media. Could have evolved into one hell of a photo editor. Neglected

TIFFany- small outfit. Powerful Cocoa app. difficult UI. App put on indefinate hold.

Photoshop has won. It's inertia is so strong other developers don't even want to try to compete with it. It's mature...stable and full featured. It just needs more speed.

Apple would have to scramble to created something that would take years to have even half of what PS can do.

You've just said: Painter! ;-)
Buy it, add great new stuff, and integrate it with iLife.
And include it for free with every new Mac.

If there is no option left, this could be one.

But I think Adobe is not that stupid to abandon the next major releases of Photoshop off the Mac platform. After all, if it wasn't for Apple, Adobe wouldn't exist.

But today, I trust no one. :-)