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MacBytes
Sep 13, 2006, 03:32 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Every empire crumbles (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060913163229)
Description:: Apple is losing its hip and unpredictable edge as it risks being left behind by the very technology it helped to proliferate, says Victor Keegan

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 03:34 PM
I agree with this - read it earlier.

Yesterday was a serious disappointment for a company that is usually on the bleeding edge.

We witnessed the iPod jumping the shark, IMHO.

thedude110
Sep 13, 2006, 04:02 PM
The iTV preview does smack of desperation -- it basically says "We've nothing new to announce, but we're working on it." Not very Apple.

It's worrisome that more and more peole tend to say "We want something revolutionary" about Apple lately. It doesn't matter how high Apple's set the bar, they've still gotta jump over it.

Such that:

Where's my iNewton in tablet form running Piles, Steve?

bluebomberman
Sep 13, 2006, 04:06 PM
Sorry, can't disagree with this article more.

I see iPods everywhere. I see phones everywhere, too, but almost none of them are used for music. (The only times I see them used for music or movies is when people start playing $2.99 ringtones in the middle of the subway car, just inviting people to give them dirty "I oughta shove your phone up your you-know-what...")

So we get even cooler, cheaper, bigger capaticity iPods and that's a disappointment? Much higher quality video downloads are a disappointment? And the iTV announcement's getting trashed for being a sneak preview instead of a sudden bomb? Come on. Clearly, it was shown to get people to see that their movie downloads were not going to be cornered to their computer like a certain movie download service introduced last week.

Furthermore, knocking down the video annoucements by a) bringing up the limited selection (which, at 75 movies, is a helluva lot better than the 5 TV shows offered in 1/4 of today's video download resolutions), and b) bringing up YouTube, when Apple already encourages people to load homemade and free audio and video podcasts into their iPod, is weak.

Apple probably has a lot more prototypes under wraps (video iPod and iPhone being the most likely), but the iTV clearly is a box that's being held up by a lack of fast wireless. (Note the lack of definition of what Wi-Fi it's using.)

Eraserhead
Sep 13, 2006, 04:08 PM
The iTV preview does smack of desperation -- it basically says "We've nothing new to announce, but we're working on it." Not very Apple.

I agree, however apart from the boring grey coloured scroll-bars I like the new iTunes (apart from separating every song with an empty album name on the new views :mad: )

It's also interesting that I can finally say to a lot of people, buy a Mac/iPod, if you don't, you're a fool, the new iPod is totally better than the competition, they are also excellent value for money (compared to the competition) too, Apple is doing fine.

To be honest the Guardian is just being awful and I read the damn paper.


I see iPods everywhere. I see phones everywhere, too, but almost none of them are used for music.


Definitely, I have a mobile and an iPod, the phone has a music player, have I copied any music to it? No, even with Apple's excellent bluetooth support, I cannot be bothered as my iPod is so much easier to use.

mainstreetmark
Sep 13, 2006, 04:10 PM
You know why a lot of people (such as myself) feel that way? Macrumors.

Because of this site, I already expected ipod updates, movie downloads and a settop device of some sort.

Kind of like "Here's a surprise present for you! It's probably a gift certificate". Oh! It IS a gift certificate. Lackluster.

dbonesyl
Sep 13, 2006, 04:15 PM
The author didn't do his research very well or he would have known:

1. Selling songs on the ITMS doesn't generate revenue (directly) for Apple.

2. They aren't going to call the device iTV, its a codename, thus there will be no need for any attorney's to get wealthy.

Queso
Sep 13, 2006, 04:16 PM
If it weren't the famously Apple-hating Guardian printing this article I'd take it more seriously. They seem to really detest anything either Mac or iPod related with a passion.

bluebomberman
Sep 13, 2006, 04:18 PM
What really bugs me about yesterday's presentation is that the audience was incredibly stoic. At MacWorld, people jump up and down at the next iDVD update.

The whole thing reminded me of the introduction of the iPod Nano last year. The only time the audience even registered anything close to emotion was when he pulled a Nano out of his change pocket.

I can't help but wonder if a lot of us on the outside who watch the video stream think the annoucements are lackluster because the audience is out writing articles on CNET and elsewhere stating how a $2500 Windows Media Center computer and a crappy Creative Zen is better than Apple's stuff.

technocoy
Sep 13, 2006, 04:22 PM
firstly, it will NOT BE CALLED iTV! did any of these journalist actually view the event?

secondly, the media hypes apple's offering out of realism based on rumor and investor speculation and when they deliver a real tangible product that doesn't match the fantasy of the "prophecy" they are all of a sudden a doomed company no longer on the edge...

whatever.

people complain that they aren't spending enough time on computers... hence they spend an entire year making everyone of it's lines cutting edge with the intel transition. but no, thats not enough... NOW they aren't spending enough time on the iPod!

first of all, they have a flurry of patents that in all real logic, if they are being applied to interface engineering and the iPod platform, are getting ready to change computing as we know it today. the next truly new iPod device we see from apple is going to rock the industry, and I'd put serious cash on that. Apple isn't blind. They are waiting on infrastructures to be in place for much of what they want to accomplish.

secondly, the iPod isn't going anywhere for quite some time... people seem to constantly forget the installed 3rd party accessory support for the iPod no other electronic device comes CLOSE. can't touch it. nearly every car manufacturer is including iPod interface support, numerous audio and video manufacturers are building peripherals and making their product iPod compatible. friggin display companies are making built in iPod docks for crying out loud.

yeah, it's saturated, it's also EMBEDDED. so yes, sales my plateau, but even then apple would remain one of the most profitable tech companies. i would say it's a proud moment when you have sold so many of a product that it's in nearly every household around the world.

the only reason there isn't every friggin movie from every publisher on that store is because of one reason and one reason only... the greed of the movie industry. they are blackballing apple simply because they want far too much money for an inferior copy of a product and apple doesn't agree.

Apple is no angel, but by god I think people should applaud apple for sticking to their guns and at least TRYING to look out for the consumer. so, if they had agreed to the 19.99 per download that the industry wanted and gotten all the content for download would you all be happy? hell no you wouldn't, because that would be too much money for a movie download at friggin 640x480.

all this downfall of apple crap has gotten pathetic... it's king of the hill mentality gone awry...

when my convergeance device done to perfection is in my hands next year with a cameleon OLED touch screen with haptic feedback that morphs beautifully from my GPRS/EDGE phone to my GPS navigator to my iPod to my 7MP digital movie camera with iChat free calling and videoconferencing, with no need for the pda because it uses the resolution independent interface of panther to recreate my desktop over the wireless network using the giant data center they purchased last year... we'll see what the media has to say then...

;-)

my point is... every year it's the same story.... every year apple sells MASSIVE amounts of iPods and year over year for the past few years the Mac sales have increased as well.... if you ask me, Apple is gaining momentum as a WHOLE. quit focusing everything on the iPod masturbation of wallstreet.

x86isslow
Sep 13, 2006, 04:25 PM
The article stated that yesterday's presentation was held during
at the company's much hyped developers' jamboree in San Francisco yesterday. :eek: :eek: :eek:

What is this guy talking about? The WWDC at Moscone Center was nearly a month ago- recycle your news stories, any?

tk421
Sep 13, 2006, 04:28 PM
Based on the title "Every Empire Crumbles," I thought the article was going to be about Microsoft. You know, their future. Imagine my surprise when it was about Apple.

Rend It
Sep 13, 2006, 04:30 PM
This can be read elsewhere, but...

1) Normally, Apple wouldn't have said anything about the iTV. However, giving a preview about such a device makes the whole iTunes movie store thing much more appealing to consumers, movie studios, and Apple's shareholders.

2) What's not to love about yesterday's event? Apple managed to infuse the much-loved mini into the nano, we finally got gapless playback, and the Shuffle is absurdly small.

3) If you stop reading Macrumors, you will stop being dissappointed by Apple's new stuff.

4) In the end, the proof is in the pudding. Apple's going out on a limb with the downloadable movies and streaming from computer to TV, but they did just that with the iPod, and look where it got them. :D

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 04:32 PM
Instead of delving into pedantic journalistic details, would anyone care to explain how a brightness control, games, bigger HD and a few other tweaks after a year of waiting is a good thing? :confused:

I think the article was spot on. Steve was making excuses and bowing to pressure yesterday---and it was sad. You could tell he knew it was a lame release.

me_94501
Sep 13, 2006, 04:33 PM
The article stated that yesterday's presentation was held during
:eek: :eek: :eek:

What is this guy talking about? The WWDC at Moscone Center was nearly a month ago- recycle your news stories, any?
Yeah, the errors and tone of baseless criticism made this article easy to dismiss.

Yesterday's event met my expectations for the most part (though I'm not happy with the iTunes 7 UI changes). I think the media needs to get out of the business of following the rumor sites; it just breeds inflated expectations, hype, and poor journalism from pundits. They are, after all, just rumors.

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 04:34 PM
Yeah, the errors and tone of baseless criticism made this article easy to dismiss.

What baselss criticism?

technocoy
Sep 13, 2006, 04:38 PM
the current iPods are selling like hotcakes. the average consumer isn't waiting on updates from apple for the iPod. They don't have the 6G iPod ready yet. SOOOO, they couldn't very well release it yet.

It's a holdover, just like 1.67 powerbooks update i bought in november last year after waiting over a year for an update.... then WHAM! i get floored when just over a month later there are intel powerbooks released at Macworld SF!

The majority of this planet didn't even know there WAS an apple announcement yesterday... only nerds and fanboys like us were dissapointed because we expected the swiss army iPod.

me_94501
Sep 13, 2006, 04:39 PM
Instead of delving into pedantic journalistic details, would anyone care to explain how a brightness control, games, bigger HD and a few other tweaks after a year of waiting is a good thing? :confused:

I think the article was spot on. Steve was making excuses and bowing to pressure yesterday---and it was sad. You could tell he knew it was a lame release.
I don't feel that way at all. There's little way I can think of to make major upgrades to the iPod short of coming out with something radically different. By that I mean something like the much-rumored widescreen iPod, which could be something in the works or could be fantasy at this point...

But then again I've also tempered my expectations since the disappointment of the Mac mini media event in February.

technocoy
Sep 13, 2006, 04:43 PM
THIS:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500

this happens everytime (in reference to the movie store and "iTV')...

even if they do goof, who cares... you have to learn from mistakes sometimes... the cube was a monumental goof... and we can all see how it brought apple falling to the ground.

me_94501
Sep 13, 2006, 04:44 PM
What baselss criticism?
This nugget stood out:

"Make no mistake, these are going to be difficult times for Apple."

How? iPods are still selling very well. The holiday shopping season is right around the corner. Macs are selling extremely well. All signs seem to be pointing toward continued growth and success. Maybe not 200% growth or something crazy (that's just simply unsustainable), but unless disaster strikes I don't see Apple falling into a put anytime soon. You want difficult times? Just look back to 1996-1997 and to a lesser extent, the flat years of 2001-2002.

Maybe it's not so much baseless criticism, as the writer does temper the above statement later in the article, but it is still an irresponsible thing to say.

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 04:47 PM
THIS:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500

this happens everytime (in reference to the movie store and "iTV')...

even if they do goof, who cares... you have to learn from mistakes sometimes... the cube was a monumental goof... and we can all see how it brought apple falling to the ground.

40% of Apple's revenue wasn't pouring in from the cube - it is for the iPod.

Believe me, when the iPod fails, it will hurt Apple.

Queso
Sep 13, 2006, 04:48 PM
I went to the Apple Store after work to buy a new nano. Since the delivery had only just come in this afternoon, we were told to go to one of the desks upstairs. There was quite a queue. The three girls in front of me were talking. One was replacing her broken pink mini with a pink nano and the other two were buying their first iPods. They all went for coloured ones. One green, one blue, and of course I've already mentioned the pink.

Apple corrected a mistake yesterday by bringing back the colour choices. That alone will see a jump in sales over Christmas.

technocoy
Sep 13, 2006, 04:48 PM
yeah, things are tough when your media player is like 75 percent of the entire market, your computers are gaining sales, and you have like 8-9 billion in the bank.

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 04:49 PM
yeah, things are tough when your media player is like 75 percent of the entire market, your computers are gaining sales, and you have like 8-9 billion in the bank.

Who said things were tough?

dashiel
Sep 13, 2006, 04:51 PM
exciting times are ahead! when the mainstream press starts spouting their "apple is doomed" prophecies that's when the jobsian apple really knocks it out of the part. the first time we got the imac, the second we got the ipod. brace yourselves people iTV was not it, there's something else coming.

The author didn't do his research very well or he would have known:
1. Selling songs on the ITMS doesn't generate revenue (directly) for Apple.


yes, it does. the break even myth is well a myth.

Chimera
Sep 13, 2006, 04:52 PM
Instead of delving into pedantic journalistic details, would anyone care to explain how a brightness control, games, bigger HD and a few other tweaks after a year of waiting is a good thing? :confused:


It's not a good thing but you have to remember the revisions to iPods prior to last year, i.e. small steps in only control interfaces and screen sizes here (http://www.macinfo.co.uk/Extras/Evolutionary%20Tree/ipodfamily.html), the widescreen update will be the most radical change for ANY iPod EVER and is therefore it is taking a large amount of time - I wouldn't think they have it ready and are holding it back.

To sum it up last years events were so revolutionary that they raised everyones expectations too high, the nano and shuffle updates are impressive while the iPod is pretty much the same but it's probably the one model out of the three with the least competition now (Zune pending) so I don't see the empire crumbling anytime soon.

iGary
Sep 13, 2006, 04:55 PM
It's not a good thing but you have to remember the revisions to iPods prior to last year, i.e. small steps in only control interfaces and screen sizes here (http://www.macinfo.co.uk/Extras/Evolutionary%20Tree/ipodfamily.html), the widescreen update will be the most radical change for ANY iPod EVER and is therefore it is taking a large amount of time - I wouldn't think they have it ready and are holding it back.

To sum it up last years events was so revolutionary that they raised everyones expectations too high, the nano and shuffle updates are impressive while the iPod is pretty much the same but it's probably the one model out of the three with the least competition now so I don't see the empire crumbling anytime soon.

I don't think anyone's expectations are too high - a year in technology is a LONG time to go between updates and when you get minor improvements that people have been asking for for years, it's a bit scary. I really hope I'm off my rocker and totally wrong.

I don't think the new iPod give many people reason to upgrade and I think it's a weak lineup to go into the holiday season with.

technocoy
Sep 13, 2006, 04:55 PM
I agree that WHEN the iPod fails it will affect apple's bottom line... but what points to failure? market saturation? i don't consider that failure, i consider that a plateau. so thats the worst scenario that seems LIKELY in the near future... the other being a slow year after year decline of iPod sales as something else becomes hip... but since I have never known a single other computer company to be "hip". i don't see that soming for at least a while longer.

furthermore, if apple can't come up with something else to impress us by the time the slow death of the iPod is over, do they really deserve the attention anyway?

I don't know about you, but even though i love my iPod, i love my mac alot more... So as long as people keep paying money for the apple experience, I'm happy. Apple has wowed me with innovation and interface design for twenty years, if they stop doing that, then i stop being a mac user.

Chimera
Sep 13, 2006, 05:05 PM
I don't think anyone's expectations are too high - a year in technology is a LONG time to go between updates and when you get minor improvements that people have been asking for for years

I don't think the new iPod give many people reason to upgrade and I think it's a weak lineup to go into the holiday season with.

So would you say the change from scroll wheel > scroll pad, or scroll pad > touch buttons, or touch buttons > click wheel, then monochrome > colour were major improvements? Yes these models had capacity and price improvements but so did yesterdays models.

I think to the general public (not the technorati) the price decreases will be the major factor and do you really believe the new nano and shuffle constitute a weak lineup?

Right now it may seem that Apple is losing it but in the grand scheme of things the evolution of the line has just slowed down to what it was before last year in my opinion.

SPUY767
Sep 13, 2006, 06:59 PM
If it weren't the famously Apple-hating Guardian printing this article I'd take it more seriously. They seem to really detest anything either Mac or iPod related with a passion.


Yeah, the Guardian is typically the UK's C|Net. If you want unbiased reviews, that are a bit funnier, I might add, go to Theregister.co.uk

IJ Reilly
Sep 13, 2006, 07:04 PM
The author didn't do his research very well or he would have known:

1. Selling songs on the ITMS doesn't generate revenue (directly) for Apple.

2. They aren't going to call the device iTV, its a codename, thus there will be no need for any attorney's to get wealthy.

Exactly. Whenever I read an article like this, I can't help asking myself, "People actually get paid for writing this crap?"

You'd think a newspaper as large as the Guardian would have enough money to hire reporters who actually know things.

SPUY767
Sep 13, 2006, 07:06 PM
the break even myth is — well a myth.


I think the figure is about $0.11 goes to apple for every song sold, and sure, that's 150 million dollars. Do you have any idea how much it takes to keep a site running that eats as much bandwidth as iTMS does?

IJ Reilly
Sep 13, 2006, 07:06 PM
What really bugs me about yesterday's presentation is that the audience was incredibly stoic. At MacWorld, people jump up and down at the next iDVD update.

Because this was a press event, not an expo. The audience is completely different.

bluebomberman
Sep 13, 2006, 07:59 PM
Because this was a press event, not an expo. The audience is completely different.

They ought to take a page out of the White House playbook and spike the crowd with Mac fans.:p

Plymouthbreezer
Sep 13, 2006, 08:17 PM
Instead of delving into pedantic journalistic details, would anyone care to explain how a brightness control, games, bigger HD and a few other tweaks after a year of waiting is a good thing? :confused:

I think the article was spot on. Steve was making excuses and bowing to pressure yesterday---and it was sad. You could tell he knew it was a lame release.You forget that we're on the small majority who "wait years" for new products. Most consumers don't give a damn - and that's reality. Ask little Cindy what "generation" iPod plays videos and she'll say "what?"

There will always be those who downplay Apple's success.

PCMacUser
Sep 13, 2006, 08:29 PM
I don't have a problem with Apple's lack of mind blowing hardware this time around. But I do have a problem with the lack of availability of the few things Steve presented. Apple have no intention of making the iTunes Store available in New Zealand, which means NO song downloads and NO movie downloads. I can understand their philosophy - NZ is a small market with only 4 million inhabitants. But it's basically a 'you don't have money so we don't care about you' approach.

And last time I checked (a few months ago), movie downloads were still not available even in the UK Store.

As for the new iPod Nano - I went to my local Apple reseller yesterday who informed me that it may be a month or so before we see them in NZ, since it's the last place in the world to get new Apple products. I would've bought one on the spot if they'd had one, to replace my wife's aging iPod Mini. And did my reseller have the new 24" iMac in stock or even a price? Not a chance!

Sorry about the rant, but Apple aren't exactly doing themselves any favours 'Down Under'.

Demoman
Sep 13, 2006, 08:48 PM
This can be read elsewhere, but...

1) Normally, Apple wouldn't have said anything about the iTV. However, giving a preview about such a device makes the whole iTunes movie store thing much more appealing to consumers, movie studios, and Apple's shareholders.

2) What's not to love about yesterday's event? Apple managed to infuse the much-loved mini into the nano, we finally got gapless playback, and the Shuffle is absurdly small.

3) If you stop reading Macrumors, you will stop being dissappointed by Apple's new stuff.

4) In the end, the proof is in the pudding. Apple's going out on a limb with the downloadable movies and streaming from computer to TV, but they did just that with the iPod, and look where it got them. :D

There are some posters on this site that are just plain 'ball busters'. They complain about everything Apple. Some are even demi-Gods (whatever that is suppose to mean). All I hear from them is some reason to dump and I seldom ever read anything positive. There are also a lot of 'Newbies' who start a thread with a subject title that sounds like it came from Fox News; "Why can't Apple ever get it right?" kind of stuff. Then the actual post is totally tempered to some innocuous thing like they want more iPod colors. But, casual visitors, and potential switchers just see the headlines and boogie.

What is the deal here folks? Did I somehow find an anti-Apple website and not know it?

halhiker
Sep 14, 2006, 03:52 AM
I don't get this whole empire crumbling schtick. If anything the announcements Tuesday gave me even MORE enthusiasm for Apple's future.

One, the new shuffle and nano will be HUGE sellers for Xmas. The shuffle will be, at that price point, an impulse item and a second iPod for a LOT of users. The colored Nanos have the cute factor and I'm VERY happy with my 2GB model but would like more storage. A 8GB model might be on my list for Santa. The price reduction of the 30GB iPod will make it even more appealing with it's capabilities of doing video and pictures. What do some people expect, your iPod to give you a massage with a happy ending?

I know, you want to full screen and a phone but hey, the longer you wait the better it's going to be and with the way prices for components go down, it'll be at a MUCH better price point than it would have been last year. Apple will release such a thing when a). the product is ready and b). the market is ready.

I think the iTV (or whatever they will call it) has potential to totally change the way we watch TV and movies. Will I even need cable, except to watch live sports (and with online live feeds will I even need it then?) And if Apple can sell millions of TV shows that people could only watch on their iPods or computers, how will they do when you can watch it on your TV? And the movies? As online speed increases and storage gets cheaper all movies will be downloaded. DVD's will go the way of VHS tapes, just as CD's will go the way of cassettes and before them 8-tracks. They just aren't needed anymore. I just don't understand the "disappointment".

Lastly, almost lost in the announcements was the little thing about games. Apple is working on games! Now do you think they're only going to be happy with doing little games for the iPod? SJ mentioned they're working with EA and others to produce games. Now, how are you going to get these games? iTunes. Where are you going to play these games? Your TV. If they build a controller component into the iTV you can not only do music, TV shows and movies but games, too. You won't need an Xbox, Playstation or Nintendo to do so. And funny, Walt Mossberg just wrote a column about online, downloadable games in the Wall Street Journal Wednesday. What a strange coincidence.

Disappointed? No, actually, I can't wait to see what's next.

An empire crumbling? Please! Lay off the pipe.

And, BTW, Apple also makes computers!

spicyapple
Sep 14, 2006, 04:25 AM
We witnessed the iPod jumping the shark, IMHO.
Actually, I feel if Apple released a true touchscreen video iPod now, it would have jumped the shark. I feel Apple will not introduce a true video iPod until 2008 when the technology is really mature and the general consumer market demands it. Widescreen touch-screen iPods are still very much in the geek/nerd domain.

rdowns
Sep 14, 2006, 04:54 AM
The article is rubbish. Sure, Apple will find it tough to maintain the growth in sales of the iPod but the article had a lot of factual errors.

We on MR are a more sophisticated consumer of electronics than the average Joe. The average Joe knows almost nothing that we discuss here. Most know this - ooh, more storage space, prettier colors, movies- I want one. I predict record breaking iPod sales for xmas. Wall Street also seems to like the announcement - stock went up on the rumor and the news.

Declining iPod sales the past 2 quarters - That's not how you compare sales. We have buying seasons. You compare a quarter's sales with the same quarter of a year earlier. Of course Apple sold fewer iPods in their Q2 and Q3 than Q1 (which was xmas). :rolleyes: They can write the iPod has plateaued if xmas sales decline over last years.

Compare Apples movie service to Amazon's. Amazon has a ton more films- they win big here. Where they lose - no iPod compatibility. The fact that Amazon decided to enter this business with Apple having a huge head start - speaks well of the model. Amazon's PC requirements - quite high, many, many do not have PCs speced that way. I bet you see studios being added at a nice clip. Apple needs to release early movie download numbers after a month to help spur this.

Why has almost all the media reported the iTV as the name of the product? It was clearly labeled as an internal name. I like the name iMedia for the box.

steve_hill4
Sep 14, 2006, 05:18 AM
If it weren't the famously Apple-hating Guardian printing this article I'd take it more seriously. They seem to really detest anything either Mac or iPod related with a passion.
Strange, every job I see advertised forn the Grauniad, it requires Mac skills. Also, if you read through their pages, they seem to accept more than any that not only iPods, but Podcasts are an important part of society and the New media. Voted number 2 in their recent world's most powerful media figures - Steve Jobs.

I think their Apple bashing is more a case of trying to predict their fall so they look good when they do. Let's face it, they're right in the title, every empire does fall eventually, look at Microsoft to an extent today. If anyone would have said it continuously back in the late 90's when they were selling more and more, they would have been laughed at, but every day I speak to people fed up of Windows and wanting a change. Who would have thought Sony would be getting beat on a lot of fronts they once dominated?

It's enivitable that Apple will face stronger and stronger challenges, especially with the Zune coming, but they need to position themselves so they can keep their number 1 position. So I expect Apple to fall on the mp3 front eventually, but if they position themselves strong in other areas, as a company they should prosper for quite some time yet.

Queso
Sep 14, 2006, 05:28 AM
Strange, every job I see advertised forn the Grauniad, it requires Mac skills. Also, if you read through their pages, they seem to accept more than any that not only iPods, but Podcasts are an important part of society and the New media. Voted number 2 in their recent world's most powerful media figures - Steve Jobs.
Strange indeed. The Guardians' target market of left-leaning professionals and media types has enormous crossover with those you'd consider "natural" Mac and iPod owners, yet whenever they write an article about Apple or the Mac it always has a negative slant.

If anyone would have said it continuously back in the late 90's when they were selling more and more, they would have been laughed at, but every day I speak to people fed up of Windows and wanting a change
Microsoft's "downfall" has been of their own making. They have completely lost their way on every front since 2001. I think to turn it around will take a massive boardroom and upper-management clearout, but sadly the board members and upper-management own such huge chunks of the company that's never going to happen. To top it off, they put a salesman in charge. Anyone who knows the history of Apple knows how well that works :rolleyes:

zap2
Sep 14, 2006, 05:48 AM
Instead of delving into pedantic journalistic details, would anyone care to explain how a brightness control, games, bigger HD and a few other tweaks after a year of waiting is a good thing? :confused:

I think the article was spot on. Steve was making excuses and bowing to pressure yesterday---and it was sad. You could tell he knew it was a lame release.


The 5.5G iPod is a bit weak, but it adds improvement where the iPod needs it..its now cheaper then a Creative Zen(or what every they are calling their Mp3 player that fights the iPod) The Nano is fixing its biggest problem..scratches, and now its cheaper, it broke then the 1k limit the old Nano had and color,people love those colors. I love the new Shuffle, keeps the simply uses feel, but got a lot smaller.

I think its clear that not every update to a product can be its best update....i think iTV look good...I used my Mini for that reason, but I need my mini upstairs, I'm going to pick up a iTV as soon as I can. Also I'm hoping an iPhone release before xMas, and a 6G iPod sometime after MacWorld.

steve_hill4
Sep 14, 2006, 06:09 AM
Microsoft's "downfall" has been of their own making. They have completely lost their way on every front since 2001. I think to turn it around will take a massive boardroom and upper-management clearout, but sadly the board members and upper-management own such huge chunks of the company that's never going to happen. To top it off, they put a salesman in charge. Anyone who knows the history of Apple knows how well that works :rolleyes:
True, but again, if Apple don't amke the right decisions now, I see any failure as their own fault. So far I don't see any signs of them making decisions that bad, but if they continue to improve and don't soon bring out some reasonably priced, revolutionary products, they could soon start sowing the seeds of their downfall in key product areas.

iTV will be $299, which is 160 converted. The Airport Express here is 89, so not much of a difference. However, that $299 is before tax and since the AE is $129, we can probably expect a 199 price point here. To me, that's probably just a little bit more than most would want to pay for this functionality. If that was $299 with a decent hard drive built in, (stream and store as well as connecting external devices and transferring from them), it would be awesome. However, this is a work in progress, and we don't know the final specs. Hell, this is only 1G anyway. Give it a few years and it could be a big seller if it had all announced, plus a little bit more.

Either way, same as others said when the 1G iPod was launched, it needs to be compatible with other OSes. The Halo then may extend from this to Macs as it did with the iPod, but if people think that they have to pay $299 plus $999 or more for a Mac, they will be more put off. Let them see the ease of use, the reliability and when their iTV doesn't work and it turns out their PC has crashed, they may start to think even more "Mac".

Eraserhead
Sep 14, 2006, 06:20 AM
The 5.5G iPod is a bit weak, but it adds improvement where the iPod needs it..its now cheaper then a Creative Zen(or what every they are calling their Mp3 player that fights the iPod) The Nano is fixing its biggest problem..scratches, and now its cheaper, it broke then the 1k limit the old Nano had and color,people love those colors. I love the new Shuffle, keeps the simply uses feel, but got a lot smaller.

The competition against the iPod is much weaker now than when the 3G iPod was around, then you could get a Zen xTra for 150 (vs 300 for a 20GB iPod) it had a larger hard drive (30GB vs 20GB), better on-the-go playlist support, scratch resistance, more music features (previewing songs for one), and better sound quality. Admittedly it had a worse UI, and worse software to copy the music onto the device, and was larger, but still it was a good deal, especially if you didn't have much money.

Now iTunes is a lot better than the competition, (better in every regard than WMP 11 beta, which isn't even out yet), and the Zen Vision M (the competition) has an FM Radio, DivX/xVid support, Voice Recording (though the sound quality is rubbish) and a power adapter, though it still has worse software to copy the music on, a worse UI, and is twice the size of the iPod. It also costs 5 more than the iPod on amazon.co.uk, I don't think Apple is dead or dying any time soon.

MacSA
Sep 14, 2006, 06:24 AM
This story is total bollocks.. the editor just said to this guy... "wite me something negative"

Hardly a crumbling empire, its still being built:

Wall Street warms to Apple's iPod/iTunes news
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15859

Apple is fastest-growing US retailer
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15864

Apple support gets Which? thumbs-up
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15860

Apple upgraded by Credit Suisse on stellar MacBook sales
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2030

Apple may hit majestic 1M mark for notebook shipments
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2031

Based on rising estimates and a view that existing and forthcoming products are likely to create earnings power in excess of $4, Merrill Lynch has increased its price target on shares of Apple Computer from $72 to $88.
http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2046

These are just from the last few days.

iJaz
Sep 14, 2006, 08:10 AM
FUD! :mad:

solvs
Sep 15, 2006, 01:11 AM
I don't think anyone's expectations are too high
I think those who read rumors sites were. Everyone else I've shown them to think they're cool. Or don't care. For those expecting revolutionary, you will be disappointed. For those who thought they'd just be evolutionary, like me for example, I think they're fine. I'm sure Apple has something cool they're working on, but these are a nice stop gap before the holidays. Not that I plan on updating any time soon, my iPod is working fine and I see no need for video.

But those who were going to buy a new iPod, I'm sure these are fine. Not great. But fine.

chatin
Sep 15, 2006, 07:34 AM
I disagree completely! What the author missed is that price points are coming down across the board.

LOWER PRICES will drive demand. Getting the price down, and quality up, has been Apple's biggest accomplishment as of late.

The isn't a compnay in the world that can innovate and drive prices lower in the same breath!

And Steve's "reality distortion feild seemed to reach into the future for ammo!" Funny but not necessary. The prices will sell themselves if they go low enough.

10 million iPod shuffles! I rest my case! :D