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MacRumors
Mar 31, 2003, 08:21 AM
RailHeadDesign.com (http://www.railheaddesign.com/) details many fixes in the latest Mac OS X 10.2.5 seed.



Ambrose Chapel
Mar 31, 2003, 08:34 AM
I'm surprised there is nothing about fixing notebook battery drains, given all the problems users reported after 10.2.4

MrMacMan
Mar 31, 2003, 08:44 AM
Score I was looking foward to a couple of thoses fixes.
:D

who else thinks this will be the last release before 10.3?

dricci
Mar 31, 2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
who else thinks this will be the last release before 10.3?

I doubt it, we'll probably get to at least 10.2.6. I really hope Apple hold off on 10.3 for a while. A lot of people, especially officies and schools are *JUST* getting over from 10.1 or OS 9. For the sake of not pissing off customers with a required yearly update (which, face it, will pretty much be required. look how much stuff doesn't work with 10.1 now), I hope they slow it down a bit.

chmorley
Mar 31, 2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by dricci
I doubt it, we'll probably get to at least 10.2.6. I really hope Apple hold off on 10.3 for a while. A lot of people, especially officies and schools are *JUST* getting over from 10.1 or OS 9. For the sake of not pissing off customers with a required yearly update (which, face it, will pretty much be required. look how much stuff doesn't work with 10.1 now), I hope they slow it down a bit. Sounds like you're thinking it will be a paid update. I'm not sure that's at all clear yet, as the 10.0.0.4-->10.1 update was free (or $20 if you couldn't get one from your local Apple store).

We'll see...

Chris

j33pd0g
Mar 31, 2003, 09:44 AM
I hope this update doesn't break to much stuff. As for "panther", I hope the entire metal interface rumor is bogus.

howard
Mar 31, 2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by dricci
I doubt it, we'll probably get to at least 10.2.6. I really hope Apple hold off on 10.3 for a while. A lot of people, especially officies and schools are *JUST* getting over from 10.1 or OS 9. For the sake of not pissing off customers with a required yearly update (which, face it, will pretty much be required. look how much stuff doesn't work with 10.1 now), I hope they slow it down a bit.

i care vaguely see your reasoning but no they should definitely not slow down! making the os better and better every year is fantastic! this way they'll get ahead of there game instead of behind. there improving there product tremendously and all the time. imagine where we'd be if moto did the same with its processors.

DaveGee
Mar 31, 2003, 10:24 AM
10.3 will be a paid update... anyone who thinks different is just kidding themselves. Over the past few years Apple has turned out one 'full pay' OS update every year... For 2003 it'll be 10.3.

Dave

Mlobo01
Mar 31, 2003, 02:23 PM
you can go to macFixit or macinTouch for some possible fixes, the one I tried was to assign a new user and move all my stuff to that new user, the battery is now working normally, some others recommend zapping the PRAM, Zapping the power management button aswell, read for some good advice. I also left a post about changing my download habits when it comes to new upgrades, I disconnect the battery and just have it on power adapter, then re-instate the battery, new upgrades can be affecting the new
rechargers somehow or just be corrupting the power Mgmt. files. Apple is aware of the issue.
(now it gives me 4-4.5 hours of normal use, 3 hours DVD playback on iBook 800)

cc bcc
Mar 31, 2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by DaveGee
10.3 will be a paid update... anyone who thinks different is just kidding themselves. Over the past few years Apple has turned out one 'full pay' OS update every year... For 2003 it'll be 10.3.

Dave

I agree. Apple needs all the money it can get for new R&D. Selling 1 million copies of 10.3 or what number it'll recieve means 100 million dollars. This won't be a free update, why would it be? It's not going to be a bug fix release, it will have many new features I'm sure.

shadowfax
Apr 1, 2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by DaveGee
10.3 will be a paid update... anyone who thinks different is just kidding themselves. Over the past few years Apple has turned out one 'full pay' OS update every year... For 2003 it'll be 10.3.

Dave

If you read the evidence and arguments other users have posted, you should see that people who disagree with this assertion are not kidding themselves; they actually have some pretty reasonable arguments.

that said, i am thinking the way apple is going and the hype they are making pretty well implies a paid update.

melchior
Apr 1, 2003, 08:34 PM
yes, there are good arguments as to why it should not be a paid update. people are still kidding themselves if they think this will be a free update. they may wish it was free. they may think of a million good reasons why it should be free, but they are kidding themselves if they think it will be free. (i would say an upgrade price is possible though, unlikely)

that said, i hope it is a paid update. software is what apple is good at. they support their aging hardware specs with their software. i use apple because of apple's saoftware. apple makes their money from hardware, they have to lever their users into buying that hardware with their software because it's the software that is actually good. i would be happy to see apple move away from this model and to a healthier, more sustainable model of selling products for what they're worth. thus, $129 for panther is a bargain in my mind.

AllenPSU
Apr 1, 2003, 08:52 PM
I wouldn't mind paying for 10.3, but i would really like to see OS X come with some standard features like a disk defrag utility and fax software... especially if you have an apple internal modem.

psxndc
Apr 2, 2003, 01:14 AM
kidding myself or not, I'm going to be unbelievably pissed if this is a paid upgrade. I develop software for a living, so I know you need to pay for development. But there's something to be said about treating your customers right. Breakdown of my experience as a switcher:

June 2002 - $1575 iBook, my first and so far only Mac. (from Apple store. Want to show my support for them)

Julyish 2002 - Apple switches from iTools/etc to .Mac. Wants $100, I don't buy it because....

August 2002 - $130 - Jaguar upgrade (3 months after switching). No upgrade price or offer. Apple reps tell me that the OS coupons are good for going from 10.1.4 to 10.1.5.

January 2003 - $250 - iBook dies. Apple support won't troubleshoot it over the phone since I'm past my 90 day phone support warranty. Coerces me to buy Applecare. Then tells me that they'll charge me $50 to keep the data on the hard drive unless it's absolutely not the HD that is broken. They charge me, but then reimburse me.

March/April 2003 - find out I might have to pay for yet another upgrade about a year after I paid for the last one.

C'mon. This is not even taking into consideration (not apple's fault, totally my own) that I had to shell out $80 for a new AC adapter after my fiancee tripped over it and mangled the connector. $80 for _an_AC_Adapter_????

As a switcher, I think Apple should throw me a frickin' bone here. Not even one year and I've invested and additional $460 into my $1575 laptop. A whole 1/4 what I paid for it. That's crap. And that's not including whatever Panther will cost. And please, please please don't give me "Well you don't _have_ to upgrade" because that's crap too. Most of the software out there requires Jaguar now. The same will probably be true for 10.3. Sorry, but treat your customers right. If iLife hadn't been a free upgrade, I would have switched back. Seriously. I can't take the gouging.

That all being said, I will and do, pay for software. I buy the OpenBSD project's CD every other time, I've registered the 5 or so shareware apps I use consistently, and I support Apple in 90% it's endeavors. But cut me a little slack. I don't have $$ oozing out of my ears, especially in this economy. I bought 10.2, give me a discount on 10.3.

-p

bombensington
Apr 2, 2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by psxndc
January 2003 - $250 - iBook dies. Apple support won't troubleshoot it over the phone since I'm past my 90 day phone support warranty. Coerces me to buy Applecare.

As a switcher, I think Apple should throw me a frickin' bone here. Not even one year and I've invested and additional $460 into my $1575 laptop. A whole 1/4 what I paid for it.

you should have known and been prepared for what would've happen had you not had applecare and needed tech support. that $250 could've gotten you apple care in the first place.

it's not apple's fault that you chose to ignore their suggestions (and i know they suggested it if you bought it at an apple store) to get applecare...

ibookin'
Apr 2, 2003, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by psxndc
kidding myself or not, I'm going to be unbelievably pissed if this is a paid upgrade. I develop software for a living, so I know you need to pay for development. But there's something to be said about treating your customers right. Breakdown of my experience as a switcher:

June 2002 - $1575 iBook, my first and so far only Mac. (from Apple store. Want to show my support for them)

Julyish 2002 - Apple switches from iTools/etc to .Mac. Wants $100, I don't buy it because....

August 2002 - $130 - Jaguar upgrade (3 months after switching). No upgrade price or offer. Apple reps tell me that the OS coupons are good for going from 10.1.4 to 10.1.5.

January 2003 - $250 - iBook dies. Apple support won't troubleshoot it over the phone since I'm past my 90 day phone support warranty. Coerces me to buy Applecare. Then tells me that they'll charge me $50 to keep the data on the hard drive unless it's absolutely not the HD that is broken. They charge me, but then reimburse me.

March/April 2003 - find out I might have to pay for yet another upgrade about a year after I paid for the last one.

C'mon. This is not even taking into consideration (not apple's fault, totally my own) that I had to shell out $80 for a new AC adapter after my fiancee tripped over it and mangled the connector. $80 for _an_AC_Adapter_????

As a switcher, I think Apple should throw me a frickin' bone here. Not even one year and I've invested and additional $460 into my $1575 laptop. A whole 1/4 what I paid for it. That's crap. And that's not including whatever Panther will cost. And please, please please don't give me "Well you don't _have_ to upgrade" because that's crap too. Most of the software out there requires Jaguar now. The same will probably be true for 10.3. Sorry, but treat your customers right. If iLife hadn't been a free upgrade, I would have switched back. Seriously. I can't take the gouging.

That all being said, I will and do, pay for software. I buy the OpenBSD project's CD every other time, I've registered the 5 or so shareware apps I use consistently, and I support Apple in 90% it's endeavors. But cut me a little slack. I don't have $$ oozing out of my ears, especially in this economy. I bought 10.2, give me a discount on 10.3.

-p


-iBook 500 DVD with AppleCare: $1917 with tax

-Jaguar update: $69 (education discount)

-iBook needs repair on DVD Drive and casing from drop: $690 (covered under insurance)

-Using a Mac instead of a PC: priceless

What I am saying is that I feel that paying a lot of money for higher quality stuff is worth it. The PC laptops I would have bought at the time (and paid almost as much for) would not have been nearly as good, and dropping that probably would have cost me (well, the insurance company, always buy your big-ticket stuff with a good credit card :D) $1000+ or the laptop itself (it still amazes me that the iBook even survived such a drop).

Apple has "thrown me a frickin' bone" several times, having replaced my power adapter when I lost it at the Apple Store, always having courteous and knowledgable people ready to talk to me, and replacing my iBook because I was unhappy with the job the techs were doing when they fixed my machine, not to mention the free copy of Keynote I got just for attending the SJ Keynote at MWSF.

I have found Apple the best computer company of all that I've had to deal with in terms of satisfying my needs as a picky computer user, and I plan to continue to buy their products, including Panther, even if it costs another $129.

A happy iBook and iPod owner (the iMac is laoned to me). By the way, I'm a switcher too.

AppleMatt
Apr 2, 2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by bombensington
you should have known and been prepared for what would've happen had you not had applecare and needed tech support. that $250 could've gotten you apple care in the first place.

it's not apple's fault that you chose to ignore their suggestions (and i know they suggested it if you bought it at an apple store) to get applecare...

Sorry, but no, you don't expect a laptop to die within months of buying it.

When a store offers me an extended warrenty, I ask "Why, will it break after a year? I am sure you can guess what they say.

AppleMatt

psxndc
Apr 2, 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by bombensington
you should have known and been prepared for what would've happen had you not had applecare and needed tech support. that $250 could've gotten you apple care in the first place.

it's not apple's fault that you chose to ignore their suggestions (and i know they suggested it if you bought it at an apple store) to get applecare...

*ahem* That $250 was spent _buying_ Applecare since I still had the option (w/in 1 year of purchase).

I figured "Hey, my notebook died 6 months after buying it. If it does this every 6 months for the next 2.5 years, then I'm covered". It still pisses me off that I felt the need to buy it since my almost $1600 investement went belly up after only half a year.

I should also explain that the reason I am mad is because I _love_ my iBook and I really like what Apple offers me. It's because of how much I like them that the gouging hurts so much. If I bought a Gateway and didn't like them, fine. I can just go buy a Dell. If Apple pisses me off, I have no real alternative because I don't feel like there is a decent one. OS X is a great OS. My iBook is a great little computer. I don't want to switch to another company. And I feel that Apple knows this and takes advantage of it to some degree.

-p

bombensington
Apr 3, 2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by psxndc
*ahem* That $250 was spent _buying_ Applecare since I still had the option (w/in 1 year of purchase).

ahh. misinterpretation on my part then. i thought you meant that you spent the $250 on tech support over the phone...since after 90 days it's $50/incident. soooo oops, my bad. i'm sorry for that.

however, i will say that with a laptop, applecare is still not too bad a thing. not everything is perfect, which you now know...and applecare can be a great thing if something ever happened. plus...you can call up tech support for 3 years on anything. new os, any apple programs (minus final cut pro and dvd studio pro), anything...i know people that work for the apple store who still call 1.800.apl.care for questions.

LordJohnWhorfin
Apr 4, 2003, 05:20 PM
If you develop software for a living, then you should be a registered Apple developer. For $500/year, you get access to the seeds, tools, developer CDs and DVDs, latest OS, and even a 5 user server license. A no brainer.

chmorley
Apr 4, 2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by DaveGee
10.3 will be a paid update... anyone who thinks different is just kidding themselves. Over the past few years Apple has turned out one 'full pay' OS update every year... For 2003 it'll be 10.3.

Dave Funny. You just made that up, and chose to believe it. :)

Apple has been on a very consistent schedule for several years of 1 'full pay' update every 18 months or so. This is well-detailed if you check the "whiner" threads around the time of Jaguar's release. Just because you wrote it doesn't mean it's true--it just means you haven't been paying attention and made some sht up for fun.

I am seven feet tall.

You're right--that's fun.
:)

Chris

DaveGee
Apr 4, 2003, 09:30 PM
"haven't been paying attention"?!?!?!?

Okay brain trust, let's try it this way.

2nd half of 1997 - Pay For 8.0
2nd half of 1998 - Pay For 8.5
2nd half of 1999 - Pay For 9.0
2nd half of 2000 - Pay For Beta 10.0
1st half of 2001 - Pay For Final 10.0 - 2nd half of 2001 - 'free 10.1' *
2nd half of 2002 - Pay For 10.2
2nd half of 2003 - Pay For 10.3

(*) Most say 10.1 should have been 10.0 final but was 'pushed' into releasing it early (for a few reasons)

Gee.... it sure as hell looks to me like ONE PAID OS UPDATE EACH YEAR!!!

If OS X wasn't so DELAYED here is how things would have looked.

2nd half of 1997 - Pay For 8.0
2nd half of 1998 - Pay For 8.5
2nd half of 1999 - Pay For 9.0
2nd half of 2000 - Pay For 10.0
2nd half of 2001 - Pay For 10.1
2nd half of 2002 - Pay For 10.2
2nd half of 2003 - Pay For 10.3

Apple just couldn't get X out in the time they needed/wanted hence we had a single '18 month hickup' in the time line.

Dave