MacBook Pro Upgrade At Photokina?

[ct-scan]

...the processor really does not matter.

And what industry do you work in where the speed of your computer doesn't matter????
(maybe I'm a little jealous)

[unstatusthequo]

the processor really does not matter.

Um, WHAT?

[dmglover]

I finally ordered my MacBook Pro after no announce at Photokina, even though I have been waiting for next Tuesday as long as many of you. Being without a notebook was affecting my ability to get things done.

I called to get an update on the estimated shipping date. My order information shows Oct 2nd as the ship date and Oct 4th as arrival.
I called to see if I could get it shipped sooner. They told me it was coming from China since I got the glossy display and the 7200 rpm hard drive.

What's the chance it has the Merom processor?

[jfsouza]

Um, WHAT?
Talk about taking things out of context... they can both have the same processor and one can still be of significant higher value than the other given the list of features I listed above. Usually the MBP TOL will have a faster version of that chip which the MB does not have...

[ct-scan]

What's the chance it has the Merom processor?

Zero to none...

[ergle2]

And because having their pro-line have a worse processor than their consumer line is completely illogical? :eek:

I was meaning as opposed to simultaneously, which was what the poster I was replying to had suggested would be the case.

[unstatusthequo]

Talk about taking things out of context... they can both have the same processor and one can still be of significant higher value than the other given the list of features I listed above. Usually the MBP TOL will have a faster version of that chip which the MB does not have...

My point was that having a 64 bit processor in a MacBook while absent in the MacBook Pro is odd... as in:

MacBook Merom != MacBook Pro Yonah.

[AlphaAnt]

And what industry do you work in where the speed of your computer doesn't matter????
(maybe I'm a little jealous)
I think I agree with him. I just want an update. Something new, not the same thing they've been putting out for most of a year now, with the same prices they had back when the Yonah chip was the "top of the line" notebook processor.

I think I would be somewhat upset if after all this waiting it just turns out to be a processor upgrade and nothing else. I would probably take Multimedia's advice and buy a low-end MB (Yonah or Merom) and hold out until Santa Rosa.

[richard4339]

I finally ordered my MacBook Pro after no announce at Photokina, even though I have been waiting for next Tuesday as long as many of you. Being without a notebook was affecting my ability to get things done.

I called to get an update on the estimated shipping date. My order information shows Oct 2nd as the ship date and Oct 4th as arrival.
I called to see if I could get it shipped sooner. They told me it was coming from China since I got the glossy display and the 7200 rpm hard drive.

What's the chance it has the Merom processor?

I ordered mine the same day. It shipped this morning, and the order details show the same specs as what they were when I ordered them.

[Apple Corps]

Multimedia, you have serioulsy been holding together morale in this thread. Your positive reaffirmation that Apple will release C2D updates gives us all something to hang on to. Thank you very much.

Yeah - its called KOOLAID :D :D :D

[Neuroguy]

Yeah - its called KOOLAID :D :D :D


I love Apple-flavored KoolAid

[Apple Corps]

I love Apple-flavored KoolAid

Well - I'm ready to purchase the real thing whenever they get around to serving it up - soooooooooooooooon we hope.

[dmglover]

I ordered mine the same day. It shipped this morning, and the order details show the same specs as what they were when I ordered them.

Really, well that is very interesting that you got yours so quick? I ordered mine yesterday. Did you have the same original ship and delivery dates as mine? Oct 2 ship, Oct 4 deliver?

[ThunderLounge]

The big announcement, of an incremental upgrade (not even to version 2) of Aperture seems like a kind of silly reason to have a keynote. Its not a new product, not an enormous improvement, is a free upgrade, and didn't even make it to the front page of the website.

Actually, I think it is kind of a big deal. They put in a lot of effort on packing in some 20+ new features, as well as fixing some other issues from the previous.

On top of that, they're giving it away as a free upgrade?


I think that says a lot, really.

It would be like saying previous OS X users can upgrade to 10.5 for free, on a smaller scale of course though.


Looking at it, it's essentially the same thing.

Before someone comes out and flames me for this, just hear me out.




In software versioning, the world tends to increase the primary # only for huge changes.

For example, OS9 -> OS X, or FCSP 4 -> 5. etc.


The secondary update is increased for substantial improvements within the scope of the current primary version #.

For example, 10.2 -> 10.3 -> 10.4 -> 10.5
While improvements and innovations are made, they're still all OS X.


Apple tends to keep the same methodology for their other software lines as well.

So really, for them to bump Aperture up to 1.5, from 1.2 (or was it 1.1.x?), is a pretty significant update and improvement.


And they're letting users upgrade for free.


So, to the photography world, yes it is a big deal.


Of course, not near as big as announcing an updated notebook line. ;)

[tteerts]

WE are not gonna get C2D this year. Give it up.:mad:

"ARE TOO!"
"AM NOT!"
"ARE TOO!"
"AM NOT!"

:)

Only the shadow knows, but he won't tell....

[manic]

Really, well that is very interesting that you got yours so quick? I ordered mine yesterday. Did you have the same original ship and delivery dates as mine? Oct 2 ship, Oct 4 deliver?

Can you tell when they were manufactured? If they left china last week we can give up hope on getting C2Ds for at least a month

[dmglover]

Can you tell when they were manufactured? If they left china last week we can give up hope on getting C2Ds for at least a month

I will let you know when it comes in. I just thought it was strange at this point in the MacBook Pro product cycle for it to be coming from China.

[Reach]

iWeb, iPhoto, iDVD, Pages and Keynote all updated in Sofware Update to support Aperture 1.5 now btw, while we're on the subject. :)

[rectangular]

I will let you know when it comes in. I just thought it was strange at this point in the MacBook Pro product cycle for it to be coming from China.

I don't know this for sure, but I assume that since Apple can produce multiple products at the same time, macbook, macbook pro, ipods, imac, mac pro, that they will also be able to simutaneously make the new merom macbook pro.

So, for those of you who are buying macbook pro's now... imagine if the one you ordered was built only a few feet away from the new merom version? Heh. That thought alone makes me want to wait. Although I am not pressed to upgrade at the moment, but I do plan on getting a new c2d macbook pro.

[Multimedia]

I always figured they'd do the MBP first, then have a gap, then do the much-faster-selling MacBook -- purely because Merom supplies won't be so tight as time passes.ME 2.And because having their pro-line have a worse processor than their consumer line is completely illogical? :eek:Worse but faster. But I agree.Not really. When you consider that the MBP is bigger than the MB, has more features, more powerful components (i.e. videocard) etc., and its made from aluminum vs. plastic; the processor really does not matter.Plus the MB speeds will not change anyway - only the size of the 2GHz L2 shared cache doubles up to 4MB which will a HUGE performance improvement and a much larger incentive to avoid the 1.83GHz Merom wihich retains the same meager 2MB L2 shared cache it already has.

[manic]

I don't know this for sure, but I assume that since Apple can produce multiple products at the same time, macbook, macbook pro, ipods, imac, mac pro, that they will also be able to simutaneously make the new merom macbook pro.

So, for those of you who are buying macbook pro's now... imagine if the one you ordered was built only a few feet away from the new merom version? Heh. That thought alone makes me want to wait. Although I am not pressed to upgrade at the moment, but I do plan on getting a new c2d macbook pro.

Our suspicion is based on the premise that it is unlikely YMBPs would still be manufactured if they were already producing MMBPs. If his machine was built, say, sept 20th, then that could be evidence that apple has not yet started building MMBPs. At one point, theyll stop manufacturing YMBPs, wait till inventory clears, and then unleash the merom.

I wouldnt be surprised if the macbooks were updated before the MBPs, though. I know a lot of people think this wouldnt make sense, but if theyre not finished with the redesign of the MBP, they might start selling MMBs. MMBPs would follow shortly, though.

At this point, though, its up in the air, really. Im going mad with the speculation, scrounging the internet for any bit of info I can get, and only ending up with the same old articles ive read time and time again. More than ever, if you need the stinking thing, get it. I dont even care anymore if the new model comes out the week after. Ill be in the US in oct and im getting it the day the plane lands.

[manic]

incentive to avoid the 1.83GHz Merom wihich retains the same meager 2MB L2 shared cache it already has.

calling 2MB cache meager makes me chuckle :p . I was not so long ago I had a 256kb Pentium and envyed the almighty 1MB the soaraway G4s had. I realize that youre comparing it with the 4MB and agree that best to steer clear of the crippled 1.83

[ergle2]

calling 2MB cache meager makes me chuckle :p . I was not so long ago I had a 256kb Pentium and envyed the almighty 1MB the soaraway G4s had. I realize that youre comparing it with the 4MB and agree that best to steer clear of the crippled 1.83

Irony intentional? :)

(that "crippled" 1.83GHz Merom probably pretty close to matches current 2.0GHz Yonahs...)

[jhande]

Not to rain on the parade, but did anyone notice this tidbit:

"Before embarking on its next-generation notebooks in 2007, Apple later this year will refresh both its MacBook and MacBook Pro lines with Intel's new Core 2 Duo mobile processors." Meaning no new enclosures/design with the C2D upgrade :(

From Flash Laptop article on AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092)

[generik]

Not to rain on the parade, but did anyone notice this tidbit:

"Before embarking on its next-generation notebooks in 2007, Apple later this year will refresh both its MacBook and MacBook Pro lines with Intel's new Core 2 Duo mobile processors." Meaning no new enclosures/design with the C2D upgrade :(

From Flash Laptop article on AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092)

Yes, more waiting.

[tteerts]

Yes, more waiting.

Well that is good news/bad news, right? It would be a (hopefully) sooner release of notebooks with Merom but a longer wait for other goodies...

[deputy_doofy]

Yes, more waiting.

lol

Yes, well, I'm certainly not going to wait for flash memory in a laptop. I'm sure by the time I buy my NEXT, next laptop, it'll be commonplace.

[daneoni]

I was thinking i could get by with my PB at school for a while and while 95% of the IT system is comfortable with Macs...specifically Firefox. There are still key systems that EXPLICITLY want windows. Now if Apple had gotten their head outta their A**es i'd be ordering a CTO MBP pro now and dual-booting or paralleling windows on it and there'd be no issues but NOOOOO! we have to wait and wait and wait and wait and......

Now i'm torn, i know the Notebook line update is dangerously close, but the more time i hold off the more time i have to spend in my Library using Dell PCs (Celeron) to get work done urgh. I'd like to be able to work in the comfort of my own machine, desktop or notebook without constantly checking time and looking over my shoulder incase someone waiting to use a terminal

Maybe i should just get a mini to hold me off....or an iMac. Wait which do you guys think would have a better resale value? iMac? cos i'll be selling it off immediately updates are announce.

[jhande]

Well that is good news/bad news, right? It would be a (hopefully) sooner release of notebooks with Merom but a longer wait for other goodies...

Well, it makes me feel better about having ordered a MB to compensate for not getting the C2D MBP this week. ;) I wouldn't have been able to wait until Jan/Feb/Mar.

[ct-scan]

I was thinking i could get by with my PB at school for a while and while 95% of the IT system is comfortable with Macs...specifically Firefox. There are still key systems that EXPLICITLY want windows. Now if Apple had gotten their head outta their A**es i'd be ordering a CTO MBP pro now and dual-booting or paralleling windows on it and there'd be no issues but NOOOOO! we have to wait and wait and wait and wait and......

Now i'm torn, i know the Notebook line update is dangerously close, but the more time i hold off the more time i have to spend in my Library using Dell PCs (Celeron) to get work done urgh. I'd like to be able to work in the comfort of my own machine, desktop or notebook without constantly checking time and looking over my shoulder incase someone waiting to use a terminal

Maybe i should just get a mini to hold me off....or an iMac. Wait which do you guys think would have a better resale value? iMac? cos i'll be selling it off immediately updates are announce.

Running VirtualPC for a couple weeks wouldn't kill you...although you may want to kill your computer. Hopefully you'd find a way where you wouldn't have to pay for such a program. ;)

[tteerts]

Well, it makes me feel better about having ordered a MB to compensate for not getting the C2D MBP this week. ;) I wouldn't have been able to wait until Jan/Feb/Mar.

I don't blame you in the least. I'm sure you'll enjoy the MB from the second you have it well after the Merom versions do make their way out, whenever that eventually happens.

[Multimedia]

Maybe i should just get a mini to hold me off....or an iMac. Wait which do you guys think would have a better resale value? iMac? cos i'll be selling it off immediately updates are announce.iMac 'cause it's already C2D. What about a $949 1.83GHz MacBook from the Refurb SAVE page? You will be able to resell it for no less than $800 - maybe even the whole $949.

[ct-scan]

iMac 'cause it's already C2D. What about a $949 1.83GHz MacBook from the Refurb SAVE page? You will be able to resell it for no less than $800 - maybe even the whole $949.

Wow! I can't believe that a refurb 1.83GHz MB is $50 less than a refurb iBook 1.42GHz!
Who would buy the iBook?!?

[Multimedia]

Wow! I can't believe that a refurb 1.83GHz MB is $50 less than a refurb iBook 1.42GHz!
Who would buy the iBook?!?Yeah some of those prices are quite out of line with reality. :eek: :rolleyes: :confused: :)

[bwv1060]

Well, it makes me feel better about having ordered a MB to compensate for not getting the C2D MBP this week. ;) I wouldn't have been able to wait until Jan/Feb/Mar.

Though I'd like to wait for the C2D update to the MBP, and maybe even a redesign, I'm going to pull the trigger on a MB refurb. I think I'll wait for my bonus in Feb and sell it or pass it on to my GF. Perhaps by then the addition of a free OS upgrade in a new MBP will help offset some of the loss in the MB resale.

Anyway, add me to the ranks of yet another switcher.

[ergle2]

lol

Yes, well, I'm certainly not going to wait for flash memory in a laptop. I'm sure by the time I buy my NEXT, next laptop, it'll be commonplace.

Vista - at least in the Betas, but I see no reason it wouldn't stay - can do the ReadyBoost thang (the MS name for the flashmem tech) from most USB thumbsticks (it checks their speed first).

It'll be interesting to see if a future MacOS X supports that or requires a system with the flash to be onboard -- after all, Apple could well benefit more from requiring the latter, since hardware's where they make their money. Yes, that's terribly cynical of me... :)

It's especially interesting to me because Robson is the only thing Santa Rosa offers that I find of any real interest.

[jfsouza]

Ha! I just realized Wii have something else to look forward to before Thankgiving...

[generik]

Well if AI's rumours are true... no redesign for the next coming update = what's the point?

Quite honestly I don't really care too much about Merom, but more about the latches and the HD swop panel.

[mrdice87]

Dell still hasn't shipped out machines yet


Just because you can't get a dell shipped tomorrow doesn't mean earlier orders aren't already shipping... Dell has to custom build all of their machines. I believe the first C2D Dell notebooks shipped last week.

[ct-scan]

Ha! I just realized Wii have something else to look forward to before Thankgiving...

:D Already pre-ordered my copy of Twlight Princess :D

[ergle2]

Well if AI's rumours are true... no redesign for the next coming update = what's the point?

Quite honestly I don't really care too much about Merom, but more about the latches and the HD swop panel.

Other way 'round for me.

Don't care at all about the latch... easy swap HD would be nice but it's not a big deal. Merom, OTOH...

[jfsouza]

:D Already pre-ordered my copy of Twlight Princess :D
Hey is it possible to still pre-order Wii's? I sort of missed the boat in the few hours that Amazon ran out of them lol. But maybe EB Games or EBX?

[ct-scan]

Hey is it possible to still pre-order Wii's? I sort of missed the boat in the few hours that Amazon ran out of them lol. But maybe EB Games or EBX?

Although this is off topic...of Photokina ;)
I'm not aware of any place...but there won't be that large of a demand, Nintendo is a nitche market product. PS3 on the other hand...start lining up...

[daneoni]

iMac 'cause it's already C2D. What about a $949 1.83GHz MacBook from the Refurb SAVE page? You will be able to resell it for no less than $800 - maybe even the whole $949.

Unfortunately i'm in the UK so i can't get that deal.

[azzurri000]

Well if AI's rumours are true... no redesign for the next coming update = what's the point?

Quite honestly I don't really care too much about Merom, but more about the latches and the HD swop panel.

If it's a major redesign coming in the future, then I'm not sure whether I'd want to buy when merom is first implemented either. Ugh.

[generik]

If it's a major redesign coming in the future, then I'm not sure whether I'd want to buy when merom is first implemented either. Ugh.

Alright, I guess this settles it, if no redesign this year then I will just get it in MWSF. If no redesign in MW then I am screwed :D

[azzurri000]

Alright, I guess this settles it, if no redesign this year then I will just get it in MWSF. If no redesign in MW then I am screwed :D

Haha, who would have thought buying a new Mac could be such a science...





... maybe Kevin Rose. At least if we make a mistake, though, there won't be sites created advertising our terrible decision. Thank goodness!

[generik]

Haha, who would have thought buying a new Mac could be such a science...





... maybe Kevin Rose. At least if we make a mistake, though, there won't be sites created advertising our terrible decision. Thank goodness!

That's because Macs are such poor value, hence we need to get the maximum benefit for our buck.

[ergle2]

... when he will also unveil the 8-Core $2999 Dual Clovertown Mac Pro as well as the new 4- Core $1999 Kentsfield Mid-Tower Mac line - my guess-hope-timate.

Hey Multi, Just a quick jump back in time -- Xbit labs has some early benchmarks on the 2.66GHz Kentsfield (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/kentsfield-preview.html) I thought you might be interested in.

[ckodonnell]

Quite honestly I don't really care too much about Merom, but more about the latches and the HD swop panel.

I'm kinda at the opposite end of the spectrum. I care more about an updated CPU than anything else that everyone else seems to be interested in. GPU would be nice, but I'll still settle for the underclocked X1600.

It kind of reminds me of back in college when I bought a PowerBook 3400. I loved that machine, and got great use out of it. 9 months later, Apple introduced the mutant PowerBook G3 in the same enclosure as the 3400. It lasted 6 months until Apple could fit everything into the sleek Wallstreet/Pismo enclosure.

We're kind of at a similar point. Apple needs to get their machines up to next generation chips. This isn't just a speed bump, in many respects, it is VERY similar to the 60X transition to G3, suddenly you've got a whole lot of new hardware bits to work with.

Had I known when I got the 3400 that the G3 was just around the bend, would I have waited? No, probably not. Would I wait now, knowing what I know from experience what generational hardware changes can make? Yep, so here I am.

I guess I don't mind seeing a kind of mutant in-between box like the first PBG3 was, some folks might want to wait for the Wallstreet/Pismo version, but you know what? That's another six months that I can definitely get some use out of. Current gen? Not as much.

[suwandy]

Zero to none...
Based on what?

[generik]

I'm kinda at the opposite end of the spectrum. I care more about an updated CPU than anything else that everyone else seems to be interested in. GPU would be nice, but I'll still settle for the underclocked X1600.

It kind of reminds me of back in college when I bought a PowerBook 3400. I loved that machine, and got great use out of it. 9 months later, Apple introduced the mutant PowerBook G3 in the same enclosure as the 3400. It lasted 6 months until Apple could fit everything into the sleek Wallstreet/Pismo enclosure.

We're kind of at a similar point. Apple needs to get their machines up to next generation chips. This isn't just a speed bump, in many respects, it is VERY similar to the 60X transition to G3, suddenly you've got a whole lot of new hardware bits to work with.

Had I known when I got the 3400 that the G3 was just around the bend, would I have waited? No, probably not. Would I wait now, knowing what I know from experience what generational hardware changes can make? Yep, so here I am.

I guess I don't mind seeing a kind of mutant in-between box like the first PBG3 was, some folks might want to wait for the Wallstreet/Pismo version, but you know what? That's another six months that I can definitely get some use out of. Current gen? Not as much.

Ah yes I can see that point. Personally if there is a radical redesign down the track I will certainly want to hold out for that, or more realistically get a cheap 2nd hand/refurb MBP to tide until then, take a small loss in resale value, and sell it then.

The Albook design has been around for eons, and quite frankly I don't like the design that much, it is nice looking, but not practical for real world use, and hence if the next speedbump does not at least incorporate at least the HD replacement panel (it is one thing about the Albook design that really bugs me, it does not affect my usage profile, but it bugs me... as with the easily dented and scratched case), I'd be glad to just... sit it out completely.

I'd have gotten a Yonah MBP in the past if it had the panel at least, heck, even a PBG4 just to make a point. I do not need that much mobile computing power after all. But I do appreciate the ability to be able to quickly resolve/fix issues with my own computer by myself without having to turn it in to a service centre and have it away for weeks or even months on end.

[Multimedia]

Alright, I guess this settles it, if no redesign this year then I will just get it in MWSF. If no redesign in MW then I am screwed :DHaha, who would have thought buying a new Mac could be such a science...
Well I've been in the no re-design no sale club since day one. They completely redesigned the iBook and not the PowerBook so Duh! It won't take a rocket scientist to tell if the first C2D is a winner or a loser in about one minute.

1. Does it have an Easy Access HD Bay?
2. Does it have more ventilation slots-holes so it'll run cooler?

That's all I'm looking for. All the rest is gravy to me.

[AppliedVisual]

If it's a major redesign coming in the future, then I'm not sure whether I'd want to buy when merom is first implemented either. Ugh.

That's kinda what I started to figure... I've been needing a notebook for some time now, but trying to hold out for the C2D MBP. Got to the point where I really couldn't wait anymore -- I bought a refurb'd MBP 15" 2GHz from Apple. Not a bad deal at all. I already had 2x1GB to put into it that I bought a few weeks back when I saw RAM prices were starting to climb and I swapped out the HDD for a 120GB Hitachi. All in all, I'm very pleased with the unit and I'm into it for less than $1900 after all the taxes and dust have settled. I've only had it three days now though.

I just figured that the price was pretty good and this way I can keep it about a year or dump in when the next major revision does arrive. From all indications, any "refresh" of the MBP this year, will just be a CPU upgrade with a few minor fixes (if needed).

Originally I really was waiting for the C2D MBP because I could use more than 2GB in a system and I was hoping that I could install 2x2GB modules and have the full 4GB addressable. Unfortunately, this won't be possible until Intel ships the Santa Rosa chipset, which will be next February at the earliest according to the latest info. That means March/April before it ships in retail systems. So I'll just be happy with what I just bought until the next major revision of MBP comes along and then I should be able to have my 4GB (maybe more?) and some other updated features. My current system shouldn't lose too much value between now and then, but if it does, it won't matter the thing looks like it will more than pay for itself in no time.

[ergle2]

Unfortunately, this won't be possible until Intel ships the Santa Rosa chipset, which will be next February at the earliest according to the latest info.

One more time, with feeling: "Santa Rosa isn't a chipset, it's a platform". ;)

[coday182]

One more time, with feeling: "Santa Rosa isn't a chipset, it's a platform". ;)
Ok... could you exlpain this whole concept and why it will be better?

[Multimedia]

Hey Multi, Just a quick jump back in time -- Xbit labs has some early benchmarks on the 2.66GHz Kentsfield (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/kentsfield-preview.html) I thought you might be interested in.Thank you. Hope Apple can figure out a home for Kentsfield in 2007.

Meanwhile I'm getting stoked about the upcoming Dual Clovertown 8-core Mac Pros. Gonna be a killer Mac toting 2.33GHz x8 = 18.64GHz of power - almost twice as much as today's 2.66GH x4 = 10.64GHz Mac Pro for no more money than today's 3GHz x4 = 12GHz model, i.e., more than 150% more power across 200% more cores for the same money in only about 4-5 months time - August '06 to January '07 (worst case guess). It's a miracle.

For those of you unfamiliar with all this, Kentsfields may not be paired into 8-core computers - only Clovertowns may do that. So Kentsfield's place is where Conroe is today - nowhere in the Mac landscape.

[ergle2]

Thank you. Hope Apple can figure out a home for Kentsfield in 2007.

Meanwhile I getting stoked about the upcoming Dual Clovertown Mac Pros. Gonna be a killer Mac toting 2.33GHz x8 = 18.64GHz of power - almost twice as much as today's 2.66GH x4 = 10.64GHz Mac Pro for no more money than today's 3GHz x4 = 12GHz model. It's a miracle.

Bear in mind as you add more cores it's a case of diminishing returns, esp. since you're doubling the cores for the same pair of FSBs.

Still, it'll blow the current Woodcrest machines away on the stuff that parrallelizes well, like video encoding.

[dclocke]

I'd be tempted by a black 15.4 MBP. Even though I want something smaller.


That's what she said...

[Bill Gates]

Just because you can't get a dell shipped tomorrow doesn't mean earlier orders aren't already shipping... Dell has to custom build all of their machines. I believe the first C2D Dell notebooks shipped last week.
Not true. A friend of mine has had his Dell C2D notebook for at least 2 weeks now.

[ergle2]

Ok... could you exlpain this whole concept and why it will be better?

It's just my pedantry -- it irks me to keep seeing Santa Rosa described as a chipset when it's not. Yeah, I was being a jerk :)

It's a platform, consisting of a processor (Merom), a chipset (crestline, aka i965 Mobile Express) plus a mobile ICH8 variant, a wifi chipset (kedron) and optionally onboard flash mem (aka Robson technology). Oh, and an optional integreated graphics solution.

Santa Rosa itself offers a few benefits. The ability to have more than 4GB of physical address space was already mentioned. A faster FSB (667 -> 800). The wifi is supposed to be 802.11n, assuming it's ratified in time.

There's also a few other benefits such as remote management (even if the system's off, apparently).

Most of the changes are incremental and probably won't make a huge difference to the user, outside of the flash mem tech. which has a lot of potential, depending on how you work and what software you use.

Of course, others may disagree; that's pure opinion.

[ThunderLounge]

Ok... could you exlpain this whole concept and why it will be better?

Try flipping back at least a few pages in this thread. You'll find at least 5 explanations.

Might be quicker.

[ergle2]

Try flipping back at least a few pages in this thread. You'll find at least 5 explanations.

Might be quicker.

I should stick it in a wiki somewhere... :)

[lolsdaka]

Alright so if there is no new design of MBP is there any chance that they change some small things like a fw800 port on the 15",or express card on the macbook ?

[myke323]

Hmmm... at this point maybe instead of getting (or waiting for) a 15.4" MBP C2D for around $2500, I should just buy a 20" C2D Imac for $1600, then a bit later on buy a MB (either CD of C2D) for around $1300 (total of imac and mp being $2900, only $400 more than the MBP)...

it would be nice to have the portability now, but it's not crucial and I really need a new machine now for work... argh...

[AlphaAnt]

Alright so if there is no new design of MBP is there any chance that they change some small things like a fw800 port on the 15",or express card on the macbook ?

From what I heard, the only reason the FW port on the 15.4" was FW400 and not 800 because the 800 wasn't out yet. I'm 100% sure the new one will include this if there is a redesign. As for the 13" having an Express Card, have you seen inside the 13"? The disassembly instructions are 4 or 5 times longer than the 15" for a reason, believe me. If they took out the internal optical drive, then probably, but at that point they might cut it down to 12" instead.

EDIT: For reference, here's the instructions on MBP disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/Logic-Board

Here's the instructions for MB disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook/Complete-Disassembly

[Multimedia]

Hmmm... at this point maybe instead of getting (or waiting for) a 15.4" MBP C2D for around $2500, I should just buy a 20" C2D Imac for $1600, then a bit later on buy a MB (either CD of C2D) for around $1300 (total of imac and mp being $2900, only $400 more than the MBP)...

it would be nice to have the portability now, but it's not crucial and I really need a new machine now for work... argh...Yes that sounds like a better plan. Hold out for the C2D MB while you break in the C2D iMac and you'll be flyin' high when Leopard ships.

[generik]

Ok... could you exlpain this whole concept and why it will be better?

Nobody said anything about better, it is just progress. It will always be for the better :rolleyes:

Basically with Santa Rosa you get Robson caching, predraft wireless-N, and 800Mhz FSB (very small improvement btw)

The new C2D chips will also have a new pinout so they will no longer fit the existing sockets.

[lolsdaka]

From what I heard, the only reason the FW port on the 15.4" was FW400 and not 800 because the 800 wasn't out yet. I'm 100% sure the new one will include this if there is a redesign. As for the 13" having an Express Card, have you seen inside the 13"? The disassembly instructions are 4 or 5 times longer than the 15" for a reason, believe me. If they took out the internal optical drive, then probably, but at that point they might cut it down to 12" instead.

EDIT: For reference, here's the instructions on MBP disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/Logic-Board

Here's the instructions for MB disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook/Complete-Disassembly


So can't they replace fw400 ports by fw800 ? Is it impossible ?

[generik]

So can't they replace fw400 ports by fw800 ? Is it impossible ?

That chip costs them 50 cents per Macbook Pro, including FW800 will destroy Steve's plan to buy a new yacht... :rolleyes:

[AlphaAnt]

So can't they replace fw400 ports by fw800 ? Is it impossible ?

No, they will include FW800, if they do more than drop in a new chip. If it's the same case with just a new processor, I would say it will probably not have FW800 (though its possible that they make this minor change and no other revisions). Whether or not they include a FW800 is one of the things I'm going to use to decide if I'm going to get a C2D MBP or wait until the Santa Rosa platform, due to the fact that the FW800 upgrade would be a likely tell to upgrades to other parts of the computer.

[Multimedia]

Alright so if there is no new design of MBP is there any chance that they change some small things like a fw800 port on the 15",or express card on the macbook ?I hope so. It's in all the Aluminum 15" PowerBooks since 3 years ago. Was quite a shock to see they'd removed it. But alas the MacBook is not priced to include such advanced features as the Expresscard slot.From what I heard, the only reason the FW port on the 15.4" was FW400 and not 800 because the 800 wasn't out yet. I'm 100% sure the new one will include this if there is a redesign. As for the 13" having an Express Card, have you seen inside the 13"? The disassembly instructions are 4 or 5 times longer than the 15" for a reason, believe me. If they took out the internal optical drive, then probably, but at that point they might cut it down to 12" instead.

EDIT: For reference, here's the instructions on MBP disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/Logic-Board

Here's the instructions for MB disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook/Complete-DisassemblyPardon me AlphaAnt but you have been misinformed Big Time. FW800 has been around for many years and was in every 15" Aluminum PowerBook G4 since 3 years ago when it came to market. It missing in the 15" MacBook Pro was one of the biggest shocks to we veterans.

[generik]

No, they will include FW800, if they do more than drop in a new chip. If it's the same case with just a new processor, I would say it will probably not have FW800 (though its possible that they make this minor change and no other revisions). Whether or not they include a FW800 is one of the things I'm going to use to decide if I'm going to get a C2D MBP or wait until the Santa Rosa platform, due to the fact that the FW800 upgrade would be a likely tell to upgrades to other parts of the computer.

I disagree on this, the 17" MBP has a FW800 port, so they may be using FW800 as a differentiate factor between the 15" and 17". Nevermind the fact that you might need a smaller computer, to Apple the consumer has no needs beyond what they offer!

[lolsdaka]

I disagree on this, the 17" MBP has a FW800 port, so they may be using FW800 as a differentiate factor between the 15" and 17". Nevermind the fact that you might need a smaller computer, to Apple the consumer has no needs beyond what they offer!

Then two fw400 ports on the MB & MBP .............
...
I'm desperate

[ThunderLounge]

I'm still not convinced that there won't be some sort of improvement. There might not be, but adding in a few features that they have made standard on the MB line wouldn't necessarily need a complete redesign. A slight modification, yes, but not to the extent that the AI rumor report at least leads me to conclude is on the horizon.

I at least think that this big redesign would be something that would happen after SR makes its debut, which would be further into '07 sometime, so a minor revision now wouldn't seem out of line.

I guess that is if you consider an easier access HD, FW800 in the 15", and updated GFX minor. I do, and for something major as the AI rumor report mentions, I'd consider that a complete revision/overhaul. (edit) To include enclosure, internal layout, platform, etc. (/edit)

[AlphaAnt]

Pardon me AlphaAnt but you have been misinformed Big Time. FW800 has been around for many years and was in every 15" Aluminum PowerBook G4 since 3 years ago when it came to market. It missing in the 15" MacBook Pro was one of the biggest shocks to we veterans.

My apologies. I was just reiterating things I heard on these here forums. Lesson: don't believe anything you read, especially Mac Rumors Forums.

[ergle2]

I'm still not convinced that there won't be some sort of improvement. There might not be, but adding in a few features that they have made standard on the MB line wouldn't necessarily need a complete redesign. A slight modification, yes, but not to the extent that the AI rumor report at least leads me to conclude is on the horizon.

I at least think that this big redesign would be something that would happen after SR makes its debut, which would be further into '07 sometime, so a minor revision now wouldn't seem out of line.

I guess that is if you consider an easier access HD, FW800 in the 15", and updated GFX minor. I do, and for something major as the AI rumor report mentions, I'd consider that a complete revision/overhaul.

I concur with you on the "minor update" being the things you mention, aside from the easy-access HD. I just don't see them changing the current case.

I can't see them replacing the MacBook case even next year, given it's a pretty new design. Sure, it's in the "style" of the iBook, but it's pretty different -- especially that keyboard.

I have long felt that a new case will appear along with Santa Rosa, since I always figured on SR requiring a redesign anyway -- plus, I think the only reason they didn't replace the case with the MBP's launch was they wanted to use existing "branding" on the first-gen x86 systems so people still thought of them as Macs. I guess they worried there was a risk they could be branded a PC vendor...

[Gurutech]

Soooooo.... IF MBP Merom gets radical design change, doesn't it technically make MBP a rev A?

Oh NOOOOOoooooo.
I don't want to see another thread after Merom update saying "wait for rev B aka Santa Rosa?"

This threads makes me chuckle
:D :D :D

I'm planning to upgrade my current MBP 07 August or September.. so I win! bwaahahahahahah

ps. :)

[ergle2]

Soooooo.... IF MBP Merom gets radical design change, doesn't it technically make MBP a rev A?

Oh NOOOOOoooooo.
I don't want to see another thread after Merom update saying "wait for rev B aka Santa Rosa?"

This threads makes me chuckle
:D :D :D

I'm planning to upgrade my current MBP 07 August or September.. so I win! bwaahahahahahah

ps. :)

So you get to hang out in all the "Penryn by....?" threads ;)

[ThunderLounge]

I concur with you on the "minor update" being the things you mention, aside from the easy-access HD. I just don't see them changing the current case.

I can't see them replacing the MacBook case even next year, given it's a pretty new design. Sure, it's in the "style" of the iBook, but it's pretty different -- especially that keyboard.

I have long felt that a new case will appear along with Santa Rosa, since I always figured on SR requiring a redesign anyway -- plus, I think the only reason they didn't replace the case with the MBP's launch was they wanted to use existing "branding" on the first-gen x86 systems so people still thought of them as Macs. I guess they worried there was a risk they could be branded a PC vendor...

That's a damn good point E. Damn good.

I hadn't even considered it, really. Although I'm not sure that anything they could have done would ever be interpreted as a "PC", but still taking that risk is a big gamble. Especially considering all the brand building that has been done over the years to make sure non-mac users knew they were more than just different.

With the switch to Intel, it is very possible that the general run of the mill consumer that isn't as deep into specific product knowledge, or as technically savvy shall we say, could very well have perceived the switch to Intel as Apple becoming just another "PC".

Definitely an aspect to at least consider, and keeping the initial transition to the new chips looking the same for the most part would make sense to help ease the visual transition.

Add a little bit or a variable with the MB, but not too much, and build that bridge of consistency between the two platforms before they go crazy with new and updated visuals.

[generik]

Well the MBP users have been pretty worn in since Jan, let them go wild and release redesigns already! In time for a christmas buying spree :cool:

[dclocke]

I would really like to see a new design as well, but this article (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2060) scares me...makes me think it may just be a processor swap. There are a few other things I'd really like to see that have been enumerated several times in this thread already. I'm really in a tough position right now. I was really hoping for an updated MBP before buying, but so far no luck. If I knew for a fact that it would be Thanksgiving before they were updated, I would buy one now. But I would hate to buy one, and see an upgrade mid-October (or sooner).

[ct-scan]

This is off topic, but I know people will read it...Woz on Colbert tonight :)

[coday182]

I wonder if apple realized they would have to keep up with the more frequent processor updates once they switched to intel chips. With PPC chips, they didn't upgrade as frequently, and it didn't really matter anyways becuase there weren't really any other computer manufacturers to compete with as far as that chipset goes. Now, though, they have to keep up with the rest of the intel computers in order to stay competitive.

[barkins]

I wonder if apple realized they would have to keep up with the more frequent processor updates once they switched to intel chips. With PPC chips, they didn't upgrade as frequently, and it didn't really matter anyways becuase there weren't really any other computer manufacturers to compete with as far as that chipset goes. Now, though, they have to keep up with the rest of the intel computers in order to stay competitive.

Where were you two weeks ago when we discussed this...? :D

But yes, I agree with you.

[elevatorjazz]

Silent Friday update? hehe

[barkins]

Silent Friday update? hehe

Oh please don't tease me like that! :rolleyes:

---------------------

Here's an interesting article on the topic (http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/09/update_on_64bit.html) by the way, with tid bits of somewhat useful information about the 64-bit MacBookPros.

[azzurri000]

Well I've been in the no re-design no sale club since day one. They completely redesigned the iBook and not the PowerBook so Duh! It won't take a rocket scientist to tell if the first C2D is a winner or a loser in about one minute.

1. Does it have an Easy Access HD Bay?
2. Does it have more ventilation slots-holes so it'll run cooler?

That's all I'm looking for. All the rest is gravy to me.


Those things are also important to me, but I want to feel like I am getting a product that is also competitively specced.

What I meant in my post that you quoted, though, in re: to the buying of a mac being like a science, was that there are so many rumours flying around of black anodized aluminum cases, merom, santa rosa, swappable hd, flash-based laptops, etc. that it's hard to know when one should stop waiting.

Perhaps it is easy for you to easily distinguish a winner, but I guess I'm not sure what I should be waiting for anymore. There will always be something newer and better on the horizon, so it can be tough to pick a time to say, "Hey, this is enough. I can't sacrifice anymore productivity over waiting."

edit: spelling

[richard4339]

*crosses fingers*

My MacBook Pro left Alaska 8 hours ago! Here's to hoping it arrives Friday and not Monday!

Forgive me, I'm happy to have a current MBP and not a new one. Its my first Mac (sorta, I have a Mac now, but its not mine)

[ckodonnell]

A friend's college is selling NEW 15" MBP's with 256MB GFX cards for the same as Apple's current refurb price. "While supplies last."

[ergle2]

*crosses fingers*

My MacBook Pro left Alaska 8 hours ago! Here's to hoping it arrives Friday and not Monday!

Forgive me, I'm happy to have a current MBP and not a new one. Its my first Mac (sorta, I have a Mac now, but its not mine)

Nothing wrong in being happy about getting a new toy :)

[Multimedia]

What I meant in my post that you quoted, though, in re: to the buying of a mac being like a science, was that there are so many rumours flying around of black anodized aluminum cases, merom, santa rosa, swappable hd, flash-based laptops, etc. that it's hard to know when one should stop waiting.

Perhaps it is easy for you to easily distinguish a winner, but I guess I'm not sure what I should be waiting for anymore. There will always be something newer and better on the horizon, so it can be tough to pick a time to say, "Hey, this is enough. I can't sacrifice anymore productivity over waiting."I know this may be hard for you to believe right now given the confusing rain of opinions and misinformation here, but I want you to know that you will be pleasantly surprised to know it when you see it. Your gut will tell you it's the one when it is. :)

[shecky]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)

[Multimedia]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.

OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)I've already thought of this but never posted it and agree with you completely. Excellent call. And I don't think you are reaching at all. Very logical and possible.

[barkins]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)

Boy I hope you're right. :o

[Sopranino]

In the recent Apple Insider report (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092) about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2070) than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino

[Andrew F]

In the recent Apple Insider report (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092) about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2070) than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino

Althouh you made same very interesting points, I don't agree. Apple is already selling C2D desktops and is dug very deep into the Intel world. Even if they wanted to switch hardware supplier, I don't think they could with as much money as they have tied up in it.

[jfsouza]

Well everyone, I went to my local Apple Store just outside of Boulder, CO and personally asked the rep there about C2D updates and he basically said they should be in by the Holiday season.

[S i]

From what I heard, the only reason the FW port on the 15.4" was FW400 and not 800 because the 800 wasn't out yet. I'm 100% sure the new one will include this if there is a redesign. As for the 13" having an Express Card, have you seen inside the 13"? The disassembly instructions are 4 or 5 times longer than the 15" for a reason, believe me. If they took out the internal optical drive, then probably, but at that point they might cut it down to 12" instead.

EDIT: For reference, here's the instructions on MBP disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Pro/Logic-Board

Here's the instructions for MB disassembly:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook/Complete-Disassembly

Very useful, thanks. What I really need now is a mighty mouse cleaning guide. This forum has killed my scroll ball! :(

[jfsouza]

Very useful, thanks. What I really need now is a mighty mouse cleaning guide. This forum has killed my scroll ball! :(

You know speaking of the mighty mouse, you wonder why they chose to use a scroll ball.... i mean scroll balls haven't been used in mice in any way shape or form for years... you'd think the mighty would have used either a wheel or something touch sensitive like the iPod

[barkins]

Well everyone, I went to my local Apple Store just outside of Boulder, CO and personally asked the rep there about C2D updates and he basically said they should be in by the Holiday season.

I've come to the conclusion that the people who work at the Apple Store know as much as we do about this entire fiasco.

[ergle2]

In the recent Apple Insider report (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092) about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

Apple's notoriously secretive. I'd bet cash on us seeing an SR-based MBP.

Apple still hasn't officially announced a C2D-based laptop either -- do you doubt it will happen too?


This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2070) than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

I'm sure they will at some point, but not in the near future. AMD doesn't have the capacity, and their current systems simply aren't terribly competitive -- and they don't currently supply a complete platform.

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

Too expensive, and Apple's big advantage is MacOS X. One of the reasons Apple moved to Intel was to get away from the kinds of costs associated with such things. Plus, Intel wouldn't sign a deal with someone who has sub-5% share worldwide and significantly less in the server market -- which is where the real high margins are.

Beyond this, being able to run Windows on the same hardware is actually a major reason Apple's kit is selling so well right now.

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

Cell wouldn't perform terribly well for general purpose computing. Look at where Intel is going with Kentsfield et al. 4 real cores vs 1 full core and some slaves that are very limited -- especially with the poor yield that Cell reportedly was achieving.

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino

Apple's not that small. They shift serious numbers of laptops.

Apple went with Intel because there were the most viable options for the mobile market, which is the big consumer market today and is still growing.

Apple's uniqueness is that unlike any other PC maker, they also write their own OS and software. Everyone else is making hardware for Windows, and the apps are by MS, Adobe, etc.

Apple's the only one selling to the consumer market that does this. Right there is their uniqueness -- and that's why Dvorak et al claiming Apple will eventually move to Vista is wrong.

[macman2790]

In the recent Apple Insider report (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092) about the Intel developers conference there is the following comment:

...Apple is not listed amongst the PC manufacturers who have committed to the Santa Rosa platform...

This could mean several things:

1) That there may be more weight to this rumour (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2070) than previously thought (recent comment by chief of AMD). Is it possible that we really may see AMD inside Macs?

2) Apple is working with Intel in developing a proprietary platform for the Mac line that would enable Apple to leapfrog the current vanilla PC upgrade cycle and produce an offering that would be unique to Apple?

3) Has IBM come back to Apple with a proposal to use their CELL architecture inside the Mac computers?

If you think about it Apple has always marketed themselves as a "Think Different" company and they may have found that the current Intel roadmap just means that they are only able to offer that which everyone else is offering. (with respect to hardware systems)

Although the Intel roadmap has some fantastic potential, and the Core 2 Duo is no slouch, Apple may be reassessing their decision to go with Intel due to the obvious market demand that Apple keep pace with all of the other PC manufacturers. As commented on in an earlier posting Apple may be too small of a company to do the upgrade cycle every 4-6 months or they may now be looking at it and saying that Intel does not offer enough "uniqueness" for them.

Fascinating, I can't wait to see where Apple is going.......

Sopranino
I see your point on #2. Possibly the macbook pro will get NAND flash ram and possibly their own unique chipset on the next upgrade. After reading about a samsung notebook in another thread that's only available in korea (i think), it already has Flash technology on it. I think apple may have something up its sleeve on this update.

One question on santa rosa though: Will it only run the ultra low voltage meroms which have lower clockspeeds around 1.5 with 800mhz fsb, or will they also run with the current merom clock speeds that should already be in the macbook pro?

[AppliedVisual]

Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)

Well, yes... As you said, next tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter...

The following tuesday would be because their marketing guys were slow on the draw.

The tuesday after that would make sense because Jobs suddenly wants to hold a press event for the MBP update.

The tuesday after that would be optimal for holiday shopping to kick into gear... After all, a lot of retailers feel that the last full week in October is when the big shopping season really begins.

And finally, 10/31 would make sense because once again it plays a huge role with holiday shopping. And what better day to pick if you want to really spook your competition.

OK, it's late and I'm not making much sense....

[S i]

Not to rain on the parade, but did anyone notice this tidbit:

"Before embarking on its next-generation notebooks in 2007, Apple later this year will refresh both its MacBook and MacBook Pro lines with Intel's new Core 2 Duo mobile processors." Meaning no new enclosures/design with the C2D upgrade :(

From Flash Laptop article on AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2092)

I'm kind of hoping that "next generation" there is just referring back to the Intel next-gen plaform mentioned at the start of the article. Kind of hard (or maybe just undesirable?) to believe they will simply swap in a Merom without addressing some of the existing MBP issues.

It's going to look real bad for Apple if the Merom refresh hits the same problems the existing line has had. Apple's detractors made a lot of noise about it the first time around, & it would be even worse the second. No, I'll think positively until I know otherwise, & guess that they're ironing out some issues on top of a chip swap.

I'll probably get a C2D iMac to tide me over until there's an MBP/MB release that suits in any case.

[ergle2]

I see your point on #2. Possibly the macbook pro will get NAND flash ram and possibly their own unique chipset on the next upgrade. After reading about a samsung notebook in another thread that's only available in korea (i think), it already has Flash technology on it. I think apple may have something up its sleeve on this update.

One question on santa rosa though: Will it only run the ultra low voltage meroms which have lower clockspeeds around 1.5 with 800mhz fsb, or will they also run with the current merom clock speeds that should already be in the macbook pro?

Santa Rosa is a platform, not a chipset.

Merom is part of that platform.

[jfsouza]

Well, yes... As you said, next tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter...

The following tuesday would be because their marketing guys were slow on the draw.

The tuesday after that would make sense because Jobs suddenly wants to hold a press event for the MBP update.

The tuesday after that would be optimal for holiday shopping to kick into gear... After all, a lot of retailers feel that the last full week in October is when the big shopping season really begins.

And finally, 10/31 would make sense because once again it plays a huge role with holiday shopping. And what better day to pick if you want to really spook your competition.

OK, it's late and I'm not making much sense....

I still maintain it will be the London Expo, for the MacBooks at least, if the MBPs aren't updated earlier.

[macman2790]

Santa Rosa is a platform, not a chipset.

Merom is part of that platform.
got a little mixed up in my words there i did mean platform though thanks for the correction

[ergle2]

got a little mixed up in my words there i did mean platform though thanks for the correction

My point is, Merom's part of SR, just like Yonah or Merom are part of Napa.

[S i]

You know speaking of the mighty mouse, you wonder why they chose to use a scroll ball.... i mean scroll balls haven't been used in mice in any way shape or form for years... you'd think the mighty would have used either a wheel or something touch sensitive like the iPod

A wheel wouldn't cut it for me - I can't go without horizontal scrolling now I have it. I do think the two finger scrolling on the notebook line is great.

I also have a cordless optical trackman here, but what I don't get about it is the scroll wheel. They could do with dropping the wheel & having the scroll lock switch the trackball to panning mode. What are they thinking?! The driver could easily have some "tolerance" to enable smooth vertical/horizontal scrolling with the trackball (i.e. stops trackball moving page to side when only vertical required). Or am I being dumb here? :confused:

On a positive note, "the ball" is back in business :)

[ergle2]

A wheel wouldn't cut it for me - I can't go without horizontal scrolling now I have it. I do think the two finger scrolling on the notebook line is great.

My current wheel mice do horizontal scrolling... wheel just tilts.

Personally, I dislike the Mighty Mouse. I prefer real microswitched buttons.

Agree with you about the notebook scrolling tho' -- much better than the "zone" stuff on most systems.

[S i]

My current wheel mice do horizontal scrolling... wheel just tilts

Tried the diagonal scrolling on it? :D

[ergle2]

Tried the diagonal scrolling on it? :D

Nope. I rarely use the horizontal, I was just remarking that they did it :)

[S i]

that's why Dvorak et al claiming Apple will eventually move to Vista is wrong.

Frightening prospect :eek: Completely wrong I agree :D

[S i]

Nope. I rarely use the horizontal, I was just remarking that they did it :)

J/k. It's my fault - I really should be respecting the 80 character line length coding conventions ;)

[ergle2]

J/k. It's my fault - I really should be respecting the 80 character line length coding conventions ;)

Heh. Quite.

I'm mostly a keyboard warrior -- my mice are for photoshop and gaming <G>

[S i]

Heh. Quite.

I'm mostly a keyboard warrior -- my mice are for photoshop and gaming <G>

Speaking of keyboards, I've got a beef with the Apple UK keyboard. The return key sticks. On UK keyboards, return is tall & a little wider (rather than wide), & having a switch at top/bottom leaves the key poorly supported if you know what I mean. You've really got to hit it squarely in the middle, else the key won't go down properly.

I'm still not used to where the octothorpe is either, & getting beginning/end of line semi-consistent takes work. Errr....sorry, am being off-topic

[S i]

I still maintain it will be the London Expo, for the MacBooks at least, if the MBPs aren't updated earlier.

I'm thinking about coming back to UK for it. I'm getting a nagging feeling that Merom is a way off yet, & the Expo makes sense. I'm trying to "find my cave" somewhat until they appear :D

[ergle2]

Speaking of keyboards, I've got a beef with the Apple UK keyboard. The return key sticks. On UK keyboards, return is tall & a little wider (rather than wide), & having a switch at top/bottom leaves the key poorly supported if you know what I mean. You've really got to hit it squarely in the middle, else the key won't go down properly.

I'm still not used to where the octothorpe is either, & getting beginning/end of line semi-consistent takes work. Errr....sorry, am being off-topic

You'll hate me, but I use MS keyboards... :)

I like their "ergonomic" wireless keyboards -- I find them a lot more comfortable to use.

[S i]

You'll hate me, but I us MS keyboards... :)

I like their "ergonomic" wireless keyboards -- I find them a lot more comfortable to use.

Not at all! Go with what works I say! Did you have any key remapping issues to get over?

I have an IBM thinkpad ultranav external USB keyboard, which is great, but I couldn't find a way to map a sensible IBM key to act as an apple key. The function key would be ideal, but it wasn't generating codes that were being seen by OS X. There is no Windows key on it. Shame really, as I could really motor on XP/Linux with it, partly due to the trackpoint being at my fingertips.

[FaziBear]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)


Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I agree that being the beginning of the fourth quarter it would make sense to have apple release the new MBP's. At the same time however, if we really think about it, and you can trust me on this people, i work in finance and analyzing the market is my 70 hour a week job, for companies like apple promoting BEFORE the technical start of the fourth quarter would actually lead to the largest amount of revenue. Hint hint...why do you think Imacs and Ipods were released FIRST.

Marketing through ads and word of mouth take time to spread around and apple doesn't want to waste its precious forth quarter on building demand. let the market get saturated with apple hysteria, thanks to back to school rushes, word of mouth, and a plethera of ads, and then watch your numbers jump off the board when the fourth quarter roles around. the point is that you want yours sales to be at their peaks by the holidays. this is why historically fall has been a prime time for new releases by a lot of companies, not just apple. it depends on the type of product electronics generally need more time...they cost more hence people need time to save, toys on the other hand (the cheap kind) can come out in october, even november and still catch on fire in time.

so i guess im torn, tuesday sounds good marketing wise, and by God i hope you're right, but i can't help but think that every tuesday from now till january will be the BEST marketing week LEFT for apple. yet for some reason there wasnt and still arent any signs that theyre going to be released soon. i just take it as MBP's dont sell enough to get their own marketing strategy independent of other products. Maybe theyre simply lumping them WITH the updated MB's to get more attention when thanksgiving roles around?

[jfsouza]

Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I agree that being the beginning of the fourth quarter it would make sense to have apple release the new MBP's. At the same time however, if we really think about it, and you can trust me on this people, i work in finance and analyzing the market is my 70 hour a week job, for companies like apple promoting BEFORE the technical start of the fourth quarter would actually lead to the largest amount of revenue. Hint hint...why do you think Imacs and Ipods were released FIRST.

Marketing through ads and word of mouth take time to spread around and apple doesn't want to waste its precious forth quarter on building demand. let the market get saturated with apple hysteria, thanks to back to school rushes, word of mouth, and a plethera of ads, and then watch your numbers jump off the board when the fourth quarter roles around. the point is that you want yours sales to be at their peaks by the holidays. this is why historically fall has been a prime time for new releases by a lot of companies, not just apple. it depends on the type of product electronics generally need more time...they cost more hence people need time to save, toys on the other hand (the cheap kind) can come out in october, even november and still catch on fire in time.

so i guess im torn, tuesday sounds good marketing wise, and by God i hope you're right, but i can't help but think that every tuesday from now till january will be the BEST marketing week LEFT for apple. yet for some reason there wasnt and still arent any signs that theyre going to be released soon. i just take it as MBP's dont sell enough to get their own marketing strategy independent of other products. Maybe theyre simply lumping them WITH the updated MB's to get more attention when thanksgiving roles around?

Very good post - I agree completely. I remember during October last year Apple released some stuff... I forget what though.

[S i]

Well said! now i have a couple mix feelings about this and i really hope some of you can help clear up some of these for me...

I think there are issues beyond marketing "pulling the trigger". Argh, don't like that phrase (yet just used it, I know). My money is on ironing out the mooing, whining, heat etc issues. Interesting post though, thanks :)

[suwandy]

*crosses fingers*

My MacBook Pro left Alaska 8 hours ago! Here's to hoping it arrives Friday and not Monday!

Forgive me, I'm happy to have a current MBP and not a new one. Its my first Mac (sorta, I have a Mac now, but its not mine)

heh, your iPod is a Mac you know ;)

[suwandy]

Forgive me for saying this, but I think this thread is starting to get out of topic. Meaning, no matter how much we discuss and discuss, Photokina is coming to a close and MBP is not out yet. From reading plenty of the posts here, rather than "upgrade at Photokina" it's more about "upgrade possible any Tuesdays", so why don't we switch over to the forum "Full laptop refresh by Holidays" or something?

Not that I don't understand how some people are eager to get this thread going and hit the record, but then again, that isn't what we are all here for. It's for the imminent upgrade to the MBP.

I don't know why I'm saying this, perhaps it's because I'm starting to get bored of the conversation here, or perhaps I held my hopes too high for the upgrade at Photokina and got put down really hard to find my hopes are at the wrong end of the day.

[suwandy]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)

Sweet, here goes for the Tuesday, again!

Thank God I still have plenty other computers to work on my thesis, when my personal PC are getting closer to dying, although they aren't Mac :(

[S i]

Not that I don't understand how some people are eager to get this thread going and hit the record

I don't think anyone is aiming to get over 6200 posts are they?!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=75540&page=249

It's kind of nice to have one central C2D MBP/MB whinging thread at a time to be honest :) I waste even more time when I have to search the forum for threads to get me all upset & anxious about C2D :D

[Glenny2lappies]

I finally had to say something... This wait is really frustrating - I've been waiting all summer for the Merom, and now it's getting rather tedious.

I've noticed that Sony have finally started to fight back after sleeping for so long. Not that I'm that interested as I've caught the Apple bug (not sure if it'll develop into full case of Jobitus though). However, these do look very interesting and I think give weight to the feeling that Apple are going to do something about the (slightly) dated looks of the MBP. Lets face it, three years is a very long time for the same basic design (even though it's timeless elegance, etc.)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/29/hw_sony_vaio_c_series/

I personally feel that anyone with a lifestyle doesn't have either. And El Reg (http://www.theregister.com) is superbly sarcastic to this effect. But... I wonder if this may lead some more shallow 'trendy' people to move away from buying an Apple and on to a Vaio?

[geiger167]

Just out of curiousity, all the people fence sitting waiting for the new core2duo laptops, how much of a difference do you expect the new processor to make to the performance of the machine ?
The reason I ask is that since upgrading my imac to the 24' model from the coreduo 20' I cant, hand on heart, say there is any particular difference in the machines performance over my previous Intel model. This is no way a criticism by the way, both machines are extremely snappy, programs open fast and both are a joy to use. Although I'm not a heavy professional user (so no long winded rendering here or excessive use of photo/graphic appplications) I just wonder if a lot of people who are sitting on the fence waiting for the CPU upgrade would actually notice any difference using the core2duo processor over the existing coreduo processor already in the machine. I understand the imac is slightly different to a laptop but essentially the components inside are the same so I feel the comparison is fair.
I'm not apple bashing by the way I love my new Imac the extra screen size for watching high def content at native resolutions is stunning, but really day to day running i'm not noticing anything I didn't get with my old 20' coreduo imac :)

[akadmon]

Well everyone, I went to my local Apple Store just outside of Boulder, CO and personally asked the rep there about C2D updates and he basically said they should be in by the Holiday season.

Given that we're into Ramadan and today is Friday, I think our wait may finally be over!;)

[macha]

the waiting took me too long. No merom macbook ( pro ) for me.
just ordered my alienware area 51 laptop with core 2 duo......
a supermachine for less.

[S i]

Just out of curiousity, all the people fence sitting waiting for the new core2duo laptops, how much of a difference do you expect the new processor to make to the performance of the machine ?

For me personally, I'm not deciding to wait based on a perception of performance increase, however, I imagine C2D to have increased performance best measured instead of felt. The MBP will be a replacement for a 2.8GB RAM (4Gb not available due to memory mapped io space blah blah) 64-bit XP/Linux laptop I own, & I'm not about to step back to the days of 32-bit. There are both developer & user reasons behind that. Were I not requiring 64-bit, I'd still wait anyway, so I'd know what the refreshed line had to offer. There might be updates beyond C2D, & I'm certainly hoping for them.

Because I can wait, I will, & I won't confuse wanting badly with needing. Most people have something they can use during the wait. A few posters here (not yourself) seem pretty hostile to "waiters", & quite frankly seem as if they would force you to buy now if they could. They are acting crazy, in my opinion. What about waiting inspires these people to get all "activist" about it?!

Enjoy that 24" iMac! -- I reckon I might pick one up myself for when I'm back in UK

the waiting took me too long. No merom macbook ( pro ) for me.
just ordered my alienware area 51 laptop with core 2 duo......
a supermachine for less.

Well, if you need it I can understand frankly. Were you a PC user thinking of switching btw? (I don't want to assume)

[generik]

the waiting took me too long. No merom macbook ( pro ) for me.
just ordered my alienware area 51 laptop with core 2 duo......
a supermachine for less.

Enjoy that testicle warmer. Would double up as a dumb bell for you to train up those pasty biceps too.

A few posters here (not yourself) seem pretty hostile to "waiters", & quite frankly seem as if they would force you to buy now if they could. They are acting crazy, in my opinion. What about waiting inspires these people to get all "activist" about it?!


Simple psychological explaination: they bought, they regret it, they know they screwed up. Subconsciously they just want more to share in their mistakes so it won't feel as bad.

[ariechel]

Very good post - I agree completely. I remember during October last year Apple released some stuff... I forget what though.

Powerbooks with better screen resolution (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051019144929.shtml) were released at a Special Media Event on October 19.

[Glenny2lappies]

Just out of curiousity, all the people fence sitting waiting for the new core2duo laptops, how much of a difference do you expect the new processor to make to the performance of the machine ?

For me, surprisingly, it's not so much the performance gain, it's the fact that I've been waiting (=lusting) after a shiny new lappie to replace my G4 and aging Vaio. I replace my lappies every three years whether I need to or not! The 3rd anniversary was in June, so I've been looking around and will go for a MBP 17" (or is that a 15", or MB Black, oooh, the choices - it's like a kid in a sweet shop!). As it's a professional purchase, money's not really the problem.

My real issue is I've been hanging on for so long now, I'm damned if I'm going to buy an old model. Yep, the heels have dug in and I'm not budging off the pot (no matter how many metaphors I mix).

It's a royal pain though as I really do want to dump the two lappies and get one replacement. Or do I? Maybe I need a small portable one and a big desktop replacement to wow my clients.....

I think I'm really waiting for an update that includes a higher resolution screen (I write lots of code, so would prefer WUXGA), and a very big disc (music and Windros XP VM's take up a lot of room). However, I've a feeling that this might be too much. I'd really be niggled if they release the MBPM and nothing else - I'm then faced with waiting for Santa Rosa.

[holycat]

Acer released new C2D noteBook :mad: :mad: :mad:

Where's our C2D MBP!!

[emotion]

Face it, Apple is NOT gonna release new macbookpros this year. :mad:

I'm not sure anyone on here can be that sure. I'd say it's unlikely they won't before the holiday season.

[shecky]

Face it, Apple is NOT gonna release new macbookpros this year. :mad:

i find that unlikely.

[S i]

Enjoy that testicle warmer. Would double up as a dumb bell for you to train up those pasty biceps too.



Simple psychological explaination: they bought, they regret it, they know they screwed up. Subconsciously they just want more to share in their mistakes so it won't feel as bad.

You got me thinking, so I just measured my PC laptop. 6kg & 2in height. The power brick is enormous too. Was getting so hot that it'd shut down regularly if I didn't carry out pretty regular compressed air cleaning.

Psych eval in hand, I'll keep an eye out for "bought the old one" trauma symptoms :)

[ThunderLounge]

Just out of curiousity, all the people fence sitting waiting for the new core2duo laptops, how much of a difference do you expect the new processor to make to the performance of the machine ?
The reason I ask is that since upgrading my imac to the 24' model from the coreduo 20' I cant, hand on heart, say there is any particular difference in the machines performance over my previous Intel model. This is no way a criticism by the way, both machines are extremely snappy, programs open fast and both are a joy to use. Although I'm not a heavy professional user (so no long winded rendering here or excessive use of photo/graphic appplications) I just wonder if a lot of people who are sitting on the fence waiting for the CPU upgrade would actually notice any difference using the core2duo processor over the existing coreduo processor already in the machine. I understand the imac is slightly different to a laptop but essentially the components inside are the same so I feel the comparison is fair.
I'm not apple bashing by the way I love my new Imac the extra screen size for watching high def content at native resolutions is stunning, but really day to day running i'm not noticing anything I didn't get with my old 20' coreduo imac :)

Initially, today, you're correct. There isn't a super big improvement over the CD. There is some improvement, but overall not incredible leaps and bounds over buildings and such.

However, in the not so distant future the 64bit capabilities will be coming in handy. When Leopard ships it will be a 64bit OS, it will also work for 32bit as well but that 64bit will shine.

Continuing on, a year from now, a year and a half from now... there will definitely be more 64bit stuff available, which the C2D will run like a champ.

Sure, some people swap up about once a year. For a lot of people though, they swap up more like every 3 or 4 years. So for the latter, they want to ensure that it will be as compatible as possible for things in the future that aren't known yet.

For someone that isn't a real heavy power user, you're right. There probably wouldn't be much noticible difference 2 years from now, but for more advanced usage there certainly will be.

Hope that makes sense, it's still early. :)

[gonnabuyamac]

if they don't release a C2D MBP before the end of October, I'm thinking about just getting a Macbook and a 20" Cinema. Those combined cost about as much as a MBP - and the lack of GPU really won't affect my design work... would it?

[MacinDoc]

Face it, Apple is NOT gonna release new macbookpros this year. :mad:
Why would Apple not release them? Apple does not want to look like it's significantly behind, and the cost of the C2Ds is the same, so it's likely just a bit of engineering work being done to fix a few problems with the previous rev. AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2060), recently a very reliable source, expects both models to be updated by Thanksgiving. If that's the case, the MBP will likely come out in October, and the MB just in time for Black Thursday.

[ThunderLounge]

something to be aware of that i saw elsewhere but i think was mentioned here before: this saturday is the end of the fiscal 3rd quarter for Apple. Therefore this coming tuesday is the first tuesday of the 4th quarter.


OK i am reaching, but i could believe that apple waited until 4th quarter to release specifically to have huge numbers in Q4. Of course, at this point we can always find a reason to justify the next tuesday for a release :)


Not necessarily grabbing.

Since it does start their new fiscal year. Meaning FY07.

The reply someone made to this was also good food for thought.

Use Q4 of FY06 to ramp up some excitement with a few other products, back to school buzz, etc.


My added thoughts to that would be that it also gives a little room to allow for increased supply of the higher-end chips of the line. Add in the competition that is also demanding chip supplies, and it becomes more reasonable in my mind for the delay. They're now competing with all the other manufacturers for a steady supply of chips to meet their demand. Apple has estimates of the numbers that they'll need to launch the updated line, and if the supply can't keep up yet to be able to provide realistic ship times, this could be another factor.

Then throw in the possibility of engineering concerns which were seen previously with heat. However I don't think that is still happening, but it could have impacted the entire time line a couple months ago which could have pushed back the end of the time line for release.

[ThunderLounge]

Face it, Apple is NOT gonna release new macbookpros this year. :mad:

Um, we heard your input the FIRST time... :rolleyes:

[david6545]

Just out of curiousity, all the people fence sitting waiting for the new core2duo laptops, how much of a difference do you expect the new processor to make to the performance of the machine ?
The reason I ask is that since upgrading my imac to the 24' model from the coreduo 20' I cant, hand on heart, say there is any particular difference in the machines performance over my previous Intel model. This is no way a criticism by the way, both machines are extremely snappy, programs open fast and both are a joy to use. Although I'm not a heavy professional user (so no long winded rendering here or excessive use of photo/graphic appplications) I just wonder if a lot of people who are sitting on the fence waiting for the CPU upgrade would actually notice any difference using the core2duo processor over the existing coreduo processor already in the machine. I understand the imac is slightly different to a laptop but essentially the components inside are the same so I feel the comparison is fair.
I'm not apple bashing by the way I love my new Imac the extra screen size for watching high def content at native resolutions is stunning, but really day to day running i'm not noticing anything I didn't get with my old 20' coreduo imac :)


Totally valid point- there is not a big difference between processors. But looking through the 100+ pages of this thread, you keep seeing the same patterns. Someone says exactly what you said and them some others reply that they are waiting to replace their ageing PowerBook and in order to fork out so much on a MBP, they want it to be : a) as futureproof as possible. b) 64 bit to be maximise Leopard's potential c) d) etc.

Posts are just repeating themselves over and over again.

[shecky]

Since it does start their new fiscal year. Meaning FY07.


ahh, i did not realize that october was the start of FY for apple; that makes it even slightly more likely in my mind. i hope so; i just got my OEM copy of Win XP in anticipation of my first Intel Mac and Half-Life 2; now its just sitting on my desk waiting for a home.

[aaronb]

I don't understand why so may people say that the MBPs won't be updated AT ALL this year because they weren't updated at a few offered special events. There's an entire 3 months left and I just can't see Apple not doing a thing while Dell/HP/Sony/etc. are selling C2D laptops. there's still 3 months left in this year, Apple is completely capable of distributing laptops within that time frame.

And just because the shipping times of the Yonah MBPs hasn't changed, doesn't mean that they haven't been experimenting with a pretty good amount of Merom MBPs. I think Apple has learned a lot from its notebook mistakes in the past.

[ThunderLounge]

Posts are just reapeating themselves over and over again.

Yep, it's getting there.

Of course, and the questions are asked again and again.


People could just say RTFT, instead. If it were a 10pg thread, OK. But since it's at 107 and pushing 108 now, the chances get slimmer that someone in a hurry to ask a question is going to actually read back through it all.

[S i]

ahh, i did not realize that october was the start of FY for apple; that makes it even slightly more likely in my mind. i hope so; i just got my OEM copy of Win XP in anticipation of my first Intel Mac and Half-Life 2; now its just sitting on my desk waiting for a home.

Oo yeah! Half-Life 2 is waiting for me to finish my current project. Best I'd go do some of it I guess :o Felt chatty today is all :)

[tarjan]

Most companies release oct/nov because it gets them past the back to school purchase rush yet gives them plenty of time to be available for the winter holiday purchase rush.

Maybe thats the plan.

I just want higher screen resolution and a better video card.

[Multimedia]

Forgive me for saying this, but I think this thread is starting to get out of topic. Meaning, no matter how much we discuss and discuss, Photokina is coming to a close and MBP is not out yet. From reading plenty of the posts here, rather than "upgrade at Photokina" it's more about "upgrade possible any Tuesdays", so why don't we switch over to the forum "Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235341&page=25)" ...

Not that I don't understand how some people are eager to get this thread going and hit the record, but then again, that isn't what we are all here for. It's for the imminent upgrade to the MBP.

I don't know why I'm saying this, perhaps it's because I'm starting to get bored of the conversation here, or perhaps I held my hopes too high for the upgrade at Photokina and got put down really hard to find my hopes are at the wrong end of the day.I agree that everyone should shift to the "Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235341&page=25)" thread. This topic is really obsolete now while the the above is spot on.

Some of us are over there as well as here. But I guess the best thing to do is for us to stop posting here and pledge to only post over there (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235341&page=25) from now until the refresh when we will shift to the refresh announcement thread.

It's been swell here and it's great that there are so many posts although many are redundant because many late comers didn't take the time to read from the beginning. See you there where there are now 25 pages up to 604 posts (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235341&page=25).

I admit to being burnt out. But I will hang in there. :)

[Abraxsis]

I dont understand all these people who keep bringing up the fact that Leopard is 64 bit. So you have a 64 bit OS running on a 64 bit processor. The comparasions between XP-32 and XP 64 shows that while 64 bit optimized code executes somewhat faster, the overall "speed boost" is insignificant. At this time, and for the next 2 years, the only real advantage to having 64 bits is the memory allocation, which is null and void on a Macbook Pro due to its physical limitations. Until someone releases 4GB So-DIMMs, or Apple adds in 4 DIMM slots with support for current 2GB so-DIMMs, the fact that 64 bit can allocate more RAM is completely moot. If they drop in C2D tomorrow, you're still SOL until Apple provide support for 2 gigers, or higher gig sticks are created.

Perhaps Apple knows this, and are waiting on something new. Maybe back to on-board RAM (1-2GB) and 2 empty onboard slots? I think people are in the mode of "but it's better," and while true it would be the same if I had a McLauren F1 Enzo imported to a country with nothing but dirt roads. It might be better, but youre going to have to do a crap load of infrastructure changes to make it worth it. So in this light, here is the roadmap I see.

1. Update before Holiday with a speedbump or pricedrop. Maybe a new trinket like a better Video Card. (Alternate ... C2D along with firmware update that allows the MBP to support 4GB max with 2 x 2GB modules)

2. Q1 2007 we'll see C2D with some sort of redesign that will allow more RAM, say 4-8GB max instead of 2GB. This release may come with the iTV and will be 2-3 months prior to Leopard's launch.

[dtsfanohio]

FWIW.. I have a friend who works for Apple in sales. I emailed him about the possibility of new Macbook Pros soon... he told me he didnt have any specific info on new Macbook Pros being imminent BUT... he did say they are having a sales meeting in Cupertino NEXT WEEK (week of Oct 2th)...

Being in sales myself, "sales meetings" usually proceed new product launches etc...

Pure speculation on my part, but I wouldnt be surprised to see a Apple Special Event announced for mid-late October....

Food for thought.. some fact and some speculation.....

[S i]

I dont understand all these people who keep bringing up the fact that Leopard is 64 bit. So you have a 64 bit OS running on a 64 bit processor. The comparasions between XP-32 and XP 64 shows that while 64 bit optimized code executes somewhat faster, the overall "speed boost" is insignificant. At this time, and for the next 2 years, the only real advantage to having 64 bits is the memory allocation, which is null and void on a Macbook Pro due to its physical limitations.

I can't see you convincing anyone frankly. The 32-bit refuseniks have been dealing out this stuff repeatedly already. I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. As a side note, 64-bit XP is dire, & I mean that generally :)


1. Update before Holiday with a speedbump or pricedrop. Maybe a new trinket like a better Video Card. (Alternate ... C2D along with firmware update that allows the MBP to support 4GB max with 2 x 2GB modules)

2. Q1 2007 we'll see C2D with some sort of redesign that will allow more RAM, say 4-8GB max instead of 2GB. This release may come with the iTV and will be 2-3 months prior to Leopard's launch.

Yikes! :eek: I'm not liking option 1 without C2D. I'd be waiting for option 2 in that case. 4Gb would be great, but stick price is a problem. Interesting though, thanks.

[Neuroguy]

So with the fiscal year change coming up soon...

Who's getting excited with me about next Tuesday! (Oct 3rd)??

Neuroguy


PS. If they don't come out with one next Tuesday....I'll.. I'lL... I'll... be waiting until the Tuesday after that.

[MrFrankly]

I can't see you convincing anyone frankly. The 32-bit refuseniks have been dealing out this stuff repeatedly already. I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. As a side note, 64-bit XP is dire, & I mean that generally :)


He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.

[DavidCar]

... I'm a compile from source kind of guy, & have had great results from 64-bit, so there's really no way I'm going back to 32-bit. ... So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)

[ThunderLounge]

ahh, i did not realize that october was the start of FY for apple; that makes it even slightly more likely in my mind. i hope so; i just got my OEM copy of Win XP in anticipation of my first Intel Mac and Half-Life 2; now its just sitting on my desk waiting for a home.


To be honest, I don't know what the deal is with starting a FY at the beginning of Q4 in the calender year.

Some businesses do it that way, some don't. Since I'm not a CPA, I have no idea the advantage or reasoning for it.


Anyway, I guess I'll drag my feet to the other thread.

[Neuroguy]

... The 32-bit refuseniks ....




I like that, I'll add it, with respect, to my tagline...


---------------
Neuroguy
Member #4, Merom MBP Support Group
and
32-bit refusenik

[S i]

He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.

Non technically, they're faster because they run my software faster. Also, I don't find it "totally right" that the only real advantage is addressable space.

So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)

Your mileage will vary, but certainly in the short term you're probably looking at the kind of smaller improvements that have been touted around. In my case however, I'm thinking more of Fink, Darwin ports, & other open source projects. I'm developing Mac applications now, but my experience is mostly at enterprise server level. Having said that, you should get good results from audio/video transcoding for example, which lots of MBP Pro users might be doing.

I like that, I'll add it, with respect, to my tagline...

Hey, thanks :o

Dinner time soon, so ciao for now

[jamesarm97]

Some hope left?

Gelsinger said Apple's MacBook Pro was the last product in which the two companies worked closely. "We've just gotten that done, but a number of projects are under way with Apple on next-generation technologies -- but I can't detail those," he said. "Apple is very secretive, even to us. It's the nature of the company."

It's unclear if Gelsinger was referring the MacBook Pro models released in February or the revised Core 2 Duo models due in the next six weeks. However, with Intel believed to have been largely responsible for Apple's Mac Pro released last month, it's likely he is implying the latter.

- James

[saveranger]

First time poster, long time lurker.

As soon as the c2d mbp come out i will finally switch to apple. i've always thought that macs were attractive but since they've switched to intel chips and can run windows (i need this for work) i've decided to switch. I, like many of you, am anxiously waiting cash-in-hand to rush to the apple store and get a laptop.

Yes, I could get a cd mbp, but if i'm gonna spend $2,800.42 (w/taxes and edu discount), the second most expensive thing i've ever bought (cars was the most expensive $3,500 used honda civic), and the most i've ever spent on computer(s). I really, really want the most for my money.

Anyways,

i went over to alienware to see what they had and although it looks tempting (power not looks) i think i can hold out a couple more weeks before i lose it.

here is some info.

their Area 51 C2D 17" laptop (nothing custom) has an Estimated Ship Date of October 09. Their Area 51 C2D 15.4" laptop ships October 12.

note: both can be customized with a WideUXGA 1920 x 1200 LCD!!

[ckodonnell]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or something.

A 64 bit operation takes the same amount of time as it's 32 bit equivalent. That's the point. A 64 bit increment will take the same time as a 32 bit increment. Same for loads and stores. 64 bit processors doing 32 bit operations don't go any faster or slower. An op is an op is an op.

The point is that you can operate on 64 bits rather than 32. Now does this matter for every application? Nope. Does it matter in certain circumstances? You bet your bippy. Why do you think that GPU's have gone 16 bit -> 32 bit -> 64 bit -> 128 bit -> 256bit ... faster than general computer CPU's? Because it matters! Why are scientific computing people interested in off-loading tasks to GPU's? Same reason. An op is an op is an op.

He is totally right though. Technically 64 bit could be a little bit slower even. If you comparse 2 CPUs with exactly the same specs with the only difference being 32 and 64 bit support I would argue that 64 bit will be slower.

The registers that have to be copied, during a context switch for example, are twice as big and therefor will take longer to move.

There is nothing wrong with 64 bit CPUs of course. But they're not faster by definition simply because they're 64 bit instead of 32 bit.

[bazzalisk]

So if I'm compiling some average Cocoa programs in XCode, should I also expect "great results" from 64 bit? (Thus justifying my wait for C2D.)

Right now, no.

At the moment all GUI programs (andd hence all cocoa programs) for Tiger and all earlier versions of OS X can only run in 32-bit mode because the graphical portions of the OS only run in 32-bit mode.

Come the advent of leopard you may discover a significant improvemnt with 64-bit code.

[MrFrankly]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or something.

I was not being sarcastic.

You are right that an operation on a 64 bit CPU and a 32 bit CPU could take the same amount of time. This of course very much depends on the implementation, but it’s a valid assumption.

The problem is, with context switching, you’re copying the currently active data from the registers in your CPU to an other place for storage so you can run an other process. If your lucky this register storage will be your CPU cache (which is fast, but not as fast as the cpu), but often this will move to your RAM (which is fast, but not as fast as the cpu cache) when the data gets too big. When you have 32 bit registers your currently active data is usually* smaller then when you move 64 bit registers. So with 64 bit values your cache will be full much faster and move into slow RAM.

So as long as you stay in your CPU 32 bit or 64 bit won’t matter. But when you’re doing multitasking and are concerned with matters of context switching then 64 bit can be slower.

The point I am trying to make isn't that 64 bit is always slower. Just that it isn't faster by definition. Of course there are great uses for 64 bit computing but that wasn’t my point. I just laugh a little when people say that their computer is so fast because it’s 64 bit.

* as always in computer science, there are exceptions.

[suwandy]

I finally had to say something... This wait is really frustrating - I've been waiting all summer for the Merom, and now it's getting rather tedious.

I've noticed that Sony have finally started to fight back after sleeping for so long. Not that I'm that interested as I've caught the Apple bug (not sure if it'll develop into full case of Jobitus though). However, these do look very interesting and I think give weight to the feeling that Apple are going to do something about the (slightly) dated looks of the MBP. Lets face it, three years is a very long time for the same basic design (even though it's timeless elegance, etc.)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/29/hw_sony_vaio_c_series/

I personally feel that anyone with a lifestyle doesn't have either. And El Reg (http://www.theregister.com) is superbly sarcastic to this effect. But... I wonder if this may lead some more shallow 'trendy' people to move away from buying an Apple and on to a Vaio?

Sony Fights back? That'll take years to overcome Apple, if they ever could. :)

Me thinks they should handle their batteries issues first, like y'know, provide the right batteries to their clients, like Apple & Toshiba.

Apple could sue Sony in this way ... too bad they didn't

[suwandy]

Face it, Apple is NOT gonna release new macbookpros this year. :mad:

Come on, don't drop our morales like that :(
Multimedia, where's your voice ? :D

[Neuroguy]

Come on, don't drop our morales like that :(
Multimedia, where's your voice ? :D

He went over to that other thread.. sniff.. sniff..:(

[ergle2]

The problem is, with context switching, [...]

Not just context switches. 64bit addresses (and thus pointers) are twice as big.

That means you're fetching more data. That can add slowdown.

However, in the case of Intel64 (which is the new name for EM64T, apparently... copy AMD much, did they? ;)), you get double the register set including double the SSE registers.

That alone can be slower in the case of a context switch as it's now approx four times the amount of data.

However, it can also result in a major speedup, and since we're talking Intel here, we're talking a register-starved design from the outset. As with most of my responses on how new CPUs etc. might affect things, "it depends what you're doing" :)

[rowdy268]

A buddy of mine purchased a MBP in July. This was his first mac and I had been trying to get him to switch for a long time. I saw him again in August and he told me that he was having issues with his display going out. He called Applecare, they walked him through some troubleshooting and it seemed to go away, only to come back a couple of days latter. He suffered through it to finish some projects and sent his MBP in for service two weeks ago. On Monday of this week, he called Apple to check on it as it showed "Pending Shipment" for several days. The told him that they were in fact waiting on a backordered part, but to call back by Thursday if he didn't receive it. He called back last night and told them that he either needed his machine fixed and returned or he wanted a new machine. The rep said that at this point they were willing to give a new machine, but that the 17" was backordered and it would take longer to get a new one than get the part to fix his. I know that the apple store still shows a 24hr ship time on those, but maybe it's a sign that stock is indeed dwindling and we are on the horizon for the new MBP!

I've been waiting to buy since July and am just trying to be patient with the rest of you! Today has been good though, because I ordered a Mac Pro and it wasn't supposed to be here until next Wednesday - FedEx just dropped it off...so I'm off to see how fast it really is!!!

My gut is that we'll see new MBPs within the next 3 weeks!

[undead-design]

is this the end of this? oh no. did all migrate while i was away from the internet? now where i am going to hear all about how the MPB C2D is going to come out after the Powerbook G5?!!?!?! ;) :p :D

[evisa]

is this the end of this? oh no. did all migrate while i was away from the internet? now where i am going to hear all about how the MPB C2D is going to come out after the Powerbook G5?!!?!?! ;) :p :D

yes, in fact. everyone migrated onto the Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235341) thread, linked for the lazy ;)

[Neuroguy]

Hi Everyone,

I hate to post this here, but I am getting really sick of waiting for my 1st Mac. I want a MMBP, but the thought of waiting until the "holiday season" is driving me bananas.

With a work discount, I could get the following,

15" MacBook Pro 2.1GHz + 3-yr AppleCare
for $2387+tax.

Is this a good enough deal to jump at, or should I wait?

Thanks for the advice

Neuroguy

[shecky]

well, that same deal on the education store is $2538, so i would say its pretty good.

[nodabs]

Is this a good enough deal to jump at, or should I wait?

If you need a computer now, then that's a good deal and i'd go for it. However, if you don't really NEED one and could conceivably hold out for maybe (months?) then i would say wait. The other option is to buy that one, and try to sell it if the updated MBP proves to be THAT much better than the one you have. With your discount you probably wouldn't lose too much on the sale.

[suwandy]

Hehe, we are pretty silent aren't we now. I hope everyone has moved now :)

[mautal]

if by update at photokina you mean update by next week, this post still has some relevance...

posting @ 2am cannot be a good sign..:eek:

[Aniej]

how many possible iterations of the same thread do you think we can get going... If these bad boys are coming out in macworld 07 in Jan., then why not just wait a few months until leopard is done also and get it as part of the purchase instead of paying for the new system?

[dbit]

Dude, wtf.

Where are the "worlds fastest super computers" they promised us.

Ridiculous.

Don't say "these are still fast machines".

They didn't promise us they'd produce "the worlds pretty fast super computers". The chips are out, I want em. I'm cancelling certain engagements because I don't want to replace my laptop without C2D chips. I want a reason. Is Job's ego still making up for other lackings? WTF?

[macman2790]

okay why are you guys using this thread. Photokina is well......................................................done.
Ohhh. MR newbies i get it.

[dbit]

I dont really care at this point how apple brags. C2D's are out. Apple haven't released em in the notebooks. No bragging rights beyond yer "pretty not so new case" till you drop the new chips in. Sweet. You're the coolest. Great.

Yer os is better, we get it, but please, can you and Gates just measure em so we can end this ****?

Sorry. Signed frustrated and annoyed.

[suwandy]

I dont really care at this point how apple brags. C2D's are out. Apple haven't released em in the notebooks. No bragging rights beyond yer "pretty not so new case" till you drop the new chips in. Sweet. You're the coolest. Great.

Yer os is better, we get it, but please, can you and Gates just measure em so we can end this ****?

Sorry. Signed frustrated and annoyed.

lol, can't believe there is still postings here

[azzurri000]

It was totally worth the wait.

[dbit]

waaaay worth it! Purchase tomorrow! Still Kudos to apple for driving me insane. Now I get to laugh along with the rest of you punks at the Santa Rosa preachers, though I imagine that at this point anyone waiting for Santa Rosa didn't need to upgrade just yet anyways!