MacBook Pro Upgrade At Photokina?

[ThunderLounge]

Wow, since when? Apple frequently make announcements along the lines of "shipping next month". They done it with PowerMacs, they done it with PowerBooks. Even the current MacBook Pros were announced on January 10th 2006 as "shipping next month". Furthemore, in reality, most MBPs ordered in early January didn't ship for over a month and a half later.

Even now, Apple's iTV is not expected to be available until half a year after the announcement.

In short, Apple are NOT the kind of company who only announce items that are ready to ship. They are the kind of company that currently, and in the past, announces upcoming items that will be available soon, but are not ready to ship.

There's exceptions to every rule, but for updated lines they still like the "come and get it" approach.

When the intel MBP's were announced, it was not only a line change, but how long had it been since the flagship laptop had any real buzz about it? We're not talking a processor bump from 1, to 1.25, to 1.33 either. Serious buzz. There hadn't been any for a while. Everyone had originally been waiting on the ever looming "G5 PB" that never showed up. So yes, they needed to build the hype a bit for those. Like I said, there's exceptions to every rule. The Tuesday rule, the announcement rule, the whatever.

And what does the iTV box have to do with their computer upgrades? That's what we're talking about here, isn't it? The iTV is more of a "gadget", like an iPod. And that's a different ball game there too.

[ThunderLounge]

i just want a damn MBP i have been waiting for core 2 duo mbp for months, theres no point in giving in now thou, other wise it would of been pointless waiting all this time

come on wednesday update!

You mean you've known about the chips for months. They're just now becoming available in any type of quantity for notebooks, regardless of manufacturer. Which, most aren't shipping yet.

[Mr.Gadget]

if it is a hardware issue holding up the release, then a new generation optical drive is a distinct posibility. The fab plants are churning them out as quickly as possible, but suplies are very limited, almost non existent especially for the notebook market.

Sony have gone some on sale (not suprising due to their involvement) as have Asus (again not suprising as they make their own)

Yeah... And wasn't Apple the first to put a DVD burner into a laptop? (not sure, but that kinda sticks in my noggin). Would be nice to have them announce one of the high capacity drives in a notebook. Course, not sure how that would help or hurt the price tag!

[richard4339]

There's step-by-step instructions that comes in your Mac's manual that directs you how to install RAM. The HD replacement, i'd recommend you bring it in to an Apple Store for installation

I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't void my warranty if I try to replace everything!

[Multimedia]

How is this "forever" between updates? I don't get it. The damn chips haven't been available but a couple weeks, and supplies of the top of their line limited still. Why does Apple "suck ass"? Because you bought off on a rumor, and got into all the hype of something that might happen? Wah. Let's shed a tear.

Others have "announced" they have them [C2D], and what they plan to do with them, but are they shipping them? No, in most cases. In another couple of weeks the answer will be different, as the new ones start to ship. Just because you can configure it on their site doesn't mean anything. When does it ship?

Apple has always had their game face set when they make announcements. They say, "Now shipping."

Meaning, go buy it and here it comes. Not, go buy it and it'll be a few weeks. It might take a day or two for the local Apple store to have them in, or they might be there already.

The point is, this isn't the longest wait in the world, and the world isn't about to end over a few days, weeks, or even three months of difference. Try YEARS, then come and complain.

In the real world, they need a steady enough supply of chips to meet the demand, and to have a product that works. Just because you've known about the chip, what it "does", etc., as public knowledge for 6 months, doesn't mean Apple is 6 months behind the curve. Just because other manufacturer's have told you what they plan to do with their stock of chips doesn't make apple behind the curve. If they had been shipping units for 8 - 12 weeks, and Apple still had nothing, then you can say behind the curve. Or maybe when the rest of the world is shipping processors that are twice as fast, then you can say behind the curve.

Off by a couple of days, or even a couple of weeks? Give me a break. How many times has someone b****ed about something Apple "might be doing", just for the end result to blow up in their face while Apple shows their true innovation? Thread 500, anyone?

Like it or not, Apple's are a targeted product still. While they are reaching out to embrace the entire market more openly, they're still getting there. So if you're mad a Apple because they haven't told you what they "plan" to do, have they ever really operated like that? "Yeah, we're going to take this PowerMac in about 8 weeks and drop in these..." Nope, not really. Now for the OS, that's a different ball game all together. We're talking the machine, not the software.

Wow. Was that all bottled up or what? :o :DThat was pure brilliance. Exactly what I've been thinking all along. Thanks for that excellent piece of work ThunderLounge.

[mrdice87]

How is this "forever" between updates? I don't get it. The damn chips haven't been available but a couple weeks, and supplies of the top of their line limited still. Why does Apple "suck ass"? Because you bought off on a rumor, and got into all the hype of something that might happen? Wah. Let's shed a tear.

Others have "announced" they have them [C2D], and what they plan to do with them, but are they shipping them? No, in most cases. In another couple of weeks the answer will be different, as the new ones start to ship. Just because you can configure it on their site doesn't mean anything. When does it ship?

Apple has always had their game face set when they make announcements. They say, "Now shipping."

Meaning, go buy it and here it comes. Not, go buy it and it'll be a few weeks. It might take a day or two for the local Apple store to have them in, or they might be there already.


The point is, this isn't the longest wait in the world, and the world isn't about to end over a few days, weeks, or even three months of difference. Try YEARS, then come and complain.

In the real world, they need a steady enough supply of chips to meet the demand, and to have a product that works. Just because you've known about the chip, what it "does", etc., as public knowledge for 6 months, doesn't mean Apple is 6 months behind the curve. Just because other manufacturer's have told you what they plan to do with their stock of chips doesn't make apple behind the curve. If they had been shipping units for 8 - 12 weeks, and Apple still had nothing, then you can say behind the curve. Or maybe when the rest of the world is shipping processors that are twice as fast, then you can say behind the curve.

Off by a couple of days, or even a couple of weeks? Give me a break. How many times has someone b****ed about something Apple "might be doing", just for the end result to blow up in their face while Apple shows their true innovation? Thread 500, anyone?

Like it or not, Apple's are a targeted product still. While they are reaching out to embrace the entire market more openly, they're still getting there. So if you're mad a Apple because they haven't told you what they "plan" to do, have they ever really operated like that? "Yeah, we're going to take this PowerMac in about 8 weeks and drop in these..." Nope, not really. Now for the OS, that's a different ball game all together. We're talking the machine, not the software.



Wow. Was that all bottled up or what? :o

:D








Dell notebooks, even the low end ones, have been shipping with C2D for several weeks...

If you look at the site now, it will say there is a shipping delay, but that is due to build time, not low chip supply. That delay is moved back every day for new orders, but previously placed orders still ship on their quoted date.

now if only they weren't so ugly


P.S. Didn't I hear that Apple was supposed to be one of the first companies to include merom in its notebooks?

[Multimedia]

Dell notebooks, even the low end ones, have been shipping with C2D for several weeks...

If you look at the site now, it will say there is a shipping delay, but that is due to build time, not low chip supply. That delay is moved back every day for new orders, but previously placed orders still ship on their quoted date.

now if only they weren't so ugly

P.S. Didn't I hear that Apple was supposed to be one of the first companies to include merom in its notebooks?I think there's a rumor going around that you can't run OS X on a Dell computer. I'm not sure if this rumor has yet been verified though. ;)

[NewSc2]

You mean you've known about the chips for months. They're just now becoming available in any type of quantity for notebooks, regardless of manufacturer. Which, most aren't shipping yet.

They're not just now becoming available. They've been "available" since mid-July, (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795) and now every manufacturer has been churning out quantities for weeks already (Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba).

Believe me, Apple's had these chips since at least June (if not much earlier), and we all have no idea why Apple's taking so long to replace these chips that simply require a drop-in replacement over Yonah.

Hopefully they're planning some sort of other updates as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

[bob_hearn]

Apple has always had their game face set when they make announcements. They say, "Now shipping."

Meaning, go buy it and here it comes. Not, go buy it and it'll be a few weeks. It might take a day or two for the local Apple store to have them in, or they might be there already.

You are kidding, right? :eek:

[Multimedia]

They're not just now becoming available. They've been "available" since mid-July, (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795) and now every manufacturer has been churning out quantities for weeks already (Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba).

Believe me, Apple's had these chips since at least June (if not much earlier), and we all have no idea why Apple's taking so long to replace these chips that simply require a drop-in replacement over Yonah.

Hopefully they're planning some sort of other updates as well, but I'm not holding my breath.You don't know what you're writing about. I do NOT believe you and neither should anyone else here. There are many good reasons why C2D MBP isn't shipping yet. I am sure it will ship as soon as it's ready and not a day sooner.

[Reach]

I think there's a rumor going around that you can't run OS X on a Dell computer. I'm not sure if this rumor has yet been verified though. ;)
So if old G3's was the only computer available that could run OSX, would you buy that..? I'm not sure if you get the point, but no matter how much I love OSX, hardware is at least half of the equation for me. Hardware is what makes things like Aperture possible, and when I buy a computer for 3 years or so, every mhz counts when the end of it's lifespan comes. OSX won't get me to buy ****, it just makes me biased in buying hardware. Not saying current MBP's are **** now, but you get my point I hope.

[HecubusPro]

I just called the Century City Apple Store here in Los Angeles and asked if they had any 17" MBP's in stock. He checked and said he had 3 in stock. I asked if that was normal and he said, "No. We're running out." I asked him if they were getting another shipment soon and he told me they just received a shipment and got "a lot of stuff."

Take that as you will, because at this point I have no idea what it means.

[tteerts]

How is this "forever" between updates? I don't get it. The damn chips haven't been available but a couple weeks, and supplies of the top of their line limited still.

I think you misunderstood. I was not referring to it being "forever" for the C2D's to arrive - rather between G4 or G5 updates. I am merely a casual observer here.. not particularly in the market for a new laptop (certainly not rabid for one), but simply curious. I was merely trying to make the point that I think that the Intel cycle will be much different that the IBM/Moto cycle. I have my fingers crossed that this is a good thing, which I think it will be.

[rtharper]

Take that as you will, because at this point I have no idea what it means.

I'm guessing nothing, at this point. I don't trust anyone or anything. I'm incredibly forlorn/annoyed about this whole process. Photokina was really the last time I was willing to wait. I have $600 in Apple Gift Cards,though, so I can't in good conscience purchase another product.

I may give in, but the possibility of other updates other updates that come with the Merom keep me waiting. New GPU? That'd be neat. Accessible Hard Drive, possibly DL SuperDrive...

I'd kick myself in the face (I'm flexible enough to...) if I saw all those come out within a month after I bought. I just need to keep backing up my data for when my Latitude D800 finally kicks the bucket.

[nodabs]

I just called the Century City Apple Store here in Los Angeles and asked if they had any 17" MBP's in stock. He checked and said he had 3 in stock. I asked if that was normal and he said, "No. We're running out." I asked him if they were getting another shipment soon and he told me they just received a shipment and got "a lot of stuff."

Take that as you will, because at this point I have no idea what it means.
Interesting... i've just become so dejected with the whole waiting thing. I've decided to stop watching the rumor sites so intensely because it's killing me. On that note, i'm going to call my local Apple store... haha

[Compatiblepoker]

I think it will come. It's about time though. Been waiting and waiting and....

[AlphaAnt]

They're not just now becoming available. They've been "available" since mid-July, (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795) and now every manufacturer has been churning out quantities for weeks already (Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba).

Believe me, Apple's had these chips since at least June (if not much earlier), and we all have no idea why Apple's taking so long to replace these chips that simply require a drop-in replacement over Yonah.

Hopefully they're planning some sort of other updates as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

Nice job there, quoting an article about the Core 2 desktop processor and not about Merom.

Meroms were announced by Intel at the end of July. They were not released, however, until August 27th. The next day, dozens of laptop companies released their Merom laptops, most of which had shipping dates 2-4 weeks later. Apple is not (yet, at least) far behind.

For most of those companies, it was as simple as dropping a chip into an already existing model and chucking it out on the market. Apple is in need of a major update to a number of other things with their model, so they (hopefully) are fixing those and releasing a quality product. If you want a C2D MBP go buy a CD and a separate Merom chip and find someone to solder the C2D on in the CD's place. I, for one, am waiting around in hopes of having a working computer.

[DavidCar]

... There are many good reasons why C2D MBP isn't shipping yet. ...
This is my list of possible reasons I've heard, valid or invalid and in no particular order:

1- There are not enough Merom chips to go around at Apple, so they are all being diverted to the iMac.

2- There are lots of Yonah MacBooks/Pro in the pipeline that Apple intends to sell before introducing the Merom MacBooks/Pro.

3- Apple wants to fix the problems that surfaced in the Yonah MacBooks/Pro so they do not appear in the Merom models.

4- Apple wants to add new features to the Merom MacBooks/Pro before introducing them.

5- Apple never planned an immediate upgrade for the MacBooks/Pro to Merom, choosing instead to wait for the Santa Rosa platform, not anticipating the clamor heard in some quarters for a more timely upgrade to new chips.

[tyroja00]

I have been following this post from day one. Several have mentioned the hope that the new MBP C2D will also have an easy-access HD. Can someone tell me if the reason for that is because a) the current MBP HD is altogether inaccessible, and/or b) it voids the warranty to change it yourself?

I currently have a 15" MBP 2.16 but am looking to replace it and my ancient desktop at the office (G4 Sawtooth with upgraded 1.4 ghz processor) with a single 17" (more ports). I'm hoping the 17" with a new display will do the job of both...if it doesn't get too annoying taking it back and forth everyday. But I would want to replace the HD with a high capacity Seagate or similar and don't know if it is an undoable thing, should the new MBPs not include an easy-access HD.

The reason I want a swappable HD is so that I can have a full HD for MacOSX and since a lot of medical software that I use doesn't allow MacOSX, I could also have a full HD for Windows. When at work I could just pop in the windows HD and at home the Mac HD.

Now as for Mac not having the C2D out yet, I think that it is one of four likely reasons.

1) There is a design flaw (not too likely since it is just a drop in and the chip doesn't pump out that more heat) or Apple is finishing up a fresh design (hopefully).
2) There is a financial tactic, i.e. need to clear old stock, not best release time for market impact, etc.
3) They don't have the chips to make. Although this seems plausible since Apple is relatively a small player (compared to Dell or IBM/Lenovo) for Intel (5th in laptop market share and less than 5% of computer users). Of course, Intel is going to give the majority of chips to their oldest, largest customers (especially with the growing AMD). But, I don't see why they couldn't have shifted some chips from Mini (doesn't that use Merom? If so, then that destroys Mac-diehard arguments that Apple just got chips). Couldn't be too hard to just divert chips to spread market demand.
4) They have it out and are readying to release it and we are just not being patient.

Speaking of patients...

[tteerts]

The reason I want a swappable HD is so that I can have a full HD for MacOSX and since a lot of medical software that I use doesn't allow MacOSX, I could also have a full HD for Windows. When at work I could just pop in the windows HD and at home the Mac HD.

Now as for Mac not having the C2D out yet, I think that it is one of four likely reasons.

1) There is a design flaw (not too likely since it is just a drop in and the chip doesn't pump out that more heat) or Apple is finishing up a fresh design (hopefully).
2) There is a financial tactic, i.e. need to clear old stock, not best release time for market impact, etc.
3) They don't have the chips to make. Although this seems plausible since Apple is relatively a small player (compared to Dell or IBM/Lenovo) for Intel (5th in laptop market share and less than 5% of computer users). Of course, Intel is going to give the majority of chips to their oldest, largest customers (especially with the growing AMD). But, I don't see why they couldn't have shifted some chips from Mini (doesn't that use Merom? If so, then that destroys Mac-diehard arguments that Apple just got chips). Couldn't be too hard to just divert chips to spread market demand.
4) They have it out and are readying to release it and we are just not being patient.

Speaking of patients...

Mini does not yet have Merom...

[tyroja00]

Mini does not yet have Merom...

Sorry, I meant iMac...doesn't that have Merom and that was on the 6th of Sept. So, hasn't Apple has had them for a while?

[Khameleeon]

So when's the NEXT Apple Event that we can all look forward to and then be disappointed at? :p

[imMAColata]

I told her to wait it out until 9.25 at the earliest then buy it.

She has been waiting with me ever since I found out about merom in June. She broke after it wasn't announced this Tuesday.

She's going to feel regret I fear when it's announced in 10 days.

Or she is going to feel regret that she let you talk into waiting 3 months.

[absurdio]

Sorry, I meant iMac...doesn't that have Merom and that was on the 6th of Sept. So, hasn't Apple has had them for a while?

Yeah, but it's still possible that Apple just hasn't got enough Merom chips to feed the potential demand for Merom iMacs AND Merom MBPs. That might explain the delay, i suppose.

Still, then i just wonder why Apple would opt to stick Meroms in their iMacs before their MBPs.

[ChickenSwartz]

Yeah, but it's still possible that Apple just hasn't got enough Merom chips to feed the potential demand for Merom iMacs AND Merom MBPs. That might explain the delay, i suppose.

Still, then i just wonder why Apple would opt to stick Meroms in their iMacs before their MBPs.

Especially when there is a perfectly good desktop version of Core2Duo that Apple is not using.

EDIT: Putting Merom in the iMac and in the MBP and in the MB might equal the kind of orders that Lenovo and Sony and Gateway are putting in, this should keep the chips rolling out.

[undead-design]

Santa Rosa is supposedly going to be released in March sometime is that correct? So, if Apple waits until the end of October to release the C2D MPBs its lifeline (until a new release that is) is less than or just about 5 months. Does that seem troublesome to anyone else? Or maybe this is normal for Intel. I haven't had anything other then an Apple for years so I never paid attention.

This just kinda sucks cause there is no way I am paying full price for the CD MBP knowing full well that it'll be underpowered for what I need it to do in a month. Then there is the fact that if this is just a processor boost when it comes out, I should just wait longer even though I need to get one for my classes next spring semester. :confused:

[ChickenSwartz]

1) There is a design flaw (not too likely since it is just a drop in and the chip doesn't pump out that more heat) or Apple is finishing up a fresh design (hopefully).
2) There is a financial tactic, i.e. need to clear old stock, not best release time for market impact, etc.
3) They don't have the chips to make. Although this seems plausible since Apple is relatively a small player (compared to Dell or IBM/Lenovo) for Intel (5th in laptop market share and less than 5% of computer users). Of course, Intel is going to give the majority of chips to their oldest, largest customers (especially with the growing AMD). But, I don't see why they couldn't have shifted some chips from Mini (doesn't that use Merom? If so, then that destroys Mac-diehard arguments that Apple just got chips). Couldn't be too hard to just divert chips to spread market demand.
4) They have it out and are readying to release it and we are just not being patient.

Speaking of patients...

1. This is possible. If they already comitted to changing the design somewhat, and something happened, they might be "fixing" the new design.
2. This is very likely. They might have over produced what they thought they were going to sell at back-to-school so they are trying to cut their losses.
3. Doubt it. They just signed on with Intel, there is no way Intel would push them aside at Apple's first new Intel chip anouncement. It looks good for the best Intel ships to be in Macs and since (well it seemed like this would be the case) Apple always has the best processors in their computers, Intel would gladly have enough of the top of the line chips for them since these chips probably have the highest profit margin for Intel.
4. Maybe. I guess we will see next Tuesday or so...

[tarjan]

I would probably be really pissed, if I didnt have my thinkpad t43 (that drives me crazy because of the 280mb of wasted ram due to drivers to make it work) and the new cheap mac mini I picked up this past weekend to act as my media pc in my family room. Currently playing Tool in front row being shared by my windows xp box in the basement running itunes.

Sounds fantastic on my magnepan 3.5s. Ahh 750w+ of power! :D

[oneighturbo]

hey everyone. been busy so havent had the chance to pop in here.

anyays, photokina came and went.. merom or no merom i was perfectly content with... my new MBP

http://static.flickr.com/103/252773583_52ecb365c0_m.jpg

check out all my images on my flickr page in my sig.

i am super happy with it to say the least and not one bit disappointed. now i just need RAM!!!!!!!! (BTW it does run very well with 512)

[ChickenSwartz]

This just kinda sucks cause there is no way I am paying full price for the CD MBP knowing full well that it'll be underpowered for what I need it to do in a month. Then there is the fact that if this is just a processor boost when it comes out, I should just wait longer even though I need to get one for my classes next spring semester. :confused:

What are you going to be doing in a month that you aren't doing now? If you are planning on doing computing that, in a month, will make CD obsolete then you might consider getting a much more powerful computer than the MBP.

[erockerboy]

WHERE IS IT????

WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?

OMIGODDDDD..... WHEREISITWHEREISITWHEREISIT?????!?!?!?!?

I think my VISA card is going to spontaneously combust.... right after I go into cardiac arrest and my brain liquefies, Ebola-style. CURSE YOU STEVE JOBS!!!!!! WHERE IS IT?!?????

[elevatorjazz]

I heard from a fellow that worked at Apple (in R&D) that the heat generated by the laptops were something of concern that they were advising be taken into consideration. Not too sure what that means, but this fellow mentioned that he/ she found that the current hinge design was egregiously inefficient for ventilation. So that's my two cents.

[SiCbe]

almost 1000 posts in one day? :D sunday it was still 1000 posts and now it's up to more than 2000 :D


well waiting for the MBP just leave's me more time to save up on money so maybe I can buy the 17inch instead of the 15 :D + more RAM + more HD...

so that's thinking positive ;)

[nodabs]

I'm thinking of getting a mac mini to hold me over until the upgrade finally happens on the MBP... anyone have any input as to how the Intel graphics unit in the mini would handle something like Photoshop and Illustrator CS2 (given the system has the full 2GB of RAM)??

[undead-design]

What are you going to be doing in a month that you aren't doing now? If you are planning on doing computing that, in a month, will make CD obsolete then you might consider getting a much more powerful computer than the MBP.


well considering that I am using an old 1ghz iBook G4 right now I can't use Aperture and Final Cut is dragging ass, the C2D would be perfect. My major is Photographic Illustration so being able to do huge projects and renderings with Photoshop and Aperture are key things of importance to me. Not that the CD would be bad, its more or less an issue that I might not be buying another computer for 3 years again....so getting the best one I can get right now and having it be able to do what I need until the breaking point again. Buying a CD MBP right now wouldn't benefit me as I have already been waiting since July.

[Reach]

The wait already taken is what economists refer to as a "sunk cost". It should not be taken into consideration when you decide if you should buy now or not! ;) But yea, I know it still matters, emotionally...

[Kenya]

hey everyone. been busy so havent had the chance to pop in here.

anyays, photokina came and went.. merom or no merom i was perfectly content with... my new MBP

http://static.flickr.com/103/252773583_52ecb365c0_m.jpg

check out all my images on my flickr page in my sig.

i am super happy with it to say the least and not one bit disappointed. now i just need RAM!!!!!!!! (BTW it does run very well with 512)

Congratulations onenightturbo!! I was wondering if you ever opened your box :)

--
Kenya

MBP today... MBP Saturday... MBP never

[ct-scan]

I'm thinking of getting a mac mini to hold me over until the upgrade finally happens on the MBP... anyone have any input as to how the Intel graphics unit in the mini would handle something like Photoshop and Illustrator CS2 (given the system has the full 2GB of RAM)??

I have a CD mini, with 2GB RAM, and use CS2 apps...and I'd say it's about as good as my PowerBook G4 (maybe just a little better). Universal apps a blazing fast, I love the mini. Final Cut Express runs great, so does ProTools, and Reason...but, as I said, all Universal.
You won't see much of a difference (I believe) between the CD and C2D for CS2 apps...Rosetta is great for what it is, but nothing compared to running an application natively.
You'll just have to run your Adobe products a bit slower than you want to...until (Q1/2) 2007.

[daneoni]

I am REALLY ticked off!, i mean what the heck is going on. Just announce the darn thing already, even if it wont ship till April next year. My dad keeps asking when i will be ready to get a new computer and its been like "lets wait till next tuesday". Its soo bad i went to play with the current MBPs today to buy one but just couldnt bring myself to getting one. Cant get an iMac as its impractical for me. MacPro would be ideal but i need mobility. Funny thing is the price of a MBP can get me an iMac AND a MacBook. So whats my problem?..i dunno, i guess wary of GMA 950.

I swear an Apple emplyee close to Jobs reads MacRumors and constantly updates Jobs on what people are predicting, so he (Jobs) can be one step ahead. I wont be surprised if Steve announces these machines 2AM Christmas morning just so he can point and laugh at rumor sites.

[iMinnesotan]

I wont be surprised if Steve announces these machines 2AM Christmas morning just so he can point and laugh at rumor sites

Clenched fists on hips. "Bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha!" Reindeer falls off roof.

[ckodonnell]

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/index.blog?entry_id=1563164

Just so we know we're not alone.

[daneoni]

Hey i just noticed i got promoted from "regular" to "6502". Noice!. At least something cheered me up today. Sigh....

[HecubusPro]

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/index.blog?entry_id=1563164

Just so we know we're not alone.

And at least it's on Wired instead of some blog like macshrine (not that there's anything wrong with macshrine.) Perhaps someone at apple will start to see more of these pieces from major publications and sites and get their butt in gear with releasing the damn MBP already. It's just getting stupid.

[Next Tuesday]

And at least it's on Wired instead of some blog like macshrine (not that there's anything wrong with macshrine.) Perhaps someone at apple will start to see more of these pieces from major publications and sites and get their butt in gear with releasing the damn MBP already. It's just getting stupid.
Ive been reading these posts for months now. I just have to put my 2 cents in. I dont think that the core2duo upgrade is what most people are waiting for. I think it is more the random shutdowns/heat problem issue that people are waiting to be fixed as mbp's are 2,000$ +. I myself will not convert to a MAC until these issues are resolved. Its pointless to spend over two thousand dollars on a machine that will spend more time in repair than it will in your hands. I would buy a core duo mac today if there wasnt heat problems and random shutdowns.

[daneoni]

Ive been reading these posts for months now. I just have to put my 2 cents in. I dont think that the core2duo upgrade is what most people are waiting for. I think it is more the random shutdowns/heat problem issue that people are waiting to be fixed as mbp's are 2,000$ +. I myself will not convert to a MAC until these issues are resolved. Its pointless to spend over two thousand dollars on a machine that will spend more time in repair than it will in your hands. I would buy a core duo mac today if there wasnt heat problems and random shutdowns.

Dont forget the infamous whine as well as the latch issues. They claim its been fixed.....but thats still questionable

[DJMastaWes]

Another dissapointing day.

[Next Tuesday]

Dont forget the infamous whine as well as the latch issues. They calim its been fixed.....but thats still questionable
Oh yeh, ive heard they have a firmware update for the whine and i really havent heard anything too serious about the latch issue, but thanks for pointing those out too as i totally forgot about them. When those issues are resolved, I to, will be a pc to mac switcher.

[jfsouza]

I doubt Apple will wait for the Santa Rosa platform... and I'm 100% sure that the entire MacBook line will be updated sometime between now and the 26th of October.

[XtraSmiley]

Man, I'm sooooooo glad I bought a Macbook last week. It so rocks.

Is there anyway to tell what revision I have? I'm curious if I need to watch out for random shutdowns or discoloration problems.

[daneoni]

Man, I'm sooooooo glad I bought a Macbook last week. It so rocks.

Is there anyway to tell what revision I have? I'm curious if I need to watch out for random shutdowns or discoloration problems.

Revision is Rev A however week model is the 3rd and 4th digit of your serial number

[CellarDoor]

It seems to me, fellows, that the only reason feasible for the long wait all of us are suffering through has to come down to a new enclosure design. This has been suggested by many before me, and I find it's possibilities to my liking. Now, of course, there could be issues with supply, or perhaps unknown problems and QC had to swoop in. But, that isn't very interesting. Additionally, its very disheartening. So let's keep that torch burning, you that still remain stalwart by my side.

So.

My question to all of you, my MBPC2D family, is "What are your time-refined predictions?"
_
recessed keyboard?
magnetic latch?
^^^ok ok. makes sense.
_
Magnesium enclosure?
New optical drives?
lighter, stronger, scratch resistant?
^^^hmm... these have both been talked about, and are surely possible...
_
biometric scanning?
second touch-sensitive screen on the base next to keyboard for 'launching?'

who knows anymore. I don't. but I'm curious what you all think. As more and more time passes, our dreams of sugarplum latches and killer feature fairies will grow more and more visceral.

Let's predict.

[dclocke]

None. There are currently no known viruses for MacOS X (though there are some known security exploits) so there isn't any need for anti-virus software. This doesn't mean that there will never be such a need -- but right now there isn't.

Well... not to be too particular about semantics, but... There are no known viruses for Mac OS X. However, there are other malicious entities (which most laymen would call viruses) that DO exist on Mac OS X, such as: trojan horses, worms, rootkits, etc. It's difficult because it's a true statement (I believe) to say "there are no known viruses in the wild that infect OS X". But most consumers don't understand the caveats between viruses, worms, trojans, and rootkits, and it leads them to believe that OS X is immune from these things.

OS X is not immune from malicious code. People that write malicious code rely on statistics. They want to successfully infect as many computers as possible. Today, the overwhelming majority of computer users run Windows and Internet Explorer, which is why malicious code writers target these platforms instead of OS X. However, as soon as OS X users become a larger chunk of the market share for operating systems, we will start to see more and more exploits emerge. The move to the Intel architecture will make this transition even easier (simply because the Intel ISA is more widely used than that of the PPC).

Now, don't get me wrong. You will be much safer surfing around with OS X than with Windows (by many orders of magnitude). But it isn't because OS X is immune...it's because there aren't very many people interested in writing malicious code for OS X (less bang for their buck). It's the same principle behind using Firefox instead of IE: Firefox isn't necessarily more secure (in fact, a recent article I read suggested the current version of Firefox has more security vulnerabilities than IE) than IE, it's just less prevalent and therefore is less attractive from an exploit writer's point of view. I am a little more paranoid than the average user, however, and will be using antivirus software on my new MBP (once they're released, and once I order it).

Probably not the thread for this, but hey...no MBPs today and I'm bored.

[HecubusPro]

Ive been reading these posts for months now. I just have to put my 2 cents in. I dont think that the core2duo upgrade is what most people are waiting for. I think it is more the random shutdowns/heat problem issue that people are waiting to be fixed as mbp's are 2,000$ +. I myself will not convert to a MAC until these issues are resolved. Its pointless to spend over two thousand dollars on a machine that will spend more time in repair than it will in your hands. I would buy a core duo mac today if there wasnt heat problems and random shutdowns.

Most notebooks I've ever messed with (friends, collegues, stores, etc.) run hot, and are generally as hot, or hotter than the MBP is now. I would like to see that resolved as well, and I know they could providing for some better venting. But that still isn't the big issue for me.

What's interesting is what Engadget said a week ago--if true, the systems are basically built and ready to ship but apple's waiting on the marketing department to "pull the trigger" and get them on store shelves. Heat issues or not, the cases and computers wouldn't still be in R&D at this point. They'd be boxed and ready to go, sitting in warehouses collecting dust.

So it's on shaky faith we tell you that the latest in an already irritatingly long line of C2D MacBook (Pro) rumors has Cupertino's entire line of laptops done with the damned upgrades, and company just waiting on the marketing department to line 'em up and knock 'em out. Of course, it would be market-suicide if they didn't launch these before the holiday season (unless they wanted to bundle them with Vista that is -- we kid!), so don't be surprised if you wake up to some new Apple laptops any day now.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/19/so-where-the-hell-are-our-core-2-duo-macbooks/

I want all those cool additions as well (better gpu, mag-latch, easy access HDD bay, etc.), but at this point I'd just settle for a simple processor swap.

[shadowlander]

Ive been reading these posts for months now. I just have to put my 2 cents in. I dont think that the core2duo upgrade is what most people are waiting for. I think it is more the random shutdowns/heat problem issue that people are waiting to be fixed as mbp's are 2,000$ +. I myself will not convert to a MAC until these issues are resolved. Its pointless to spend over two thousand dollars on a machine that will spend more time in repair than it will in your hands. I would buy a core duo mac today if there wasnt heat problems and random shutdowns.

Okay. Maybe I have the ONLY MBP that isn't wrought with problems--but I find that hard to believe. I am...prepare yourself...a proud owner of a BTO Rev A MBP (15"/100 MB 7200 rpm/2.16 ghz). Ordered it right after they were announced. It has never shut down on me—ever—and the heat isn't significantly more untolerable than my old Pismo. Is it hot? Sure...but so was my Pismo. Which is why I got a coolpad for the Pismo--and continue to use it with my MBP.

I am interested in switching to the 17" if it has an easy access HDD for reasons posted earlier. As far as switching from PC to Mac? Man...I did that years ago and you could not pry OS X out of my cold dead fingers. I'll never go back to Windows.

[barkins]

This video (http://intel.feedroom.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a-653ba03d:10debae3dbf:5c99&st=1159303139161&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fr=092606_043905_w653ba03dx10debae3dbfx5c9b&rdm=556808.5653038801) from the Intel event just makes me sad.... they show off all these PC laptops with C2D.... and no MBP in sight. :(

[XtraSmiley]

Revision is Rev A however week model is the 3rd and 4th digit of your serial number

Not to derail this awesome thread even further (OK, actually, I guess I will), but any links to what "week model" means in terms of problems? My MB shipped with the most current firmware, so I'm assuming that it's the most recent week model as well. Does that mean no "whine" or "discoloration" for me?

[ChickenSwartz]

Not to derail this awesome thread even further...

No, please do.

[RichP]

hey everyone. been busy so havent had the chance to pop in here.

anyays, photokina came and went.. merom or no merom i was perfectly content with... my new MBP

http://static.flickr.com/103/252773583_52ecb365c0_m.jpg

check out all my images on my flickr page in my sig.

i am super happy with it to say the least and not one bit disappointed. now i just need RAM!!!!!!!! (BTW it does run very well with 512)

sweet release...

[AlphaAnt]

and I'm 100% sure that the entire MacBook line will be updated sometime between now and the 26th of October.
Famous Last Words...

[HecubusPro]

This video (http://intel.feedroom.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a-653ba03d:10debae3dbf:5c99&st=1159303139161&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fr=092606_043905_w653ba03dx10debae3dbfx5c9b&rdm=556808.5653038801) from the Intel event just makes me sad.... they show off all these PC laptops with C2D.... and no MBP in sight. :(

Wow. That is a large line-up of systems with core 2 duo. What does Apple have available with C2D at this point? iMac. :confused:

[daneoni]

Not to derail this awesome thread even further (OK, actually, I guess I will), but any links to what "week model" means in terms of problems? My MB shipped with the most current firmware, so I'm assuming that it's the most recent week model as well. Does that mean no "whine" or "discoloration" for me?

Sufficive to say, you shouldnt have any issues with your machine

[aaronb]

You guys are idiots. If you REALLY want a Merom, just buy one from Intel. And then put it into the MBP, it is EASY. But You prolly need to be rich enuf to do that.

Haha, at this point, some of us would be trying that very thing, but the chips are soldered into the computer. So unless you are Johnny Weld-A-Lot, it's pretty much not a safe thing to try with a 2,500+ dollar notebook.

[daneoni]

You guys are idiots. If you REALLY want a Merom, just buy one from Intel. And then put it into the MBP, it is EASY. But You prolly need to be rich enuf to do that.

That is just idiotic. If you knew what you were talking about you would know you cant just "put" a Merom chip into a MBP.. Please research or better yet think before you type.

[HecubusPro]

You guys are idiots. If you REALLY want a Merom, just buy one from Intel. And then put it into the MBP, it is EASY. But You prolly need to be rich enuf to do that.

Really? Why didn't I think of this before?! ZOMG! I've been blind this whole time and all it took was some guy to call us all "idiots" before I realized how idiotic we've all been. It's just so EASY! Still, I don't know if I'm "rich" enough though. What do merom chips cost? Like a billion dollars, right? I don't know if I can afford it, so I'd better start saving now! Thanks dondark for being that beacon of light in the darkness to us all! You're so cool! :rolleyes:

[dclocke]

You guys are idiots. If you REALLY want a Merom, just buy one from Intel. And then put it into the MBP, it is EASY. But You prolly need to be rich enuf to do that.

Wow. You are officially a retard.

[topgun072003]

Really? Why didn't I think of this before?! ZOMG! I've been blind this whole time and all it took was some guy to call us all "idiots" before I realized how idiotic we've all been. It's just so EASY! Still, I don't know if I'm "rich" enough though. What do merom chips cost? Like a billion dollars, right? I don't know if I can afford it, so I'd better start saving now! Thanks dondark for being that beacon of light in the darkness to us all! You're so cool! :rolleyes:

wow that was mean, effective, and funny. Good job, you beat me to it. :p

[mrdice87]

Magnesium enclosure?



where were you during high school chemistry? magnesium is highly flammable, reacts with water at room temperature, and tarnishes to a dull black oxide very quickly in the presence of oxygen...

magnesium is used in the production of fireworks and marine flares...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

:D

[unstatusthequo]

Magnesium? Heh. Now a case with a sac would be Tungsten Carbide. You know, the metal used on diamond cutters. Might not help in keeping costs all that low, though. ;)

[Yichen]

You guys are idiots. If you REALLY want a Merom, just buy one from Intel. And then put it into the MBP, it is EASY. But You prolly need to be rich enuf to do that.

I guess he meant we should "just put it into the MBP", not "install it" :D :D

Then tell everybody: I have a Intel Core 2+1 Duo Chip in my MBP!

[mightymike107]

after reading this http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2081 I really feel justified in anticipating MBP with C2D in the near future.

quote:
"During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core 2 Duo platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line."

[topgun072003]

I guess he meant we should "just put it into the MBP", not "install it" :D :D

Then tell everybody: I have a Intel Core 2+1 Duo Chip in my MBP!

is there a slot for that? I never use this slot next to the headphone jack....maybe I can just stick it in there. I use it as a coin holder as it is. :D :D :D

[HecubusPro]

after reading this http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2081 I really feel justified in anticipating MBP with C2D in the near future.

quote:
"During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core 2 Duo platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line."

Just more evidence that begs the question: Why isn't the C2D MBP out today?

Core2 Duo ... was now the fastest-ramping product in the company's history, with 5 million units shipped since it was introduced less than 60 days ago.

[jfsouza]

5mil C2Ds shipped. WHY ARE THE NOT IN THE MACBOOKS!!! ARGEN BLARGEN!!!

[jfsouza]

Huh... I wonder if Apple will update the MacBook Pro's with the Core2 Extreme quad-core processor....?

[daneoni]

Huh... I wonder if Apple will update the MacBook Pro's with the Core2 Extreme quad-core processor....?

I wouldnt buy one. I like my nuts the way they are thank you very much.

[ThunderLounge]

I think you misunderstood. I was not referring to it being "forever" for the C2D's to arrive - rather between G4 or G5 updates. I am merely a casual observer here.. not particularly in the market for a new laptop (certainly not rabid for one), but simply curious. I was merely trying to make the point that I think that the Intel cycle will be much different that the IBM/Moto cycle. I have my fingers crossed that this is a good thing, which I think it will be.

Ok, that makes more sense.

I also agree with you on the Intel Cycle, and you bring up a great point.

We have to remember that Apple is still adjusting to the cycle of Intel chips. It may very well be that at least initially they will lag a tick with updates to Intel's latest and greatest. With the initial concerns of the original MB/MBP line, it may very well be a waiting game for even better engineering. They want to keep their cutting edge design philosophy, and aren't willing to compromise. If that's the case, and there have been even further heat concerns, then they're dealing with it I'm sure.

What this would translate into as far as time for a release is anyone's guess. However, when they finally do have an update, you know it will be a quality product. There might be a glitch here or there like the current models experienced, but they are still a sound product.

Also, as someone pointed out earlier, they are indeed now competing for chips with just about everyone else. We would like to think that Apple is at the top of the pecking order, but that very well may not be the case... yet.

While I don't know what the results were from the big Intel thing going on today, it at least sent my mind a message when Intel gave Apple the top two slots.

[jfsouza]

could be tomorrow then... i hope by the end of sept.

[NewSc2]

Nice job there, quoting an article about the Core 2 desktop processor and not about Merom.

Meroms were announced by Intel at the end of July. They were not released, however, until August 27th. The next day, dozens of laptop companies released their Merom laptops, most of which had shipping dates 2-4 weeks later. Apple is not (yet, at least) far behind.

For most of those companies, it was as simple as dropping a chip into an already existing model and chucking it out on the market. Apple is in need of a major update to a number of other things with their model, so they (hopefully) are fixing those and releasing a quality product. If you want a C2D MBP go buy a CD and a separate Merom chip and find someone to solder the C2D on in the CD's place. I, for one, am waiting around in hopes of having a working computer.

Okay, I linked the wrong link (was looking at both Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Duo Mobile pages. Here's the right link (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808&p=1)

Still, looking at the MBP, it was announced on January 10, 2006, (http://guides.macrumors.com/MacBook_Pro) which was only 5 days after Yonah was released (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core). What I was saying was that Intel obviously gives Apple chips way before schedule so that Apple can plan out everything. Apple had to switch over from PowerPC to Intel chips, and they did that in the span of 5 days. The MBP's weren't shipping until a few weeks later, but that's the same timespan as Apple has had between this current Core2Duo delay.

Apple has been correcting its problems since Day 1 when they were reported.

I'm just impatient over why nothing's been announced. I want a quality MBP just like everybody else does.

[Pressure]

Huh... I wonder if Apple will update the MacBook Pro's with the Core2 Extreme quad-core processor....?

You should stop wondering altogether.

The Core 2 Quadro (Kentsfield) is a desktop chip.

[meepm00pmeep]

are there really that many problems with the current MBP? ever since i came onto these forums all i read is problems... it only represents a minority right?

*feeling queeezy about buying a MBP now*

[rvcontre]

Yeah, heopfully if we won't be getting the C2D MBP's anytime soon then there will at least be some upgrades in the feature set. That's my biggest reason for waiting. The speed increase isn't as important as new features. Here's my prediction based on what's been running around and what I'm hopeful for.

- Magnetic Latch
- Go 7900 GTX
- Whale Radar
- 8X DL DVD burner
- 2GB RAM standard on the 17" and 4GB total
- Argyle Sock Enhancer
- 801.11 N
- Swappable HDD
- Frenzied Midget
- Programmable Gesture Recognition (like in Black and White)
- "Mac"roorchidism

[jericho878]

The best thing about no MBP's yesterday or today is that I'm more certain that there will be a new form factor. Time for another great design leap forward from Jonathan Ive.

Personally, I think that the new MBP 17" will be more sleek and black aluminum.

[NewSc2]

Yeah, heopfully if we won't be getting the C2D MBP's anytime soon then there will at least be some upgrades in the feature set. That's my biggest reason for waiting. The speed increase isn't as important as new features. Here's my prediction based on what's been running around and what I'm hopeful for.

- Magnetic Latch
- Go 7900 GTX
- Whale Radar
- 8X DL DVD burner
- 2GB RAM standard on the 17" and 4GB total
- Argyle Sock Enhancer
- 801.11 N
- Swappable HDD
- Frenzied Midget
- Programmable Gesture Recognition (like in Black and White)
- "Mac"roorchidism

I don't think the 2GB RAM would come standard... Apple's RAM is expensive and I'm pretty sure they get a lot of custom configurations upping the RAM ( = $$$).

However, I think the Frenzied Midget is definitely a go. THAT's why we've been waiting so long...

[bob_hearn]

where were you during high school chemistry? magnesium is highly flammable, reacts with water at room temperature, and tarnishes to a dull black oxide very quickly in the presence of oxygen...

magnesium is used in the production of fireworks and marine flares...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

:D

By 1987, construction of a factory for their first product, the NeXTcube, was completed in Fremont. Stories about Jobs' demands for the factory and the cube are now legend,[citation needed] including the repainting of the factory several times in order to get just the right shade of gray, and the institution of a series of time-consuming changes to the production line so that the cube's expensive magnesium case would have perfect right-angle edges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT

[ThunderLounge]

The best thing about no MBP's yesterday or today is that I'm more certain that there will be a new form factor. Time for another great design leap forward from Jonathan Ive.

Personally, I think that the new MBP 17" will be more sleek and black aluminum.


Very possible. It would stand to reason that if all there was was a bump in processor, then it would have been out with the masses and not punched into the iMac.

That being said (and I'm just speculating here), with the upcoming arch. update this spring just what if they already had a jump on it and were releasing the updated enclosure now? Then, when the time comes to update on the next round this spring, they will already be in a position to be first to the punch?

That might be wishful thinking, but not way out of line. Then again, we have no idea what Apple has in store for their next release. We can guess and hope all we want, but in the end it will be what it will be. However, I doubt it will be disappointing.

[ergle2]

where were you during high school chemistry? magnesium is highly flammable, reacts with water at room temperature, and tarnishes to a dull black oxide very quickly in the presence of oxygen...

magnesium is used in the production of fireworks and marine flares...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

:D

And also in hard, lightweight protective cases (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22magnesium+case%22&btnG=Search).

And, of course, notebook computers (http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/t-series/workstation.html).

[btgordon]

For me, I am waiting on the edge as a switcher just to get a faster video card, fater processor, and some of thos goodies the macbook has.

[ChickenSwartz]

The best thing about no MBP's yesterday or today is that I'm more certain that there will be a new form factor.

I hope so and I hope it will be soon.

[extraextra]

I scrolled though this thread.. intense!


I hope there's a redesign of the MBP too. Maybe like.. a smaller size. Honestly, I thought the 15" MBP was a 17" MBP at the store. But that might've been because it was next to a 12" iBook.

[ThunderLounge]

after reading this http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2081 I really feel justified in anticipating MBP with C2D in the near future.

quote:
"During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core 2 Duo platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line."


Some things I found interesting in this:

As part of his own speech, Otellini outlined the Intel's plan to accelerate its technology leadership and told thousands of developers and engineers at the conference that advances in silicon technology will deliver new performance breakthroughs in an era of energy-efficient computing.

That's exactly why Apple switched right there. Especially the "energy-efficient computing" note.

And for some added controversy... :D

Intel's mainstream quad-core processor will be shipped in the first quarter of 2007 and will be called the Intel Core2 Quad processor. For servers, the Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor 5300 series brand for dual processor servers will be shipped this year, and a new low-power 50-watt Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor L5310 for blade servers that will be shipped in the first quarter of 2007.

Low power, Quad-Core Xeon targeted for blade servers.

The question is, is it thin/small enough? OK, so it's stretching it. But just what if the engineers at Apple are saying screw dual core, and ramping up for Quad-Core Xeons? They would probably generate more heat in a server usage, than a notebook. But if there was a better enclosure, it could handle it perhaps.

OK, that is way off the wall. But, isn't the mobile C2D something like 56W for power, as is the CD?

This Quad-Core is 50W, so that seems to be in line in terms of power consumption. I guess it would come down to the physical size of the chip.

Sure, it's way out there like I said, but it makes you wonder. Just maybe, Apple has a few tricks up its sleeve.

Yes, that's speculation, so don't go overboard with it. ;)

[Pressure]

I scrolled though this thread.. intense!


I hope there's a redesign of the MBP too. Maybe like.. a smaller size. Honestly, I thought the 15" MBP was a 17" MBP at the store. But that might've been because it was next to a 12" iBook.

Heh, the size difference between the MacBook and MacBook Pro isn't as hefty as that. The MacBook Pro is probably still the thinnest 15.4" out there.

[Pressure]

OK, that is way off the wall. But, isn't the mobile C2D something like 56W for power, as is the CD?

This Quad-Core is 50W, so that seems to be in line in terms of power consumption. I guess it would come down to the physical size of the chip.

Sure, it's way out there like I said, but it makes you wonder. Just maybe, Apple has a few tricks up its sleeve.

Yes, that's speculation, so don't go overboard with it. ;)

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 31Watt. Merom (Core 2 Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 35Watt.

My guess is that the Low-power Quad-core is clocked at 1.60Ghz.

[Madboots]

I submit! I have been following this forum thread and many others for weeks now and its become unbearable, every rumour provides yet another thin sliver of hope and yet nothing comes, paris expo, photokina and the imacs all came and went with the hype surrounding this update coming and going with them.

I have just placed my order for the top range 17inch MBP, it will arrive in about 2 weeks. If the update comes before it arrives i will cancel it, if not i dont really care. Plus the apple education site throw in a free (majority rebate) ipod and 8percent discount before october 7th, but more than anything it takes my mind off these forums and back on my studies which is the whole point of this machine really.

gain some perspective guys, dont stress yourselves.

[ThunderLounge]

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 31Watt. Merom (Core 2 Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 35Watt.

My guess is that the Low-power Quad-core is clocked at 1.60Ghz.

Cool. I found a PDF on Intel's site that (for some reason) listed both the CD and C2D as 56W each.

That would really smack some other manufacturer's butts though... they think Apple is lagging and then all of a sudden they go "Quad" and kill em.

Ahhh... the bliss of a pipedream. :D

[chris07]

I just called the Century City Apple Store here in Los Angeles and asked if they had any 17" MBP's in stock. He checked and said he had 3 in stock. I asked if that was normal and he said, "No. We're running out." I asked him if they were getting another shipment soon and he told me they just received a shipment and got "a lot of stuff."

Take that as you will, because at this point I have no idea what it means.

Good observation, HecubusPro! I hope that this "sign" will turn into something meaningful, unlike our last "leads" :( I am going to try calling up the Palo Alto Apple Store...it's a pretty big store, so if I get anything hopeful, I'll post back on here. Wish me luck :)

[Pressure]

Cool. I found a PDF on Intel's site that (for some reason) listed both the CD and C2D as 56W each.

That would really smack some other manufacturer's butts though... they think Apple is lagging and then all of a sudden they go "Quad" and kill em.

Ahhh... the bliss of a pipedream. :D

The low-power Quad-core is not intended for notebooks though. ;)

[ThunderLounge]

gain some perspective guys, dont stress yourselves.


But... where's the fun in that?

Isn't speculating about what's in the box sitting under the tree half the fun? :D

Hey, enjoy your new MBP. It's still a fine specimen of computing power.
Just read the couple of posts from the folks that had them sitting in the
box in their house, waiting to see if the update happened. Talk about
will power. However, they've been all smiles once they opened the box. ;)

[Madboots]

But... where's the fun in that?

Isn't speculating about what's in the box sitting under the tree half the fun? :D

Hey, enjoy your new MBP. It's still a fine specimen of computing power.
Just read the couple of posts from the folks that had them sitting in the
box in their house, waiting to see if the update happened. Talk about
will power. However, they've been all smiles once they opened the box. ;)

Thx mate :)

[nevir]

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 31Watt. Merom (Core 2 Duo) has a Thermal Design Power of 35Watt.

My guess is that the Low-power Quad-core is clocked at 1.60Ghz.

Yeah, but isn't that the *heat* output, and not necessarily the power consumption?

[ThunderLounge]

The low-power Quad-core is not intended for notebooks though. ;)

I know. :(

But it's fun to dream.

Although, I'm sure they'll end up with a mobile version at some point and we'll all look back and have a laugh as the saying "that is so... dual core" comes into existance as the phrase "that's so 1995" (or whatever) has. lol

:D

[ergle2]

Cool. I found a PDF on Intel's site that (for some reason) listed both the CD and C2D as 56W each.

That would really smack some other manufacturer's butts though... they think Apple is lagging and then all of a sudden they go "Quad" and kill em.

Ahhh... the bliss of a pipedream. :D

It ain't gonna happen. Quite aside from the various other issues, as pressure said, Yonah and Merom are 31W and 35W (or 34W on some sites, oddly), and some Yonah owners found that too hot for the cooling provided.

Beyond that, bear in mind a quad 1.6GHz chip would be significantly slower for many tasks than a 2.0GHz dual core chip, as many tasks don't parallelize well or just haven't been coded to take advantage of multiple processors.

When all the software uses is 1 or 2 cores, that 20% advantage in clock-speed matters.

[ergle2]

I know. :(

But it's fun to dream.

Although, I'm sure they'll end up with a mobile version at some point and we'll all look back and have a laugh as the saying "that is so... dual core" comes into existance as the phrase "that's so 1995" (or whatever) has. lol

:D

Almost everyone I know is still using single-core desktops, never mind laptops... :)

[chris07]

Well, I just phoned Apple Store Palo Alto, and spoke to a curt salesman. I simply asked if they had any 17" MBP's in stock, and I was told they did. And I replied by asking if they would be in stock if I came in tomorrow or the following day and he replied "I don't see why they wouldn't be, thanks, bye" then he left. My plan didn't go as well as I thought it would :p

[mrdice87]

And also in hard, lightweight protective cases (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22magnesium+case%22&btnG=Search).

And, of course, notebook computers (http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/t-series/workstation.html).


Magnesium and magnesium alloy are two very different things...

The alloy is mostly aluminium, with only a small part magnesium

As a metal, this element's principal use is as an alloying additive to aluminium with these aluminium-magnesium alloys being used mainly for beverage cans.


I also like how "incendiary bombs" was listed under other uses... i just hope none of those thinkpads with exploding batteries were made out of magnesium :eek:

[PowerBookG5]

after reading this http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2081 I really feel justified in anticipating MBP with C2D in the near future.

quote:
"During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core 2 Duo platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line."

notice the difference...

During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line.


I'm just as bummed as all of you. I have been waiting for an update since the summer and now the student discount is out. I have $2500 just waiting here to get me a new C2D Macbook Pro!!!

[ergle2]

Magnesium and magnesium alloy are two very different things...

The alloy is mostly aluminium, with only a small part magnesium

Indeed -- the colloquial term for such cases is "magnesium" tho' :)

I remember setting fire to magnesium in school... t'was brief but fun.

I also like how "incendiary bombs" was listed under other uses... i just hope none of those thinkpads with exploding batteries were made out of magnesium :eek:

Heh.

I only read of one incident of an exploding ThinkPad, and it was using a third party battery. Apparently, the room was coated with carbon, a flying piece of battery took out an LCD display nearby and the smell was awful.

I forget where I saw it or else I'd link it, the pics were pretty interesting...

Those ThinkPad cases are generally very hard-wearing, too...

[daneoni]

The best thing about no MBP's yesterday or today is that I'm more certain that there will be a new form factor. Time for another great design leap forward from Jonathan Ive.

Personally, I think that the new MBP 17" will be more sleek and black aluminum.

I dunno, if i were steve (which i'm not) i'd save the new form factor/design for when santa rosa debuts. That way you get sleek new form factor, faster bus, 802.11n (official) and plenty other goodies.

The intel transition saw slight changes in design for all models except iMac/Mini. So it makes sense to change designs with major transitions/architectural changes in platforms

[ergle2]

I dunno if i were steve (which i'm not) i'd save the new form factor/design for when santa rosa debuts. That way you get sleek new form factor, faster bus, 802.11n (official) and plenty other goodies.

That'd be my guess.

Tho' IMO Santa Rosa's not terribly exciting, Robson aside. There's no certainty that 802.11n will even by ratified by Santa Rosa's launch, either.

[ThunderLounge]

notice the difference...

During the brief appearance, Schiller touted Intel's new Core platform and discussed how Apple has been able to innovate with sleek form factors and leverage the Intel Core family of processors across its entire computing product line.



Damn, nice catch. How right you are. Someone's done a little editing... :eek:

Why do I hear Kyle and Stan's voices ringing in my head? :D

[mooncaine]

I gotta get me one of them Argyle Sock Enhancers, my gracious, oh yes.

[ergle2]

Damn, nice catch. How right you are. Someone's done a little editing... :eek:

Why do I hear Kyle and Stan's voices ringing in my head? :D

... because this thread's claimed the sanity of yet another person? :)

[mightymike107]

Damn, nice catch. How right you are. Someone's done a little editing... :eek:

Why do I hear Kyle and Stan's voices ringing in my head? :D

wow, they went back and changed it, it wasn't me, i swear. they also added photos.

[ThunderLounge]

Almost everyone I know is still using single-core desktops, never mind laptops... :)

My main work desktop is a lamp shade, at a whopping 1.25GHz still running with Jaguar.

Granted, I'm not doing graphic work on this machine and it's my main email / client interaction unit, and I use it for SSH, and other stuff too. But it's 3yrs old and still kicking like a champ.

I have a PowerMac G5 for graphic work and heavy application development, but you get my point (which is your point). ;)

[mightymike107]

hmm, yeah, check out the comments from appleinsider

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67115

in the first comment (i.e the article) they definately say c2d

[ThunderLounge]

... because this thread's claimed the sanity of yet another person? :)

Well, to claim sanity would imply that it existed for claiming as a loss in the first place.

Something I'm not sure I can say at the moment, for myself. :)

Then again, all this update speculation does take its toll. Whether it's today, NT, or whatever. I'm just excited to see what they come up with when they do.

[jfsouza]

A Core 2 Duo update to the MacBook lineup is imminent. Apple would not update the iMac with C2D and leave its other models hanging or waiting for Santa Rosa or something else.

[mrdice87]

of course it's imminent... I just ordered one monday


is it true that apple won't take returns on ADC store products? If so, I'm gonna use my mbp till the new ones come out, then put it on eBay...

[ThunderLounge]

hmm, yeah, check out the comments from appleinsider

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67115

in the first comment (i.e the article) they definately say c2d

Certainly so. Being it's a pro-Apple site, I'd like to think it was a simple typo. Hopefully so.


It does bring up a nice point though, that is again mentioned later in the comments.

5M chips shipped since release isn't a lot between all the manufacturers.

Also, if Apple tends to put the top of the line in the next revision, that number becomes even less to share between everyone. So the lack of an update could very well be a simple supply and demand issue. Waiting for enough of a chip flow, to be able to produce enough to meet what Apple anticipates the demand will be for the updated lines, seems at least plausible to me.

It makes me wonder that if the addition to the iMac was because the number of sales were more feasible to manage than for the MB/MBP lines? I don't know what the current sales ratio would be, but it would seem that they thought the iMac would be easier to manage with the chips initially than the MB/MBP family. If so, then at least they have something shipping with a C2D instead of nothing.

[sjsharks27]

I was wondering what exactaly will be the exact difference between Santa Rosa and Merom?????

And do any of you have a clue to when the next POSSIBLE date for a Merom release in the MBP is?????

:confused:

[PowerBookG5]

ok it does say C2D, but he also says they have been able to leverage the whole Core family into apple's line, which is true. he doesn't say that they have C2D's in all of them, but the "Core" family.

I am starting to get a little ticked off though, Apple takes way way to long to update its laptops.

[aaronb]

My question is how far can Apple laptops upgrade before dispensing WAY too much heat?

Will there ever be a point where Apple cannot put a faster processor in without changing the design because of the significant source of heat?

[ergle2]

My question is how far can Apple laptops upgrade before dispensing WAY too much heat?

Will there ever be a point where Apple cannot put a faster processor in without changing the design because of the significant source of heat?

Probably. At a guess, the MBP will change design within the next 12 months anyway tho'.

[daneoni]

I was wondering what exactaly will be the exact difference between Santa Rosa and Merom?????

And do any of you have a clue to when the next POSSIBLE date for a Merom release in the MBP is?????

:confused:

Merom is a processor, santa rosa is a platform. Kinda like Pentiume 4 (Processor) & Netburst (Platform)

MBP release should happen between now and the 26th of October as someone suggested.

[mrdice87]

Merom is a processor, santa rosa is a platform. Kinda like Pentiume 4 (Processor) & Netburst (Platform)

wasn't netburst the chip architecture?

[daneoni]

wasn't netburst the chip architecture?

Thats what i meant. I guess "architecture" is a more better word for it. English isnt my first language.

[ThunderLounge]

I was wondering what exactaly will be the exact difference between Santa Rosa and Merom?????

Merom is the Intel codename for the C2D chip that's everyone is discussing in this thread.

Santa Rosa is the next generation architecture that the chip will run on.

Two completely different things. If you read back several pages, maybe 20 or 30 at this point, someone posted quite a nice summary about SR, and what exactly it is.



And do any of you have a clue to when the next POSSIBLE date for a Merom release in the MBP is?????

:confused:

Nobody but Apple knows for sure. We're all just guessing here. Rumor's can be one thing, and generate a lot of hype. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don't. The running joke is "Next Tuesday", but it seems that even though it hasn't been announced yet this week, that it should be updated within about 6 weeks or so at the latest. But, that isn't from Apple either. It comes down to the fine point of Apple will announce it when they are ready, and not before. No matter how many rumors are out there. Eventually, one will be right.

The funny thing is that the "sources" reporting the recent rumor all have pretty good track records. But you know how it goes, you can't win 'em all.

[ergle2]

Merom is a processor, santa rosa is a platform. Kinda like Pentiume 4 (Processor) & Netburst (Platform)

MBP release should happen between now and the 26th of October as soomeon suggested.

NetBurst was the chip arch, not the platform. NetBurst is akin to Core.

Napa consists of Yonah or Merom + i945 Express (chipset) / ICH7 + Intel 802.11g.

Santa Rosa will be Merom + Crestline (i965 express) / ICH8 + Kedron (802.11n) + Robson tech.

Both have optional integrated graphics solutions, GMA950 and X3000 respectively.

[mrdice87]

architecture = design of the processor's internal components (ie cache, pathways, and such). the architecture is usually used to make several lines of chips, like how Core 2 is used in merom, conroe, and woodcrest.

platform = everything on the motherboard, including processor, chipset, fsb, integrated wifi, and other things. i believe the current mobile platform is napa, which will be replaced by santa rosa



edit: ergle2's description is much more thorough... and he beat me to it

[ergle2]

architecture = design of the processor's internal components (ie cache, pathways, and such). the architecture is usually used to make several lines of chips, like how Core 2 is used in merom, conroe, and woodcrest.

platform = everything on the motherboard, including processor, chipset, fsb, integrated wifi, and other things. i believe the current mobile platform is napa, which will be replaced by santa rosa

Bingo :)

The Merom version of Napa has been referred to in some (fairly old) docs as "Napa64" but I've not seen that for a while so I'm guessing they dropped that and kept it as "Napa" even when Merom is used.

[ChickenSwartz]

MBP release should happen between now and the 26th of October as soomeon suggested.

What is the significance of this date?

[tennisclay]

1st post here after reading many times. what would be the benefits of me waiting for the new Macbooks to come out. Im looking at the 2.0 GHz Macbook right now. Should I wait? This will be my first Mac.

[ergle2]

1st post here after reading many times. what would be the benefits of me waiting for the new Macbooks to come out. Im looking at the 2.0 GHz Macbook right now. Should I wait? This will be my first Mac.

The processor in current systems is the Core Duo (aka Yonah).

The Core 2 Duo Mobile (Merom) is expected to replace Yonah any day now. Merom offers ~5-20% performance improvements at roughly the same power usage, and in some rare cases over 100% improvement (SSE-heavy code).

The "biggie" for Merom is it supports EM64T, Intel's 64bit mode, which should lead to performance improvements in the future. At launch, it's highly unlikely Merom will use this but with the launch of future versions of MacOS it almost certainly will.

So, small improvements now and a potentially longer life.

Some people also think/want/hope-for other improvements, such as a better GPU etc. at the same time.

Bear in mind no-one really knows what will happen beyond it's fairly certain we'll see an MBP refresh this year with a Merom processor in it.

Should you wait? Only you can decide that really...

[Andrew F]

MBP release should happen between now and the 26th of October as someone suggested.

MBP release should have already been released. But I guess that is what a company that is capable of keeping up with Intel would say. And all of us on here. Apple is behind with their hardware. They sell a pro laptop at a premium price with an outdated chip. The update better be awesome. They need to at least fix the heat issue that has plaqued the Apple laptops for the last three or so years. Three years with the same problem, and what does Apple do? They keep putting hotter componets in the notebooks. If you look at it that way, maybe it is not surprising the Merom MB/P are coming out so late. I am super excited to be a switcher, I just need Apple to cure my hunger and desire. DO IT SOON!

[HecubusPro]

I've seen two core 2 duo commercials on TV today. One at work and one at home. It's a little frustrating seeing them pimp them on tv, knowing that people can go out and get c2d machines right now, and we dutifully wait, like obedient lapdogs, for our c2d mbp's.

[jfsouza]

couple questions
first, Santa Rosa will be the desktop platform to, no?
second, SSE has to do with graphics processing right? like AltiVec?

[ChickenSwartz]

1st post here after reading many times. what would be the benefits of me waiting for the new Macbooks to come out. Im looking at the 2.0 GHz Macbook right now. Should I wait? This will be my first Mac.

I think for the computting you should expect from a MacBook Core Duo will be plenty. If you need I would buy, no hesitation. It might closer to thanksgiving before we see C2D in Macbooks. I highly doubt there will be any changes made to the MacBook other than the new processor, which, again, will offer a marginal increase in power, an increase that you might never see.

[ChickenSwartz]

I've seen two core 2 duo commercials on TV today. One at work and one at home. It's a little frustrating seeing them pimp them on tv, knowing that people can go out and get c2d machines right now, and we dutifully wait, like obedient lapdogs, for our c2d mbp's.

i saw one tonight as well. "Core 2 Duo, the best processor in the world."
or something like that

Dosen't Apple claim they make the best computers? (i assume becasue ever company says their products are best :) )

So the best computers no longer have the best processors? :eek: ...:( ...:mad:

[tennisclay]

I think for the computting you should expect from a MacBook Core Duo will be plenty. If you need I would buy, no hesitation. It might closer to thanksgiving before we see C2D in Macbooks. I highly doubt there will be any changes made to the MacBook other than the new processor, which, again, will offer a marginal increase in power, an increase that you might never see.
so i shouldnt be affected by any future OS that much

[ChickenSwartz]

so i shouldnt be affected by any future OS that much

No. The next OS will run on both 32 and 64 bit. And, again, if you were planning on doing large scale, processor intense computting I would say hold out for the 64 bit, but I assume since you are looking at the MacBook this is not the case.

[ThunderLounge]

I've seen two core 2 duo commercials on TV today. One at work and one at home. It's a little frustrating seeing them pimp them on tv, knowing that people can go out and get c2d machines right now, and we dutifully wait, like obedient lapdogs, for our c2d mbp's.

Ditto. They we're even pimping them during South Park.

Nothing special about the actual commercial. It's your basic Intel chip ad with a "multiply" theme.

[mlw47]

Ditto. They we're even pimping them during South Park.

Nothing special about the actual commercial. It's your basic Intel chip ad with a "multiply" theme.



*sigh* why isnt' there a freaking c2d mbp on the market yet!

it's killing me.

[Neuroguy]

Hi Everyone,

I think this board is great. The news, opinions, and humor really help me through this MBP trimester. I especially enjoyed the post about "Apple announces cure for cancer...." "well, yeah, what about the Mac Book Pro?"

So, I am a recent convert, got my Dad a Mac(Mini) which he loves, as do I, and I am waiting for the Merom MBP for myself. Hopefully it will come soon. My old Gateway notebook with Windoze XP is getting buggier and less happy every day.

Also, while we wait, it has been fun watching this threat grow. I agree that Steve probably really enjoys watching us squirm.

I also hope you all realize that if the MBP Merom were a person, we would ALL be in prison for stalking.

-waiting patiently (?),
Neuroguy

PS. I knew it was bad when part of my first day of a week in San Diego was to locate the nearest Apple store, "just in case."

[topgun072003]

Does anyone want to get excited with me for the silent upgrade tomorrow? I'm not even going to buy one, I just love the excitement. :D

[Neuroguy]

Okay, I'm also excited for the Wednesday silent upgrade. After all, everyone at Apple was in Cologne for Photokina on Monday, just like when they were all away the Monday before the iMac bump.

So, yeah, I am hopeful for tomorrow. :D

[HecubusPro]

Does anyone want to get excited with me for the silent upgrade tomorrow? I'm not even going to buy one, I just love the excitement. :D

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?

[evisa]

i feel so defeated. i wake up in the morning not with the surge of adrenaline the first time MBPs were MOST likely to be announced, but instead thinking, 'eh, they're not out yet, so might as well keep the blood pressure in check.'

i had to start school without my first mac and instead got to get an eyeful of macbooks and mbps in my classes. sure, the cd mbps will be considered old once the c2d mbps come out, but they still have one and i don't :(


edit: i'll join!

[AlwaysRight]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?


i'll be member number 2

[evisa]

i'll be member number 2

you mean number 3 ;) (see above)

[shiv]

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?

Hello everyone, my name is Shiv and I have a problem.

[tringo]

Just think how depressed you'll be if they wait until Christmas to announce the C2D MBP. I think you need to put yourself out of the misery and get the damn laptop. The joy you receive until the announcement will offset the rougly 15% gain you are missing out on.

One lesson I have learned is that waiting for the next big thing from Apple is torture. Just get something when you want it.

[iBorg20181]

For most of those companies, it was as simple as dropping a chip into an already existing model and chucking it out on the market. Apple is in need of a major update to a number of other things with their model, so they (hopefully) are fixing those and releasing a quality product. If you want a C2D MBP go buy a CD and a separate Merom chip and find someone to solder the C2D on in the CD's place. I, for one, am waiting around in hopes of having a working computer.

Really? Why would it be any easier for any company, other than Apple, to upgrade from Yonah to Merom? Since the hardware components are now virtually the same for any notebook (and desktop) manufacturer to make, there's no reason for any company to be "left behind" as Apple appears to have been! "Major upgrades" are no different for Apple, unless their engineering R & D has been smoked by the competition! When new processor chips, graphics chips, RAM and hard drive technologies are available, Apple had better damn well be able to use them, now that we're all comparing "Apples to Apples." No more blaming Moto, or IBM, for not giving Apple bleeding-edge chips - Intel's making them, and Apple's not even hinting at an upgrade!

If Dell, and others, are selling notebooks with C2D chips at 2GHz and up, and Apple can't get enough to even announce them yet, WTF? Apple got first in line for Yonah, and after that, sent to the back of the line?

And if it's the "1 inch thick" design that prevents them from upgrading, then perhaps this is a flawed design, that's leaving them in a rut, unable to "compete with the big dogs?" They've had months to work on "major upgrades," unless they somehow couldn't foresee faster, hotter processors, despite inside information from Intel, well ahead of public knowledge! Heat problems, mooing, etc. since Yonah debuted in January, and now, 8-9 months later, still no design changes? Sheesh!

I want design flaws to be worked out, too, before I plunk down $2.5-3K on a new MBP, but damn it's hard to see "all the other kiddies getting their new toys from under the tree," when all I'm getting is an IOU from our favorite fruit maker!

Throw us a bone here, Apple!

:(

iBorg

[iBorg20181]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?

HecubusPro, you've captured what I've been feeling for the past week! It's like a heroin addict, waiting to score a fix! So many ups and downs, having excitement and anticipation building, only to feel it all come crashing down when the expected MBP upgrade fails to materialize!

Is there an Apple sponsored "12 step program" to help us deal with this? An Apple Sponsor to call when we're about to go over the edge? An Apple Crisis Hotline to call for help?

ARGHHHHHH!!!!!

:o

(ok, I'm done now ...... )

iBorg

[Neuroguy]

I guess I'll be member #4.

[absurdio]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?

Completely nailed it. Spot on, fellow. Some added pressures:
1) I have to call Applecare back and explain to them why i've been taking so long to get back to them on what configuration i want to replace this tibook, and i imagine their patience isn't limitless (though so far it has been shockingly plentiful).
2) This computer is dying fast.
3) The other side of the coin: when i bought this computer it was juuuuuuust before the aluminum powerbooks were released, so i know first-hand the misery of being immediately obsolete.

Here's to staying strong...one...day...at...a...time.

Edit: i'm starting to feel like apple is just a lousy, alcoholic step-dad.

[coday182]

I've moved a month's worth of supplies next to my computer, and have got a new keyboard with a new F5 button. I will be the first to post in this thread after they make the release.

[macman2790]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?
i feel the same way man i guess im the next member.

[Neuroguy]

Okay, standard Setup, the low-key John Hodgman (PC) and trendy Justin Long (Mac) standing in the "whitespace."

PC opens up a rather ugly Dell or HP C2D notebook, and is working along, wind blowing in his hair (indicating the speed).

Mac asks what he has there, and he explains its the new Core2Duo. Mac guys lowers his head and begins to slowly walk off the set.

PC guy calls after him "Don't worry, you'll get yours some Tuesday."

Switch to Steve Jobs in Black turtleneck and Jerry Stiller in leisure suit. Steve has a digitized zipper over his mouth, shaking his head, "No." Jerry Stiller is in his face, asking "When?! When!? When?!". Frustrated, Jerry Stiller walks toward the edge of the whitespace, and encounters the PC guy, still happily playing on his C2D notebook. Jerry Stiller kicks him in the groin, he goes down, and Jerry walks off the screen. In the distance, we hear him yell, "SERENITY NOW!"



Sorry if that wasn't funny, but its late.

[stefan15]

Forget marketshare, competition, appeal...
Apple needs to put that C2D into their laptops just to shut us all up!!! ;)

[Leej]

MBP 17" educational store price: $2599
MBP 17" government employee price: $2575
:) makes me happy!

Now I resume my impatient waiting...

[iBorg20181]

3) The other side of the coin: when i bought this computer it was juuuuuuust before the aluminum powerbooks were released, so i know first-hand the misery of being immediately obsolete.


Boy, do I know how that feels! I bought my $5,600, 292MHz "Wallstreet" when it arrived (10 years ago?), waited 3 months for it to ship, only to have the newer, faster, better "PDQ" debut less than one month later, at a cheaper price (much cheaper!), and a much better graphics chip. Made me feel like a chump, after such a long wait - never thought it'd be outdated so quickly, I didn't even have it broken in yet!

Next, my beloved Pismo, bleeding-edge for some time after buying it! No buyer remorse there!

Skip ahead to my 1 GHz TiBook, ordered 11/02, arriving in mid-December, about a month after ordering. Nervous anticipation, excited to get it .... faulty mobo required sending back to Apple, but worked great after that! Only to have the totally unexpected 17" AluBook debut 2 weeks later, with more features, no more peeling "Titanium" paint, and better value.

Next bought my G5 iMac, again so excited for my new technology, only to have upgraded, faster G5 iMac including iSight and Front Row, surprise us a few weeks later!

These weren't computers that I'd use for months and months before a new arrival, so I couldn't justify "how much time I'd saved," or "how much extra productivity I'd enjoyed," since it was never more than a few weeks!

So I'm damned well not gonna buy an outdated MBP now, with imminent upgrade to Merom!

(Well, I just need to keep telling myself that, to avoid the almost irresistable urge to punch in my Visa card numbers on the order page for the current MBP ..... I ..... must ..... resist ..... not futile ......... )

:eek:

iBorg

[ccroo]

Apple

[DavidCar]

I was encouraged by the report some pages ago here that the delay was because the ventilation on the MB/P was considered inadequate and is being redesigned. So when they finally come out, they should be more improved than just a processor upgrade.

So in the meantime, take a stress pill and mellow out.

[ccroo]

Apple really can't let the MBP's sit around without the new chip right?
Could this waiting really go on for weeks? A month?
Perhaps the MBP's are selling great and they have no need to satisfy us?

This is painful...

[PowerBookG5]

Okay, standard Setup, the low-key John Hodgman (PC) and trendy Justin Long (Mac) standing in the "whitespace."

PC opens up a rather ugly Dell or HP C2D notebook, and is working along, wind blowing in his hair (indicating the speed).

Mac asks what he has there, and he explains its the new Core2Duo. Mac guys lowers his head and begins to slowly walk off the set.

PC guy calls after him "Don't worry, you'll get yours some Tuesday."

Switch to Steve Jobs in Black turtleneck and Jerry Stiller in leisure suit. Steve has a digitized zipper over his mouth, shaking his head, "No." Jerry Stiller is in his face, asking "When?! When!? When?!". Frustrated, Jerry Stiller walks toward the edge of the whitespace, and encounters the PC guy, still happily playing on his C2D notebook. Jerry Stiller kicks him in the groin, he goes down, and Jerry walks off the screen. In the distance, we hear him yell, "SERENITY NOW!"



Sorry if that wasn't funny, but its late.

Haha, brilliant. I'm deciding between the 15" and the 17"...whenever the merom babies come out.. How much better is the 17" and what are some disadvantages.

[barkins]

Haha, brilliant. I'm deciding between the 15" and the 17"...whenever the merom babies come out.. How much better is the 17" and what are some disadvantages.

Lots of discussion on this topic. I for one will be getting the 15" Merom simply because the 17 incher defeats the purpose of a laptop for me. Way too big and bulky to lug around from class to class and then to the office.

But to each his own. If you're doing video editing, then you should definitely get the 17 incher.

[PowerBookG5]

Lots of discussion on this topic. I for one will be getting the 15" Merom simply because the 17 incher defeats the purpose of a laptop for me. Way too big and bulky to lug around from class to class and then to the office.

But to each his own. If you're doing video editing, then you should definitely get the 17 incher.

Im currently in school for Recording Industry, so my guess is somewhere along the line I'll have to do some. I think you get more bang for your buck anyway, plus i like to have as many ports as possible.

[jfsouza]

Boy, do I know how that feels! I bought my $5,600, 292MHz "Wallstreet" when it arrived (10 years ago?), waited 3 months for it to ship, only to have the newer, faster, better "PDQ" debut less than one month later, at a cheaper price (much cheaper!), and a much better graphics chip. Made me feel like a chump, after such a long wait - never thought it'd be outdated so quickly, I didn't even have it broken in yet!

Next, my beloved Pismo, bleeding-edge for some time after buying it! No buyer remorse there!

Skip ahead to my 1 GHz TiBook, ordered 11/02, arriving in mid-December, about a month after ordering. Nervous anticipation, excited to get it .... faulty mobo required sending back to Apple, but worked great after that! Only to have the totally unexpected 17" AluBook debut 2 weeks later, with more features, no more peeling "Titanium" paint, and better value.

Next bought my G5 iMac, again so excited for my new technology, only to have upgraded, faster G5 iMac including iSight and Front Row, surprise us a few weeks later!

These weren't computers that I'd use for months and months before a new arrival, so I couldn't justify "how much time I'd saved," or "how much extra productivity I'd enjoyed," since it was never more than a few weeks!

So I'm damned well not gonna buy an outdated MBP now, with imminent upgrade to Merom!

(Well, I just need to keep telling myself that, to avoid the almost irresistable urge to punch in my Visa card numbers on the order page for the current MBP ..... I ..... must ..... resist ..... not futile ......... )

:eek:

iBorg

wow those were some good stories
moral of the story

[barkins]

Im currently in school for Recording Industry, so my guess is somewhere along the line I'll have to do some. I think you get more bang for your buck anyway, plus i like to have as many ports as possible.

The only 2 ports I see myself using are for the USB Mighty Mouse and transfering photos from my camera.

[john123]

I'd just like you all to know that I am typing this on my very own MacBook Pro that I've had for a few months, and I've loved every minute of using it.

Including today.

Boy it sure is fast. Runs great. Slick graphics. Great machine. What a beast.

Does it bother me that some dude probably only a couple miles away is typing away on his Core2Duo machine right now? Um, not really. It's not even a wants vs needs thing. It's about the fact that the Meroms ain't that big a deal, especially for a laptop.

Man, this machine is fast...

Post-note: the funny thing, the angriest people in this forum are also the diehard people who will buy a MB/MBP at some point no matter what (or not at all). The actual impact on Apple's sales outlook of waiting for Meroms is actually quite small. That's the irony of having a niche market like Apple's: the angrier your customers, the more those same customers are loyal to a fault. Haha!

[ergle2]

couple questions
first, Santa Rosa will be the desktop platform to, no?
second, SSE has to do with graphics processing right? like AltiVec?

Santa Rosa is a mobile platform. It will likely show up in iMacs tho, as iMacs are using mobile CPUs etc. currently.

SSE is SIMD... so it can be used for graphics but has many other uses too. It's similar to AltiVec. It's also used for fast FP math on Intel.

[absurdio]

Apple really can't let the MBP's sit around without the new chip right?
Could this waiting really go on for weeks? A month?
Perhaps the MBP's are selling great and they have no need to satisfy us?


Yeah, if the C2D MBPs really are ready to go and Apple really is just waiting for the marketing department to pull the trigger, I suppose it's possible that it'd make economic sense for Apple to wait:
1) Presumably prices will not rise when the C2D MBPs are released.
2) Regardless of whether the upcoming MBPs are a total overhaul or just a processor swap, the (outdated) components of the (outdated) "current" MBPs have to cost Apple less than newer, better ones.
3) That means Apple has to be making more profit per MBP on the current MBPs than they would be on the soon-to-be-released versions.
4) So Apple may be conciously opting for less-in-demand-but-more-profitable MBPs - that is, of course, until the deminished demand outweighs the difference in profit-per-unit.
5) I can only imagine some genius marketing folks have determined exactly how many customers Apple is prepared to lose (to companies that DO offer C2D notebooks) before they have to start offering the more-in-demand-but-less-profitable C2D MBPs.
6) This may all be wrong, and I have no idea why this list is enumerated.

Edit: if there's any validity to that, it's bad news for our ability to predict when the new MBPs are coming. And, now that I think about it, why wouldn't the same money-grubbing be true for any other company? Furthermore, the hell with capitalism.

[jfsouza]

Santa Rosa is a mobile platform. It will likely show up in iMacs tho, as iMacs are using mobile CPUs etc. currently.

SSE is SIMD... so it can be used for graphics but has many other uses too. It's similar to AltiVec. It's also used for fast FP math on Intel.

Okay... wait WTF the current iMacs are using the mobile C2D!!!! Ahhhhh!!!! Damn damn damn. Anyway, I am looking forward to a Santa Rosa driven Leopard Powered 24" fully loaded iMac in the Spring.

[absurdio]

wow those were some good stories
moral of the story

Yeah, suddenly, I feel like the ******* complaining about a caffeine addiction to a bunch of meth-heads.

[absurdio]

Lots of discussion on this topic. I for one will be getting the 15" Merom simply because the 17 incher defeats the purpose of a laptop for me. Way too big and bulky to lug around from class to class and then to the office.

But to each his own. If you're doing video editing, then you should definitely get the 17 incher.

For my part, the deciding question will be whether or not the new 15" will have fw800. I'd prefer the 15" for portability's (and humility's) sake(s), but if the 17" remains the only model with fw800, then 17" it shall be.

[sjsharks27]

If you are in no rush to get a MB or MBP (not sure which one) do you guys recomend waiting for Santa Rosa and Leapord to come out, or to buy it when its updated to Merom?? When does it look like Santa Rosa and Leapord will be out too?

[ergle2]

Okay... wait WTF the current iMacs are using the mobile C2D!!!! Ahhhhh!!!! Damn damn damn. Anyway, I am looking forward to a Santa Rosa driven Leopard Powered 24" fully loaded iMac in the Spring.

You probably won't see a lot of difference between it and a current 24" iMac.

Robson aside, Santa Rosa doesn't add anything that's going to make a major difference, IMO.

[ergle2]

If you are in no rush to get a MB or MBP (not sure which one) do you guys recomend waiting for Santa Rosa and Leapord to come out, or to buy it when its updated to Merom?? When does it look like Santa Rosa and Leapord will be out too?

Santa Rosa is likely May 07 at the earliest.

[Multimedia]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?I'm happy to join you but I am not going to make any more "predictions" or "hopefullies" any more. My optimism is letting too many people down when they don't show up. So I'll only hold hands and provide hugs. :)Does this mean you don't believe they'll show or just you're keeping your guesses to yourself now? :)It means I am admitting I am just as clueless as everyone else here. Sorry. I have no crystal ball and no inside connections. Your guess is as good as mine or better. So I am giving up expecting when and will just enjoy the day they do.

Meanwhile we'll keep each other company.

[ergle2]

I'm happy to join you but I am not going to make any more "predictions" or "hopefullies". My optimism is letting too many people down when they don't show up. So I'll only hold hands and provide hugs. :)

Does this mean you don't believe they'll show or just you're keeping your guesses to yourself now? :)

[Multimedia]

You probably won't see a lot of difference between it and a current 24" iMac.

Robson aside, Santa Rosa doesn't add anything that's going to make a major difference, IMO.I want to support this position. From what I've read, it appears that Santa Rosa will be a nominal difference from what we get next this Fall.

[generik]

couple questions
first, Santa Rosa will be the desktop platform to, no?


No :)

[bimboles]

http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/09/update_on_64bit.html

[generik]

Boy, do I know how that feels! I bought my $5,600, 292MHz "Wallstreet" when it arrived (10 years ago?), waited 3 months for it to ship, only to have the newer, faster, better "PDQ" debut less than one month later, at a cheaper price (much cheaper!), and a much better graphics chip. Made me feel like a chump, after such a long wait - never thought it'd be outdated so quickly, I didn't even have it broken in yet!

Next, my beloved Pismo, bleeding-edge for some time after buying it! No buyer remorse there!

Skip ahead to my 1 GHz TiBook, ordered 11/02, arriving in mid-December, about a month after ordering. Nervous anticipation, excited to get it .... faulty mobo required sending back to Apple, but worked great after that! Only to have the totally unexpected 17" AluBook debut 2 weeks later, with more features, no more peeling "Titanium" paint, and better value.

Next bought my G5 iMac, again so excited for my new technology, only to have upgraded, faster G5 iMac including iSight and Front Row, surprise us a few weeks later!

These weren't computers that I'd use for months and months before a new arrival, so I couldn't justify "how much time I'd saved," or "how much extra productivity I'd enjoyed," since it was never more than a few weeks!

So I'm damned well not gonna buy an outdated MBP now, with imminent upgrade to Merom!

(Well, I just need to keep telling myself that, to avoid the almost irresistable urge to punch in my Visa card numbers on the order page for the current MBP ..... I ..... must ..... resist ..... not futile ......... )

:eek:

iBorg

And you call yourself a Mac fanatic? True fanbois have one-click ordering enabled!

[Am3822]

I've had a look, and while Dell may be offering them, I have yet to see any C2D thinkpads. So, for what it's worth, Apple is not alone in taking its time.

[ergle2]

I've had a look, and while Dell may be offering them, I have yet to see any C2D thinkpads. So, for what it's worth, Apple is not alone in taking its time.

Oddly, Lenovo's non-ThinkPad line has the C2D.

[ergle2]

And you call yourself a Mac fanatic? True fanbois have one-click ordering enabled!

True Fanbois buy from Apple stores, surely? :)

[Am3822]

Oddly, Lenovo's non-ThinkPad line has the C2D.
It might mean that building a premium-brand C2D notebook is not all that simple (no disrespect to Dell).

Well, this is all interesting, but I do hope Apple will be able to unveil/ship the new line soon.

[ergle2]

It might mean that building a premium-brand C2D notebook is not all that simple (no disrespect to Dell).

Well, this is all interesting, but I do hope Apple will be able to unveil/ship the new line soon.

Well, the ThinkPad line has traditionally been conservative (read: adopts most tech last).

I don't discount the possibility that Apple finds cooling under certain circumstances problematic due to the thinness of their design; all the tests I've seen so far suggest that Merom runs cooler, but they were all running XP SP2. I suspect the higher TDP requirements might be down to 64bit operation, which obviously isn't an issue under regular XP...

This leads me to wonder something else -- what effect might 64bit have on battery life?

But I digress... :)

[holycat]

no C2D MB/P till november i gueSS :eek: :( :mad:

[Greebazoid]

I got approval from my fellow company directors last night to buy an apple notebook (tho they do stipulate its my responsibility to ensure I can do all I need to on it - roll on boot camp and parallels).

I'm gonna see how long I can put off the purchase, but it cant be too long.

Oh well.

*shrug*

I think a MBP 2.0GHz 15.4" in its current form will actually do me fine. Its replacing a ancient AMD...

[bazzalisk]

no C2D MB/P till november i gueSS :eek: :( :mad:

Could be October.

[Am3822]

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;

[ColeSear]

I'm also waiting for the new MBPs with C2D.
For me it would be good to get one this year, because in germany the taxes will go up from 16% to 19%.

[sev7en]

Apple is killing me! I'm awaiting this long required update :) I don't know the reason it's awaiting so much for Merom CPUs

[Sopranino]

Hello all, first post to this board. I must say it has been very entertaining watching these MB & MBP release threads.

To the point:
A good friend of mine is a Techology Analyst/R&D for a major international company. We were discussing the possible upgrade of the MBP today and he brought up some interesting observations & thoughts on the current lack of an upgrade.

1) Apple is a quality conscious company and for the most part releases great product. This may mean that their development branch is not geared for fast release cycles at this point.

2) Steve Jobs may have underestimated the rate of chip upgrades from Intel. Although Steve is fully aware of the "Intel Roadmap" he may not have grasped the "real world impact" of the rapid release cycle that Intel would have on his company's ability to keep pace. (Don't flame me on this please, it's just a thought)

3) With the Santa Rosa platform coming out sometime around April of 2007 it is possible that Apple has elected to skip the Merom chip upgrade and focus on getting everything ready for the Santa Rosa release. It must be realized that any chip upgrade or change to a board layout can cost several million to implement and with the issues that are known to exist with the current MB/MBP there may be a financial reason behind making a decision to skip one upgrade cycle.

4) The longer the current delay to getting new MB/MBPs out for the current C2D chip the less time remains, before the next major release, for a company to recoup their investment in that release which makes it more likely that they would be aiming for the next major release. If you say that the current Merom update does not come out until mid to late October then you have reduced the time for recovery of the return on investment to a period of around 6 months.

5) Considering that there is a Major Platform upgrade in April, Apple may be saying that too many purchasers would skip a simple Merom update and opt for waiting until Santa Rosa appears before parting with their cash.

As for myself personally I really want to see a C2D update soon, my current PB G4 only has one functional memory slot now (the second one died about a month ago). I have been a long time Apple user, my first computer was an Apple IIc (brand new at the time), I cannot envision myself ever buying a Microsoft OS run system so I'll just wait for the next Apple notebook.

Sopranino

[suwandy]

no C2D MB/P till november i gueSS :eek: :( :mad:

Don't give up hopes yet, it could be as early as tomorrow. At least that's what I kept on telling myself. It's worth the wait, I tell you :)

[MIDI_EVIL]

Hello all, first post to this board. I must say it has been very entertaining watching these MB & MBP release threads.

To the point:
A good friend of mine is a Techology Analyst/R&D for a major international company. We were discussing the possible upgrade of the MBP today and he brought up some interesting observations & thoughts on the current lack of an upgrade.

1) Apple is a quality conscious company and for the most part releases great product. This may mean that their development branch is not geared for fast release cycles at this point.

2) Steve Jobs may have underestimated the rate of chip upgrades from Intel. Although Steve is fully aware of the "Intel Roadmap" he may not have grasped the "real world impact" of the rapid release cycle that Intel would have on his company's ability to keep pace. (Don't flame me on this please, it's just a thought)

3) With the Santa Rosa platform coming out sometime around April of 2007 it is possible that Apple has elected to skip the Merom chip upgrade and focus on getting everything ready for the Santa Rosa release. It must be realized that any chip upgrade or change to a board layout can cost several million to implement and with the issues that are known to exist with the current MB/MBP there may be a financial reason behind making a decision to skip one upgrade cycle.

4) The longer the current delay to getting new MB/MBPs out for the current C2D chip the less time remains, before the next major release, for a company to recoup their investment in that release which makes it more likely that they would be aiming for the next major release. If you say that the current Merom update does not come out until mid to late October then you have reduced the time for recovery of the return on investment to a period of around 6 months.

5) Considering that there is a Major Platform upgrade in April, Apple may be saying that too many purchasers would skip a simple Merom update and opt for waiting until Santa Rosa appears before parting with their cash.

As for myself personally I really want to see a C2D update soon, my current PB G4 only has one functional memory slot now (the second one died about a month ago). I have been a long time Apple user, my first computer was an Apple IIc (brand new at the time), I cannot envision myself ever buying a Microsoft OS run system so I'll just wait for the next Apple notebook.

Sopranino

Welcome, and good post!

I too believe they may miss out on Merom, and wait for Santa Rosa.

If you remember, the PowerBook was behind for a long time in terms of power with the G4 chip, when even the iMac which is a consumer product, had the G5.

People still bought the G4 (Me included).

Apple are comfortable with the money they're making on the current MacBook Pro, i see them waiting for Santa Rosa, giving them something to really shout about.

Rich.

[MIDI_EVIL]

Don't give up hopes yet, it could be as early as tomorrow. At least that's what I kept on telling myself. It's worth the wait, I tell you :)

That is unhealthy.

Rich.

[suwandy]

The 26th has been my near-breaking point. Every day now is a struggle not to buy a MBP as it is, or be smart and buy core 2 duo laptop from someone else, or be patient (and smarter?) and wait for the C2D MBP to eventually release. I feel like an alcoholic--One Day at a Time. If I can get through today, I can get through tomorrow, and the next day, but I have to get through today first.

Yes, this is the C2D MBP support group. I am its first member. Who would like to join in solidarity with me?

I'm joining you in, mate. I said to myself last month to my girlfriend, my parents, my friends (who own MBPs), and my other friends (who didn't) about me buying a C2D MBP. Some supported me, some said, "Noo.. my 'newest' MBP is going to obsolete after release like what? 150 something days? It's not even a year yet!!" I guess you could tell which group this comes from. Some were as eagerly waiting as me, as for my girlfriend, she is just excited for me to get a new laptop so I can spend more time with her away from my desktop computer :D

It's nearing the end of the 'next month' now, but then again, I'll be proud to be holding on to a C2D MBP when it actually comes, and not sulk myself for being impatient and getting a CD MBP

Cheers

[suwandy]

The only 2 ports I see myself using are for the USB Mighty Mouse and transfering photos from my camera.

Speaking of ports, I wish they gave us the ports they used back in the powerbook G4.

[ChickenSwartz]

Completely nailed it. Spot on, fellow. Some added pressures:
1) I have to call Applecare back and explain to them why i've been taking so long to get back to them on what configuration i want to replace this tibook, and i imagine their patience isn't limitless (though so far it has been shockingly plentiful).
2) This computer is dying fast.
3) The other side of the coin: when i bought this computer it was juuuuuuust before the aluminum powerbooks were released, so i know first-hand the misery of being immediately obsolete.

Here's to staying strong...one...day...at...a...time.

Edit: i'm starting to feel like apple is just a lousy, alcoholic step-dad.

You should call AppleCare and tell them you are waiting for the C2D chips to be put in the MBP. See what they say.

[cerberus]

Hello @all, its my first reply here in this forum (I know, you you don't care about it *gg*).

I made 2 interesting obersavations here in Bremen, Germany, yesterday:

First the good one:
"Gravis" has special offers for MBPs, saying they are "remainders", starting at 1550€. For those who are not common with Apples price politics in Germany: just change the $ into € and vice versa. Do not convert it. In fact, Apple has therefor 20-30% higher prices in Germany than in the US.

Next the not so good one:
M&M (Another Apple-only reseller in Bremen) published new brochures. The first new brochures this year! With the new iMacs, the New Mac Pro, new iPod, BUT with the "old" MBP! Does that mean, we shouldn await an update very soon?

[Am3822]

Sopranino

Interesting read, indeed. I wonder, though, where does it leave all the would-be purchasers who had hoped that a new MBP release would be less problem-prone. Are we to expect more silent hardware revisions of the MBP, then?

[ChickenSwartz]

Welcome, and good post!

I too believe they may miss out on Merom, and wait for Santa Rosa.

If you remember, the PowerBook was behind for a long time in terms of power with the G4 chip, when even the iMac which is a consumer product, had the G5.

People still bought the G4 (Me included).

Apple are comfortable with the money they're making on the current MacBook Pro, i see them waiting for Santa Rosa, giving them something to really shout about.

Rich.

If this is true I will be completely happy if, in some way, Apple could let us know. Yeah, I know, not going to happen.

If this is true, they have to drop the price. At the lowest, $1999, is not competitive with other notebooks, not even close. I remeber back in July it was easy to run over to Dell's website and build a comprable machine and it would cost maybe a couple hundred less than the MBP. Now, not even close.

[pjo]

1) Apple is a quality conscious company and for the most part releases great product. This may mean that their development branch is not geared for fast release cycles at this point.
...

3) With the Santa Rosa platform coming out sometime around April of 2007 it is possible that Apple has elected to skip the Merom chip upgrade and focus on getting everything ready for the Santa Rosa release. It must be realized that any chip upgrade or change to a board layout can cost several million to implement and with the issues that are known to exist with the current MB/MBP there may be a financial reason behind making a decision to skip one upgrade cycle.


Nice points, but the Merom is pin compatible with Yonah. Switching between them (besides the bulk orders) is about as difficult as changing the speed of the Yonahs - and we have seen a few speed bumps...


5) Considering that there is a Major Platform upgrade in April, Apple may be saying that too many purchasers would skip a simple Merom update and opt for waiting until Santa Rosa appears before parting with their cash.


Interesting.


If you remember, the PowerBook was behind for a long time in terms of power with the G4 chip, when even the iMac which is a consumer product, had the G5.

People still bought the G4 (Me included).


The furnace called the G5 couldn't (and still can't AFAIK) be put in a laptop. The Merom is reputed to be "cooler" than the Yonahs... a totally different situation. In fact, one of the reasons we have Intel Macs is because we didn't get mobile G5s et al.

[aidan60657]

Well, I ordered my off-the-shelf MBP yesterday morning. Apple site said it wouldn't be mailed out until next Tuesday. That got my hopes up but I saw today that UPS is out trying to deliver my MBP right now (but I'm at work).

Anyway, I bought a bloody great machine, Merom or not. This will do me fine for several years to come, I imagine. Or until Santa Rosa comes along!

It's been fun, but two months of waiting for Merom and I wish I'd just bought the damn machine to begin with.

See you all early next year for the Santa Rosa rumors!

[famusc]

I really think it's almost impossible that Apple's waiting for Santa Rosa: Core 2 Duo is here while Santa Rosa is still in the dreams world. If there will be no official 802.11n approval, they will be forced to redisign the platform and this means that the launch date of March/April 07 will be put off to April/May.
Can Apple afford this risk and leave their laptops as they are for a so long time?
MBP were launched in January and waiting till next Spring is surely too long to stay competitive.
It's obviously necessary a mid-time upgrade before the Spring major one.

[reflex]

Do not convert it. In fact, Apple has therefor 20-30% higher prices in Germany than in the US.

I think you'll find that VAT accounts for most of the difference.

M&M (Another Apple-only reseller in Bremen) published new brochures. The first new brochures this year! With the new iMacs, the New Mac Pro, new iPod, BUT with the "old" MBP! Does that mean, we shouldn await an update very soon?

This is probably not really significant, since most retailers won't know that Apple will release new versions of a computer until everyone knows.

[Am3822]

There's more to the price differences than VAT:

Here are the pre-VAT retail prices in Israel (basic models, without any extra mem/hd/etc):

MBP 15.4, 2.0Ghz: 2471$
MBP 15.4, 2.16Ghz: 3065$
MBP 17, 2.16Ghz: 3268$

I am told that they are somewhat comparable with the european prices.

[absurdio]

You should call AppleCare and tell them you are waiting for the C2D chips to be put in the MBP. See what they say.

The thought has occurred to me, though I'm not sure how fond of that they'll be. "Hey guys. I'm really going to push your generosity to new thresholds by refusing to take advantage of it until you release an even newer product...you don't mind, do you?"

[lolsdaka]

I'm tired of people telling it's stupid to wait for new technologies...
Why do they come in this thread anyway ?
People who couldn't wait and recently got the Yonah should be doing their "life" with it now and let us waiters discuss how cruel Apple is !
Unless they are secretly hoping to use the x days retract possibility...
Anyway I'm not waiting for Merom just to hang on forums...
I'm a content developper in music so I'm very concerned by this update !
I've been PC user since then and really aware on why Mac is better...
I was willing to switch but after reading all I can everyday about a possible update and having discovered the world of macrumors, appleinsider, macbidouille, macgeneration, etc... I don't think I'll ever become an Applehollic (and the stupid new TV ads won't help at all...).
My point is that if they don't release it very soon or at least give information, it's not an MBP Yonah I shall buy, but a nice new Core 2 Duo Sony laptop !
I know I'm just a pawn down there but...

Another thing I'd like to add; people say merom has pour improvements compared to yonah but people almost never talk about RAM...I was thinking Merom let the possibility to have more than 2GB of RAM... Am I wrong on that ???

Anyway, after coming here everyday since two months, this is my first post ! Nice to meet you ! ;)

Oh btw, I read somewhere that the new Mobility Radeon X1700 is out ! Could it make its way to the new MBP ?
I don'treally care since I'm more into sound but could be a reason of the delay...
I will never buy a Yonah because it's nowadays really too expensive for what its worth and I don't wanna accept that I've waisted my time waiting for so long...

[shadowlander]

3) With the Santa Rosa platform coming out sometime around April of 2007 it is possible that Apple has elected to skip the Merom chip upgrade and focus on getting everything ready for the Santa Rosa release. It must be realized that any chip upgrade or change to a board layout can cost several million to implement and with the issues that are known to exist with the current MB/MBP there may be a financial reason behind making a decision to skip one upgrade cycle.
Sopranino

It just seems to me that if this was the case, the same logic would have applied to the iMac as well...but Apple went merom with it.

[absurdio]

And there's almost no way Apple won't put out SOME new portable before the holidays. MBP sales may be fine now, but it's still september. By the time we reach Thanksgiving (i.e. another couple of months), the current MBP is going to seem not outdated but archaic. It'd be insane for Apple to do anything BUT release something for the holidays. I don't want to wait until November, but I would be shocked if Apple decided to bypass Merom completely.

[generik]

3) With the Santa Rosa platform coming out sometime around April of 2007 it is possible that Apple has elected to skip the Merom chip upgrade and focus on getting everything ready for the Santa Rosa release. It must be realized that any chip upgrade or change to a board layout can cost several million to implement and with the issues that are known to exist with the current MB/MBP there may be a financial reason behind making a decision to skip one upgrade cycle.


Wow this is the most far fetched reason I've seen.. so it costs millions to swop a processor? Why did the iMac get it then? Besides how much is 1 million? Surely 2000 MBP sales will score it right back? How many supposed million will it cost then? Because I am pretty sure Apple makes at least $500 on the Macbook Pro.

[33scottie33]

It just seems to me that if this was the case, the same logic would have applied to the iMac as well...but Apple went merom with it.

The iMac did not need a case redesign; the MBP and possibly MB does. If all Apple wanted to do is just insert C2D, the MBP would have been made available the same time the iMacs were. To my knowledge, I do not know of a redesigned laptop with C2D.

I do not think they will wait for Santa Rosa, but I'm sure the new design will take that into account. If they were waiting for Santa Rosa, I think Apple would have somehow made that known that there were not going with C2D. That would keep us in anticipation and at the same time promote sales of the current MBP, which by the way is the absolute best laptop available, including new C2D models.

[HecubusPro]

I'd just like you all to know that I am typing this on my very own MacBook Pro that I've had for a few months, and I've loved every minute of using it.

Including today.

Boy it sure is fast. Runs great. Slick graphics. Great machine. What a beast.

Does it bother me that some dude probably only a couple miles away is typing away on his Core2Duo machine right now? Um, not really. It's not even a wants vs needs thing. It's about the fact that the Meroms ain't that big a deal, especially for a laptop.

Man, this machine is fast...

Post-note: the funny thing, the angriest people in this forum are also the diehard people who will buy a MB/MBP at some point no matter what (or not at all). The actual impact on Apple's sales outlook of waiting for Meroms is actually quite small. That's the irony of having a niche market like Apple's: the angrier your customers, the more those same customers are loyal to a fault. Haha!

You're so wise, and un-angry.

[suwandy]

It just seems to me that if this was the case, the same logic would have applied to the iMac as well...but Apple went merom with it.

well said, although iMac's updates were almost a month ago. (or was it more?) Now that it's ticking closer to the Santa Rosa, the argument seemed more and more valid. Still, on the other hand, I believe this update is imminent upon us, and there's no reason why Apple should decide to wait that long. After all, forums like this can be a clear reason that Apple will be getting a lot of money from people waiting ... like me ;)

[suwandy]

gave up on the wait.. needed a computer.. just ordered my MBP 15" 100GB/7200RPM with 2GB Ram...

Sigh........................... so wanted the core 2..................................

dont' worry, we'll keep going for you.
Not to mention, you still get a very very decent computer :)

[Sopranino]

Wow this is the most far fetched reason I've seen.. so it costs millions to swop a processor? Why did the iMac get it then? Besides how much is 1 million? Surely 2000 MBP sales will score it right back? How many supposed million will it cost then? Because I am pretty sure Apple makes at least $500 on the Macbook Pro.

Hi generik.

Thanks for your response, as almost everything in this thread is pure speculation the best that anyone can do is apply a little logic and hope that the outcome is reasonably consistent with the real world.

Allow me to address some of the points that you bring up:

1) In the world of the publicly traded company any costs are carefully analyzed and weighed against potential outcomes so yes the cost of the upgrade in the notebook line may be a contributing factor in the apparent upgrade delay.

2) The iMac getting the upgrade to Merom may have been nothing more than a marketing decision based on the fact that Apple would be moving a large volume of notebooks (regardless of what chip they had) due to the back to school rush, therefore giving the iMacs an upgrade allows Apple to make the iMac a more appealing purchase (due to the new chip) and thus able to sell more of them at the same time.

3) Circuit board design, drafting, and development is very expensive and more so when the space constraints of small form factor notebooks need to be addressed. Here again there are several issues that Apple is probably looking to address, prior to releasing any updates, which will involve changes to the circuit boards in the notebook line. As I recall there were no issues to address with the iMacs so in those machines a simple chip swap was probably fairly straight forward.

4) Sorry I can't address your assertion regarding the profit of 500 dollars per sold machine, I don't have access to that kind of information. :)

Sopranino

[Neuroguy]

Okay, I am thinking about biting the bullet for everyone in the MBP Merom support group.

The way my luck goes, 15 days after I buy an MBP, the new one will come out. So, if you really want it in 15 days, I can go and buy one now.

Neuroguy


PS. Talk about a fantastic business model. Microsoft gets excited when a bunch of teenagers are waiting for the $500 XBOX 360 to come out. Here, Apple has over 2000 posts by people begging to spend *at least* $2K on one of their notebooks. As some projected, even if Apple makes $500 per MBP, there's about a $Million in profit sitting right here, watching this board...

[generik]

Hi generik.

Thanks for your response, as almost everything in this thread is pure speculation the best that anyone can do is apply a little logic and hope that the outcome is reasonably consistent with the real world.

Allow me to address some of the points that you bring up:

1) In the world of the publicly traded company any costs are carefully analyzed and weighed against potential outcomes so yes the cost of the upgrade in the notebook line may be a contributing factor in the apparent upgrade delay.

2) The iMac getting the upgrade to Merom may have been nothing more than a marketing decision based on the fact that Apple would be moving a large volume of notebooks (regardless of what chip they had) due to the back to school rush, therefore giving the iMacs an upgrade allows Apple to make the iMac a more appealing purchase (due to the new chip) and thus able to sell more of them at the same time.

3) Circuit board design, drafting, and development is very expensive and more so when the space constraints of small form factor notebooks need to be addressed. Here again there are several issues that Apple is probably looking to address, prior to releasing any updates, which will involve changes to the circuit boards in the notebook line. As I recall there were no issues to address with the iMacs so in those machines a simple chip swap was probably fairly straight forward.

4) Sorry I can't address your assertion regarding the profit of 500 dollars per sold machine, I don't have access to that kind of information. :)

Sopranino

:rolleyes:

[Hodapp]

4) Sorry I can't address your assertion regarding the profit of 500 dollars per sold machine, I don't have access to that kind of information. :)


Information? This is Mac Rumors, it's entirely acceptable here to just make things up... As long as you do so with a touch of outrage that they haven't updated $product_line yet.

[rvcontre]

I don't think the 2GB RAM would come standard... Apple's RAM is expensive and I'm pretty sure they get a lot of custom configurations upping the RAM ( = $$$).

However, I think the Frenzied Midget is definitely a go. THAT's why we've been waiting so long...


I'm starting to wonder about Apple. It just doesn't seem like it's in the cards anymore. Although the Photokina event has made me less rampant in my rumor hunting. I can sustain a nice even fervor for the C2D MBP if I'm expecting them before Christmas.

[Sopranino]

Information? This is Mac Rumors, it's entirely acceptable here to just make things up... As long as you do so with a touch of outrage that they haven't updated $product_line yet.

Ahhhh now I understand, thanks for clarifying that for me. Hmmmm touch of outrage then......HEY APPLE, WHERE IS MY !@#% MEROM NOTEBOOK.

I feel much better now.

Sopranino

[ct-scan]

So, *if* Apple decides on a silent release (today?), what time would they do it? 9am PST? 10am PST?
I never tracked that sort of thing before...just wondering when I need to "call it a day" and stop hope ;)

[richard4339]

Personally, since I just ordered my MBP Monday, I'm hoping the newer version either comes out within 2 weeks of mine arriving, or in about two months so I won't feel bad about not waiting a tad bit longer.

[maverick808]

So, *if* Apple decides on a silent release (today?), what time would they do it? 9am PST? 10am PST?
I never tracked that sort of thing before...just wondering when I need to "call it a day" and stop hope ;)

It's already too late for it to happen today. For web updates not tied to an event, Apple usually update between 6 and 8am Cupertino time. It's already past that so it's not happening today.

[djkny]

Apple causes obsessive-compulsive disorder, hence their popular tagline, "Think Different."

[azzurri000]

Apple causes obsessive-compulsive disorder, hence their popular tagline, "Think Different."


hahaha... aww... yeah:( I'm constantly checking these merom threads to get a glimmer of hope. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking forward to now, so I just check this site every morning when I wake up, when I get home, between tasks, etc. etc. I want to be somewhat sane again!!!

Also, all of this Santa Rosa talk is making me twitch.

[Neuroguy]

The scary thing is that if a genie granted me 3 wishes, a Merom MBP might make that list... aargh!!

Neuroguy

PS. Who think that Steve is going to do a Thursday silent release? It would be a 1st, but he loves to mess with our brains.

Getting excited for the first Thursday update tomorrow.!!

[Akiva]

I posted this on the laptop refresh thread too, but I wanted to get feedback from some of you who might not be checking all the thread...hope that's ok...here goes...

I've gotten myself caught up in this whole C2D waiting craze...but I'm wondering if it's worth the wait (for me at least).

I'm switching over from a older 1.8Ghz Pentium M Dell Latitude notebook with 1G ram. I use photoshop a bunch, illustrator, etc...and I'd like to start messing around with film editing and music recording too.

From what everybody seems to say here, speed wise the C2D offers only a modest (20% or so) improvement over the older chipset. So I'm thinking that might not be worth the wait. Compared to my Dell I'll probably be in heaven even with the slowest dual core config (and running photoshop through rosetta).

But if I order a 15" MacBook Pro today are there still issues I would have to worry about that might be cleared up in the next update, or are the latest MacBook Pro's being shipped fine?

For the record, I'd probably go with the 15" MBP 2.16Ghz 2Ghz Ram 100GB 7200rpm drive.

Oh, one last question - could I have a larger drive installed in the MBP - like a 120 or 160GB 7200 drive. Is that possible?

Thanks.

[richyfp]

Can I just chime in with something completely useless, but that accurately expresses my feelings regarding the C2D MBP:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

There. Thanks, guys.

[fastlane1588]

The thing that bothers me is that Ive been waiting since may. Back in May everyone knew the chip was comming out in August, and Intel even said, "youll see core2duo laptops by the end of August." So I had no problem waiting, even though school started at the end of August. Then wwdc came, and went, and the next rumor was 2 weeks before the Paris expo. That came and went. Then it was supposed to come out at the Paris expo, that came and went. Then the 19th was the next rumored release, that came and went. After that passed, the next release was the monday Photokina thing, that came and went, so people said it was the Tuesday at Photokina, and that came and went.

Now were hoping it will be released before thanksgiving, or even worse, next spring with the santa rosa! What makes it worse was the Apple Insider post saying that its just a minimal update. Apple needs to get it together they have had plenty of time to get this put together, so whats holding them up???

[emotion]

Apple needs to get it together they have had plenty of time to get this put together, so whats holding them up???

Engineering problems associated with the extra heat coming from the C2D.


Just a guess, the heat tolerances in the current mbp design are pretty tight as it is. It would take much more heat to make this a tricky upgrade.

[ct-scan]

I'm switching over from a older 1.8Ghz Pentium M Dell Latitude notebook with 1G ram. I use photoshop a bunch, illustrator, etc...and I'd like to start messing around with film editing and music recording too.

Rosetta is the pain in my side for Photoshop/Illustrator/Flash/Dreamweaver.
However, Universal versions of ProTools, Reason, and FCE work wonderfully.

Can't tell you that PS will run any faster than your Dell...however, PS CS3 I'm SURE will smoke the hell out of the Dell.


Oh, one last question - could I have a larger drive installed in the MBP - like a 120 or 160GB 7200 drive. Is that possible?

Yes, but being someone who has replaced quite a few hard drives in the Alum design 'Books...get ready for lengthy process.
I could never understand why they made it so damn difficult to get to.

[ruutiveijari]

So Merom runs hotter than Yonah? Does this mean the next MacBook Pro is either hotter or noisier than the last one?

All I want from a laptop is coolness (enough to actually use it on your thighs), reliability (rev A...) and batterylife. Which of these can one except to get better with Merom?

[MIDI_EVIL]

So Merom runs hotter than Yonah? Does this mean the next MacBook Pro is either hotter or noisier than the last one?

All I want from a laptop is coolness (enough to actually use it on your thighs),


Say goodbye to that, Laptops are now just as fast as desktops, and with that comes heat. It's a trade-off. I'd prefer to have a fast portable desktop than a computer that is behind in speed and tech just so it can sit on my lap.

Rich.

[ruutiveijari]

Say goodbye to that, Laptops are now just as fast as desktops, and with that comes heat.
I was afraid of that.

Things have really gotten crazy lately. A year ago we were bying singlecore G4 1.5GHz machines with a 166MHz FBS and now a 2.16GHz dualcore Yonah with a 667MHz FSB isn't fast enough. Funny how fast things can change and people simply want more than need.

(sorry for my crappy english skills)

[gauchogolfer]

I was afraid of that.

Things have really gotten crazy lately. A year ago we were bying singlecore G4 1.5GHz machines with a 166MHz FBS and now a 2.16GHz dualcore Yonah with a 667MHz FSB isn't fast enough. Funny how fast things can change and people simply want more than need.

(sorry for my crappy english skills)

Your english skills are fine, and you make a good point about how quickly Apple has progressed in its portable computers. I'm working on a powerbook not much different from the one you describe, and I'm fairly certain I'd be happy with a current MBP. Perspective is a good thing™.

[RichP]

Your english skills are fine, and you make a good point about how quickly Apple has progressed in its portable computers. I'm working on a powerbook not much different from the one you describe, and I'm fairly certain I'd be happy with a current MBP. Perspective is a good thing™.

Agreed with both of you. Its amazing how quickly we forget these machines are 4-5x faster than machines that were available 9 months ago. In terms of performance increase over time, that is VERY substantial.

[little larry]

yeah yeah.. first time post....
I have just received an email from a local Australian apple reseller about a sale. There are LOTS of MacBook Pros on the sale list. It goes on to say they arrive on monday and they are coming from Apple. Sure.. this doesn't mean that much to most people out there but I must say.. I don't seem to recall many Apple sales in Australia and with over 100 Macbook Pros that are current models.. It's got me thinking....

[Multimedia]

So Merom runs hotter than Yonah? Does this mean the next MacBook Pro is either hotter or noisier than the last one?

All I want from a laptop is coolness (enough to actually use it on your thighs), reliability (rev A...) and batterylife. Which of these can one except to get better with Merom?No it does not. Merom runs cooler than Yonah. And yes it will have longer battery life as well.It was meant to but the initial reports (sorry can't find my links) say otherwise. That may of course have been the down to the PC laptop that had been upgraded with a C2D by the testers.

It's the most plausible explanation I can think of. Just think of the trouble Apple would be in if they had another wave of mooing and whining MBPs (not to mention the users :) )?? I suspect they wanna get this upgrade right the first time.Those were reports using pre-release Meroms. The PC Perspective release Merom review (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=288&type=expert&pid=1) shows it runs cooler and will also use less battery more of the time, i.e., is more energy efficient than Yonah.

[emotion]

No it does not. It runs cooler.

It was meant to but the initial reports (sorry can't find my links) say otherwise. That may of course have been the down to the PC laptop that had been upgraded with a C2D by the testers.

It's the most plausible explanation I can think of. Just think of the trouble Apple would be in if they had another wave of mooing and whining MBPs (not to mention the users :) )?? I suspect they wanna get this upgrade right the first time.

[louden]

Agreed with both of you. Its amazing how quickly we forget these machines are 4-5x faster than machines that were available 9 months ago. In terms of performance increase over time, that is VERY substantial.

Does anyone truly need a new mbp? I want one, but I don't really need one. In fact, I could get by without a mac at all. The reason people on this thread are validly impatient with Apple is that the other vendors -Apple's competitors - are shipping the chips. As consumers we should demand the best from our vendors and when they don't deliver, we should take them to task and look at alternatives. Apple gets kudos for shipping sexy machines, but the quality of my Powerbook is iffy, damn it gets hot, and to me, screen resolution is less than spectacular. Not to mention the wobble on a flat surface.

I'd like a new mbp to easily run 64 bit vista and leopard. Unfortunately, we're not there yet. The longer Apple waits to ship, the more it seems they're taking advantage of the dopes out there who don't know any better. And as long as they're not feeling it on the bottom line, I wouldn't expect anything soon. Especially now that the last date I could have seen them announcing these things just passed :)

[S i]

It was meant to but the initial reports (sorry can't find my links) say otherwise. That may of course have been the down to the PC laptop that had been upgraded with a C2D by the testers.

It's the most plausible explanation I can think of. Just think of the trouble Apple would be in if they had another wave of mooing and whining MBPs (not to mention the users :) )?? I suspect they wanna get this upgrade right the first time.

I missed out on the whole mooing & whining MBP story - it was back when I was getting work done instead of trawling Mac rumour sites ;) I'll be happy enough though if the delay is due to Apple fixing these issues. Only a straight chip swap would disappoint.

I thought Merom got better & better as it neared production, & only initial tests showed anything other than it being cooler than Yonah

Hi Louden,

Like you, I think we should demand the best from Apple. A bit of the ole tough love will keep them honest maybe :cool:

[emotion]

It doesn't make sense on a forum to quote me _before_ I make the post via an edit.

However that link is useful. I still stand by what I say though. I'd rather we wait a couple of weeks longer than the Dell customers (are c2d Dells shipping?) and get a properly tested and engineered C2D mbp.

To a certain extent the world is watching and the world thinks (whether that is justified or not) that all MBs and MBPs are faulty by design. Apple need to sort that out.

[ct-scan]

In fact, I could get by without a mac at all...I'd like a new mbp to easily run 64 bit vista and leopard.

Go buy whatever Winblows-based PC you want then. :confused:
Buying a Mac to run Windows as your primary OS is like buying some sort of super-yacht, and putting it in a pond. It's totally useless.

[Andrew F]

Is Apple Insider normally accurate with their information. MacOSXrumors definatly fell through on use. Is it really safe to assume they are coming before Thanksgiving and the marketing team is just waiting to pull the triger. I will not buy a over priced, out dated, problematic laptop. Nine months without an update seems a little to long. Get it out soon Apple.

[ct-scan]

From AppleInsider today: Additionally, the release [10.4.8] is likely to bundle support for new lines of Core 2 Duo-based MacBook and MacBook Pro notebooks, which are due for release prior to the start of the holiday shopping season in late November.

So are we waiting for MacOS to be compatible w/ the C2D MBP?

[bob_hearn]

... more of the time - IE is more energy efficient.

Stop doing that! :mad:

IE is more efficient than what???

IE = Internet Exploder

i.e. = id est = that is