PDA

View Full Version : Messenger 6 for Mac to miss out on voice, video AGAIN


MacBytes
Sep 16, 2006, 08:29 AM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: 3rd Party Software
Link: Messenger 6 for Mac to miss out on voice, video AGAIN (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060916092942)
Description:: The new Intel-friendly MSN Messenger client for Mac will be released "in the next couple of weeks", says Microsoft, but audio and video is another year and another version away.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Chundles
Sep 16, 2006, 08:33 AM
http://brandingadvice.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/gomer11.jpg

WELL GOLLLL-EEYY!!!

That's a sur-prise!!

I swear MS is run by Gomer Pyle in conjunction with the cast of F-Troop.

gloss
Sep 16, 2006, 08:34 AM
At least Skype works like a charm now. Those guys have their act together.

almonde
Sep 16, 2006, 08:46 AM
With Skype and Adium running i don't need MSN, it'd be a nice inclusion on a later version of adium though. Always nice to have options.

cardjoseph
Sep 16, 2006, 08:53 AM
It doesn't come to me as any surprise that Microsoft seems and is incapable of making video available through their msn messenger for macs. Their efforts towards making apps available for apple products is a joke.

Thanks goodness for ichat and yahoo.

daneoni
Sep 16, 2006, 08:59 AM
Hope the get rid of that brushed metal interface.

Jimmieboy
Sep 16, 2006, 09:09 AM
Great! Just what I wanted.

Artofilm
Sep 16, 2006, 09:14 AM
Their efforts towards making apps available for apple products is a joke.

Microsoft's efforts for making available for their own Windows system is a joke...look at Vista!:cool:

Willis
Sep 16, 2006, 09:39 AM
thank god they didnt add those nudges and winks. msn 6 for windows was pretty good, msn 7 ruined it.

lets hope they dont ruin it anymore for the Mac. Not having AV is bad enough

j_maddison
Sep 16, 2006, 09:49 AM
thank god they didnt add those nudges and winks. msn 6 for windows was pretty good, msn 7 ruined it.

lets hope they dont ruin it anymore for the Mac. Not having AV is bad enough

I for one completely disagree with you. Every single mac user I've known who's switched back to a pc has done so because of msn messenger. For alot of young people they use computers to chat to people, so by the OSX platform not having a comparible version of msn messenger no amount of ilife adfertising will sway younger users.

I'm pretty sure this is the sole reason why Microsoft have not developed the mac version of msn messenger to be comparible to the windows version.

Yes another sad day for me at least

Jay

cardjoseph
Sep 16, 2006, 10:10 AM
Microsoft's efforts for making available for their own Windows system is a joke...look at Vista!:cool:


Very true! ha-ha!

myamid
Sep 16, 2006, 10:26 AM
I for one completely disagree with you. Every single mac user I've known who's switched back to a pc has done so because of msn messenger


Whaaaa????? Wow, that must be the nuttiest reason I've EVER heard for switching... And I've heard "I don't like the default font" so that's saying something...!


Especially considering aMSN supports "most" modern MSN features (nudges, ink, video...). Some are still missing, but the bulk has been there for the last few years.

MacBoobsPro
Sep 16, 2006, 10:30 AM
I am no developer but how can rewriting such a small app to allow AV take a year and a half?

I mean photoshop is updated every 18 months (or there abouts).

Is this microsoft just being **** as usual or does that sound about right? :eek:

Seem crazy to me!

cardjoseph
Sep 16, 2006, 12:20 PM
I personally think that microsoft will never like the fact that they have to write such apps like msn for macs. They will always prefer you use a pc using windows and the prefered msn for windows version.

considering the type of apps that do come from microsoft, i have moved away from using 75% of those apps when i started using a mac. The only ones I still use are microsoft word and excel.

i remember when i got my first mac last year and wondered if i should d/l some microsoft apps such as internet explorer or windows media player or messenger. I must say i d/led these three and was disappointed in how crappy they are for macs. I found flip4mac to replace any windows media player files i need to use and/or convert. I easily got adapted to ichat to get rid of using messenger. I deleted IE soon after i saw how crappy it was compared to safari or firefox.

needless to say, ie for macs got canned by microsoft. you could give those redmond guys a few years and they still wont be happy doing "free" software apps for mac people, such as the ones I have mentioned.

I learned my lessons very early and have moved away from ever using msn products and microsoft products when possible.

BrianSalts
Sep 16, 2006, 01:03 PM
that is totally lame.

funkychunkz
Sep 16, 2006, 03:10 PM
I for one completely disagree with you. Every single mac user I've known who's switched back to a pc has done so because of msn messenger. For alot of young people they use computers to chat to people, so by the OSX platform not having a comparible version of msn messenger no amount of ilife adfertising will sway younger users.

I'm pretty sure this is the sole reason why Microsoft have not developed the mac version of msn messenger to be comparible to the windows version.

Yes another sad day for me at least

Jay

Those poor, poor software deprived children. There's a little secret to the mac: it's called freeware and shareware that just works.

Shotglass
Sep 16, 2006, 03:43 PM
you hit the nail on the head there, funkychunkz. I couldn't care less about MSN, I use Adium and Skype, the latter of which I have converted at least 5 friends to, and I'm in the progress of increasing that number. Skype does indeed work like a charm, and I use it more willingly than Adium, although Adium is soooo customizable. I really love that.

Earendil
Sep 16, 2006, 04:24 PM
Just so thatt I fully understand this:
MSN 6 offers many features, all of which have been available on other messengers for at LEAST a year, if not 2 or 3. Some of the more basic features for main stream corporate funded (AIM, Yahoo, iChat) messengers like voice and video STILL aren't available, while at least one freeware/shareware program has implemented this ability?

You know, I can trash the windows OS, but in the end it is still a VERY complicated program, that has only been upstaged by a handful of software teams. But MSN messenger is a relatively simple program that is being upstaged by college kids in their basement :\
I can't even laugh, it's too sad to laugh :(

thequicksilver
Sep 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
Those poor, poor software deprived children. There's a little secret to the mac: it's called freeware and shareware that just works.

Read the post you replied to. He contended that heavy MSN Messenger users he knew had switched back to get the much more feature rich Windows version.

So, in your eyes, there are freeware and shareware alternatives to MSN Messenger available for Mac OS X which will allow the most important features missing from MSN Messenger for Mac to run seamlessly, as well as the Windows version, with a similar interface, with 100% compatibility, and which (like MSN Messenger on Windows) "just work"*.

Name them.

* (I would contend that it is in this case reasonable to define "just working" as "working just as well (or at least within a relatively similar bracket, say maximum 20% difference) if not better than the Windows version of Messenger that the poster compared it to". So the Mac clone having 10fps video instead of 12fps wouldn't be a biggie, whereas lacking entire features, such as games, voice chat etc are pretty gaping holes.)

Winston Smith
Sep 16, 2006, 05:20 PM
As I haven't researched it for a while, are there any feature similar alternatives to MSN on the Mac that communicate seamlessly with MSN users and use an MSN account?

My daughter is a power user of Mac MSN and it gives me great pleasure that a 12 year old who complained bitterly aged 10 that dad had got her Mac (mainly because she didn't have the same MSN as her friends) now abhors using windows at shool:D

JDN
Sep 16, 2006, 05:22 PM
At least Skype works like a charm now. Those guys have their act together.


Does this mean there is a better version of Skpe video for Mac than BETA version 2.0.0.2??? Im using that and its sketchy at the best of times.

gloss
Sep 16, 2006, 05:30 PM
Does this mean there is a better version of Skpe video for Mac than BETA version 2.0.0.2??? Im using that and its sketchy at the best of times.

I'm using Beta 2 and the functionality is pretty nice, although the sound and video bugs are still around. That's why it's beta.

myamid
Sep 16, 2006, 06:07 PM
Read the post you replied to. He contended that heavy MSN Messenger users he knew had switched back to get the much more feature rich Windows version.

So, in your eyes, there are freeware and shareware alternatives to MSN Messenger available for Mac OS X which will allow the most important features missing from MSN Messenger for Mac to run seamlessly, as well as the Windows version, with a similar interface, with 100% compatibility, and which (like MSN Messenger on Windows) "just work"*.

Name them.


aMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net) for one... Stable, flexible, full featured and still being updated regularly - which means new features keep coming. :) So yes, the previous poster was quite right that there are some great alternatives which don't necessarily imply a loss of functionnality.

tominated
Sep 17, 2006, 01:15 AM
come on Microsoft, macs got Microsoft word first, so WHY NOT [a good version of] MSN MESSENGER!!!!!!!:mad:

bousozoku
Sep 17, 2006, 01:37 AM
I for one completely disagree with you. Every single mac user I've known who's switched back to a pc has done so because of msn messenger. For alot of young people they use computers to chat to people, so by the OSX platform not having a comparible version of msn messenger no amount of ilife adfertising will sway younger users.

I'm pretty sure this is the sole reason why Microsoft have not developed the mac version of msn messenger to be comparible to the windows version.

Yes another sad day for me at least

Jay

I think that's a little crazy to turn back because of that but I can understand it. People I know overuse the graphic text and other ridiculous features of MSN Messenger that aren't in the Mac version. I know that because I see all of it using Mercury Messenger. It also doesn't lose communication with the servers as much as the official MSN client does.

I am no developer but how can rewriting such a small app to allow AV take a year and a half?

I mean photoshop is updated every 18 months (or there abouts).

Is this microsoft just being **** as usual or does that sound about right? :eek:

Seem crazy to me!

I suspect that it wouldn't take that much, especially since there is an open source library they would probably steal for their own use that already works with Mac-compatible webcams.

What little they're adding should take no more than a couple of months with testing, though the Yahoo! Messenger interoperability may take more effort. I'd think they probably wrote it so that they could upgrade their own messaging protocol at a moment's notice.

I think part of the thing is that Microsoft enjoys making people jump and flinch and puke.

JDN
Sep 17, 2006, 04:27 AM
Sorry, im a newbie and was just wondeering. Which other IM clients is aMSN compatible with? And can you use webcams with MSN PC users through it??

Jo-Kun
Sep 17, 2006, 07:29 AM
I'm using mercury messenger... works very good, my iSight is supported and I can videochat with windows msn clients (no audio so far) winks nudges etc allmost all work... no more MS Msn client for me...

thequicksilver
Sep 17, 2006, 10:55 AM
aMSN (http://amsn.sourceforge.net) for one... Stable, flexible, full featured and still being updated regularly - which means new features keep coming. :) So yes, the previous poster was quite right that there are some great alternatives which don't necessarily imply a loss of functionnality.

aMSN lacks games, the webcam doesn't work as well as the Windows version, voice chat, among other things. By default, this is a loss of functionality.

So, I repeat my earlier post: name the apps that offer all the same features of Windows Life Messenger for XP.

SPUY767
Sep 17, 2006, 01:03 PM
1) Are we surprised? No.

2) Do we care? We shouldn't.

3) Why is Microsoft so incapable of making a decent product in a timely manner? Who knows.

4) We have iChat, Adium, and Skype. Who needs MS?

myamid
Sep 17, 2006, 01:06 PM
aMSN lacks games, the webcam doesn't work as well as the Windows version, voice chat, among other things. By default, this is a loss of functionality.

So, I repeat my earlier post: name the apps that offer all the same features of Windows Life Messenger for XP.

MSN games aren't worth the trouble, webcam works well enough... Voice I admit is lacking, but coming.

Other than that there isn't really much difference or features for which there isn't a plugin...

And for the record, your question is by no means good or fair... In no field is asking for an app that offers "The same" features realistic - no matter which app you're talking about. Any 2 applications, even if designed for the same thing, will ever be the same. MSN is this regard is actually a very good example. It has become so feature-bloated and clumsily put together (sorry, version 7 and up suck...) that anobody who would try to "clone" it would undoubtebly try and fix the flaws... tweaking the interface, not porting, implementing or not enabling by default useless/pooly implemented features. This is something I've noticed in all 3rd party IM applications - and not just on the mac, even on Windows (think trillian...)

Maybe you should keep to using windows if something as trivial as an IM app annoys you so much...

myamid
Sep 17, 2006, 01:09 PM
Sorry, im a newbie and was just wondeering. Which other IM clients is aMSN compatible with? And can you use webcams with MSN PC users through it??

aMSN is an MSN only client... If you want a multi-network IM app, you should go with Adium or Fire, but they aren't as feature complete as aMSN.

As far as webcam is concerned, yes you can send and receive webcam feeds to and from Windows MSN users with no trouble. Your windows friends probably won't even see the difference :)

And as another poster mentionned, you can give Mercury Messenger a shot too for Webcam support, but in my experince it isn't as nice to use as other clients (a little clunky...)

Kardashian
Sep 17, 2006, 01:14 PM
Adium Metal is the way forward.

When that has Voice and Video, our want for a decent IM client will be met.

:)

myamid
Sep 17, 2006, 01:18 PM
Adium Metal is the way forward.

When that has Voice and Video, our want for a decent IM client will be met.

:)

I agree, although the Adium folks are typically averse to implementing "advanded" features... That's not their goal... So I'm not convinced we'll ever see it happen :(

Ubuntu
Sep 17, 2006, 02:10 PM
I am no developer but how can rewriting such a small app to allow AV take a year and a half?

I mean photoshop is updated every 18 months (or there abouts).

Is this microsoft just being **** as usual or does that sound about right? :eek:

Seem crazy to me!

I thought they could port it... of course it'd be more technical because Macs and PCs work differently, but still, it shouldn't be sooooooooooooooooo hard.

I recall one time when the lead of the Mac Unit at Microsoft said how Microsoft was 'committed'. God, if this is them being committed then God help us all!

Ubuntu
Sep 17, 2006, 02:28 PM
From the Microsoft website... :eek:

"Our Commitment to the Mac Platform

You might be surprised to find a team of Mac software makers right in the heart of Windows® country. But don't let our location throw you. Founded in 1997, the Macintosh Business Unit (Mac BU) is composed of approximately 180 full-time Mac product experts, making the unit one of the largest Mac-focused development teams outside Apple Computer Inc"

Oh. My. God.

:eek:

Jo-Kun
Sep 17, 2006, 04:22 PM
a friend of mine works at Microsoft, so I asked him why msn for mac lacked some things (he's not working at he mac developing team) and he said: dunno why, because it all works with the same services...weather its a mac or pc wich connects... they just don't enable some things for mac so it seems... so its really someone at MS slowing down the mac version deliberatly... (if you want it all get Windows? no we don't...) that's why progs like aMSN Mercury etc... can work with nudges/animated gifs/winks/video because those guys found a way to hack into it and make it work... so I guess its a matter of time before they can enable all Live Messenger features... Mercury for instance is build to work on OSX/Linux/Windows because its Java (ok not the best thing to work with I hear people think... but it does work...)

Project
Sep 17, 2006, 05:10 PM
Think you are being a bit harsh on Microsoft.

Where is the Windows version of iChat?

Jo-Kun
Sep 17, 2006, 05:21 PM
Think you are being a bit harsh on Microsoft.

Where is the Windows version of iChat?


well... being harsh on microsoft...

iChat works with AIM doesn't it? and jabber enables other services... so it connects to users on a pc who have those programs...
ok maybe they should make iChat available for PC too... but face it, most people use MSN

it seems iChat can do MSN too but I haven't tried because jabber is bloody complicated to use it easily... ;-)

Yahoo works (as far as I know) similar on pc and mac
ICQ allso...
MSN doesn't...

PS: I guess if Apple made a PC version they would want it to work perfectly together on both platforms because they probably would feel like idiots if it doesn't... iTunes for Windows works equal on PC/MAC ;-) they only released it until it was...

Project
Sep 17, 2006, 05:30 PM
well... being harsh on microsoft...

iChat works with AIM doesn't it? and jabber enables other services... so it connects to users on a pc who have those programs...
ok maybe they should make iChat available for PC too... but face it, most people use MSN

it seems iChat can do MSN too but I haven't tried because jabber is bloody complicated to use it easily... ;-)

Yahoo works (as far as I know) similar on pc and mac
ICQ allso...
MSN doesn't...

Point is, Apple themselves dont develop anything on Windows. So why should we expect Microsoft to? In fact, short of iTunes, Apple does nothing for Windows. Yet we expect Office, Windows Media Player, Explorer and a fully featured Messenger. Its ridiculous.

Yahoo has only just enabled video chat on Messenger for the Mac.

fener
Sep 17, 2006, 05:33 PM
Try this:

Mercury for Mac OS X

www.mercury.to

has VIDEO and AUDIO, connects to MSN

mdntcallr
Sep 17, 2006, 05:54 PM
i love MS office. but honestly, MS is totally lame in its support of mac compatibilty. whoever pointed out there is an outside program. nice but it still sucks.

MS even cancelled mac support for windows media player.

BOO Microsoft.

myamid
Sep 17, 2006, 05:56 PM
Point is, Apple themselves dont develop anything on Windows. So why should we expect Microsoft to? In fact, short of iTunes, Apple does nothing for Windows. Yet we expect Office, Windows Media Player, Explorer and a fully featured Messenger. Its ridiculous.

Yahoo has only just enabled video chat on Messenger for the Mac.

Ridiculous? No it isn't, and there's 1 very good reason why it isn't ridiculous.
MS works very hard to make the programs you mentionned THE web-standard applications for their specific applications (whether or not they succeed is another matter). Therefore, if these are standards, it's only normal to expect these environments to be sopported on other platforms, if not to increase adoption, then to at least give the appearance of them not being a savage monopoly. It's also interesting to note that the 2-3 fields where Apple does make an effort to be a standard do have EXCELLENT windows support (iTunes, Quicktime & iPod). Ok there's a market share issue, but still!

The reason why many are complaining is because they only make a half-assed effort of it. In my opinion Office is the only product out of MS for the Mac which isn't the poor cousin of the Windows version (ok Entourage isn't quite as good of Outlook, but otherwise Office is OK).

Project
Sep 17, 2006, 06:09 PM
Ridiculous? No it isn't, and there's 1 very good reason why it isn't ridiculous.
MS works very hard to make the programs you mentionned THE web-standard applications for their specific applications (whether or not they succeed is another matter). Therefore, if these are standards, it's only normal to expect these environments to be sopported on other platforms, if not to increase adoption, then to at least give the appearance of them not being a savage monopoly. It's also interesting to note that the 2-3 fields where Apple does make an effort to be a standard do have EXCELLENT windows support (iTunes, Quicktime & iPod). Ok there's a market share issue, but still!

The reason why many are complaining is because they only make a half-assed effort of it. In my opinion Office is the only product out of MS for the Mac which isn't the poor cousin of the Windows version (ok Entourage isn't quite as good of Outlook, but otherwise Office is OK).

Nonsense. You just contradicted yourself. Microsoft does try to make its own formats THE standard - and what better way of going about that than providing half assed Mac ports?

I love my Mac and wish dearly for complete parity with Windows versions but lets be 100% real here. It makes very little business sense for Microsoft to dedicate even more resources to the Mac Business Unit, especially for free apps. While Macs maintain 3% marketshare, Microsoft does NOT need to cater to us to enforce its standards. Having an identical version of Office/WMP/IE etc gives potential switchers one less reason to be dependent on the Windows platform and thus one less Windows license sold.

Being anti-competitive is the one thing that may spur them to work harder on the Mac, but honestly Microsoft is just so big and so powerful now that Government intervention will solve nothing.

But outside of all that, I think we should moan less about this kind of stuff. As I said, Apple does nothing really for the Windows platform (iTunes because i makes them a boatload of money via iPod, akin to Office:Mac). So why do we demand that MS does anything for Apple? They've thrown more than enough lifelines to APple over the years. Its time now for Apple to start taking the battle to MS instead of being at the mercy of it. Come through hard with the iCal Server/Wiki/Teams stuff. Port iChat and make it free to Windows users. Start taking people away from MSN by supporting Jabber (hence Google) and AIM - tempt people with infinitely superior Video conferencing to the MSN client. Tie it to the iPhone. Give iWork away free with every Mac. Not bundling iWork crazy and plays right into MS's arms. Dont give MS another sale of Office for situations where iWork is perfect for home use. Release an iWork viewer for Windows so PC users can see my work. We long for Office compatibility yet iWork documents cant be properly seen by Windows users unless we export to doc/ppt nd lose half thefeatures. Its embarassing how we expect so much from the otherside yet we dont play well ourselves. Id also throw Safari out there for Windows AND Linux. Lets get some mindshare while we are at it. People are leaving IE in droves.

Lets start loosening this tight hold Microsoft has on us. Its like a shackle.

Jo-Kun
Sep 17, 2006, 06:41 PM
Try this:

Mercury for Mac OS X

www.mercury.to

has VIDEO and AUDIO, connects to MSN

hmmm no it doesn't, I use mercury... it has webcam send/receive without audio... if you want to receive audio you need VideoConferencing (wich I haven't tried yet...) so in a normal chat where you choose to send webcam there will be no audio included... just checked it to be sure...

<<
Webcam / Audio-Video Conference Support
If your webcam does not officially support Mac OS X, you may be able to get it to work with the help of drivers from Macam or from iOExperts
Both Webcam sending and receiving are possible in 1709 RC7d and later. You do NOT need the JMF for sending / receiving webcam on Mac OS X.
Mac OS X 10.2.8 and lower will not work because the quicktime libraries that are needed are not there.
Audio-Video-conferencing is supported on Mac OS X, however it is receive-only, due to an incomplete JMF library for Mac OS X. The feature is still relatively new, and so some issues may occur in use.
For more information on how to use it, please see the "Webcam, Video conference and JMF" section of the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Wiki.
>>

kingtj
Sep 18, 2006, 10:27 AM
I've actually spent some time reading the official blogs of some of the developers from the Mac Business Unit. When you look at all the comments left in response to their writings, you immediately sense a lot of frustration out there with their failure to add features or port entire applications of theirs for Mac.

There are almost never any direct responses to these comments either. Instead, the developers seem to focus on blogging about what it feels like carrying around their Apple Powerbooks or Macbooks in an otherwise all-Windows environment, or what their cubicles look like, or generic promises that "we're still working hard on Office '07!".

I can only conclude that they've been pressured by higher-ups at MS to do things "their way", and only tackle specific items that are given the "green light" by corporate. I think with MacBU, we're dealing with a small team that likes their paychecks and job security. So they just play along with whatever the rest of MS orders them to do, and occasionally has Roz Ho act as the corporate shill, putting a friendly face on the whole thing.

At the end of the day, Microsoft really only needs them to put together Office for Mac every few years. That's the product that justifies the cost of having the whole Mac division in the first place. Anything else MacBU writes are afterthoughts, or little "tidbits" MS throws the way of Apple users for the sake of further leveraging Windows use in their "world". (EG. Remote desktop client for OS X.)


a friend of mine works at Microsoft, so I asked him why msn for mac lacked some things (he's not working at he mac developing team) and he said: dunno why, because it all works with the same services...weather its a mac or pc wich connects... they just don't enable some things for mac so it seems... so its really someone at MS slowing down the mac version deliberatly... (if you want it all get Windows? no we don't...) that's why progs like aMSN Mercury etc... can work with nudges/animated gifs/winks/video because those guys found a way to hack into it and make it work... so I guess its a matter of time before they can enable all Live Messenger features... Mercury for instance is build to work on OSX/Linux/Windows because its Java (ok not the best thing to work with I hear people think... but it does work...)

saurus
Sep 18, 2006, 10:53 AM
For me, after switching email and deleteing my email addresses in Hotmail then finding that it 'conveniently' deleted all my contacts in messenger automatically, that was the final straw. Drag messenger app to trash can.

If MS thinks that they gain more customers by not including AV, they've obviously ignored my family - we're now 100% AIM/Jabber (Using Trillian on Windows for full screen video). iChat's video is more stable than MSN's anyway in my experience.

And now we have Skype AV.... woo hoo!

Microsoft, ya had your chance and you blew it. Party's over. Too late guys.

billyboy
Sep 18, 2006, 12:14 PM
I was surprised to see skype appear on the desktop at a local cyber cafe. Cool. I prefer it over Messenger because the IM is encrypted, I believe. Not that the hot conversations with my girlie need encrypting, but it is nice to know that no one else can listen in!

No video with the mac version of messenger is a blessing actually because my father in law is a raving euro continental and I still havent got over him video chatting on Windows MSN in the nude. Thank god the cam was focussed on his face.

Coda
Sep 18, 2006, 01:39 PM
I'm using mercury messenger... works very good, my iSight is supported and I can videochat with windows msn clients (no audio so far)...

What do you do with no audio? Use Sign Language? :D

Jo-Kun
Sep 18, 2006, 01:47 PM
What do you do with no audio? Use Sign Language? :D

no, we have keyboards... ;-) and its allready nice to see each other on msn when we want it... what else can you do until audio is supported? run windows again? well sorry to tell vista on my macbook ends up being not able to use the iSight & has no audiodrivers that work on the macbook... no I have no XP disc...