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GeneR
Apr 2, 2003, 11:16 AM
I am intrigued by the increasing number of stories I am hearing about individuals networking over the internet, and creating online companies, projects, etc. without ever meeting. I suppose you can consider this my own investigation into that arena.

I have an idea for a very low budget Mini-DV film that I have been thinking about shooting in the next few months.

I was wondering if there were any of the following here who would like to volunteer their time and services (for back end percent of the film) once it's done. There would be no upfront monetary compensation and people involved would have to be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement, but if it goes well, then profit participation would be part of the deal.

I am looking for:

People whom are willing to volunteer time possibly doing:

1.) Animation (Maya, etc.)
2.) AfterEffects composite work
3.) Photoshop retouching of frames.
4.) Rendering large files.

5.) If you're an actor, yes, I would be intested in a headshot and resume if you're in the LA area.
6.) If you're not an actor, and live in the Los Angeles area, yes, I may be interested in working together anyway.
7.) People who may have access to sound stages, lighting equipment, or even cameras.
8.) Final Cut Pro editing.
9.) Writers - People interested in taking stabs at the film concept itself.
10.) Film production crew -- people familiar with lighting a set.
11.) People interested in financing the project.

Consider this a non-union film production, wherein:
* SAGIndie guidelines are not going to be applied (unless insurance is indeed used),
* Where most of the shooting will be on the fly (unless a budget materializes)
* Where shooting schedules will be dependent on coordinating schedules,
* Insurance and pay is not provided and each member will have to sign waiver contracts which release the director-producer and production from any responsibility for any potential damages to personnel or property occurred during produciton.

Think of this project as a fun project because that is what it will be. It involves a lot of sweat and toil but it may be something that all who participate may find fun and exciting.

Depending on the number of people who respond, I will provide a synopsis of the storyline in a private forum once intellectual copyrights have been registered.

Well, this should be interesting... Or very underwhelming! :D

Mr. Anderson
Apr 2, 2003, 11:44 AM
I'd be interested in seeing more of what you have in mind before considering adding some support.

D

000111one111000
Apr 2, 2003, 11:54 AM
I'm near Chicago. What's the film going to be about?

I'd be interested in helping anyway I can.

enoch

boskie
Apr 2, 2003, 12:21 PM
Sound's like a cool idea.

I work at a post-production house and this would be great to relieve the boredom of the reality TV shows that are being cut here at the mo!!

We use AVID and I also have access to FCP.

GeneR
Apr 2, 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
I'd be interested in seeing more of what you have in mind before considering adding some support.

D

That's pretty fair, D. This is what I plan to do:

1.) I'm going to see the responses to the film idea thread.

2.) depending on what the response is, I would disclose more about the project. However, I can say this much:

I am considering to shoot one of a couple of concepts I have been developing. One of them, would definitely be a low budget 90 minute - 120 minute film that has a spiritual theme to it. This would require less special effects (hardly any at all, in fact) and would really benefit from brainstorming.

The other one is an effects-ladened piece. This has to do with virtual reality and espionage. People interested in Maya and AfterEffects would definitely be welcome.

I'll disclose more info later, but I do not expect anyone to commit or collaborate unless/until we get enough interest in the project.

PREPRODUCTION:
3.) Should this be a "go", I think the best thing to do is to go into script sessions, breaking down the concept and providing the synopsis while developing the overall vision of the project. Storyboards would be in order, and I would be happy to oblige providing them in a closed forum.

4.) After that, it's a matter of asking who's in and who's out. If the project does not appeal, than fine. Should the film reach completion, anyone who contributed to the pre-production part would still be entitled to a percentage of the finished project.

5.) Scheduling the Project.
This will be a matter of constructing a budget and scheduling issues.

PRODUCTION:
6.) Enough said about this for now. More later. Just remember, this is all about volunteer work, so, unless you have the time to spare, this project may not be your cup of tea.

POST-PRODUCTION:
7.) Depending how coordinated people are willing to be, this may even be concurrent with the Pre-Production and Production phase.

AFTERWARDS:
8.) Marketing and Distribution.
This will depend on a predefined/discussed plan of action. Film Festivals may be the best way to go on this, maximizing exposure. Sundance's deadline is in October. But other channels may be considered.

MARKETING ANGLE: Should this project work, it may generate interest should to be marketed as one of the first online collaborations for film production. (Is it really? I don't know to tell you the truth. But to my knowledge there hasn't been much hype in doing such a thing so it may very well be true.)

Couple that angle with a very low-low budget, I would think it might be innovative enough to produce enough free publicity on those merts alone.

PROFIT PARTICIPATION IDEA:
Should someone wish to buy the film (that would be good!), the project would be sold for the most upfront money possible and the money distributed to each contributing member of the production (the percentages would be determined after final production costs of time and effort were factored from all people). During the production itself, each contributiing member (myself included) would be assigned a point(1% of ownership) of the production. This should (hopefully) leave a surplus of unawarded points.

The remainder of the points of ownership through a concensus of participants and would be determined later after the final product is completed.

PROFITS:
Nobody involved should expect to make any money from the actual distribution of the film. (That seems to rarely happen in Hollywood). Rather, they should expect to make money from selling the finished film outright to a film distributor.

RISK:
There is always a risk whenever doing a film that the darn thing just won't sell. That means all of the time and energy may be "for naught" if money is one's end objective.

Should it not sell (which is always part of the risk of film prodution), at the very least, each of the contributing parties would have pride of ownership and participation in this experiment and credit for film work for their resumes (or for their personal satisfaction).

CHAIN OF COMMAND:
Chain of command will be determined by the experience and abilities provided by participating members.

I would still be the director and producer of the production with final say on any decisions (unless a more capable producer is to be had) but would be willing to hear each person's point of view and come up with the most mutually beneficial results.

FUNDRAISING:
This is still something worth exploring. Part of this experiment is derived from the fact that people are making really good quality films now with Mini-DV which are a fraction of the cost of union films. This is understandable.

However, also is true that people are finding that even a few dollars here or there add up, so if members wish to contribute even a few dollars to the budget then they are welcome to do so. Every little bit helps.

I believe I heard the story that the director, Aronovsky, who directed PI and REQUIEM FOR A DREAM (two of my favorites, by the way), raised money for the second film by having his people actually ask for money/panhandle on the sidewalks of New York.

Is it true?

Possibly. I believe the amount they raised was in the neighborhood of a few hundred thousand for the final budget. So, it can be done. But the point I wanted to make is: every little bit helps.

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS:
What would help is understanding each person's 1.) skill set and 2.) resources.

1.) MY SKILL SETS:
For me, I've an MFA if Film from Art Center College of Design and did a stint at UCLA for screenwriting. While in Film School, I've produced other people's material (commercials, music videos, etc.) but did not work on my own directing reel. I am currently doing a short film to remedy that and will make it available to anyone interested at a later date (hopefully within the next month or two.)

My greatest strengths (so I have been told):
a.) Concepts (I've had more than a few offers to buy my material in the past. Call me a purest, I'd rather stay independent for the time being.)
b.) Directing/Coordinating (I think I'm pretty motivational, organized, and easy to get along with).
c.) Writing and Editing stories (I'm pretty good at this, I believe. It may have to due with an over-active right brain-left brain thing happening ;D ).
d.) Editing (This is one of my personal favorites. FCP really makes it more and more fun).
e.) Producing (I think I'm pretty good with this. I've been told I'm usually more worried about the budget and the financier's money than the financiers themselves. Call me anal about such matters -- I take that as a source of pride).

2.) RESOURCES:
a.) PAL Mini-DV camera (Sony-TRV900e) that shoots 25fps progressive scan.

b.) Two Macs. One an G3 366Mhz iBook Clam (no combo drive), and one (1) G3 300Mhz BW Tower. 256MB Ram, 110 GB HD. FCP 1.25, OSX 10.1.4, and Photoshop, a very old After Effects 4, and some other programs... No Maya or high-end 3D software solutions.

That's about it for now. If other people wish to sugest another course of action/revision of these ideas, please feel free to do so. I think the important point is to remember that this is an experiment for the time being unless it takes on a life of its own. One can only hope and wait and see, right?

Thanks! :D

teabgs
Apr 20, 2003, 09:16 PM
Well, I might be interested, though after the summer I wont have much time (Senior thesis animated film from August03 to May04). I'll be doing some preproduction over the summer, but might have free time(depending on what I end up doing this summer).

I'd want to see a script or at least a treatment though. I'll be editing a short (about 15-20 minutes) this summer as well, so I also would have to possibly schedule this in with that as well.

GeneR
Apr 21, 2003, 07:44 PM
Okay, so I've gotten a few people emailing me saying they're interested in helping. And a few people responding here. So far, the prevailing question is primarily: what is the concept?

This is my POV:
I'm working on several projects right now. My idea is to create something that will deal with either some special effects or none at all. Bottom line: to tell a good story.

But to reveal the storyline upfront is not wise due to the public nature of this forum. After copyrights are in order, then the concept can be shared. This is a copyright issue and once it's taken care of I think it's worth sharing.

This is really a CYA issue. Story concepts are gold and it is my belief after listening to plenty of industry veterans that people rip of each other all the time. Even if the potential participants are trustworthy (I am inclined to believe so) it seems a given in the film industry that people will read the concept, put it down as bad or discredit it (so they can go away and steal the idea and claim that they "parallel developed" their own idea. Its their way of getting around the copyright claim)

Once the copyright's in order, I'll let people know whether it requires post-production help or not, what I am looking to shoot in the ways of budget. I don't expect people who participate to volunteer their own time and resources (and especially not their money) unless they feel good about this project. The project idea was conceived as a way to create a film with almost no budget using a community of volunteers and Mac enthusiasts who may provide great creative collaboration.

If financing happens, then it happens. The most important issue here is a good story. A good story won't need a big budget if shot on DV.

At the same time, as I said it the beginning: this is all about fun.

It would help if people who are interested/still interested to give me an idea of what they do/can do. Right now I know what I can do, but knowing who the potential co-workers are would be helpful and even necessary to figure a proposal. Anyway, I'll keep people posted.

Any thoughts or comments can still be directed via email or PM. Thanks! :)

JesseJames
Apr 29, 2003, 02:36 PM
Man, production companies. They come and go. How can anyone be in such a volatile business?

dstorey
Apr 29, 2003, 03:16 PM
I kinda had a similar idea but instead of a movie it was an album or two. The band was gonna be called Lisa From The Zoo and I though different people could sign u and write songs and others could edit them and the best versions and songswould get chosen and recorded by whoever wanted to then produced and everyone that contributed got listed in the sleeve nots and on the web site. there would have to be a certain number of core members that are on most the stuff and pick the best stuff....I never got round to makeing the web site thuogh...

GeneR
Apr 30, 2003, 02:45 PM
RE: City of Glass's questions:

I am not exactly certain I understand the last paragraph, City of Glass. But I will take a stab at it. I think you're asking whether or not one is looking to do a project out of ambition or out of service to others. If this is correct, please let me know.

For a moment, I'm going to assume that this is the meaning of the last paragraph. This is my take on the craft:

1.) Directing is an art. But a Director also has to be a business man and wear both caps: as the artist who creates for the joy of creating something that entertains, and as a businessman who understands that every undertaking needs to yield a certain level of profitability.

2.) Entertainment, by definition is to amuse, or to divert attention in a pleasing manner. However, IMHO it is often taken too seriously. At the end of the day, it's just entertainment.

Perhaps because it risks becoming propaganda or instruction when used deliberately to control others(?)

I've said this before to another user and I guess I'll say it again: it's not like you're teaching a third world country how to speak English or created a vaccine which will wipe out polio.

It's just entertainment.

Where the confusion about this fact lies is that the creative process of making a film is exhilerating, and the hype around productions and their need to sell the product often obscures the truth.

3.) To provide catharsis and inspiration to the general public, is to be blessed with that opportunity. It is perhaps the best outcome for which one can hope. It is an honor to serve others, to hopefully make the lives of the viewers a bit brighter for the experience. If this can be achieved in the story, then we as storytellers can not really ask for a better gift.

If you're familiar with a film called, Sullivan's Travels, you may see what I am saying. In a lot of ways I have found that my own life has paralleled a bit of this movie. The end conclusion is that the joy and honor of helping others who are in pain, is the greatest gift.

4.) In the end, the film industry like any other industry: it is just an industry. What's more important is the friends and family that you have.

For all of the hype that is created about movies, they are simply forms of entertainment. And movie stars are just people whom have been packaged as sellable commodies/personalities whom also have good publicists.

At the end of the day: we're all simply people who are doing our respective crafts. And living ans storytelling is about honoring and respecting other people and oneself. Anyone who tells you differently or tries to put someone up on a pedestal is trying to sell you something.

So, the question I think is: are we writing and directing and producing for the maid?

Yes.

Are we also doing the same thing as business men for the greatest number of people?

Yes.

Are we doing this for the lonely person in the back of the room sitting by themselves who comes to the theatres to breath a bit of life into their rather burdened life?

Yes.

And hopefully, it is the maid and the lonely person who get the most out of it. :D

GeneR
May 2, 2003, 04:41 PM
Not to make light of what you said, City of Glass, but rather to understand your point of view, I will try to interpret your meaning:

In truth, man seeks his own truth that is unique to who he is: his soul, his identity. Self-expression therefore is tantamount to seizing that truth without compromise or without consideration of causes or merits or social obligations or even beliefs about what social obligation means.

In summary: to thyne own self be true.

I hope this is not a simplistic rendering of what you explained. If I am wrong, I appreciate the feedback. However, I wonder if we're talking about creating film collaborations here (which, I hope you agree is both an art and a business) or about the merits of artistic integrity. I thought the point of this idea was to explore the former, while encouraging the later.

Taking both in stride, thus, I would think the real question is: with whom would you like to work? Does it compromise who you are? Again, if there is a mistake in interpreting your point of view, I would appreciate the clarification.

Thanks. Most interesting feedback. ;)

dstorey
May 2, 2003, 04:44 PM
got any ideas for the sound track?

edit: I'm quite intrested in helping as I've got nothing on at the moment. I've got no skills in that area but i'm willing to help anyway i can or learn whatever. I'm a computer science graduate so my skills lie in that direction but i also write lyrics and things like that...i could always add my day dreams to the project or review a script or something....

GeneR
May 2, 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
got any ideas for the sound track?

How's that for an answer? :D

But seriously, I'm still pretty open to ideas from other people. One MR user has approached me about doing the music and they sound really competent. I think it will still be a matter of debate until the final script is locked down.

Right now, I have been working on two scripts. One is a supernatural thriller and the other is more of a science fiction story which may be mor techno. For some odd reason, I tend to favor drama and action adventure.

I guess that may not answer your question, dstorey. However, that's all I can offer at the moment. Maybe even that will help.

P.S. Why do you ask? :D

Side note:
I'm beginning to think that perhaps, as this project takes on more life and more people express interest, at the very least this project may be the start of some very good networking of talented individuals whom can forge great relationships with one another and where (oh yeah!) everyone's smart enough to be Mac users! :D

dstorey
May 2, 2003, 05:04 PM
I just asked because I'm very intrested in music, but have never though much about music in movies but it's an intresting area. I thought knocking on heavens door took on a whole new poweful level when i saw the trailer for black hawk down and that was playing while the action was in slow motion...sadly the rest of the movie wasn't as good. I would say i was intrested in making music for the movie but i'm not that talented and my bands not in good collectivr shape at the moment as we need a new drummer and the guitarist lives in another country and I can't write music.

I have some ideas for a story/movie myself but it may not fit in with this project, was more gonna just be a short story i never got round to writing.

Sadly I'm not a mac user....yet. Money dictates that.

I've always thought a documentry style movie would be good as an indie flick...can kinda do them lower budget and seems very lifelike so you can create more suspense/fright or belivabilty and ultimatly leave an impression on the viewer. I think city of god is an intresting concept but have yet to see it sadly..its on my list of must see's though.

I guess for the movie you wont have commercial music due to copyright reasons.

ratspg
May 2, 2003, 05:53 PM
I am a Film composer, and write music for film as a living. I would definitley enjoy creating some mixes for this project, PM me with more info, thanx ;):rolleyes:

dstorey
May 2, 2003, 06:58 PM
i know brad fRiedel...ex liverpool, present blackburn goalie

GeneR
May 3, 2003, 12:32 AM
TO: ratspg
Thanks for posting. I appreciate the info. I'll be PM people whom are interested from time to time. But for right now, what I've told dstorey is just about all I can devulge at this point. Shooting in DV is probably going to be the format to keep the budget light.

TO: dstorey
I appreciate your input and enthusiasm as well. From your posts I would think that if your band isn't really in shape, hopefully at some point it will be. Personally, I believe that old saying, "when one door closes, another one opens." Maybe that's corny. I've been known to be that "eternal optimist" to my friends and believe that there is a creative process that needs to be respected. So, maybe your interest in witing may mean something too? Dunno.

I really appreciate documentaries. In my own opinion (for what it's worth) I agree: I think that documentaries are a really great format for indie flicks. I believe they are a very under-utilized format which has become more popular over the years.

Maybe your strength lies in your ideas and your ability to critically and creatively think about a situation? Once again, I don't know. But wish you the best.

Take care.

Gene

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 12:56 AM
You didn't mention music.

If you need music along experimental/electro-acoustic lines, I'd be happy to do everything for small sum of money. The amount would of course depend on how much work there was for me to do.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by City of Glass
Go to the Apple Store, buy "Reason 2.0," download a few supplementary tracks, and create God-worthy concertos by twisting virtual "levers" and "knobs."

There's your stinking soundtrack.

City

of

Glass

I'm not sure exactly who or what that was attacking, but damn, it was brutal.

But yeah.. don't do that.. lol.

dstorey
May 3, 2003, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by springscansing
You didn't mention music.

If you need music along experimental/electro-acoustic lines, I'd be happy to do everything for small sum of money. The amount would of course depend on how much work there was for me to do.

From what I understand from this thread it will all be unpaid and done for the art/fun of it until/if the film gets a deal then you will be paid based on your contribution. Maybe if your intrsted you could think some ideas up, do a quick take and ppost the somewhere though i guess thats difficut without knowing what the films about...just an idea

GeneR:

The strength in documentaries has to be in making them convincing to the viewer that they are real or could be...and i guess thats the difficult part.

I'm a quite good ideas man if i have someone to bounce them off...once someone plants an idea i can run away with it its just getting the initial seed thats often difficult. I guess my critical skills are good as I used to get top marks at uni for all the critical analysing we had to do for assignments.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by dstorey
From what I understand from this thread it will all be unpaid and done for the art/fun of it until/if the film gets a deal then you will be paid based on your contribution.

I realize that, but he's going to have a rough time finding anyone to do an original composition for a movie they know nothing about for free. :-)

dstorey
May 3, 2003, 03:52 AM
maybe he'll get that original guy from the velvet undergroud...you know the one that left cause he was discusted they were selling art for money...like how many records did the velvets sell then? maybe a hundred or so...dam how he would squirm at the likes of Britney etc....oh that guys dead i remember so maybe not....I think some people may do it for the art though, but i agree a rough concept of story line or concept would have to be drawn up even just to see if the style will suit the music people produce.

Personnaly for this flick, i'd like to see real music, in whatever style, not just some knob twiddling wuith samples or whatever that could be done just on some software package...it would be great to have some art in the music and originallity as well as the movie it's self. Your experimental electro/acoustic sounds a good idea. I;d like to see some guitar work in there and some soundscapes but obvs its not up to me as i'm not the director or even really involved at the moment.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by dstorey
maybe he'll get that original guy from the velvet undergroud...you know the one that left cause he was discusted they were selling art for money...like how many records did the velvets sell then? maybe a hundred or so...dam how he would squirm at the likes of Britney etc....oh that guys dead i remember so maybe not....I think some people may do it for the art though, but i agree a rough concept of story line or concept would have to be drawn up even just to see if the style will suit the music people produce.

Personnaly for this flick, i'd like to see real music, in whatever style, not just some knob twiddling wuith samples or whatever that could be done just on some software package...it would be great to have some art in the music and originallity as well as the movie it's self. Your experimental electro/acoustic sounds a good idea. I;d like to see some guitar work in there and some soundscapes but obvs its not up to me as i'm not the director or even really involved at the moment.

I'm not sure why you feel the way music is created impacts if it is "real" music or not...

I can bang a can against your forehead and it could be music to me.

And electro-acoustic has nothing to do with guitars.. at least not usually.

dstorey
May 3, 2003, 04:22 AM
i just meant real as in real instruments...not just a computer virtually creating things...but maybe i'm traditional like that...real instruments have, warmth, feeling, character, imperfections etc...virtual are well that virtual, perfect, sterile etc...but thats not the topic of this thread. I'm not closed minded in that i wont listen to any of that stuff, just i prefere the former.

ratspg
May 3, 2003, 12:48 PM
I am a Classically trained pianist, and have dwelled into many playing styles. I do film composition, and the last thing I'd want to do is put a techno/electronic track on this. The sound needs to be real! :) and money shouldn't need to be involved, sure it's nice in the end if it makes something, but this is a fun project.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by ratspg
I am a Classically trained pianist, and have dwelled into many playing styles. I do film composition, and the last thing I'd want to do is put a techno/electronic track on this. The sound needs to be real! :) and money shouldn't need to be involved, sure it's nice in the end if it makes something, but this is a fun project.

There's a lot more to electronic music than "techno."

Much of today's experimental music is created via electronic means, and is fantastic.

*sigh*

ratspg
May 3, 2003, 02:16 PM
You don't need to *sigh*, I am fully aware of electronic music and computers being used for them, how else would I be able to compose, I can't hire an orchestra! VSTi, DirectX, AudioUnits, REason*, Native Instruments, Cubase, Logic...the list goes on....computers are of course the tool. Sure techno is an example, maybe I made it too general, I didn't mean it to be as the ONLY electronic type. I do think its great for samples, but when I'm doing the FINAL job, we do hire real musicians. When I lay out my ideas, anything and everything is through my computer. It sure is fun ;)

lol, i can't spell when i type quick.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 08:34 PM
While I agree with you City of Glass (which I why I'd only do it if I was getting payed), your comments there were exceedingly pretentious and very insulting to the people who just enjoy working with others for free.

The fact that this makes you 'sour in the stomach' really speaks volumes about your maturity.

Seriously though, that was the most pretentious post I've ever seen on a message board, anywhere (mine included). If anyone's reputation is total ****, its your's. Now I'm assuming you're about 14-17 based on your comments, so you have time to clean up you act before you enter the real world. I suggest you do that.

dstorey
May 3, 2003, 08:59 PM
I really really dunno what you ae on about city of glass... People want to give their free time to some project for the fun of it, or to create something that they alone couldn't do (no film is made with only one person). People are willing to give their free time without the promise of getting paid...and it makes you sick...are you some kind of major label spice girls manager or something...thats what it seems like to me...If your not intrested then leave others be, don't hang round like a bad smell. There is no promise of this being a sucessful indie flick...It's just a 'hey i've got an idea, we are kinda friends here and there are likely to be people here with the talent to makr a dream come true'. Hows people working to make their dreams come true sickening...i really dunno.

springscansing
May 3, 2003, 09:01 PM
Just look at his signature. That should explain everything.

howard
May 3, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by City of Glass
This thread disgusts me.

I am literally sour in the stomach after reading the comments posted here -- what are we, vultures? The extent to which some people grope for "projects" like this is staggering, absolutely staggering . . .

Why are so many of you posting "mini-resumes," in the hopes of latching on to "good independent movie" or "Cannes film festival winning" success? In doing so your personal integrity is tarnished to the point of compulsive and unrestrained submission.

Do something for yourself . . . depend on no one.

Knowing a Sane Mind will Choose the Right Thing,


City

of

Glass

why are you wasting your time on this thread then...

do us all a favor and go away.

teabgs
May 4, 2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by howard
why are you wasting your time on this thread then...

do us all a favor and go away.

2nd that....

every one of city's posts have been pointless and arrogant and non-constructive.


Get off of your computer, go out and meet some people city...please

boskie
May 4, 2003, 08:24 AM
When i first showed interest in this project it was not for the "indie" status, but was the community aspect of a possible collabaration over the internet. I think it could become a huge success of social engineering whatever the outcome.

I'm not here to boast, critisize or try to out smart anyone.

I came for the company.

All i can say is that i pity you City of Glass, and in some way can relate to what you are saying - both in your words, your handle and your sig.

To quote a great british poet (http://www.rootsmanuva.co.uk/) - well he talks sense to me - this is how i see you feel:

...I feel like i'm in a glass house where everybody's throwin stones...

I hope that this project will delevop into something, even if at the end of it all i get out of it is another vhs of something i have contributed to.

dstorey
May 4, 2003, 10:47 AM
so we are all unintellgent are we. Hmmm thats even bigger genralisation. I for one have a First class degree...I don't think I'd have one of them if I didn't know any 'inteligent words' or only 'non-intellugent' ideas.

No it might not be everyones main dream to be a film director, actor or whatever but people can dream about whatever they want to...you can want to be a football star but still think, hey wouldn't it be a great dream to be part of some movie where I've actually contributed and made a difference somewhere a long the line. Even though I want to be a musician, I've often thought, i'd be a dream come true to be a soccer player, or be involved in a movie or be an architect or whatever.

If you hate the idea so much why don't you just let others be, and just ignore this thread or do you have to save us from the bowls of hell or something?

howard
May 4, 2003, 11:00 AM
city,
you don't know our background, you don't know the people we are, you don't know what we do.

make sure you understand that about everyone when you visit any forum.

you seem to think that we are ignorant people leaping at this project blindly thinking that we will become amazingly successful and our lives will be wonderful. whatever gave you that notion i'm not sure. all of us here have jobs..or go to school, or are doing ok in the world. hell its a macs site and everyone knows they arn't cheap. i still don't understand what your problem is with this idea. its a guy who wants to try something new asking for some help and people who think yeah, that could be fun doing and offering there help.

did you ever make home videos with your friends when you were a kid? or did you pass on that because it wasn't good enough or you wouldn't become successful for it? success isn't a bad thing...but neither is fun.

i'm still wondering why your posting all this anyway? i still don't see your point. are you trying to help us out? do you think we need help? half the time your making things up....where does it say we want to be great film makers and we're going to do this with this indie film? your reading in between the lines and theres nothing there to read.

like i asked before please stop posting in this thread, we don't want or need your input.

arn
May 4, 2003, 03:38 PM
if you don't care for a project... please refrain from commenting... or at least be constructive.

User warned.

arn

howard
May 4, 2003, 04:04 PM
thanks arn :)

ratspg
May 4, 2003, 07:54 PM
Yeah, seriously. It's better to just reply if you are interested in the topic. Not give us commentary both left and right. This project is an excellent idea, and I'm completely for it.

P-Worm
May 4, 2003, 08:05 PM
Well, I would love to help if you would let me. I edit in Final Cut Pro and my friend does 3d animation and modeling. He's very good you can see his work here. (http://www.wings3d.com/gallery/head.php)

P-Worm

City of Glass
May 4, 2003, 08:06 PM
What you must do, GeneR, is "get connected" with someone -- someone who "knows someone," then befriend that individual. For example, James Cameron's daughter is available for dating. That would be a nice wedge in the world of Hollywood politics.

I'm friends with a former employee of Stan Winston Studios, now doing special effects for independent films. He would be very delighted by this project.

Shall I e-mail you more specifics?


Sincerely Yours,


C.o.G.

GeneR
May 4, 2003, 08:24 PM
Thanks, Arn.

RE: Apology
My apologies first to anyone if I offended them in anyway on this thread. That was NEVER my intention. If I do ask for help, it's genuine. I really did want to know what C.o.G. meant. However, it appears I only insulted C.o.G. and for that my heart-felt apology to C.o.G. and anyone else who had to brave these last few days.

RE: Boski's comment.
I have to agree. The original intention of this project was to explore alternative means of creating films online and to find people with whom I would enjoy possibly working in the future. I do believe that is approach is the future. And I do believe that the process is being explored here, and hopefully, elsewhere as well where we find people with similar interests and good will.

Social engineering is something that I feel is being greatly affected by the internet and if this does promote the creative collaborative art of film making in a new manner I would feel blessed to be a part of that experience.

At this time, I believe the world is undergoing a tremendous amount of soul-searching as we ponder issues of individual, group, ethnic, spiritual and national identity in light of the globalization (excuse this overused word) of many industries. As a result, conventional means of doing almost any discipline may change as a result.

If we can help make filmmaking a much more dynamic medium through the internet, I think this would be a good thing.

RE: Springscansing's POV
I agree that people should get paid for their work. Maybe artists more than any other group for artists put a great deal of themselves into their projects and should be compensated for that effort.

Since I began this thread I have been looking into alternative means of financing to help offset these needs (which is fair), but I am still working on this and do not know if this will happen, so I haven't said anything. And, for that reason, I have run this thread with the premise that there is no compensation involved, only profit participation.

However, I do think this idea we're discussing could do better from a marketing standpoint if it is made for an extremely low budget. In my opinion, the novelty of making a film for next to nothing was one of the best marketing points usd by Richard Rodriguez's El Mariachi.

Once again, should financing materialize, I would be happy to deal with the needs of the people involed. However, I am asking those who may be interested to realize that this has not developed yet.

RE: Storyline.
Most of my stories do deal with issues of identity. I think it is a topical issue. And, as I finish these scripts I would be honored to share it with the people involved.

One thing about these bulletin boards that appeals to me is the fact that: by making the project highly visible, we may in fact be safeguarding and reinforcing the natural rights as imposed by the Copyright department. Logic: people whom steal concepts may be less prone to do so for projects that are in the public eye.

Anway, those are my thoughts. I will keep people informed and do my best to hopefully not anger too many people along the way.

Take care.


Gene

GeneR
May 4, 2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by City of Glass
What you must do, GeneR, is "get connected" with someone -- someone who "knows someone," then befriend that individual. For example, James Cameron's daughter is available for dating. That would be a nice wedge in the world of Hollywood politics.

I'm friends with a former employee of Stan Winston Studios, now doing special effects for independent films. He would be very delighted by this project.

Shall I e-mail you more specifics?

Sincerely Yours,

C.o.G.

Thanks for your kind offer, C.o.G. I appreciate your advice and will take it under advisement.

RE: Cameron's daughter.
That may be interesting, however, I already have a girlfriend. ;)

RE: your FX friend.
I would appreciate any further information you would care to provide. Once, again, the point of this thread was started to explore collaboration over the internet, however if we can all benefit, that I can only think of that as a good thing.

TO: P-Worm
Thank you for your interest too. Please feel free to PM me with further info about your editing skills and your friend.

Gene

dstorey
May 5, 2003, 04:55 AM
Thanks for the email Gene, apreciate it.

As the project is starting to get off the ground a little, maybe it's time to think of a project name (not film name, far too early) or a name for the partnership team. Although not important in itself it gives an identity to fall behind and work for and better than just saying the project or such like. Maybe its a good idea to create an open or closed (with password protection) web site in the near future...just a simple one, but somewhere to be able to post documents, log each others skills and whatever else needed when the time comes to get down to business. Maybe some people skilled in design could do a concept logo for the team/project to show their skills. ~Just an idea...

Stike
May 5, 2003, 06:32 AM
This whole project sounds very promising, and I am interested to give the story a good development, and set some plot points and such ;)

I am currently on the way to become an independent screenwriter, doing it for a living... It may be a small drawback that I am not a native english speaker, but that should work out anyway.

Just mail me, Gene, if you´re interested.

GeneR
May 5, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by dstorey
Thanks for the email Gene, apreciate it.

As the project is starting to get off the ground a little, maybe it's time to think of a project name (not film name, far too early) or a name for the partnership team. Although not important in itself it gives an identity to fall behind and work for and better than just saying the project or such like. Maybe its a good idea to create an open or closed (with password protection) web site in the near future...just a simple one, but somewhere to be able to post documents, log each others skills and whatever else needed when the time comes to get down to business. Maybe some people skilled in design could do a concept logo for the team/project to show their skills. ~Just an idea...

My apologies, dstorey, and to everyone else:
You've hit upon a very good point. To create a private website really is what I am planning as the next phase to this collaboration. The reason why I haven't locked into the idea yet, is simply the issue of: Point of Entry. I'm still meditating on the proper procedures to take after the group formation has taken place.

RE: A Name
A name is important. I haven't been concentrating on it, but would be open to the suggestions of others on the board. Hopefully it's not too silly (iwannamakeafilm.com) or too serious of a title. :D But it would be a good idea to here what other people think about this.

TO: Stike
Thank you for your interest. Please feel free to share a bit more about your interests and goals with me and the rest (if you like). I think we could all benefit from your expertise.

Personally, regarding language skills. I think the bottom line is whether one can tell a good story. Don't you agree? :D

TO: All contributors - a safeguard.
Please bear in mind: I do this with a lot of my friends and I will ask that in the name of artistic integrity, personal self-regard, and to alleviate any fears about personal credit and contributions: I will ask that you please cc: on all correspondences with myself and anyone else in this group.

I believe this project hinges on trust and good will above all other considerations. It is why this idea was posed in the first place. We are currently (and probably always will be) in the trust building/ get-to-know-you stage (I think) and I believe there is a great deal of good will to be shared here. By doing this, I think we will be able to maintain this level of trust and the integrity of our project. ;)

Take care.

Gene :D

dstorey
May 5, 2003, 04:46 PM
no need to aplogise. I was just asking to see if you had thought of it. I guess for starters we could ask arn to create a private thread when we have enough contributers but I dunno if he found it was possible or not.

As for a name, i dont really have any ideas at the moment. When i first create a project it usually just gets called Monde for a while as i like the look of the word for some reason. I would maybe be an idea to relate to the fact its a worldwide project in the name or something to do with dreams or the like. Im not really very good with names. I guess it has to be something catchy if we are to draw attention to it.

Stike
May 6, 2003, 04:53 AM
Here are some small related facts about me...
I like suspense and drama movies, but I also like popcorn-flicks (with their usual, obvious errors and flaws, like XMen2 yesterday...lol). I never tried before, but I think it would be hard to be funny, i.e. writing a really good comedy. If I had to do it, I would try to take Chaplin´s humor as a goal... it had the right mix of sadness and humor.

Generally, I like films that "take it´s time" to develop drama, but also, I like a subtle addition of fantasy and fiction.
I guess, the films that influenced me most are Akira, Blade Runner, Seven, Dark City, Chinatown, Quills and of course some of Kubrick´s works.

I am looking forward to Bruce Almighty, man, this film could have been cool, but why did they make a comedy of it...:( :o :rolleyes:

More later, having lunch now! :D

Edit: Concerning the name of the game - I think it is not so important to have a name right now. We should better exchange eMail addresses and such (or open a private forum elsewhere) and get the infos flowing.:D

dstorey
May 6, 2003, 04:44 PM
I guess its a good time to list so far people in this thread that have expressed interest and the roles they would like to take, the concepts so far and what software skills we may need, as a recap so that we dont need to trawl through the threat. This diesn't take nito account perople that have emailed or Pm'd GeneR and i could be wrong with roles, software etc as i'm not experienced in movie making. Sorry if i missed anyone.

Director: GeneR
Script/concept: GeneR, Stike
unspecified/want more info first: dukestreet, 000111one111000,
production:
post-production: boskie, P-Worm, teabags
FX/modeling: P-Worm's friend
Soundtrack: ratspg, springscansing, howard

Concepts: low budget spiritual thriller(?)/ effects ladened VR/Espionage sci fi

Software: final cut pro, shake(?), DVD studio pro (?), Logic(?), Pro tools (?), Maya, Cubase, Digital Performer.
---------------------------------------------

Now a few ideas I have on things.

Funding: This is going to be difficult unless anyone here is well off and generous. One idea is to do a similar thing to the rumour sites and ask for donations through paypal when we have a web presence and to sell things like mugs, t shirtsand movie posters through the same thing as Arn uses. Next sponsorship or advertising on the web site could be used. A long shot maybe but contacting Apple could be an idea saying we are using most of their software and ask for a feature on the hot news page and an advert from them (of course software/hardware donations would be most welcome ;))

Keeping costs down: As i think i've mentioned, keeping the concept as near future if the sci fi route is taken will keep costs down as les effects and costumes etc. An idea to get cheaper costumes and the like would be to contact universities/students if they could produce certain clothes and art work as a project. Many students find it hard to find good projects, they don't get paid and would jump at the chance that their work could get high exposure...its just important to pik the good ones that are organised and willing to work.

ummmm, i think thats it for now...probably fogot something....

[Moved howard and teabags to correct position | added cubase and DP]

teabgs
May 6, 2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by dstorey

production: teabags


Not sure how I got there. I'd like more info. If I was to help out it'd most likely be in post, or SFX...also post (Maya).

ratspg
May 6, 2003, 05:03 PM
i use two apps mainly. usually cubase sx... but if i must i could use logic, but i'm much more into cubase sx on OSx. Just for anyone wondering about syncing/setup issues, etc etc. audio can be exported to any format pretty much.

GeneR
May 6, 2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by dstorey


Director: GeneR
Script/concept: GeneR, Stike
unspecified/want more info first: dukestreet, 000111one111000,
production:
(2nd unit director) boskie,
post-production: P-Worm,
FX/modeling: teabgs, P-Worm's friend
Soundtrack: howard, ratspg, springscansing

Concepts: low budget spiritual thriller(?)/ effects ladened VR/Espionage sci fi

Software: final cut pro, shake(?), DVD studio pro (?), Logic(?), Pro tools (?), Maya.
---------------------------------------------

Now a few ideas I have on things.

Funding: This is going to be difficult unless anyone here is well off and generous. One idea is to do a similar thing to the rumour sites and ask for donations through paypal when we have a web presence and to sell things like mugs, t shirtsand movie posters through the same thing as Arn uses. Next sponsorship or advertising on the web site could be used. A long shot maybe but contacting Apple could be an idea saying we are using most of their software and ask for a feature on the hot news page and an advert from them (of course software/hardware donations would be most welcome ;))

Keeping costs down: As i think i've mentioned, keeping the concept as near future if the sci fi route is taken will keep costs down as les effects and costumes etc. An idea to get cheaper costumes and the like would be to contact universities/students if they could produce certain clothes and art work as a project. Many students find it hard to find good projects, they don't get paid and would jump at the chance that their work could get high exposure...its just important to pik the good ones that are organised and willing to work.

ummmm, i think thats it for now...probably fogot something....

RE: Approaching Apple
This is getting a little eerie. :D I was thinking a lot of what dstorey bouncing around re: Apple. Don't know if they'd do it, but heck, I'm game to try.

RE: Funding.
I'm spending a bit of time researching this right now via distribution deals. Will keep people informed as this progresses. The story line itself should dictate the budget. However, I am keeping that in mind and doing my best to keep things rather lean. I think the bottom line has to be and always will be the story. Giving people a memorable experience that they won't soon forget.

Writing:
Yes, still putting the nose to the grindstone. The story is shaping up. I don't want to keep people on hold and risk losing the interest of the group. Timing is important here and so is the time of the people here, and am working as fast as possible. I'm going to ask for your understanding on this. With any luck I would like to give a draft in the next week or so.

After that, I will share with the group and get feedback. However, I hope to avoid turning the writing process into a "written by committee" situation. Hopefully, feedback from others and rewrites from volunteers here will help avoid this problem.

Whether it is myself, Stike or someone else who comes up with the most interesting final draft, I think we will have to lock into a particular vision at some point. And hopefully we will all agree that it is an exciting one we would like to see made.

RE: Team formation.
What dstorey listed were most of the people. I'll have to get back to you on the others. There's a couple more. But I think what matters again is the almighty story. So, after we have a working draft, I believe it may be a better time to see who wants to be a part of this idea.

TO: dstorey
I guess with your willingness to organize, you've just volunteered to be our line producer. :D

Thanks for all interest. Take care.

Gene

dstorey
May 6, 2003, 06:53 PM
teabags: sorry, changed yourself to post...Ididn't mean by putting you there that you are commited...everyone wil have to see if they like the story first, just that you mentioned a role in your post as far as I remember and the others in unconfirmed did not.

ratspg: Added cubase to the list. I guess no one has to work in anything, just what they feel comfortable with, I just listed the pro quality apps I know of.

Gene: I don't exactly know how to be a line manager but I can give it a go, just keep me on the right track ;) Take your time over the story, thats an important part not to rush, its just important that the thread doesn't die and people don't wander off.

I guess what is shown first will be rough draft so should be treated as such. If a basic first draft is shown by one or two weeks from today then thats fine as people will know when to expect and not think things have fallen through. Of course being easrly is fine too ;)

Writing: I noticed that in Stikes list of movies was bladerunner and Aikira. So maybe common ground can be found there, which will benifit collab when reviewing scrips and suggesting changes etc. Something with hints of Aikiras style intrests me though maybe without a lot of the weirdness. Sadly we can't afford anything like the red bike in that cartoon, would love a go on that.

So i guess its time just to relax and wait for the draft concept to come through. Stikes, I guess you could jot down some ideas you have...

Anyone else thats intrested would be great if you could drop a message here saying so and what you can do, even moral support would be great. Thats about all i think

David

teabgs
May 6, 2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
teabags: sorry, changed yourself to post...Ididn't mean by putting you there that you are commited...everyone wil have to see if they like the story first, just that you mentioned a role in your post as far as I remember and the others in unconfirmed did not.



hey, no biggie. I was just wonderin...

I'm pretty busy as it is, so I just wanted it to be known that when there is a real proposal, I'd like to look at it, and then I might be interested. I'm going to be really REALLY busy for the next year.

Unless I get a job when I graduate one year from now I'll have lots of time though

Stike
May 6, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
[B]Take your time over the story, thats an important part not to rush, its just important that the thread doesn't die and people don't wander off.

No problem, I think, as Gene is quite experienced too, this should be an easy thing to set up a first premise, or maybe a treatment.

I guess what is shown first will be rough draft so should be treated as such. If a basic first draft is shown by one or two weeks from today then thats fine as people will know when to expect and not think things have fallen through. Of course being easrly is fine too ;)
Of course we wil hurrrrrrry! :)

Writing: I noticed that in Stikes list of movies was bladerunner and Aikira. So maybe common ground can be found there, which will benifit collab when reviewing scrips and suggesting changes etc. Something with hints of Aikiras style intrests me though maybe without a lot of the weirdness. Sadly we can't afford anything like the red bike in that cartoon, would love a go on that.

The list I posted is far from complete, but mostly those films come to my mind first if I am asked. I like mainstream movies too, and I can really write "for the audience" not just some artistic popcorn-incompatible stuff ;)
And concerning the bike... Maya and Lightwave, anyone? :D

So i guess its time just to relax and wait for the draft concept to come through. Stikes, I guess you could jot down some ideas you have...

Of course I could note some ideas without having feedback from Gene, but if it doesn´t connect... You see, Gene has the concept, and he initiated it. He has the final word, as a director, and I have no problem accepting that. Although, I will try to add "my" ideas unnoticed ;)

Chris

howard
May 6, 2003, 07:21 PM
hey, i've been talking to Gene a bunch through emails and pms about doing the score. i personally use digital performer...the upgrade for dp4 is on the way to my door...can't wait! but yeah i have all summer to work on scoring and any other soundtrack related stuff. i definitely look forward to it.

dstorey
May 7, 2003, 04:47 AM
so your the mystery musician then? ;) ok moved you from unknown to sountrack. I think it would be quite intresting having different artists for different parts of the movie as the speed and mood dictates and possibly a few co-writen if thats possible. Of course the movie will dictate what kind of music is suitable but its intresting we have someone that does electronic and a classical trained artist too, adds an intresting mix into the movie. What kind of music do you write/perform howard, I don't think you've mentioned it? If the sci-fi concpt gets chosen I'd like parts of the soudtrack to have a rock edge, but maybe cause I'm an indie/punk/rock fan. I do think the energy of it could be good though. Sadly i only write lyrics and not music for my band and my lyrics are generally more slower ballad types.

Stike: Yeah I realise that the list isn't exhastive but I chose them two cause they seem to fit in well with at least one of the concepts Gene ulined in an earlier post so that side of your influences could be useful for this project if thats the way we go...of course the others could too if we take a whole new direction. As long as we don't write a popcorn compatible chick flick staring hugh grant and that square jaw guy from pearl harbour....that sends me into fits of illness ;) even if it would probs gross millions in the box office.

jadariv
May 7, 2003, 01:59 PM
Although I doubt i would be able to help in any real work capacity (possibly help with a shot or two for compositing). I definitely will share any knowledge of green screens, compositing and special effects that i can.

Always like to help out since i had a number of mentors who helped me out in the beginning.

And since you may do some spiritual type effects, that's right up my alley. Done that type of stuff a bunch of times.

dstorey
May 7, 2003, 02:32 PM
Hi jadariv...welcome to the tread and the project (i hope). I'm sure your experience will be a great help for the film. I'll add you to the list and I hope you have fun alot the way. Once the concept gets posted (when its ready) you'll be able to review it and see if its up your ally and want to commit to it. Any questions in the mean time can be answered here or if you pm/email gene or me. I guess that goes for everyone as it's becoming time that people should be getting to know each other if we are going to be a team on this project.

David

howard
May 8, 2003, 06:33 PM
well i can pretty much write any kind of music. orchestrations electronic and anything in between...i've been experimenting with combining both of those lately which can make really cool results. but i can score with the mood of the piece as it flows along or i could do more of a soundtrack thing with individual songs.

GeneR
May 27, 2003, 01:30 PM
Hi Everyone!

My apologies for the delay! :D

Several of the members participating on this thread are currently collaborating on the script at an off-site location and our plans are to bring the collaboration back to this thread once the story gets pounded out in a satisfactory manner.

RE: My mailbox.
My mailbox has been full and I've been cleaning it out now. (Opps! Sorry! My bad! :D) so if you've been PMing me in the past and didn't get through, a thousand, thousand apologies! :D Otherwise, you can always direct email to my address.

TO: P-Worm, Jadariv and Co.
Thanks for the volunteering your time and expertise! We can certainly use them. :D Please PM myself when you have a chance for more info.

In closing...
At this point we've got a lot of really interesting storylines floating around in the group. The enthusiasm is good, (so is the corny humor! :D) and it looks like -- slowly, but surely -- it will develop in a way that may be presentable to the community.

I'll keep people posted as they develop.
Thanks for you patience! :D

Take care,


Gene

JHackamack
Jun 16, 2003, 11:42 PM
I will be happy to donate some time editing the video, living here in California may be hard to get me the footage, unless you put it on a server digitized or something. FCP is what I use, actually FCP3, havent had a chance or the money to buy 4. Let me know.

Jacob_Hackamack@mac.com

shake
Jul 3, 2003, 10:18 AM
hi there,
i am a professional audio engineer/sound designer/mixer from toronto canada. i have access to a beautiful mixing room and huge sfx library. i have mixed many albums and short films. i would love to give your indie film some "polish" on the audio side. let me know how the progress is going!
RSVP
dave@mountaindogmusic.ca

GeneR
Jul 9, 2003, 03:18 AM
Hi Shake,

I PM'd you with some info. Don't know if you got it yet. If so, please check your user cp button. Thanks!

Gene