House passes voter ID law

[pseudobrit]

WASHINGTON - The House voted Wednesday to require Americans to show proof of citizenship in order to vote, and the Senate moved to build a 700-mile fence along the Mexican border as Republicans sharpened attacks on illegal immigration before the midterm elections.

The 228-196 House vote on a new photo ID plan and the Senate's consideration of the fence were both part of a get-tough policy on illegal immigrants that Republicans have embraced after Congress' failure to agree on broader legislation that would set a path for undocumented workers to attain citizenship.
...
Republican sponsors of the voter identification bill said it was a commonsense way to stop fraud at the polls. People need photo IDs to board planes, buy alcohol or cash checks, said Rep. Vernon Ehlers (news, bio, voting record), R-Mich., chairman of the House Administration Committee. "This is not a new concept."
...
Rep. Ike Skelton (news, bio, voting record), D-Mo., said he was initially denied a voter ID required under a Missouri state law because he doesn't have a driver's license and couldn't immediately produce a passport or birth certificate. His congressional ID card was not accepted.

A Missouri court earlier this month struck down the state law, and on Tuesday a state superior court judge in Georgia ruled that that state's law requiring a photo ID was an unconstitutional condition for voting.

The bill would require everyone to present a photo ID before voting in federal elections by 2008. By 2010 voters would have to have photo IDs that certified they were citizens. In response to criticism that this would be a burden for the poor, the bill stipulates that states must provide the identification cards free of charge to those who can't afford them.

Sounds like a poll tax to me. If this bill passes and survives judicial review, I would hope popular resistance to voting chicanes would be swift and fierce.

Deep down inside I know it's more likely to quietly cause millions to never vote. And our great republic dies a little more...

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060921/ap_on_go_co/immigration)

[CorvusCamenarum]

Sounds like a poll tax to me. If this bill passes and survives judicial review, I would hope popular resistance to voting chicanes would be swift and fierce.

Deep down inside I know it's more likely to quietly cause millions to never vote. And our great republic dies a little more...

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060921/ap_on_go_co/immigration)

How is this a tax in any form, unless you're counting the fee to get a driver's license or non-driving ID (which is minimal - $20 every 4 years in my state)? Passports are also inexpensive, and are valid for 10 years.

Social Security Cards are free, unless you bought a fake one.

[yg17]

I've always had to show my drivers license to vote....or is there some other form of ID I could use if I wanted to?

[pseudobrit]

How is this a tax in any form, unless you're counting the fee to get a driver's license or non-driving ID (which is minimal - $20 every 4 years in my state)? Passports are also inexpensive, and are valid for 10 years..

It's a tax because there's a fee required to get a photo ID. It bothers me that these IDs would not be issued universally and automatically, but on demand and for a fee. More significant are the obstacles it creates for a casual or new voter.

Passports are $97 and $67 for renewal.

I don't need ID to vote. I go to the polling place, state my name, sign the register and vote. That's how it's done Constitutionally.

[FFTT]

This is nothing more than a ploy to discourage voter turnouts by the poor, the handicapped and the elderly. In other words, the voters who typically vote against
the GOP.

They'll be having grandma turned away at the polls because even though she voted for the last 50 years, now she needs a photo I.D. with proof of citizenship.

The Republican regime knows that they are in trouble with a strong Democratic
turnout.

This is a fight for power and they are using every dirty trick in the book.

[pseudobrit]

This is a fight for power and they are using every dirty trick in the book.

I think it may work, too. To many Americans enmeshed in modern active life with all its transactions (credit card, car payments, registration, license, inspection and insurance, internet access, online banking) something as simple as presenting an ID seems not at all inconvenient.

But there are many registered voters who fall totally outside this lifestyle, and they may not* lose easy and equal access to the polls just because they're out of the loop.

*as per the U.S. Constitution

[bousozoku]

It's a tax because there's a fee required to get a photo ID. It bothers me that these IDs would not be issued universally and automatically, but on demand and for a fee. More significant are the obstacles it creates for a casual or new voter.

Passports are $97 and $67 for renewal.

I don't need ID to vote. I go to the polling place, state my name, sign the register and vote. That's how it's done Constitutionally.

So, what if you arrive and vote before you arrive and vote, since not identification is required? In the 2000 election around Orlando, we had multiple cases of people being told that they had already voted.

[Mal]

To all the nay-sayers about the cost of the ID, read the article again. States must provide Photo ID's free of charge to those unable to afford them. If enforced, this will certainly help prevent much of the fraud that occurred during the last election.

jW

[pseudobrit]

So, what if you arrive and vote before you arrive and vote, since not identification is required? In the 2000 election around Orlando, we had multiple cases of people being told that they had already voted.

That's voter fraud and it's a crime. You don't solve it by violating the Constitutional rights of every American.

[pseudobrit]

To all the nay-sayers about the cost of the ID, read the article again. States must provide Photo ID's free of charge to those unable to afford them. If enforced, this will certainly help prevent much of the fraud that occurred during the last election.

jW

So which form do you fill out to prove you can't afford them? Which line do you stand in? Is this in the DMV? How do you get there?

It would make sense to have all voters pass a literacy test, too, since you can't very well vote properly if you can't read the ballot, right?

[yg17]

To all the nay-sayers about the cost of the ID, read the article again. States must provide Photo ID's free of charge to those unable to afford them. If enforced, this will certainly help prevent much of the fraud that occurred during the last election.

jW

That's a big if. I don't see states just handing out free IDs left and right.

Even if they do give them out for free to those who cannot afford it, there will still be hurdles in place to prove you can't afford it. Who knows what they'll want as proof of income...tax forms? Tons of other paperwork?

[KingYaba]

So which form do you fill out to prove you can't afford them? Which line do you stand in? Is this in the DMV? How do you get there?

It would make sense to have all voters pass a literacy test, too, since you can't very well vote properly if you can't read the ballot, right?
Preventing voter fraud far outweighs a simple ID cost in my opinion. There were to many cases regarding voter fraud here in Texas. A majority of the cases came from a certain southern country, illegally...

Secondly, the state of Georgia wanted to do something very simliar. If you contacted the state saying you need to register, They would mail you the form to your residence. All one would do is simply fill out the form, and mail it back in the pre-paid envelope. Then an ID card would be sent out. No need to pay for the ID card, taxes covered it. No need to wait in lines, you can do it in the mail if you wanted. I suppose something very similar would be in order?

I say just give the ID card free to everyone and end this silly argument.

[bousozoku]

That's voter fraud and it's a crime. You don't solve it by violating the Constitutional rights of every American.

You're going to let it slide because you're afraid that the government is going to see that you really are who you say you are?

That's about as bad as the people who wouldn't let the admitting clerks at the hospital enter their Social Security Number even though the commonwealth demanded it.

It's not nearly as bad as the state of Floriduh using the drivers license database to get a little extra cash, is it? Talk about a lack of privacy.

[pseudobrit]

Secondly, the state of Georgia wanted to do something very simliar. If you contacted the state saying you need to register, They would mail you the form to your residence. All one would do is simply fill out the form, and mail it back in the pre-paid envelope. Then an ID card would be sent out. No need to pay for the ID card, taxes covered it. No need to wait in lines, you can do it in the mail if you wanted. I suppose something very similar would be in order? .

Did you just make that up or are you simply mistaken? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702171.html)

Voter ID Law Is Overturned
Georgia Can No Longer Charge For Access to Nov. 8 Election

The ruling allows thousands of Georgians who do not have government-issued identification, such as driver's licenses and passports, to vote in the Nov. 8 municipal elections without obtaining a special digital identification card, which costs $20 for five years. In prior elections, Georgians could use any one of 17 types of identification that show the person's name and address, including a driver's license, utility bill, bank statement or a paycheck, to gain access to a voting booth.


Under the Georgia law, residents would need to produce original birth certificates and other documents to get the new digital identification card. The cards could only be obtained at Department of Motor Vehicles offices.

But critics say that many potential voters do not have the required documents and that some could not afford the $20 processing fee for identification.

State officials promised to provide free identification to anyone who swore under oath that they were indigent. But the law provided no definition of what constituted indigence in the state of Georgia, opening the possibility for possible perjury charges, activists said.

[pseudobrit]

You're going to let it slide because you're afraid that the government is going to see that you really are who you say you are?

You've totally mischaracterized my argument. I'm not saying to let voter fraud "slide" and I'm not saying a voter should not have to identify herself at the polling place.

I'm saying you can't deal with something like, say, illegal drugs by searching everyone's house, block by block until you find them all. That's unconstitutional. Voter fraud is a crime and should be prosecuted, but not at the expense of the voting rights of the innocent.

[zimv20]

issues already mentioned aside, this is a gift to the anti-illegal immigrant right.

[bousozoku]

You've totally mischaracterized my argument. I'm not saying to let voter fraud "slide" and I'm not saying a voter should not have to identify herself at the polling place.

I'm saying you can't deal with something like, say, illegal drugs by searching everyone's house, block by block until you find them all. That's unconstitutional. Voter fraud is a crime and should be prosecuted, but not at the expense of the voting rights of the innocent.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to put that much edge on it.

I don't think that they should be searching everyone's house, either but I think that we need identification cards that have our history and allow us to do whatever we need to do without the ability of governments to tamper.

I just think it's time for the U.S.A. to grow up and join the rest of the world. The ability to identify anyone at a moment's notice would do a world of good in healthcare. People see it as an invasion of privacy but it would be so useful. Unfortunately, they would have to back it up with a thumb print to make sure.

[KingYaba]

I could have sworn Georgia residents could have voted in the mail via absentee ballots? They also would have offered that Georgia Licensing on Wheels program for those who live in rural areas. People who can't afford an ID card just have to sign an affidavit saying they are "indigent"

Where is the problems again?

[pseudobrit]

I could have sworn Georgia residents could have voted in the mail via absentee ballots? They also would have offered that Georgia Licensing on Wheels program for those who live in rural areas. People who can't afford an ID card just have to sign an affidavit saying they are "indigent"

That's not what the article says.

[Thomas Veil]

If I've gotta show proof of ID to vote, they've gotta show proof to me that the poll workers know what they're doing and that the vote isn't fixed.

[bousozoku]

If I've gotta show proof of ID to vote, they've gotta show proof to me that the poll workers know what they're doing and that the vote isn't fixed.

Intelligent workers and a government that works for us? Next, they'll be instating a feedback system to ask how we think they're doing and actually use the results to change.

[FFTT]

If I've gotta show proof of ID to vote, they've gotta show proof to me that the poll workers know what they're doing and that the vote isn't fixed.

YES!!!! ;)

I'm sure you've heard about Diebold's new disaster with the sign in logs.

Maybe that's it, they'll completely blow the election causing massive civil unrest, then Bush can declare martial law and suspend the Constitution.

http://images.cafepress.com/product/12662948_150x150_Front.JPG

[KingYaba]

http://www.georgia.gov/00/article/0,2086,4802_4961_41800330,00.html

[pseudobrit]

http://www.georgia.gov/00/article/0,2086,4802_4961_41800330,00.html

Strike three.

[Thomas Veil]

I'm certainly glad to see the era of big government is over.

[NJuul]

I see no problem, but of course I'm not an amrican.
As long as the government provide the required ID free of charge to all voters, then what is the problem of making sure that the people who vote are actually who they claim to be?

[takao]

i don't see any problems with that either ...
if i'd lose my voter card which normally gets sent in advance then i would have to show my ID document too

on the other side the US election system is so broken that nothing would surprise me

(at least it isn't like in some kanton in switzerland where you have to own a _sabre_ for voting in local elections ... i guess the cost of that is higher than 20$ ;) )

[FFTT]

It's not the cost of obtaining a photo I.D.

It's the hassle that will discourage voters from even bothering to show up at the polls.

Be honest.

How many poor, elderly and disabled people have all their citizenship records handy?
How many will make the effort to wait in line at Social Security or the DMV
to prove they are American citizens IF they can even get there?

We're talking about more than 40 million potential voters that would most likely
vote Republicans out of office if they have the chance to do so.

Those figures are enough to throw an election.

Open your eyes

[CorvusCamenarum]

How many poor, elderly and disabled people have all their citizenship records handy?
How many will make the effort to wait in line at Social Security or the DMV
to prove they are American citizens IF they can even get there?

We're talking about more than 40 million potential voters that would most likely
vote Republicans out of office if they have the chance to do so.

Those figures are enough to throw an election.

Open your eyes

Mail every adult non-felon on the Social Security rolls an application to be returned with proof of citizenship and a passport-style photo. Mail them back a voter ID card. Problem solved, provided the cost of a stamp wouldn't be considered a poll tax and the anti-national ID people wouldn't be screaming mad.

[zimv20]

Mail every adult non-felon on the Social Security rolls an application to be returned with proof of citizenship and a passport-style photo. Mail them back a voter ID card.
i reckon this whole process would be prone to abuse. if people are taken off the rolls w/o an ID card requirement, i have to assume that any barrier to voting would simply "weed out" more potential voters.

forms filled out incorrectly, photos not to spec, people moving during their application process, some data item on the form not matching what's on some computer -- all will drain the rolls. even pulling up the initial list of felon-status will be wrong (as we've seen in florida).

we need more people showing up at the polls, not fewer. i look at this effort as little more than the GOP champing at the bit to remove more dems (plus the obvious benefit of appealing to its xenophobic base).

[FFTT]

I think all of this will backfire in 2008 anyway because the Republicans are counting
on Catholic Christian Hispanics for a swing vote.

You start deporting their friends and loved one's and they're not going to
be very happy about it.

Also keep in mind that they know political corruption all too well from home.

It's the have's against the have not's

IF..... and that's a huge IF.... these elections are fair and accurate, I think the
Republicans are in for a rude awakening.

[KingYaba]

Strike three.
Huh? I showed you the web-page of the Georgia on Wheels thing because I got the impression that you didn't believe it. Or you don't want to believe it..

[pseudobrit]

Huh? I showed you the web-page of the Georgia on Wheels thing because I got the impression that you didn't believe it. Or you don't want to believe it..

No, it's just all the other stuff you talked about that wasn't true, like mailing something in and getting a free ID. It's pretty clear the Georgia system placed an undue burden on the voter. The Georgia State Superior Court says so too.

[solvs]

I don't know. I'm thinking the people who are too lazy to go get a free or cheap photo ID are the least likely to go out and vote. If this helps against fraud, it's ok I guess as long as they make it easy for those who want to vote to be able to actually vote.

If they don't, then yeah, I get where there could be a problem.