War price on U.S. lives equal to 9/11

[zimv20]

AP (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/911_times_two;_ylt=Ahc7Fu8_9pF865VVB00haj2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)


WASHINGTON - Now the death toll is 9/11 times two. U.S. military deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan now match those of the most devastating terrorist attack in America's history, the trigger for what came next. Add casualties from chasing terrorists elsewhere in the world, and the total has passed the Sept. 11 figure.

The latest milestone for a country at war comes without commemoration. It also may well come without the precision of knowing who is the 2,973rd man or woman of arms to die in conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan, or just when it happens. The terrorist attacks killed 2,973 victims in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

(more)

when one digs oneself into a hole, the only way to get out is to dig faster.

right?

[Scarlet Fever]

who are the terrorists now...

[clevin]

50,000 iraqis died (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/)
or 100,000 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm)
3,000 dead last month, 100 per day.

[hcuar]

who are the terrorists now...

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?

I think you need to rethink calling the US terrorists. The US at least attempts to minimize the lateral casualties. The US is a formal military force. Al-Qaeda / and the insurgents are not.

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?

[clevin]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?
How many lives were lost by invading iraq?

[Scarlet Fever]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?

I think you need to rethink calling the US terrorists. The US at least attempts to minimize the lateral casualties. The US is a formal military force. Al-Qaeda / and the insurgents are not.

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?
i know the deaths of innocent Americans isn't a good thing. I felt it when the planes hit the towers. But just because innocent Americans died doesn't give the Bush Administration the right to kill innocent Iraqis or Afghanis. Not all Iraqis and Afghanis are terrorists.

[adroit]

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?

Nope. That's why we're not rolling over for Bush.

[solvs]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?
Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are still out there. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam, though clearly a bad guy, isn't Hitler. How many lives would we had saved had we planned better and focused more on places like Afghanistan where the real terrorists are? The world is not safer now, we've made things worse. No one is saying we shouldn't go after terrorists. Just that some of us are having a problem with how it's being done.

You know, badly.

[mactastic]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?
Even if we saved three 9/11's worth of American lives by killing / capturing members of al-Qaeda, that's still only 1/10 of some estimates of how many innocent Iraqis who've been killed.

So unless you're arguing that American lives are worth more than Iraqi lives, I think you'd have to agree that Iraq has would up on the short end of that stick.

And what did Iraq have to do with 9/11 again?

[princealfie]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?

I think you need to rethink calling the US terrorists. The US at least attempts to minimize the lateral casualties. The US is a formal military force. Al-Qaeda / and the insurgents are not.

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?

But aren't we living in the Fourth Reich? It's the land of Paris Hilton who is our Eva Braun.

[FFTT]

Get this straight once and for all.

Saddam did not present any imminent threat to U.S. soil.

He was a threat to OPEC

The awful nasty truth is that we needed to insure that nothing stopped the
flow of oil from the Middle East.

The trade embargoes and U.N. inspections had crippled his ability to do much
of anything harmful to us or anyone else.

But he did have the power to undermine OPEC's pricing policies.

All of this horrible waste of human life stems from greed and deception to
justify profiteering from the business of war.

These billionaire war mongers send brave young men and women into harms way
for profit.

They pretend to value human life down to the level of a human cell to gain votes
but truly have no concern for you or me or anyone else when it come to money.

[Desertrat]

FFTT, stipulate that you are correct: If Saddam had somehow messed up the flow of oil to the west and to Japan and the rest of Asia, what would happen to our society? To all western and Asian societies?

Those profiteers with their multi-billion dollar investments make it possible for you to have a computer, aside from easy transportation.

I'm not saying that awl bidness honchos are Good Guys, but a by-product of their greed is a comfy living for millions and millions of people who have nothing to do with that business.

I'm of the Korean war generation. We lost some 53,000 guys in three years. (Had it gone on another year, I'd have been in combat, not occupation duty.) From the standpoint of those in our military, things have gotten a helluva lot better. That doesn't give moral credence to the war, but it certainly makes it less painful for the guys who are in it.

'Rat

[takao]

I'm of the Korean war generation. We lost some 53,000 guys in three years. (Had it gone on another year, I'd have been in combat, not occupation duty.) From the standpoint of those in our military, things have gotten a helluva lot better. That doesn't give moral credence to the war, but it certainly makes it less painful for the guys who are in it.

well the clear superiority of technology,training and amount of troops in terms of navy, air force and (most of the time) ground forces compared to the countries attacked since korea helps as well ;)

[FFTT]

Saddam had the power to stop the flow of oil at his will or flood the market
with underpriced oil.

Of course all of this is has been a tremendous benefit to Americans who work
in some manner for the military industrial complex and security firms, but
as you mentioned, where is the moral high ground.

We can delude ourselves thinking that all of this is meant to spread freedom and democracy, providing the people of Iraq accept our definition of democracy.

No one questions the honor, commitment or bravery of our men and women
in uniform, but sadly, they are being used by those who profit from all this bloodshed.

Yes all of us are shameless oil gluttons, but our needs would have been served
better with diplomacy.

The entire world supported our effort to go after OBL and his small handful
of criminals, but we had no business going into Iraq the way we did.

For the most part, American citizens were safe to travel anywhere on the globe
without worry.

Now we have absolutely guaranteed generations of reprisals against American citizens and their interests.

We have created the necessary evil to justify decades of military industrial spending.

One day, the children of those who perished in this senseless bloodbath
will grow up and they will remember what happened to them, their friends
and their families.

Are we safer now?

[Glen Quagmire]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?

I think you need to rethink calling the US terrorists. The US at least attempts to minimize the lateral casualties. The US is a formal military force. Al-Qaeda / and the insurgents are not.

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?

You're comparing Hitler to Al Qaeda? Grasping for straws, are we?

I am sure that the families and friends of the brave men and women killed in the war on terror think their losses are well worth bearing. Just think how much secure we all are, thanks to President Bush and his war.

[pseudobrit]

How many lives were saved by killing / capturing members of Al-Qaeda?

I think you need to rethink calling the US terrorists. The US at least attempts to minimize the lateral casualties. The US is a formal military force. Al-Qaeda / and the insurgents are not.

Would you have rolled over for Hitler?

Were you a German in the 30s you might have. Had to protect the fatherland against that Polish invasion, natch.

[FFTT]

My mother and her family all went through Hitler's rise and fall and
by the time they had figured out what was really going on, he was too powerful.

[Ugg]

I'm of the Korean war generation. We lost some 53,000 guys in three years. (Had it gone on another year, I'd have been in combat, not occupation duty.) From the standpoint of those in our military, things have gotten a helluva lot better. That doesn't give moral credence to the war, but it certainly makes it less painful for the guys who are in it.

'Rat

What was the birthrate when you were born 'Rat? How many of the guys you went through basic with had no siblings? Sure, technology has changed things a lot but the reality that was Vietnam, made it clear that unlimited deaths during wartime was simply not acceptable.

[mactastic]

FFTT, stipulate that you are correct: If Saddam had somehow messed up the flow of oil to the west and to Japan and the rest of Asia, what would happen to our society? To all western and Asian societies?
You mean what would happen if Iraqi oil output fell to less than half it's prewar production levels?

I dunno -- let's find out, shall we?