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AlphaTech
Apr 9, 2003, 10:30 AM
Last night, I was on the way back to get my own vehicle after going to a wake (had car pooled since I had never been to where the wake was held). Going down the highway in moderate traffic when four (maybe five) little tuner cars came zipping up and weaving around traffic. It looked like they were racing, and came dangerously close to causing a few accidents in the processes. Later, when turning off the highway to get to my own vehicle, all of the tuner cars were pulled over by a highway patrol car, with all the drivers standing around and another vehicle (not one of the tuners) looked like it had been in an accident.

My question for the masses... What is your OPINION of these types of cars and those that drive them? Also, how stupid does their engine sound? Having a little 4 banger with a loud exhaust just sounds moronic. It [essentially] sounds like a model airplane, not a car. A better sound would come from a V6 or V8, a 4 banger just can't have a good audio quality, no matter what kind of exhaust system they install.

Personally, I believe that they are the reason insurance rates are as high as they are. I also think that they are several brain cells short of a pair. :eek: They rank right up there with the people who have 200watt+ stereo systems in their cars which you can hear inside your vehicle, even when a hundred (or more) yards away.

Feel free to rant and rave all you want. I'd like to hear from both sides of this.

howard
Apr 9, 2003, 10:55 AM
what classifies a tuner car?...can i get a brand name or a picture?

thanks

alex_ant
Apr 9, 2003, 10:59 AM
edited...

U already had one post reported today. This was completed uncalled for. Please restrict yourself from racial/ethical slurs. :rolleyes:

AlphaTech
Apr 9, 2003, 11:01 AM
Tuner cars are typically Japanese cars that the owners have modified to try to get more speed out of them. That ranges from FIPK (high performance air intake systems), lowering, other engine modifications (including nitros) and more. The ones that are lowered are usually made too low to be safe under normal driving conditions. They bottom out when going over speed bumps, or into a driveway that is raised above the level of the road (as many are these days, where the roads have places for rain to run down). You can [usually] tell these cars by their sound, a very nasal sound at that.

They are nothing like the muscle cars of the past, or present, which actually sound good (nothing beats a throaty v8, except a v10).

That help any?

Roger1
Apr 9, 2003, 11:05 AM
A tuner car is usually a Honda Accord, Nissan, etc, that has a large aftermarket spoiler on the back, sometimes has performance stickers all over it, fat tires (sometime sticking out of all four fenders) and a VERY LARGE tail pipe.

I found a link. I believe these cars are also called "rice mobiles" and the people who drive them are labelled "posers".
http://www.anti-rice.com/galleries.html

edit: Here is another link: http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/viewride.php?entryID=579

howard
Apr 9, 2003, 11:10 AM
OOOHHH ok, now i know exactly what they are. and yes i also very much hate them. They have those huge spoilers and huge sides...and the really huge bass music systems, that when they turn up all the cheap plastic that the spoilers and sides are made from shakes and rattles. uhh..theres an ugly one parked outside this place that i walk past everyday i want to kick it.

strider42
Apr 9, 2003, 11:13 AM
Well, there are a lot of relaly cool little cars you can get nowadays. The subaru WRX for instance is a 225 horsepower 4 banger, and the STI version will put out 300 horsepower. It will out accelerate most BMW's and other performance car. Maybe thats a different category though, as its really more in the line of a cheaper performance car, rather than a tuner as you don't need to make any mods to make it a fast ass car. Same goes for the soon coming Mitsu Lancer evo and a host of other little cars out there that are high horspower 4 cylinder cars. Sure they don't sound quite as nice as BMW straight 6, but its a different market and cost 15k less.

Whats stupid is people who do things that are only cosmetic: coffee can style exhaust pipes that make it loud and obnoxious, but since they didn't change anything else about the exhaust, its not relaly helping them. Or these giant wings they put on cars that have absolutely no effect cause they'll never get the car going fast enough to make a different. Body kits that are cheap and badly painted and do nothing for aerodynamics.

All that said, there are some fun things you can do with a lot of these cars with forced induction, etc.

The problem isn't really the cars, its the few idiots out there who are just dangerous because they act like idiots on the road, race in inappropriate places, and just plain don't really know how to drive.

I might point out that such idiots exist in all sorts of market segments: highschool kids with big trucks, american muscle car people. Its got nothing to do with tuner cars, its got to do with idiot drivers.

howard
Apr 9, 2003, 11:17 AM
see i like the subaru wrx a lot, but i never thought of those as on of these "tuner cars" unless you did modify it beyond belief. i see the wrx as a rally car, which the tuner cars are definitely not!

JesseJames
Apr 9, 2003, 11:23 AM
Hey AlphaTech I agree. I can appreciate the technology that's in the Japanese cars but I'm from the old school too. Nothing like a big V8. These young kids these days have no respect for the big displacement engines of yester-year.
I think all this started in California--where most trends start I guess.
I'm salivating at the new Pontiac GTO that's about to come out soon. I'd like to get one.
I use to have an IROC Z28 Camaro but I got rid of it because it was plagued with so many problems. Also, it got stolen. Twice. :rolleyes:
I think towns should have a drag strip where these kids can take their cars and race them without risking the lives of the general public. They race at their own risk in that environment.

Young gearheads and souped up cars are never going to go away so I think we should let them risk their own necks in a place away from the public.
That's how I feel.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 11:29 AM
The cars aren't really to my taste.... alittle OTT and IMHO dubiously styled, phat alloys I can understand, and subtle body tweeks.... but alot of them just go over the top, and look alittle hmmmmm tacky! But each to their own, and alot of these cars (the good ones that is) you can tell that the owner has put alot of time, effort and not to mention a ton of cash into creating them!!

As for the drivers... well I hate to tarnish everyone with the same brush.... not all of them are of the mindless "let's max it" mentality... some just cruise, showing off their creations! and respect for that! Others drive like t*ts, behave like t*ts..... nuff said I think!!

As for 4 cylinder engines... some of the sounds that emit from our local MacDonalds on a Sunday night are funny as ******! and a 100 exhaust box really doesn't improve the sound of the engine, particularly when the engine is a stock 1.6 that needs to be redlined all of the time to keep with the flow of the traffic!!

That said, some 4 cylinders whilst obviously not been as sonically satisfying as a solid V8 or even better a V12, can totally demolish almost any car on a demanding, twisty drivers road.... I talk of (and evoluzione knows what's coming next, heh heh) cars such as the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8... one of the fastest and most fun out of the box A to B cars on the planet.... and one of the safest too thanks to 4WD, and YAW control!

But I have to admit the film 'Bullitt' wouldn't have been quite the same had McQueen driven a 4 cylinder pocket rocket!! :p :p :p

bombensington
Apr 9, 2003, 11:32 AM
i especially love it when these types of cars have the WRONG stickers on them (stickers that purport the car to be a higher model than it really is) or just put ugly, random stickers on the car thinking it will make the car go faster or something...

there's a couple of examples on this page (http://www.riceboypage.com/)...pretty funny stuff.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by howard
see i like the subaru wrx a lot, but i never thought of those as on of these "tuner cars" unless you did modify it beyond belief. i see the wrx as a rally car, which the tuner cars are definitely not!

Subaru's Impreza and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions (Lancia Integrale, Ford RS 200, Metro 6R4 before them) are more 'Homologation Cars' as opposed to tuner cars... and you know that these puppies have the development dollars into them to make them into 'Pukka' handling machines, that are pretty muchthe fastest things on 4 wheels on proper roads! Something spending a few quid down the local 'Max Power' shop simply isn't going to give you....

That said you can certainly tune the Subaru and Mitsubishi, in one of the current Uk auto mags, there's a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7 with some 700BHP, with 60 coming up in 2.9 seconds and the ton in 6.....

Wicked!!

Now, where's evoluzione??

AlphaTech
Apr 9, 2003, 11:42 AM
I had thought of making some changes to my own truck (2002 Ranger, 4L v6) to increase the performance and/or fuel efficiency. Essentially, a K&N air filter and dual exhaust system. Both of those items increase the air flow in and out of the engine. The exhaust system would make my large v6 sound like a small block v8 (such as a 302 :D). I put the project on hold, until I have the funds to do both items at the same time. The air filter is about $50 but the exhaust system will run about $300-$400 depending on how I have them run the pipes. I have additional research to do before going with either item, since I want to be 100% certain that I won't loose any torque since I will be doing some towing in the future. I like the power I have now with the truck, it more then gets out of it's own way, merges into highway traffic easily and generally rocks. I've done some upgrades to the body of the truck in the form of a bug guard, vent shades (so that I can open the windows a little even when it's raining) as well as some bed protection items. Diamond plate on a black truck just looks sweet. :D BTW, the diamond plate IS fully functional as well as cosmetic. The bed rails/protectors prevent scratches when loading up the bed. I also went with a single, full sized diamond plate tailgate protector. With my bed extender (to give me 1-1/2' more bed length) the truck is MORE functional then before.

What I have done so far, and even with the two other additional modifications will NOT make it a tuner vehicle.

That being said, lowering a truck [to me] is moronic. Just like having a 4x2 truck where you get snow is just as stupid. This winter alone, I have used the 4x4 function more then a few times (typically at least once every snow storm, sometimes more). Ground clearance with trucks is a very useful feature. It's also nice to be able to see over the lowered cars in front of you.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by bombensington
i especially love it when these types of cars have the WRONG stickers on them (stickers that purport the car to be a higher model than it really is) or just put ugly, random stickers on the car thinking it will make the car go faster or something...

there's a couple of examples on this page (http://www.riceboypage.com/)...pretty funny stuff.

:p :p :p I used to know someone who worked in a Sign Shop that also did vinyl decals, she was telling me about all the boy racers coming in wanting 'Turbo' decals cut.... probably to stick on the boot of their Metros.... (Small, slow, rusty brit car) :rolleyes: :p :p

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Just like having a 4x2 truck where you get snow is just as stupid. This winter alone, I have used the 4x4 function more then a few times (typically at least once every snow storm, sometimes more). Ground clearance with trucks is a very useful feature. It's also nice to be able to see over the lowered cars in front of you.

So does your truck have selectable 4x4?

eyelikeart
Apr 9, 2003, 11:58 AM
I hate them...period.

They sounds like sonic farts more than sports cars. :rolleyes:

Good story though. A couple weeks ago I was driving home from dinner and pulled up on the side of some kid in his Civic. It had clear tail lights and all this crap all over it. Anyway, light turns green and we both just drive on to the stop sign ahead. All of a sudden I got a bug up my ass.

So I look over at him and we both take off. We're about neck & neck until I hit 6200 rpm, then I walked away from him. I finally backed off once I exited 2nd gear at 60mph, he was about 3 carlengths behind me. :D

Not that it's any better, but I do love my Matrix. It is stock, though, but still pretty damned fast for a 4cyl. And it doesn't sound like a fart, thank god! ;)

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by eyelikeart

They sounds like sonic farts more than sports cars. :rolleyes:


:p :p :p classic.... ;)

Most Japanese performance cars look better standard.... just better to spend the $ under the hood!! ;)

:eek: :eek: I speak yankee!! :p

I meant bonnet.... heh heh!

AlphaTech
Apr 9, 2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
So does your truck have selectable 4x4?

Yep, switch on the fly to 4x4 High... To engage 4x4 Low, I have to put it into N, but that's no biggie, since when I need that kind of power I'm typically stopped anyway and the rear wheels can't get a grip where they are (like in wet mud with nothing solid under them). I can use 4x4 High for almost everything, I just like to use the Low version once in a while. :D

Also, with the amount of torque that my truck has, I can easily spin my tires from a stop. It may have [only] 207hp, but it has gobs of torque which IS very important for trucks.

ejb190
Apr 9, 2003, 12:11 PM
Looking at that web page reminded me of the time I saw a white Geo Metro with a "Police Interceptor" badge on it...

Mr. Anderson
Apr 9, 2003, 12:15 PM
They're a pain - and I've seen the 'races' on the interstates. Glad to see some of them were actually caught.

I've also seen courses where they go to race against the clock for the best times (only seen one actual race by accident, I don't do this myself or have any desire).

But the modified exhausts are truly silly and I'd have to agree with eye on this one.

D :D

crazytom
Apr 9, 2003, 12:16 PM
I think this is funny:

Moxiemike
Apr 9, 2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
I hate them...period.

They sounds like sonic farts more than sports cars. :rolleyes:

Good story though. A couple weeks ago I was driving home from dinner and pulled up on the side of some kid in his Civic. It had clear tail lights and all this crap all over it. Anyway, light turns green and we both just drive on to the stop sign ahead. All of a sudden I got a bug up my ass.

So I look over at him and we both take off. We're about neck & neck until I hit 6200 rpm, then I walked away from him. I finally backed off once I exited 2nd gear at 60mph, he was about 3 carlengths behind me. :D

Not that it's any better, but I do love my Matrix. It is stock, though, but still pretty damned fast for a 4cyl. And it doesn't sound like a fart, thank god! ;)

I swear those kids don't know how to drive a manual... or if they do, their mods make it so they can air out the engine. I constantly blow them away and my jetta is completely stock 4cyl.

I just know how to drive... went to rally school and whatnot.

This page is ALWAYS a fave:

http://www.beaterz.com/

gotta love the letters and stuff

iJon
Apr 9, 2003, 02:30 PM
i think they are awesome, i have many friends who have them. my friend just got his bmw for his 16th birthday and has modified the s*** out of it. still not as good as his dads 911 though.

iJon

evildead
Apr 9, 2003, 02:34 PM
... haven seen you in a while.

My personal opinion is... they are stupid. But ... if they find a hoby.. they can do what ever they want. They do sound stupid and they look prety silly some times. My favoret is the 90lb rear wing on a front wheel drive car. The wing will only start to work after 120mph or so and it will do nothing for a front wheel drive car. It just adds weight to the car, decreases stability, decreases handeling, increases wind resistance, and ... looks stupid.

My main problem with them is that they think they are race car drivers. They tune it up so they can squez a little more HP out of the little motor and get some new tires but that does not mean you have a Porsha Turbo! And no matter what you do to your Civic si... it will not drive like a Porsha. There is a very dangerours hill near my place that the "racer kids" often die on. They think they know what they are doing, they think there low-profile tires can take them to indi, and they think they can drive..... so they die. Im all for natrual selection... but man, I just dont want one of those morons to take me out with them

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Apr 9, 2003, 03:04 PM
My reply to this situation is....

Some cars look good and sound good while other s are just plain crap.

The cars don't bother me or even the people that drive them. They start to bother me though when they become dangerous and start to cause hazards that could kill people.

Rower_CPU
Apr 9, 2003, 03:14 PM
Off-topic posts removed.

Racial slurs will not be tolerated on this forum.

If there are any more reports on this thread it will be closed.

eyelikeart
Apr 9, 2003, 03:29 PM
ah...rower...u got it? ;)

Nipsy
Apr 9, 2003, 03:31 PM
It always confuses me when someone puts 100k worth of parts ino a 20k car in order to build a car worth 40k, instead of dropping 120k on the Porsche Turbo, year old Ferrari, etc.

iJon
Apr 9, 2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Nipsy
It always confuses me when someone puts 100k worth of parts ino a 20k car in order to build a car worth 40k, instead of dropping 120k on the Porsche Turbo, year old Ferrari, etc.
well my friend has a VERY souped up RX7. it has about 400hp, almost as fast as his dad's porsche 911 turbo with has i think 450, cant remember. i need to find out how much he put into it though. but i doubt it equaled out to be the same price as the porsche, ill find out though.

iJon

Nipsy
Apr 9, 2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by iJon
well my friend has a VERY souped up RX7. it has about 400hp, almost as fast as his dad's porsche 911 turbo with has i think 450, cant remember. i need to find out how much he put into it though. but i doubt it equaled out to be the same price as the porsche, ill find out though.

iJon

Tuning an RX7 is a very different pursit to tuning a Civic.

The RX7 is a sports car. The Civic is an economy car.

iJon
Apr 9, 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Nipsy
Tuning an RX7 is a very different pursit to tuning a Civic.

The RX7 is a sports car. The Civic is an economy car.
ah i see, i dont know much about cars, all i know about mine is that is red and made by acura.

iJon

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Nipsy
It always confuses me when someone puts 100k worth of parts ino a 20k car in order to build a car worth 40k, instead of dropping 120k on the Porsche Turbo, year old Ferrari, etc.

this is very true.... the money some of these people put into their cars will buy them a very, very nice sportscar.... be it a Porsche or Ferrari or if you want to go icognito, an Audi RS6 Avant.... V8 Twin Turbo 4WD putting out 440BHP+.....

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by iJon
well my friend has a VERY souped up RX7. it has about 400hp, almost as fast as his dad's porsche 911 turbo with has i think 450, cant remember. i need to find out how much he put into it though. but i doubt it equaled out to be the same price as the porsche, ill find out though.

iJon

But which is the daddy?? ;)

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 04:18 PM
ppl use their exhaust and bling-bling to get attention that they never got earlier in their life. these ppl are constantly trying to get ppl to look at themselves/and or their car. but ppl do give them attention and it causes them to do it all the more.

the bigger problem in my neighborhood are kids with white trash trucks and dirt motorcycles. but it's all the same-- noise for looks. some ppl just have problems.

i bet i'm one of the only kids around with a buick.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
i'm one of the only kids around with a buick.

So do Buick's rock then??? :confused:

Or do they hang with Oldsmobile??

Mr. Anderson
Apr 9, 2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
So do Buick's rock then??? :confused:

Or do they hang with Oldsmobile??

ah, good question and best answered by a quote from the movie Fletch

"I noticed his late model Oldsmobuick parked outside....."

D :D

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
So do Buick's rock then??? :confused:that wasn't really my point. i see everyone here in SD driving fords or japanese products...like nobody knows that GM still exists.

i just think there's a trend to buy cars that are not American...but i shouldn't be suprised since that seems to reflect popular opinion in this country.

jelloshotsrule
Apr 9, 2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
ppl use their exhaust and bling-bling to get attention that they never got earlier in their life. these ppl are constantly trying to get ppl to look at themselves/and or their car. but ppl do give them attention and it causes them to do it all the more.

the bigger problem in my neighborhood are kids with white trash trucks and dirt motorcycles. but it's all the same-- noise for looks. some ppl just have problems.

i bet i'm one of the only kids around with a buick.

first off... damn, you are the king of hardasses

secondly, it's great how tiger woods is the buick or oldsmobile (i forget which) spokesperson now... since both of those brands are for people who are half in the grave. i mean, "OLDsmobile"? how about "FOGEsmobile"

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
ah, good question and best answered by a quote from the movie Fletch

"I noticed his late model Oldsmobuick parked outside....."

D :D

So they're the coolest thing with 4 wheels then.... :p

And to think I was knocking about in an Olds for 2 weeks in the U.S. thinking I was the daddy!! :rolleyes: :D :p

jelloshotsrule
Apr 9, 2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
And to think I was knocking about in an Olds for 2 weeks in the U.S. thinking I was the daddy!! :rolleyes: :D :p

people who drive "olds"es ARE daddies... usually grandaddies...

AlphaTech
Apr 9, 2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
i just think there's a trend to buy cars that are not American...but i shouldn't be suprised since that seems to reflect popular opinion in this country.

The only vehicles I will buy, at least at this stage in my life, are US branded. Right now, that means Ford and Harley-Davidson... I hope to purchase either a 2003 or 2004 F150 Harley-Davidson truck... Those are damned sweet. :D

[mod edit]

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i mean, "OLDsmobile"? how about "FOGEsmobile" GM already phased out the Olds line.

i'm sorry my car's not cool enough :rolleyes: there's really better things to worry about in life than looks.

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
mod edit at least ppl's opinions don't get edited in real life. imagine how quick that would get old.

jelloshotsrule
Apr 9, 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
GM already phased out the Olds line.

i'm sorry my car's not cool enough :rolleyes: there's really better things to worry about in life than looks.

dude, and that's exactly why you're such a hardass!

who gives a **** how you look??!? you don't! kick their ass if they disagree

i didn't know olds was out.... too too bad.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
that wasn't really my point. i see everyone here in SD driving fords or japanese products...like nobody knows that GM still exists.

i just think there's a trend to buy cars that are not American...but i shouldn't be suprised since that seems to reflect popular opinion in this country.

Oh....

When I was out in the U.S. with a rental, I originally wanted a Mustang convertible (as you do in San-Francisco not knowing the summer weather :rolleyes: ) but they didn't have any, so they offered me an olds Intrigue... V6... 220BHP, cruise the works... storming in a straight line.... hated corners though... I thought I was going to wallow off the black stuff at every corner!! supa soft suspension not good for corners!! :p

Didn't realise Buick were still going..... so what Buick you drivin'?

Personally American cars are cool.... something about them.... especially the 50's and 60's cars... and I suppose some of the 70's ones too! always fancied trying those column shift ones... they look pretty cool.... :)

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Apr 9, 2003, 04:58 PM
I don't think they (the kids tuning out their cars) are concerned about the money aspect. I know some that do it because they like to tune them up. I do also know some that do it for the looks but from what I've seen from all of them, they just like to supe them up and see how fast they can make them go.

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
storming in a straight line.... hated corners though... I thought I was going to wallow off the black stuff at every corner!! supa soft suspension not good for corners!! :p

Didn't realise Buick were still going..... so what Buick you drivin'?1990 Buick Century 3.3L port injected. funny how these cars gets pegged as old and slow, because old ppl drive them. i couldn't agree more with the suspension observation you made.

this car is much better than my 1990 dodge spirit...yuck. i'm never buying chrysler again. funny how many fords were in the junkyard when i went there.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
people who drive "olds"es ARE daddies... usually grandaddies...

Well they ran out of Mustangs.... :rolleyes: :eek: :p :p

So be warned... fly to San-Francisco.... and they might not have any Mustangs waiting for ya!!! :( :p

I was cruising the streets of SF though... Underworld pumping those speakers! I reckon I blasted Old's image through the roof!!

SF August 2000, White Olds on Nevada plates, with some Underworld pumping! That was me!! heh heh :p

I still wanted that Mustang though!! :(

As for the Buicks... never driven one... but I like the name.... They rock!! ;)

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
1990 Buick Century 3.3L port injected. funny how these cars gets pegged as old and slow, because old ppl drive them. i couldn't agree more with the suspension observation you made.

this car is much better than my 1990 dodge spirit...yuck. i'm never buying chrysler again. funny how many fords were in the junkyard when i went there.

3.3L slow.... :confused: You kidding right?? old people have iffy right feet....

I'm sure with 3.3L under that lead right foot that it motors when you want it too... ;) At least you've got a car no matter what it is... I have to succumb to the tube every morning!! Now that's the slowest thing on 86 wheels!!

As for the suspension.... we're used to bone crunching stiffness here in euro-world.... just takes alittle getting used to having a car that irons out every bump but makes every corner lethal!! :)

Just out of interest are Plymouth still going?? (One of the other American Car companies I've heard of!!)

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
Yep, switch on the fly to 4x4 High... To engage 4x4 Low, I have to put it into N, but that's no biggie, since when I need that kind of power I'm typically stopped anyway and the rear wheels can't get a grip where they are (like in wet mud with nothing solid under them). I can use 4x4 High for almost everything, I just like to use the Low version once in a while. :D

Also, with the amount of torque that my truck has, I can easily spin my tires from a stop. It may have [only] 207hp, but it has gobs of torque which IS very important for trucks.

Hey cool.... I thought that most of the truck, pick up things were either 2 wheel drive or 4x4 , didn't realise that they had selectors too.... So it how does that work then? is it like 2 gearboxes type things.... or does it just lock into the high/low ratios? or does it work at the differential??

207BHP in a pick up is quite abit inni't? I didn't think they were that heavy, so they must smoke when you flex that right foot!!

So I take it, with the U.S. custom-life style that hotting up your V6 to rival a V8 isn't that difficult?? Or is it better to anb a Ford V8 from one of their bigger truck, pick-up things??

So you have no plans for a F350 (think that's what they are!) then?? or they just plain too big?

MacFan25
Apr 9, 2003, 05:34 PM
I think that "tuner cars" are pretty dumb, too. It seems like those people who have those kinds of cars a lot of times put too much money in to them. And usually, IMO those big spoilers that are put on are ugly. They seem like a waste of money to me. I don't know why they just don't put on a smaller one. It would look a lot better.

strider42
Apr 9, 2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
that wasn't really my point. i see everyone here in SD driving fords or japanese products...like nobody knows that GM still exists.

i just think there's a trend to buy cars that are not American...but i shouldn't be suprised since that seems to reflect popular opinion in this country.

If you want to buy american, you should buy toyota, bmw and other "foreign" cars, since their factories are in the US. NUMMI, where toyota builds their small trucks, is in fremont, ca, BMW's factory is in tenesee (I believe). My point is that there is no "american" or "foreign" brands really, just what cars are better. And when you look across the spectrum of products, europeans and japanese cars perform better, are built better, are cleaner and often times are cheaper too. Europeans also have better styling (this retro crap american car makers are trying to pull off has got to go away)

But don't worry, people still know GM exists, its still the biggest automaker in the world. Ford is safe in second place. Third place however may eventually fall to toyota. So long as trucks are the most popular vehicles, the so called "american" car companies will remain on top.

MacFan25
Apr 9, 2003, 05:42 PM
Yeah, I have always thought that most foreign cars hold up better than American cars. This isn't always the case, but many times it seems it is.

I still see a lot of 1980's Hondas and Toyotas out on the road.

cubist
Apr 9, 2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
Just out of interest are Plymouth still going?? (One of the other American Car companies I've heard of!!)

Plymouth's gone too. The Voyager and Prowler are now Chrysler models. The rest were just rebadged clones anyway. (Shall we also have the obligatory mention of the Dodge Viper here? It has a somewhat noticable exhaust note.)

strider42
Apr 9, 2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25
Yeah, I have always thought that most foreign cars hold up better than American cars. This isn't always the case, but many times it seems it is.

I still see a lot of 1980's Hondas and Toyotas out on the road.

if you look at reliability stats, japanese cars almost universally hold up better than american cars.

The same is not necessarily true of europeans, several of whihc have had a number of reliability problems in the last few years, but I still feel they are better engineered.

iGav
Apr 9, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by cubist
Plymouth's gone too.

So like what U.S. car companies are still going??

I'll name what I know....

Ford
General motors
Plymouth (defunct)
Oldsmobile (defunct)
Buick
Mercury
Chrysler
Dodge
Pontiac

Any others???

MacFan25
Apr 9, 2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by iGAV

Any others???
Jeep. It is owned by diamler-chrysler.

And as you may or may not know, General motors owns: chevy, gmc, buick, oldsmobile, pontiac, and cadillac.

iJon
Apr 9, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25
Jeep. It is owned by diamler-chrysler.

And as you may or may not know, General motors owns: chevy, gmc, buick, oldsmobile, pontiac, and cadillac.
hummer too.

iJon

amnesiac1984
Apr 9, 2003, 07:17 PM
I think the best story concerning tuner cars that I've heard comes from a friend of mine who owns a yellow version of the car below.

Its an Ultima GTR, he had it custom built out of carbon fibre instead of glass fibre and it has roughly 500hp.

When it was new, to look after the engine he would have to switch it off instead of idling it at traffic. He used to pull up at traffic lights alongside a Golf GTI with ridiculous alloys and a wing with music pumping out. THe tunerboy would look over at this dinky little car not making any noise, it looks very much like a cheapy kit car with a tiny engine that people over 50 buy as a midlife crisis. This guy has gray hair so naturally this is the conclusion the tuner-boy draws. The tuner boy would sit there revving his engine to show off as they do. Then when the lights start to change, my friend would press the big red button on the centre of the carbon fibre dashboard and his 500hp v8 or some high c number would roar to life and he'd take of going 0-60 in somethin glike 4-5 seconds or maybe faster, i don't claim to know anything about cars. ANyway what i would have given to see the looks on the tunerboys face.
http://homepage.mac.com/idioteque/windtunnel.jpg
http://www.ultimacars.com

DakotaGuy
Apr 9, 2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
So like what U.S. car companies are still going??

I'll name what I know....

Ford
General motors
Plymouth (defunct)
Oldsmobile (defunct)
Buick
Mercury
Chrysler
Dodge
Pontiac

Any others???

You forgot Jeep, it is owned by Chrysler, which is actually owned by the Germans now, but Jeep is as American as anything on the road.

I own a 2002 Mercury Mountaineer All Wheel Drive, 4.0V6 and I love it! If I had to do it over and could of taken the worse MPG I would have bought the V8 model.

When Chrysler axed Plymouth and GM axed Olds, many thought Mercury would be next. Since Bill Ford took over Ford Mo. Co. looks like he put life back into Mercury with the new 310HP Marauder, the new Mountaineer and there is also a new Monterey van, Montego AWD sports sedan coming and Mariner small SUV. From all the pictures I see they will all be styled with brushed metal and edgy lines, look nice! Should be fun to see what they will do to the line to bring it up to date.

King Cobra
Apr 9, 2003, 08:14 PM
>I think the best story concerning tuner cars that I've heard comes from a friend of mine who owns a yellow version of the car below.

http://homepage.mac.com/idioteque/windtunnel.jpg
(amnesiac1984)

Man, that's completely off the wall. Cool to look at, cool for a slow drive, not cool to drive if you plan to disturbed the drivers.

As for the Jeeps, our family has purchased four of them (one stolen). Whether or not it is American, it was awesome up to the 2001 models. Now you have to pay extra for even a sunroof, which came standard on most previous models.

chrisfx811
Apr 9, 2003, 08:32 PM
i have to admit that i dislike alot of the so called tuner cars i see. i also dislike the soccer moms in their huge ass suv's, but that's another story.
i can see the attraction for many of these kids to trick out their "economy" cars though. my brother doesn't have access to 20+ thousand dollars, so instead he bought a 95 integra with the intention of slowly adding things to it, until it is customized to his liking. at least he's not out gang-bangin', doing drugs, or gettin drunk.
i think it's funny how all you guys reminiscing about the ol skool muscle cars don't see the irony in bustin on these kids for doing exactly what many of you guys were doing to your big, bad v-8's.
just look at the performance of some of these "tuner cars"
dodge (american made) neon srt-4, turbo 4cyl
0-60 in 5.6 secs, and is the fastest car sold for under 20k
subaru wrx 227 hp, 0-60 under 6 secs
upcoming sti has approx 300 hp
honda civic type r 200 hp 4 cyl
the 1997-98 toyota supra twin turbo can still rip apart almost any car on the road today
mazda's new rotary engine rx-8 displacing 1.5L i believe, yet pumps out 250hp

as far as the illegal street racing, much of which takes place amidst traffic: i think these offenses should be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowed by law

G4scott
Apr 9, 2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by AlphaTech
I had thought of making some changes to my own truck (2002 Ranger, 4L v6)

I pulled a ford ranger out of somebody's yard with my 4-banger 91 Toyota 4WD Pickup (manual transmission). Of course, it was a prissy 2WD ranger, and the guy driving is a jackass. He tried to peel out on a wet road, lost control, and ended up in a yard. I was laughing.

I like smaller pickups (mainly toyota's, but that's just me.) I don't like navigating a huge 2 ton boat around a parking lot, or off road, where you can't really tell where your wheels are. 4x4 Ford Rangers are alright. I just don't like these new plastic trucks, or the chevy avalanche.

My truck, although old (140k miles, original engine, no rebuilds) still works nicely. It doesn't burn oil, the 4WD works when I need it to (although I have to get out and lock the hubs...). I like the 4 banger, because it saves gas, and I usually don't need the power, since that's what gears are for :cool: However, it would be nice to drop a small block into my toyota. Many other people have done it, and it's funny when you see this little toyota truck start up with a roar...

As for the ricers...

The ones with all the racing mods are stupid as heck. These kids should spend money on their education, or something more important than their cars. There's one car (I need to record the sound of his exhaust) that sounds like a pissed off weed-whacker. I have 2 cars with 4 bangers (my truck and a ford escort) and I would not even think about putting some noisy exhaust on any of them... The ricermobiles look and sound stupid. Now, a corvette stingray, ooh... That's a classic...

Now, my suburban, that's an engine... Although it's really quiet on the outside, you can still hear the rumble of the engine. Just take off the muffler, and it'd be nice, although I wouldn't want to disturb the peace.

As for normal un-tuned cars... Believe it or not, imports are actually better. Since most people don't need a high performance engine, the normal Toyotas and Hondas out there are better cars than their american counterparts. Even Ford said that their taurus sucks compared to imports. Imports are probably better mid size to small cars. Trucks, though, are different. Ford and GM make the best big a$$ trucks. I like the smaller Toyotas (hey, I drive one) because you can get 4WD and go places some monster trucks can't go.

As for the subaru Impreza WRX... That's one 4-banger I wouldn't mind driving. With as much, if not more horsepower than my suburban, that'd be nice.

The car that I want, though, is featured here :cool: (http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/info/concept/cadillac16/overview.html)

bombensington
Apr 9, 2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25
And as you may or may not know, General motors owns: chevy, gmc, buick, oldsmobile, pontiac, and cadillac.

and saturn, too.

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by strider42
If you want to buy american, you should buy toyota, bmw and other "foreign" cars, since their factories are in the US. My point is that there is no "american" or "foreign" brands really, just what cars are better.i get this argument every time...where do you think the HQ are located? who do you think gets the biggest share of profits? these japanese companies are not US conglomerates like GM and Ford. they have offices here because so many ppl buy into their products that it is more convinient for them to set up shop.

and for your foreign/domestic argument, everything is becoming more uniform, but differences still remain. foreign and domestic are still terms that are used for good reason. the theory breaks down when you have to get the foreign vehicle repaired and have to take it to a specialized shop or get specialized parts for it. the less popular foreign models will be more exxpensive than to the less popular american models.

And when you look across the spectrum of products, europeans and japanese cars perform better, are built better, are cleaner and often times are cheaper too. Europeans also have better styling (this retro crap american car makers are trying to pull off has got to go away)this is mostly opinion...the way a car is driven is the determinant characteristc. the cost factor could be attributed to the fact that they dont have to adhere to some of the sctict US standards.

but whatever...a cars a cars a car...i could care less. my main gripe is funds beiong siphoned out of this country. other countries seem to buy more of their own products.

strider42
Apr 9, 2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
i get this argument every time...where do you think the HQ are located? who do you think gets the biggest share of profits? these japanese companies are not US conglomerates like GM and Ford. they have offices here because so many ppl buy into their products that it is more convinient for them to set up shop.

and for your foreign/domestic argument, everything is becoming more uniform, but differences still remain. foreign and domestic are still terms that are used for good reason. the theory breaks down when you have to get the foreign vehicle repaired and have to take it to a specialized shop or get specialized parts for it. the less popular foreign models will be more exxpensive than to the less popular american models.

this is mostly opinion...the way a car is driven is the determinant characteristc. the cost factor could be attributed to the fact that they dont have to adhere to some of the sctict US standards.

but whatever...a cars a cars a car...i could care less. my main gripe is funds beiong siphoned out of this country. other countries seem to buy more of their own products. [/B]

Ok, but where are the jobs. We always here about needing to create new jobs, and while american companies will often go out of the country, foreign brands have come into the US, set up state of the art factories and employeed thousands. these firms pay income tax, and so do the workers. Foreign investment in the US is something that shuold be encouraged. Buying american may mean paying for a car who's parts and labor came from majority overseas locations and the tax base is lessened. Yes some profits leave the country with forieng brands, but does that outwieght the jobs and tax base they bring in. I don't know, but I doubt there's a whole lot in it in the end. Lets not forget that the US companies are heavily invested in foreign makers as well. The car market is really homogenized, much more than people think

You're right, about some foreigns costing more to repair, but the mass market ones can pretty much be repaired anywhere.

But while some of what I said about foreign makes are opinion, statistics always bear out that reliability and build quality is much higher with the foreign brands. And as for lower cost coming from not having to adhere to strict US standards, thats not a valid argument. No car can be sold here that doesn't meet US requirements, and since their labor is here in the US often time when many american brands are not, I would argue that its the american brands that get gains from avoiding US standards. I might also point out its the foreign makers pushing alternative fuels a lot more than the american companies.

Whatever, I'm gonna buy what I think suits me the best and is the best deal. I can't see that being an american car, and I won't feel bad about that cause I'll be supporting american workers anyway.

evoluzione
Apr 9, 2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
Now, where's evoluzione??

ahh bollocks, trust me to be out all day when there's a thread right up my street...

i see you've been bossin' this thread iGav mate, top one.

where do i start?????

the cars mentioned in the first post, "tuner cars" are pretty dire. there's a few nice ones, but the owners have no taste whatsoever, and they drive very badly, put any of these muppets on a road (with corners) or a circuit and i'd cane them, no doubt. having a lot of road racing experience back in england, i can say first hand that a lot of guys (and girls too) think they are the best drivers out there, they total their cars, and if they're lucky, survive. last time i was home (Bedford, England), I was unfortunate enough to see a Citroen Saxo VTS wrapped around a tree at the end of the Embankment (long straight road by the river, with a li'l bump and kink at the end). the kid died. He was probably doing around 60mph when he lost control, easily done on that aforementioned bump.

there is a certain stereotype for the drivers of the cars both here in the states and in england, and, especially in nyc, the tuner cars are just pathetic, so are the owners. maybe i was more mature than most when i was racing (argue at will ;) ) as i never got into any accidents, even though i was the one to beat in town, in my standard Toyota Corolla 1.3 hatch no less (high revving, lift off oversteer round the corners and good anticipation of gear changes etc) and never came even close to being stopped by the police, ever. I was careful, and more importantly, safe. and yes i do believe you can be safe at high speeds. it takes me a longtime to get used to my cars limits and be able to get near pushing them. i do sometimes get stereotyped when i mention i partook(?) in illegal street races, and i believe unfairly. my best mate back home will only race with me, he trusts no one else to drive, and he knows a lot about racing too.

ok, i'm waffling on now.....

evoluzione
Apr 9, 2003, 11:17 PM
oh, and heavy bass....

another area where i feel unfairly stereotyped :( . again, in my toyota back home, i had one of the loudest systems in my car, it even blew the back window out when i the bass on "Super Disco Breakin'" comes in :eek:

my system was crystal, was never tiring to listen to at high volumes, and yes, you could hear it half a mile away. i never played it top volume in residential areas mind.

there is a need for a system that's able to handle high volumes, and it's like having a car that can do way over the speed limit, it's nice to have those reserves :D (oh, and the bass in my car saved someones life once ;) they heard the bass and stepped back onto the path, if it wasn't for that, i hate to think...)

bousozoku
Apr 9, 2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by iJon
hummer too.

iJon

GM also owns Saab, Open, Vauxhall, and a portion of Isuzu.

They did own Lotus, but they messed that up too bad. Isuzu engines in Lotus cars...hmmmph.

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku
They did own Lotus, but they messed that up too bad. Isuzu engines in Lotus cars...hmmmph. god that's not even right...

evoluzione
Apr 9, 2003, 11:47 PM
it's amazing what companies actually own what.

to think ford owns jaguar and aston martin :eek:

mc68k
Apr 9, 2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by evoluzione
it's amazing what companies actually own what.

to think ford owns jaguar and aston martin :eek: and mitsubishi

dynamicd
Apr 10, 2003, 12:01 AM
I don't mind some tuner cars since my brother actually has a modified eclipse GT, which is actually a V-6. I agree that quite a few of them are annoying though. Theres a taco bell by my house back home where every friday night all the local kids go over there and show off their mufflers and tailights. I also have a love for the classic muscle car since my dad has a Z-28. For the majority of people modifying their cars, it's because they want some ass. If girls didn't show an interest in these cars then most guys wouldn't bother with it.

vniow
Apr 10, 2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by dynamicd
If girls didn't show an interest in these cars then most guys wouldn't bother with it.

I don't know a single girl who's attracted to a guy because of his car (myself included)http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251202

dynamicd
Apr 10, 2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by vniow
I don't know a single girl who's attracted to a guy because of his car (myself included)http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251202

Sorry, I shouldn't generalize like I did. A lot of girls between the ages of 14-25 seem to like those kind of cars though. I went to a fairly large high school and just about every guy that had a tuner car had girls too.

bousozoku
Apr 10, 2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by mc68k
and mitsubishi

Mitsubishi? I knew that they owned 51 percent of Mazda, but okay...that's particularly interesting. Chrysler always had money in Mitsubishi prior to being owned by/merged with Daimler-Benz.

What's really sad is that BMW owned Rolls Royce and Bentley, but they sold the works to Volkswagen. However, they kept the Rolls Royce name, so there will never be another RR made and sold by the same company, if at all. VW is going forward only making these cars with the Bentley name.

mc68k
Apr 10, 2003, 12:22 AM
minis are beamers now too, and it shows

its almost like the oil companies, and the soda bottling companies all merging

i believe they call it oligopoly, almost as bad os a monopoly

vniow
Apr 10, 2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by dynamicd
Sorry, I shouldn't generalize like I did. A lot of girls between the ages of 14-25 seem to like those kind of cars though. I went to a fairly large high school and just about every guy that had a tuner car had girls too.

No need to apoligize, I went (for a year, one of the worst schools I went to everhttp://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251202) to a fairly large high school and there were more than a few guys with 'tuner cars' (the children of yuppies mostly) and I guess they were popular with the girls, but not as popular as you would think, but then again I didn't hang out or pay much attention to that crowd so maybe I'm wrong here, but I can say this; if in fact girls are attracted to guys like that (and I'm not saying they're aren't) its not because of the car, its because of the type of person who would drive a car like that.

mc68k
Apr 10, 2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by vniow
its because of the type of person who would drive a car like that. self-absorbved trouble-makers

dynamicd
Apr 10, 2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by mc68k
self-absorbved trouble-makers

Haha, you shouldn't stereotype though. I know a few guys who are into it that are actually really nice and are just ordinary guys. They see it as a hobby and passion while other people see it as a trend.

mc68k
Apr 10, 2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by dynamicd
Haha, you shouldn't stereotype though. I know a few guys who are into it that are actually really nice and are just ordinary guys. They see it as a hobby and passion while other people see it as a trend. i agree. the whole pastime is about getting looks whether the ppl are nice or not. but i know a few good ricers too.

the novas own at the drag strip though

alex_ant
Apr 10, 2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by alex_ant
edited...

U already had one post reported today. This was completed uncalled for. Please restrict yourself from racial/ethical slurs. :rolleyes:
Are you blind? Just a question.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=satire

amnesiac1984
Apr 10, 2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by King Cobra
>I think the best story concerning tuner cars that I've heard comes from a friend of mine who owns a yellow version of the car below.

http://homepage.mac.com/idioteque/windtunnel.jpg
(amnesiac1984)

Man, that's completely off the wall. Cool to look at, cool for a slow drive, not cool to drive if you plan to disturbed the drivers.


What do you mean a slow ride? its goes 200+mph, it is a competitor in the Le Mans 24 hour race and built on the same chassis that maclaren used to test out components for their f1 coupe. And I checked and it does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and 0-180 in 14 seconds.

G4scott
Apr 10, 2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by mc68k
but whatever...a cars a cars a car...i could care less. my main gripe is funds beiong siphoned out of this country. other countries seem to buy more of their own products.

It's called trade. Trade is good. They buy our stuff, we buy theirs. If we support them, they hire and pay more people, who then buy US goods. It might not help out US auto-makers, but hey, if they don't turn profits, then maybe they'll try to make better cars. Besides, it will help other businesses that export stuff to Japan.

As for that oligopoly thing, If I remember correctly, it works in some cases, and isn't quite as bad as a monopoly. It's just that all competitors have similar prices, and there isn't much undercutting or drastic price drops. I may be wrong here, but I seem to remember a bit about oligopoly's from economics...

Either way, trade is good. It will either 1.) make US manufacturers make better cars, or 2.) switch production from cars to something else that they can profit from.

2 is highly unlikely, so we'll probably be seeing better cars from Ford and GM within a couple of years.

sturm375
Apr 10, 2003, 10:53 AM
The great thing about America, is that we are free ..., free to buy whatever car we want/can afford. Even though I personally don't care for these cars, I don't hold it against anyone for liking them.

There is a trend here though. These people who like to modify their cars, be it "turner", muscle, whatever, tend to be more agressive on the public roadways. I agree with the poster that suggested a public drag-strip/raceway where these people can rev'um up without endangering public safety. If it would make the road safer, I'd pay a little extra in taxes to support this. Heck I might even try one out sometime. Better yet, just charge fees, and pay for the drag-strip/raceway that way, without taxation!

Alphatech:
I own (making payments on) a 2002 Chevy Silverado V8 5.3L 2WD. I live in Chicagoland, we get plenty of snow, and nasty road conditions. You don't need 4WD to navigate the roadways. You just need to know how to drive properly in it. 2WDs get better gas milage, require less maintance, and less costly maintance, and since I have no plans to "off-road" with it, it makes no sense for me to spend extra for a 4WD. Besides, it was on the lot when they were trying to make room for the '03s, so I got an excellent deal on it.:)

evoluzione
Apr 10, 2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by sturm375
I live in Chicagoland, we get plenty of snow, and nasty road conditions. You don't need 4WD to navigate the roadways. You just need to know how to drive properly in it.

exactly, i think maybe 4wd puts the driver in a false sense of security, it's still dangerous driving on snow and ice, obviously, and if you know how to deal with it in 2wd, great. one example i have is when i drove from nyc to NH and i was following a snow storm all the way, in front of most of the snowploughs too. driving a huge (by english standards) oldsmobile which was fwd, and i passed no end of 4x4s in ditches. 4wd is better yes, but, most of the time, it isn't really needed, i admit it does make life easier though. especially on a wet race track ;)

DakotaGuy
Apr 10, 2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
Even Ford said that their taurus sucks compared to imports.
[/URL]

I have never heard Ford say that about their Taurus, that would be like Apple saying "Our PowerMacs suck compared to a Dell PC" Ford has acknowledged that their Taurus is an aging design from 1996 (2000) facelift and it is in need of a re-design, but they stand behind it as a good solid reliable car. My Dad has a 2000 Taurus 24Valve Duratec V6 and it is a nice looking and driving car with excellent power. They are a good choice for a person that wants a good quality, safe car for a lower price then the imports.

mc68k
Apr 10, 2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
2 is highly unlikely, so we'll probably be seeing better cars from Ford and GM within a couple of years. as long as it doesnt mean they change their styling...better does not mean more european or more japanese anything...just american applied differenty. i'd hate it if the US sold out.

bousozoku
Apr 10, 2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I have never heard Ford say that about their Taurus, that would be like Apple saying "Our PowerMacs suck compared to a Dell PC" Ford has acknowledged that their Taurus is an aging design from 1996 (2000) facelift and it is in need of a re-design, but they stand behind it as a good solid reliable car. My Dad has a 2000 Taurus 24Valve Duratec V6 and it is a nice looking and driving car with excellent power. They are a good choice for a person that wants a good quality, safe car for a lower price then the imports.

One V.P. at Ford did say something like "I guess Taurus isn't as good as the Toyota Camry." I think it was just in frustration to the constant "If Taurus was on top for so long, why is Camry on top now?" question.

It's a good car but Ford lost its edge when they put out the re-designed Taurus will ovals everywhere.

eyelikeart
Apr 10, 2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Are you blind? Just a question.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=satire

Actually, no I'm not blind. Are u ignorant?

Your post was reported, and I found it best to edit it. Satire is one thing, but degradation is another.

Watch it. :rolleyes:

amnesiac1984
Apr 10, 2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
as long as it doesnt mean they change their styling...better does not mean more european or more japanese anything...just american applied differenty. i'd hate it if the US sold out.

Why not more European? Just cos we don't drive cars with supertankers for fuel tanks, doesn't mean we have sold out. The majority of the cars in the cities here in Europe are very small and fuel efficient by US standards, now surely that could be a good thing?

And as for styling, although i like retro US cars, IMO modern american cars are very uninovative and broing compared to european and japanese rivals, and theres somehting about them that makes them look all the same. Ford makes quite a lot of cars but they only sell some of them in Europe, and it seems that the cars they don't sell here are very ugly looking. For example I just saw a picture of the Ford Crown Victoria on the ford website, my god that thing is ugleeee. It looks outdated, though I don't think I know of a car of any age that looks that bad. There is one exception to this theory of american ugly cars v europeand pretty ones. Ever seen a FIAT MULTIPLA?

http://www.showroom@fiat.co.uk/merismus%5CGallery%5Cc4021a.jpg

mc68k
Apr 10, 2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by amnesiac1984
Ever seen a FIAT MULTIPLA?
fiat stands for:

[italian accent]fix it again tony![/italian accent]

alex_ant
Apr 10, 2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
Actually, no I'm not blind. Are u ignorant?

Your post was reported, and I found it best to edit it. Satire is one thing, but degradation is another.

Watch it. :rolleyes:
This entire thread is a racist troll, you knob, and I was the first to post an anti-racist comment. I don't care if you edited my post. What's surprising is that the thread is still open. I guess merely deleting all the references to "Jap cars" and "riceboys" is enough - it's okay to be racist as long as we do it implicitly, right?

guitargeek
Apr 10, 2003, 06:10 PM
I love my American car! I've had three thus far, and have had very minimal problems, just general stuff like tune-ups, wheel alignment, etc. I'm driving a 98 Grand Prix right now, which is a bit under powered, but it's nothing that some new ignition, cam, and intake can't take care of.

I have a soft spot for BMW, though. There's just something about them... they're so damn sexy. I dream of owning an M3 convertible.... *drool*

And, sure, you see a bunch of 80's Honda's around, but many more 80's American vehicles, still kicking strong (unless it's a Ford... in which case it probably died while under warranty ;) ) And how many 70's Japanese cars are still around? Not too many, and I know quite a few people that are still driving 70's cars as their only vehicles, and not because they were taken immacculate care of, either. And not even NICE 70's cars, like a Camaro or something. We're talking about rusted out Pintos and stuff like that, but they're still going strong.

I have to hand it to Toyota, though, they build a VERY reliable vehicle, even though I'd rather have my testicles pounded flat than work on one... I tinkered with a friend's Camry (or was it a Corrolla?), and it had to have been the worst engine compartment design I had ever seen. Pain in the ass car, but it'll run until you're grandchildren are dead.

evoluzione
Apr 10, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by guitargeek
And, sure, you see a bunch of 80's Honda's around, but many more 80's American vehicles, still kicking strong (unless it's a Ford... in which case it probably died while under warranty ;) ) And how many 70's Japanese cars are still around? Not too many, and I know quite a few people that are still driving 70's cars as their only vehicles, and not because they were taken immacculate care of, either. And not even NICE 70's cars, like a Camaro or something. We're talking about rusted out Pintos and stuff like that, but they're still going strong.

I have to hand it to Toyota, though, they build a VERY reliable vehicle, even though I'd rather have my testicles pounded flat than work on one... I tinkered with a friend's Camry (or was it a Corrolla?), and it had to have been the worst engine compartment design I had ever seen. Pain in the ass car, but it'll run until you're grandchildren are dead.


yeah, but then, what percentage of cars bought in the USA were foreign?? not many I'd guess. you see a fair few elsewhere, I believe that the Japanese cars makers weren't really that common until the SUVs and trucks let them in, wasn't there some limit on the amount of imported cars or something, so they got round it by importing trucks????

evoluzione
Apr 10, 2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
This entire thread is a racist troll, you knob, and I was the first to post an anti-racist comment. I don't care if you edited my post. What's surprising is that the thread is still open. I guess merely deleting all the references to "Jap cars" and "riceboys" is enough - it's okay to be racist as long as we do it implicitly, right?

What are you talking about???? what, we're not allowed to mention another country any more??? Is "buying American" racist? I don't think so, sure there are people that do that because they may be racist, but that's the exception, no?

jelloshotsrule
Apr 10, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by evoluzione
What are you talking about???? what, we're not allowed to mention another country any more??? Is "buying American" racist? I don't think so, sure there are people that do that because they may be racist, but that's the exception, no?

he's referring to the comments about "jap cars" and apparently "rice boys"... not about wanting to buy american cars.

ps. if you don't see the comments he's referring to, it's because they have been edited out already.

bousozoku
Apr 10, 2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by evoluzione
What are you talking about???? what, we're not allowed to mention another country any more??? Is "buying American" racist? I don't think so, sure there are people that do that because they may be racist, but that's the exception, no?

Shortening Japanese that way is a racist slur.

There's nothing wrong with talking about cars at all, no matter where they're made or who buys or drives them.

alex_ant:

Please calm down. Things happened. Things were changed. It's over.

G4scott
Apr 10, 2003, 07:28 PM
A note on the 4WD thing... The best way to drive is in a 4-banger with 4WD. It's not so powerful that you can easily lose control (although you still could if you tried.) yet the 4x4 has got the balls to get you out of places where your little 4-banger on 2 wheels wouldn't.

As for the racist part, this came from www.riceboypage.com (mods, if you edit, please cut below the dotted line.)
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The term "Rice-Boy" is meant to be a derogatory term. But not racially derogatory. Some people might say that regardless of what this disclaimer says, it makes Asians look bad. Well, I hate to break it to these people but asians are not the only people on this planet who eat rice. Everyone eats rice. White people eat rice. Black people eat rice. Native Americans? They eat rice. Europeans eat rice!! And, if you open your eyes, you might notice that a whole lot of the rice-boys out there aren't even asian! The "rice" really refers to their cars. It's not about their race, it's about their attitude!
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Sun Baked
Apr 10, 2003, 08:07 PM
Look at it from another view point, and the thread would be...

American 4x4s and the beer swilling rednecks that modify them. Large tires, lift kits, roll bars, stickers, loud exhaust, engine mods, etc.

Even though a lot of 4x4s are now soccer mom chic and rarely go off-road...

...and the people that drive and modify them most likely aren't rednecks.