ThinkSecret :: Dell and Target dropping iPod

[yzedf]

According to ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/) both Dell (http://www.dell.com/) and Target (http://www.target.com/) are dropping the iPod. Story can be found here (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/targetdell.html). This is being attributed to Apple's new contract with sellers that was discussed last week (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/dealercontracts.html).

[patrick0brien]

-%^$&@#!

Yeah, I read that.

We needed to keep those guys, especially Dell - what powerful free marketing for we Apple fans!

I hope we can get them back.

[chewbaccapits]

freaken Apple...This contract stuff is bs!

[Datazoid]

Yeah....I'd noticed this a couple days ago (reports from dealmac on iPod closeouts at Target/no listings on Dell) There's also an article on Maccentral (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/04/09/dellipod/) right now that confirms this....its a shame...why doesnt Apple learn? Regardless of how many Macs are SOLD through these outlets, its about EXPOSURE and PERCEPTION. Mass-market stores=mass market product. Niche store=Niche product. I thought it was stupid when they pulled Macs from Best Buy and Circuit City too, though. Its at the point where if you want to buy an Apple product, you have to go looking specifically for one, and in today's world, where people walk in to places like Best Buy, etc, with a grand (or two) in hand and walk out with a computer, that isn't going to cause any kind of market growth. Apple doesn't want to be a niche forever, do they?

[vniow]

Having Dell and Target and Best Buy sell iPods (although the later two could have done a better job of displaying them.....) was one of the smartest things they've done on the past few years.
I really don't see how it could harm them in any way, aside from the bad stigma stemmed from a defective unit.

If this is true, then it will become one of the dumbest ideas they've done in the past few years.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Datazoid
There's also an article on Maccentral (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/04/09/dellipod/) right now that confirms this....its a shame...why doesnt Apple learn? [/RANT]


Ouch, I guess that confirms it then.http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=259055

When will they learn!?

Typical Apple, one step forward and two steps back.http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=259055http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=259055http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=259055

[yzedf]

I am wondering if this was done due to Apple's inability to supply more than what they can personally sell? 5GB iPod's don't exist anymore (Holiday demand my ass). 10GB iPod's seem to be in rather short supply. It took way too long for the 12" and 17" powerbooks to start shipping, and even then it was mostly to the USA, to customers of Apple directly, not the resellers. The Radeon 9700 Pro was an option for how long, without a real shipdate? Meanwhile, the 9800 Pro is available for PC's before the 9700 Pro was for Mac's. iMac's weren't shipping at the needed rate until the demand fell. Apple can't decide if the low end powermac should be single or dual proc. OS X updates break things on new machines. iBook batteries, and iPod batteries, are hard pressed to last one year. 10 deae or stuck pixels before Apple will replace LCD screen. TiBook paint and airport reception issues continue to occur. Last iMovie update...

Apple's sales for the past few years or more or less stagnant, regardless of the behaviour of the current market (up, down, or even). Yet they are starting to act like a company that is on top with no cares in the world. But they aren't, are they?!

</rant>

M$ still sucks more...

http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/04/04/14gripe_1.html

[iJon]

well apple had strict contracts and they didnt follow them. i always thought it was funny, do anyone of you get those preferred customer coupons at best buy. if you ever look on the back in small letters it says you cannont get a discount on bose products or ipods.

iJon

[yzedf]

Originally posted by iJon
well apple had strict contracts and they didnt follow them. i always thought it was funny, do anyone of you get those preferred customer coupons at best buy. if you ever look on the back in small letters it says you cannont get a discount on bose products or ipods.

iJon
I didn't know that... but I am not shocked either :(

[damax452]

This is just one of the reasons that Apple struggles so much in the world of technology. The company just has no marketing sense. I was planning on buying an ipod for quite a while, but with the abscence of them in many stores and no explanation from Apple why they aren't there; I've lost interest. Apple should just announce when they will release things so we all don't have to play guessing games. So, Apple, if you're listening ( i know you aren't but oh well), you have lost a costomer due to your secrecy and bad marketing. Shame, i'll spend my $500 elsewhere. :(

[alset]

I'm trying so hard to shut out all this negative BS that Apple is stirring up, but it keeps making me question whether we will go the way of BeOS.

Click your heels three times and repeat after me: They have a good reason.... They know something I don't.... Bah - who am i kidding?

Dan

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by iJon
well apple had strict contracts and they didnt follow them. i always thought it was funny, do anyone of you get those preferred customer coupons at best buy. if you ever look on the back in small letters it says you cannont get a discount on bose products or ipods.

iJon

That's true of lots of companies' products. Look at a macy's coupon in the paper (or Dayton-Hudson/Marshall-Fields, etc.), they never apply to Levi's Dockers, Henckels knives, Calphalon cookware, etc. Those companies all have minimum prices that the stores can't sell below, so they get excluded.

That said, Apple's marketing is just a mess. They make great ads for TV and print (which is really an ad agency thing), but then constantly piss off their distributors. It amazes me that any of these places continue to do business with Apple. Places like Macwarehouse etc. could do plenty of business selling all the non-apple products -- printers, cables, software, etc. -- and ditch the computers. I've never understood why they don't.

It's so strange, because broad distribution of products is itself marketing. Maybe target wasn't featuring ipods prominently, but that's a separate issue. If Apple wants to be anything more than a niche player that barely survives, it has to drop the 'tude it cops with these folks.

[cyberfunk]

I dont know what you've done to piss all these resellers off (could someone remind me in a compact, succient manner ?) , but it was a bad move. It's time to eat crow pie. Now. (crow pie is best eaten when WARM)

[cubist]

Oh, BTW, so when they speak of "clearing out" these (ahem) old iPods, perhaps at a somewhat, you might say, (ahem) lowered price, where might one look to, so to speak, avail himself of the opportunity to, one might say, assist them in alleviating that burden? :)

[MacFan25]

Hopefully they Apple can get them to start seling them soon. Maybe they will decide to start selling them again if and when the iPods get updated.

[shadowfax]

i can't help but wonder if they are letting things get bad before they release their next big thing, but good god this seems utterly stupid. i've been waiting for a hardware announcement for almost 2 months now, and they just regress. humbug!

[reyesmac]

Why can't Apple just stop trying to control everything and just play nice like everone else out there? Just let the stores sell the things how they want to sell them. If they are not selling well it is only because at some stores $400 for an MP3 player is a joke.

[jeffberg]

cmone guys, have some faith. Apple is a big company. They are not stupid, they know what they are doing. I think they know what they are doing, I just can't figure out what it is. We shall see. BeOS is still alive. www.beosonline.com

[RLB]

Dell and Target might want to give whatever remaining supplies they have back to Apple Stores b/c the Soho, Westchester, and Palisades stores have had none for the past week. Whats going on?

[Kid Red]

Wow, sounds like iLife for $99 all over again. Unless someone has the orginal accepted contract and the new revised contract that these companies dropped selling the iPods because of, I'd hold my thoughts and opinions. It's only one side of the story and your conclusion is usually way off.

[Chisholm]

As far as selling the computers in Circuit City, etc., I think its great Apple pulled them. The "sales staff" at those places typically suck when you ask a question that isn't covered on the info card they read to people. Have you ever looked at a computer after its been on the floor for a while? They become their own worst advertisement.

I wonder if something in the iPod contract wouldn't allow Dell and Target to return unsold units. Those can be expensive puppies to get stuck with.

cheers!
John

[alset]

Originally posted by jeffberg
BeOS is still alive. www.beosonline.com

The BeOS community may be kicking, but the BeOS is dead, buried and worm food. The future of that system is... well, no future at all.

Note: If you wonder how this relates to the iPod you are not reading the whole thread.

Dan

[melchior]

for whoever asked, all targets are selling ipod's at a dicount in their retail outlets and it tends to vary in price, some have noted $300 10gb

Kid Red, you can read the ammendment's to the contract on one of the sites that have been linked through this thread. i forget which one, maybe maccentral. i just woke up. sorry. it's not the full contract, but you can get the idea of why reseller's were declining to sign. and by the way, it's not just target and dell, it looks to be some 50 or resellers...

[DakotaGuy]

Does anyone think that maybe this signals the end to the iPod? Or at least the iPod as we know it... No updates for a long time, dwindling stock, and several distributors having the plug pulled....

[redeye]

>>They make great ads for TV and print<<

Apple's advertising is atrocious.
In this month's DV, they had a 2 page spread in a place where nobody would see it. The visuals were stale, generic '80s.
Inside, in a choice right page spot, was a pc ad disguised as an article. Readable and directed at the youth market.
The article was about a company that dumped their Macs for PC.
The identical Apple campaign - except theirs was done well and
to the point.

[LinuxGigolo]

I think it's kinda interesting that Best Buy didn't also drop it. I wonder what made Best Buy any different than Dell and Target with regards to its reseller contract with Apple. I bought my iPod at Best Buy, and I, personally, like the idea that I can shop at a place that offers an extended warranty service plan on my $400 mp3 player. I hope Best Buy doesn't go the way that Dell and Target have.

[sanford]

Originally posted by yzedf
iBook batteries, and iPod batteries, are hard pressed to last one year.

Apple just released a firmware update for iPods that solves the battery problems. Apple just posted a KB article that explains how to purge and recharge your iBook battery so that the onboard power controller microchip will properly report the charge status of the battery.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Does anyone think that maybe this signals the end to the iPod? Or at least the iPod as we know it... No updates for a long time, dwindling stock, and several distributors having the plug pulled....
i highly doubt it, its the number 1 mp3 player in us and japan last time i checked. i think its this music service we keep hearing about thats holding them off. im sure they would like to release a new ipod, new itunes, and a new service all at the same time.

iJon

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by iJon
im sure they would like to release a new ipod, new itunes, and a new service all at the same time.

iJon

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

i_b_joshua

[yzedf]

Originally posted by sanford
Apple just released a firmware update for iPods that solves the battery problems. Apple just posted a KB article that explains how to purge and recharge your iBook battery so that the onboard power controller microchip will properly report the charge status of the battery.
Which is fine, for those of us that pay attention. Most people do not. What about them?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by yzedf
Which is fine, for those of us that pay attention. Most people do not. What about them?

if you don't care enough for your 500-1500$ investment, you deserve the problems you get. a car doesn't go for years without basic maintenance (usually). people who don't maintain their drivers/firmware have themselves to blame for performance losses.

[murderofcrows]

Originally posted by sanford
Apple just released a firmware update for iPods that solves the battery problems. Apple just posted a KB article that explains how to purge and recharge your iBook battery so that the onboard power controller microchip will properly report the charge status of the battery.

my ibook has just started playing up in the last few days in regards to weird battery stuff. could you please post a link to this KB article you refer to.
ta.

[macdong]

Originally posted by yzedf
Which is fine, for those of us that pay attention. Most people do not. What about them?


In my opinion, mistakes are allowed, if they are fixed.
A little update wouldn't hurt anyone.
Sure, maybe Apple was in a hurry to release those stuffs, but look at what we have, and what we WILL have.
I can only say I am very satisfied :)

[P-Worm]

Come on guys, the battery talk is a little off-topic.

As for what I think about Dell and Target pulling the iPods, it might not be that bad. At first I was upset because any business is good business right? Maybe not. Target is notorious for crappy customer service and the fact that Dell sold an Apple product might have confused people. I also thought it was a bad idea for Apple to put an end to their OS being placed on other computers. But now that I look back on it, I see that it is for the better.

I'm not saying I know much about business and how it operates, but I think Apple does and I put my faith in them.

P-Worm

[sanford]

Originally posted by murderofcrows
my ibook has just started playing up in the last few days in regards to weird battery stuff. could you please post a link to this KB article you refer to.
ta.

Here's the battery purge KB item:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86284

and in case you don't have it, the KB on how to reset the power management unit (PMU) (the battery manager in the iBook itself):

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449

I'd do both and I'm not sure which you should do first. Logic would dictate, reset the PMU, then do the full battery drain and recharge. If you don't actually want to work on your iBook the whole time it takes the battery to drain, just play a CD over and over and over again (set repeat in iTunes).

[TMJ1974]

I've seen mention that Target stores are offering "clearance" prices on their remaining iPods. Anyone get a lower price in MD or VA ?

I just called and they quoted the same $399

I'd love to pick one up for less.

Tim

[rainman::|:|]

while the think different ads spawned a great hype; apple's marketing lacks substance and style at this point. they're clutching to this minimalistic aesthetic vision that was really over a couple of years ago. in their actual product ads (not switch), they use less minimalism but more surrealism-- you have the feeling that everything is just too perfect... its a nice idea but they've overdone it. and the switch ads don't particularly grab attention.

more to the point of the thread, i think apple's retail connections are a joke. they focus on their website and apple stores, other retail outlets are just an afterthought. it's a wonder any retailers are interested at all in apple's products-- clearly apple is not maintaining good dealer relationships. maybe it explains why the apple sections of so many stores are in such bad shape... i digress. sure apple can ignore retailers if they've got a handful of apple stores within 100 miles, but not everyone in the US, let alone the world has this convenience. leaves us with the online store... and frankly, i'm too tactile to buy things like that online...

pnw

[Monkeypoo]

Is there a list of these 50 some odd resellers that will no longer be selling apple products or limiting the variety of apple stock? I noticed that someone said BestBuy isn't among them which makes me happy since the guy at my best buy told me he didn't think they would be selling mac ipods anymore (not that I trusted the guy since he didn't seem to have any supporting evidence except that they hadn't gotten any in for awhile which is the case for almost every place selling ipods). I really want to get my ipod at best buy to get that warranty plan (cheap for what it the ipod costs and I'm even willing to pay the 8.9% sales tax and ignore the education price at the apple store). But if worse comes to worse, I guess I'll just get covereage by my visa card.

[bousozoku]

Apple's legal department has been the company's worst enemy since the Macintosh arrived. They won't learn until the company is dead.

[Protean Son]

>The BeOS community may be kicking, but the >BeOS is dead, buried and worm food. The >future of that system is... well, no future at all.
>
> Note: If you wonder how this relates to the >iPod you are not reading the whole thread.
>
>Dan

Actually, the BeOS is not dead. The source code was licensed by YellowTab (www.yellowtab.com),
which they are using to make a new OS called zeta with, which is basically continuing in the same line BeOS was.

I personally would never want to use it, because I love OS X, but if one were so inclined to use it BeOS is still being developed by a corporation.

[MacBandit]

I went to my local Target today and they are still at there regular price there.

[d46799]

Ouch! Unless for some reason they *wanted* to oust these guys...maybe they figure demand is already high, and can make more $$$ selling more of them themselves.

[chewbaccapits]

Originally posted by LinuxGigolo
I think it's kinda interesting that Best Buy didn't also drop it. I wonder what made Best Buy any different than Dell and Target with regards to its reseller contract with Apple. I bought my iPod at Best Buy, and I, personally, like the idea that I can shop at a place that offers an extended warranty service plan on my $400 mp3 player. I hope Best Buy doesn't go the way that Dell and Target have.

Well, without much knowledge, I would ASSUME that the reason BEST BUY is still onboard is because OF the extended warranty, don't you think? I mean, if you bought the extended plan, for what, 2-3 years, they should still be able to carry it, so that they can honor replacements, no?

[rdas7]

Apple pulled their products from these retailers for the simple reason that their products were not being showcased or sold in the way that they wanted.

Look at how much time and effort and money has been spent on setting up Genius Bars at the Apple Store. They are obviously quite adamant that their products get sold by knowledgeable sales people. Throwing an iMac in the corner of a Target with no one to explain its features not only leads to low sales (in which case Apple has little interest in preserving it) but also tarnishes the overall image of the product.

Previous poster was right about niche stores = niche product, mainstream store = mainstream product in the public's perception. But Apple are all about making the Rolls Royce of computers. If Rolls Royces were parked rusting on every street corner, it might increase public awareness of the product, but it wouldn't necessarily make them any more willing to buy one.

People who know, know.

[switcherck]

I've been visitng the forum for some time and finally decided to register and post because this thread.

It sounds like Apple was burned by their old contract and the legal dept. tried to correct that, but resellers balked ad the new language. I agree that Dell and Target probably do not do a great job of selling the iPod. Sales reps at Target and Dell probably can't expound on the virtues of the iPod as well as an Apple Store employee could. This leads me to my broader point:

I think Apple has created a dichotomy between how it would "like" to be preceived by consumers and how it "is" preceived by consumers. Apple would like to expand its market share and to do this it has tried to appeal to the mass market. However, it tries to appeal through switcher ads that come off as aloof and odd (just like pre-switcher apple ad campaigns). My point is that Apple has tried to appeal to the broader market w/o changing their marketing scheme. They still come off as trendy, aloof, and hip. There's nothing wrong w/ that, except that the average joe can feel like an outsider. PC people are conditioned to computer ads that give specs and prices. Apple ads do not cater to that conditioning. Apple is caught between maintaing its image as a "cool" company and creating a new image that appeals to the average PC user.

[bousozoku]

Yes, Apple was burned by their old contract because it had no language to support "we can do whatever we want and if you don't like it, shut up."

Now, they're being sued by several independent stores, which have been unfortunate enough to be in close proximity to an Apple Store or haven't been able to get hardware because Apple has restricted the flow to anything but a trickle except at Apple Stores.

If someone else was doing this, we'd call it monopolistic practices. Some people would call it good business. It just seems to me to be useless and stupid to hurt your own chances.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by chewbaccapits
Well, without much knowledge, I would ASSUME that the reason BEST BUY is still onboard is because OF the extended warranty, don't you think? I mean, if you bought the extended plan, for what, 2-3 years, they should still be able to carry it, so that they can honor replacements, no?


Nah, I bought a washer and dryer from Circuit City a few years ago and at that time I bought there extended satisfaction guarantee. All in all it's guaranteed against anything for 6 years. Well the year after I bought it Circuit City quit carrying washers, dryers, etc.. The guarantee is still good though because I've used it a couple times. They just have to outsource product rather then being able to pull it out of there own inventory.

[question fear]

Just to jump in on the extended warranty stuff-they are not good indicators of products being carried, as they are generally worded or executed so that, as the previous poster said, they can be outsourced OR if you buy a replacement plan, that they are replaced with something of equal value to the price you paid for it. Things with technology that move fast (computers, PDAs, even IPods) generally get this sort of warranty because if your brand new state of the art laptop three years ago dies and they can't replace it, they need to give you something equal to what you paid, and your machine may have a) depreciated in value or b) not be made anymore due to chip availability/new os on the market/wind blowing north by northwest instead of southeast.
So yea, extended warranties on your purchase but in terms of replacement they just need to replace your purchase amount.
Anyhow, I am new here, been lurking for a while.
Hello.
--Carly

[colymore]

I heard the same thing is happening in Europe too... Is it the same reason why you can find powerbooks at insane prices there?