Survey Shows Increasing Mac Interest

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A new survey (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20061016/bs_ibd_ibd/20061016tech;_ylt=AlRjq.PGlhBn.mcTWLaBXfUxVrIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--) by ChangeWave Research reveals that Apple is poised to grab more PC switchers this holiday season.

ChangeWave Research surveyed its members which are described as a "group of 9000 businesses, technology and medical professionals who are working on the front line of technological change."

Apple's share of laptops bought July-September was up 3 percentage points to an all-time high of 12% among alliance members. Its share of desktops purchased the past 90 days fell 4 points to 7%. In the next six months, Apple's share of all planned desktop purchases is up 4 points to 18%. Its share of planned laptop purchases is down 2 points to 17%.

Meanwhile, according to IDC, Apple's U.S. marketshare was 4.8% in the second quarter, up from 4.4% a year ago, while its worldwide marketshare remains at 2.5%.

[Jesus]

Increased marketshare is good, up to a point. Also, if world marketshare is staying the same, but the US is increasing, somewhere in the world apple is becoming less popular.

[Queso]

I'm becoming sure that however many Macs Apple sells, that market share figure will never climb above the magic 5% limit.

Does saying that make me one of those Mac Zealots I keep hearing about?

[vincebio]

i cant believe how low the world marketshare is after a good few years now of ipod halo etc etc...

[mkrishnan]

It's interesting how large the magnitude of disconnect between the planned purchase estimates and the actual marketshare is for Macs (e.g.. 17-18% of people planning to buy computers state they will get a Mac, but only 5-7% actually do). In contrast the numbers later for HP seem relatively close to their actual marketshare numbers.

They don't offer an interpretation, but one tempting one is that people who are very strongly considering getting a Mac get dissuaded as they get immediately close to purchase, to a much greater extent than PC buyers.

[Queso]

i cant believe how low the world marketshare is after a good few years now of ipod halo etc etc...
I can. The iPod halo doesn't work without going hand in hand with the Apple Stores. If people are buying their iPods from shops that don't stock Macs, their opinions on Macs never change. If they buy an iPod from an Apple Store and see Macs all around doing everything their Windows computer can do and more, they become more open to buying a Mac next time a computer purchase comes round.

Apple need to open more international Stores if they want the worldwide share to increase.

[swingerofbirch]

People with PCs must not leave their houses much...I've been to coffee shops and airports all over, and it seems about half of the laptops I see are Apple.

[cherrypop]

Meanwhile, according to IDC, Apple's U.S. marketshare was 4.8% in the second quarter, up from 4.4% a year ago, while its worldwide marketshare remains at 2.5%.


Everything seems lined up to finally make significant progress (read double market share, from 4%-8%) in the next five years, but I believe Apple still needs to address the general public's price objection issue. Vista will push a huge number of PC users to the Mac platform, but it's not going to happen overnight.

I also think Mac users get the Mac value proposition, but I still have a lot of acquaintances that would rather pay less for a PC because they've never given Apple the chance to prove exactly why there's a premium to own an entry-level Mac.

Apple has done a lot to quell this argument, with high end Macs spec'ing out dollar-for-dollar either equal to or lower than the competition, but Apple still doesn't have a highly desirable and successful Switch machine (or campaign). For whatever reason(s) the Mac mini isn't that machine.

[Chundles]

I can. The iPod halo doesn't work without going hand in hand with the Apple Stores. If people are buying their iPods from shops that don't stock Macs, their opinions on Macs never change. If they buy an iPod from an Apple Store and see Macs all around doing everything their Windows computer can do and more, they become more open to buying a Mac next time a computer purchase comes round.

Apple need to open more international Stores if they want the worldwide share to increase.

Amen to that. The Mac buying experience here in Aus is exactly as you describe. 99% of the iPods bought are from department stores or tech shops - not a Mac in sight.

Bring on the Apple Store Sydney - damn it would be good. Such an amazing place to put a flagship store in one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

[Play Ultimate]

It would be interesting to separate out the corporate vs. personal computer purchases. It is hard for Mac to get much above 5% when corporate puchases are included. BTW, it would be interesting to see how many of those "computers" are just dumb terminals used in stores and schools etc.

Remember, there are lies and there are statistics. :rolleyes:

[FF_productions]

I think Apple needs to start attracting the business aspect of the world. It is so Windows-dominated right now, it's ridiculous. Am I right?:confused:


I don't know many people that own a Mac. Seriously. Off the top of my head, there are 7-8 people I know that have a PC, and half of those are dells.

Why the hell do I own a Mac? Stability. I've gone through 4 years of Windows. I don't need viruses, etc. This is a hassle free OS.


Apple needs to open more Apple Stores, show people there are better things than Windows.

[konquererkarlos]

People with PCs must not leave their houses much...I've been to coffee shops and airports all over, and it seems about half of the laptops I see are Apple.

I concurr. Almost every concert I go to now, I see a MacBook on stage. I see mac notebooks everywhere. One thing I hate is when i see people dissuading potential buyers away from macintoshes, simply because Windows is the more common operating system, when most of the time, these are new computer buyers and wouldn't be able to use Wwindows in the first place.

[FF_productions]

I concurr. Almost every concert I go to now, I see a MacBook on stage. I see mac notebooks everywhere. One thing I hate is when i see people dissuading potential buyers away from macintoshes, simply because Windows is the more common operating system, when most of the time, these are new computer buyers and wouldn't be able to use Wwindows in the first place.


AND I HATE when people say ALL Macs are SLOW when they are running on a G3 iMac!!

[shelterpaw]

I'd like to see a sample in Silicon Valley. There's such a large concentration of computer users and this is the leading technical area. When I walk down University Avenue in Palo Alto, I always see people with Apple laptops in coffee shops and other places. I am thinking if more people in Silicon Valley change to Apple branded laptops, then other area's will follow since these are the tech savvy people. I don't think will see much in the financial sector for some time as there's not much software that works on the Mac.

[MacsRgr8]

How many iPods in the US are actually sold in Apple Stores?
We in Holland have "Apple Centres" (look similar to Apple Stores, but are not owned by Apple), and they ofcourse sell iPods. In theory there is no difference in the iPod's halo-effect IF they are bought in a US-Apple Store, or a Dutch Apple Retailer's Stores. Consumers buy iPods while surrounded by great Apple computers.

Trouble is, that most iPods sold are bought in places like Dixons, or other large consumer-electronics store. No halo-effect, 'cause there are no Macs, and if there were any, hardly any salesperson knows enough about them to actually try to push the sales of Macs.

Is that any different in the US? Do the iPod-buyers actually go to an Apple Store to get one? I'm sure the closest consumer-elcetronics store would be much more convenient.

IMHO, it still is a marketing issue. Mac-ads on Dutch TV?? Most people don't even know Apple make the iPods! (:eek: ) If they see an iMac, some even call it the "iPod-computer", but have no idea it can do stuff their PC can do too.

One of the best quotes I have heard: "Wow.... you can get iTunes on your... eh... Apple-computer?"

[lmalave]

It would be interesting to separate out the corporate vs. personal computer purchases. It is hard for Mac to get much above 5% when corporate puchases are included. BTW, it would be interesting to see how many of those "computers" are just dumb terminals used in stores and schools etc.

Remember, there are lies and there are statistics. :rolleyes:

The survey was a consumer survey, not a corporate procurement department survey. So that 18% figure for desktops and 17% for laptops appear to be the percentage of consumers that are considering a Mac purchase. As a poster pointed out above *planned* purchase doesn't necessarily translate into *actual* purchase, but it's definitely an encouraging sign to se 15 to 20 percent numbers for consumer purchases. I think Apple would be ecstatic to get 15% of
the consumer market this holiday season. I don't think Apple is even considering any significant corporate push now. Apple knows it has a much better chance of success in the consumer market.

[dops7107]

People with PCs must not leave their houses much...I've been to coffee shops and airports all over, and it seems about half of the laptops I see are Apple.

There's something strange about coffee shops and Mac laptops. They seem to attract the same crowd. Hanging out in coffee bars toying on a Macbook - it does have a certain, almost clicheed, image, doesn't it?

[lmalave]

AND I HATE when people say ALL Macs are SLOW when they are running on a G3 iMac!!

I think switching to Intel is helping Apple dispel this argument. Before Apple was captive to the Megahertz Myth, but now that Macs are using the same CPUs as PCs, for most casual consumers this will hopefully translate to acceptance that Macs get more or less the same performance as PCs (I am talking casual consumers not gamers which are a small fraction of the overall consumer market).

[jellomizer]

I concurr. Almost every concert I go to now, I see a MacBook on stage. I see mac notebooks everywhere. One thing I hate is when i see people dissuading potential buyers away from macintoshes, simply because Windows is the more common operating system, when most of the time, these are new computer buyers and wouldn't be able to use Wwindows in the first place.

Well it is an issue of Risk Manangement. Whie true most people will be better off with a Mac. If they don't know anything better, the PC seems like the safest choice, Just because the numbers show more PC are out there and if you go to CompUSA you get 6-7 iles of Windows Programs and a little corner with Mac Products (often at a higher price too :mad: ). If they didn't like their Mac they are stuck with it. At least with the PC if it sucks you can use the programs you have on the Newer System (theroretically). It is hard to explain to them that OS X and iLife is equilvalnt to about $1000 of 3rd party software that you will need to get to match the quality, (not the crap that most PC come standard with) espectailly because all the feature seems to be there. iPhoto vs. Mr. Pic Foto softare, Mail vs. Outlook Express. But for someone new that is tough to explain. When they are computer savy enough they already have already invested into PC and PC Software so getting them to swich is hard too.

At least now with bootcamp you can go. Get a Mac if you really hate it after a few weeks we can put windows on it, and it will run that fine too.

[JONNYCHO]

Increased marketshare is good, up to a point. Also, if world marketshare is staying the same, but the US is increasing, somewhere in the world apple is becoming less popular.
Yup I agree, I think more Windows users are actually switching to Linux now and some Apple users too, but I don't know for sure maybe someone canfind a recent survey taken with that.

[Queso]

As things stand, Apple have no chance in the corporate market. Microsoft, for all their faults, offer real enterprise level interaction between their software products, and Apple can't match that. Apple also have a problem that there is already a BSD UNIX embedded into the enterprise in the shape of Sun's Solaris, so they can't even push that angle.

Consumers and small businesses. Apple gets a majority of them and they quadruple their current market share. Along with education, scientists and creatives, that base would then allow them to attempt the enterprise. At the moment any push into big business would be money down the drain.

[lyzardking]

and when people realize that to get the most out of Vista they will need a new machine (anyone with a CPU more than 2+ years old). I see 10% US market share within 5 years. :)

[digitalbiker]

I think switching to Intel is helping Apple dispel this argument. Before Apple was captive to the Megahertz Myth, but now that Macs are using the same CPUs as PCs, for most casual consumers this will hopefully translate to acceptance that Macs get more or less the same performance as PCs (I am talking casual consumers not gamers which are a small fraction of the overall consumer market).

Yes, but Apple also needs to keep pace with the introduction of new cpus.

Right now Apple is already falling behind by not bringing the line up-to-date with Core 2 Duo chips and better GPU card offerings.

Also I think the S...L...O...W Finder is really hurting Apple. I am hoping that Leopard addresses the carbon finder and gets it up to speed.

New users click on the windows "Start button" and a menu instantly appears. They scroll over an arrow and a submenu instantly appears. Then they move to an Apple machine. They hold the button down over the documents folder on the dock. (1...2....3...) a menu appears. Then they move up the menu to say a music folder (1....2....3...) and the file list appears.

These are the first impresssions! 99% of people walk away from macs with equivalent cpus to a windows box thinking that it is slow because of Finder. :mad:

[chabig]

Right now Apple is already falling behind by not bringing the line up-to-date with Core 2 Duo chips and better GPU card offerings.
Right. The Core 2 Duo's have been out how long...a month perhaps, and Apple is falling behind?

[mkrishnan]

and when people realize that to get the most out of Vista they will need a new machine (anyone with a CPU more than 2+ years old). I see 10% US market share within 5 years. :)

One can always hope. But when has this ever NOT been true for a Microsoft operating system? Windows 95 ran poorly on computers released when 3.1 was out. Windows XP had compatibility issues with many Win 98 boxes. Etc, etc. This has always been true for them. The only difference now is how long XP has been out without being significantly updated.

[JONNYCHO]

Right. The Core 2 Duo's have been out how long...a month perhaps, and Apple is falling behind?
Unless they start giving thier software for free then they have no chance people can choose a good Windows on a pc or pay loads for a mac. Or they could just use Linux. Linux will probably beat both of them in the near future when they get more software included. I know personally I will be switching from Apple to linux on my pc in about 2 weeks when I can get everything backed up safely so I will have Linux and windows on 2 hdd's from this point there is no point in going back to mac since you can get everything you want in linux for free

[twoodcc]

i think this is great news. the more mac sales, the better

[Donnacha]

Right. The Core 2 Duo's have been out how long...a month perhaps, and Apple is falling behind?

Uh, yeah, I'd say they're falling pretty far behind actually.

Practically every student in my media studies class was lined up to by fully-loaded MacBook Pro's - the semester began in September but they were willing to hang on until October for the "imminent" C2D MBP. October arrived but no laptop C2D, so, around 80 potential Apple customers now have shiny new Dell C2Ds. Dell gave them a great discount, too.

Apple needs to realise that potential switchers aren't willing to eat quite as much ***** as long-time Apple fans like us.

[darwen]

I'm becoming sure that however many Macs Apple sells, that market share figure will never climb above the magic 5% limit.

Does saying that make me one of those Mac Zealots I keep hearing about?

No, I kind of agree.

I think the increase in sales is because of the new MacBook... it is just right for everybody!

[Apple Shmapple]

People with PCs must not leave their houses much...I've been to coffee shops and airports all over, and it seems about half of the laptops I see are Apple.

Thats because many, many people purchase Apple computers for the same reason they buy designer jeans or luxury cars- they want to be SEEN with it.

You really think anyone would pay more for a luxury car if they couldn't impress others with it?? Any car can get you from A to B, and most do it with an equal level of dependability. It's convincing those with low self esteem to spend more than they have to just to make themselves feel better about themselves that has helped luxury automobiles.....and Apple.

I don't think many on this board bought an Apple for that reason, but there are millions out there that did. And you can find most of them in public attempting to "strut their stuff".

[topgun072003]

I concurr. Almost every concert I go to now, I see a MacBook on stage. I see mac notebooks everywhere. One thing I hate is when i see people dissuading potential buyers away from macintoshes, simply because Windows is the more common operating system, when most of the time, these are new computer buyers and wouldn't be able to use Wwindows in the first place.

the only reason you're seeing them now, is because you're noticing them because you have one or want one. Before that the Macs were still on stage its just that you didn't care so they didn't stand out. That goes for everyone...of course you see a lot of macs...you want to. The market share tells the truth.

[Sinsinnati]

IMHO, it still is a marketing issue. Mac-ads on Dutch TV?? Most people don't even know Apple make the iPods! (:eek: ) If they see an iMac, some even call it the "iPod-computer", but have no idea it can do stuff their PC can do too.


LOL, I can see someone saying that.

[TheLandOfSmeg]

Uh, yeah, I'd say they're falling pretty far behind actually.

Practically every student in my media studies class was lined up to by fully-loaded MacBook Pro's - the semester began in September but they were willing to hang on until October for the "imminent" C2D MBP. October arrived but no laptop C2D, so, around 80 potential Apple customers now have shiny new Dell C2Ds. Dell gave them a great discount, too.

Apple needs to realise that potential switchers aren't willing to eat quite as much ***** as long-time Apple fans like us.

So very true. I am one of those waiting for C2D, but the term has started and I'm still waiting. I am a student developer, and if they wait much longer I will get a Dell. I think about getting the Dell everyday but my heart has been set on the MacBook Pro.

Apple are losing many sales by not offering the cutting edge. Wasn't the point of the Intel switch to have Portable 64-bit offerings that IBM could not deliver with the G5?

[djlu]

I can. The iPod halo doesn't work without going hand in hand with the Apple Stores. If people are buying their iPods from shops that don't stock Macs, their opinions on Macs never change. If they buy an iPod from an Apple Store and see Macs all around doing everything their Windows computer can do and more, they become more open to buying a Mac next time a computer purchase comes round.

Apple need to open more international Stores if they want the worldwide share to increase.

I agree with this statement. It would be interesting to see the percentages in countries that have an Apple Store as opposed to those that don't.

I think another factor could be that a lot of new computers are being bought in China and India which are very cost concious cause the standard of living is still pretty low. I would bet Apple's share in these markets is under 1%.

Doug

[technicolor]

Thats because many, many people purchase Apple computers for the same reason they buy designer jeans or luxury cars- they want to be SEEN with it.

You really think anyone would pay more for a luxury car if they couldn't impress others with it?? Any car can get you from A to B, and most do it with an equal level of dependability. It's convincing those with low self esteem to spend more than they have to just to make themselves feel better about themselves that has helped luxury automobiles.....and Apple.

I don't think many on this board bought an Apple for that reason, but there are millions out there that did. And you can find most of them in public attempting to "strut their stuff".
You must have never driven a luxury car?

LMAO

Getting you to the same point is not the purpose, hell a bus can do that ..why dont all of us low self esteem car drivers just get on the darn bus, apple shmapple?! I mean doesnt a bus get you the same places as a car?

What a load of crock.

[digitalbiker]

So very true. I am one of those waiting for C2D, but the term has started and I'm still waiting. I am a student developer, and if they wait much longer I will get a Dell. I think about getting the Dell everyday but my heart has been set on the MacBook Pro.

Apple are losing many sales by not offering the cutting edge. Wasn't the point of the Intel switch to have Portable 64-bit offerings that IBM could not deliver with the G5?

In addition to those waiting from the school crowd, there is the christmas buying crowd waiting just around the corner.

I really believe that Apple is going to arrogantly keep to their same slow update cycle despite switching to Intel. This means we probably won't see Core 2 Duo and better GPUs in MacBook /MacBook Pros / mini until MacWorld SF 2007.

Apple really misses the boat by not having up-to-date new product available before the holiday buying season.

[technicolor]

In addition to those waiting from the school crowd, there is the christmas buying crowd waiting just around the corner.

I really believe that Apple is going to arrogantly keep to their same slow update cycle despite switching to Intel. This means we probably won't see Core 2 Duo and better GPUs in MacBook /MacBook Pros / mini until MacWorld SF 2007.

Apple really misses the boat by not having up-to-date new product available before the holiday buying season.

Most people do not care or even know what sort of chip or gpu is inside their computers. People here should stop deluding themselves into thinking they are the average consumer and somehow Apple is shooting themselves in the foot by not catering to them.

[AidenShaw]

Thats because many, many people purchase Apple computers for the same reason they buy designer jeans or luxury cars- they want to be SEEN with it. ... And you can find most of them in public attempting to "strut their stuff".
LOL.

That probably explains the white ear buds as well.

[Thanatoast]

Yes, but Apple also needs to keep pace with the introduction of new cpus.

Right now Apple is already falling behind by not bringing the line up-to-date with Core 2 Duo chips and better GPU card offerings.

Also I think the S...L...O...W Finder is really hurting Apple. I am hoping that Leopard addresses the carbon finder and gets it up to speed.

New users click on the windows "Start button" and a menu instantly appears. They scroll over an arrow and a submenu instantly appears. Then they move to an Apple machine. They hold the button down over the documents folder on the dock. (1...2....3...) a menu appears. Then they move up the menu to say a music folder (1....2....3...) and the file list appears.

These are the first impresssions! 99% of people walk away from macs with equivalent cpus to a windows box thinking that it is slow because of Finder. :mad:
Why navigate large amounts of poorly-labeled menus and sub-menus when what you need is on the dock?

Even so, I've never clicked on a folder and gone to get a cup of coffee. That only happens on my friends' pc's.

[QuarterSwede]

So very true. I am one of those waiting for C2D, but the term has started and I'm still waiting. I am a student developer, and if they wait much longer I will get a Dell. I think about getting the Dell everyday but my heart has been set on the MacBook Pro.

Apple are losing many sales by not offering the cutting edge. Wasn't the point of the Intel switch to have Portable 64-bit offerings that IBM could not deliver with the G5?
You are obviously not trying to switch because of OS X. For me, I couldn't stand Windows or Linux (too complicated to be any good) anymore.

Also, I'm not understanding the slow Finder thing either. When I first click on the Documents folder it pops up after no more than 1/2 second on a PowerBook and after each time thereafter its instant (cached). Have you used one recently? I mean, on a MacBook clicking on Safari on first launch is about as fast as it can get. Click and, as Jobs says, "boom" its there.

[swingerofbirch]

I think "Macs are slow" has to do with my belief that Macs last longer and therefore there are lots of old ones sitting around in schools. Think about a Mac that is 5 years old and a PC that is 5 years old. One stays a whole lot more usable than the other!

Also, if people are buying $299-399 budget PCs, yes they will sell more. They will also sell them more often! How long do you think someone will keep a computer that costs $300 versus one that costs $1,000-$1,200?

[FF_productions]

I think "Macs are slow" has to do with my belief that Macs last longer and therefore there are lots of old ones sitting around in schools. Think about a Mac that is 5 years old and a PC that is 5 years old. One stays a whole lot more usable than the other!


Yep

My school is filled with eMac G4s. Fastest one you can find in my school is 1.25 ghz. Not only are those machines slow, have no ram, they are also running under a SLOW server. So you can see why nobody likes Mac at my school.

[lyzardking]

One can always hope. But when has this ever NOT been true for a Microsoft operating system? Windows 95 ran poorly on computers released when 3.1 was out. Windows XP had compatibility issues with many Win 98 boxes. Etc, etc. This has always been true for them. The only difference now is how long XP has been out without being significantly updated.

Agreed.... but I think to most (at the time) the Mac OS wasn't even considered. Macs were "toys" only used by "artsy" folk :rolleyes:

The general view of the Mac has changed alot in ten years.

[SMM]

Increased marketshare is good, up to a point. Also, if world marketshare is staying the same, but the US is increasing, somewhere in the world apple is becoming less popular.

There is zero logic to that assertion. It sounds like it came from Fox News.

[digitalbiker]

Why navigate large amounts of poorly-labeled menus and sub-menus when what you need is on the dock?

Even so, I've never clicked on a folder and gone to get a cup of coffee. That only happens on my friends' pc's.

My comments were not about the merits of OS X vs Windows.

My principle point is "first impressions on a new user". It is well documented that Finder is extremely slow and posesses a lot of carbon code.

I have a G4 1.67 mhz 2005 PB. If I hold my cursor down on the documents folder of my dock it takes about 2 - 3 seconds before finder responds.

At work I use a P3 800 mhz windows 2000 machine. If I move the mouse over "Start ->My Documents" I get an instant response listing of files.

I have seen new users do the same thing at Fry's electonics, and walk away thinking that the Apple was a much slower computer than the Windows PC.

Apple really needs to re-write and optimize finder. It's slow and it leaves a negative impression of OS X on new users / switchers. Hopefully Leopard will take care of this but I haven't heard that confirmed.

[SMM]

I'm becoming sure that however many Macs Apple sells, that market share figure will never climb above the magic 5% limit.

Does saying that make me one of those Mac Zealots I keep hearing about?

Are you going to share your research? I would not say this qualifies you for a mac Zealot. I would think false prophet is closer to the truth.

[Cameront9]

Wait a minute...I think I see your problem. Just click once on you document folder and it will open very quickly.
what you are doing is simulating a right click (Click and hold the button down). this will bring up a Start menu-like interface).. I think if you right click this will happen instantly, too.... (or maybe it's option-click...I'm not on my mac at the moment, unfortunately). There is SUPPOSED to be a delay when you click and hold like that.

I've never seen Finder slow... and I'm on the same machine as you are.

(of course I may have completely misread this and be totally wrong, in which case I would ask what apps you have open, how much memory is on the machine, etc.)

My comments were not about the merits of OS X vs Windows.


I have a G4 1.67 mhz 2005 PB. If I hold my cursor down on the documents folder of my dock it takes about 2 - 3 seconds before finder responds.

[digitalbiker]

Agreed.... but I think to most (at the time) the Mac OS wasn't even considered. Macs were "toys" only used by "artsy" folk :rolleyes:

The general view of the Mac has changed alot in ten years.

I don't know about that! The comment about people perceiving the mac as a "toy" or used by "artsy folk" isn't too far from today's perception of the mac.

Even Apple markets the mac primarily based on the strength of "Home Entertainment", "Fun movies", "music", "photo albums", and "graphic arts".

Business today is still miopicaly tied to Windows for applications and Linux for servers.

Macs are much more prominent with artists, graphics designers, video professionals, and hollywood than they are in the general business population.

[scu]

It's interesting how large the magnitude of disconnect between the planned purchase estimates and the actual marketshare is for Macs (e.g.. 17-18% of people planning to buy computers state they will get a Mac, but only 5-7% actually do). In contrast the numbers later for HP seem relatively close to their actual marketshare numbers.

They don't offer an interpretation, but one tempting one is that people who are very strongly considering getting a Mac get dissuaded as they get immediately close to purchase, to a much greater extent than PC buyers.

That is a big issue.

We all want a big house or drive a BMW. But when we look at the numbers we realize we can not afford one or would rather save money and buy something else instead.

[Ninja Guidan]

One can always hope. But when has this ever NOT been true for a Microsoft operating system? Windows 95 ran poorly on computers released when 3.1 was out. Windows XP had compatibility issues with many Win 98 boxes. Etc, etc. This has always been true for them. The only difference now is how long XP has been out without being significantly updated.


Yep...and when has a new Windows OS that has issues with older hardware not prevented people from buying/upgrading to a new PC in order to run the new Windows...

[shadowlander]

I really believe that Apple is going to arrogantly keep to their same slow update cycle despite switching to Intel. This means we probably won't see Core 2 Duo and better GPUs in MacBook /MacBook Pros / mini until MacWorld SF 2007.

Apple really misses the boat by not having up-to-date new product available before the holiday buying season.
The way I see it, we don't know why Apple hasn't released an upgraded MBP. As quickly as they upgraded the iMac I feel like there's a good reason for the delay.

I'm not being blindly cavalier here...just going on what we've been seeing from them lately--their marketing people are far from stupid. It's easy to draw conclusions based on assumptions, especially when the silence from Cupertino is deafening. But I still bet there's a good reason.

Plus...they still have plenty of time before the holiday buying season.

If, when Apple finally does release the C2D MBP, it is a simple swapped processor, no revisions or other upgrades, I will stand corrected. :)

[lmalave]

Wait a minute...I think I see your problem. Just click once on you document folder and it will open very quickly.
what you are doing is simulating a right click (Click and hold the button down). this will bring up a Start menu-like interface).. I think if you right click this will happen instantly, too.... (or maybe it's option-click...I'm not on my mac at the moment, unfortunately). There is SUPPOSED to be a delay when you click and hold like that.

I've never seen Finder slow... and I'm on the same machine as you are.

(of course I may have completely misread this and be totally wrong, in which case I would ask what apps you have open, how much memory is on the machine, etc.)

Nevertheless, if one user is using the dock this way (and a Mac user at that), that means there are many others out there. And that means that a lifetime windows user going to the Apple Store and using a Mac for the first time is going to try to use the dock this way. They are going to click on the leftmost icon on the Dock, the Finder icon, expecting it to work just like the Start menu.

Maybe now that Apple trackpads have 2-finger right click, this feature of the dock should just be disabled by default if OS X detects that you are using a MacBook/Pro, or have a mouse plugged in that has a right mouse button.

[pink-pony115]

Yep

My school is filled with eMac G4s. Fastest one you can find in my school is 1.25 ghz. Not only are those machines slow, have no ram, they are also running under a SLOW server. So you can see why nobody likes Mac at my school.

That is the same deal at my school! It's a shame our schools are "mac ghetto". :p

[wyatt23]

ouch, my lab at binghamton, is filled with 17" 1.8 G5's with some ram to boot.

tho, something is amiss with the server situation, because logging on the machine for the first time takes forever. each time after that it's a breeze. but switch the computer and same thing. oh well, technology will be technology.

[iMikeT]

The more this world switches from Windoze to Mac, the better.

[digitalbiker]

Wait a minute...I think I see your problem. Just click once on you document folder and it will open very quickly.
what you are doing is simulating a right click (Click and hold the button down). this will bring up a Start menu-like interface).. I think if you right click this will happen instantly, too.... (or maybe it's option-click...I'm not on my mac at the moment, unfortunately). There is SUPPOSED to be a delay when you click and hold like that.

I've never seen Finder slow... and I'm on the same machine as you are.

(of course I may have completely misread this and be totally wrong, in which case I would ask what apps you have open, how much memory is on the machine, etc.)

No, I already knew to cntl-click. I originally meant right click on the documents folder. I guess I have a lot of folders because it takes mine forever to open. I have 1 GB of ram and things do get sanppier once something is cached but it is still painfully slow.

It also takes awhile for my system to open windows with many folders or files in them.

I have always thought OS X finder was slow. OS 9 always seemed snappier and windows has a much snappier GUI. I am just hoping that Leopard fixes these issues.

[SheriR]

So very true. I am one of those waiting for C2D (snipped)

Another hand raising here as a current Windows user who is holding out for a C2D. I'm dying to lay my hands on a 17" MBP, but will not buy before they go to at least that upgrade.

If it takes much longer I might as well wait until after the first of the year, or change plans and stick myself with another PC. I really, really don't want to do that, but I need a new semi-portable system.

[FF_productions]

That is the same deal at my school! It's a shame our schools are "mac ghetto". :p

The eMac G4's are new this year though!

Only a few of the labs had eMacs, last year it was all iMac G3's!!!

The sad part, is presenting a PowerPoint in class, and having to log-in with a G3 iMac, and try to present something, just to find out it is as slow as a turtle.

They really need to pick up some new iMacs.

[auxplage]

There's something strange about coffee shops and Mac laptops. They seem to attract the same crowd. Hanging out in coffee bars toying on a Macbook - it does have a certain, almost clicheed, image, doesn't it?

Yes, it does, because I am one of those people. :)

Market share is overrated. As long as Apple continues its 2-5% share, they are fine.

[Tehy]

Great news! :)

[iBorg20181]

Right. The Core 2 Duo's have been out how long...a month perhaps, and Apple is falling behind?

Well, C2Ds have been shipping for that long, and Apple is the only notebook manufacturer who has not even announced! (Lenovo's announcement Monday left Apple as the sole hold-out.)

So, yes, they are "falling behind." (And that's if they announce within the next couple of weeks - if they wait until MWSF, it's just embarassing!)

:(

iBorg

[iBorg20181]

Market share is overrated. As long as Apple continues its 2-5% share, they are fine.

What planet are you from?!?!

2-5% market share is "fine" as long as you don't need developers, application programs, component parts for new products (why should Intel, Ati or NVidia sell any of their "hot" new products for very long to such a tiny niche market!), compatibility with other electronic devices (TiVos, printers, cameras, etc.), ... the list goes on and on! (And don't even get into gaming, which still drives alot of computer sales!)

:rolleyes:

iBorg

[digitalbiker]

Well, C2Ds have been shipping for that long, and Apple is the only notebook manufacturer who has not even announced! (Lenovo's announcement Monday left Apple as the sole hold-out.)

So, yes, they are "falling behind." (And that's if they announce within the next couple of weeks - if they wait until MWSF, it's just embarassing!)

:(

iBorg

I agree and I think this is a big deal because this sets the tone for how Apple plans to update systems in the future.

Will they update to keep pace with the PC manufacturors? Or will they stick to the same old product update cycle that they established with the PPC.(ie updates around MWSF, WWDC, Paris Expo, etc.)

The jury is still out but if the MacBook Pro core 2 duo isn't released prior to Thanksgiving then they might as well wait until MWSF and announce a major re-design with santa rosa chipset and new GPUs. After all it will be too late for the holiday buying season anyway.

[Apple Shmapple]

You must have never driven a luxury car?

LMAO

Getting you to the same point is not the purpose, hell a bus can do that ..why dont all of us low self esteem car drivers just get on the darn bus, apple shmapple?! I mean doesnt a bus get you the same places as a car?

What a load of crock.

Uh oh. Looks like I struck a nerve, right where it hurts (the ego), to a luxury car driver.

Acura's are made with Honda parts. So why don't they cost as much as Hondas? Because you're paying for the "prestige" of showing off to other people how you can afford a higher car payment than them.

Ever read The Millionaire Next Door? It's a book about fiscal responsibility and the traits of those that have it and the traits of those that don't. 95% of millionaires in the U.S. don't drive luxury cars. They have more sense than that. It's the wannabees and people that place ego above fiscal responsibility that spend more than they have to on an automobile.

Simple as that. Don't like it, take it up with the PhD's that researched and wrote the book. Sorry to call you out on why exactly you pulled the trigger on your ill-advised purchase. I'm not coming on here saying I'm perfect. I have my flaws too. It's just that one of them isn't the overpowering desire to impress others with my material goods at all costs.

[rahrens]

What planet are you from?!?!

2-5% market share is "fine" as long as you don't need developers, application programs, component parts for new products (why should Intel, Ati or NVidia sell any of their "hot" new products for very long to such a tiny niche market!), compatibility with other electronic devices (TiVos, printers, cameras, etc.), ... the list goes on and on! (And don't even get into gaming, which still drives alot of computer sales!)

:rolleyes:

iBorg

I don't know, but Intel seems to be selling Apple all the processors they want, and even are working with them to produce special applications for Apple's needs, NVidea seems to be selling cards to them, too...

Apple has been even more compatible with periperals then Windows ever dreamed of, tho TiVo for some reason IS a hold-out. But then there have always been companies that held out, and Apple gets by just fine.

The gaming market is one Apple apparantly isn't concerned about yet, and probably won't be for a while, at least until they are well into gains in the consumer market... which has more potential than the gamers do.

So, yeah, 5% IS fine, which has been Apple's position for quite a while, after all, aren't they making money for their shareholders hand over fist?

What part of "record sales" isn't clear?:rolleyes:

[rahrens]

Uh oh. Looks like I struck a nerve, right where it hurts (the ego), to a luxury car driver.


...Sorry to call you out on why exactly you pulled the trigger on your ill-advised purchase. I'm not coming on here saying I'm perfect. I have my flaws too. It's just that one of them isn't the overpowering desire to impress others with my material goods at all costs.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't know about anybody else, but showing off never entered MY mind when I bought my Macs. I just like a computer I don't have to reinstall the OS for twice a year. Of course, you are free to ASSUME whatever you like about my attitude or motives, I don't care. I'm happy with my purchase, and don't feel it's ill-advised at all.

Yeah, there may be Mac owners with the attitude you speak of; in fact, I'll bet anything there are more than just a few. But most of the Mac owners I know just like how they work, and often struggle to make the payments.

The point is that Macs, like many luxury cars, are better engineered than the cheap models are, and therefore, work better, with a smoother experience and better handling characteristics. That isn't a controversial statement in the automotive world - there, it's pretty much known that you get what you pay for.

Then again, even there, you get the dorks that just like to argue...

[Queso]

Everyone on this site will have different reasons for why they use Macs. Certainly only a tiny minority are buying them to impress others.

[nplima]

I don't know, but Intel seems to be selling Apple all the processors they want, and even are working with them to produce special applications for Apple's needs, NVidea seems to be selling cards to them, too...[...]
The gaming market is one Apple apparantly isn't concerned about yet, and probably won't be for a while,[...]


One things that might make sense is that those 5% of users are mostly the same as they were some years ago, and those are people who are willing to spend some extra money, so it's good to have them onboard - I mean those people over there at the sub-forums for photography, design and music :)

From a Production point of view, not only Apple Computer buys a lot of chips (or other component) as they probably buy a lot of the same. On the contrary, a company like HP, buying components for 3 lines of products, with 10 models each might eventually sell 10 times more computers than Apple, but in fact get similar volume discounts in each component.

As for gaming, 2 thoughts: it's too late to compete for the atention of developers working with DirectX, and it's possibly too late to compete with Sony, Nintendo and MS on the console part of that market. In the end it makes sense: a Mac will work nicely out of the box, a Nintendo will too, a PC gamer will expect some tinkering with settings before being able to get the optimal framerate. Those 5% of people who have been happy with Macs for so many years, and the thousands joining in late are likely to be happier with a Nintendo Wii than with 3 screenfulls of settings when they start up a computer game.

I don't know if these 5% are a comfortable place or not, I do wonder what is people's reasonable expectation for market growth, considering that the competing operating systems have much more to lose than to gain, and that overall Windows lags behind OS X.

[Gasu E.]

Increased marketshare is good, up to a point. Also, if world marketshare is staying the same, but the US is increasing, somewhere in the world apple is becoming less popular.


Not necessarily. This is likely due to very high growth in the PC market in several emerging economies; e.g., China, India. I am guessing the Mac is very weak there. This would explain the numbers without a loss of share in any particular country market.

[slffl]

Ya I'm going to rate this as a negative. The more people that start using macs, the worse everything is going to get (hw/sw quality, viruses)

[flopticalcube]

Macs are now essentially well-thought-out PCs so hardware interaction will become less and less of an issue in the future. As long as Apple maintains sufficient market share to entice mainstream product manufacturers to write drivers, I see nothing wrong in being the top 5%. :D

[Seasought]

Why navigate large amounts of poorly-labeled menus and sub-menus when what you need is on the dock?

Even so, I've never clicked on a folder and gone to get a cup of coffee. That only happens on my friends' pc's.

Oh snap. :D

[Seasought]

You are obviously not trying to switch because of OS X. For me, I couldn't stand Windows or Linux (too complicated to be any good) anymore.


Linux has come a long way with regard to ease of installation, and the open source community has extensive documentation on how to do everything from installing a different window/desktop manager to setting up an email server. I'm not so sure Linux can rise to the level of ease of use that OS X has without sacrificing a good deal of power and flexibility.

Still, I (as a Linux user) can see why people prefer OS X over fighting through using a Linux distrib. OS X is engineered to be easier to use overall (and yes it does sacrafice some flexibility to an extent).

Just firing my two cents out there...not trying to turn this into a Linux war or what not. :)

[lmalave]

Uh oh. Looks like I struck a nerve, right where it hurts (the ego), to a luxury car driver.

Acura's are made with Honda parts. So why don't they cost as much as Hondas? Because you're paying for the "prestige" of showing off to other people how you can afford a higher car payment than them.

Ever read The Millionaire Next Door? It's a book about fiscal responsibility and the traits of those that have it and the traits of those that don't. 95% of millionaires in the U.S. don't drive luxury cars. They have more sense than that. It's the wannabees and people that place ego above fiscal responsibility that spend more than they have to on an automobile.

Simple as that. Don't like it, take it up with the PhD's that researched and wrote the book. Sorry to call you out on why exactly you pulled the trigger on your ill-advised purchase. I'm not coming on here saying I'm perfect. I have my flaws too. It's just that one of them isn't the overpowering desire to impress others with my material goods at all costs.

You're making a straw man argument by bringing up the Honda/Acura comparison. That's not what people have been arguing. People have been arguing that there *is* something unique about the Mac product *itself* that isn't tied to the branding or the perceived "prestige".

As I mentioned before, it's like comparing a fully loaded Ford Taurus with an entry level BMW. Driving a Ford Taurus is never going to *feel* like driving a BMW. The handling is going to feel totally different. Believe or not, some car buyers are loyal to a particular brand and are willing to pay more, for reasons that have nothing to do with prestige. I mentioned BMW's handling but it could be something else like: safety (e.g. Volvo, at least in the old days), reliability (e.g. Lexus, consistently top rated by Consumer Reports), comfort/smooth ride (e.g. Mercedes). The point is, you're missing the point if you think a Mac's appeal is only as a status symbol.

[ziwi]

THe disparity between the folks who say I am considering it and those who actually get one may be the initial sticker shock. They do not look at the entire package they are getting versus the laptop or desktop is how much??? not realizing that they get alot more out of the box than they do with the PC alternative.

[whooleytoo]

There is zero logic to that assertion. It sounds like it came from Fox News.

Not really. The world market share (which, presumably, includes the US) is static. Apple's share in the US, has increased. Therefore, the market share in (some) other countries has decreased.

[FFTT]

I've always questioned market share figures.

It would be much more accurate to post comparative sales from THIS YEAR
as opposed to overall sales from the past combined.

[digitalbiker]

I've always questioned market share figures.

It would be much more accurate to post comparative sales from THIS YEAR
as opposed to overall sales from the past combined.

Market share IS based on the current sales! It has nothing to do with how many people are actually using Macs vs PCs from long past purchases.

It is based soley on the current sales figures for Apple sales vs total computer sales.

[ahti]

Not really. The world market share (which, presumably, includes the US) is static. Apple's share in the US, has increased. Therefore, the market share in (some) other countries has decreased.

But that unlikely translates to "less popular", as the original poster expressed it.
It could be, as Gasu E proposed, that there is a very high growth of low-price PC sales in emerging eastern countries.
Also, the numbers given are (probably) not very precise.

[Apple Shmapple]

You're making a straw man argument by bringing up the Honda/Acura comparison. That's not what people have been arguing. People have been arguing that there *is* something unique about the Mac product *itself* that isn't tied to the branding or the perceived "prestige".

As I mentioned before, it's like comparing a fully loaded Ford Taurus with an entry level BMW. Driving a Ford Taurus is never going to *feel* like driving a BMW. The handling is going to feel totally different. Believe or not, some car buyers are loyal to a particular brand and are willing to pay more, for reasons that have nothing to do with prestige. I mentioned BMW's handling but it could be something else like: safety (e.g. Volvo, at least in the old days), reliability (e.g. Lexus, consistently top rated by Consumer Reports), comfort/smooth ride (e.g. Mercedes). The point is, you're missing the point if you think a Mac's appeal is only as a status symbol.

I'm not contending that the Macs increasing popularity is solely caused from a perceived "prestige" factor, but that is certainly helping matters. And a trip to your local snooty coffee shop is ground zero for the people who purchase products solely to be seen with them.

Like I said earlier, most of the people here are mac diehards - not fad followers. But I am saying that the majority of the boost Apple is experiencing IS from fad jumpers. Like it or not, it is what it is and it's exactly what Apple marketing wanted to happen.

[slffl]

I'm not contending that the Macs increasing popularity is solely caused from a perceived "prestige" factor, but that is certainly helping matters. And a trip to your local snooty coffee shop is ground zero for the people who purchase products solely to be seen with them.

Like I said earlier, most of the people here are mac diehards - not fad followers. But I am saying that the majority of the boost Apple is experiencing IS from fad jumpers. Like it or not, it is what it is and it's exactly what Apple marketing wanted to happen.

Give me a break on the snooty coffee shop. I see as many PCs at coffee shops as I do macs, and why are coffee drinkers 'snooty' to you?

Also, where are you getting this 'switcher' data from?

[bimmerkid]

So thankful that I purchased $100,000 of Apple stock in '96 @ $18.90 a share :-D

[bimmerkid]

I'm not contending that the Macs increasing popularity is solely caused from a perceived "prestige" factor, but that is certainly helping matters. And a trip to your local snooty coffee shop is ground zero for the people who purchase products solely to be seen with them.

Like I said earlier, most of the people here are mac diehards - not fad followers. But I am saying that the majority of the boost Apple is experiencing IS from fad jumpers. Like it or not, it is what it is and it's exactly what Apple marketing wanted to happen.

I live in the SF and I know how you feel! I'll walk into starbucks on Union street (Lambos, benzs, bmws, range rovers, and the ast. Martins parked everywhere) and people are just constantly looking at my computer... I'm sorry that my fraternal twin is a mac and I'm really thankful that I would never put up with windows... ever! I'm not a converted I'm a converter... Mac Plus is my brother and my new macbook pro is my brother from another mother named intel :D . I like the looks of jealousy and I hope people do go out and buy a mac just because of that. I know jobs said the war between Microsoft was over in the '97 Macworld keynote but every die hard mac fan wants to rub bill gates in their own scat. We are better and we are more efficient! I will agree that it is a sad reason to be materialistic and purchase a mac just for stature but it's better them purchasing a mac than a dell :-D