I'm done with Apple...

[vv-tim]

So I sent in my MBP to get the RSD problem fixed... along with the "pitting" of the handrest and peeling up of the topcase while it was there.

Of course... they blame me immediately for all the problems. They claim that accidental "fall damage" caused the topcase to peel apart and that the case was misaligned... which apparently caused bad heat distribution which is causing the RSD issue.

I guess they just pull at anything they can to cast the blame elsewhere... if they don't fix the shut down issue I'm gonna go nuts. Either way this is my last Apple. Dell doesn't treat their customers like this... and they dont't charge 2k either.

[njmac]

You should sell your MBP and get a Dell.

[Subiklim]

You should sell your MBP and get a Dell.


I'll second that. If you did a bit of research, both problems are issues with some macbooks. You should not have purchased it had you thought the problems would happen to you

Also, if this is enough to make you stop using macs, you probably shouldn't have switched in the first place.

[meepm00pmeep]

they shouldn't be trying to blame you in the first place and i hope you resolve your issues with them. but don't single out Apple as a whole from this bad experience... you just happened to get the short end of the stick this time around

[ericssonboi]

Give Steve Jobs and email.. Higher relations department should be able to do something about this..

[indigoflowAS]

I don't see why Apple would not fix the shut down issue, the cosmetic stuff might be harder to convince them to do unfortunately. But there is no reason to believe they will return a shut down prone MBP to you, i think.

By the way, can we see pictures of the pitting and peeling? That is something that has worried me about the MBP as they age (similar to the Aluminum Powerbooks).

I hope this works out for you, I guess different techs are just different techs, some are jerks, some are nice, but some are also nice but become jerks (in your head) when you don't get what you want.

[Sesshi]

You hit the nail on the head there. If you did spend $2K on a Dell laptop you would actually get an engineer on-site, it'd be insured for accidental damage and it wouldn't be away for a week unless it was something very serious.

This is what makes me hesitant about buying Apple gear nowadays and what makes me take a crack at OSX86 every now and again (no it doesn't work properly, alas).

Lovely OS, pretty but less-than-it-should-be hardware, support service - or the lack of - that defies belief (from this 'used to corporate HP/Dell support' person).

I was reading a post elsewhere where someone was saying that they were impressed that their iMac got turned around in a week. Dell had a misbehaving memory fan on one of the Precisions fixed the next day, on-site. *That* is support I expect for paying Applecare prices, and while I don't mind paying the Apple premium for hardware, despite the superior design I do expect the stuff to be built a whole lot better than it is. My MBP deformed, for Christ's sake.

Which makes me a fool for wanting a Mac Pro, but damn - I really want a good excuse to buy one :o

Either way, you've just got to either follow through with pressing for your defective machine to be replaced or refunded, depending on how much you love OS X. The customer service department can be reasoned with, although I had to turn to a lawyer for quick results.

[meepm00pmeep]

that's the sole reason i bought an Apple keyboard and mouse, so that after extended use there won't be much wear & tear done to my MBP, if you want it to be in immaculate condition i'd advise you to do the same

[Eraserhead]

....Talking about Apple Support and saying how much better Dell is....

Doesn't Procare (http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/) get you this stuff?

[Sesshi]

Doesn't Procare (http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/) get you this stuff?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Have you tried it?

[Eraserhead]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Have you tried it?
no, I'm too cheap/poor. It looks quite good from the website (but obviously that's biased :rolleyes: ) what's it like?

[indigoflowAS]

if you want it to be in immaculate condition i'd advise you to do the same
I guess it is unfortunate that to keep it's divine and virgin status, you have to essentially view it from afar and admire. A separate keyboard is a good call, especially if you use some hardcore graphics programs that take advantage of the F-keys. There are adhesive wrist protectors that prevent all our grimey palm grease from getting on the aluminum as well, and iSkin just released a revised silicon keyboard membrane.

Professional Apple machines are really delicate, I hate to say. There may be a reason why Apple uses sturdy plastic on its entry level machines (more likely to see rougher treatment).

[njmac]

Just out of curiosity, what were you hoping to get from this thread?

[meepm00pmeep]

yah iSkin and the like is a good call if you want to keep your MBP from peeling...

and i use the keyboard a lot with programming and chatting so it's well worth it, than to have wear & tear on my keys, which is inevitable

as for the RSD, they shouldn't question you about it... it's a known issue and any 'genious' should know that

[Sesshi]

Just out of curiosity, what were you hoping to get from this thread?

Hugs?

[WildCowboy]

Just out of curiosity, what were you hoping to get from this thread?

A reaction?

[Sesshi]

We all have to poke the cowpat every now and again. Especially when there's something really bugging you. Like a crappy MBP :p

[njmac]

I find it so funny that when people have a bad experience with Apple, they seem to always have had GREAT experiences with Dell. Whenever someone says something positive about Apple in these threads is automatically "fanboy" :p

Its almost never "I just want to vent", or "I'm frustrated, maybe you can give me advice" its "I hate apple..... and Dell is so much: cheaper, better, better support, better specs, better user experience... and XP really isn't that bad, especially since Tiger is so unstable" :rolleyes:

[Sesshi]

no, I'm too cheap/poor. It looks quite good from the website (but obviously that's biased :rolleyes: ) what's it like?

It's actually fine if you want the supplementary features provided you can get booked for them. But as a support boost? *&%$£@# hopeless.

My take is that they should charge more to keep the riff-raff off the Genius bars. Sorry to sound elitist but £80 is an indeterminate figure. Charge a £300 ~ £400 extension per Applecare and get me a guaranteed genius booking on that day with a guaranteed same-day fix, and I'll happily pay it.

This is what I don't understand about Apple support. Dell/HP have options so depending on your critical needs you can request (and pay for) the support you need - and get it! Apple has just the same indifferent, overpriced cover be you a student (no offense to students... well, not much :p ) or someone who actually relies on his IT hardware.

[KevKaos]

Dell doesn't treat their customers like this... and they dont't charge 2k either.

They don't ????? Are you sure about that ????? You may want to check around to make sure what you are saying is true. I have had nothing but Dells in our house, and IMHO Dells support is no better than anyone elses.

Last time I had a problem with a Dell and called their tech support, they told me that I would need to set all my hardware and software back to its original configuration (as delivered). I said that I had an aftermarket video card and asked if they expected me to swap the video card back to the original. They said yes, but there was no way I could do that as the original video card had fried itself. Of course I should have claimed the fried video card through Dell, but I just went ahead and upgraded it.

On the other hand, I have a refurbished iPod that I just got a month ago. I was having problems upgrading it to version 1.2 Applecare was extremely helpful and did talk me through the problem and I got it fixed with their help.

Some of the generalization made on this site are really unbelievable, not to mention sometimes extremely biased and unfair.

[Sesshi]

They don't ????? Are you sure about that ????? You may want to check around to make sure what you are saying is true. I have had nothing but Dells in our house, and IMHO Dells support is no better than anyone elses.

Last time I had a problem with a Dell and called their tech support, they told me that I would need to set all my hardware and software back to its original configuration (as delivered). I said that I had an aftermarket video card and asked if they expected me to swap the video card back to the original. They said yes, but there was no way I could do that as the original video card had fried itself. Of course I should have claimed the fried video card through Dell, but I just went ahead and upgraded it.

On the other hand, I have a refurbished iPod that I just got a month ago. I was having problems upgrading it to version 1.2 Applecare was extremely helpful and did talk me through the problem and I got it fixed with their help.

Some of the generalization made on this site are really unbelievable, not to mention sometimes extremely biased and unfair.

It's posts like this that really annoy me over this site which seems to be filled with irrational fanboys. Granted, there are many, many people here I can conduct a fun and intelligent conversation on a variety of topics but apparently not over slighting Apple.

I presume a lot of you have considered Applecare. A lot of you probably went for it. With your previous Dell, did you ever pay for the equivalent-cost service? Because that's what I do always. First-line support is always slightly annoying with any vendor, but if you purchase the extended aftercare services off these vendors you get response times and fix times off HP, Dell and Lenovo which makes Applecare look like a complete joke.

[skunk]

What puzzles me is how on earth Apple get so many plaudits for their service in surveys. I guess most respondents are home users, who are used to getting the runaround from every manufacturer.

[aristobrat]

if you purchase the extended aftercare services off these vendors you get response times and fix times off HP, Dell and Lenovo which makes Applecare look like a complete joke.
Your Dell support experiences seem to be IT/business related, whereas KevKaos's sounded like a home customer.

The support that Dell gives medium & large business/gov't, business and healthcare customers is different from the support that home customers receive.

[skunk]

Your Dell support experiences seem to be IT/business related, whereas KevKaos's sounded like a home customer.

The support that Dell gives medium & large business/gov't, business and healthcare customers is different from the support that home customers receive.As I suspected...

[Sesshi]

Nope. You can upgrade the service as a domestic user too, and pay about the same as Applecare.

I don't dispute that my fundamental problem with Apple is as a business user, which is any I'll never consider a business Apple machine unless they offer more options in support. But what I said applies just as much to home users as business users. It's just that people have this odd filter when comparing Dell with Apple, even as owners of both. They will, somewhat bizarrely, directly compare their premium piece of Apple kit with a bottom-dollar Dell with no additional support options.

[skunk]

Nope. You can upgrade the service as a domestic user too, and pay about the same as Applecare.I agree that Apple should offer a choice of levels of service. Taking the computer in is simply not a reasonable option if you're using it to earn your crust.

[MIDI_EVIL]

I agree that Apple should offer a choice of levels of service. Taking the computer in is simply not a reasonable option if you're using it to earn your crust.

They do, they have pro support, hardware and software, for people who earn a crust.

Rich.

[skunk]

They do, they have pro support, hardware and software, for people who earn a crust.

Rich.Pro Support seems to have an indifferent reputation round here.

[KevKaos]

It's posts like this that really annoy me over this site which seems to be filled with irrational fanboys. Granted, there are many, many people here I can conduct a fun and intelligent conversation on a variety of topics but apparently not over slighting Apple.

I presume a lot of you have considered Applecare. A lot of you probably went for it. With your previous Dell, did you ever pay for the equivalent-cost service? Because that's what I do always. First-line support is always slightly annoying with any vendor, but if you purchase the extended aftercare services off these vendors you get response times and fix times off HP, Dell and Lenovo which makes Applecare look like a complete joke.

What the F is your problem? I didn't bash Dell and say that I was done with them. I simply pointed out that in at least this particular case, Dell was no better than anyone else.

FYI, the ONLY Apple product that I own is my iPod. I have three Dells in my house and an E-machines laptop. I want to get an iMac, but I hardly think that makes me a Fanboy. To the contrary, you could easily be called a Dell fanboy, but that would just be childish now wouldn't it?

It seems to me that some people like to come in to an Apple related community and Troll for whatever reaction they can get. What's the matter, the game is no longer fair when someone without a biased opinion states a counter opinion (backed up with facts)?

You are way out of line on this one.

[Sesshi]

Nope, not in the least. Read your original post back, and read my responses since then.

[KevKaos]

Your Dell support experiences seem to be IT/business related, whereas KevKaos's sounded like a home customer.

The support that Dell gives medium & large business/gov't, business and healthcare customers is different from the support that home customers receive.


BINGO. You are correct, I was speaking in regards to a home situation.

Now if they want me to start on about the 10 laptops that my office bought a few years ago, I could. Here's a hint. 3 identical failures which required motherboard replacement. 3 out of 10 is a 33% failure rate. I don't know about you, but that is unexceptable. But you know what? We just bought 8 new Dell D610's that arrived last week. Fingers are crossed that we don't have a repeat of that sort again.

[skunk]

3 out of 10 is a 33% failure rate.Not to be too picky, but it's 30%. :)

[KevKaos]

Not to be too picky, but it's 30%. :)

You are correct, but I was on a rant. hehehe

Those laptops were a real thorn in my side, so they still get me worked up.

[tdhurst]

It's posts like this that really annoy me over this site which seems to be filled with irrational fanboys. Granted, there are many, many people here I can conduct a fun and intelligent conversation on a variety of topics but apparently not over slighting Apple.


You mean people on the Apple/Mac themed site ARE overly enthusiastic about their Macs? You DON'T say!

[Sesshi]

You mean people on the Apple/Mac themed site ARE overly enthusiastic about their Macs? You DON'T say!

I do realise I'm a bit of a fool for even trying to be even handed given my truly like-for-like experience on a board like this. But you can't blame a guy for trying... ?

[aristobrat]

Nope. You can upgrade the service as a domestic user too, and pay about the same as Applecare.
According to our Dell Enteprise sales rep, regardless of what level "home user" service you have, your calls are routed to entirely different call centers than medium & large business/gov't, business and healthcare. The different call centers each have different goals for hold time, when they're allowed to transfer you to a specialist, how far they'll deviate from their scripts if you're a technical user, etc.

While the SLA may be the same (next day on site service is next day on site service), what you have to go through to arrange it as a home user isn't the same as the big guys.

I say this as a US-based enterprised-sized IT shop employee that's owned several personal Dells over the years.

[Queso]

Just for clarification, the one time I've used AppleCare was for a replacement DVD-ROM drive on my old iMac G3 in 2000. An engineer visited within 48 hours of me booking the call and replaced the faulty drive in my home.

Do I take it this no longer happens?

[Sesshi]

Oh for sure aristobrat. I get to speak to Irish guys (with equally impenetrable accents, but we'll leave it at that) instead of Indians when making a support call on my Precisions.

The service level is however the same. Granted, the Inspiron / Dimension support treats you more of an idiot than the Latitude / Precision. But if you go through their troubleshooting routines then the service level is met. I also have the option of calling US support out of UK hours for telephone-based troubleshooting because I have extended support.

Just for clarification, the one time I've used AppleCare was for a replacement DVD-ROM drive on my old iMac G3 in 2000. An engineer visited within 48 hours of me booking the call and replaced the faulty drive in my home.

Do I take it this no longer happens?

It's never happened for me. It's always been a pickup and return. In a couple of cases they've had the temerity to ask for my credit card number before they'll send a spare part - so @#&*%$£ late that I actually bought spares myself from Cancom. I had the standard additional 3 year warranty on an Inspiron. When the PSU on that failed, they sent a replacement the next day - no further information required.

[WildCowboy]

Technically, onsite service is listed in the AppleCare terms as an option for some desktop machines if you are within 50 miles of one of their onsite repair locations, but Apple is the one who decides how your problem gets addressed. You might be able to talk them into onsite repair if you have extenuating circumstances, but they're going to do everything they can to have you use a cheaper option for them.

[theBB]

It is quite an arrogance with just a few cases of customer support under your belt to assume that you've seen everything either company has to offer. We purchased two desktops from Dell, both of which had harddisk failures. Our in house support did not show up for a week for one of those and that was our institutional support. 100% failure rate, awful customer support and no apologies, either.

Of course, everybody in those surveys who rate Apple higher than Dell are of course gullible foolish consumers. All of those surveys and rankings of quality are worthless as well. Pffft!...

[Sesshi]

It is quite an arrogance with just a few cases of customer support under your belt to assume that you've seen everything either company has to offer.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You've got me really steamed on this one guys by the sheer ignorance. I don't think I'm going to let this one go until the mods wade in.

[Queso]

It's never happened for me. It's always been a pickup and return. In a couple of cases they've had the temerity to ask for my credit card number before they'll send a spare part - so @#&*%$£ late that I actually bought spares myself from Cancom.
In which case, they've gone rather downhill on the support front. Mind you, if the build quality has dropped, the old Applecare service would see them eating into that $11 milliard dollars rather quickly.

Still, I remember being really impressed. Not good.

Of course, everybody in those surveys who rate Apple higher than Dell are of course gullible foolish consumers. All of those surveys and rankings of quality are worthless as well. Pffft!...
Or maybe those surveys are unfairly skewed in Apple's favour by people like me who rate according to what AppleCare used to be, not what it is now. We'll see in a few years. If Sesshi is right, Apple's rating will begin to tank soon enough.

[bearbo]

We purchased two desktops from Dell, both of which had harddisk failures

it amazes me that some people seems to have exceptionally high rate of failure on their machine... >10x higher than average rate of failure... does that, not at all, indicate there might be something wrong with how you use the machine?

[Sesshi]

In which case, they've gone rather downhill on the support front. Mind you, if the build quality has dropped, the old Applecare service would see them eating into that $11 milliard dollars rather quickly.

Still, I remember being really impressed. Not good.

Apart from a really troublesome Duo I had (on which one could argue it kept going wrong because the service messed it up all the time), I can't remember ONE of my main Macs going wrong until the time I stopped using them in the mid-90's due to professional requirements.

Back then as ever, I had the machines fully aftercare'd but as far as I was concerned, it was for that almost unthinkable moment when the machines went wrong.

I come back, buy a brace of machines and I'm treated to engineering quality and service level that makes a third-rate Windoze builder look good.

If Sesshi is right, Apple's rating will begin to tank soon enough.

Never underestimate the power of superior design (as opposed to engineering and service). You're seeing the effects of it right here already.

[lmalave]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You've got me really steamed on this one guys by the sheer ignorance. I don't think I'm going to let this one go until the mods wade in.

Except that the poster made a good point, in that you are comparing personal anecdotes impressions with published, widely accepted survey results. And the results were not about the quality of apple products. The results were *specifically* about CUSTOMER SERVICE?

So you think you know better than these survey results? You think you know better than the entire companies that are devoted to this type of research? You think you know better than the publication that publish this research?

So please, since you're committed to not putting this issue to rest, then answer me this:

Why should *anyone's* personal experiences refute a survey after survey after survey after survey, of thousands upon thousands of consumers, repeated year after year after year?

[Sesshi]

Except that the poster made a good point, in that you are comparing personal anecdotes impressions with published, widely accepted survey results. And the results were not about the quality of apple products. The results were *specifically* about CUSTOMER SERVICE?

So you think you know better than these survey results? You think you know better than the entire companies that are devoted to this type of research? You think you know better than the publication that publish this research?

So please, since you're committed to not putting this issue to rest, then answer me this:

Why should *anyone's* personal experiences refute a survey after survey after survey after survey, of thousands upon thousands of consumers, repeated year after year after year?

Yes, but do the surveys distinguish between people who purchase a Mac with Applecare and someone who buys a bare-bones Dell with no support?

[doctor pangloss]

It took me nearly 6 months to get satisfaction from apple with a defective powerbook.
I'm hoping the one I have now keeps ticking along. I just got a new battery on the recall.

The odds of getting a crappy machine out of the box seem inordinately high.

Once you have a good one they're great.

But the possible prospect of having to deal with apple service again keeps me from buying anything new. That and they aren't making anything that really compares to the 12" power book. The new MBP and the Macbooks are too big for my taste.

The new small sony viao sure is attractive.
I think apple dropped the ball not making a macbook that is more compact than the 12" ibook.

[lmalave]

Or maybe those surveys are unfairly skewed in Apple's favour by people like me who rate according to what AppleCare used to be, not what it is now. We'll see in a few years. If Sesshi is right, Apple's rating will begin to tank soon enough.

I somehow doubt this. The companies doing this consumer research are staking their professional reputations and entire value proposition on their accuracy. I'm sure they formulated their questions to be quite accurate, like only asking about the customer service / support experience *for a product purchased within the last year*.

Along those same lines, I saw a survey recently that said something like only 30% of Macs had to go in for repair within the first 2 years. Which sounds high but was the *lowest* in the industry. In fact, a tech analyst made a comment along the lines that it was "shockingly low". So not only do surveys show a better experience with customer support, but they show fewer reasons to even ask for customer support.

[Queso]

Why should *anyone's* personal experiences refute a survey after survey after survey after survey, of thousands upon thousands of consumers, repeated year after year after year?
Because a lot of Mac users frequently just give Apple the benefit of the doubt. Everybody's personal experiences should matter to Apple. I'm sure Bang and Olufsen view each and every customer as important. If Apple want to be the premium brand they market themselves as, they need to do the same.

[lmalave]

Yes, but do the surveys distinguish between people who purchase a Mac with Applecare and someone who buys a bare-bones Dell with no support?

I don't know, but how is this relevant in the grand scheme of things? You want to bring in what percentage of people buy which warranty now???? I really don't know what percentage of Dell consumer buyers buy the 3-year warranty vs. the default 1-year. But what does it matter? Maybe because Dell is trying to market itself as lowest-price, it doesn't push the buyer to buy the extended warranty, whereas Apple, more concerned about its reputation as a premium brand, markets its AppleCare more aggressively. And which consumers are ultimately happier? Apple's. But don't take my word for it - look at *all* the various survey results.

And I will point out that I speak from the perspective of someone who's owned both Dells and Apples. I am careless with my material belongings and really put my machines through a lot of abuse. I also don't bother to buy the AppleCare. And I feel a lot more confident in Apple's customer service than Dell's (at least while my iBook was still under warranty). And having a physical location that you can take you Mac to is a huge advantage.

Let me give you a specific example: On *both* my Inspiron and my iBook, I yanked on the power cord so many times that it became frayed and had exposed wire (this was in the pre-MagSafe days). With the iBook, i took it to the Genius Bar and showed them the power cord. They asked me "how did this happen?" and I mumbled something like "uh, I dunno, I just noticed it", even though I knew it was totally my fault. The Genius went to the back and got me a new cord, no questions asked (other than a small form I had to fill out). Now what would Dell do in this situation? Well, I'm actually not sure, since I didn't want the aggravation of having to call Dell for something which was clearly not a mechanical defect. I probably could have, after being on hold and then having to justify it at length, gotten Dell to ship me a new power cord, and then I would just ship them back the "defective" power cord. But the point is, the Apple process was easier and I was a more satisfied customer.

So totally useless anecdote, haha!!!! Just proving my point that you can't go by anecdotes. It depends too much on the specific problem and the vagaries of random chance. For example in my case 1) my problem was just a simple part replacement, and 2) I live freaking *walking* distance from the NYC SoHo Apple Store.

So the point is - trust the surveys. And yes, trust the surveys that cover *all* the warranties that the user could possibly buy. You can *always* pay more to get better service. If even ProCare is not good enough, you can always hire a 3rd party service. Granted I live in NYC where there are lots of options but I have to believe most cities/towns have at least one company that does on-site Mac servicing.

[CaptainCaveMann]

You hit the nail on the head there. If you did spend $2K on a Dell laptop you would actually get an engineer on-site, it'd be insured for accidental damage and it wouldn't be away for a week unless it was something very serious.

This is what makes me hesitant about buying Apple gear nowadays and what makes me take a crack at OSX86 every now and again (no it doesn't work properly, alas).

Lovely OS, pretty but less-than-it-should-be hardware, support service - or the lack of - that defies belief (from this 'used to corporate HP/Dell support' person).

I was reading a post elsewhere where someone was saying that they were impressed that their iMac got turned around in a week. Dell had a misbehaving memory fan on one of the Precisions fixed the next day, on-site. *That* is support I expect for paying Applecare prices, and while I don't mind paying the Apple premium for hardware, despite the superior design I do expect the stuff to be built a whole lot better than it is. My MBP deformed, for Christ's sake.

Which makes me a fool for wanting a Mac Pro, but damn - I really want a good excuse to buy one :o

Either way, you've just got to either follow through with pressing for your defective machine to be replaced or refunded, depending on how much you love OS X. The customer service department can be reasoned with, although I had to turn to a lawyer for quick results.

Remember when 15 inch tibooks cost 3000 new?

[kylepro88]

One misconception I see here is you guys assume that Apple is as big of a company as Dell and thats simply not the case. I have one Apple Store within a couple 100 mile radius or more and your expecting an on-site specialist? Dream on people I mean give the problem some reality.

-Kyle

[lmalave]

Because a lot of Mac users frequently just give Apple the benefit of the doubt. Everybody's personal experiences should matter to Apple. I'm sure Bang and Olufsen view each and every customer as important. If Apple want to be the premium brand they market themselves as, they need to do the same.

I don't agree with your reasoning that Mac users *on average* just "give the benefit of the doubt". Again, the people doing the surveys aren't stupid. They *do* care about the specifics and ask the appropriate questions. Also, a disproportionate number of recent Mac purchasers (which are the ones being surveyed), are *new* to the Mac. Which means they would give Apple *less* benefit of the doubt, not more. Do you really think someone that bought their first Mac ever, and then find that their new Mac is defective, is going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt?

As to Apple caring about personal experiences, I think they *do*. Why else would they invest so much money and effort in something like the Genius Bar? Give them credit for trying out new ideas. And ideas that seem to be working well *on average*, based on surveys.

No product, ever, is going to be defect free. There will *always* be people with negative stories to tell about a product, or about the customer service.

[lmalave]

The odds of getting a crappy machine out of the box seem inordinately high.


There are surveys/studies done on this too. Apple has the lowest defect rates in the entire computer industry, period. You can't go by personal anecdotes. For every person with a story about a defective Mac, there are even *more* stories about defective Dells, HPs, Sonys, etc. And that's not just a guess, that's a *fact*, as proven by surveys.

People, let's start trusting the facts, here, ok? The entire world thought for thousands of years that heavy objects fell faster than lighter ones, because it seemed common sense (and because Aristotle said so). But then Galileo showed through *experiment* that objects fall at the same rate. Facts, people. Science. Math. Statistics.

[jkelling]

I'll second that. If you did a bit of research, both problems are issues with some macbooks. You should not have purchased it had you thought the problems would happen to you

Also, if this is enough to make you stop using macs, you probably shouldn't have switched in the first place.

I'm really tired of fanboys and apple apologists. Do research. Don't blame apple, blame the customer. Don't use your computer that way.

Yes, I like apple products, and have several of them. But honestly, Apple has a lousy warranty, and Apple Care is highly overpriced for the MBP. And you are pretty much FORCED to buy AppleCare because these MPBs have had so many problems, you have to buy it for insurance to make sure you have your computer for more than a year. Battery recalls, paint problems, over heating, random shutdowns, random reboots - the quality just isn't there in the MBP, and I'm speaking from experience since I own one.

And appleCare is another story. I took my computer in for repair (several times now). The computer is in pristine condition and not a scratch on it. The technician was shaking it around - and I know what for - to see if he heard anything loose inside - so again, they could blame the customer and say that I had done something to it so they wouldn't have to fix it under warranty. The customer service from the AppleCare/Genius Bar technicians is apalling. Yes, they are nice and friendly, but when it comes down to it, they are looking for an excuse to NOT help you.

Oh, and on research. As I said at first, I have had several Macs over the years. When the MBP first came out, I got one in the first week. Dumb me. I guess I shouldn't have expected to be a beta tester for apple. NEVER will I buy a computer again from Apple until other suckers have had them for a while and an overall opinion of the product starts to form. In the past, I could count on Apple to create a great product, and no matter what I bought from them, I knew it would be awesome. Now, we are all starting to find that we have to put apple in the same pile as Dell, HP, etc, and do research to make sure that the product isn't a newly released clunker.

[JAT]

The problem is simple. It's a matter of perspective and expectations.

When people buy a Dell, they are told it is cheap, and they see a box. They expect a cheap box. Dell has good service, and they are impressed that a company would bother to be good for a box.

When people buy an Apple, they get an impressive industrial design that is marketed as the coolest, best-working computer around. I dare say "pretty". And they are told it works better and is worth paying a bit more. And they expect a pretty, perfect machine that works all day and tucks them into bed at night. Now, since Apple is not as big as Dell, they can't offer full onsite service. So service is good, but not quite as impressive.

So when the Dell breaks, it's no big deal. They get it fixed and move on. Half the time it's forgotten cause it's just a big, ugly box and is supposed to be like that. Not to mention you get used to the system doing things differently every day, the hardware doing something different (like not turning on) is no big deal. It's just another computer, after all. When the Apple breaks, the world has ended. And for some, it's time to throw it away and bash Apple. "I thought this could never break. And it didn't make my breakfast this morning or let the dog out. You suck, Apple! You suck, other Apple owners! I want a Dell cause Jimmy down the street says it's great."

When the Dell broke, expectations didn't have far to fall. When the Apple broke, expectations dropped from heaven and shattered the poor person's psyche. Poor people, go get a Dell. It hurts less.

[Hockeypuck]

When the Apple broke, expectations dropped from heaven and shattered the poor person's psyche. Poor people, go get a Dell. It hurts less.

It might help if Apple were to stop advertising that their computers don't crash or have issues. I'm not trying to bash Apple here, but the average computer user doesn't understand why their Mac isn't perfect, because Apple spent their advertising dollars telling them it was.

[JAT]

And appleCare is another story. I took my computer in for repair (several times now). The computer is in pristine condition and not a scratch on it. The technician was shaking it around - and I know what for - to see if he heard anything loose inside - so again, they could blame the customer and say that I had done something to it so they wouldn't have to fix it under warranty. The customer service from the AppleCare/Genius Bar technicians is apalling. Yes, they are nice and friendly, but when it comes down to it, they are looking for an excuse to NOT help you.

To prove my point from above, I'll use this anecdote and a recent one from my office about a Dell laptop. First, I'll agree with you 100% about the treatment of the computer. If I see a Genius toss my laptop around, I'll tackle him and mirror any damages on HIS outer shell. But, moving on...

You had a poor experience and are whining about it on the web. Your expectations have been destroyed, it seems. I take it you have your computer today? And it works? And it was a free, warranty fix?

My IT guy had to have his screen replaced. It went bad after less than a month, wonky colors or something. And when the guy came out, he put in the wrong screen. Dell has 2-3 levels of quality (unlike Apple, who simply supplies a better screen than any of Dell's), my coworker has the top version, the guy put in one of the other levels. It was quite obvious, it actually looked grainy, like a 1940s movie. Did IT man come on the web and cry? No, he shrugged and made the guy come back out a day or 2 later. Now he has the right screen after several phone calls and 2 repair jobs. And lots and lots of eye rolling. :rolleyes: By both him and me.

So, you both have stupid repair guys and screw-ups by the company. You both have your computers back and working. ONE of you is crying on the web about how sucky the company is. Who's got the problem, again?

[JAT]

It might help if Apple were to stop advertising that their computers don't crash or have issues. I'm not trying to bash Apple here, but the average computer user doesn't understand why their Mac isn't perfect, because Apple spent their advertising dollars telling them it was.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I said. Although, I don't happen to see any "average computer users" here. Those are the people rating Apple as the best quality computers and service. Huh.

Everyone claims to be Johnny-on-the-spot computer geeks here. And yet some can't seem to cope. I think I'll go have a good cry for all of them. :p

[Hockeypuck]

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I said.

Right, I just wanted to add that their ad campaign doesn't help them when something breaks :p

Good luck with your cry :)

[JAT]

Right, I just wanted to add that their ad campaign doesn't help them when something breaks :p

Good luck with your cry :)
Thanks, I feel better now. I hope everyone else does, too. Just want to help out. :D

Actually, the movie or TV show with that "I'm a Mac" guy playing an idiot is probably going to kill their commercials.

[MACDRIVE]

along with the "pitting" of the handrest and peeling up of the topcase while it was there.

Isn't the handrest and topcase the same part? :confused:

[skunk]

One misconception I see here is you guys assume that Apple is as big of a company as Dell and thats simply not the case. I have one Apple Store within a couple 100 mile radius or more and your expecting an on-site specialist? Dream on people I mean give the problem some reality.That is a very good point. For Apple routinely to offer this level of cover would be prohibitively expensive. Maybe if they double their market share it will become viable.

[Sesshi]

I don't know, but how is this relevant in the grand scheme of things? You want to bring in what percentage of people buy which warranty now???? I really don't know what percentage of Dell consumer buyers buy the 3-year warranty vs. the default 1-year. But what does it matter? Maybe because Dell is trying to market itself as lowest-price, it doesn't push the buyer to buy the extended warranty, whereas Apple, more concerned about its reputation as a premium brand, markets its AppleCare more aggressively. And which consumers are ultimately happier? Apple's. But don't take my word for it - look at *all* the various survey results.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The Dell is marketed as the cheapest so people adjust the prices until they get the cheapest. Ergo, when things go wrong you'll see more complaints against Dell.

One of the points I'm making is that the premium Applecare doesn't deliver a premium service - far from it. I demand value but not necessarily low cost. Very few things I buy from Dell for example is cheap in the consumer scheme of things - I buy Poweredges, Precisions and Latitudes all loaded with service and support. The difference is that service and support is included as standard. And all this falls squarely into the price brackets of Applecare-attached Apple 'Pro' equipment, in fact for the most case for a lot less. A Latitude notebook for example comes with build quality that is slightly superior to Apple combined with product engineering for durability that is definitively superior, better specs, 24/7 telephone support, next-day on-site repair - and in my case, notably lower price. Granted, it is fugly.

It should be noted that Dell outsources it's maintenance to third parties as their equipment is designed to be easy to service on-site - even their notebooks. The 'Dell is bigger' reason doesn't really make sense.

[tarjan]

Actually surveys don't always work.

Let me ask you a question, how many surveys do you get? Honestly? Are you a homeowner? College student? Bum on the street?

As a homeowner I get a ton. From GM, Audi, Dell, Porsche, Lenovo, and a million other companies. I rarely fill them out and send them back, mostly because I am lazy but partially because filling one out will just get me MORE junk mail. I am probably more apt to send in a survey about my old boxster than anything else, because it was a great vehicle and I am still a porsche fan. Everything else just seems to work fairly well and just doesn't really resonate in terms of need, so I just ignore the surveys, especially fromdell.

That was until the power supply and one battery died in one of my dell laptops. Then I filled in my survey telling them exactly what I thought.

If you get a survey from apple on the other hand, what is the likelyhood that you will send it in? Is apple "important" enough to you for the ten minutes it will take? Even if nothing is wrong and it gets all positives?

Statistics based on surveys are a pain because you are basing the numbers on an unreliable or biased source. Most of those magic numbers you see have to be fudged due to the non-responders. To be fair, they fudge ALL of the numbers in specific catagories in a similar fashion, but that can skew results if one company gets huge numbers of responders vs another. This *could* indicate that apple's hardware actually has the same as or greater numbers of issues as compared to the competition, but that due to an unusually high number of positive responders or people who are more apt to not worry about issues, or the "fudge factor", they get a very positive report.

I think the numbers will normalize and become a bit more accurate (as a comparison tool) as apple gets bigger and is taking a similar bite out of the laptop pie as dell. Of course my guess is that the numbers will look almost identical to dell.

Right now the only numbers you can trust would come from apples service and repair groups, but they don't release anything directly.

[Eraserhead]

It's actually fine if you want the supplementary features provided you can get booked for them. But as a support boost? *&%$£@# hopeless.

My take is that they should charge more to keep the riff-raff off the Genius bars. Sorry to sound elitist but £80 is an indeterminate figure. Charge a £300 ~ £400 extension per Applecare and get me a guaranteed genius booking on that day with a guaranteed same-day fix, and I'll happily pay it.

This is what I don't understand about Apple support. Dell/HP have options so depending on your critical needs you can request (and pay for) the support you need - and get it! Apple has just the same indifferent, overpriced cover be you a student (no offense to students... well, not much :p ) or someone who actually relies on his IT hardware.

It's better for students as the support is free for them ;). But I kinda see your point, though £250 to £300 per customer is probably more realistic, I'm sure many pros would pay that kind of money especially if they are charging £500 a day.

[miles01110]

So I sent in my MBP to get the RSD problem fixed... along with the "pitting" of the handrest and peeling up of the topcase while it was there.

Of course... they blame me immediately for all the problems. They claim that accidental "fall damage" caused the topcase to peel apart and that the case was misaligned... which apparently caused bad heat distribution which is causing the RSD issue.

I guess they just pull at anything they can to cast the blame elsewhere... if they don't fix the shut down issue I'm gonna go nuts. Either way this is my last Apple. Dell doesn't treat their customers like this... and they dont't charge 2k either.

I always enjoy it when posts like these come up. As if the Apple community really cares if you're going back to Dell- it's your loss, not ours.

[skunk]

On the contrary, it's our loss when Apple's support is less than stellar. It seems there are many Macs out there which have unresolved build-quality issues. This does no good for either the user base or the platform as a whole, especially if they really want a slice of the corporate market.

[extraextra]

What's with all the bad reports of Applecare? They've been nothing but helpful for me, and the Geniuses barely even glance at things before they're offering to repair or replace it? Maybe you guys just have jerks at your stores?


I've literally dropped things into the water, have it short-circuit, taken it to an Apple Store, and they replaced it, barely any questions asked:
"What were you doing with it?"
"I was just on the internet when the whole thing went out!" ( :p )
"Hm. It's dead, we'll have to replace it."

I've been there many times and I've never seen them trying to cut corners or purposely blame the user. :confused:

[peas]

or maybe the genius folk at your store are anything but..

[peas]

I always enjoy it when posts like these come up. As if the Apple community really cares if you're going back to Dell- it's your loss, not ours.

he gets a machine that works.
where's the loss in that?

and yes, you as a fanboy do lose.
do think about your arguement longer than a keystroke?

[FFTT]

How many times and in how many threads have us old timers warned people about the pitfalls of buying the first release of Rev "A" machines?

It really doesn't matter who builds that Rev "A". You're going to discover certain
issues once they get out there in the real world with coffee and cigarettes and greasy fingers and dust and plenty of pilot error.

Rev "A" has the lowest specs suitable for market and then the new improved
Rev "B" takes care of the majority of issues that come up.

Apple is like any company out there contracting out to third party component
suppliers hoping to get good quality while keeping the price down.

Some third party suppliers fail miserably, like the ones who supplied the 1st
capacitors in the Rev "A" iMac G5.
That ONE third party component supplier caused an 11% failure rate
in those machines taking out the mid plane logic board.

The early G5 towers had a bad batch of Power Supply Units, that caused widespread noise issues.

It's par for the course when you can't wait for a proven machine.

Even so, Apple should resolve your issues without making your life a living hell.

You need to contact Apple Customer Relations and keep good records,
just like with any other product and insist on satisfactory results.

There are enough references to your specific problems on the web to
back up your claim, but you need to take your claim to a higher authority.

Be firm but polite.

Document everything including who you talked to.

You paid a premium for quality and that's exactly what you should expect and nothing less.

Next time, try to cycle your purchases on Rev "B" or later.

[Gaelic1]

I find it so funny that when people have a bad experience with Apple, they seem to always have had GREAT experiences with Dell. Whenever someone says something positive about Apple in these threads is automatically "fanboy" :p

Its almost never "I just want to vent", or "I'm frustrated, maybe you can give me advice" its "I hate apple..... and Dell is so much: cheaper, better, better support, better specs, better user experience... and XP really isn't that bad, especially since Tiger is so unstable" :rolleyes:
Rescue.com Scored Apple (Larger score better) a 201, IBM Lenovo a 243, HP/Compaq 12, and Dell a screaming 4! This scores reliability. August PC Magazine consistently rates Apple at the top of the reliability and service support pile. You've just been lucky with your Dell experience.

[Macmadant]

So I sent in my MBP to get the RSD problem fixed... along with the "pitting" of the handrest and peeling up of the topcase while it was there.

Of course... they blame me immediately for all the problems. They claim that accidental "fall damage" caused the topcase to peel apart and that the case was misaligned... which apparently caused bad heat distribution which is causing the RSD issue.

I guess they just pull at anything they can to cast the blame elsewhere... if they don't fix the shut down issue I'm gonna go nuts. Either way this is my last Apple. Dell doesn't treat their customers like this... and they dont't charge 2k either.

Well that shame it happened to you, it depends how much you love OSX on weather you'll go back to dell, and have you had a dell before and had an issue with them that they fixed really quickly ?. personally i love OSX, and i couldn't put up with windows i hate the way it works which all D drives C drives blah blah. i don't get along with it well at all at school, OSX just makes sense, everything is the way it should be, plus I'd probley wait until vista is out then get a del, not that i can see it's a very good improvement over XP

[KevKaos]

he gets a machine that works.
where's the loss in that?

and yes, you as a fanboy do lose.
do think about your arguement longer than a keystroke?

DUHHHHH You think you could take a keystroke of a moment to learn how to spell "argument".

Must be a Dell user.

Hey, wait a sec, I'm a Dell user.

Whatever.

[theBB]

it amazes me that some people seems to have exceptionally high rate of failure on their machine... >10x higher than average rate of failure... does that, not at all, indicate there might be something wrong with how you use the machine?
It can also indicate a bad batch of hard-disks that Dell received, as the two machines in question were purchased at the same time and their harddisks failed within two weeks of each other. In any case, the argument is over customer service and in each case we had to wait for about a week for Dell to send somebody over. I don't think you can blame that delay on the user.

I don't know if Apple is any better, but in the end Dell had two chances to impress me with its customer service and failed in each occasion.

[mattcube64]

I find it so funny that when people have a bad experience with Apple, they seem to always have had GREAT experiences with Dell. Whenever someone says something positive about Apple in these threads is automatically "fanboy" :p

Its almost never "I just want to vent", or "I'm frustrated, maybe you can give me advice" its "I hate apple..... and Dell is so much: cheaper, better, better support, better specs, better user experience... and XP really isn't that bad, especially since Tiger is so unstable" :rolleyes:

Not me. I made a post a few days ago saying my MB has begun to stain. It's my first Mac, and I'm a switcher. I bought my MB in July, and is just now beginning to stain. I have to have my MB, as it is my only computer. However, my post was to vent and ask for advice. I plan on making my next purchase before college another Apple. I love the design and OS, even though game support (and tech support, apparently) is lackluster.

[Butthead]

So I sent in my MBP to get the RSD problem fixed... along with the "pitting" of the handrest and peeling up of the topcase while it was there.

Of course... they blame me immediately for all the problems. They claim that accidental "fall damage" caused the topcase to peel apart and that the case was misaligned... which apparently caused bad heat distribution which is causing the RSD issue.

I guess they just pull at anything they can to cast the blame elsewhere... if they don't fix the shut down issue I'm gonna go nuts. Either way this is my last Apple. Dell doesn't treat their customers like this... and they dont't charge 2k either.

Note to Adm., it would be helpful if when you delete a post by an offending member, that you put in a short statement in the latest post by such banned member, as to that fact, and why they were banned (detailed explanation not necessary, just a short *member* banned for *such* such violation). It should be a policy of MR for the mods/admn to do just that, and might possibly reduced the need for banning, yes?

I don't want to get banned for making some common mistake I could have avoided if I know how the Adm team is sensitive to their vision of unacceptable conduct.

TIA

Personally, I think since the OP member has been banned, this thread therefore has become irrelevant and moot, it should be locked/closed.

[annk]

...

I don't want to get banned for making some common mistake I could have avoided if I know how the Adm team is sensitive to their vision of unacceptable conduct....


Read the rules (http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Forum_Rules#Moderation), especially Moderation and the points following, respect them, and you'll be fine.

If you want to contact a mod or an administrator, send a PM. You can't assume a comment directed to them in a post will be noticed or answered.

[Dunepilot]

I can quite understand how someone could get so disillusioned by Apple's aftercare service as to give up on Macs altogether.

I've never owned anything other than a Mac and never will, such is my loyalty to Apple's computers and computing vision, but my experience of dealing with the Apple Store Regent Street staff has been appalling. Maybe they've become jaded through dealing with idiots who've wiped their iPod collection of tracks they got from their friends' computers and that kind of thing, but the point mentioned earlier in this thread about them trying to pin any defect on the user is absolutely true.

[0010101]

I'll say this.. i've owned many Apple computers, and i've owned many more 'PCs'. The Apple hardware has always had a higher failure rate.

So much for superior hardware design.

The upside is that a Mac is useful much longer than a PC (when it keeps working, that is) but that longer 'lifecycle' comes at a premium initial purchase price.

I won't buy new Macs anymore.. they're just too damn expensive, and their customer service/warranty repair service is sub par at best.

OSX really is a superior OS.. it's a shame they don't bundle it with hardware and support that's as pretty as the cases.

Fortunately for me, I don't do anything with my computer that requires cutting edge, top of the line speed.. I find what was 'top of the line' two years ago to be just fine.

I'm looking forward to buying a used 17" MacBookPro in two years.. provided they all haven't fallen apart by then!

[slffl]

Heheh, funny stuff. I wish people would stop trying to convince these 'switchers' to stay when they post these kind of threads. There are too many switchers as it is. There are way too many 'PC geeks' converting and it will only make things worse, not better.

[KevKaos]

I just wish one of these clowns who are fed up with Mac's would agree to sell me their Mac for a cheap price.

[iW00t]

Now if they want me to start on about the 10 laptops that my office bought a few years ago, I could. Here's a hint. 3 identical failures which required motherboard replacement. 3 out of 10 is a 33% failure rate. I don't know about you, but that is unexceptable. But you know what? We just bought 8 new Dell D610's that arrived last week. Fingers are crossed that we don't have a repeat of that sort again.

30%? So what?

Even if you get 50% failure rate you are still out ahead of a Mac user. Simply throw it away (disregarding the warranty at all) and buy another one. With Dell's cheap pricing you can't lose.

With Apple, good luck. And may God help you if they point to a scratch on your glossy computer and voids your Applecare then and there because of "abuse".

It is quite an arrogance with just a few cases of customer support under your belt to assume that you've seen everything either company has to offer. We purchased two desktops from Dell, both of which had harddisk failures. Our in house support did not show up for a week for one of those and that was our institutional support. 100% failure rate, awful customer support and no apologies, either.

Of course, everybody in those surveys who rate Apple higher than Dell are of course gullible foolish consumers. All of those surveys and rankings of quality are worthless as well. Pffft!...

100% of 3% is a lot smaller than 10% of 50%. Just a thought for you...

[iW00t]

Remember when 15 inch tibooks cost 3000 new?

How does that compare to 15" laptops back in the day?

Remember paying $1000 for a 100MB hard drive?

So what? Technology pricing drops.

[Kolind]

100% of 3% is a lot smaller than 10% of 50%. Just a thought for you...

Wouldn't that be 3% and 5% respectively? Don't see 3% as being a lot smaller than 5% really? Unless you see 5% as being 66% more than 3% :p

[iW00t]

Done with Apple? Good. Don't really want you anyway.

Since when did he wanted you to want him?

Don't feel validated IRL? Doesn't surprise me, even if you die tomorrow I won't give two hoots about it.

Heheh, funny stuff. I wish people would stop trying to convince these 'switchers' to stay when they post these kind of threads. There are too many switchers as it is. There are way too many 'PC geeks' converting and it will only make things worse, not better.

Yeah, I am sure there are too many switchers. AAPL's shareholders probably will agree with you too. :rolleyes:

[BBGun]

It's posts like this that really annoy me over this site which seems to be filled with irrational fanboys. Granted, there are many, many people here I can conduct a fun and intelligent conversation on a variety of topics but apparently not over slighting Apple.

I presume a lot of you have considered Applecare. A lot of you probably went for it. With your previous Dell, did you ever pay for the equivalent-cost service? Because that's what I do always. First-line support is always slightly annoying with any vendor, but if you purchase the extended aftercare services off these vendors you get response times and fix times off HP, Dell and Lenovo which makes Applecare look like a complete joke.

Okay, I didn't finish reading this thread yet, but I'm going to respond to this post anyway...

I currently work as a Systems & SAN Admin/Engineer. I've dealt extensively with tech support from the following companies: Sun, IBM, McData, EMC, CipherTrust, Nortel, CA, Brocade, Cisco, JNI, QLogic, Apple, Dell, etc. I've personally owned Apple, Toshiba, IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Epson hardware and dealt with their tech support as a private user. I have had both good and bad experiences with ALL of them, even [gasp] Apple!

Prior to this, I was a Systems Admin for a very large ISP, and thus, in addition to my regular duties, I was occasionally called on as 2nd/3rd level tech support. I was co-located with a call center full of 1st level folks, so I know how it works from the tech support side too.

In my experience (12+ years), tech support is very prone to "the human factor". You get good support and bad support based on any/all of the following:
- the person with whom you're speaking
- their knowledge of the specific product being dealt with
- their background in technical things in general
- their normal personality
- their bad-day personality
- the drugs they took for that stupid cold of theirs
- what they had for lunch
- the time of day (is this shift almost over?)
- the time of the month (sorry ladies, but it's true)
- the phase of the moon
- etc...

This doesn't even include the additional issues with off-shore tech support! :(

Sesshi, your point about "first-line support... always [being] slightly annoying with any vendor" is a good one and it's very important. The key to getting good tech support from anyone is knowing that there are multiple levels of support at most (larger) companies. This is even true of Applecare support, despite what their marketing material may imply.

The first tech support person you speak with (sometimes that's not the guy/girl who first answers the phone and takes notes on your problem) is usually 1st level support; someone who is not necessarily highly trained and/or paid. They often have a manual/guide in front of them and they just follow the listed procedure/steps. Some have more experience than others and it may show. They may not even really understand everything about the inner workings of your product.

If they don't seem to have a clue or don't give you the support you think you deserve, then ask for the next level (e.g. 2nd level support). If they balk or refuse, then demand to speak to their boss. You have to persist until you get the appropriate level of help. Sometimes, it's almost a game to see who can be the most annoying: you or them. And remember, dealing with tech support is like dealing with life: no one said it was always going to be easy.

And one more thing: 1st level support can also be used as a defense mechanism by companies. There are a few folks out there who "break" something and then call tech support claiming it's a problem with the product. You know who you are.

Basically, they (we) are all the same. I do believe you get more from Apple, but they have their bad days too.

BTW, I've owned 15 Macs over the years (both work and play), and I've only had two of them fail on me (and one of those was actually "killed" by my son). We'll see how long my new Macbook C2D lasts. Hopefully, it isn't destined for an early demise. :o

Seeshi, your experience is only one, as is mine.

(Way more than) 'nuf said.

[iBorg20181]

You hit the nail on the head there. If you did spend $2K on a Dell laptop you would actually get an engineer on-site, it'd be insured for accidental damage and it wouldn't be away for a week unless it was something very serious.

This is what makes me hesitant about buying Apple gear nowadays and what makes me take a crack at OSX86 every now and again (no it doesn't work properly, alas).

Lovely OS, pretty but less-than-it-should-be hardware, support service - or the lack of - that defies belief (from this 'used to corporate HP/Dell support' person).

I was reading a post elsewhere where someone was saying that they were impressed that their iMac got turned around in a week. Dell had a misbehaving memory fan on one of the Precisions fixed the next day, on-site. *That* is support I expect for paying Applecare prices, and while I don't mind paying the Apple premium for hardware, despite the superior design I do expect the stuff to be built a whole lot better than it is. My MBP deformed, for Christ's sake.

Which makes me a fool for wanting a Mac Pro, but damn - I really want a good excuse to buy one :o

Either way, you've just got to either follow through with pressing for your defective machine to be replaced or refunded, depending on how much you love OS X. The customer service department can be reasoned with, although I had to turn to a lawyer for quick results.

LOL!

My son's Dell, costing $2,500, has been sent in for repairs 3 times over the past 2 years, under warranty, each time taking 1 week to return, and each repair lasting about 6 months, then needing another send-in. Each time, a call to a tech-support person from Pakistan/India with limited English abilities (not bad if I'm calling from India, but not from Minnesota!), taking 30+ minutes to convey the problem and need for repair. Sure, you can buy on-site repair, but it's extra beyond the 3-year extended warranty!

In comparison, I've had 3 different Mac notebooks, and an iMac requiring send-in repairs, and each call to tech-support was to an articulate, knowledgable person who quickly arranged an overnight express box for pickup, overnight express to repair, and the same back to me, for a total 3-day turnaround.

Dell for tech support/warranty/repair? HAH! I'll take Apple anyday!

:mad:

iBorg

[tyroja00]

....Dell has 2-3 levels of quality (unlike Apple, who simply supplies a better screen than any of Dell's), ...

So, you both have stupid repair guys and screw-ups by the company. You both have your computers back and working. ONE of you is crying on the web about how sucky the company is. Who's got the problem, again?

With all do respect, my Dell's screen is a lot better than my MBP C2D (as far as resolution and banding). There are numerous theads about this on this forum alone.

Second, if it wasn't for some of these so called "cry-babies", we wouldn't have known about some major issues such as peeling, shipping delays, RSS, etc. That is what a forum is for, to discuss your preferences and yes, your complaints as well.

I will agree though that ALL companies screw-up, some more than others. But, you better believe that I would be more angry about performance issues with my Porsche than my Chevy. But, then again, my 'Vette better not be acting up.

It's relative, a $3,000 computer SHOULD be held to a higher standard than a $1,300 computer. A $1,300 computer should be held to a higher standard than a $700 computer.

But, to balance the argument, there are some who hold too unreasonable of a standard.

[iBorg20181]

I do realise I'm a bit of a fool for even trying to be even handed given my truly like-for-like experience on a board like this. But you can't blame a guy for trying... ?

Granted, I haven't come across many of your posts in the threads I've been following, but .... given your "Dell FanBoi" attitude on this thread, and your obvious distaste for Apple, I gotta wonder WTF you're doing posting over 1,900 posts to a Mac forum board over 5 short months! I mean, you haven't been "banned" from Dell forums for being a "Vaio FanBoi," have you?

:rolleyes:

iBorg

[deadpixels]

One misconception I see here is you guys assume that Apple is as big of a company as Dell and thats simply not the case. I have one Apple Store within a couple 100 mile radius or more and your expecting an on-site specialist? Dream on people I mean give the problem some reality.

-Kyle

you hit the nail on the head with this one, exactly my thoughts, i think people are not seeing the whole picture and expect apple to match a company that many times igger, unrealistic!

[whateverandever]

you hit the nail on the head with this one, exactly my thoughts, i think people are not seeing the whole picture and expect apple to match a company that many times igger, unrealistic!

http://www.macobserver.com/stockwatch/2006/01/16.1.shtml

'nuff said.

[iBorg20181]

I'll say this.. i've owned many Apple computers, and i've owned many more 'PCs'. The Apple hardware has always had a higher failure rate.

So much for superior hardware design.

The upside is that a Mac is useful much longer than a PC (when it keeps working, that is) but that longer 'lifecycle' comes at a premium initial purchase price.

I won't buy new Macs anymore.. they're just too damn expensive, and their customer service/warranty repair service is sub par at best.

OSX really is a superior OS.. it's a shame they don't bundle it with hardware and support that's as pretty as the cases.

Fortunately for me, I don't do anything with my computer that requires cutting edge, top of the line speed.. I find what was 'top of the line' two years ago to be just fine.

I'm looking forward to buying a used 17" MacBookPro in two years.. provided they all haven't fallen apart by then!

My experience is just opposite of yours! I've also have many PCs and many more Macs over the past 15 years, and I've found that my Macs have, by far, been better built and lasted longer.

And while in the past, Macs cost more than similarly spec'd PCs, most comparisons over the past year or two have shown that if you compare identical specs (which can now, finally, be directly compared since they're using the same parts!), the Macs will, in general, cost the same, and in many instances (e.g. MacBooks) cost significantly less (and that's without adding in the value of included software!).

I've already given my experience with Apple's warranty repair, which I found to be more efficient, customer-friendly, and faster than that of Dell and HP. Each poster's experiences will vary, and of course are a small sampling in the total scheme of things! But year-after-after, the consumer satisfaction surverys rate Apple as near-best among their competition

Even if I could run OS X on my PC, I'd still prefer my MacBook Pro - style, design, features all superior to the competition (IMHO, or course!).

:D

iBorg

[Queso]

http://www.macobserver.com/stockwatch/2006/01/16.1.shtml

'nuff said.
Seriously out of date info. According to today's NASDAQ

Market Cap of Apple $ 72,375,690,604.80
Market Cap of Dell $ 58,312,331,380.00

However, Dell's turnover dwarfs Apple's which I think was being referred to. It's just that investors aren't confident that Dell's business model is going anywhere other than down.

[cynerjist]

Seriously out of date info. According to today's NASDAQ

Market Cap of Apple $ 72,375,690,604.80
Market Cap of Dell $ 58,312,331,380.00

However, Dell's turnover dwarfs Apple's which I think was being referred to. It's just that investors aren't confident that Dell's business model is going anywhere other than down.

Yeah but the Apple cap number is due to the iPod not computer sales, right?

I think Dell's business model isn't the problem. The investors don't trust the company. There was the battery recall and they are under federal investigation for "accounting irregularities."

Oh, and I could care less if OP quits Apple, but I wouldn't blame him.