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MacRumors
Apr 15, 2003, 08:38 PM
Richard Das put together this Flash demo (http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/piles.html) of his impression of how the rumored feature 'Piles' would work.

A description of the rumored feature can be found here (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030414200722.shtml)



Chef Ramen
Apr 15, 2003, 08:50 PM
thats very cool, though im sure apple's version will be much different.

best start saving my pennies i guess!

jeffberg
Apr 15, 2003, 09:19 PM
Very Cool.

The only thing I would ask of it, is a real preview, maybe not of the text documents, but the WebPage and the Pictures should have a real preview.

Sol
Apr 15, 2003, 09:26 PM
Very good demo. It would be more Finder-like if the highlighted JPEGs appeared as little preview pictures rather than a simple icon. Same goes for .MOVs and plain text files.

MOM
Apr 15, 2003, 09:31 PM
I like the demo. It looks like another good way manage files. I think the folks who like to keep everything on teh desktop will love it. I would expect the highlighted file to zoom out like the dock.

Doctor Q
Apr 15, 2003, 09:32 PM
burlybrawl.jpg?

Mr. Anderson
Apr 15, 2003, 09:40 PM
Although it is a cool demo - I certainly hope there is more to it than that. It has a nice 'cool' factor, but as a practical file organization tool I wouldn't really use it.

Sort of like the 3D finder demos....

D

pivo6
Apr 15, 2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
Although it is a cool demo - I certainly hope there is more to it than that. It has a nice 'cool' factor, but as a practical file organization tool I wouldn't really use it.

Sort of like the 3D finder demos....

D

I agree. I can't see how this would be useful for me. I organize my folders and name my docs in a way that makes sense and that I can tell what it is. If someone can explain to me how this would be useful, I'll listen.

beatle888
Apr 15, 2003, 10:17 PM
the cool thing about it is its icon view with previews. i need all that data about a file and its nice to get to it without using list view or the column preview.

that was very nice for the person to create the demo by the way.

rainman::|:|
Apr 15, 2003, 10:19 PM
I could definitely see the uses in this-- having a pile for each active project, or for bigger projects having a folder with files piled however you like... i would kill for this at work... damn wintel, it'll be 5 years before they get this, and it'll be ugly.

i like the aesthetics of the demo... very Apple, but still has that 'fun' aspect to it-- being able to switch between disheveled and neat... i'll definitely put this to good use if/when it comes out...

pnw

NavyIntel007
Apr 15, 2003, 10:27 PM
Dude that demo is pretty weak. There has to be more for that to have a pattend.

iJon
Apr 15, 2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dude that demo is pretty weak. There has to be more for that to have a pattend.
now now, i thought it was pretty good, its hard to make a demo on something we have never seen before.

iJon

evoluzione
Apr 15, 2003, 10:41 PM
did it's job i thought, and that's explaining the way it 'may' work. certainly helped me visualise it better.

MacQuest
Apr 15, 2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dude that demo is pretty weak. There has to be more for that to have a pattend.

Don't be a jerk NavyIntel007...:rolleyes:

It's pure speculation at this point on something that may not even exist in this form. I definately see the potential on a much grander scale though.

Time to distinguish ourselves from Micrapsoft even further and change the old 2-dimensional finder views in order to make computer use more intuitive...Apple Style!!:D

MOM
Apr 16, 2003, 12:02 AM
To those who find it hard imagine how this would be useful:

I think most computer savey folks have a very organized method of filing their stuff. They know their way around the hard drive and they may not see why piles (as demoed-I don't know any more about this) would help them out. However, I know many people who turn on their Mac and work off the desktop for everything. My Father for instance. He has me install software and all he want to know is what button to hit to start it. As for his files, they're all over the desktop where he can see them. I work at a University around a lot of medical doctors. Many are not that computer savy. They know how to start MS word etc. I've seen desktops that give me the chills. I commented to one recently (he had about 50 items scattered on his desktop) on his "mess." He said thats how he remembers the things he needs to work on. Just like the "piles" of paper on his desk. I can very easily imagine that piles technology as I understand it would fit perfectly with this method of visual/location on desktop filing. Its just the "desktop" metaphore taken further.

Good night all, MOM

Doctor Q
Apr 16, 2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by MOM
My Father for instance...If you are MOM, does that make your father GRANDPA?

The piles demo was a good way to illustrate one way to view a collection of files. I can imagine a variation that would be fun to see: Suppose you open a folder that is in icon view. When you move the cursor over each icon while holding down, say, the Control key, the icon under the cursor enlarges (like magnification in the dock) and shows you file info and a file preview right there. It's like a magnifying glass you can drag over any item.

Macette
Apr 16, 2003, 12:30 AM
that's how i imagine it too - great job richard das.

i like the idea of it... not sure if i'd use it, though i probably would, but i think os X will be really improved by having lots of different visual metaphors for storage, because different people work in different ways.

mac15
Apr 16, 2003, 02:46 AM
wicked coo, bring on the goeyness! :)

stuartmingay
Apr 16, 2003, 05:18 AM
... yeah. I imagine the previews would show the actual document contents. Would the name of the pile be the only clue to the relevence of the document grouping do you think? Would each doc open if you double-clicked the pile?

Stu

rdas7
Apr 16, 2003, 05:20 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all the kind comments.

As for the usefullness of Piles: have you ever gone on a desktop-picture hunt and downloaded 10 from the internet only to have them land on your desktop and clutter everything up? I assume you'd be able to just take pictures and drag-n-drop them on each other (kind of like when you drag-n-drop a doc on an app to open it) and have them stack. They'd still all be sitting nicely on your desktop (ie. easy access), but they wouldn't be taking up so much screen real-estate.

As for comments from people who said the "previews" should be more elaborate:
I think that the preview mechanism will be as elaborate as is practical. That is, that preview area could hold just about anything - quicktime movies could have a mini-video, just like in Finder list-views. However, in order for the pile to be useful, these would have to instantly load (you don't want each file to "stick" as a preview loads), or perhaps the preview only loads after a second or two (if you hover). In this demo, it's just toggling through flat images (so, switching is instant)...

Thanks again for all the comments. I personally can't wait for 10.3 - sounds like it's going to be well worth the price. After all, so much work goes into these things - 10.2 is a work of art.

davy the bunny
Apr 16, 2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
burlybrawl.jpg?

Burly Brawl is the name of the big action scene where all of the Agent Smiths attack Neo in Matrix Reloaded. The codename for the script of Matrix Reloaded was "The Burly Man" because of it. . . Keymaker is also a reference to Matrix Reloaded, I think he's the guy you've seen on the back of Trinity's motorcycle in the chase scenes. And I'm sure we all know what movie "mnemonic" refers to, I personally love bad movies and that was one that was horribly wonderful. . .

rdas7
Apr 16, 2003, 06:53 AM
Actually, mnemonic was a reference to my band, "Mnemonic" http://www.mnemonicgroove.com <- shameless plug!

But, you're right cause the band's named after the Gibson short story.

(I guess people are more psyched about the Matrix Reloaded than they are about iTablet_specs!) ;)

Mr. Anderson
Apr 16, 2003, 07:10 AM
It was a good job for viewing how it might work. I like the analogy of the user who has everything on their desk top.

As some one who has 10,000s of files, my organization requires something a little more robust. So it might not be suitable for every user, but it will be for some.

And I'm sure there will be some more functionality to it.

D

From Win to Mac
Apr 16, 2003, 08:01 AM
What's the freakin difference between a pile and folder ?!?
The feature will be more of an eye-candy thing.

Marc

davy the bunny
Apr 16, 2003, 08:07 AM
I personally am more excited about matrix reoladed because it's something I know for a fact is happening, I try not to get to excited about rumors/speculation. . . (please don't hurt me with semantics)

Anyway, because I use my digital camera so much, I'd really love to be able to bring all of the pics from a session to my desktop as a pile so that I can work with them easily. Even though I think that I use folders effectively, they sometimes take up too much screen real estate. If implemented well I can see piles definitely becoming yet another great feature of OS X.

zarathustra
Apr 16, 2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by From Win to Mac
What's the freakin difference between a pile and folder ?!?
The feature will be more of an eye-candy thing.

Marc

A folder you have to double click - a window opens and you see files within.

With a pile, you can have MP3s dumping on your desktop (or other folder), and defined by a script, they would be sorted (by size, date, etc.). To view a pile you just click, hold, select release (you just opened the document), and the pile returns to it's previous state.

Right now I have PDFs piling on my desktop, because I am too lazy to file them right away. Instead of 10 different documents, I would see a pile: "PDFs".

Trekkie
Apr 16, 2003, 08:46 AM
You see, just when you think there is nothing we could do to make the interface less cluttered, more easier to use, or anything like that someone comes along and comes up with something quite good and quite different.

I like it.

gbojim
Apr 16, 2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by pivo6
I agree. I can't see how this would be useful for me. I organize my folders and name my docs in a way that makes sense and that I can tell what it is. If someone can explain to me how this would be useful, I'll listen.

Well for me, I work on a lot of projects where I have the files neatly organized and stored in different folders. Many of these files are used on multiple projects. The problem is, I either have to create a bunch of aliases in a sinlge folder, have a bunch of finder windows open, or constantly change between folders in a window to work on the project files. Any of those methods is quite time consuming and a PITA.

It would be great to be able to temprorarily store the required files together in a "pile" and just kill the pile when it is no longer needed without affecting the actual files. Having that ability would probably save me 15-30 min per day.

I don't know if that is the way it will work, but makes sense to me.

StuPid QPid
Apr 16, 2003, 10:25 AM
Nice Demo, but what happens if, like me, you have folders with loads of files in them. I'm not sure how this could work for piles with anything more than about 10-20 individual documents/files. Otherwise it'd go off the top of the screen?

PS. Also I'm not sure about the name - "piles" are haemorrhoids! Perhaps "heaps" or "stacks"? (the latter name was used in Hypercard, so I guess Apple have the rights to that). Any other suggestions?

Cowboy Dan
Apr 16, 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by StuPid QPid
PS. Also I'm not sure about the name - "piles" are haemorrhoids! Perhaps "heaps" or "stacks"?

Um...I think pile, heap and stack are all synonymous enough for most people. I have lots of hemorrhoids and I've never called them piles...I'm assuming you are from a strange land based on your spelling "haemorrhoids" so maybe Apple will have market things a little differently where you are. It's that damn globalization you know...Chevrolet tried to sell a car called the Nova in latin-america back in the 70's or 80's...yeah, in spanish No Va means "doesn't go." I'm digressing. Piles sounds good to me.

word!

go to my site: http://homepage.mac.com/jedsundwall/mp3

joelc
Apr 16, 2003, 11:01 AM
My mother mentioned the other meaning of the word "piles," too. I hadn't made the association, but it apparantly does mean hemorrhoids. Otherwise, I like the name fine. Heaps is no good - it reminds me of a heap of ******. Stack is OK. In fact, stack sounds more organized than pile. You can throw something in a pile, but you stack things to organize them. A terribly messy desktop can already look like a pile, so it needs to have organized stacks of things instead.

dabirdwell
Apr 16, 2003, 11:03 AM
It would be sweet if the previewed item could be, while highlighted, temporarily displayed as the desktop background. So you could actually read a text document or see detail in a photo as you peruse a pile..

huckleup
Apr 16, 2003, 11:53 AM
"haemorrhoids"
That's the British spelling. Remember, they did invent the English language, so cut 'em some slack for not 'Americanizing' all their words.

Besides, it's dorky to complain about spelling errors in posts...

Kid Red
Apr 16, 2003, 11:54 AM
Great demo, does answer a few questions while creating additional ones. I, like a few mentioned above, have folders with 100's of images, so how BIG would this pile be? Also, how much a drag on the system would it be to animate 100's of jpg files and then give me the preview data if not an actual preview of the file?

It sounds like a cool idea for a folder with 6 text documents, but my PILES are mostly images in the 100's.

Doctor Q
Apr 16, 2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by dabirdwell
It would be sweet if the previewed item could be, while highlighted, temporarily displayed as the desktop background. So you could actually read a text document or see detail in a photo as you peruse a pile.. That's a brilliant idea. Are you listening, Apple? I don't live in Oklahoma, but if you are really an aspiring politician dabirdwell then I'll write you in on my ballot.

Other thoughts:

* If I have two monitors, maybe the preview should scale to fill one monitor while I mouseover each item in the pile on the other monitor.

* Maybe the longer you hold the mouse over an icon, the bigger or more detailed the preview information becomes, e.g., the quicktime movie preview loads after 3 seconds.

* If the name Piles is awkward, it's time to pick another word, e.g., bank, group, heap, hill, mound, mountain, pyramid, stack, store. Better yet, Apple should make up an entirely new word. iFolder? Or how 'bout Coaster (collection of apple stuff that exhibits relationships)?

cubist
Apr 16, 2003, 03:12 PM
Very nice demo.

It does look better than I expected.

How do I pull something out of the pile?

("Heap" is no good, because that has some computer-scientist definition about partial ordering, as does "stack". But "stack" has a library-science definition that might prove an interesting connection.)

dabirdwell
Apr 16, 2003, 04:06 PM
iStacks?

GUIduct
Apr 16, 2003, 04:24 PM
My Apple OSX spidey-sense tells me that piles will be very important to the new DB-driven file system.

Think about piles that are self-generating. Think about how this will Change Your Life.

pivo6
Apr 16, 2003, 04:27 PM
After reading some more posts after my original one, I see where piles can be beneficial. Since I use my iMac for at home stuff, I don't think it would be that helpful at this time, but maybe in the future.

I agree with everyone about the name *piles*. There has got to be a better name than that. I like the name stack, but that's just me.

rdas7
Apr 16, 2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by cubist
Very nice demo.

How do I pull something out of the pile?



I was about to say: you don't need to pull anything out of the pile, to open it you just hover over and release.

But then I realised you mean, how do you remove something from being in a pile, once you put it in.

Good question.

Up there with, what happens if you make a pile that's bigger than your screen? Does it stack up off the screen?

Perhaps piles will only be used for certain things? ie. maybe you will not be able to stack individual documents. Maybe they will only be able to be made by the OS automatically according to some scripts (like smart playlists in iTunes). Maybe there's a limit and if you try and add too many items to a pile, it'll tell you "Piles can only contain 10 documents. Please remove something from the pile before you add any further items". Maybe the pile get so tall it will collapse and the files will be strewn haphazardly all over your desktop. Hey, it happens.

arn
Apr 16, 2003, 04:35 PM
remember, this is only one person's interpretation

if you really want to know how it was described to work, read through the patent description.

arn

wwworry
Apr 16, 2003, 04:53 PM
nice demo. I think it demostrates nicely what we know about piles. It raises some questions though.

The mouse always ends up at the bottom of the pile, what if you want something at the top of the pile? And what if you have too many things in a pile? Does it file up the entire screen? Maybe Apple should open up the graphical representation of files on a computer to developers so that more people could have a shot at representing file data on the screen (though they probably would not do this).

It is nice to think that there are no such things as folders really, nor is there a desktop. How else can you make organization simple for the user?

rainman::|:|
Apr 16, 2003, 06:15 PM
I would imagine a pile's icon would be limited to the same 128x128 as other icons, so i wouldn't worry about it going off your screen. But I too wonder how one takes a file out of a pile... perhaps instead of clicking/holding on a pile to open it, you click and it explodes, then you can manipulate the files individually...

pnw

rdas7
Apr 16, 2003, 07:08 PM
Just thinking about it... two things:

1. either piles will be implemented in the dock only (which would be cool, since you would then open up space in the dock - pile your iMovie/iPhoto apps together into one "media" pile). On the document side (by the trash), you could put your own document piles. Restricting piles to the dock would resolve the issue (somewhat) of things going off the top of the screen. But then again, not everyone's got the dock at the bottom of the screen.

2. perhaps my perspective of the pile was wrong. What if instead of expanding UP, the pile expanded TOWARDS you (ie. along the Z axis?). Then we truly move towards a 3D interface and solve the question of "flowing off the screen"...

arn
Apr 16, 2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by rdas7
On the document side (by the trash), you could put your own document piles. Restricting piles to the dock would resolve the issue (somewhat) of things going off the top of the screen.

I don't see why the pile even needs to expand up at all... if you have a representation of the icon that is current selected next to it.

arn

scem0
Apr 16, 2003, 08:45 PM
wow! That is interesting. I look forward to Apple's version.

And for the person saying he wished the previews were of the
actual document, or web page, that slows down older computers
by a lot - so that isn't always the best thing. You gotta remember
us older-mac peeps. ;)

sXe
Apr 16, 2003, 10:11 PM
wow! that would be pretty cool to implement! i think that it would actually work well!

MacQuest
Apr 17, 2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by rdas7
2. perhaps my perspective of the pile was wrong. What if instead of expanding UP, the pile expanded TOWARDS you (ie. along the Z axis?). Then we truly move towards a 3D interface and solve the question of "flowing off the screen"...

WOW!! Now that is exciting!!

By expanding along the Z [depth] axis, it really would be like Apple's Project X [Hot Sauce] from the mid-late 90's. It would be like a fly through experience with the images coming at you in a 3-D like environment instead of simply being displayed along the typical 2-dimensional X or Y axis'.

The possibilities are ENDLESS!!:D

BaghdadBob
Apr 17, 2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by MOM
To those who find it hard imagine how this would be useful:

I think most computer savey folks have a very organized method of filing their stuff. They know their way around the hard drive and they may not see why piles (as demoed-I don't know any more about this) would help them out. However, I know many people who turn on their Mac and work off the desktop for everything. My Father for instance. He has me install software and all he want to know is what button to hit to start it. As for his files, they're all over the desktop where he can see them. I work at a University around a lot of medical doctors. Many are not that computer savy. They know how to start MS word etc. I've seen desktops that give me the chills. I commented to one recently (he had about 50 items scattered on his desktop) on his "mess." He said thats how he remembers the things he needs to work on. Just like the "piles" of paper on his desk. I can very easily imagine that piles technology as I understand it would fit perfectly with this method of visual/location on desktop filing. Its just the "desktop" metaphore taken further.

Good night all, MOM

You know, my dad was an Apple VAR for a long time (a real VAR, who would set up and service what he sold) and would also troubleshoot Macs for people -- he gave up doing PCs cuz he was sick of it, which is probably why he doesn't have much business around here anymore...this is kinda hicksville to sell people on Macs...anyway...

His desktop is and has always been a horrible mess too. He would probably use this feature. As a note, he was always in awe of how really well organized my HD was...I mean, he had his desktop COVERED with Icons, I would have maybe a handful (if I had been on the internet) and on top of that he has like 30-40+ folders at his root level, while I had nine (eight in an orbit around the system folder...pretty).

MOM does bring up a good point. This may not be a feature aimed at the power user -- or, in my dad's case (as I would consider him a power user) the organized power user...or, in my case (since I don't consider myself a power user, unless you're talking about PHOTOSHOP, BABY!) the organized user, period.

This is a feature aimed at the people who don't have time to learn where everything goes, or organize, whichever.

I mean, isn't that what Apple's always been about? Simple to learn. Accessible to everyone.

Considering this, I have decided I am now in favor of this feature. However, Apple still needs to throw a bone to the rest of us, and corporate america, for those interested in the welfare of the company. If they have spent time developing this feature but havn't addressed more functional organizational needs I would say they still need to get their priorities straight -- it is the corporations of this world who will change the market share of Macs, not the dishevelled, froed-out, brainwaves-pushing-at-thier-hair-folicles, no-time-to-think-about-my-computer scientist types.

Oh, and thanks to Mr. Das for the demo (is that a devotee name?). I think it will have more previewing than shown, but it's more work than I would have put in.

BaghdadBob
Apr 17, 2003, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by wwworry
The mouse always ends up at the bottom of the pile, what if you want something at the top of the pile? And what if you have too many things in a pile? Does it file up the entire screen? Maybe Apple should open up the graphical representation of files on a computer to developers so that more people could have a shot at representing file data on the screen (though they probably would not do this).


Personally I think the pile will shuffle, and in sort of an arc, mostly horizontal. If it worked exactly as shown large piles wouldn't be practical...maybe it will do this a few documents at a time, so you can shuffle through quickly and have a chance to see what you're looking for, but not expand to gargantuan heights.

As far as the Z-Axis goes, if it gave you more detail as you got closer that would be quite totally awesome...what a hog though!!!

bousozoku
Apr 17, 2003, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dude that demo is pretty weak. There has to be more for that to have a pattend.

That comment is impressively useless, even for you. The demo is not patented, only Apple's idea.

If you could make a better demo, you should show us all.

RandomDeadHead
Apr 17, 2003, 03:01 AM
Great demo. This would help me around the office greatly.

StuPid QPid
Apr 17, 2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by rdas7
perhaps my perspective of the pile was wrong. What if instead of expanding UP, the pile expanded TOWARDS you (ie. along the Z axis?). Then we truly move towards a 3D interface and solve the question of "flowing off the screen"...

Regarding my earlier comment about "piles" going off the top of the screen. If they made the pile expand towards you, then some of my folders would knock me off my chair ;)

PS. To those who questioned my earlier spelling of haemorrhoids. Yes I am British. I even have a rubber on the end of my pencil :D

The Reaper
Apr 17, 2003, 07:50 AM
to those who are unsure as to how the files will arrange themselves, note that panther is said to use extensive 'metadata'. this is similar to how iTunes can sort your files by bitrate, filesize etc, but it will be in the finder. piles are simply like 'smart playlists' in itunes, that accumulate and remove files according to criteria you set for each pile. imagine a pile with your "25 most used documents" or "Jpegs larger than 100kb, created after 12/03/03, used in the last month" etc. imagine the possibilities.

now, i'm sure most of you don't use your smart playlists in itunes very often, but such a feature in the finder will have a different order of functionality.

finally, to those worried about expanded views of piles going off the screen, just imagine that only 1 file is fully spaced out between the others, and the distance between floating icons decreases as you look above/below your cursor. imagine each pile is like a dock with magnification turned on, only vertical, and the sizes of the icons don't change, only the distance between them.

to those worried about older computers having difficulties with previewing the files within a pile, just imagine that each image has its preview BUILT IN to the icon. currently, for most images, the previews are generated 'on the fly' in Jaguar. this eats up processing power and places more demands on the hard drive, taking more time. this would cause piles to 'stick' when they are opening. if every file (ie images, text) had a small preview BUILT IN to the icon (or into its associated data), this would allow much faster performance. imagine that whenever a file is created, this preview is saved along with it. this can also apply to movies with a few seconds of a low res (128 by 128 max) preview movie. sure, this will add a little to file size (a REALLY tiny bit) but it will be worth it. of course, as in the current finder in column view, you will be able to see the full, larger previews such as movies at full size (in piles, when your cursor actally passes over each file), and this information will have to be taken from the file itself (on the fly). but the icon image/movie previews will be prerrecorded.

on another note, what do you think about putting more maginification in the finder in general? like waving your cursor over some small icons in a finder window and having them magnify?

rdas7
Apr 17, 2003, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by The Reaper
now, i'm sure most of you don't use your smart playlists in itunes very often, but such a feature in the finder will have a different order of functionality.

I'm curious about this: DO people actually use smart playlists? I personally can't imagine life without them!

I'm a HUGE fan of iTunes, so much so that I rate it as one of the top 5 reasons for people to buy a Mac - on the topic of Smart Playlists, I found these actually changed my relationship to my music collection. So I'm surprised to hear "I'm sure most of you don't use your smart playlists"...


on another note, what do you think about putting more maginification in the finder in general? like waving your cursor over some small icons in a finder window and having them magnify?

I think that there is a point at which over-abusing Quartz Extreme capabilities crosses over from "cool & useful" to "what's the point of that?". I can't help but feeling that if everything in the Finder had rollover magnification, you'd just get seasick sitting at your machine.

As for the points about "why the desktop metaphor"? I understand where you're coming from, but though a Gibson-esque version of cyberspace works great in movies/novels it is ultimately not very intuitive.

I wonder how many of us looking at vertically scrolling code would, in fact, be able to just see blonde, brunette, redhead...

bryanc
Apr 17, 2003, 11:09 AM
First, let me add my kudos on a nice demo...even if what Apple winds up implementing is very different, that little demo has really helped me picture how this would be useful.

In my experience, many intelligent and creative people are apparently very disorganized. Look at the desks or workshops of people you admire...frequently they appear to be very messy (stick your nose in the door of almost any molecular biology research lab, and you'll see a new definition of chaos). However, there is often a subtle underlying 'organic' organization that is apparent only to the occupant, and which allows them to find what they need in the apparent chaos with ease.

I think the 'pile' metaphor will be of enormous value to those of us who use that approach. Especially if we can use the BeOSish database filesystem to define automagically generated 'piles': "Things I've accessed in the past 2 hours" "DNA sequence files from the past two weeks" "PDFs downloaded from XYZ" "Email with attachments", "Microscope data files bigger than X made more recently than Y" etc.

This feature alone makes Panther look like $130 well-spent.

Cheers

Doctor Q
Apr 17, 2003, 01:20 PM
Let's not worry about the processor requirements of the new interfaces we are discussing, because

(1) Any new features will probably be optional, like dock magnification. You'll turn the features on only if your CPU can accomodate them.

(2) Even if only the newest Macs can support the new features efficiently, most of us will upgrade to a year-2003-or-later Mac eventually, as the Macs we have now get more and more out of date. So we all win in the end.

(3) Even if only the newest Macs can support the new features efficiently, it'll sell new Macs, Apple will keep making money, and we'll all benefit from their other innovations.

(4) We're just speculating, after all. We should let our minds be free from "programmer" issues like implementation and optimization.

beatle888
Apr 17, 2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dude that demo is pretty weak. There has to be more for that to have a pattend.

uh DUDE it was an example and non profit at that. if you need someone else to imagine the rest for you im sure he'll hold your hand through the visualization process for a fee.

beatle888
Apr 17, 2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by dabirdwell
iStacks?


shut up :D


just kidding.

beatle888
Apr 17, 2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by StuPid QPid

PS. To those who questioned my earlier spelling of haemorrhoids. Yes I am British. I even have a rubber on the end of my pencil :D


Pencil? is that what they call it in england? :cool:

MacQuest
Apr 17, 2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by StuPid QPid
...I even have a rubber on the end of my pencil :D

Well you just keep your rubber on your pencil, and your pencil in your pocket.

I don't wanna see it!:mad:

That goes for your "piles" too...:eek:

BaghdadBob
Apr 17, 2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by StuPid QPid
To those who questioned my earlier spelling of haemorrhoids. Yes I am British. I even have a rubber on the end of my pencil :D

This sounds like a comedy routine I heard once, I think it was Bill Maher (sp?). Have you ever asked someone to knock you up in the morning?

lmalave
Apr 19, 2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Cowboy Dan
...Chevrolet tried to sell a car called the Nova in latin-america back in the 70's or 80's...yeah, in spanish No Va means "doesn't go."

I hear the Nova example all the time (for example in my marketing class) but, really, too much was made of it. The same word "nova" is used in Spanish, and in fact this astronomical term has a Latin root. Yes, some comedian in the Latin world came up with the "No va" pun, but it's just that, a pun.

I mean, my grandpa had a Nova (man, those cars sucked), and I never once heard anyone in Puerto Rico ever bring up the whole "no va" thing.

TMay
Apr 19, 2003, 08:53 PM
I would use "piles" as I am one disorganized dude. Still, I would like to have the Finder Find menu auto create a script from a search to create an alias pile on my desktop based on various parameters.

example:

create a pile untitled of application appleworks all from 10 days ago.

add to pile untitled of application photoshop .jpg greater than 1.5 MB

You get the drift

voicegy
Apr 20, 2003, 07:20 PM
If this feature becomes a part of the OS that is optional to the user, then by all means, it's a wonderful thing.

Some people don't like it and won't use it because it's not they way they like to keep things "organized."

Some people will like it and use it because it IS they way they usually keep things "organized."

I, for one, would LOVE to have multiple screen shots or downloads all "pile up" in one place on the desktop instead of popping up all over the place. So much of my PHYSICAL desk consists of piles, but again, it's organized from MY perspective, the only one that matters.

Computers at their best try to emulate our work area and offer organizational look-and-feels to what we're used to...File Folders, Files, Folders within Folders, just like the real world. Until now, the "real" world wasn't well represented on the "desktop"...I may have a drawer full of organized folders and files IN my desk, but the deskTOP is where I keep things I'm currently working on, and it's usually a mess of piles, not laid out, side by side files...I'd simply not have the room. With this, its more "representational" and I liked the demo very, very much...even though it may not be even close to what the end product may be, it does give a beautiful representation of the concept. (thank you for creating that!)

maradong
Apr 21, 2003, 03:25 AM
apple, please use it that way. it s too cool

:)