are we able to counter centrino?

[jefhatfield]

wintel laptops now have the battery saving centrino processor/chipset and i am seeing them everywhere now

i know apple laptops have very good battery time, but do we need a "centrino" low power type of processor too?

just for a comparison, i bought a pc laptop and and an ibook in the same week in december, 1999 and both listed for $1599 us...the ibook laptop with original battery still gets more time on a single charge, three years and four months later...than the pc laptop did new out of the box;)

i still read pc laptop reviews that think that three hours on a single charge is great

[Foxer]

It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others. Of course it's Intel, so they'll market it well and the average buyer will think, "Oh this is the new thing." They'll beleive it is good beacsue they were told it is good.

Once again, I ask why Apple can't market their strengths. The Switch campaign was good, the ads were nice, but it should have only been one brick in the wall. Apple, you've got all this cash sitting about - spend it on advertising. And tell us why Macs are good, not why PCs are bad. Sell your strengths!

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Foxer
It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others. Of course it's Intel, so they'll market it well and the average buyer will think, "Oh this is the new thing." They'll beleive it is good beacsue they were told it is good.

Once again, I ask why Apple can't market their strengths. The Switch campaign was good, the ads were nice, but it should have only been one brick in the wall. Apple, you've got all this cash sitting about - spend it on advertising. And tell us why Macs are good, not why PCs are bad. Sell your strengths!

because apple is an island, they hang onto the cash and play it safe by not spending too much on advertising

the money is there for a rainy day, of which there have been many

the original vision and guts that apple had with the two steves is long gone...i think microsoft took away their fire

instead of computers for everyone like apples once were, now it's just, "computers for the rest of us"

it's sad but it's business and in that realm, microsoft is king...they won the war

at best apple can win a tiny battle here and a tiny battle there but never really catch the world of wintel...and at this point, would we want apple to be that big? (it's a good question but deep down inside i wish apple was the 95% percent market share)

i think steve jobs, business wise, is the reason apple even became a product...but at the same time, sj is also why apple didn't make it in the big leagues...not everyone is able to think as big as bill gates or mike dell

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by Foxer
It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others.
That's not quite true...the centrino ships are very efficient. In fact, they are almost like the AMD processors...get more done more efficiently at a lower clock speed.

I think apple's counter will simply be the 970.

[patrick0brien]

-Gents

One counter argument is that the Wireless feature is non-upgradable.

If you want to work on an 802.11a or 802.11g network? You need a PC card, or a new machine.

[iJon]

im gonna disagree with you, if we were 95% this would be windowsrumors.com and we would be trying to convert mac users to pc. i think apple goes for quality because they cant afford to lose. if i was microsoft all i would care about is money, not trying to make a superior product, they barely have anyone to compete with. but this may change with linux and apple crawling up their way.

iJon

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by iJon
im gonna disagree with you, if we were 95% this would be windowsrumors.com and we would be trying to convert mac users to pc. i think apple goes for quality because they cant afford to lose. if i was microsoft all i would care about is money, not trying to make a superior product, they barely have anyone to compete with. but this may change with linux and apple crawling up their way.

iJon

linux is a real threat since they are free or very low cost w/manual

apple is no threat to microsoft at this point...business wise...maybe apple will win more pretty os awards than microsoft, though;)

[DarkNovaMatter]

I don't know how much the current G4's use in power but even if they don't consume less than the new centrino we will have a good way to offset the centrino. The 970 at 1.2 ghz uses 19 watts (at 130 nm) the lowest I think the centrino can go at its 14 (I think, 24 watts for 1.4 ghz) and thats downclocking the processor to 700 or 800 mhz. Whats even more exciting is that imagine when the 970 will go to 90 nm (for the powerbooks I'm guessing they will go for that instead of the 130 nm version), lower power usage and faster speeds. I am sapposing that since its a 30% shrinking with going from 130nm to 90 nm that power usage will go down about the same percentage (the # of electrons needed to compute is directly related to the size of the chip, die size,etc.- thus the reason why shrinking the die size gives better scaling capabilities and reduced power needs). That means the 1.2 ghz will go from about 19 watts to about 12 or 13 watts. The future of Apple and Powerbooks verry bright with the 970, the other specs I am sure you already know of. :D

[G5orbust]

Centrino, as a product package (chip+ wireless), is very confusing deal fro the average consumer. First of all, they advertise this wireless technology as some new invention Intel cooked up while no one was looking. That was the impression it made on my father, which is unfortunate, because he was buying a computer at the time. The job of trying to convince him that the Centrino wireless crapola wasnt new fell upon me. Infact, this technology, as you all well know, is the 802.11b standard that was just added into the motherboard; an un-upgradeable attachment. Yes, Intel, with its brainwashing ads, did not allow my father the luxury of believeing me and my knowledge that allowed me to see right through the Intel ads. All he could say is that Centrino gets wonderful battery life and that he could go to millions of the adverstised "hot spots" and he was willing to pay more for that. It took me about a week and three individual computer magazine articles to snap him out of it. He seriously thought the wireless stuff was new- even though Apple has been doing it since the first Airport came out in very early 2001 (date may be a little off, but its close). That Centrino campaign is just Intel denying the public full information about their product and not allowing them to know that they are paying 5-10% more for a laptop that has built in wireless, when they could go down to their local PC club and pick up a better 802.11g card for around 100 bucks that would have better range, backwards compatability with 802.11b networks and would have more longevity than the crap Intel is building into their Centrino branded machines. And for better battery life? Buy a second one. If you are gunna do anything with your computer or are going on a long trip and dont plan to jsut play Solitare for 10 hours, a secord, or even third battery is a necessity.

We ended up buying him a nice, $999 Compaq- good enough for what he will do with it.

i just wanted to share my personal Centrino experience and I hope that the 970 will be not only Apple's response to Centrino, but to every other Intel desktop chip as well. And Darknovamtter is right- shrink the die, shrink energy usage, more battery life from the same battery. Its simple and will probably be implemented. Expect double digit laptop battery life hours if Apple shrinks the die. Also, if Apple shrinks the desktop die, that means less energy use, which means less heat given, which means high clock speeds for the same amount of heat the larger die was giving.

[firestarter]

Originally posted by G5orbust
Centrino, as a product package (chip+ wireless), is very confusing deal fro the average consumer. First of all, they advertise this wireless technology as some new invention Intel cooked up while no one was looking.

<snip uninformed rant>

Expect double digit laptop battery life hours if Apple shrinks the die. Also, if Apple shrinks the desktop die, that means less energy use, which means less heat given, which means high clock speeds for the same amount of heat the larger die was giving.

- Centrino is Intel's brand name which includes the processor and the low speed Intel WiFi card, usually on a mini-PCI card (like Apple's extreme). You need to ship Intel's card if you want to use the Centrino label, but most manufacturers give you the choice of upgrading. Dell let you swap the 'a' card for an 'a/g' card for nothing, which means they can still use Centrino branding, but give the customer what they want.

- So if you want battery life then carry extra betteries and get over it, but when Apple shrinks feature size then we'll teach 'em... Do you really think Intel will stay on the same feature size? They'll be the next step ahead...

- Interestingly, from the various Pentium M reviews, it seems that a lot of the gain in battery life comes from the chips speed. It gets a job done very quickly at full power, then throttles back while the OS waits for the next user input, so the low power nature is as much from increased smarts as from low power silicon.

[jefhatfield]

also the centrino has a different chipset

and mhz for mhz, it is faster than the pentium 4m

i really don't like intel, but i like this chip...it's not about speed, but about battery power and that is the KEY in laptop computing

[kaltsasa]

My buddy and I at work were interested in the centrino technology, we were confused as to what it was exactly. AFter much research we came to a few conclusions.

First, to be called a centrino laptop it must have 3 things

1. The Pentium M CPU
2. the new Intel 855 chipset family ("Odem," "Montara-GM")
3. A WLAN adapter in mini-PCI format called Calexico, which is based on the 802.11b/a standard.

Only notebooks with this whole package have Intel's approval to carry the name "Centrino Notebook."

The reviews on the current Centrino laptops look good, until we look at the price.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=rUyEzg0e3iWE8TO-dz-OxUIRETUkLs2IEo0=?CatalogCategoryID=smsKC0%2eNfWoAAAD03nCg86Aj&Dept=cpu

$ 2,199.99 for a sony viao with Centrino technology. For the price of one of these babys, go buy a Powerbook, or go buy a Regular P4M laptop and buy a couple extra batterys with the bling bling you save. The centrino is pure marketing BS from intel.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kaltsasa
My buddy and I at work were interested in the centrino technology, we were confused as to what it was exactly. AFter much research we came to a few conclusions.

First, to be called a centrino laptop it must have 3 things

1. The Pentium M CPU
2. the new Intel 855 chipset family ("Odem," "Montara-GM")
3. A WLAN adapter in mini-PCI format called Calexico, which is based on the 802.11b/a standard.

Only notebooks with this whole package have Intel's approval to carry the name "Centrino Notebook."

The reviews on the current Centrino laptops look good, until we look at the price.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=rUyEzg0e3iWE8TO-dz-OxUIRETUkLs2IEo0=?CatalogCategoryID=smsKC0%2eNfWoAAAD03nCg86Aj&Dept=cpu

$ 2,199.99 for a sony viao with Centrino technology. For the price of one of these babys, go buy a Powerbook, or go buy a Regular P4M laptop and buy a couple extra batterys with the bling bling you save. The centrino is pure marketing BS from intel.

when i saw some hp and compaq notebooks with centrino, they were about fifteen hundred only

but the equivalent pentium 4 laptop was no more than thriteen hundred

therefore centrino laptops, while clocked slower, are also more expensive...so they better give better battery time to make the product worth it...otherwise, it's really big time bs:p

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
when i saw some hp and compaq notebooks with centrino, they were about fifteen hundred only

but the equivalent pentium 4 laptop was no more than thriteen hundred

therefore centrino laptops, while clocked slower, are also more expensive...so they better give better battery time to make the product worth it...otherwise, it's really big time bs:p

yes. The Centrino chips are clocked much lower and are more expensive than their P4-M counterparts. But, in return, as you said, battery life is increaed dramatically. But, that battery life comes at a great performance loss. Say, you wanted to finish your novel you are writing while on a plane to Hong Kong from Los Angeles. Then you could get that stupendious battery life because you would be minimally taxing the system. On the other hand, if you wanted to do something like watch a DVD movie on battery power, it would perform like every other laptop- because regardless of waht anyone says, they still havent minimized the power usage of the disk drive.

While the Centrinos are faster (performance wise) than similarly or even higher clocked mobile Pentium 4's, most people dont understand that kind of thing- they assume higher clock speed= better performance, hands down. So, Intel just had to add some extra perks, like you said, to get people to buy.

[Gus]

AirPort has been around longer than since 2001, try 1998. Officially in all the products by late 1999, the iBook was the first to get it built in. Centrino is only dangerous BECAUSE of the marketing and the 400 lb. gorilla that Intel has become. It seems like every 5 minutes I see or hear that Centrino commercial. This is the battle that Apple has lost. I agree, that even as an island, (which they definitely are now), the only way to sell more, is to be seen more. You have to spend to make money, and Apple's ads never show people what the machines can do, just how cool they look. As dumb as people lugging around desks in order to go wireless is, it gets the idea across that these laptops will be wireless. It's all about getting the idea across and making it stick, and Intel is doing that quite well.

Regards,
Gus

[macktheknife]

Remember too that Centrino is more than just Airport and wireless networking for PC laptops. It is a completely redesigned processor that promises faster processing at lower clockspeed and less energy usage (and hence longer battery life). From the reviews that I have read thus far, the Centrino processors seem to hold great promise.

[herr_neumann]

I am just hoping the counter to this will be built in airport extreme with an internal expansion slot for future upgrades, when the 970 comes out that is. Maybe even bumb the airport extreme to support 802.11a too. Now that would allow apple to talk some ****...

[alexlai5050]

Centurio or whatever it is has a good market
there marketing team has done quite well like the non computer people i know go round saying im going to buy a laptop with that new processeuer in cus mines crap ad it runs flat in 2 hours
they mite be sucessful in there first quarter but later people mite start realiasing that it isnt that good for value

[i_wolf]

I suggest that some people here take a look at the anandtech review of the Pentium M and the Centrino technology. Excellent review. But any how what i tool from it was that like it or not this technology is a great thing. Means more thin and light but for once, thin and light will be in combination with power. For the majority of tests there the 1.6 Pentium M beat out the 2.4 (i think could have been 2.2) Pentium 4M by quite a large margin. Considering that apple are still using a slow G4 in their powerbooks, and furthermore considering that barefeats and digitalvideoediting has already showed dual G4's being killed by single P4's (granted desktop) this should be a source of worry for apple. Why? well apple could at the very least claim victory in battery life tests and thing and light which is important to a lot of individuals, now the centrino technology makes the wintel world take victory on the thin and light and the battery while still providing the traditional superpower of a high end Wintel combo.
Just my humble opinion however
Kind Regards,
i_wolf

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by i_wolf
I suggest that some people here take a look at the anandtech review of the Pentium M and the Centrino technology. Excellent review. But any how what i tool from it was that like it or not this technology is a great thing. Means more thin and light but for once, thin and light will be in combination with power. For the majority of tests there the 1.6 Pentium M beat out the 2.4 (i think could have been 2.2) Pentium 4M by quite a large margin. Considering that apple are still using a slow G4 in their powerbooks, and furthermore considering that barefeats and digitalvideoediting has already showed dual G4's being killed by single P4's (granted desktop) this should be a source of worry for apple. Why? well apple could at the very least claim victory in battery life tests and thing and light which is important to a lot of individuals, now the centrino technology makes the wintel world take victory on the thin and light and the battery while still providing the traditional superpower of a high end Wintel combo.
Just my humble opinion however
Kind Regards,
i_wolf

Exactly--you hit Centrino's potential (and Apple's problems) right on the head.

[alxths]

Indeed, its a big problem for apple, but supporters of PC laptops will probably be having our worries about a year down the road(not a great comparison, but you get the point). You can't expect everyone to come out with their new productst at the same time--they just take turns outdoing each other... Well, that's how I see it at least.

[Abstract]

I'm going to get a PC laptop because Apple doesn't give me a reason to do otherwise. :)

Oh, and don't give me the OSX vs WinXP speech, because I have never had a problem with WinXP. Some rare crashes when shutting down, but that's all. Like I have said in previous threads regarding laptops, Apple is now losing in every category where it competes with PC makers. At least we used to wear the crown in the laptop arena, but not anymore. I seriously hope Apple doesn't hold off on putting the 970 into their notebooks, and just put those babies in their entire Power line ASAP, because there's no time to waste.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Abstract
I'm going to get a PC laptop because Apple doesn't give me a reason to do otherwise. :)

Oh, and don't give me the OSX vs WinXP speech, because I have never had a problem with WinXP. Some rare crashes when shutting down, but that's all. Like I have said in previous threads regarding laptops, Apple is now losing in every category where it competes with PC makers. At least we used to wear the crown in the laptop arena, but not anymore. I seriously hope Apple doesn't hold off on putting the 970 into their notebooks, and just put those babies in their entire Power line ASAP, because there's no time to waste.
bye, have fun with xp. but yet at the end of your post you talk about apple putting a faster processor in the powerbook, sounds to me like apple does give you a reason to stay. we all know pcs are faster, so whats holding you back

iJon

[Abstract]

Only the possibility of them putting the 970 asap instead of putting them first in the PM's, and THEN into the PB's later on. I want to get a laptop, and I really don't mind getting a Windows laptop, but if the PB's and PM's are updated at the same time, then great. But if Apple chooses to update their PMacs with the 970 first, then update the PB's with a 1.25GHz instead of the 970, and then wait 6 months to finally update the PB's with the 970, then I'll take a PC laptop and not bother waiting. Centrino is a great technology, and I'm very surprised that Intel managed this. The only downside of getting a Centrino-equipped laptop is that its not a Mac.

[Sherman]

I'm actually quite sad for apple right now. They're basically killing themselves. It's really bad. I wish that once, JUST ONCE, Apple would hurry. They wouldn't lug along like they've got all the time in the world and actually take some fscking action.

970 already damn you!

[acj]

To clarify a few things, Centrino is the package that includes the not-so-spectacular wireless capabilities. Manufacturers can choose to provide another solution with the Pentium-M. And it's not like Intel is saying they invented wireless technology with Centrino, just like Apple isn't saying they invented it with AirPort.

About the Pentium-M, I think Apple does have something to worry about. It is appearing in some very attractive notebooks, and it beats even DUAL G4's in some speed tests, not to mention a single G4 in a PowerBook. And this is in its infancy!

One interesting thing is the battery life given by the manufacturer seems to be much more accurate than Apples. When was the last time you got the advertised 5 hours on your Powerbook? And how about DVD watching. The IBM T40 has been repeatedly tested to get nearly 5 HOURS of DVD playback!

[acj]

Originally posted by DarkNovaMatter
I don't know how much the current G4's use in power but even if they don't consume less than the new centrino we will have a good way to offset the centrino. The 970 at 1.2 ghz uses 19 watts (at 130 nm) the lowest I think the centrino can go at its 14 (I think, 24 watts for 1.4 ghz) and thats downclocking the processor to 700 or 800 mhz. Whats even more exciting is that imagine when the 970 will go to 90 nm (for the powerbooks I'm guessing they will go for that instead of the 130 nm version), lower power usage and faster speeds. I am sapposing that since its a 30% shrinking with going from 130nm to 90 nm that power usage will go down about the same percentage (the # of electrons needed to compute is directly related to the size of the chip, die size,etc.- thus the reason why shrinking the die size gives better scaling capabilities and reduced power needs). That means the 1.2 ghz will go from about 19 watts to about 12 or 13 watts. The future of Apple and Powerbooks verry bright with the 970, the other specs I am sure you already know of.

The Pentium-M can downclock to 600MHz and it uses just 6 watts. Sure that's slow but it will play a DVD smooth (see above post) and it is for all practical purposes instant at changing the clock speed based on need. It constantly changes the speed and proves to be a very efficient way of providing performance with low power usage.

And 90 nm? It's not only IBM who'll be doing this.

[acj]

Even something that demands max performance and no throttling gets good battery life...

tomshardware has some link breaking technology so it's pictures aren't stollen. Check it out yourself to see the benchmarks if you care.

[macktheknife]

I have been looking at Dell's Pentium-M offerings, which you can check out here:

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_m_inspn600m.htm

AnandTech basically puts the speed of the 1.6 GHz Pentium-M on par with the 2.2 - 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 Mobile Edition, with the 1.5 GHz Pentium-M falling somewhere within the 2.0 - 2.2 GHz range. You can read the full review here (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1800&p=1).

Pretty nice, IMHO. I think Intel's on to something here.

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by macktheknife
I think Intel's on to something here.


Yes, its called making/clocking chips like AMD and Apple have for years now. And look what its getting them.

[iJon]

I think intel has got us beat on this one. I was looking at the latest pc guide and the reviewed the centrino laptops. The Toshiba which has a 15 inch screen and more stuff like a regular laptop got 7 hours of battery life, thats incredible.

iJon

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by iJon
I think intel has got us beat on this one. I was looking at the latest pc guide and the reviewed the centrino laptops. The Toshiba which has a 15 inch screen and more stuff like a regular laptop got 7 hours of battery life, thats incredible.

iJon

yeah, but was it made of ALYOUMINUM????

[jxyama]

For most not technically savy people, upgradeability is not really an issue. So they will be sold on the WiFi part. They will be happy that their computer is connected to the Internet and there's no PC card sticking out from the side, as many do right now. They won't even realize that it's the slowest wireless standard because they don't know any better.

Battery life is the same. Not many of them need 7 hours, but they will just figure longer the better, regardless of the need. (The same mechanism that feeds more GHz the better, even just to check email and surf the web. Or to purchase a monstrosity SUV with a V12 that can navigate the frozen tundra and sand dunes to be used for grocery shopping.)

Intel is a good brand for being recognized by most of the public. From our point of view, their campaign is quite shrewed and tacky, but I think they will be quite successful. I hope Apple will at least hold its current place and not get squashed by Wintel junk campaign.

...I almost worked for Intel. I sure am glad I don't. :p

[firestarter]

Originally posted by jxyama
For most not technically savy people, upgradeability is not really an issue. So they will be sold on the WiFi part. They will be happy that their computer is connected to the Internet and there's no PC card sticking out from the side, as many do right now. They won't even realize that it's the slowest wireless standard because they don't know any better.

And frankly, they won't notice the difference. 802.11b is an OK speed, and unless you have a VERY fast connection, it's probably 5x faster than your ADSL/cable. At a coffee shop you'll be limited to 802.11b anyway. The only time you'll need the faster connection is if you're connecting to file servers in your house, and if you're doing that you're probably savvy enough to tick the '802.11g' box when you're ordering your laptop (with Dell you get to swap out the standard card for a better one for example).


Battery life is the same. Not many of them need 7 hours, but they will just figure longer the better, regardless of the need. (The same mechanism that feeds more GHz the better, even just to check email and surf the web. Or to purchase a monstrosity SUV with a V12 that can navigate the frozen tundra and sand dunes to be used for grocery shopping.)

Well longer is better. At least it was when Apple had the longest battery times. Is that hipocracy I smell?


Intel is a good brand for being recognized by most of the public. From our point of view, their campaign is quite shrewed and tacky, but I think they will be quite successful. I hope Apple will at least hold its current place and not get squashed by Wintel junk campaign.

Whatever. They've just released chips that are a lot faster and more powerful, and they've got the PC laptop manufacturers to jump on board with wireless. They deserve the success they get.

...I almost worked for Intel. I sure am glad I don't. :p
Oh please.

[macktheknife]

As many posts have mentioned, what Intel is touting for Centrino in their ads (wireless networking) is not something totally new. Nonetheless, the entire architecture of the Pentium-M (the new Pentium mobile processors) is new, and many PC reviewers have heaped praise upon praise on the new chip's processing power.

If the benchmarks could be believed, the 1.6 GHz Centrino Pentium-M processors can perform on par with a 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 Mobile processor. This is very impressive, and I would be interested to see how the current 1 GHz G4 lineup stacks up against the Centrinos.

[jxyama]

ha ha, firestarter... good name. got me riled up. :D

the main problem i have with intel is the fact they have such a strong alliance with microsoft. i have used windows, linux, unix (in various flavors) and mac (x and older) in varying degrees and it is my personal opinion that windows is absolutely the worst os for average consumers and microsoft is the worst developer/provider of os.

i am not a developer, an administrator or an it manager. i use computers for everyday tasks and wish that more people could avoid using windows and microsoft because it tends to make computers clumsy and a pain to deal with.
(please, don't reply on how windows isn't so bad, you won't convince me, just like i won't convince you.) this is after two pcs just mysteriously died within three years on my mom, who never installed any programs and used computers to check email twice a day and look at some webpages. :mad:

anyway, anything that sells intel would sell more microsoft. that's why i have a problem with intel. this is strictly a personal opinion and extremely biased (i never claimed not to be), and for that reason, i cannot support intel. i wish more people would have a better access to better computing experience and intel, as i see it, is not helping that cause. (don't even get started on telling average users to just install linux if they don't like windows.)

however, you are right. i think intel will do quite well with this campaign. that doesn't mean i have to agree with the success or the cause. i guess i am being a little idealistic... these are companies, afterall, they want $$$ more than help people have a good time. (yeah, yeah, i know, apple is a corporation too...) sigh.

[evilsprung]

Hi all,
I'm a mac newbie, just bought a 12" PB about 3 weeks ago, and after reading your posts I;d have to say they're all pretty biased and trivial. What does it matter that the Centrino might be out the Apple's G4 or 970?. Seriously, I believe its such a trivial gripe. I'll admit I owned more PC's than Macs, but it's not like I'm hoping Intel is gonna win or Apple. In the end they're both processors, but with different architectures. And likewise each has it's own strengh and weaknesses. This kind of battle should be left for the companies, putting it on the consumer level I think is just retarded. In any case, I'm impressed with both architectures, and I love my G4 as much as I love my P4.
I don't know, that's just what I think. Take it with a grain of salt if you want.

[vniow]

I was sitting here last nite reading the AnandTech review and was thouroughly impressed with the overall design of the chip and how innovative and well performing it was (the 1.6Ghz Banias matched a 2.4Ghz PIV desktop chip in some benchmarks!http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=251718)
And I was also impressed with the battery life until I found out how it accomplished it:

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1800&p=8

Take a look at the bottom chart and you'll see that while it's going to run at full speed when its plugged into the wall, it will also throttle down to 600Mhz on battery life.
Which is no big suprise really, all of Intel's mobile chips use that Speedstep technology and while 600Mhz may be enough for basic tasks (even watching a DVD) if you do a lot of CPU intensive work while you're on the road, then an Intel based notebook is not for you.

Other than that the Banias is an amazing chip, I just with it didn't lose so much power on the battery.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by evilsprung
Hi all,
I'm a mac newbie, just bought a 12" PB about 3 weeks ago, and after reading your posts I;d have to say they're all pretty biased and trivial. What does it matter that the Centrino might be out the Apple's G4 or 970?. Seriously, I believe its such a trivial gripe. I'll admit I owned more PC's than Macs, but it's not like I'm hoping Intel is gonna win or Apple. In the end they're both processors, but with different architectures. And likewise each has it's own strengh and weaknesses. This kind of battle should be left for the companies, putting it on the consumer level I think is just retarded. In any case, I'm impressed with both architectures, and I love my G4 as much as I love my P4.
I don't know, that's just what I think. Take it with a grain of salt if you want.

-evilsprung

You may be evil, you may be sprung, but you're a breath of fresh air.

Very well said. We can use more of that perspective around here.

[bokdol]

something strage was happening while i was reading the last sundays washington post. the were talking about the new wifi technology from intel and how wifi is change the way people use their computers. there was no mention about airport or airport extreme or the difference between a/b or g. after skimming through it (did not get a chance to read it all) it seems like with your pc and "wifi" you can get on the internet faster and better then most home connections. and it portable. there was not mention of compatablity of macs and airport. actually nothing at all on macs. these articals in major news papers influence the way people see things andhow people view computers.

as far as the average joe who reads this article thinks. intel made this new wireless feature call wifi. and centrino makes your laptop run longer. and centrino is faster then moblile p4. which every one knowes that p4 are faster then apple computers... ...... so on and so on

from what i can tell it well be harder and harder to switch people as people think intel comes out with new technology and apple just sits there....:confused:

[jxyama]

Interesting, Vniow... PB/iBook does the same, but I think we get a choice on whether to run at reduced CPU or not... 600 MHz, eh? I guess Intel won't mention that too loudly. Will that make Pentium-M's slower than G3 and G4s? :D

I think everyone should make the CPU run at 1 MHz on battery and claim 3 days as the battery life. :p


Marketing/performance aside, I like the fact Intel went back and designed this chip from the group up. Now, only if Microsoft would quit the bloat and build a real OS from group up, I'd switch back... Nah, I think I'll stick with OS X. I like blue aqua. :P

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by bokdol


from what i can tell it well be harder and harder to switch people as people think intel comes out with new technology and apple just sits there....:confused:

if you list the innovations apple has produced, it is amazing

but when you realize that everything else was done in the wintel world, yeah i know - lots of pc companies, one sees why people use pcs

centrino is great...maybe not as much as intel says, but their ads get the word out and i am sure there are a lot of laptop users on the market who will find centrino irresistable

as time goes on, the prices will go down for centino laptops

[bokdol]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
if you list the innovations apple has produced, it is amazing


it is amazing!! but if you dont realize apple has it or even uses it then there is a problem.
i bet you most people would not know airport and wifi is compatable and airport extreme is at least twice as fast as wifi. (a /b to g standards) but they wont know... :rolleyes:

[acj]

Originally posted by jxyama
Interesting, Vniow... PB/iBook does the same, but I think we get a choice on whether to run at reduced CPU or not... 600 MHz, eh? I guess Intel won't mention that too loudly. Will that make Pentium-M's slower than G3 and G4s? :D


Agh!

You don't understand, it constantly changes the clock speed based on demand, and it does this very quickly and very efficiently. That's why it performs just as well unplugged, AND gets good battery life.

This is of course when you have power management set on "Laptop" and not "Max battery" Don't stop reading, listen... if you do word processing or whatever, you will get the SAME battery life with either setting. If you play games or do something that is CPU intensive, you will get MAX performance but lower battery life.

SO: "Max battery" setting locks the CPU at 600MHz. Essentially pointless because you will need the laptop on longer to complete intesive tasks, and the next setting can last just as long. read on.

"Laptop" setting constantly changes between 600MHz-1.6GHz (or whatever the max is) This means most of the time it's at 600MHz, because that's enough for most tasks. When you load a program, compress a file, run a photoshop command, play a game, etc, the CPU cranks up the speed only while needed.

"Max performance" locks the CPU at it's highest speed. This is stupid, because "Laptop" setting appears exactly as fast because it IS as fast when needed, but saves battery when not being used.

A final misconception is that it only has good battery life when sitting Idle. Unfortunately, this is only true of the Powerbooks. The Pentium-M based notebooks get great battery life even when gaming. As I mentioned before, some, like the IBM T40, get almost 5 hours when watching a DVD! That's more than twice as good as a powerbook.

It really is the year of the notebook. But not for Apple.

[iJon]

[i]Battery life is the same. Not many of them need 7 hours, but they will just figure longer the better, regardless of the need. (The same mechanism that feeds more GHz the better, even just to check email and surf the web. Or to purchase a monstrosity SUV with a V12 that can navigate the frozen tundra and sand dunes to be used for grocery shopping.) [/B]
saying they dont need that much battery life is basically admitting defeat. i would love to be able to take my laptop out of school and not have to string power adpters across the floor for people to trip, hell i just dont want to get it out period. i can lay in my bed with out a power adapter strung across the bed. and with that you could probably watch a full movie that is longer than an hour and a half on the laptop. but the still the weight, size, and looks make it unatractive. but for a windows user it is one hell of a laptop.

iJon

[firestarter]

Originally posted by jxyama
ha ha, firestarter... good name. got me riled up. :D

I must be doing something right :D


(please, don't reply on how windows isn't so bad, you won't convince me, just like i won't convince you.)

You don't need to convince me. Just ordered my 12inch PowerBook yesterday.

Apple does a lot of good things. I'm a Unix programmer, and I really want to start using OSX, rather than W2K. But just because Apple is doing stuff right (right enough for me to part with some hard earned ca$h) doesn't mean that we need to pretend Centrino is a bad product. It's a fantastic processor, coupled with an average WiFi card and a dodgy advertising campaign. Apple need to stay focussed - too much Mac fan adulation is bad for them.

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by firestarter
Apple does a lot of good things. I'm a Unix programmer, and I really want to start using OSX, rather than W2K. But just because Apple is doing stuff right (right enough for me to part with some hard earned ca$h) doesn't mean that we need to pretend Centrino is a bad product. It's a fantastic processor, coupled with an average WiFi card and a dodgy advertising campaign. Apple need to stay focussed - too much Mac fan adulation is bad for them.

We need more reasoned thinking like this to not let Apple take its customers for granted. Whatever one may think of Intel's Centrino advertising campaign, the fact that the Pentium-M has received lots of praises in the industry for its new architecture, incredible processor speed, and longer battery life is something Apple and its customers need to pay attention to.

We can argue until our faces are blue that Apple was the first to come out with WiFi computing for the masses (or whatever). But at the end of the day, Apple still needs to compete against Dell, HP, IBM, etc. for the hearts and cash of potential customers. Should we thumb our noses at the latest offerings from Honda or Toyota just because Ford was the first company to mass produce the automobile? :confused:

Personally, I am seriously considering switching back to a PC after doing some research and reading some articles by Anandtech and Tom's Hardware touting the Centrino's performance. I am sure that many other potential customers like me (switchers and potential switchers) are also looking at Centrino. Apple laptops already have WiFi capabilities, it just needs to demonstrate that its computers have enough raw processor power to compete against Intel's offerings.

[jxyama]

Hey y'all... Thanks for the education. Love learning more stuff. :) I love Apple, but I sure don't want to be blindly faithful.

[AndyNotts]

Sorry but why does Apple need to combat centrino? I've seen the reviews of Toshiba and Acer laptops and neither of them in tests has lasted more than 2 hours. My iBook can run over 3 hours so where is the competiton?

Intel has even dropped pushing MHz as they claim the slower centrino processors have greater performance than the regular mobile P4's.

[Cubeboy]

Originally posted by AndyNotts
Sorry but why does Apple need to combat centrino? I've seen the reviews of Toshiba and Acer laptops and neither of them in tests has lasted more than 2 hours. My iBook can run over 3 hours so where is the competiton?

Intel has even dropped pushing MHz as they claim the slower centrino processors have greater performance than the regular mobile P4's.

Umm, your looking at the wrong processor there buddy. Why don't we compare a Centrino equipped laptop to the best powerbook.

Processor:
PowerBook: G4 1ghz
IBM T40: Pentium-M 1.6ghz +

Memory:
PowerBook: PC2700 DDR 512mb
IBM T40: PC2100 DDR 512mb/2gb +

Video Card
PowerBook: Geforce4 440 Go - 64 mb
IBM T40: Mobile FireGL 9000 - 64 mb +

Hard Drive
PowerBook: 60 GB 4200 RPM ATA-100
IBM T40: 40 GB 5400 RPM ATA-100 +

Size (HxWxD):
PowerBook: 1.0" x 15.4" x 10.2"
IBM T40: 1.0" x 12.2" x 10" +

Weight:
PowerBook: 6.8lb
IBM T40:4.9lb +

Battery Life:
PowerBook: 4.5 hours
IBM T40: 7.0 hours +

Wireless:
PowerBook: 802.11g, BT, IRDA +
IBM T40: 802.11a/b, BT, IRDA

USB:
PowerBook: 2 x 1.1
IBM T40: 2 x 2.0 +

Price:
PowerBook: $3,299.00 +
IBM T40: $3,349.00

Warranty
PowerBook: 1 year
IBM T40: 3 years +

Let's see, the T40 is smaller, lighter, much faster, runs 2.5 hours longer, and has a better warranty.

The PowerBook has superior wireless capabilities, OSX and costs 50 dollars less.

The shining point of Centrino is the Pentium M as it offers Pentium 4 level performance without the power usage. And no, Intel is still going with mhzs, the Prescott (Pentium 5) set to launch in 2h of 2003 will scale to 5 ghzs even though clock to clock, it will be significantly better than the current P4.