Leopard At Macworld San Francisco? Intel and iTV (Viiv)?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to MacNewsWorld columnist Rob Enderle, Apple may be preparing to launch Leopard at MacWorld San Francisco (http://www.macnewsworld.com/rsstory/53950.html). Steve Jobs had previously announced at this year's WWDC that Leopard would ship in Spring 2007 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060807161421.shtml), however Enderle believes the release will be pushed up to take as much spark away from Microsoft's release of Vista as possible.

It looks like this puppy is nearly ready if I'm reading the signs right -- and Apple is clearly setting up for something big.

Also mentioned is Intel's involvement with the iTV.

(Ed. Note: Presumably regarding the iTV) Now Intel's part goes beyond the chip and appears to contain elements of Viiv, if not all of that platform. Viiv is actually kind of cool, it's just that Intel has not been able to explain effectively what it is and, as a result, the market hasn't been particularly excited about it on Windows. However, Apple knows how to sell and with a problem where the technology is good but the marketing's not, Apple has the skills to make a huge contribution.

Rumors of Apple using Intel's Viiv media platform have been circulating since late last year (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/12/20051204233043.shtml), culminating with rumors regarding supposed Apple Viiv 40 and 50" displays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060106171732.shtml). Apple has yet to release any Viiv-branded product, although a $1 million contest (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060926173248.shtml) announced at Intel's recent developer forum for the best Viiv design has regained some interest in the rumor.

[longofest]

This guy is an unknown, hence page2. Also, to me it seems as though there is still a bit of work to go on Leopard (despite it coming along nicely), so I'm not putting a ton of faith in this one.

[tvguru]

If this is true. There could be a lot of one more thing....'s

[SiliconAddict]

I'm starting to wonder if Jobs was full of bleep when he said other top secret things we can't show you. I wonder if this is the same as those "hidden features" on the iPod that were talked up a few years ago and then immediately nothing came of it. We'll see. :(

[crees!]

Show me the money. That's all I ask for.

[BoyBach]

I expect a demo of Leopard at Macworld, but not a launch. iLife and iWork '07, iTV (or whatever it's eventually called) and possibly the Apple phone ('one more thing') will be enough to launch in January!

[BenRoethig]

Is Leopard in the Release Candidate stage or still in beta? If it's still in beta, there is no way it could be ready in time for January.

[BRLawyer]

Enderle used to be a Windows fanboy...what has changed? :rolleyes:

[shawnce]

Leopard still has a ways to go... I doubt it will show up in January. Apple has little real reason to rush it out the door.

They will show it off in January but they wont ship it that early.

[MarcelV]

I'm starting to wonder if Jobs was full of bleep when he said other top secret things we can't show you.
If Viiv will be integrated in Leopard, I guess it count as one of those secret things. As far as I know, it's not integrated in Windows Media Center, it's on top of the OS, just another layer of GUI. But on Apple, it can be build within Leopard AND with full hardware support. Can be major.....

[MacSA]

Leopard still has a ways to go... I doubt it will show up in January.

How do you know? We've heard very little about Leopard since it was previewed.

[MacBoobsPro]

If this is true. There could be a lot of one more thing....'s


"Oh and there are four more things... Boom!"

[spyinthesky]

Enderle used to be a Windows fanboy...what has changed? :rolleyes:

There's only so much bull ***** you can spout before some sense seeps through. However it has to be said with him it is likely to be but a fleeting moment of sanity before normal service (service being the operative word) is resumed.

[matthemercyless]

I'm gunna keep the faith on this one. I'm not sure that Leopard will be released in January, but theres nothing to stop Apple from announcing a release date. They may just say it will be shipping in Feb/March. :D

Have Microsoft set a specific release date for Vista yet?? Or is the release date still "Early 2007" Apple still may be able to beat them to market.:cool:

I still think there's gunna be some exciting stuff released.:)

Can anyone explain to me what Viiv actually is or does?:confused:

[shawnce]

How do you know? We've heard very little about Leopard since it was previewed.

I know :)

(was at WWDC 06, I know what is expected and what is left unfinished... now Apple could deliver things that are missing in a point release but I doubt they would find the need to do that)

[twoodcc]

i would love to see Leopard at Macworld.

i might end up buying an iTV eventually also if it turns out good

[Chris Bangle]

I was hoping and thinking the exact samething.... Thats why they pretended that leopard was so incomplete at wwdc come on leopard in january

[iJaz]

Enderle used to be a Windows fanboy...what has changed? :rolleyes:

I think most Windows fanboys like Enderle, Thurrott et. al actually are Apple admirers. However, they show it public to different degrees.

[hvfsl]

I expect a demo of Leopard at Macworld, but not a launch. iLife and iWork '07, iTV (or whatever it's eventually called) and possibly the Apple phone ('one more thing') will be enough to launch in January!

I think the 'one more thing' will be the next gen iPod since I can't see it coming out before Christmas now.

Also about Leopard, I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Apple said it will not be launching it at MWSF.

[mattbray]

If there's one thing we know about Steve is that he will do whatever he wants whenever he wants. If Leopard is ready in January he'll release it; if not he won't. Having said that I don't think Leopard will be ready in January (although I'm not a developer). The good thing about Apple is that they are very quick to fix bugs in the OS. I think the frequent "." updates for OSX could allow Apple to release Leopard earlier than planned. As for Viiv I think the biggest thing is going to be the integration of FrontRow and the iTunes Store and PVR capability. The thing Apple is going to school Microsoft on is how to make everything seamlessly integrated.

I can't believe the press hasn't made more of a to-do about the price on Vista. Holy crap. They neuter the cheaper versions so that they'll sell more of the expensive software.

Even if Apple were to increase the price (and there would be tons of pissed off loyals) it would still be about half of Vista.

Things I'm looking forward to:
A (Red)Macbook
Leopard by March
iPhone

[RichardEM]

I don’t see Leopard ready in January. Possibly in March for the French show but more likely for WWDC if it is heal at it’s usual time. They want to make sure that it hits the floor running and with the leat amount of problems.

Also I think that this is the time table for hardware reasons. I will explain.

At this time both the Mac Mini and the MacBook will run Leopard in 32 bit mode not 64. This will limit what can be done on those platforms with Leopard.

I think that Apple will want all of it’s hardware to work with Leopard in 64 bit mode so they can show off what loepard can do.

In order to do this Apple will have to wait for the next version of Core 2 Duo. According to Intel that is due about April 2007 along with the corresponding chip sets. This will allow the iMac and the MacBook Pro to be shipped with the new chip sets and the Mac Mini and MacBook to get the current chip set.
Also the next version of the woodcrest chip set will be out.

All of the new chips will probably have SSE 4. This will be a close equialent to the velocity engine from the G4, better than the one on the G5, and I doubt the MS has developed Vista with that in mind. They will probably wait for their first service pack.

[BRLawyer]

Can anyone explain to me what Viiv actually is or does?:confused:

Honestly? Viiv means NOTHING, apart from a very generic set of Media Center-like specs. In fact, it's just another buzzword created by Intel.

[hyperpasta]

Have Microsoft set a specific release date for Vista yet??

Yes: January of 2007

I hope it gets pushed to March, Apple puts out Leopard THE NIGHT BEFORE, and rubs it in Microsoft's face with an ad.

[GregA]

i would love to see Leopard at Macworld.
I'd love to see it, but I have my doubts. I have great hopes that Apple has done some great things with the finder and with the iHome concept (combined with Time Machine)... the lack of change in these in the previews is surprising, so I think it's the "top secret stuff".

So could Apple release a different finder without going through previews? I would think this would be difficult, though they may have a select few thousand developers using whatever they're developing.

The best chance, I think, is that Apple will preview their new OSX with all secrets revealed, with a release candidate ready to go and if all goes well a final product shortly after. Who knows, they may even build in their bittorrent-like file sharing for downloads and sell the whole thing online.

[dr_lha]

This guy is an unknown, hence page2. Also, to me it seems as though there is still a bit of work to go on Leopard (despite it coming along nicely), so I'm not putting a ton of faith in this one.

He's not unknown at all, in fact he's quite well known. Unfortunately he's well known for spouting utter crap, so this should be taken with a pinch of salt. I.e. definitely Page 2 material!

Just to illustrate my point:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/search/results/27a9d6527cedf017d44c0203059919da/

[lookmark]

Rob Enderle?

Good grief.

Anything from him belongs on Page 8.

[Stella]

There is very little reason for Apple to release the next OS/X so soon.

Everyone is expecting OSX around Spring. Apple should give plenty of time for debugging and general readiness.

Tiger was a disaster at release - way too many bugs. Don't let this happen to Leopard.

[Baumi]

...with a problem where the technology is good but the marketing's not, Apple has the skills to make a huge contribution

This shows how far Apple has come since the Dark Days(tm) - remember the early 90s-Apple? It had all that cool technology, but lousy marketing...

Jens

[daneoni]

Duh its no surprised that Jobs likes to beat deadlines. Its blatantl obvious that Leopard would ship before spring and i guess viiv will tie in with iTV

[Anonymous Freak]

Viiv is Intel's "Home PC" equivalent of Centrino. It is a marketing term made up to describe something that already exists; only in order to use the marketing term, you have to use all Intel equipment. (They also have a business-PC equivalent, "vPro".)

Viiv is simply a label that PC manufacturers can slap on any computer that uses an Intel dual-core processor, Intel main chipset, Intel network chip, and has 'Media PC' capabilities (basically, any PC that uses Microsoft's Windows Media Center Edition OS.) If Intel were to allow Front Row as an acceptable replacement for Media Center, and Apple were to use Intel network chips instead of whomever they use now, the iMac and Mac mini at least would qualify.

Intel just offers some web-based benefits to computers that qualify as 'Viiv' computers. Just like when the Pentium 3 first came out, they offered some web-based stuff to Pentium 3 owners, even though there was no technical reason why the stuff wouldn't work with other computers. (Like Skype's 10-person conferences that were artificially limited to Intel computers.)

Just like Centrino. Centrino just means Intel Pentium-M or Core (x) Solo/Duo processor, Intel chipset, and Intel wireless card. Apple doesn't use Intel wireless cards, so MacBooks and MacBook Pros don't qualify as Centrino. (As an example, I bought an HP laptop that came with a Celeron-M processor, but DID have an Intel wireless card. It was not 'Centrino' qualified. All I did was upgrade the processor to a Pentium-M, and now it passes Intel's Centrino test utility.)

Does this marketing work? Well, the jury is out on Viiv, it doesn't seem to hold the same cache as Cenrino. But, my dad works at a large nationwide company, and is the person who orders all new hardware and software, company-wide. When Centrino first came out, a VP told him he wanted a Centrino laptop because it was good. My dad told him that all their new laptops had Pentium M processors, and had third-party 802.11a/g hardware, when at the time, Centrino was 802.11b-only. So the hardware they were buying was BETTER than Centrino. This VP insisted that Centrino was better, because the ads in his executive magazines said so, so he wanted a Cenrino laptop. Well, the manufacturer that the company had contracts with didn't offer 'real' Centrino laptops yet, so my dad had to go order them from a different manufacturer, making this VP the only one in the company with his model of laptop. Well, a year later, when the laptop broke, he had to wait a couple weeks for a replacement, since they didn't have in-company spares, the way they did with the non-Centrino models.

Epilogue: Will we see 'Viiv' in Apple products? Not a chance. Apple hates using other companies marketing terms, just look at 'Altivec'. Apple invented their own term for Motorola's vector instruction set, rather than use Motorola's name. Apple can get support hardware (network cards) cheaper when they go through third party companies, the way they do now with both wireless and wired network cards, which would make their products not qualify as 'Viiv' or 'Centrino' anyway. Apple already eschewed 'Centrino', which would have brought marketing dollars from Intel; why would they use Viiv? There is no technical anything behind Viiv, just marketing. And Apple prefers to control their own marketing. (Plus, Viiv isn't even publicly known that well. Centrino was already a major 'brand', so if they weren't going to go with a known brand, why would they throw their weight behind an unknown one?)

[Peel]

(Ed. Note: Presumably regarding the iTV) Now Intel's part goes beyond the chip and appears to contain elements of Viiv, if not all of that platform.


I highly doubt that Apple would go with a complete system from intel. If they did there would be nothing to stop competetor's products from flooding the marketplace, once Apple spent their resources opening up the market for it.

Can you imagine if that had been the case for the iPod?

[superleccy]

Viiv is Intel's "Home PC" equivalent of Centrino. It is a marketing term made up to describe something that already exists; only in order to use the marketing term, you have to use all Intel equipment. (They also have a business-PC equivalent, "vPro".)

(snip)

Well put, and great story!

Here is what Intel's own Website says about Viiv:

Intel® Viiv™ technology is Intel's premier brand for consumer PCs designed for digital entertainment.

PCs based on Intel® Viiv™ technology are built with Intel's high performance dual-core processors, chipsets, networking silicon, and special software. These PCs are complemented by online entertainment services and applications that have been verified to work with Intel Viiv technology - enabling you to access great content like movies, music, videos and even games online. You select what you enjoy and control when you enjoy it.
So... is there anything there that you can't do already with a Mac? No.

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Apple would do well to tell Intel where to stick their Viiv. Neither Apple's brand nor user experience needs strenghening by Intel.

SL

[Anonymous Freak]

Well put, and great story!

And 100% true. This is the same VP that earlier told my dad that when ordering new computers, not to get laptops for someone unless they already had a laptop, because if they didn't already have one, they obviously didn't need one. No exceptions. Well, my dad promptly cancelled the order for this VP's laptop, since he had a desktop at the time. When his new desktop arrived, and was put in, he went to my dad and asked why he didn't get a laptop like all the other VPs... "Well, sir, you said that people only are to get a laptop if they presently have one. No exceptions. You, sir, had a desktop."

My dad has the advantage of reporting to all 5 (or is it 6 now?) VPs, so no one VP can fire him. :D (It also helps that he's been there for over 35 years, since just before I was born.)

[p0intblank]

I would be so happy if "Leopard" was released at next year's Macworld. That would be so awesome of them and it would definitely kill some of Vista's launch hype.

[gloss]

Well put, and great story!

Here is what Intel's own Website says about Viiv:


So... is there anything there that you can't do already with a Mac? No.

Marketing, marketing, marketing. Apple would do well to tell Intel where to stick their Viiv. Neither Apple's brand nor user experience needs strenghening by Intel.

SL

PCs still have the Media Center application pretty much tied up. Until Apple provides a nice clean way to set up a Mac as a high-quality DVR, interactive programming guides and all, as opposed to strictly an audio/video playback machine, they're not going to be so competitive. I'm hoping for considerable upgrades (not to say overhauls) for Front Row in this respect.

[superleccy]

And 100% true. This is the same VP that earlier told my dad that when ordering new computers, not to get laptops for someone unless they already had a laptop, because if they didn't already have one, they obviously didn't need one.

Is this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy_Haired_Boss) the VP you are talking about?

:)

SL

[superleccy]

PCs still have the Media Center application pretty much tied up. Until Apple provides a nice clean way to set up a Mac as a high-quality DVR, interactive programming guides and all, as opposed to strictly an audio/video playback machine, they're not going to be so competitive. I'm hoping for considerable upgrades (not to say overhauls) for Front Row in this respect.

All Apple need to do is integrate Elgato's EyeTV into Front Row and iTV. Job Done.

SL

[Outsiderdude26]

All Apple need to do is integrate Elgato's EyeTV into Front Row and iTV. Job Done.

SL

I second that...

[IEatApples]

I expect a demo of Leopard at Macworld, but not a launch. iLife and iWork '07, iTV (or whatever it's eventually called) and possibly the Apple phone ('one more thing') will be enough to launch in January!I think so too.

[Willis]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)Apple has yet to release any Viiv-branded product, although a $1 million contest (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060926173248.shtml) announced at Intel's recent developer forum for the best Viiv design has regained some interest in the rumor.

very good point.

makes you wonder if its true as Apple never mentioned whats inside.

[Multimedia]

This is big if true. Would have to wait for MWSF January 9-12 to buy any Mac.

[Outsiderdude26]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has yet to release any Viiv-branded product, although a $1 million contest (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060926173248.shtml) announced at Intel's recent developer forum for the best Viiv design has regained some interest in the rumor.

Apple is not eligible because it does not run Windows Media Center as the primary OS.... Intel even use the Mac mini as an example at the Intel Developer Forum

[Rocketman]

I don't care about the poster's credibliy either way.

I said after the Jobs 06 keynote speech, about the Leopard 07 release, in a post here, that it was UPOD, and that he intends to release it early, and timed with Vista. The whole Leopard mantra is Vista killer.

Period.

Rocketman

[pianoman181]

I can say rather confidently that Leopard will not be ready in the immediate future. I am a developer running the latest seed (9A283... that's under NDA I believe but everyone knows...) and it is buggy as hell still. By buggy as hell, I guess I mean comparatively when thinking about 10.4.3+. Even if this was the final featureset (which I HIGHLY doubt... look for a new UI down the road), it needs quite a bit of polishing and bug fixes.

[Peace]

I don’t see Leopard ready in January. Possibly in March for the French show but more likely for WWDC if it is heal at it’s usual time. They want to make sure that it hits the floor running and with the leat amount of problems.

Also I think that this is the time table for hardware reasons. I will explain.

At this time both the Mac Mini and the MacBook will run Leopard in 32 bit mode not 64. This will limit what can be done on those platforms with Leopard.

I think that Apple will want all of it’s hardware to work with Leopard in 64 bit mode so they can show off what loepard can do.

In order to do this Apple will have to wait for the next version of Core 2 Duo. According to Intel that is due about April 2007 along with the corresponding chip sets. This will allow the iMac and the MacBook Pro to be shipped with the new chip sets and the Mac Mini and MacBook to get the current chip set.
Also the next version of the woodcrest chip set will be out.

All of the new chips will probably have SSE 4. This will be a close equialent to the velocity engine from the G4, better than the one on the G5, and I doubt the MS has developed Vista with that in mind. They will probably wait for their first service pack.

The Leopard Core will still be 32-bit upon release.

There is very little reason for Apple to release the next OS/X so soon.

Everyone is expecting OSX around Spring. Apple should give plenty of time for debugging and general readiness.

Tiger was a disaster at release - way too many bugs. Don't let this happen to Leopard.

That is being done internally and through a select group.

I can say rather confidently that Leopard will not be ready in the immediate future. I am a developer running the latest seed (9A283... that's under NDA I believe but everyone knows...) and it is buggy as hell still. By buggy as hell, I guess I mean comparatively when thinking about 10.4.3+. Even if this was the final featureset (which I HIGHLY doubt... look for a new UI down the road), it needs quite a bit of polishing and bug fixes.

A lot of the bugs you see have already been fixed..
Apple is waiting for more than bug fixes to release Leopard.


I believe it will be shown at MWSF2007 and released in February.

[bjdku]

Viiv is Intel's "Home PC" equivalent of Centrino. It is a marketing term made up to describe something that already exists; only in order to use the marketing term, you have to use all Intel equipment. (They also have a business-PC equivalent, "vPro".)

snip....



I think Viiv is more than that. Centrino and the like were labels slapped on, I believe Viiv is supposed to be a ecosystem...just as iPod/iTunes is an ecosystem...Intel just doesn't know how to make it happen.

You make valid points, and believe me I tend to agree...but I would suggest keeping an open mind that intel may have been shooting for something bigger with Viiv...mark my words...

[Eraserhead]

I would be so happy if "Leopard" was released at next year's Macworld. That would be so awesome of them and it would definitely kill some of Vista's launch hype.

Which is exactly why I think they'll release it in January.

[MarcelV]

The Leopard Core will still be 32-bit upon release.Are you sure about this? I thought it was fully 64-bit, not 64 bit extensions.

But I looked at http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/64bit.html, didn't see any explicit confirmation on that.

[Superdrive]

Leopard being released to "steal Vista's thunder" is some Mac lover's wet dream. Apple hasn't set loose any revision of OS X under a big event, such as MWSF, so why start now? Let the features speak for themselves, not the dates. Apple would be wise not to screw this up and take a few months to get it right. The fact they can go from a preview to release in less than 12 months is enough to "steal Vista's thunder".

[Chundles]

Are you sure about this? I thought it was fully 64-bit, not 64 bit extensions.

But I looked at http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/64bit.html, didn't see any explicit confirmation on that.

Leopard is fully 64bit but will run natively on 32bit systems as well.

[Norse Son]

Apple already has the "shell of its former promise" that is Vista beat with Tiger.

And if the bugs, GUI gripes, memory & CPU megoliths, and security-checkoff dialogue boxes (that makes the TSA look like Barney at a backyard birthday party) are any indication, Microsoft has its work cut out for it in trying to sell this Edsel to the masses. In all likelihood they will sell 10 million copies the first week, then see a screeching halt as guinea pigs revolt to the buggy mess, and have to rush out sloppy patches for the next 5 months.

Apple should wait with the launch of Leopard until about the first of March. When it's had time to simmer in the pot - not burned like Vista. And, who knows, maybe by then Apple will be able to offer a BTO of the MacPro with a BluRay burner... And Adobe will be ready to release CS3 around then...

However, don't get me wrong; they should reveal more of Leopard's details at MWSF, when it's far too late for Redmond to "start their photocopiers" (Vista is supposed to go to production in the next week or so, isn't it?). And Apple should have their plate full with the iTV - though it will utilize much of the Front Row changes in Leopard.

So, let Vista smolder upon release like an ol'stinky diaper in a firepit. The only fire will be when Apple releases Leopard on schedule. Vista is going to be about 3 years late, missing most of its promised muscle, yet bloated with fatty code. Leopard will be right on schedule, lean & mean...

[BillyShears]

I don't think they have to release in January to silence Microsoft's thunder. I'm not a marketing genius or anything, but I was just thinking:

Microsoft releases Vista in January.

March rolls around.

Jobs: So now you've all seen how Vista hasn't changed your life, look at all these bugs, etc. And now we can show you those super secret features I was telling you all about.

[rstorm]

I don't think they have to release in January to silence Microsoft's thunder. I'm not a marketing genius or anything, but I was just thinking:

Microsoft releases Vista in January.

March rolls around.

Jobs: So now you've all seen how Vista hasn't changed your life, look at all these bugs, etc. And now we can show you those super secret features I was telling you all about.

And advertise like they advertise the iPod. Take the message main stream so the masses see what we already know...Vista blows.

[monke]

Maybe the iTv we were shown was the lowest model, the bigger 50" model will have the iTv built it. :cool:

[jettredmont]

This guy is an unknown, hence page2. Also, to me it seems as though there is still a bit of work to go on Leopard (despite it coming along nicely), so I'm not putting a ton of faith in this one.

Rob Enderle unknown?

A few years back, he was a constant source of ridicule, calling for Apple to fold up shop and go software-only etc. IMHO, page 2 is a definite promotion for him. We'll see how it works out.

[termite]

Rob Enderle, like many analyists, is pretty much an uninformed person who will keep spouting opinions as long as anyone is willing to pay him to do so. He is justifiably hated (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:www.groklaw.net+%22rob+enderle%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) by many in the Linux and Free Software communities for his idiotic FUDing about the SCO lawsuit.

[Philberttheduck]

Should they release a Viiv TV, it better not come with no fuggin sticker.

[Squire]

I'm starting to wonder if Jobs was full of bleep when he said other top secret things we can't show you. I wonder if this is the same as those "hidden features" on the iPod that were talked up a few years ago and then immediately nothing came of it. We'll see. :(

...and the exclusive .Mac widgets. :(

-Squire

[gmanrique]

This time is Jobs saying there are Leopard hidden features. The iPod hidden features were rumors, not a statement coming from Jobs or Apple.

I'm starting to wonder if Jobs was full of bleep when he said other top secret things we can't show you. I wonder if this is the same as those "hidden features" on the iPod that were talked up a few years ago and then immediately nothing came of it. We'll see. :(

[AHDuke99]

honestly mac faithful, apple releasing leopard before vista solves what? who, besides we mac faithful, will know or care that leopard is launching? the media wont say anything about apple's new OS launch unless they do announce it at the expo. otherwise, not a word will be said. vista will get all teh coverage it can handle when it is ready to launch. 93% of the world's computers run windows, and a good portion of them will be looking to upgrade. i dont think rushing out leopard will steal that much away from vista.

[ITR 81]

This is my take on it.

Jobs will show all the normal stuff and few other stuff.
Then one more thing:
He'll show the world Leo preview...then give a release date.
Probably the end of Jan or Feb my guess.

[Platform]

Leopard, well I do want it NOW, but then again, bugs, performance etc.

Well just make sure those "great secret features" really are there and that 10.5.1 will be out quickly :D

[mahonmeister]

I would certainly enjoy seeing it released in January but any time in spring suits me fine.

[iMikeT]

I highly doubt that Leopard will ship at MacWorld. If it does, one thing is certain. Vista will be delayed for a few more months.;)

[knowledg333]

Hello friends.

First off, does anybody else find it hilarious that there are HP ads promoing the latest HP systems that run Windows?:D

But seriously, I need your input. I'm in the market to buy one of the new MacBook Pros.:cool: I have been postponing my purchase until the release of the Core 2 Duos, which recently came out. Now I'm wondering if it is the right time to buy, since the MacWorld expo is right around the corner. I personally think that a Leopard release in january is just the type of jazz and fireworks that Steve Jobs is synonymous with.:p But maybe there will be more happening.:rolleyes: Waiting to see if Leopard comes out in january is tempting enough, but what if there are anymore subtle upgrades to the MBPs? Perhaps there will be a new video card option, or the 3 GB of RAM will be cheaper, or a larger hard drive that spins faster than 5400 rpms. I'm conflicted friends. What do you all have to say about it?:confused:

[VanNess]

honestly mac faithful, apple releasing leopard before vista solves what?

Absolutely nothing.

Nevertheless, some of the tech press and "analysts" seemed somewhat disappointed that Apple isn't going to beat Vista to the punch and presumably whatever "edge" there would be in doing so. I never understood the logic of it. MS is expected to pour considerable media resources behind the Vista launch (get the suckers while its hot), and that level of noise will be difficult if not impossible for Apple to be heard over. But what it leaves is MS with all of its OS technology cards on the table and Apple with it's "secret" features still undiscovered. Thats not a disadvantage in my book, if fact that's a major advantage for Apple because if Apple manages to come out of nowhere and significantly one-up Vista after it's released, it leaves MS absolutely frozen - it will take MS years to try and catch up again given it's renowned development cycle for OS revisions. And Apple will, by then, have iterated even further along with OS X. In any event, most of the Vista pre-release buzz has been less than stellar up until now, which can make Apple look even better when it releases Leopard.

Cringley made a good point in one of his past articles about competing with MS: the best way to compete with them is to, basically, ignore them. Companies that have historically tried to go head to head in an overt, obvious way with MS always ended up losing big time. Apple's PC guy commercials are light and entertaining in disparaging MS, they don't attempt to steal MS's core business customers, so they wouldn't register on Redmond's threat radar. But they do attract a certain amount of public attention...

It seems, by and large, that folks (even those that should know better) want to see Apple behead MS with one feel swoop and it's not gonna happen. If it ever happens, it will be more like death by a thousand cuts. First the ads, with the subtle reminders of how miserable PC ownership can be at times, and then Leopard - powered by the latest Intel technology and significantly more desirable than Vista from the company that bought you the iPod. Of course it's not that simple, but it makes much more sense than trying to go head to head for OS bragging rights with MS right when Vista hits the streets. Let MS have the spotlight (no, not that spotlight™) to make it's excuses for it's consumer unfriendly Vista licensing policy and practices and it's byzantine collection of Vista "versions"

Enderle is, as usual, dead wrong about Leopard being released at or near Macworld, but I expect there will be major announcements about Leopard. Macworld will be the most significant Apple confab until WWDC 07 and by then Leopard will have already been released, most likely the same time frame as Tiger, in April 07.

[solvs]

Enderle is, as usual, dead wrong
Couldn't have put it better myself. Those of you who believe this are going to be disappointed. If they release it in Jan, I'm waiting until 10.5.2 or .3 at the earliest based on what I've seen. Leopard rocks, but definitely not ready for primetime. Even less so than 10.4.0. Vista will come out, people will buy it, people will complain that it sucks, businesses will put it off as long as they can, then Leopard will come out and suck much less, so lazy tech reporters will compare the 2 without actually knowing what they're talking about, and will therefor get a lot of things wrong. Most of the consumers out there won't care.

See, I could be an analyst. Except, you know, I actually know what I'm talking about. Unlike a certain tech writer we all know and love.

"I’m not a fan of the current iMac, the PC in a monitor has been done before and the new offering has relatively poor ergonomics (when compared to the old iMac), is less distinctive, and is far less stable. I live in California, earthquake country, and the old iMac was one of the most stable products in its class, the new one places the weight too high and relies on a base that is too narrow making it likely that it would fall. Falling glass can be a huge hazard in a home late at night when you are trying to get the kids and family to safety during an earthquake,"
(There is no breakable glass in the iMac G5. It's an LCD.)

[vendettabass]

talking of iTV, when are us in the UK actually going to get TV shows!!!

[Squire]

talking of iTV, when are us in the UK actually going to get TV shows!!!

That's what the Canucks are saying, too. Kids in the Hall and classic hockey games would be big sellers, in my opinion.

-Squire

[ready2switch]

I don’t see Leopard ready in January. Possibly in March for the French show but more likely for WWDC if it is heal at it’s usual time. They want to make sure that it hits the floor running and with the leat amount of problems.

Also I think that this is the time table for hardware reasons. I will explain.

At this time both the Mac Mini and the MacBook will run Leopard in 32 bit mode not 64. This will limit what can be done on those platforms with Leopard.

I think that Apple will want all of it’s hardware to work with Leopard in 64 bit mode so they can show off what loepard can do.

In order to do this Apple will have to wait for the next version of Core 2 Duo. According to Intel that is due about April 2007 along with the corresponding chip sets. This will allow the iMac and the MacBook Pro to be shipped with the new chip sets and the Mac Mini and MacBook to get the current chip set.
Also the next version of the woodcrest chip set will be out.

All of the new chips will probably have SSE 4. This will be a close equialent to the velocity engine from the G4, better than the one on the G5, and I doubt the MS has developed Vista with that in mind. They will probably wait for their first service pack.


This sounds perfect for my own means. A spring release of Leopard accompanying an update to hardware across the board. Yummy.

[Gosh]

Let's have our own competition - the best description of Viiv gets a packet of biscuits!:)

[shawnce]

The Leopard Core will still be 32-bit upon release. The Leopard kernel (likely for many releases, if not always) will operate in a 32-bit virtual space but fully support 64-bit physical addressing (only limited by hardware) and 32/64-bit user space virtual spaces. Apple is going to release only a single version of Mac OS X and it will run just fine on PowerPC, Intel, 32-bit capable, and 64-bit capable systems.

[MrCrowbar]

And advertise like they advertise the iPod. Take the message main stream so the masses see what we already know...Vista blows.

Dancing black silouhettes with the Vista-Desktops as Background and at the end, there's a silouhette of a Leopard eating them alive in a bloody mess? :D
Please, anyone, do this and put it on youTube.

[OdduWon]

i think we may see leopard at MWSF because iTv is the secret part of leopard. iTv is basicly a solution for a place where you don't have a mac close by running leopard's new front row. If not leopard, then we have what, iTv, the fabled true video ipod? santarosa MBP?, (santarosa would be too early). stats and figures can only take up so much time. so ithink it will be leopard, iTv and ipod cinema.

i hope leopard's speech recognition is better than tigers. i can never get the jokes to end :mad: . vista's vr looks cool, and of course solitaire was first on the revisions list and paint..... weres OUR paint? :confused: iCanvas perhaps. ;)
check out vista http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgJyqvcAXe0
the grid thing is crazy

[Squire]

i hope leopard's speech recognition is better than tigers. i can never get the jokes to end :mad: . vista's vr looks cool, and of course solitaire was first on the revisions list and paint..... weres out paint? iCanvas perhaps.
check out vista http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgJyqvcAXe0
the grid thing is crazy

That was pretty cool. I don't know about Leopard's speech recognition, but the speech production appears to be superior (at least based on what Steve showed at WWDC).

-Squire

[millar876]

... am i the only person in the world to see the pointlessness in so called media center macs/pcs having a tv card? i thaught the point of a media center was to allow you to hook up your computer to a TV and easily use it from accross the room. my point is this... if your computer is connected to a TV why have a TV-card in the computer, that makes about as much sence to me as buying a truck to put your car into so you can drive to work. i get that people want to record tv programs BUT all you need for that is a capture card with NO tuning abilities at all. SCART has enough pins and the capability to do video out along the same cable as video in and most tv's have video out ports that can be set to output whatever source you want. just my oppinion.

[duklaprague]

... am i the only person in the world to see the pointlessness in so called media center macs/pcs having a tv card? i thaught the point of a media center was to allow you to hook up your computer to a TV and easily use it from accross the room. my point is this... if your computer is connected to a TV why have a TV-card in the computer, that makes about as much sence to me as buying a truck to put your car into so you can drive to work. i get that people want to record tv programs BUT all you need for that is a capture card with NO tuning abilities at all. SCART has enough pins and the capability to do video out along the same cable as video in and most tv's have video out ports that can be set to output whatever source you want. just my oppinion.

Nope - I agree with you.

I do a lot of DVDs in iDVD, and being able to preview them on tv will be really useful.

I never got around to getting airtunes, because you still need to control the music from the computer - but if I can use iTV to hook my iTunes library up to my main hi-fi, and remotely be able to control the music, through Front Row on our tv, then that's cool too.

If we want to show slideshows, to do it on the tv, rather than sat around the mac, again through FR, then i'm sold.

Or watching the music trailers on the tv.

TV itself is totally taken care of by our cable PVR box - but viewing or listening to computer content on the tv, remotely using FR is pretty much what I'd be after - it does what it says on the tin - it takes your computer media from the computer, and places it firmly in the living room.

Iain

[OdduWon]

.. i thought the point of a media center was to allow you to hook up your computer to a TV and easily use it from accross the room. my point is this... if your computer is connected to a TV why have a TV-card in the computer, that makes about as much sence to me as buying a truck to put your car into so you can drive to work. i get that people want to record tv programs BUT all you need for that is a capture card with NO tuning abilities at all. SCART has enough pins and the capability to do video out along the same cable as video in and most tv's have video out ports that can be set to output whatever source you want. just my oppinion.

Agreed :) media center would imply the center of media dispersment. so if no tv output, not a center. Also it"s funny that in 1999 my school had some of the early g4 desktops, and they had cables to hook them up to the tv to show outlines. like a $12 or less kind of cable. Now i go into bestbuy, or even the Mac Superstore in slo and ask for the computer to tv cable and they look at me like i;m odd. :rolleyes:
But seriously though the cable box is a waste of space, a computer could do it and offer a better experience. reading some of the menus from the cable box is difficult and counter intuitive. If the new mac mini is to be the new media center it has compitetion. Wii, Psm , and 360.. lol 360. These products will provide a media experience thats better than M$mc. I don't think itv is a media center it is a hub. Apple shouold push the mini into the portable media center harder and market it as the portable PC game box. If there was a better GPU in there it would be the star of the LAN party. Add the ability to split a large HD screen in to areas for players, or a connection and stand for the iPod cinema and you have a portable gaming machine capable of serving up one tasty media experience, the apple way :)

[MacQuest]

This guy is an unknown, hence page2.

:eek: WHAT?!!! :confused:

Enderle used to be a Windows fanboy...what has changed? :rolleyes:

:mad: EXACTLY! :mad:

Enderle is a bonehead. He is one of the "Holy Trinity" of Apple bashing, winBlows [wannabe] pundits.

Dvorak and Thurrott round out that threesome of morons.

I remember Enderle's article from almost 3 years ago where he talked about how Apple couldn't make a computer as stylish as his red Acer Ferrari laptop and that it was sooo cool because it made a Ferrari engine noise when it booted up.

:rolleyes:

For a good laugh, and to expose Enderle for the KNOWN joke that he is in the Mac community, I'll link to an article referencing those statements from AtAT [As the Apple Turns] and includes classic quotes like these:

(regarding his red Ferrari Acer notebook referenced in the AtAT article linked below) :p

(It's) "the only notebook in the world to sport the patented Ferrari-Red colour." . . . (It has a) "classy strip of grey bordering the keyboard."..."When I walk into a room with this baby, even the Apple users join the throngs of admirers." . . . "One impressive piece of execution is that when you fire the machine up it plays a WAV file of a Ferrari race car revving its engine. That alone is worth the relatively low $1,899 price of admission."

In the linked post from February of '04, AtAT describes Rob Enderle as a "a very visible Apple-hostile analyst".

This guy is an unknown? I think not.

Enjoy! :D

http://204.68.168.161/scene/?id=4503

[inkhead]

Anybody who thinks Leopard is getting release in January has a head full of rocks.

I'll bet ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, that Leopard will not be released before, or anytime DURING the month of January.

If it were being released in January that would mean that the builds Apple is releasing to us right now would actually run things, and not look EXACTLY like tiger, with a mix of 10.1, and hard freeze entire suites of test machines.

LOL. Leopard is months, and months off from release. March is going to be a HARD date to make, and at this rate if they pull it off in March, with the feature set they are showing off people are going to be yawning. And this is coming from a select developer who attended probably 60 sessions on leopard.

Boring stuff so far.

[inkhead]

Hmm.. maybe you just never used .mac but there were exclusive widgets for .mac users released. It was just the fact that they sucked....

Leopard doesn't have any really good secrets in store, I can promise you that.

...and the exclusive .Mac widgets. :(

-Squire

[Squire]

Hmm.. maybe you just never used .mac but there were exclusive widgets for .mac users released. It was just the fact that they sucked....

What were they? Apple kept promoting the exclusive .mac widgets on their .mac site that were on the way but later, even the promotional banner disappeared. This is the first time I've ever heard of them becoming reality.

-Squire

<edit> I did a little search on "exclusive .mac widgets" and it appears I'm not the only one who missed their dramatic arrival.

From ThinkSecret (Sept/05):
Missing from today's .Mac update are the "exclusive .Mac widgets" that Apple briefly promised customers in early August. The widgets, sources inside Apple have told Think Secret, were being developed by an intern primarily on his own time with Apple never really throwing its weight behind the project.

From Macsimum News (Sept/06):

DAG Says:
Apple promised .Mac renewers exclusive .Mac widgets with the arrival of Tiger. Well, we are up to v10.4.7 and I have .Mac and have yet to see one exclusive or.Mac specific widget.

From Mac Recon (Sept/06):

Vaporware? No, I’m not talking about Duke Nukem Forever — I’m referring to those exclusive .Mac widgets Apple promised since the release of Tiger. So… where are they? I can get more vaporware in just about any other place.

[Thunderbird]

Anybody who thinks Leopard is getting release in January has a head full of rocks.

ok, my head is full of rocks :D

I'll bet ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, that Leopard will not be released before, or anytime DURING the month of January.

I'll bet you an apple it is (i.e. the actual fruit)

If it were being released in January that would mean that the builds Apple is releasing to us right now would actually run things, and not look EXACTLY like tiger, with a mix of 10.1, and hard freeze entire suites of test machines.

But we can all still dream, can't we? :) Besides, if Leopard isn't going to be released at MWSF, what then is going to be the BIG announcement that usually occurs at that time of year? 8 core Mac Pro?

LOL. Leopard is months, and months off from release. March is going to be a HARD date to make, and at this rate if they pull it off in March, with the feature set they are showing off people are going to be yawning. And this is coming from a select developer who attended probably 60 sessions on leopard.

Boring stuff so far.

I can't wait until next summer....!!!:(

[adrianblaine]

... am i the only person in the world to see the pointlessness in so called media center macs/pcs having a tv card? i thaught the point of a media center was to allow you to hook up your computer to a TV and easily use it from accross the room. my point is this... if your computer is connected to a TV why have a TV-card in the computer, that makes about as much sence to me as buying a truck to put your car into so you can drive to work. i get that people want to record tv programs BUT all you need for that is a capture card with NO tuning abilities at all. SCART has enough pins and the capability to do video out along the same cable as video in and most tv's have video out ports that can be set to output whatever source you want. just my oppinion.

I saw that a couple people agreed with your comment so I thought I'd take the other side of the argument.

Sure, a media center PC is made to hook up to a TV. And that right there is why it is not working. Who wants to put a freaking huge Dell or HP in their living room? Some people might do it, but every media center edition PC I've seen in people's houses are right where their last computer was. Most don't even use it for the pictures/music/TV. My mom recorded shows for a little while and she said it was a big pain. iTV is the missing link in my opinion. You can still keep your media on your computer and watch/listen to stuff from your TV without the computer being in the room. I know Macs and iTV lack the TV recording capability, but with iTunes that wouldn't go over very well would it?

It would be cool to be able to stream your actual desktop to the TV wirelessly someday, but if you want to hook a TV up to your computer to use as a second monitor, get a laptop with a long cord or buy a second TV to put near your computer. I think the whole "computer hooked up to a TV" craze would have taken place if it hadn't been for the laptop. I'd rather sit in the living room with my laptop surfing the internet WHILE watching the big screen TV.

[wmmk]

Hello friends.

First off, does anybody else find it hilarious that there are HP ads promoing the latest HP systems that run Windows?:D

I have no idea what you're talking about...
Let's have our own competition - the best description of Viiv gets a packet of biscuits!:)
nothing. whatsoever.


Dvorak and Thurrott round out that threesome of morons.

To be quite honest, Thurrot isn't all that biased. Sure, his site is called Paul Thurrot's Super Site for windows, but he has criticed m$ and commended apple when it's fair to do so, which I greatly admire.

[Am3822]

I've just read (in news.bbc.co.uk) that Microsoft will launch Vista on 30 November (for corporate clients, mind you). Does this have any effect on Apple's Leopard plans?

[peharri]

I've just read (in news.bbc.co.uk) that Microsoft will launch Vista on 30 November (for corporate clients, mind you). Does this have any effect on Apple's Leopard plans?

Probably not, no. Remember, Leopard's arrival sometime next year has been known for a while, longer than Vista being pushed back until late 2006, early 2007 (depending on customer type.)

Leopard needs to come out after Vista anyway, given it uses Vista's kernel (http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/?p=596).

(Heh. My moment of triumph.)

[SiliconAddict]

I would be so happy if "Leopard" was released at next year's Macworld. That would be so awesome of them and it would definitely kill some of Vista's launch hype.


Doubtful. MS is spending aprox 900 million on marketing. You thought you were sick of campaign ads. You ain't seen nothing yet. You won't be be able to hock a loogie without hitting a Vista ad. Or if you do you will run out of spit well before you run out of ads. :p

[SiliconAddict]

I've just read (in news.bbc.co.uk) that Microsoft will launch Vista on 30 November (for corporate clients, mind you). Does this have any effect on Apple's Leopard plans?

Vista is released Nov 30's for OEM's (Dell, Gateway, Tosh, etc) and corp customers. In both cases there are probably a few months of tweaking the desktop\laptop image and testing compatibility with preloaded apps. MS is sending this out this early so companies can start getting their crap together for rollout even though I don't know of a single corp client even remotely interested in Vista. There are still large corp clients of ours that are only now rolling out XP.

[lorductape]

keyword: May

[Anonymous Freak]

... am i the only person in the world to see the pointlessness in so called media center macs/pcs having a tv card? i thaught the point of a media center was to allow you to hook up your computer to a TV and easily use it from accross the room. my point is this... if your computer is connected to a TV why have a TV-card in the computer, that makes about as much sence to me as buying a truck to put your car into so you can drive to work. i get that people want to record tv programs BUT all you need for that is a capture card with NO tuning abilities at all. SCART has enough pins and the capability to do video out along the same cable as video in and most tv's have video out ports that can be set to output whatever source you want. just my oppinion.

You put a TV card in your Media PC so that it can record TV shows for you, like a TiVo.

OR... You have a TV card because your computer *IS* your TV. Such as in a dorm room, where having both a TV and a computer would seem a waste of space. Having just a TV as your computer's monitor would make productivity apps hard, but having just a computer monitor isn't as bad. I had ATI's original TV tuner card back in college in 1996, and it was great not to need a dedicated TV in a cramped dorm room.

And I knew one person who had a MacTV. (It was a little out of date at the time, but it wasn't the most out-of-date computer in the dorms by a long shot.) Starting with the PowerPC Performas, running until the iMac, Apple offered a TV tuner card as an option on almost all of their 'Consumer' computers.

[barnaby]

I don’t see Leopard ready in January. Possibly in March for the French show but more likely for WWDC if it is heal at it’s usual time. They want to make sure that it hits the floor running and with the leat amount of problems.

Also I think that this is the time table for hardware reasons. I will explain.

At this time both the Mac Mini and the MacBook will run Leopard in 32 bit mode not 64. This will limit what can be done on those platforms with Leopard.

I think that Apple will want all of it’s hardware to work with Leopard in 64 bit mode so they can show off what loepard can do.

In order to do this Apple will have to wait for the next version of Core 2 Duo. According to Intel that is due about April 2007 along with the corresponding chip sets. This will allow the iMac and the MacBook Pro to be shipped with the new chip sets and the Mac Mini and MacBook to get the current chip set.
Also the next version of the woodcrest chip set will be out.

All of the new chips will probably have SSE 4. This will be a close equialent to the velocity engine from the G4, better than the one on the G5, and I doubt the MS has developed Vista with that in mind. They will probably wait for their first service pack.

Core 2 Duo supports 64 bit mode; i.e. IA32e mode.
Core Duo does not.

Leopard will have to be compatible with PPC 32, 64 and Intel 32, 64.
They're not going to be turning people away yet. Eventually they'll turn their backs on everything but 64-bit Intel hardware but that won't be for awhile.

Both PPC and Intel in 64 bit mode can run 32bit code natively. Migrating from 32bit OS internals to 64bit OS internals is a difficult transition. Especially when you need to keep a 32bit version working as well.

To the average end user, and therefore to Jobs' keynote, there is very little to "show" about the difference between 32bit and 64bit. It's not going to be a visual difference. Rather an under-the-hood difference aimed at high-end users.

Finally, there is nothing stopping Macbook and MacMini to ship with Core2Duos in parallel with MBPs and Minis. We saw that in the CoreDuo and G4 timeframes where they all used similar chips. Moreso, in order to drop PPC and 32bit intel from QA earlier, they'll want to have 64bit Intel as soon as they can.

OS X will come out after Vista so they can steal their limelight. Apple wants to be taken as a serious contender.

[dernhelm]

I call bunk. While this may be a dream of the mac-faithful, it is totally unlikely to be true.

[peharri]

I think the #1 feature of Leopard should be a bitmap painting program. It's been too long since the Mac came with anything similar. Maybe they could get Dan Silva to port the Amiga's Deluxe Paint to Mac OS X.

That'd be awesome.

[elppa]

Apple still may be able to beat them to market.:cool:

As Norse Son said, Apple beat them to market when they released Tiger.

[cherfizzle]

cant wait for leopard.. i wonder what those "top secret" features are going to be.
those 40 and 50 inch displays i doubt that, thats a little too big even if they do come out theres no way i would ever get one seeing as tey would be so expensive..

[GregA]

Another argument for not seeing Leopard at MWSF is that Apple will want people to buy iLife AND a Leopard upgrade. Easier if Apple doesn't ask us to buy both on the same day.

i think we may see leopard at MWSF because iTv is the secret part of leopard.

You may be right that they are integrated. I don't know. But iTV is due by the end of Q1 - ie before March 31... so maybe both will be later than MWSF.

[xVeinx]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4845

It appears that microsoft is introducing support for iTV-like functions in it's XBOX 360 gaming system. I also noticed an MS advertisement for office for Mac. Looks like they realize that they have a problem :D ...

Edit: Add the link for the MS ad:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/go/promotions/default.aspx?WT.mc_id=c0710310116bhn02c0100

[crees!]

Edit: Add the link for the MS ad:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/go/promotions/default.aspx?WT.mc_id=c0710310116bhn02c0100

Offer ends January 16, 2007

So should we expect an update to Office around MWSF?

[ffakr]

I hope I'm not simply repeating something that's already settled but Enderle is an idiot. He rarely if ever has any idea re: what he's talking about. He's about as relevant as Dvorak except Dvorak occasionally get's lucky with a 10 year old prediction (the Intel move) even if it's totally coincidental.
Enderle is another one of those dumbasses who has been predicting Apple's demise for a Decade.

I can't go into detail about the Developer Builds because of NDA but they are no where near ready for release. Leopard looks like a very good, very solid update but it's not ready. They're making some big changes under the hood.. some of which weren't even available in time for WWDC. Some of the features publicly demo'ed at WWDC (and later web-cast to the public) were just recently included in Developer Builds.

Leopard is coming out in the Spring. Anyone who tells you differently isn't evaluating Leopard (or they're an idiot like Enderle). To Apple's credit.. they might be able to strike around the public release of Vista.. at least pretty close. Remember, Vista is shipping to corporate clients in December (so they can evaluate it for 6-9 months and not deploy it during that time) but it won't ship to regular customers till early 2007 on the current schedule.

sorry I can't give you more details but rules-is-rules.
ffakr.

[crees!]

I hope I'm not simply repeating something that's already settled but Enderle is an idiot. He rarely if ever has any idea re: what he's talking about. He's about as relevant as Dvorak except Dvorak occasionally get's lucky with a 10 year old prediction (the Intel move) even if it's totally coincidental.
Enderle is another one of those dumbasses who has been predicting Apple's demise for a Decade.

I can't go into detail about the Developer Builds because of NDA but they are no where near ready for release. Tiger looks like a very good, very solid update but it's not ready. They're making some big changes under the hood.. some of which weren't even available in time for WWDC. Some of the features publicly demo'ed at WWDC (and later web-cast to the public) were just recently included in Developer Builds.

Tiger is coming out in the Spring. Anyone who tells you differently isn't evaluating Tiger (or they're an idiot like Enderle). To Apple's credit.. they might be able to strike around the public release of Vista.. at least pretty close. Remember, Vista is shipping to corporate clients in December (so they can evaluate it for 6-9 months and not deploy it during that time) but it won't ship to regular customers till early 2007 on the current schedule.

sorry I can't give you more details but rules-is-rules.
ffakr.

Well since you're talking about Tiger how 'bout you spill the beans since we all already have our hands on a legit copy :D

[thegrifman]

I'm posting this here because it seems like there's already a good discussion going on Leopard and what it brings to the party. I'm planning on making the switch to an iMac but I'm not sure if I should wait or not. I saw some talk about the next generation core 2 duo's and such. Basically I'm going to use it for school, e-mail, word processing etc... I'll probably also use it for making hime movie dvd's for my parents, they have one of those video recorders that records straight to dvd but it makes horribly ugly menus. I don't have a problem paying for an upgrade to leopard and from what I see the consensus is that it's not coming until the spring and not in January, but is there going to be a hardware update to the iMacs in conjunction with Leopards release and should I wait for that or will that likely not be a huge jump over the current line of iMacs? For what it's worth I'm planning on going with a 20".

Also, does Apple offer any kind of upgrade voucher for new versions of Mac OS similar to what Microsoft is offering for Vista? I'm guessing they don't since the upgrade is already reasonably priced.

[szsiddiq]

I'm posting this here because it seems like there's already a good discussion going on Leopard and what it brings to the party. I'm planning on making the switch to an iMac but I'm not sure if I should wait or not. I saw some talk about the next generation core 2 duo's and such. Basically I'm going to use it for school, e-mail, word processing etc... I'll probably also use it for making hime movie dvd's for my parents, they have one of those video recorders that records straight to dvd but it makes horribly ugly menus. I don't have a problem paying for an upgrade to leopard and from what I see the consensus is that it's not coming until the spring and not in January, but is there going to be a hardware update to the iMacs in conjunction with Leopards release and should I wait for that or will that likely not be a huge jump over the current line of iMacs? For what it's worth I'm planning on going with a 20".

Also, does Apple offer any kind of upgrade voucher for new versions of Mac OS similar to what Microsoft is offering for Vista? I'm guessing they don't since the upgrade is already reasonably priced.
if u can wait a year, than do. leopard will be out, and hardware will obviously be improved....BUT if u need it now, just get it, and dont look back. ull make very good use of ur imac until leopard is released, and once it is, u can evaluate whether or not u need its features right away

[dr_lha]

Also, does Apple offer any kind of upgrade voucher for new versions of Mac OS similar to what Microsoft is offering for Vista? I'm guessing they don't since the upgrade is already reasonably priced.
They don't offer a cheaper "upgrade" version of Mac OS X I'm afraid, unless you bought your machine 1 month or less before Leopard was released.

In essense all boxed copies of Mac OS X are upgrade versions, after all its not possible to run Mac OS X on anything but a Mac (legitimately), in which case anyone buying a boxed copy of Leopard must already have a legal copy of a previous Mac OS X, and are "upgrading".

This opinion is sometimes the subject of flamage on this board, but only from people who are trying to justify themselves installing Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware.

[clintob]

I never understood the necessity people have in forcing OS X onto non-Apple machines? I guess if it's just your hobby, and it's a puzzle or something you do to pass the time, that's one thing. But there is absolutely no reason beyond that to do so. Apple makes great machines, and certainly doesn't skimp on quality hardware. Sure, if you search for deals and put it together yourself you might be able to save a few dollars, but it's not as if Apple marks up their machines insanely. If you price out all the parts individually, and take into account the fact that a professional installed and tested everything, and the aesthetic beauty of the cases, etc, you really can't find a much better deal - even a do-it-yourself one.

My two cents I guess, but I think it's tough to argue.

[GregA]

I'm planning on making the switch to an iMac but I'm not sure if I should wait or not. The iMac is probably at a nice sweet spot at the moment. Sure it'll be upgraded next year sometime, but I doubt it'll be January.

Apple will probably release iLife 07 in January so you'll save having to buy that if you wait till MWSF. If you wait till Leopard too, then you'll save on both ... but until the iMac got upgraded you'd have lost the sweet spot anyway on a slightly dated CPU.

Like always, if you wait 6 months you'll get a better machine. In this case you'll also save a couple of hundred dollars on iLife/OSX upgrades. But the machine is great now... As always - if you need the machine, buy what you need now. If you're going fine now, then wait.

[seanr]

I would say yes for Jan 07. The final release date for vista is Jan 30 and I could see apple holding back something really big for leopard and putting it out before Jan 30 and vista would be a great move for them to show that apple has the best Os.

Apple would not have to have the 64bit hardware out to release leopard if it can downgrade to 32bit. I'm shore they could reg up a test machine to show us what it could do at 64bit and give us a preview on new hardware coming soon for it.

I can see for shore having all the macs upgraded to at least core 2 duo by then and see ilife 07 and Iword 07.

I would like to see my self a video card option for the macmini and macbook and a price drop would be nice

[mjstew33]

So should we expect an update to Office around MWSF?

Not necessarily. Apple probably doesn't know Microsoft's release date.

[wmmk]

Not necessarily. Apple probably doesn't know Microsoft's release date.

MS can release office whenever the heck they want! Around MWSF would be good to try and stop the thunder of iWork '07, complete with a spreadsheets app and revamped word processing and page layout modes in pages. They don't need to tell Apple or anything. They're competing with Apple here!

[ogee]

Those who know cant say. Those who say dont know.

My 2c worth. When its released, Leopard will work on current systems. It has to otherwise existing users will be pi$$ed off.

iTV (or whatever its called) will be a standalone system, with software support within Leopard. Didnt Steve give a target price of $299 for the hardware???

There will be various updated to various software and hardware products, but nothing too exciting such as upgraded iWorks, .Mac, iLife perhaps with some "missing" applications included.

Perhaps an upgrade or two to some of the older Pro Apps.

A new Cinema range display with built in iSight, probably keeping the existing sizes.

I suspect a RED laptop, like the RED iPods assuming the RED campaign is still running, but this could be slipped in at anytime.

iPhone - I doubt this will come to market as the mobile market is full of phones. It is perhaps more likely that Apple will team up with Nokia, Sony Erricson or someone to integrate iTunes compatability.

iTunes - A change in the DRM system due to recent legal problems in France, Norway etc and anti competition problems.

Well thats a lot, but as I said above, those who say dont know!

but we can dream.

[peharri]

I never understood the necessity people have in forcing OS X onto non-Apple machines? I guess if it's just your hobby, and it's a puzzle or something you do to pass the time, that's one thing. But there is absolutely no reason beyond that to do so. Apple makes great machines, and certainly doesn't skimp on quality hardware. Sure, if you search for deals and put it together yourself you might be able to save a few dollars, but it's not as if Apple marks up their machines insanely. If you price out all the parts individually, and take into account the fact that a professional installed and tested everything, and the aesthetic beauty of the cases, etc, you really can't find a much better deal - even a do-it-yourself one.

My two cents I guess, but I think it's tough to argue.

I disagree. I personally prefer Thinkpads to Powerbooks. I cannot stand the touchpad thing, it's a monstrocity and barely usable. IBM/Lenovo's version of the trackpoint is superb though.

But I like Mac OS X.

I'd buy it if they made it available in a form legally able to run on non-Macs, and I'd pay a premium too.

[thegrifman]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. I think I may wait and see what hardware upgrades are coming down since my current windows laptop works and is plenty powerful. My motivations are simply to escape the abyss that is windows and it's various associated problems so I think I can hold out a bit longer. Thanks again for all the replies.

[Chris Bangle]

Any word on anything about ilife 07.

[?maniac]

Any word on anything about ilife 07.

it's typically released in Feb. i am very excited for iWeb 2.0.