Saddam sentenced to Hanging

[MacFan25863]

Just broke on CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/05/dujail.saddam/index.html

[Chundles]

Yup, he's going to be hanged.

Good.

[mad jew]

Old school. Why no injection?

[kretzy]

Old school. Why no injection?

Yeah, that's a good question. I still can't decide if I'm for or against capital punishment, but hanging seems very barbaric nowadays.

On the other hand, they still stone women to death for trivial things, in places like Saudi Arabia, so I suppose it's up to the culture and people of the country to deem what their punishment system is.

[Scarlet Fever]

Old school. Why no injection?

maybe because hanging is less dignified. I spose they could have also done the old hang-draw-and-quater, but the UN might have been a bit sus.

[Dagless]

Bloody hell! It's like being back in Robin Hood days.
Wonder if he'll get a mask?

I know it's not my place as I have no connection with Iraq or have any first hand encounters with him, but I'd much rather see him simply locked up for the rest of his life. Guantanamo?

[mad jew]

Yeah, swap him with David Hicks.

[SpaceMagic]

I'm not always in favour of capital punishment, but... it's sad what he did to the lives of thousands/millions and he should have to pay for it in equal measure - rather than him sitting in a jail wasting iraqi state money waiting on the day when some extremist releases him and reinstates him to power. No thanks.

[miniConvert]

Urgh, I'd imagine we'll see endless footage of this hanging?

I feel like I'm in a timewarp. I don't think we should give him the scapegoat of death.

[kretzy]

Yeah, swap him with David Hicks.

Wouldn't that mean Hicks gets hanged?

[mad jew]

Urgh, I'd imagine we'll see endless footage of this hanging?

I feel like I'm in a timewarp. I don't think we should give him the scapegoat of death.


I know exactly what you mean. :(


Wouldn't that mean Hicks gets hanged?


Eep! Not quite what I meant. :o

[Voidness]

Yeah, that's a good question. I still can't decide if I'm for or against capital punishment, but hanging seems very barbaric nowadays.
Tell me, how does one way of execution seem more "barbaric" than some other way?

Off topic: They don't stone women to death for doing "trivial things" in countries like Saudi Arabia. The only case where a person is stoned to death (man or woman) is when he/she is found guilty of cheating on his/her spouse.

[kretzy]

Eep! Not quite what I meant. :o

Didn't think so. ;)

[Lau]

So, can we start Bush and Blair's trials now?

[FleurDuMal]

So what's gonna happen to the people who gave him the money and weapons to do all those horrible things? When do their trials begin?

It's ****ing disgusting.

[mad jew]

Tell me, how does one way of execution seem more "barbaric" than some other way?


Is that a real question? I don't believe in execution but I still think it's a scalar concept. There are varying degrees of barbarity when it comes to killing someone. Hanging someone is graphic and demeaning, not to mention unnecessary.


Off topic: They don't stone women to death for doing "trivial things" in countries like Saudi Arabia. The only case where a person is stoned to death (man or woman) is when he/she is found guilty of cheating on his/her spouse.


I fail to see how the punishment fits the crime. :o

[kretzy]

Tell me, how does one way of execution seem more "barbaric" than some other way?

Well hanging involves putting a noose around someone's neck above some gallows, when the gallows are released the person falls, the noose constricts around their neck, usually snapping it enough to kill the person. If not, the noose blocks their airways and they suffocate to death.

Lethal injection is simply that, an injection that kills someone with relatively little pain or other unpleasantness.

That, in my book at least, is the distinction.


I fail to see how the punishment fits the crime. :o

Agreed. Perhaps "trivial" wasn't the best phrase to have used, but I was referring more to the method of killing, than the reasoning behind it.

[rdowns]

http://www.londonstimes.us/toons/cartoons/johndebord_hangman.jpg

[psychofreak]

What a surprise...although he was clearly guilty, this was hardly a fair trial. The judicial system would have been destroyed had Saddam won, there was no way on earth that Saddam could have been found guilty, even if the defense had somehow proved that he committed no crime.

[Scarlet Fever]

So, can we start Bush and Blair's trials now?

howard (PM of Australia) needs to be put on trial as well. the three of them are disgraceful. its a shame they are the leaders of some of the most powerful countries in the world.

[Chundles]

howard (PM of Australia) needs to be put on trial as well. the three of them are disgraceful. its a shame they are the leaders of some of the most powerful countries in the world.

Well, Bush and Blair are. We're certainly not one of the most powerful countries in the world.

[Voidness]

Well hanging involves putting a noose around someone's neck above some gallows, when the gallows are released the person falls, the noose constricts around their neck, usually snapping it enough to kill the person. If not, the noose blocks their airways and they suffocate to death.

Lethal injection is simply that, an injection that kills someone with relatively little pain or other unpleasantness.
That's the thing. How do we know that lethal injection kills someone with little pain? Did anyone try it and told us how they felt before dying? If a criminal fastened his victim on a table and injected a lethal substance into the victim's blood vessels, is that called a "humane" way of killing?

I fail to see how the punishment fits the crime. :o
It isn't always necessary for the punishment to fit the crime. Actually, almost always the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[mad jew]

That's the thing. How do we know that lethal injection kills someone with little pain? Did anyone try it and told us how they felt before dying? If a criminal fastened his victim on a table and injected a lethal substance into the victim's blood vessels, is that called a "humane" way of killing?


Lethal injection is quicker, more consistently. Assuming we can take the fact a dead person feels no pain, a lethal injection will knock 'em out quickly. Hanging somebody can be just as quick a lot of the time, but if it goes wrong then it can be a slow and uncomfortable process. We know this because some people have survived hangings and suffocation (which is what would kill him if his neck doesn't break).


It isn't always necessary for the punishment to fit the crime. Actually, almost always the punishment doesn't fit the crime.


How can you say it's not necessary? I agree they don't always match up exactly, but it's hardly fair and just to have a punishment that doesn't fit the crime. If you were found guilty of cheating on someone, would you mind being stoned to death?

[Eraserhead]

Tell me, how does one way of execution seem more "barbaric" than some other way?

Because death is slower, though there is evidence that lethal injection and electrocution aren't very humane as they are unreliable, I've heard the good old guillotine is the best.

[kretzy]

That's the thing. How do we know that lethal injection kills someone with little pain? Did anyone try it and told us how they felt before dying? If a criminal fastened his victim on a table and injected a lethal substance into the victim's blood vessels, is that called a "humane" way of killing?
I never said it was humane. No form of killing is ever really humane. Lethal injection involves a series of injections, the first being a anaesthetic, which puts them into a deep sleep, just like when someone goes into surgery. People that have surgery to not experience pain, so it's probably that the same goes for the person being killed.

Your example of the criminal injecting someone is completely to it being carried out as a legal form of punishment and therefore devoid of any real argument.

[Mac-Addict]

...
How can you say it's not necessary? I agree they don't always match up exactly, but it's hardly fair and just to have a punishment that doesn't fit the crime. If you were found guilty of cheating on someone, would you mind being stoned to death?
If thats what it was like in the uk the talk show hosts would be out of a job..

[NJuul]

How can you say it's not necessary? I agree they don't always match up exactly, but it's hardly fair and just to have a punishment that doesn't fit the crime. If you were found guilty of cheating on someone, would you mind being stoned to death?

Obviously, whether or not you believe a certain punishment fits a certain crime is entirely dependent upon your cultural background and thus your perception of what constitutes a "terrible crime" and a "befitting punishment".
Eg. "Blasphemy!" -> "death" (Spain 1500 AD) or "Blasphemy!" -> "Huh..?" (Spain 2000 AD)

[mad jew]

Very good point, but that doesn't make it unnecessary for the punishment to fit the crime, even if it's only applicable at that time and in that particular culture.

[NJuul]

Very good point, but that doesn't make it unnecessary for the punishment to fit the crime, even if it's only applicable at that time and in that particular culture.

Correct, my point being that for Saudis, stoning women for infidelity might very well be a fitting punishment, however barbaric it appears to us.

[MrSmith]

I've heard the good old guillotine is the best.
Or maybe not (http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html). *shudder*

[NJuul]

Or maybe not (http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html). *shudder*

Unnnghhh..... Might have to skip lunch...

[Agathon]

Pity that the current illegal war has caused more death and destruction than Saddam ever did.

And to boot, this was a joke trial.

Whatever problems the Nuremberg trials had, they were models of legal and ethical probity compared to this kangaroo court.

[clevin]

illegal court, this kind of crim should be tried in international court.
also, killing of <200 people in the war time is a crime against humanity?
just count how many ppl died in the past 3 years in iraq due to "war"

[Dont Hurt Me]

This whole Iraq thing has been a farce from our administration of lies, they have used 911 as a excuse to not only invade Iraq but to strip our rights away while giving the excutive branch abusive power.

Saddam a bad guy indeed but Saddam didnt plan 911. I guy named Bin Laden did and he is still free. Tallest man in Afghanistan and they couldnt find him.

You have a society in Iraq thats lawless and based on Islam thats spews forth hatred of all types and justifys killing in many ways, intolerance rules the day to the point where even different sects of the same theology want to kill each other for things from a thousand years ago. Saddam is a product of its society just as George Bush is a product of our own messed up society.

Saddam,Bin,Laden,George Bush all of them responsible for the deaths of thousands. All crave power,control,wealth and you know how corrupt that can make a human. Iraqi's were doing better under Saddam then they are under George. We should have stayed out of Iraq and caught the 911 guy.

[Maxiseller]

I don't necessarily agree that anybody has the right to take a life - but in this situation I'm inclined to agree that he deserves it.

Besides this, keeping him locked up will only cost the tax payer millions of dollars...

Bye Saddam!

[psychofreak]

Saddam,Bin,Laden,George Bush all of them responsible for the deaths of thousands.

Who are these two?

[toontra]

Besides this, keeping him locked up will only cost the tax payer millions of dollars...


You mean the Iraqi taxpayer?

[NJuul]

By the way, I wonder if the timing of the sentence is in any way connected with events scheduled to take place on tuesday...

[Thomas Veil]

Naaahhhhhh..... :rolleyes:

Or maybe not (http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html). *shudder*Yecccchhh! :eek:

[zimv20]

By the way, I wonder if the timing of the sentence is in any way connected with events scheduled to take place on tuesday...
the iraq affair is going so badly, the bush administration couldn't even time its october surprise in october.

[Queso]

I can't help feeling that this is actually going to make things worse, and the violence is now going to spread outside of Iraq.

It's not that Saddam wasn't guilty. Obviously he was. But there's a perception in the Arab world that the Americans would have found him guilty whatever the evidence, and that the whole court was nothing more than a White House PR exercise. That doesn't bode well at all.

**shudders**

[Dont Hurt Me]

Did Saddam get a fair trial? How many different judges and lawyers did they go through? Saddam is a murderer without a doubt though I dont see how killing him is going to help Iraq. Killing Saddam will lead to a greater divide between the Shiites and the Sunni's.
I bet George is feeling like a Hero, he got Saddam at the costs of 3,000 American lives,100,000- 300,000 Iraqi lives,400 Billion dollars and a country on the brink of civil war. Was it worth it when he still hasnt caught the guy who did 911? I would say No.

[FleurDuMal]

Was it worth it when he still hasnt caught the guy who did 911?

You would be shocked at the number of people in America who still believe that Suddam was somehow responsible for 9/11 (or at least did the last time the question was polled)... :(

[kretzy]

I bet George is feeling like a Hero, he got Saddam at the costs of 3,000 American lives,100,000- 300,000 Iraqi lives,400 Billion dollars and a country on the brink of civil war. Was it worth it when he still hasnt caught the guy who did 911? I would say No.

But you're forgetting the most important thing. War is good for business.

[Dont Hurt Me]

I didnt forget, Its been a windfall of $$$ for Cheneys Haliburton, for Bush's Oil buddies, and for the military industrial complex that makes all those military toys. All paid for by the U.S. citizen,taxpayer and the debt gets passed to our grandchildren. Also Israel is very happy Saddam is going to hang, only now they will have to worry of a Shiite ran theocracy in both Iran & Iraq.

Daddy War Hero Bush did the right thing, the arrogant son didnt. I supported the Dad, I dont support anything the son has done.

[yg17]

Saddam is no more of a criminal than Bush, I say hang em both

[applemacdude]

Old school. Why no injection?

Because either way, it kills the person. It does not matter if they suffer pain or not, the outcome is still death.

[skunk]

Daddy War Hero Bush did the right thing, the arrogant son didnt. I supported the Dad, I dont support anything the son has done.Actually, Daddy Bush encouraged the Shiites to rise up with US support, and then walked away, costing them at least 150,000 dead. As for Granddaddy Bush, the less said about him the better. Nobody in that family gets any prizes.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Saddam is no more of a criminal than Bush, I say hang em both

Better be careful this president with his republican congress has suspended habeas corpus, He could declare you a enemy combatant, throw you jail, torture you with waterboarding for years and without a trial. Sounds like Nazi Germany doesnt it? Vote Republican so we can be just like Nazi's.

[yg17]

Sounds like Nazi Germany doesnt it?

I guess the fact I'm Jewish doesn't help then either :D


Maybe since we're in the 21st century, our concentration camps will at least have free WiFi, so when I'm not working or running from the gas chamber, I can post on MR

[pseudobrit]

Mission Accomplished redux?

[Zwhaler]

Agh, just throw him in jail for the rest of his life! I think it's funny that the US was great friends with Saddam not too long ago. But once he stopped following our orderers, we made him the enemy. Any see the picture of Bush giving him a nuggie?

[IJ Reilly]

I can't help feeling that this is actually going to make things worse, and the violence is now going to spread outside of Iraq.

Well yes, exactly. The trial of Saddam was supposed to be an exercise in Iraqi national reconciliation, but I don't see how anyone could still seriously harbor that hope today. This only serves to underline yet again how much the situation in Iraq has degenerated since that lofty goal was in assigned to Saddam's trial. Of course the President will try to spin it that way when he addresses the nation today, which will only succeed in making him look even more ridiculous, as if such a thing was possible.

[KingYaba]

Ah yes, some good news from Iraq. :) It's about time. Let him hang. :cool:

[dornoforpyros]

I wonder who will get the advertising and/or pay per view rights?

"Saddamn's hanging has been brought to you by Wal-Mart, always great prices. And closed captioning was provided by ING Direct, Save your money"

:rolleyes:

[KingYaba]

You know someone is bound to video tape it.

And I will be searching for the tape myself.

[IJ Reilly]

You know someone is bound to video tape it.

And I will be searching for the tape myself.

As well as the riots, murders and car bombings afterwards?

It'll be great TV, that's for sure.

[clevin]

international reaction:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110500326.html
no one believe the court is just other than US, UK. this is sad.

[FleurDuMal]

You know someone is bound to video tape it.

And I will be searching for the tape myself.

If watching people die is how you get your kicks, then there is less of a difference between you and Saddam as you may think.

[KingYaba]

If watching people die is how you get your kicks, then there is less of a difference between you and Saddam as you may think.

I don't suppose you watch movies or TV shows these days. :rolleyes:

[FleurDuMal]

I don't suppose you watch movies or TV shows these days. :rolleyes:

I don't suppose you know the difference between movies and real life :rolleyes:

[eva01]

I don't suppose you know the difference between movies and real life :rolleyes:

humanity has always been thrilled by death. There was a reason there is a colosseum in Rome. Death will always be something fascinating because no one that has achieved death can talk about it.

There is a difference however with those that enjoy making people experience death and those that just enjoy watching it.

It just happens to be the way humanity is. The unknown is always interesting and always will be.

[beatsme]

Old school. Why no injection?

I dunno about the Middle East, but in Europe hanging was the preferred method of execution for common criminals, with the firing squad being reserved for members of the military. The condemned officers at Nuremberg were especially bitter about being dispatched by hanging, as they considered it beneath their dignity.

anyway, maybe that's why no injection. More humiliating this way. It's pretty clear that Saddam's been tried by a "victors court," so you have to figure...

personally, I think if they really wanted to punish him they'd hand him over to the Shiites, or the Kurds.

[im_to_hyper]

Did Bush just say "Iraqtian Democracy" in his speech just now? I misinterpreted what he said.... sounded like he was referring to the democracy of using Viagra.

[takao]

there is no place for death penalty in the 21th century

[Dont Hurt Me]

In the past 20 centurys man has changed little if at all, man still loves to kill others, still wants to be king, still wants to control others action and thoughts. Whats changed in 2,000 years since a Guy named Jesus set us an example? Not one thing as evidence by all the key players in this saga. From Bin Laden to Saddam to George Bush, all scumbags. All have killed thousands.:rolleyes:

[frankblundt]

"Thou shalt not kill" goes back more than 2000 years. Suprising how many Christians (and Jews) seem happy to treat this constitution as subject to ammendments - "Thou shalt not kill, subject to sections 9(3) to (6), 9A, and 10"

[eva01]

In the past 20 centurys man has changed little if at all, man still loves to kill others, still wants to be king, still wants to control others action and thoughts. Whats changed in 2,000 years since a Guy named Jesus set us an example? Not one thing as evidence by all the key players in this saga. From Bin Laden to Saddam to George Bush, all scumbags. All have killed thousands.:rolleyes:

That is what humanity is. Sadly it is what makes us our own species is our enjoyment in certain things that other "inferior" creatures do not partake in.

Nothing has changed in any significant ways. Just they way we pursue these endeavors has changed. Instead of a colosseum we now have death row (people get to watch death row inmates die).

Nothing really has changed, and I don't think it ever will, I guess it is what differentiates our species from others.

[IJ Reilly]

Did Bush just say "Iraqtian Democracy" in his speech just now? I misinterpreted what he said.... sounded like he was referring to the democracy of using Viagra.

I don't know, but it sounded to me like he was being disrespectful of the troops.

[swingerofbirch]

Saddam Hussein is actually calling for the Iraqi people not to protest this decision and not to kill coalition troops. I don't know very much about the situation. But when I see Saddam Hussein in the face of his own mortality making a statement like that and compare it to how I have seen people like Bush and Cheney act with a strong defiant swagger unwilling to negotiate it makes me wonder.

I heard that about 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of our invasion. And we know that 3,000 Americans have died. I have heard that Saddam Hussein committed atrocities--again I have never heard exactly what these were--but it seems like we are unable to get control of the country after having killed 600,000 people! How many did he kill? As far as I know he was the leader of the country and there was a semblance of order. I heard Bush's claims that Hussein sought uranium from Africa which is why I though we went to war, which apparently was not true. Forgive my ignorance, I was in a grade where because of a curriculum shift I never had world history (I'm serious), what exactly did Saddam Hussein do? Who did he kill and why?

[IJ Reilly]

Let's put it this way: Saddam was our pal when he was fighting a war against Iran during the '80s. The atrocities he committed against his own people (and against Iranian forces) were hardly noticed and in fact were tacitly encouraged. He stopped being our pal and became our enemy when he occupied Kuwait in 1990 and threatened to exert too much control over world oil supplies. That made him Bad Guy No. 1 in the world, worth fighting two wars over.

Is this analysis too simplistic? In a way, yes -- the world is a complicated place. But if you look at the overall geopolitical picture, this is effectively the main story-line.

[skunk]

Saddam Hussein is actually calling for the Iraqi people not to protest this decision and not to kill coalition troops. I don't know very much about the situation. But when I see Saddam Hussein in the face of his own mortality making a statement like that and compare it to how I have seen people like Bush and Cheney act with a strong defiant swagger unwilling to negotiate it makes me wonder.

I heard that about 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of our invasion. And we know that 3,000 Americans have died. I have heard that Saddam Hussein committed atrocities--again I have never heard exactly what these were--but it seems like we are unable to get control of the country after having killed 600,000 people! How many did he kill? As far as I know he was the leader of the country and there was a semblance of order. I heard Bush's claims that Hussein sought uranium from Africa which is why I though we went to war, which apparently was not true. Forgive my ignorance, I was in a grade where because of a curriculum shift I never had world history (I'm serious), what exactly did Saddam Hussein do? Who did he kill and why?He was installed with help from the CIA, fought a war with Iran (armed in part as a proxy by the US, cf. Rumsfeld, Donald), was provoked by the Kuwaitis who were using diagonal drilling equipment (supplied by the US) to pump Iraqi oil from under the border, complained to the Americans, was given a very ambiguous answer by the US Ambassador about the likely US reaction, invaded Kuwait, had at least 100,000 troops killed in the subsequent US-led war (Gulf War I), held on under UN sanctions and 12 years of US/UK bombing, then was overthrown after an illegal invasion by US and UK forces (Gulf War II). Probably responsible for half a million dead at least. Latest estimates put the death toll since the invasion at between 390,000 and 950,000. For more info, I suggest a visit to Wikipedia.

[beatsme]

what exactly did Saddam Hussein do? Who did he kill and why?

this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein) should help

[eva01]

but it seems like we are unable to get control of the country after having killed 600,000 people!

I will say this as a minor defense. The US military hasn't killed that many people. That is how many Iraqis have died, also including iraqis killing iraqis at this point. I am pretty sure at least that is what the 600,000 represents

[IJ Reilly]

I will say this as a minor defense. The US military hasn't killed that many people. That is how many Iraqis have died, also including iraqis killing iraqis at this point. I am pretty sure at least that is what the 600,000 represents

It's an estimate of the number of deaths resulting from all forms of violence, based on surveys and projections instead of official reports. Whether they were killed by the U.S. military or not, they are dead as the direct result of U.S. actions in Iraq.

[skunk]

It's an estimate of the number of deaths resulting from all forms of violence, based on surveys and projections instead of official reports. Whether they were killed by the U.S. military or not, they are dead as the direct result of U.S. actions in Iraq.And of course it doesn't include the UN-estimated 1.5 million killed by UN sanctions.

[eva01]

It's an estimate of the number of deaths resulting from all forms of violence, based on surveys and projections instead of official reports. Whether they were killed by the U.S. military or not, they are dead as the direct result of U.S. actions in Iraq.

Yes they are direct as a direct result of the US, but not dead due to US soldiers. Just US policy.

[MACDRIVE]

Saddam mentioned awhile back that if he was found guilty by the jury and sentenced to death, that he would rather be executed by a firing squad like a "military man."

I believe a person sentenced to death should be given a choice as to how they will die.

[zimv20]

I believe a person sentenced to death should be given a choice as to how they will die.
"old age".

[IJ Reilly]

Yes they are direct as a direct result of the US, but not dead due to US soldiers. Just US policy.

A distinction without a difference, one might argue.

[skunk]

Yes they are direct as a direct result of the US, but not dead due to US soldiers. Just US policy.And UK compliance with US policy.

[eva01]

A distinction without a difference, one might argue.

To an extent yes. All I was showing to the poster was that it wasn't a US soldier shooting all of those iraqis but it was more.

I know it seems trivial and probably is but, meh oh well. Still is horrible to even comprehend that people are still dying for this.

[IJ Reilly]

To an extent yes. All I was showing to the poster was that it wasn't a US soldier shooting all of those iraqis but it was more.

I know it seems trivial and probably is but, meh oh well. Still is horrible to even comprehend that people are still dying for this.

The point is, I do not blame the U.S. military for all of these deaths. They do what they are told. I blame the people who made the policies. Also, the claims about Saddam's brutality towards his own people seem to ring a bit hollow in light of all the death and destruction which the Iraqi people have been forced to endure in order to experience their "liberation." In his wildest imagination Saddam could not have brought about such carnage on his own countrymen. And for this, he will hang? Sometimes the irony is just too much.

[benthewraith]

Lethal injection is simply that, an injection that kills someone with relatively little pain or other unpleasantness.

That, in my book at least, is the distinction.

Aye, but IIRC, there are people that watch his execution. Doctors, victims, etc. So the humiliation factor would still be there. It would also be a slower death compared to hanging.

[clevin]

Aye, but IIRC, there are people that watch his execution. Doctors, victims, etc. So the humiliation factor would still be there. It would also be a slower death compared to hanging.

its simple, just ask urself, which one do you prefer if you were to, just for example, be sentenced to death, and I believe everybody would have a good idea. No offense, I can say I would obviously prefer injection.

[MacBoobsPro]

Bloody hell! It's like being back in Robin Hood days.
Wonder if he'll get a mask?

I know it's not my place as I have no connection with Iraq or have any first hand encounters with him, but I'd much rather see him simply locked up for the rest of his life. Guantanamo?

During his reign he 'allegedly' :rolleyes: had peoples heads chopped off for various crimes.

I would gladly watch him go that way (with a blunt sword of course) :mad:

Yes I would watch it, I want to see him suffer.

Bye Sadam. Dont let the trapdoor hit you in the ass!

[skunk]

Yes I would watch it, I want to see him suffer.In that case, you're not that different from him.

[zimv20]

In that case, you're not that different from him.
i'm not certain when it happened, but (many) americans seem to have lost their ability to sense hypocrisy.

[clevin]

i'm not certain when it happened, but (many) americans seem to have lost their ability to sense hypocrisy.
Since GOP kept telling them american are a superior living thing than other human being. So, its like, Saddam is no human anymore, he is evil, and Bush is God's grandson.

[swingerofbirch]

I believe all pre-meditated murder is wrong. Saddam's hands are apparently bloody, but so are ours, so are Bush's. I think the only answer is to stop killing. I don't think you can win in this way of some killing being right and other killing being the cause for more killing.

[Dont Hurt Me]

What would Jesus say? what would Jesus do? Its pretty funny we hear George Iam a "christian" Bush backing killing,backing Torture,backing greed and everything else he stands for. Saddam would get life in Prison in a real christian based society, but a Islamic society Oks killing & murder for all kinds of reasons and Saddam will fall under that it looks like to me.

When God handed over those commandments one was clearly written, Though shalt not Kill. Mankind has ignored that one, So called christians have also.

[hulugu]

Because death is slower, though there is evidence that lethal injection and electrocution aren't very humane as they are unreliable, I've heard the good old guillotine is the best.

Even the guillotine has problems, it takes a bit of time for the brain to die.
There's your disturbing bit of information for the day.

It seems that all mean of capital punishment are horrible in their own way. Firing Squad, unless someone hits the heart or head it's going to hurt a lot.
Hanging, if the rope is the wrong length the person strangles or they fall fast enough their head is messily removed.
Gas, nothing like inhaling a lung-searing posion.
Electrocution, unless the voltage is delivered right, the person feels it.
Lethal injection. If the first chemical fails to knock the person unconcious, the second chemical may be incredibly painful.
Beheading...

There's no humane way to kill someone.

[skunk]

Since GOP kept telling them american are a superior living thing than other human being. So, its like, Saddam is no human anymore, he is evil, and Bush is God's grandson.Are you telling me God supported the Nazi war effort?

[solvs]

From what I can tell, most of the people who seem to want him dead have no idea what he's actually done to deserve it. He is an evil man, that is not the question, but I don't see how killing him is going to do any good. Especially considering how life in prison would have accomplished just as much good with far less fallout. Violence would have gotten worse in Iraq anyway, just waiting for the neocons to start blaming the increase in Dems being elected, but this makes a good excuse too. Not to mention all the questions that will be asked. Maybe some people will be happy he won't be around to answer some of those questions certain people don't want him to answer, but I for one would like to keep him alive in some jail somewhere. Spending the rest of his life thinking about what he's done, and reminding everyone what he didn't.

Death is too easy IMO.

[MrSmith]

Spending the rest of his life thinking about what he's done, and reminding everyone what he didn't.

Death is too easy IMO.
I don't know. Ten years solitary on death row would present a lot of ruminating time.

[hulugu]

From what I can tell, most of the people who seem to want him dead have no idea what he's actually done to deserve it. He is an evil man, that is not the question, but I don't see how killing him is going to do any good. Especially considering how life in prison would have accomplished just as much good with far less fallout. Violence would have gotten worse in Iraq anyway, just waiting for the neocons to start blaming the increase in Dems being elected, but this makes a good excuse too. Not to mention all the questions that will be asked. Maybe some people will be happy he won't be around to answer some of those questions certain people don't want him to answer, but I for one would like to keep him alive in some jail somewhere. Spending the rest of his life thinking about what he's done, and reminding everyone what he didn't.

Death is too easy IMO.

I disagree, Saddam is a symbol in death, but an empty one.

Interesting articles, again from Slate, one (http://www.slate.com/id/2152999/nav/tap1/) from Christopher Hitchens, the other (http://www.slate.com/id/2153026/?nav=tap3) from Anne Applebaum. I don't agree entirely with Hitch, but he makes interesting points.

[xsedrinam]

I disagree, Saddam is a symbol in death, but an empty one.

Interesting articles, again from Slate, one (http://www.slate.com/id/2152999/nav/tap1/) from Christopher Hitchens, the other (http://www.slate.com/id/2153026/?nav=tap3) from Anne Applebaum. I don't agree entirely with Hitch, but he makes interesting points.
They're for different reasons, but Egyptian President Mubarak (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6134626.stm) comes out against it claiming it will encite more bloodshed.

[hulugu]

They're for different reasons, but Egyptian President Mubarak (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6134626.stm) comes out against it claiming it will encite more bloodshed.

In the short term, he might be right, but I can't help but think that in the long term stability of Iraq, the death of Saddam means the old Baathist regime is truly dead and gone, and that's a good thing.

Mubarak might also be more nervous about the implications of hanging an Arab leader considering his own country is slightly unstable and his hands are bloody as well. Maybe there's a bit of self-preservation in his statement.

[mischief]

Even the guillotine has problems, it takes a bit of time for the brain to die.

The irony being that the device mentioned was named for it's inventor... who was looking for a humane alternative to the methods popular at the time in the Bastille. He was horrified when, during the revolution his invention was used to efficiently dispatch incredible numbers of aristocrats on short order.


It seems that all mean of capital punishment are horrible in their own way. Firing Squad, unless someone hits the heart or head it's going to hurt a lot.
Hanging, if the rope is the wrong length the person strangles or they fall fast enough their head is messily removed.
Gas, nothing like inhaling a lung-searing posion.
Electrocution, unless the voltage is delivered right, the person feels it.
Lethal injection. If the first chemical fails to knock the person unconcious, the second chemical may be incredibly painful.
Beheading...

There's no humane way to kill someone.

I disagree.
The Utah method, as has been adopted in most states is flawed. The process of reduced suffering through lethal injection has only been studied and refined in detail in veterinary medicine. The Utah Method evolved without medical aid. No physician would volunteer to develop or administer a process.The process was developped by unqualified individuals without medical endorsement, as have been most methods of execution.

My fundamental problem with executions is this: The techniques exist to reduce euthanasia to a moment of sensing a bitterness in one's mouth... then nothing. I have seen and assisted with this many times, it is humane and widely accepted for ending the lives of family pets, livestock and so on. So why do we insist on executing people in horrible ways?

Because it's execution, not euthanasia. The Criminal Justice system is punative, not reformist. Mechanisms for rehabilitation, the sorting of the convicted into psychologically, emotionally or functionally maladjusted and steps towards correction are not present and would meet active resistance.

The CJ system is not about humanity. It is not about recovering society's most dammaged and abandoned citizens, it's about punishing those who cannot fit the mould and killing those we find most offensive.

Americans are caught between their basically revenge-oriented societal model and their better instincts... which really only makes us cowards. We are afraid to revel in the carnage we so desire in payment for the misdeeds of our most pathetic citizens and we are afraid to render aid to them because it would require taking some responsibility for the fact that this society breeds criminals, addicts, the insane and the murderous.

So instead of offering the hope of recovery from violence for those who are capable of it and humanely euthanizing the tiny remainder we encarcerate an ever increasing number of citizens for ever smaller offenses for ever increasing lengths of time and torture the most abbhorant offenders with a sick parody of true euthanasia.

Justice? I think not. What we have in America is vengeance.

[hulugu]

The irony being that the device mentioned was named for it's inventor... who was looking for a humane alternative to the methods popular at the time in the Bastille. He was horrified when, during the revolution his invention was used to efficiently dispatch incredible numbers of aristocrats on short order.




I disagree.
...Justice? I think not. What we have in America is vengeance.

That was my point. There's no 'humane' way to execute someone. The gulliotine is bloody and horrible to witness, I assume, but probably the most painless way to die. Lethal injection might appear easy, but might be horrible for the person. As a society we're hypocrites about this. Either we accept that it's vengence as tempered by the justice system and defined by law, and that it comes with the 'collateral damage' of innocent people steamrolled by the system, or we stop doing it.

[hulugu]

The point is, I do not blame the U.S. military for all of these deaths. They do what they are told. I blame the people who made the policies. Also, the claims about Saddam's brutality towards his own people seem to ring a bit hollow in light of all the death and destruction which the Iraqi people have been forced to endure in order to experience their "liberation." In his wildest imagination Saddam could not have brought about such carnage on his own countrymen. And for this, he will hang? Sometimes the irony is just too much.

In the future, 'invade Iraq' will become a phrase, similar to 'Pyrric War' that means to invite disaster or do something without regard to advice or opposition.

As in, "You're going to tell her about that stripper, what do you want to do invade Iraq!"

Although, I would say that Saddam intentionally executed people, while the US Administration acted out of negligence and incompetence. So, while Saddam gets charged with 1st Degree Murder, Bush and Co. should be charged with manslaughter. Of course 150,000 counts might take a while to serve.

[ozontheroad]

the US invaded Iraq with the pretext of WMD which were never found.

now we know that North koreas has them, so... when does that invasion begin?

oh right... there is NO oil in North Korea

the trial is a farce and the US has absolutely no right to be there or prosecute their former leaders

murder by numbers

[solvs]

I heard a good point on Real Time with Bill Maher. Someone mentioned that even though most of them hate him too, this will be seen as something "we" did. And we are not popular. The court that convicted him are seen as our puppets because they haven't set up their own, independent courts and legal system yet.

I agree that he's a symbol in death, but as you alluded to hulugu, probably the bad kind.