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uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 02:26 PM
So, what will the strategies be in both camps for the 2004 elections?

If the republicans want to hang on to it, what will their "message" be? I

f the democrats are wanting back in, what will they have to say?

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 02:42 PM
My suggestions for the democrats:

"The Economy Has Hit Rock Bottom Under Republican Rule...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"The US's World Standing Under Republican Rule has Plummeted...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"The Republicans Have Made A Mess of the Environment. Now They Want To Kill It...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Individual Liberties Guaranteed By The Constitution Have Been Hijacked By The Republicans...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Corporate Greed and Scandal Reached All Time Highs Under Republican Rule, Stripping You of Your Retirement...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Have you got more money in your pocket than you did four years ago? Thank The Republicans...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Look What Has Happened To The USA Since The Republicans Took Power:
- Bad Economy
- Bad Environment
- Bad World Standing
- Bad News For Reigious Freedom
- Civil Liberties usurped
- HUGE energy cost increases
- Government Has Gotten HUGE
- Accounting that makes "fuzzy" math look clear
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do.
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

And the beat goes on. The cool part about having the Republicans in total control for a couple of years is that, predictably, the USA has slid about as far as it can slide. AND, there is only one party to blame. Bush got in my pretending there were economic and energy problems. Guess what? He made them a reality! Bush got in by negative campaigning on issues that weren't even issues.

Democrats don't have to pretend. All they have to do is tell it like it is.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 02:47 PM
Or:

FREE THE USA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

LIBERATE AMERICA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

OPERATION: LIBERATE AMERICA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

We Were Once A Rich Nation.
We Can Be Again...
Vote Democrat

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by uburoibob
Or:

FREE THE USA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

LIBERATE AMERICA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

OPERATION: LIBERATE AMERICA!
Vote Democrat!

or:

We Were Once A Rich Nation.
We Can Be Again...
Vote Democrat

See, you start a thread that seems like a great thread, and before I can even respond to the propaganda in your first response, you have to go and make an ******* of yourself again. See these are the kinds of statements that make people like you hated by normal people. Your opinion is so far to the left it is nearly impossible for anyone to understand and relate to your position. I cannot even respect it, and for me that is very difficult. To insinuate that there is any comparison between the liberation of Iraq, and what you THINK the Bush administration is doing, or has done, is an insult to every American that I know, and all that I don't know. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting something like that even if you do believe, and especially if it is a joke!

As for your first post. Frankly, I thought the post was a joke. But then I saw that you had posted it. So,


"The Economy Has Hit Rock Bottom Under Republican Rule...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"The US's World Standing Under Republican Rule has Plummeted...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"The Republicans Have Made A Mess of the Environment. Now They Want To Kill It...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do!"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Individual Liberties Guaranteed By The Constitution Have Been Hijacked By The Republicans...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Corporate Greed and Scandal Reached All Time Highs Under Republican Rule, Stripping You of Your Retirement...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat

"Have you got more money in your pocket than you did four years ago? Thank The Republicans...
We Can Do Better! We ALWAYS Do"
Take Back The USA - Vote Democrat


The economy was already slidding before Bush ever took office. The same thing would have happend even had Gore had won, because the majority of the problem was 9/11.

How has our world standing slipped? That is just false. What, with the French, Germans, and Russians? So friggin what. The french have been ****ing us without so much as a reach around for the last 100 years, what is new about that?

The republicans have made a mess of the environment. BS! People have. We all have. Our lifestyle has. Not republicans. do you own a car? Eat out? Run the air conditioner? I love how you think it is republicans fault. Kennedy says that Americans should not have SUV's, then goes and hops on a private plane getting 4 miles to the gallon! Yep. Limo Liberals at their best.

Your right to plot and conduct terrorist operations in the United States have been taken away by the Executive, Legislative, and Judical branches of this Government. I say Good.

Corporate greed! you have to be kidding me. Those took place under the Clinton Admin, and came to light under the Bush admin! But I guess that depends on what the meaning of is is.

Yes, I do have more money in my pocket.


As for Bush.

He should run on the facts. Conducting the war on terror. Making Americans safer. Also, on the fact that the economy has continued to rebound. Interests rates, home sales, etc are still the best in decades. Furthermore, ask the question that Reagan asked. "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"

How many of us here are?

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 03:49 PM
Back-To-The-Mac

You have to resort to name calling and threats - a republican tactic if ever I have seen one. I just don't get it.

This thread asks what the winning strategies in 2004 will be - not a rebuttal of other people's strategy ideas.

So let's hear them now!

PS, Back to the Mac - you want to refer to me in the minority, and you as "normal". I would define you as many things, but "normal" doesn't really come to mind. Just the fact that you voted for Bush in 2000 puts you, and all the others who voted for him in the minority. I am not sure that qualifies you as "normal". Remember, the majority, the "normal" people voted for Gore - or did you forget that?

America - Let The People Be Heard
Vote Democrat - Again!

lmalave
Apr 23, 2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac

Also, on the fact that the economy has continued to rebound. Interests rates, home sales, etc are still the best in decades. Furthermore, ask the question that Reagan asked. "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"


Well, when the Fed sets the prime rate to 1.5%, of course interest rates are going to be low and that's going to prop up the real estate market. Basically, the Fed has been trying to replace the stock market bubble with a real estate bubble.

And I really don't think Republicans want people to start asking "are you better off than you were four years ago?". Geez, I know I'm not. My base salary is down 25% and my total income more than that. And quite frankly, I consider myself lucky to have a job after being out of work for a few months last year. Just as under Bush Sr., this is a "jobless recovery", where jobs are being shed and there is downward pressure on salaries. This is in stark contrast to the Clinton years when even the chronically unemployed started getting jobs.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
ask the question that Reagan asked. "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"

How many of us here are?

I don't know anyone who is better off today than they were 4 years ago. Fortunately, I took everything I had out of the Stock Market when the Supremes handed the election to Bush. Which means, I didn't start losing principal the way most people I know did. My business had the worst year ever two years ago, as we watch business after business run for cover. If interest rates hadn't gone so low, we wouldn't have a place to live at all.

So, I think that is a GREAT platform for the republicans - ask America if they are better off than they were 4 years ago! Beautiful!

lmalave
Apr 23, 2003, 04:00 PM
I touched on this already in another thread, but I think the Democrats are going to have to have a very positive message. Clinton was able to win because his basic message was "we can do better". Y'know, with Fleetwood Mac's "Dont Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" as the theme song and all that. I think if Dems start going negative they will get crushed. We need another idealistic Clintonesque campaign. Is there a Democratic candidate with the personality and campaign message to pull it off, though?

In terms of the Republicans, their best strategy is to have "Stay the Course" as its mantra. On national security, they are going to argue that we need continuity in leadership to finish the job. On the economy, they are going to argue that terrorism and SARS have delayed recovering from the Dot Com bubble-burst, and a turnaround is just around the corner if we just stay the course.

jelloshotsrule
Apr 23, 2003, 04:02 PM
bob- i'd agree with you in general about the current administration doing a bad job... but clearly this thread is flame bait, at least once you started replying to it

the concept is fine. but you threw out some pretty heavy handed jabs at the republican party. and didn't mention the democratic party.

but alas, the things i'd like to see the parties do are not what they will do, or what they need to do to get elected, so i won't even venture out into the political garbage that is our current system.

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by uburoibob
Back-To-The-Mac

You have to resort to name calling and threats - a republican tactic if ever I have seen one. I just don't get it.

This thread asks what the winning strategies in 2004 will be - not a rebuttal of other people's strategy ideas.

So let's hear them now!

PS, Back to the Mac - you want to refer to me in the minority, and you as "normal". I would define you as many things, but "normal" doesn't really come to mind. Just the fact that you voted for Bush in 2000 puts you, and all the others who voted for him in the minority. I am not sure that qualifies you as "normal". Remember, the majority, the "normal" people voted for Gore - or did you forget that?

America - Let The People Be Heard
Vote Democrat - Again!

Dude, I did not call names, and what friggin threat are you talking about. Did I threaten to hand you your ass if I ever met you? NO! As for normal. Normal is not about who you vote for, it is about being, well, normal. IE, not implying that the administration is = to the Iraqi regime. That is nomal. Implying they are = not normal.

:rolleyes:

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by uburoibob
I don't know anyone who is better off today than they were 4 years ago. Fortunately, I took everything I had out of the Stock Market when the Supremes handed the election to Bush. Which means, I didn't start losing principal the way most people I know did. My business had the worst year ever two years ago, as we watch business after business run for cover. If interest rates hadn't gone so low, we wouldn't have a place to live at all.

So, I think that is a GREAT platform for the republicans - ask America if they are better off than they were 4 years ago! Beautiful!

Yea, I hope they do, because I think that most Americans are smart enough to figure out that the economy went south because of 9/11, and because of the natural cycle of the market. AND, I think that most people are better off than they were 4 years ago. Everyone I know is. And not over of them makes over 100,000 a year, except for one, and they are worse off.

sparkleytone
Apr 23, 2003, 04:54 PM
threads like these don't matter. its typical democrat drivel anyways. i am a fierce independent, but I tend to agree most often with the right side of a given issue. here we go again with the democrat ideal of catering to the now. it seems that no democrat ever has a true sense of the past (when they were wrong) or the repercussions of their actions on the future (when we reap the 'benefits' of their mistakes). democrats have historically enjoyed a more media friendly image because of the instant gratification atmosphere that live media tends to lean towards. there is no typical cause and effect outlook for your average extreme left winger. it is simply a string of thoughts and 'beliefs' that will look really good right now. when later comes they know that the people are of fickle mind, and will have forgotten that he or she was wrong in the first place. i say no thanks...i'm smarter than that.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Dude, I did not call names, and what friggin threat are you talking about. Did I threaten to hand you your ass if I ever met you? NO! As for normal. Normal is not about who you vote for, it is about being, well, normal. IE, not implying that the administration is = to the Iraqi regime. That is nomal. Implying they are = not normal.

:rolleyes:

More eye rolling. NORMAL is what most of us believe - it's the meaning of the word. If you want to be NORMAL - you want to be like everybody else. Since everyone is not the same, then you want to be like MOST everybody else. MOST everybody else voted for GORE. Got it?

NOW, implying that all is not right with the Bush Regime is NORMAL, or almost NORMAL. A LOT of people are questioning Washington right now. AND GOOD FOR THEM!!!! Because there is a lot in Washington right now that is not good.

You seem to equate EVERYTHING back to 9/11. Guess what - there were problems beginning to develop from the moment BUSH took office.

Now, whether equating Bush's Regime to Sadaam's Regime is normal or not, I don't know - I don't have the real demographics at hand. I DO know that I cannot trust the polls I read. There is little I trust about Government and large pockets of society right now, and THAT is the doing of the Bush regime. I feel like there are two camps - those that can see the damage Bush is doing to this country and those that blindly follow him, mimicking his gestures, and not seeing all of the damage he is inflicting on the nation.

I see myself as normal, in the camp that can see the damage. I am sure you view yourself as normal in the blind camp. So be it. But I guess that you will never be able to make me turn a blind eye, just as I will never be able to make you see what is going on.

And with that as the common ground, you begin to see the fruitlessess of trying to establish any sort of discourse with you, and the other blind followers of this regime. So, enjoy your country from your "normal" point of view - for the rest of us, there's a lot of work that needs to be done to get America back to being America, and a regime change is the first priority!

jelloshotsrule
Apr 23, 2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
its typical democrat drivel anyways.

it seems that no democrat ever has a true sense of the past (when they were wrong) or the repercussions of their actions on the future (when we reap the 'benefits' of their mistakes).

1. whereas republicans are straightshooters?

2. whereas republicans always fess up to the mistakes of the past?


i personally can't stand them both. but i can't stand when people act like one side or the other is all that much better (as politics go, not even talking about their actual policies). they're both lying bastards... with a few rare exceptions which i probably couldn't even name if i tried.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
threads like these don't matter. its typical democrat drivel anyways. i am a fierce independent, but I tend to agree most often with the right side of a given issue. here we go again with the democrat ideal of catering to the now. it seems that no democrat ever has a true sense of the past (when they were wrong) or the repercussions of their actions on the future (when we reap the 'benefits' of their mistakes). democrats have historically enjoyed a more media friendly image because of the instant gratification atmosphere that live media tends to lean towards. there is no typical cause and effect outlook for your average extreme left winger. it is simply a string of thoughts and 'beliefs' that will look really good right now. when later comes they know that the people are of fickle mind, and will have forgotten that he or she was wrong in the first place. i say no thanks...i'm smarter than that.

You know, it's an amazing thing - I read what you write and it doesn't make sense. I simply substitute the word "republican" for "democrat" and poof! it all falls into place.

Yeah, the current administration is sure looking out for our future! The tax cuts really keep that big picture in mind. The drilling of Alaska is ALL about the future. The invasion of Iraq happened because all possible diplomacy had taken place. And on and on. Give me a break with this spool.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Yea, I hope they do, because I think that most Americans are smart enough to figure out that the economy went south because of 9/11, and because of the natural cycle of the market. AND, I think that most people are better off than they were 4 years ago. Everyone I know is. And not over of them makes over 100,000 a year, except for one, and they are worse off.

Yeah - a lot of the ever increasing jobless don't make over $100,000 a year... Bring it on - THIS is a campaign I WANT to see!

Rower_CPU
Apr 23, 2003, 05:22 PM
Posts in this thread have been reported. Tone it down, or it goes to the Wasteland.

billyboy
Apr 23, 2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac

How has our world standing slipped? That is just false. What, with the French, Germans, and Russians? So friggin what. The french have been ****ing us without so much as a reach around for the last 100 years, what is new about that?

You talk as someone looking out to ocean left and right and seeing nothing but calm sea, but unfortunately there is a world of standing slipping over the horizon. "So frigging what" France and Germany just happen to be the powerhouse of a poxy little continent called Europe. If the US wants to win hearts and minds in the Middle East, you as a good American could do worse than respect nations that despite differences, dont hate you to the point of turning a blind eye to terrorists out to get back at the US. At the moment they dont agree that all diplomatic options were explored by the US in the question of Iraq. Not really worth burning bridges over, is it?

The republicans have made a mess of the environment. BS! People have. We all have. Our lifestyle has. Not republicans.

Yep 8% of the world glugging 50% of the energy has certainly done that alright. Trouble is, every US Govt in modern times has abdicated responsibility for really protecting the environment and opted to keep the high consumption going higher behind smoke screens of greenism.

It might seem OK scoffing gas on the island US in blissful isolation thinking everyone does it so it is alright, occasionally beating chests that something has to be done to save the US/world environment - but the cost of expecting each new administration to give you the right to keep the consumption cycle going up all the while has a payback beyond the shores of America. This sort of ties in with your errant idea that world standing is intact - Kyoto made the US a whole bunch of friends, not, and there dont seem to be any moves to rectify that tension/incredulity around the world.

[/B]

pseudobrit
Apr 23, 2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Dude, I did not call names, and what friggin threat are you talking about.

...

you have to go and make an ******* of yourself again.

There's only one 7-letter cuss word noun that I can think of that would get caught in the filter... I suggest you follow your own advice (http://forums.macrumors.com/.php?s=&threadid=24768).

ask the question that Reagan asked. "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"
How many of us here are?

1st rule of law/politics: don't ask a question unless you know for sure what the answer is.

Most Americans are not better off today than they were four years ago, including me.

You appear to be shielded from the reality of the situation by your own success. This is something that troubles me about Bush, too. He seems to have an attitude of not knowing (or caring) about the average American because he's never been an average American. He's never had to worry about a layoff or healthcare or how to pay the rent or mortgage or how he's going to pay for a new furnace when his breaks down on a cold November night.

toontra
Apr 23, 2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac

... you have to go and make an ******* of yourself again. See these are the kinds of statements that make people like you hated by normal people.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting something like that even if you do believe, and especially if it is a joke!

The french have been ****ing us without so much as a reach around for the last 100 years, what is new about that?


BTTM,
Where do you get off insulting people who are making points which you disagree with?
I don't see other people making personally offensive remarks in these threads.
I for one am interested in the wide range of views expressed in this forum, but could do without rudeness and arrogance! It degrades the whole thing.
Can I remind you again of your thread from last week ...
your thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24768)
Did you mean for everyone to be respectful apart from yourself?

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by toontra
BTTM,
Where do you get off insulting people who are making points which you disagree with?
I don't see other people making personally offensive remarks in these threads.
I for one am interested in the wide range of views expressed in this forum, but could do without rudeness and arrogance! It degrades the whole thing.
Can I remind you again of your thread from last week ...
your thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24768)
Did you mean for everyone to be respectful apart from yourself?

You know what I do. But to compare my government to the one we just removed it pathetic. It is not even a viable opinion. He did not mean to have a rational discussion, it was posted as flamebait!

I am sorry if anyone things it was rude, but the constant, constant beating from some towards the administration is sad. Sure, disagree if you like, that is fine. I disagree with Rower, mcrain, Jef, and many others on a daily basis, but I learn from them. The only thing I can learn from some of the posters here is how to be a conspiracy theorist, or so radical that even Karl Marx would be scared of you.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
You know what I do. But to compare my government to the one we just removed it pathetic. It is not even a viable opinion. He did not mean to have a rational discussion, it was posted as flamebait!

I am sorry if anyone things it was rude, but the constant, constant beating from some towards the administration is sad. Sure, disagree if you like, that is fine. I disagree with Rower, mcrain, Jef, and many others on a daily basis, but I learn from them. The only thing I can learn from some of the posters here is how to be a conspiracy theorist, or so radical that even Karl Marx would be scared of you.

You keep going on about me comparing the Bush administration to Sadaam Hussein's. In fact I am indicating that the road we are headed down, staffed with the tremendous egos at the helm, is a very precarious road that somehow seems to be headed in the same direction as our adversary. I am truly sorry that you don't see that, but for some of us it is patently clear.

As I said - you have your head so far in the sand that it's impossible to understand the other point of view. And that is JUST what the administration wants. YOU are the perfect citizen for the Bush regime. Congratulations.

uburoibob
Apr 23, 2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
The economy was already slidding before Bush ever took office. The same thing would have happend even had Gore had won, because the majority of the problem was 9/11.

For what it's worth, and I know that you can't see this, but there are those who insist that 9/11 would not have happened if another member of what the radical Muslims refer to as the "Bush Dynasty" was not appointed to the presidency. I have heard that this thing is personal. I know that you can't even begin to understand this, but it wouldn't hurt to keep an open mind.

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by uburoibob
You keep going on about me comparing the Bush administration to Sadaam Hussein's. In fact I am indicating that the road we are headed down, staffed with the tremendous egos at the helm, is a very precarious road that somehow seems to be headed in the same direction as our adversary. I am truly sorry that you don't see that, but for some of us it is patently clear.

As I said - you have your head so far in the sand that it's impossible to understand the other point of view. And that is JUST what the administration wants. YOU are the perfect citizen for the Bush regime. Congratulations.


I will not even respond to your flawed logic any longer. They said the same thing when Reagan was in office. Enjoy your life.

Backtothemac
Apr 23, 2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by uburoibob
For what it's worth, and I know that you can't see this, but there are those who insist that 9/11 would not have happened if another member of what the radical Muslims refer to as the "Bush Dynasty" was not appointed to the presidency. I have heard that this thing is personal. I know that you can't even begin to understand this, but it wouldn't hurt to keep an open mind.


Ok to hell with it. This will be my second to last post ever. I am so sick of this ****! Dude, what the **** do you think was going on when Clinton was in office. You are one of those narrow minded friggin people that divide everything between the left and right. You see life as flawed! Get over yourself. What happened in NY in 93? How about the Cole? How about Kenya? Tansinia? 9/11 was just more of the same from the radical muslims.