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Massachusetts Court Declares Burritos Not Sandwiches

thedude110

thedude110

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 13, 2005
2,478
2
So, Panera Bread went to court to to argue for a broader definition of "sandwich", seeking to add quesadillas, burritos and tacos to the sandwich family.

Well, Massachusetts wasn't going to have any of that.

And why does Panera bread care? Well, if they can corner the quesadilla market, they can close down competition, apparently.

Link.
 
WildCowboy

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
18,389
2,825
Duh...my dictionary says that one of the characteristics of a sandwich is two pieces of bread. (Apparently anything more than that would be a Dagwood.)
 
WildCowboy

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
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skunk said:
Anything more than that would be gluttony.
Click to expand...

Hey...I occasionally go for the three-bread-slice sandwich, particularly when there are only three slices left in the bag and two of them are heels. Does that make me a heel?
 
thedude110

thedude110

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 13, 2005
2,478
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The court's ruling seems to seriously jeapordize the open-faced sandwich. Without the second piece of bread, does the open-faced sandwich face a difficult transition from sandwich sub-genre to kingdom of its own?

135930330.jpg
 
A

aquajet

macrumors 68020
Feb 12, 2005
2,386
9
VA
I wonder where open sandwiches fall in this mess.

Apparently, somewhere ahead of me.
 
nbs2

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,719
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A geographical oddity
It was a long shot, but clearly worth pursuing. Mall traffic for food tends to be rather profitable, with shoppers and all (especially in the winter when trips outside are kept to a minimum). If they could have convinced the judge to rule in their favor, that would have minimized competition. Additionally, it is always good business to get maximum clarity from a court regarding the interpretation of a contract - since that would be in the interest of both Panera and the mall.
 
MacNut

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,995
9,973
CT
Qdoba, owned by San Diego-based Jack in the Box Inc., called food experts to testify on its behalf.

Among them was Cambridge chef Chris Schlesinger, who said in an affidavit: "I know of no chef or culinary historian who would call a burrito a sandwich. Indeed, the notion would be absurd to any credible chef or culinary historian."
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so this is were court cases are headed?:eek:

Ok i want to know if there is a food court in this mall and if Mc Donald's is there since they sell a McChicken isn't that a sandwich?
 
B

BengalDuck

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2006
218
1
Ahh... I love how tax dollars are spent!

(And for the record - Sandwiches can have 1 piece of bread, like the open face. But it must be a hoagie-type piece instead of a regular old sliced bread. They can be slices of bread, like the club as well.)
 
MacNut

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,995
9,973
CT
BengalDuck said:
Ahh... I love how tax dollars are spent!

(And for the record - Sandwiches can have 1 piece of bread, like the open face. But it must be a hoagie-type piece instead of a regular old sliced bread. They can be slices of bread, like the club as well.)
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What about bread without crust, since the bread has been modified does it still count as a sandwich?
 
B

BengalDuck

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2006
218
1
Absolutely! It's still bread... I've always eaten the crust but as long as theres bread there it's good.

How many posts until my title reads "Sandwich Judge of MA"?
 
F

fotografica

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2006
3,368
1
Boston
Let's what we have going on in this state right now...Our infrastructure is literally crumbling around us (read Big Dig,lol),people are leaving the state in droves,the state's economy is lagging,RE prices are still insanely overpriced,we have a governor that's hardly in the state anymore,the welfare system is abused left and right (don't even get me started on that,lol) and all the courts can spend time on is deciding the correct terminology for a sandwich???Ahh gotta love this state :D :D
 
Abstract

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,836
848
Location Location Location
They needed experts and chefs and agriculural officials to convince the judge and others that a burrito isn't a sandwich?

There really should be a law of common sense so that people's time isn't wasted.

aquajet said:
I wonder where open sandwiches fall in this mess.

Apparently, somewhere ahead of me.
Click to expand...

But then a pizza would count as a sandwich. Where will the madness end!
 
ozontheroad

ozontheroad

macrumors 6502
Aug 4, 2006
293
0
the reef
they could start by demonstrating that Burritos are considered sandwiches in Mexico

but they are not... I spent 4 months in Mexico last year and sandwiches are called "tortas" and Burritos are ....well.... burritos
 
nbs2

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,719
491
A geographical oddity
fotografica said:
Let's what we have going on in this state right now...Our infrastructure is literally crumbling around us (read Big Dig,lol),people are leaving the state in droves,the state's economy is lagging,RE prices are still insanely overpriced,we have a governor that's hardly in the state anymore,the welfare system is abused left and right (don't even get me started on that,lol) and all the courts can spend time on is deciding the correct terminology for a sandwich???Ahh gotta love this state :D :D
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Yes. But, people still have contract disputes. The courts don't exist solely to resolve major questions. The courts don't have the power to tell the Gov to stay in MA or the legislature to fix the welfare system (at least, based on the failure you describe).

Abstract said:
They needed experts and chefs and agriculural officials to convince the judge and others that a burrito isn't a sandwich?

There really should be a law of common sense so that people's time isn't wasted.
Click to expand...

I don't think the judge was that well versed in the food industry. When interpreting a contract, the factfinder should be aware of common use in the industry. When I say I will buy 10 chickens from you, does that mean 10 fryers, boilers, or a mix? You need experts to make the court aware. Same with the burrito/sandwich. What if contrary to common sense, food experts grouped the two in the same class of "filling contained within a grain product"? This is especially distressing as "wraps" are becoming a popular low-carb alternative to traditional bread.

Can anybody here provide a satisfactory distinction between a cheesesteak wrap, a cheesesteak, and a beef and cheese burrito (other than the first is really a Swiss-topped freak of nature)?
 
iGary

iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,580
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Randy's House
Kind of off-tangent, but Chipotle (a burrito place) wanted to open a store in our downtown area here and the city wouldn't let them because they serve with plastic forks. :rolleyes:
 
Abstract

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,836
848
Location Location Location
nbs2 said:
What if contrary to common sense, food experts grouped the two in the same class of "filling contained within a grain product"? This is especially distressing as "wraps" are becoming a popular low-carb alternative to traditional bread.
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Well the mall's food experts didn't sign that agreement and probably signed something they interpreted as completely different. Even if it was true in the culinary world, the people who signed it thought a sandwich was what most people interpret as a sandwich. I think that part of the contract would never hold up in court anyway. Hit me if I ever call a pizza a "sandwich".
 
nbs2

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,719
491
A geographical oddity
Abstract said:
Well the mall's food experts didn't sign that agreement and probably signed something they interpreted as completely different. Even if it was true in the culinary world, the people who signed it thought a sandwich was what most people interpret as a sandwich. I think that part of the contract would never hold up in court anyway. Hit me if I ever call a pizza a "sandwich".
Click to expand...

What would the mall have signed? Or, if I understand you correctly, are you saying that the mall's food experts were not the signers - it was the mall's administration, who would not be viewed as understanding a broader interpretation? I would view that failure against the mall - they are savvy enough to have understood the need to define terms. Their attorneys should have known to define the terms explicitly (although, here the fault rests with the Panera attorneys who did not define sandwich well enough) and avoid having to rely on a culinary definition.

Can I ask why you think that the clause wouldn't hold up in court?
 
Y

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
In court papers, Panera, a St. Louis-based chain of more than 900 cafes, argued for a broad definition of a sandwich, saying that a flour tortilla is bread and that a food product with bread and a filling is a sandwich.
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First we're the home of the highest crime rate in the US. Now we're the home of some idiots who think a burrito is a sandwich. I think the media just wants STL to look bad after our world series brought in the lowest ratings in history :D


And it's St. Louis Bread Company, not Panera dammit!
 
IJ Reilly

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
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Palookaville
MacNut said:
Ok i want to know if there is a food court in this mall and if Mc Donald's is there since they sell a McChicken isn't that a sandwich?
Click to expand...

I think this case has already been to Food Court. If the sandwich shop doesn't agree with the ruling, I believe the next step would be to the Court of Unappealing.
 
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