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rdowns
Nov 14, 2006, 05:06 AM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Chundles
Nov 14, 2006, 05:08 AM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

First headline on zunerumors.com

"2G Zune said to be "slightly less crap" - Microsoft"

amiga
Nov 14, 2006, 05:28 AM
:)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6143500.stm

I'm surprised it took this long to get a post about it:)

DeSnousa
Nov 14, 2006, 05:55 AM
This annoys me.

79 Zune points equals 99 cents which buys a single

Converting real cash to points, it makes consumers think they are paying 79 cents for a track :mad:

Not to mention idiots claiming that the store is cheaper than iTunes.

Scarlet Fever
Nov 14, 2006, 06:01 AM
This annoys me.



Converting real cash to points, it makes consumers think they are paying 79 cents for a track :mad:

Not to mention idiots claiming that the store is cheaper than iTunes.

i hate it as well, but i must admit it is a very good marketing strategy. people see a lower figure, and assume it means price.

also, people neglect the fact that the screen has the same resolution as the iPod (thus making it non-widescreen), and the fact that shared songs are only good for 3 plays/days.

they can't even make it a good brown...:rolleyes:

BoyBach
Nov 14, 2006, 06:05 AM
Check out engadgets experince with installing the Zune software.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

Sesshi
Nov 14, 2006, 06:31 AM
I was interested when news about the Zunes features came out but now my interest in it has bottomed out. Plus the rumours that the Zune may not be out in Europe until 2008 means I'll wait a couple of months after it's actually available here to buy it.

Fearless Leader
Nov 14, 2006, 06:36 AM
This annoys me.



Converting real cash to points, it makes consumers think they are paying 79 cents for a track :mad:

Not to mention idiots claiming that the store is cheaper than iTunes.

No, they are trying to avoid the credit card fees by selling large chuncks of points which they don't pay fees for using.

and it could be cheaper, If you buy in bulk

emotion
Nov 14, 2006, 07:18 AM
Check out engadgets experince with installing the Zune software.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

That makes for entertaining reading :)

BoyBach
Nov 14, 2006, 07:27 AM
No, they are trying to avoid the credit card fees by selling large chuncks of points which they don't pay fees for using.

and it could be cheaper, If you buy in bulk


But I want to buy a single song for 79 pence, not a block of 'credits' for £5.

I heard on the TWIT podcast that somebody worked out that the minimum it would cost to get your 'credit' back to zero would be $490-ish! If this is correct then I am not not going to pay nearly $500 for a 79 pence song. And I think a lot of other people will be the same.

iGary
Nov 14, 2006, 07:29 AM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But most people hae no idea what the frack it is.

Apple normally advertises no specifics... adds intrigue, which drives people to investigate.

People see Zune and go "wow, a brick-shaped turd."

emotion
Nov 14, 2006, 07:31 AM
But I want to buy a single song for 79 pence, not a block of 'credits' for £5.

I heard on the TWIT podcast that somebody worked out that the minimum it would cost to get your 'credit' back to zero would be $490-ish! If this is correct then I am not not going to pay nearly $500 for a 79 pence song. And I think a lot of other people will be the same.

Do you honestly take that to mean it'll cost you $500 for a 79pence song??

Fearless Leader
Nov 14, 2006, 07:37 AM
Do you honestly take that to mean it'll cost you $500 for a 79pence song??

Hope not, they were just working out to what point would break even with microsoft. When somebody hacks this puppy to work with itunes i might get one.

omfg on nbc they compared the zune to a 4th gen b&w ipod :eek:

emotion
Nov 14, 2006, 07:41 AM
Hope not, they were just working out to what point would break even with microsoft. When somebody hacks this puppy to work with itunes i might get one.

If you care about a few cents. There's apparently enough wrong with this device and it's software without picking holes in their 'token' model.

So, I thought the zune would be a little failure but judging on the two reviews I've seen so far installation isn't even easy. This is gonna bomb.

BoyBach
Nov 14, 2006, 07:43 AM
Do you honestly take that to mean it'll cost you $500 for a 79pence song??


No. I just mean that I want to but a song for a set price and not effectively loan Microsoft, nor any company for that matter, some money (God knows that they don't need it, but I do).

For example, I buy a block of 'credits' for £5 (?) and then buy a song for 79 pence, which means that Microsoft still has £4.21 of my money. I buy another two songs for £1.58 (Microsoft still has £2.63 of my money) and so on until I spend all the available credits - Microsoft still has 26 pence that is mine and that I cannot spend without buying another block of 'credits' for £5. Therefore the only way that can spend all of my money ('credits' equals zero) is to spend hundreds of pounds on the Zune store.

It's a pathetic, misleading system and a potential barrier to entry for a lot of people.

Fearless Leader
Nov 14, 2006, 07:46 AM
No. I just mean that I want to but a song for a set price and not effectively loan Microsoft, nor any company for that matter, some money (God knows that they don't need it, but I do).

For example, I buy a block of 'credits' for £5 (?) and then buy a song for 79 pence, which means that Microsoft still has £4.21 of my money. I buy another two songs for £1.58 (Microsoft still has £2.63 of my money) and so on until I spend all the available credits - Microsoft still has 26 pence that is mine and that I cannot spend without buying another block of 'credits' for £5. Therefore the only way that can spend all of my money ('credits' equals zero) is to spend hundreds of pounds on the Zune store.

It's a pathetic, misleading system and a potential barrier to entry for a lot of people.

I like my microsoft is a cheap skate and dodging credit charges theory still though

emotion
Nov 14, 2006, 07:46 AM
It's a pathetic, misleading system and a potential barrier to entry for a lot of people.

I agree but I think the drawbacks of this system pale into insignificance compared to all the other shortcomings.

Markleshark
Nov 14, 2006, 08:29 AM
Check out engadgets experince with installing the Zune software.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

lol, good stuff.

iGary
Nov 14, 2006, 08:30 AM
Again (yes again)... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXxCru2TvGo)

BoyBach
Nov 14, 2006, 08:48 AM
Again (yes again)... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXxCru2TvGo)


That's the third time that I have watched that in two days. When will I learn about your 'again' links!?!

(If I was to part my hair, I'd have a Steve Jobs haircut and not my "surfers" mop ;) )

Little Endian
Nov 14, 2006, 08:58 AM
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/fortune/zune/index.html?cnn=yes

someguy
Nov 14, 2006, 09:17 AM
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/fortune/zune/index.html?cnn=yes
Good review, thanks for the link.

iMeowbot
Nov 14, 2006, 09:33 AM
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/fortune/zune/index.html?cnn=yes

Hmmmm.

Even though I purchased music from the Zune Marketplace, and even though I was willing to abide by the DRM's restriction of allowing three plays of a shared song within three days, half the songs I tried to send wirelessly were rejected because, according to the Zune display, I lacked the rights to share those songs. Asked about this, a Microsoft spokesperson said DRM is complicated and that not all artists and labels adhere to the three days and three plays guidelines. Basically, you don't know what the rights are unless you right-click to check every song.
I wonder if this is what the payments to UMG are all about?

BoyBach
Nov 14, 2006, 10:05 AM
Hmmmm.


I wonder if this is what the payments to UMG are all about?


The more I read about this software and store, the more I find about it that I don't like.

gloss
Nov 14, 2006, 10:20 AM
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/fortune/zune/index.html?cnn=yes

Good review. Pretty evenhanded.

Warbrain
Nov 14, 2006, 10:27 AM
Good review. Pretty evenhanded.

While it was a decent review, I don't think it was evenhanded. The author didn't really explain why the iPod was better, but gave a lot of reasons why the Zune is good.

gloss
Nov 14, 2006, 10:41 AM
While it was a decent review, I don't think it was evenhanded. The author didn't really explain why the iPod was better, but gave a lot of reasons why the Zune is good.

I think the article was written assuming that people know the iPod pretty well. If you think about it, 80% of the market is iPod based, so anyone who would be interested in reading about an mp3 player is probably already going to know what an iPod is.

That's just my guess, of course.

cecildk9999
Nov 14, 2006, 10:42 AM
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/

Right next to the Fortune article that was linked in this forum, there's a CNN video link with a news crew and NY Times analyst talking about the new Zune. They don't say anything we don't already know, but the video turns into an iPod Shuffle advertisement when one of the news anchors decides to share her experience. :rolleyes:

Rojo
Nov 14, 2006, 10:54 AM
Check out engadgets experince with installing the Zune software.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

God, what a nightmare.

Not only does it look like you have to jump through hoops to get things running at all, but... is anyone else offended by the wannabe-trendy images that are displayed all over the place during the process? (And I assume more of these pop up throughout using the Zune and its marketplace).

Man -- they are just trying soooo hard to be "hip and cool," but it just gives off the opposite vibe. And it seems to be trying so hard to target such a specific group of music listeners too. The beautiful thing about the iPod is that it doesn't really discriminate with musical tastes. Whether you love hip hop, rock, country, classical, jazz, alternative, rap, world music, oldies, or whatever -- ALL genres and types of listeners are welcome with the iPod (reinforced by the variety of different ads they've had). But I feel like a large portion of music listeners would be put off by the Zune, which seems to be only targeting teens.

It's quite possible teens might fall for this device and choose it just to "be different." And I'm sure M$ will throw tons of money towards marketing it and it will stay around for a while. But it's NEVER going to touch iPod sales with the way they do everything in their power to limit themselves.

RedDragon870503
Nov 14, 2006, 11:22 AM
Did anyone catch CNN news this morning. The anchors HATED the zune... it is on CNN.com if anyone is interested.

Maccus Aurelius
Nov 14, 2006, 11:23 AM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What amazes me is how well Microsh*t manages to take what has obvious design elements of a 1st Gen iPod, then proceed to wipe it up an employees rear end to take away the gloss that makes the ipod so pretty. The Zune even has a translucent shell over the face giving it that glassy kind of layering over it, but does so in a very chinzy tasteless manner. Probably the only upside to this is that it wont be as prone to scratching as the iPod is, but with my Agent 18 case in place, who cares.

If people dont mind the software I can see the Zune doing rather well. But I care very much about my interface experience. If the interface sucks, the whole system sucks. End of story.

yg17
Nov 14, 2006, 11:47 AM
"2G Zune said to be "slightly less crap" - Microsoft"

lol :D


But shall we start taking bets to see if there will even be a 2nd gen Zune? I have a feeling it will fail miserably in sales and it will be nothing but a piece of history this time next year.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Nov 14, 2006, 12:00 PM
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/

Right next to the Fortune article that was linked in this forum, there's a CNN video link with a news crew and NY Times analyst talking about the new Zune. They don't say anything we don't already know, but the video turns into an iPod Shuffle advertisement when one of the news anchors decides to share her experience. :rolleyes:

The end to that video made my day; it was hilarious!

"Why can't they get designers to make their products look good...???"

"Um...uh...."

"It's clunky."

"Heh...Um....uh....."

Maccus Aurelius
Nov 14, 2006, 12:05 PM
lol :D


But shall we start taking bets to see if there will even be a 2nd gen Zune? I have a feeling it will fail miserably in sales and it will be nothing but a piece of history this time next year.

I agree. Even with the Zune Marketplace being young, there is no excuse for being as meager as it is. The fact that Microsoft ignored a very BIG opportunity with its WiFi (PC syncing) shows me that M$ is not listening. With iTunes more than well seasoned, one cant compete using babysteps. Right now they'd need to drive it hard and work to make the software elegant and user friendly. I suspected from day 1 that the Zune's software was not going to work with a Mac, and i was right all along. In order to compete with the ipod, the zune has to compete at every avenue to have a chance of success. Anyone that owns a pre-intel mac is completely alienated by microsoft altogether since they cant even run windows to use it, and intel-mac users such as myself will probably not want to have to dual boot or use parallels to run software for an MP3 player when itunes works perfectly on OS X. Microsoft has made terrible progress with this product, because it's aim to kill the ipod turns out to be nothing more than a Creative Zen nuisance. The only people that get to use it are windoze users, basically microsoft is saying "You apple people keep your ipods, we cater only to our kind" Yeah. great start M$.

On a side note, ipod-haters usually only hate ipods because of the popularity. If you think im kidding, this principle applies to music as well. some pseudo-cultured people tend to think the least popular songs are the ones they should be listening too, and no matter how good something in the mainstream is, their neverending quest for individuality drives them to hate it. So ipod haters will try out the zune, and perhaps theres enough of them to keep the zune afloat, but until microsoft makes their product usable on both win/vista and OS X, there is no possible way the zune will ever ever gain the same foothold that the ipod has. apple has been continuously catering to the windows crowd, even making their computers dual-booting machines. all microsoft did was rip off a 1st gen ipod, wrap it in cheap plastic and flip us mac users the bird. wow.

elfin buddy
Nov 14, 2006, 12:18 PM
Haha, I love how there are threads like this (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2015.msg15980) already...

Fukui
Nov 14, 2006, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by Peter Lewis @ cnn
...a Microsoft spokesperson said DRM is complicated and that not all artists and labels adhere to the three days and three plays guidelines. Basically, you don't know what the rights are unless you right-click to check every song.
Then it will fail until they iron this out. Thier biggest selling point is then crippled from the begining.

GFLPraxis
Nov 14, 2006, 12:20 PM
On top of taking a big loss on every Zune sold (both for the bigger screen and almost totally unused WiFi, and for bribing studios for every Zune sold) and killing off all their partners by not making it PlaysForSure compatible, Microsoft is also throwing money in a HUGE advertising campaign to get people to buy a product that'll lose money, but is not significantly superior and not cheaper than the competing product (iPod) with 70% marketshare.


Sigh.

Warbrain
Nov 14, 2006, 12:29 PM
I agree. Even with the Zune Marketplace being young, there is no excuse for being as meager as it is. The fact that Microsoft ignored a very BIG opportunity with its WiFi (PC syncing) shows me that M$ is not listening. With iTunes more than well seasoned, one cant compete using babysteps. Right now they'd need to drive it hard and work to make the software elegant and user friendly. I suspected from day 1 that the Zune's software was not going to work with a Mac, and i was right all along. In order to compete with the ipod, the zune has to compete at every avenue to have a chance of success. Anyone that owns a pre-intel mac is completely alienated by microsoft altogether since they cant even run windows to use it, and intel-mac users such as myself will probably not want to have to dual boot or use parallels to run software for an MP3 player when itunes works perfectly on OS X. Microsoft has made terrible progress with this product, because it's aim to kill the ipod turns out to be nothing more than a Creative Zen nuisance. The only people that get to use it are windoze users, basically microsoft is saying "You apple people keep your ipods, we cater only to our kind" Yeah. great start M$.

On a side note, ipod-haters usually only hate ipods because of the popularity. If you think im kidding, this principle applies to music as well. some pseudo-cultured people tend to think the least popular songs are the ones they should be listening too, and no matter how good something in the mainstream is, their neverending quest for individuality drives them to hate it. So ipod haters will try out the zune, and perhaps theres enough of them to keep the zune afloat, but until microsoft makes their product usable on both win/vista and OS X, there is no possible way the zune will ever ever gain the same foothold that the ipod has. apple has been continuously catering to the windows crowd, even making their computers dual-booting machines. all microsoft did was rip off a 1st gen ipod, wrap it in cheap plastic and flip us mac users the bird. wow.

You're totally correct. Microsoft has dropped the ball completely. They've already gone and made a device that won't ever be able to compete with the iPod. I'd type more, but my joints are all stiff since I've got a bad stomach bug.

russed
Nov 14, 2006, 12:33 PM
Haha, I love how there are threads like this (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2015.msg15980) already...

haha, that is class, i really like this:

I've managed to freeze my Zune. Now I have to wait for the battery to run out. Microsoft screwed up badly.

Stampyhead
Nov 14, 2006, 12:36 PM
Ha ha, did you see this? They're looking for every opportunity they can find to knock the iPod:
Preloaded Virus - Zune: none; iPod: RavMonE.exe

http://www.zunescene.com/comparison/

Warbrain
Nov 14, 2006, 12:48 PM
Ha ha, did you see this? They're looking for every opportunity they can find to knock the iPod:


http://www.zunescene.com/comparison/

Except that they're wrong on some parts of it. FM receiver? Yea, the iPod has one and you get a damn remote control with it, too.

Blue Velvet
Nov 14, 2006, 01:02 PM
They're looking for every opportunity they can find to knock the iPod:


Also noticed they conveniently forgot to mention that you can't use the Zune as a portable drive... huge selling point for me as I'm often bringing work home in 2gb+ folders.

This product is seriously pathetic and a quick glance through the forums is a laugh really...


http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2012.msg15961#msg15961

I think it's because every post by an apple fanboy/salesman shows how scared they are of the Zune.

They are so scared of what the Zune is going to do to their precious little community that they have to come here and try to talk it down, and they expose their desperation in doing so.

Padraig
Nov 14, 2006, 01:34 PM
lol :D


But shall we start taking bets to see if there will even be a 2nd gen Zune? I have a feeling it will fail miserably in sales and it will be nothing but a piece of history this time next year.

I'd be amazed if there wasn't a second generation zune, even if this one sells 10 units; such is MS desire to succeed in this market. I never really thought that their launch model would be much of a threat to the ipod. Afterall, it is basically a toshiba gigabeat S, just like how the first Xbox utilised standard pc components.

Their goal is to gain a small foothold in the market, build brand awareness and when they are ready release a potential ipod killer. I'd imagine the G2 zune to be as much a quantum leap as the Xbox360 was to the xbox. Remember MS are in this for the long haul.

Maccus Aurelius
Nov 14, 2006, 02:00 PM
Also noticed they conveniently forgot to mention that you can't use the Zune as a portable drive... huge selling point for me as I'm often bringing work home in 2gb+ folders.

This product is seriously pathetic and a quick glance through the forums is a laugh really...


http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2012.msg15961#msg15961

Oh i didn't know that. I constantly use my ipod as an external drive, i dont even use my flash drive anymore because of its far greater capacity. Well I'm with you completely that this thing is pathetic, and the fact that ipods offered disk mode for the longest is a serious indication of ignorance on the part of microsoft.

bmb012
Nov 14, 2006, 02:50 PM
Hm, I like how reviews mention that the Zune can stream to the 360, making it sound like the iPod can't... Hell, my mac can stream to the 360.

Macnoviz
Nov 14, 2006, 03:07 PM
omfg on nbc they compared the zune to a 4th gen b&w ipod :eek:

no way:eek: that is sooo under the belt
I hope they only did case comparisons, because if they would claim Zune plays video and iPod doesn't...:mad: :mad: :mad:

I hope the consumers think just a little bit about it, that would be enough to let the Zune die a silent dead

wkhahn
Nov 14, 2006, 03:11 PM
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/fortune/zune/index.html?cnn=yes

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn

Here is a little news piece from CNN's American Morning. The News people seem to gets whats wrong with the Zune.

Jimmieboy
Nov 14, 2006, 03:16 PM
I haven't heard a single thing about the Zune in Aussie at all. I guess the release date will be later. Its out in time for the holiday season which is great for the people that want to buy something make my microcrap for xmas. Good one microsoft!

ghall
Nov 14, 2006, 03:18 PM
I give the Zune 3 weeks of life. The "hype" will surely die down by then, and then it's toast.

50548
Nov 14, 2006, 03:20 PM
Zune, as its color says, is a DEAD CRAP...nobody bothers and nobody should bother...let them lose some more money, along with that piece of crap called XBox.

Apple is already squeezing MS with the Macs and iPods that more than dominate the scene...Sony will squeeze the other side with the PS3...only MS fanboys will buy this brown brick of crap.

jruc4871
Nov 14, 2006, 03:20 PM
http://www.zunescene.com/

look at the "Gallery" picture on the left - the Zune enthusiast who made the site slimmed down the device in a weak attempt to make it look decent.

Meatball
Nov 14, 2006, 03:23 PM
These are funny:

Show us pictures of your zune (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2055.0)


the ipod doesnt even allow you to use your own headphones... thats one massive flaw right there

TangoCharlie
Nov 14, 2006, 03:29 PM
iPod Nano (PRODUCT) Red 8GB :D :D :D

50548
Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
These are funny:

Show us pictures of your zune (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2055.0)

And who the hell is that Mr. Cheung? Rob Enderle undercover? Or perhaps Mr. Thurrot? :D

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I have been reading all about this Zune for the past few weeks but today I topld three tech savvy people that the Zune was being released today and they ALL responded.."HUH what's that!.":confused: Revealing?

manosaurus
Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
I don't know why I care but....

OMG!

THAT is the best they can come up with?! It reminds me of a priceless remark that a professor of mine once wrote on a friend's term paper. He wrote, "E____, this paper is 'woefully awful', F."

Thanks Dr. Ong. I always knew that I would get a chance to bite that remark.

Lord Blackadder
Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
I also notice that this (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=78.0) thread on the zunescene site shows that 56% of respondents so far actually preferred the infamous brown color.

Hmmmm.

I like the larger screen on the Zune, but it ruins the appearance. Until Apple comes out with the "all screen" iPod with "virtual" click wheel, I don't think a bigger screen is possible while keeping the iPod attractive.

Don't panic
Nov 14, 2006, 03:34 PM
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/

Right next to the Fortune article that was linked in this forum, there's a CNN video link with a news crew and NY Times analyst talking about the new Zune.

OUCH!
i think especially the lack of backward compatibility with MS-purchased tunes is going to hurt them.
they only thing going for them is the amount of cash they are willing to lose per piece until it develops into a decent product

AtHomeBoy_2000
Nov 14, 2006, 03:36 PM
Check out engadgets experince with installing the Zune software.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_software_06.jpg
Ok, seriously... that install pic looks like a 3rd grade took a picture and photoshoped the words on top of it. VERY lame!

ieani
Nov 14, 2006, 03:37 PM
nothing impressive

manosaurus
Nov 14, 2006, 03:41 PM
God, what a nightmare.

Not only does it look like you have to jump through hoops to get things running at all, but... is anyone else offended by the wannabe-trendy images that are displayed all over the place during the process? (And I assume more of these pop up throughout using the Zune and its marketplace).

Man -- they are just trying soooo hard to be "hip and cool," but it just gives off the opposite vibe. And it seems to be trying so hard to target such a specific group of music listeners too. The beautiful thing about the iPod is that it doesn't really discriminate with musical tastes. Whether you love hip hop, rock, country, classical, jazz, alternative, rap, world music, oldies, or whatever -- ALL genres and types of listeners are welcome with the iPod (reinforced by the variety of different ads they've had). But I feel like a large portion of music listeners would be put off by the Zune, which seems to be only targeting teens.

It's quite possible teens might fall for this device and choose it just to "be different." And I'm sure M$ will throw tons of money towards marketing it and it will stay around for a while. But it's NEVER going to touch iPod sales with the way they do everything in their power to limit themselves.


What do you mean man? Zune isn't just an mp3/video player.... It's a state of mind (hear that last part in a whispered Christopher Walken voice.)


Zune man... Zune.

slffl
Nov 14, 2006, 03:42 PM
I used to like the layout of the Zune, with the 4:3 screen turned sideways, but I just realized that the Zune doesn't look like it's possible to operate with one hand. LAME. Do they even try to use their products before they release them?

benthewraith
Nov 14, 2006, 03:43 PM
Gotta hand it to Microsoft, they have done a great job in getting publicity for the Zune. It's all over the 'net, local TV news all have stories on it and I saw a ton of bus ads yesterday. I have now Zuned out.

Searching the web, a ton of forums and Zune sites have popped up. Will you...

check out the zunezone?
be a member of the zunenation?
check out news at zuneinsider?
check ou the zunescene?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You've forgot zuneworld, which nearly crashed Safari.

Stridder44
Nov 14, 2006, 03:44 PM
What the hell guys the Zune is awesome! Don't trash talk it! I just got mine today, check it out!

http://i15.tinypic.com/2v0fyf6.png

AtHomeBoy_2000
Nov 14, 2006, 03:45 PM
Do you honestly take that to mean it'll cost you $500 for a 79pence song??

The point was that with iTunes, you pay $.99 for a song. With Zune, you pay in blocks of money. Unless you buy $490+ worth of music, you will alwyas have points left over to use. Very lame concept.

mach1andy
Nov 14, 2006, 03:46 PM
Microsoft stock went down, Apple stock went up!! Not sure if someone posted that yet, but just saw it in the news!

aussie_geek
Nov 14, 2006, 03:46 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.


It is the same price as an iPod. I wouldn't buy one as I am not in the market for a new MP3 player however, if I was, I would definitely consider getting one. I reckon M$ has made a hit here. Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. Just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it won't make consumers run away. Don't kid yourself, people don't care who makes it, unlike us here on the forum.

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod.

Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek

Stridder44
Nov 14, 2006, 03:53 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.


It is the same price as an iPod. I wouldn't buy one as I am not in the market for a new MP3 player however, if I was, I would definitely consider getting one. I reckon M$ has made a hit here. Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. Just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it won't make consumers run away. Don't kid yourself, people don't care who makes it, unlike us here on the forum.

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod.

Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek


Not when they're watching the review of it on CNN they won't. (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac)

Yvan256
Nov 14, 2006, 03:53 PM
By buying a second generation iPod shuffle! Wow is that thing small and impressive! :D

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 03:53 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.


It is the same price as an iPod. I wouldn't buy one as I am not in the market for a new MP3 player however, if I was, I would definitely consider getting one. I reckon M$ has made a hit here. Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. Just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it won't make consumers run away. Don't kid yourself, people don't care who makes it, unlike us here on the forum.

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod.

Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek

Yes BUT YOU KNOW that very soon...probably in January at MACWORLD or soon therafter, THERE will be the widescreen iPod, possibly with wireless that means something... For me it is still only about the music and my 80GB iPods filled with 19,450 songs works great. So when will Apple release a 100GB VERSION??:p

war
Nov 14, 2006, 03:59 PM
After reading all the hype about the Zune I was expecting something amazing. However, after reading some sites about the thing I find it to be a rather underwhelming product. It already has software problems posted about it, its aesthetic features can't compare to an iPod and its only claim to fame is a radio and some song sharing feature. In the 3 years I have owned an iPod I have never once wanted a radio since there isn't any good music played on commercial radio stations anymore. On top of that I have never wanted to share a song with anyone. I burn CDs for friends as most haven't made the leap to an MP3 player yet. Now to buy music I would have to use MS currency and even worse I would have to use windows. Thanks but not thanks. I will stick with my iPod. Besides it usually takes MS a few versions to get anything right (or at least usable). I suspect that version 3.0 might be something to talk about but that is off in the future and who knows what the iPod world will look like by then.

tbazani
Nov 14, 2006, 04:01 PM
they can´t use WMP11 to sync with zune... that´s horrible! i can´t believe it. poor zune users...

and actually... i never wanted to TRADE songs. anyone felt this need before?

zune will consume itself.

APPLENEWBIE
Nov 14, 2006, 04:03 PM
It appears, checking out the Zune site, that you cannot access the ZuneMarketplace without having a zune. Is that right? Or have I missed something. If it is the case that you have to buy a zune to get to the marketplace... talk about buying a pig in a poke!:o

gloss
Nov 14, 2006, 04:04 PM
That CNN link made my day.

Tech junkies aside, THAT'S what the rest of the world sees.

fixyourthinking
Nov 14, 2006, 04:04 PM
An Office Depot manager said the following to me:

1) There's obviously something up with a product if there is a non working Demo on display

Then he asked me to spell "iPod"

I said "I-P-O-D"

He said, "now spell Zune"

I said, "Z-U-N-E"

He said, "No, it's spelled "I-P-O-S"

Everyone has been saying it's similar to the iPod - I think this spelling is the only similarity.

Mac Fly (film)
Nov 14, 2006, 04:09 PM
For a normally positive person, I felt very positive about voting this negitive, funny!

apfhex
Nov 14, 2006, 04:10 PM
It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.

Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features.
As has every other iPod clone. So far none of them have faired well. Only the smaller portion of techies want a slew of features. Everyone else just wants something they can start listening to music on quickly and easily (something you're not going to get out of the Zune software from what I've seen).

"Wireless functionality" is a non-feature here because you can ONLY use it for sharing music. Music sharing is a nifty feature for sure, although far to limited with it's 3 day 3 play scheme and only useful if everyone else also has a Zune. In future software updates they'll probably "unlock" the wireless functionality for useful things, like wireless synching. Now that would be good.

Bigger screen and FM radio are fine as well. But the Zune is also bigger and heavier than the iPod. Apple will have a bigger screen sooner rather than later. As for FM... that's great if you love to listen to the radio. I hate FM radio, there's almost nothing worth listening to — that's why I bring my iPod with me! I'm willing to bet most other people aren't going to touch the radio feature either.

It also has an online music store... so? It's not compatible with MS's own Plays For Sure, and it's not compatible with Apple's FairPlay (not MS's fault though, I know). Er, anyway my point was that of course it has an online store, that's not a "feature" it has above the iPod.

Well anyway, I think I'm done sounding like a huge flaming Apple apologist. That wasn't my intention, I just don't think the Zune has what it takes (though I do think it's the most serious iPod competitor to date).

p.s. I think their ad campaign is pretty boring. The ads tell you NOTHING if you don't already know what the Zune is. If I didn't know, I'd assume it was some sort of music oriented social networking site like Last.fm (which would be pretty lame, as Last.fm is pretty popular and the last [hah] thing we need is another site just like it, dividing the user base).

Rojo
Nov 14, 2006, 04:14 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

But... it's the same resolution, blown up to bigger size. Doesn't really look any better. What's the point?

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

But... it doesn't even use wireless in the way people WANT wireless in a digital player (i.e. syncing with your computer, wireless downloading of songs, etc.)

It has a radio. Built in.

But... is this feature really important? If it is to some people, then any iPod can have a radio reciever too. But for those that don't need it, it's useless. (And from most reports, the Zune radio has crappy reception anyway).

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

But... that feature has so many limitations. And lets not forget the fact that you need to be near another person with a Zune willing to share music for this to work. With the negative press this device is getting, I can't see sales being that high. And if no one else around you has a Zune... who are you supposed to share with?

It also has an online music store.

But... that makes it better...... how?

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell.

But... it's clearly not better. It has a couple of features the iPod doesn't have -- features that most people seem to find useless or not important. The iPod, however, has dozens more going for it: better design, smaller, lighter, better music store with more music, TV shows and movies, useable as a storage device, easier setup, support for Mac, more versions with different capacities/prices, the list goes on and on and on...

Sorry... but I can't see many reasons to vote a positive for the Zune. So it gets a negative from me....

alec
Nov 14, 2006, 04:16 PM
yay, more microsoft lies, including price deception (http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/zune-marketplaces-absurd-pricing-scheme/)!

konquererkarlos
Nov 14, 2006, 04:22 PM
as far as navigation, i was reading on the CNN review page that:

"For those who have long lists of albums or artists, the Zune aids in rapid scrolling by showing a large letter of the alphabet, letting you know, for example, that you've reached the R section."

and i was thinking to myself, "Hello!? did you download the last update for the iPod!?"

way to talk about things without knowing a damn thing about it.

wmmk
Nov 14, 2006, 04:22 PM
let's do some URL comparison:
http://www.zune.net:80/en-US/

http://www.apple.com/itunes/

now let's check out the favicons:
apple seems to have better marketing!;)

arcobb
Nov 14, 2006, 04:24 PM
So, am I understanding this right. The Zune won't even play mp3's? I that is the one beauty of the iPod ... mp3's are somewhat a universal standard that everything plays ... it doesn't mater where you bought it from.

Compile 'em all
Nov 14, 2006, 04:31 PM
Watch this comical video (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac) on CNN. :D

Killyp
Nov 14, 2006, 04:32 PM
I love engadget's first screenshot of the Zune software....

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_software_17.jpg

Killyp
Nov 14, 2006, 04:35 PM
Watch this comical video (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac) on CNN. :D

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Is that actually really really real?!?!?

If so... :D :D :D Hilarious!

iProd
Nov 14, 2006, 04:38 PM
I love engadget's first screenshot of the Zune software....

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_software_17.jpg

HAHAHA I DIDN'T EVEN SEE THAT BEFORE. That's hillarious!!!

yg17
Nov 14, 2006, 04:41 PM
It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.

Bigger screen: OK. the Zune wins

Wireless: Whoop de doo, I can share music between users. I can't use wireless for anything else like syncing, buying music, etc.

Radio: When you have 30 gigs of music, who needs radio? Listen to music a DJ chooses for me with 20 minutes of commercials each hour, or listen to the music I want with no commercials? If I wanted radio, I'd buy a $10 portable radio

Music sharing: Typically, when I'm listening to my iPod, I don't want to be bothered, and can't be bothered to seek out other iPod users and borrow their music

Online music store: Hmm, yeah, what's that thing called? Oh yeah, the iTunes Store.

balamw
Nov 14, 2006, 04:41 PM
Watch this comical video (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac) on CNN. :D
Perhaps Soledad O'Brien is just getting back at her former MSNBC Redmond overlords...

B

joeboy_45101
Nov 14, 2006, 04:42 PM
I saw one last week on display in a store. They are terribly ugly looking things. First off, they are about the size and thickness of the 1Gen iPod. Not sleek at all, huge and crunky is a better word. Then the colors aren't very attractive at all. The brown one isn't really brown, it's got a translucent frosted green plastic outer case with a brown underbody. Same with all the others: translucent navy blue outer case with black underbody, and translucent clear outer case with a white underbody. And lastly, whoever the hell designed the Zune marketplace is an idiot. You have to purchase "points" from Microsoft before you can buy anything; 79 points for a song, but it cost $0.99 to buy the 79 points. Whah??? :confused:


In my opinion, Microsoft is going to have to do better than this if it wants to unseat Apple as the portable music player king.

tech4all
Nov 14, 2006, 04:46 PM
yay, more microsoft lies, including price deception (http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/zune-marketplaces-absurd-pricing-scheme/)!

That is very confusing!

Typical Microsoft :rolleyes:

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 04:50 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.


It is the same price as an iPod. I wouldn't buy one as I am not in the market for a new MP3 player however, if I was, I would definitely consider getting one. I reckon M$ has made a hit here. Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. Just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it won't make consumers run away. Don't kid yourself, people don't care who makes it, unlike us here on the forum.

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod.

Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek

The iPod has been competing for its entire history with devices that had more features for the same price or *lower* (e.g. FM tuner, microphone, WMA compatibility, etc.). Why should the Zune be any different? Because it's Microsoft? Does Microsoft really have that much more clout than a Sony, Samsung, or Dell? All of those above behemoths failed to make a dent in the iPod.

So let's look at what the Zune brings to the table that is unique to the Zune (I'm not counting bigger screen or customizable background because, as I said, the iPod already competed with devices that had bigger screens, video playback before the iPod even had it, etc.):

1) Wireless capability: This is crippled for now. The song sharing is a joke. The only threat to the iPod is if the Zune software was upgraded with real wi-fi connectivity, so you could connect to the online Zune store directly from the device, or even surf to other web-based functionality (such as checking sports scores, news, weather, movie times, etc.). Maybe a future version of the Zune could even connect to internet radio or video streams.

2) Integrated Store/Device: This is really the biggest change in the Zune in that Microsoft now controls both the device and PC synching drivers and software. So synching should be more smooth now than when Microsoft had to rely on 3rd party hardware to synch with its Windows Media Player. But still, in terms of the Zune Marketplace, I think Microsoft blundered badly with its "credits" concept. That's just stupid. I mean, do you see the Amazon Store with the "Amazon credits"? What makes Microsoft think this is a good idea???? I predict Microsoft will scrap the whole "credits" system once it sees that Zune customers are buying songs at a much lower rate than iPod customers (currently the iTunes store has sold 22 songs for every iPod sold).

So in summary, I think the Zune *could* potentially be a threat in the future, but I don't think they'll even gain any traction with this release. Let's see next year when they release a Zune phone or something...

From Win to Mac
Nov 14, 2006, 04:50 PM
omfg on nbc they compared the zune to a 4th gen b&w ipod :eek:

Microsoft has a stake in NBC in the form of... MSNBC. So it's normal they're trying to screw people with a B&W iPod

combatcolin
Nov 14, 2006, 04:51 PM
Must admit i'm simply amazed by the negative reation to the Zune from fellow Macrumors posters, I wonder what part of the term "Healthy Competition" they seem utterly unable to grasp.

And if the iPod, (which 3 years down the line im still happy with mine) is such a better product then why worry?

The xBox and the 360 is a Microsoft product, and a lot of people have voted with there wallets to buy one.

Me? Its almost certain that i'll buy another iPod eventually and I will upgrade to a 360 when Halo 3 / Sega Rally 3 comes out - If Microsoft are selling something worth buying then i'll certainly consider it.

cyberhusky
Nov 14, 2006, 04:53 PM
For all those who think Zune is great read this:

http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/zune-marketplaces-absurd-pricing-scheme/

:eek:

bravedeer
Nov 14, 2006, 04:56 PM
Folks are missing is that the Zune does not "share" music. If you are sitting at a coffee shop you can't download someone else's music, it's they who decide what they want to send you so basically you go up to them and ask can I have that song? :)

Also, I see a lot of stuff that people are pointing out the Zune has and the iPod doesn't, but how about the other way around?

Gapless playback, Audible Content, Podcasts, Contacts, Games, etc... sheesh!

lorien
Nov 14, 2006, 04:58 PM
I also notice that this (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=78.0) thread on the zunescene site shows that 56% of respondents so far actually preferred the infamous brown color.

Hmmmm.


It's simple psychology: if they chose the white one they'd be suggesting their affinity for the iPods look and inadvertently admitting to the buggery ugliness of the thing they just max'ed out their credit cards for. :rolleyes:

theblotted
Nov 14, 2006, 05:03 PM
yes, as soon as Apple comes out with the rumored Full-Screen Video iPod with Wi-Fi...

game over.

Dagless
Nov 14, 2006, 05:06 PM
It's a laugh a day with Microsoft! Now, lets see how the Zune fairs against it's true rival - Creative. This should be fun.

Compile 'em all
Nov 14, 2006, 05:06 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Is that actually really really real?!?!?

If so... :D :D :D Hilarious!

Yes, it is real. This video has practically killed the Zune :cool:.

Ninja_Turtle
Nov 14, 2006, 05:09 PM
zune sux0rs
another try to get rid of the ipod
but will that ever work?

only apple can outdo themselves to create a better ipod
only then will the current ipod be replaced, by yet another apple branded mp3 player.

and crashing in the installation window?
hahaha pitiful.

MegaSignal
Nov 14, 2006, 05:10 PM
What bothered me about the Zune was that what "looks" like a scroll wheel, is not. If you didn't put a scroll wheel on the thing in the first place, then why make it look like one to me?

Why not be honest and simply put four buttons on the thing in the first place? Why hide the fact that it won't scroll?

In all honesty, I was hoping for a better competitor, as it would only mean an even better product from Apple.

And what's with using the most lampooned colour that there is - brown?

(...shakes head, thinks of Les Claypool and the "Brown" album...hmmm...)

gloss
Nov 14, 2006, 05:13 PM
In all honesty, I was hoping for a better competitor, as it would only mean an even better product from Apple.

I'm with you there, man.

reubs
Nov 14, 2006, 05:14 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn

Here is a little news piece from CNN's American Morning. The News people seem to gets whats wrong with the Zune.

Those folks ripped it. I wonder if she was placed witha shuffle?

xUKHCx
Nov 14, 2006, 05:17 PM
Watch this comical video (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac) on CNN. :D

Can some one clear something up for me (i'm english so dont get this channel) I always thought CNN was a news channel. Is this true? Is it indicative of many American news channels? Is this how CNN actually report? Do many people watch it? (If the answer is yes to a couple of questions above i can see how W got in)

That is shocking reporting, but very funny as well.

xUKHCx
Nov 14, 2006, 05:23 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_software_06.jpg
Ok, seriously... that install pic looks like a 3rd grade took a picture and photoshoped the words on top of it. VERY lame!

Also to me that guy looks like a MC rather than a DJ, cos if he were a DJ he would have headphones on, and wount be holding the mic like that. Shows how much microsoft knows about music.

briantology
Nov 14, 2006, 05:23 PM
Well I don't run windows, so I don't see any reason for getting one :)

count chocula
Nov 14, 2006, 05:23 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_unbox_08.jpg
am i the only person that thinks this is funny?

Wel-
come

:D

carve
Nov 14, 2006, 05:25 PM
zune wil not survive, let the ipod conquer!

gloss
Nov 14, 2006, 05:29 PM
Can some one clear something up for me (i'm english so dont get this channel) I always thought CNN was a news channel. Is this true? Is it indicative of many American news channels? Is this how CNN actually report? Do many people watch it? (If the answer is yes to a couple of questions above i can see how W got in)

That is shocking reporting, but very funny as well.

Morning shows and the occasional Financial show have more casual atmospheres. So, no, that's not how they'd report, say, the Iraq War. It really depends on the content, I guess.

milo
Nov 14, 2006, 05:29 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.

As far as I'm concerned, none of those outweigh the negatives: no scroll wheel, no video/movie store, poor implementation of the above, etc.

And the biggest one is simply that there's no Zune to compete with shuffle, or Nano, the biggest selling iPod.

donlphi
Nov 14, 2006, 05:29 PM
This annoys me.



Converting real cash to points, it makes consumers think they are paying 79 cents for a track :mad:

Not to mention idiots claiming that the store is cheaper than iTunes.

This is how casinos get you to waste your hard earned money too. They put "fake" money in your hands... take away the word money completely and TADA!!! Like magic, you feel like you have spent less money.

thevessels
Nov 14, 2006, 05:32 PM
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/

Right next to the Fortune article that was linked in this forum, there's a CNN video link with a news crew and NY Times analyst talking about the new Zune. They don't say anything we don't already know, but the video turns into an iPod Shuffle advertisement when one of the news anchors decides to share her experience. :rolleyes:

haha , the best was the reviewers "*sigh, no comment" at the end .

RichP
Nov 14, 2006, 05:33 PM
Watch this comical video (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn&wm=native_mac) on CNN. :D

"why dont they get some decent design people to make it look cool"

Ives must have a smug look on his face these days...

count chocula
Nov 14, 2006, 05:33 PM
I think this statement was misleading:
Zune will only play protected content from Microsoft's new Zune Marketplace.

As far as i know, it plays mp3's and all other things you would expect. It will not, however, play music and videos downloaded from the itunes store, msn music store, etc.

So, am I understanding this right. The Zune won't even play mp3's? I that is the one beauty of the iPod ... mp3's are somewhat a universal standard that everything plays ... it doesn't mater where you bought it from.

donlphi
Nov 14, 2006, 05:33 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/11/zune_unbox_08.jpg
am i the only person that thinks this is funny?

Wel-
come

:D

It is pretty funny... I think the whole "HIPSTER" grandma feel is going to sell them a lot of zunes.... I'm not sure to who, probably just a bunch of anti-MACies.

Goodluck M$!!! Release your inner stupidity. Get ZUNED!!!

Warbrain
Nov 14, 2006, 05:33 PM
Those folks ripped it. I wonder if she was placed witha shuffle?

I doubt it. Soledad O'Brien is very open about giving her opinions on TV.

zelet
Nov 14, 2006, 05:35 PM
I doubt it. Soledad O'Brien is very open about giving her opinions on TV.

Well, that and selling her journalistic integrity for a $70 piece of kit? Pretty unlikely. Now if she whipped out a cluster of MacPros... maybe. :)

Whistleway
Nov 14, 2006, 05:39 PM
People buy iPod because it is the cool in-hip thing. If you have a 12yr old, you would know what I am talking. Not because of wireless or anything. Zune will appeal to the crazy microsoftie fans but no one else unless it becomes a "cultural" thingy.

joepunk
Nov 14, 2006, 05:43 PM
It’s on the cover of today's PI… (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=107078)

John Richards of Seattle radio station KEXP sends a song from his Zune to one held by Microsoft chairman Bill Gates by using the wireless sharing feature in the new music device at Westlake Park in Seattle on Monday.

© original posting by The Stranger Blog

What a gread demonstration of it's 2 foot distance wireless capabilities.
And how can Gates even hear the song w/o earbuds.

Analog Kid
Nov 14, 2006, 05:43 PM
Wow. Remind me again why they're bothering? It never ceases to astound me how a company with that kind of R&D resource can waste it so prodigiously...

Detlev_73
Nov 14, 2006, 05:45 PM
"Zune will only play protected content from Microsoft's new Zune Marketplace. Curiously, Zune is not compatible with previous Windows Media Player based music stores (such as Napster). "

This implies that if you have music on your computer that was NOT downloaded from M$'s Zune Marketplace, you can't play it. So, what's the point? I hope that there is a VERY liberal return policy on these things, or M$ will get A LOT of bad publicity. Who the heck would buy the Zune if they couldn't play music that they already had NOT bought through the Marketplace?!

I'd like to see the results of a reliable study that investigates what percentage of the total music out there on iPods and other MP3 players is actually paid for. Anyone know of a link?

archurban
Nov 14, 2006, 05:48 PM
well, I went to BestBuy today to take a look at zune. UI is cool. no doubt. control is easier than I thought. setting mode is relatively easy that doesn't seem like MS. but you have click so many times when you scroll down to bunch of music. video is great, but resolution is not great at all. you can change three different screen wall paper mode, and add more pics. video, pics are shown as landscape mode widely. at least it's better than ipod. there are already bunch of accessories to be sold. the size is really bigger than I thought. for connection with software? I don't know. I was shopping for 30 minutes. during that time, only one guy was using it. what a pathetic. people, who were shopping, weren't care it at all. they all played PS3, Xbox 360. this is doom.

Detlev_73
Nov 14, 2006, 05:48 PM
I think this statement was misleading:


As far as i know, it plays mp3's and all other things you would expect. It will not, however, play music and videos downloaded from the itunes store, msn music store, etc.

:rolleyes:

age234
Nov 14, 2006, 05:49 PM
I love from that CNN clip "Why don't they get some decent design people?" "No comment."

:D :D :D

MacDaddyT
Nov 14, 2006, 05:52 PM
As you all know by now, WIFI is the big feature for Zune. Not only are you limited to 3x playback within three days, you have to GUESS which song you can share if you've bought it from the Zune store!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TPJ7GQOuzk

:confused:

applecrag
Nov 14, 2006, 05:59 PM
I'm glad that Apple is finally getting some decent competition in the mp3 business. While the Zune is not likely to succeed, there is potential for it to take some marketshare. Hopefully this will make Apple be a little more innovative. I'm certain that whatever iPod is released, it will knock all of our socks off and we will all say, "Apple has done it again." Competition is good.

aussie_geek
Nov 14, 2006, 06:01 PM
Yes BUT YOU KNOW that very soon...probably in January at MACWORLD or soon therafter, THERE will be the widescreen iPod, possibly with wireless that means something... For me it is still only about the music and my 80GB iPods filled with 19,450 songs works great. So when will Apple release a 100GB VERSION??:p

Yes, I am fully aware of the new iPod that may be released. Now that will be a show stopper. It's just a pity that Apple doesn't have one up for xmas.

aussie_geek

Jesus
Nov 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
I'm glad that Apple is finally getting some decent competition in the mp3 business. While the Zune is not likely to succeed, there is potential for it to take some marketshare. Hopefully this will make Apple be a little more innovative. I'm certain that whatever iPod is released, it will knock all of our socks off and we will all say, "Apple has done it again." Competition is good.

In the mean time we will all say "Microsoft has done it again!" :rolleyes:

Zwhaler
Nov 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
omfg on nbc they compared the zune to a 4th gen b&w ipod :eek:

Yeah I saw that too! I was like what the hell thats like comparing a beat up old G3 iMac to a nice new Alienware and calling it better. What do you bet microsoft paid them to use the older iPod.

iJawn108
Nov 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
Oh look it comes with a zune sticker and kind of interesting packaging. :rolleyes:

SiliconAddict
Nov 14, 2006, 06:07 PM
why do I NOT believe that it will only play protected content. :rolleyes:

hulugu
Nov 14, 2006, 06:08 PM
It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

But, the screen resolution's the same, so just bigger pixels. On the surface this looks good, but really it's meaningless.

It has wireless functionality. Built in. Watch the CNN video and see how people respond to this, I think it could be cool, but between the shear geekiness of it, and the DRM snafus, I think this fails as a killer app. Not to mention, unless you're around another Zune user it's worthless.

It has a radio. Built in. And, so does a zillion other players that are currently getting their collective *sses handed to them by iPods sans this feature. I don't buy it.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in. See above. It's buggy, awkward, and takes time. Steve Jobs' comment about it was succint: "It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable."

It also has an online music store. So does Real and Sony. See my earlier comment about FM radios.

Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod. Features can't just be a list, they have to matter to the user, and frankly the Zune's killer difference is too geeky and buggy to sell them to more than the technophiles. The Zune, however, doesn't have all the accessories the iPod does, which includes the hundreds of cases, connectors, add-ons, software, etc. Think of the whole Nike+ thing or the recent announcement that several airlines will add iPod-functionality to their entertainment systems. Not to mention the car integrations, once you've installed an Alpine system in your Mini, are you really going to buy a Zune over a new iPod?
Furthermore, the goofy way that Microsoft charges for their songs, using points rather than cash, is confusing and a huge scam. The minute users figure out that you have to give Microsoft $5.00 for the first song, they're going to be unhappy.



Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek

And quickly returned on December 26 for iPods. ;)

I'm going to go bother a bunch of people in the cafe' I'm sitting in, if more than 10% of them know what a Zune even is, I'll retract my statement.

Now, Apple should pay attention to the Zune and react accordingly, the iPod should remain a difficult and moving target, adding on new content and new useful features.

SiliconAddict
Nov 14, 2006, 06:17 PM
As you all know by now, WIFI is the big feature for Zune. Not only are you limited to 3x playback within three days, you have to GUESS which song you can share if you've bought it from the Zune store!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TPJ7GQOuzk

:confused:

Wow. :eek:

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 06:18 PM
I doubt it. Soledad O'Brien is very open about giving her opinions on TV.

Remember she used to be the HOST of TECH TV out of San Francisco when...drum roll..Microsoft banked it..

jupiter
Nov 14, 2006, 06:19 PM
I would love apple to come up with an iPod Ad campaign similar to to the Get a Mac ones. Imagine this:

Zune (in a brown suit of course): Hello I'm a Zune

iPod: and I'm an iPod

iPod: so whats that you're playing with?

Zune (throwing up a ball and catching it again): oh this is a new song I just downloaded from the zune marketplace, it's really popular at the moment.

iPod: Congratulations, I can see you're enjoying it.

Zune: Oh it's not just me watch this:

(2nd Zune walks onto the screen)

Zune: Excuse me, mind if I zune this song to you?

Zune 2: Yeah sure, go ahead.

(Zune throws ball to Zune 2 who then starts throwing it up and catching it.)

iPod: Wow thats really cool.

Zune: I know, we're great buddies.

(Zune 2 throws up the ball for the third time, but it does not come back down again.)

iPod: Wait, what happened?

Zune: Oh he's only allowed it for a little while.

(Zune 2 walks off with a sad expression)

iPod: So what happend to the song?

(ball falls and hits Zune on the head)

iPod: Oh, right.

;)

iWinnipegger
Nov 14, 2006, 06:22 PM
Haha

Zune will suck bad..Bill Gates is a retard... No charisma or style, just a computer nerd making crappy software...
..Zune will fail,,just like Windows and the Xbox, i'm so happy microsof isn't a part of my life haha,,

I use a MacBook; eMacs at school,
I use my iPod video
& i use my Gamecube and DS, can't wait for Wii, Wii will totally kill Xbox,,Graphics my ass, people just want fun..

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 06:23 PM
I'm glad that Apple is finally getting some decent competition in the mp3 business. While the Zune is not likely to succeed, there is potential for it to take some marketshare. Hopefully this will make Apple be a little more innovative. I'm certain that whatever iPod is released, it will knock all of our socks off and we will all say, "Apple has done it again." Competition is good.

Apple "a little more innovated?" Crap they always are. Everyone who has been wishing and waiting for wide screens wi fi and other new bells an whistles should remember that WHEN Apple has these type of things perfected, they release them and kick ass. They have not yet released a WIFI version because it is simply not ready so their last updates that seemed to dissapoint some, were simply great improvements and price drops. You just know rthat their wide screen will be so much cooler than ZUNI.

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 06:25 PM
"What colors should the Zune come in Mr. Gates?"

"I'm thinking we'll use Apple's black and white- and then since I can't think of another color myself, why don't we just mix the two together and use that as the third color"

"Alright sir, I'll call the Zune specialists and let them know"

"Good, thanks Larry, here's a Zune Buck"

"Thanks Sir, I can buy one and a quarter songs now!"

aussie_geek
Nov 14, 2006, 06:25 PM
As far as I'm concerned, none of those outweigh the negatives: no scroll wheel, no video/movie store, poor implementation of the above, etc.

And the biggest one is simply that there's no Zune to compete with shuffle, or Nano, the biggest selling iPod.

As for the scroll wheel - who cares. Fair enough, it is a great interface - tough to beat but I am sure the one M$ used will do the job.

As for video / movie store. It plays movies. Who cares where you get them - as long as they work... ;)

As for the Zune competing for the shuffle / nano position, M$ would be mad to go for these model's.

The only way Zune will sell at the moment is the fact at first glance it has more stuff than the current model iPod.

Just imagine in a department store:

Customer " I want to buy an MP3 player"
Rep " Yes - here we have an iPod and here we have a new product from MICROSOFT called the Zune"
Customer " what's the difference between them?"
Rep " The zune has everything the iPod has etc but it has more stuff too like........"
Customer " How much is it?"
Rep " Same as an iPod".

Fair enough the customer in this scenario is ill informed about MP3 players .Most customers may not be as naive as this example but how many of the millions of people would go online and research their MP3 player before purchase.

I am not defending Microsoft or endorsing Apple products here. I am just trying to portray an unbiased opinion. Simple really:

Zune is more stuff than iPod for same price =sales.

It's a known fact that people think that more features = better. Although we know better, most people are not as tech savvy as the ones reading the posts in this forum. These are the ones (ie most consumers) that will buy one.


aussie_geek

iWinnipegger
Nov 14, 2006, 06:26 PM
I would love apple to come up with an iPod Ad campaign similar to to the Get a Mac ones. Imagine this:

Zune (in a brown suit of course): Hello I'm a Zune

iPod: and I'm an iPod

iPod: so whats that you're playing with?

Zune (throwing up a ball and catching it again): oh this is a new song I just downloaded from the zune marketplace, it's really popular at the moment.

iPod: Congratulations, I can see you're enjoying it.

Zune: Oh it's not just me watch this:

(2nd Zune walks onto the screen)

Zune: Excuse me, mind if I zune this song to you?

Zune 2: Yeah sure, go ahead.

(Zune throws ball to Zune 2 who then starts throwing it up and catching it.)

iPod: Wow thats really cool.

Zune: I know, we're great buddies.

(Zune 2 throws up the ball for the third time, but it does not come back down again.)

iPod: Wait, what happened?

Zune: Oh he's only allowed it for a little while.

(Zune 2 walks off with a sad expression)

iPod: So what happend to the song?

(ball falls and hits Zune on the head)

iPod: Oh, right.

;)

LOVE IT!!

or something with the Zune guy holding his new cds, claiming he bought them at the store,,

then the iPod guy is holding dvds,

the iPod guy asks if he bought any DVDS,

then he's like, the store i went to didn't carry those,,,

iPod guy says, my store does, u should stop by,

then the Zune, says something like, sorry i can't, then he's like, i'm going back to buy more cds,,,

patrick0brien
Nov 14, 2006, 06:31 PM
Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.

-aussie_geek

Be careful not to equate feature set with value.


It's a known fact that people think that more features = better.


This is the school of Microsoft, and is patently false. When one trend matches another for a while, there is a propensity to tie the two as related. Just because a conclusion can be drawn from coincidence, don't take it to the bank.

Please be aware, I'm not attacking, and not as a Mac-head. This is just a historical pattern.

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 06:33 PM
"What colors should the Zune come in Mr. Gates?"

"I'm thinking we'll use Apple's black and white- and then since I can't think of another color myself, why don't we just mix the two together and use that as the third color"

"Alright sir, I'll call the Zune specialists and let them know"

"Good, thanks Larry, here's a Zune Buck"

"Thanks Sir, I can buy one and a quarter songs now!"

Sorry but a mix of black and white make grey! :D

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 06:33 PM
As for the scroll wheel - who cares. Fair enough, it is a great interface - tough to beat but I am sure the one M$ used will do the job.

As for video / movie store. It plays movies. Who cares where you get them - as long as they work... ;)

As for the Zune competing for the shuffle / nano position, M$ would be mad to go for these model's.

The only way Zune will sell at the moment is the fact at first glance it has more stuff than the current model iPod.

Just imagine in a department store:

Customer " I want to buy an MP3 player"
Rep " Yes - here we have an iPod and here we have a new product from MICROSOFT called the Zune"
Customer " what's the difference between them?"
Rep " The zune has everything the iPod has etc but it has more stuff too like........"
Customer " How much is it?"
Rep " Same as an iPod".

Fair enough the customer in this scenario is ill informed about MP3 players .Most customers may not be as naive as this example but how many of the millions of people would go online and research their MP3 player before purchase.

I am not defending Microsoft or endorsing Apple products here. I am just trying to portray an unbiased opinion. Simple really:

Zune is more stuff than iPod for same price =sales.

It's a known fact that people think that more features = better. Although we know better, most people are not as tech savvy as the ones reading the posts in this forum. These are the ones (ie most consumers) that will buy one.


aussie_geek

If you're referring to naive customers, those are the ones who walk up to the sales person and say "ipod please" asking only what colors it comes in. As far as Techno geeks go, a lot of them don't have iPod, it's APPLE geeks that do. No offense, but naive consumers aren't going to give a crap about wifi, and when they see the Zune is larger and uglier- I think we both know what they chose. May I suggest you try the cNet forms if you'd like to continue to promote this blatantly pro-microsoft point of view?

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 06:33 PM
Sorry but a mix of black and white make grey! :D

That's what microsoft paid you to think ;)

McDave
Nov 14, 2006, 06:34 PM
This says it all...


Just some things to consider before rating this thread with a negative vote.

It has a bigger screen than the iPod.

It has wireless functionality. Built in.

It has a radio. Built in.

It allows for music sharing between users. Built in.

It also has an online music store.


It is the same price as an iPod. I wouldn't buy one as I am not in the market for a new MP3 player however, if I was, I would definitely consider getting one. I reckon M$ has made a hit here. Although it is a clone of the iPod, it has more features. This will appeal to users. Just because it doesn't have an Apple logo on it won't make consumers run away. Don't kid yourself, people don't care who makes it, unlike us here on the forum.

As long as it works and you can do more stuff than the piece of technology you have now it is better. Therefore it will sell. At the moment the Zune is better value for money than the similarly priced iPod.

Many Zune's will find themselves inside of xmas stockings this season - in place of iPods.

aussie_geek

Spoken like a man who's making his decisions from a spec sheet! The features are there, the boxes are ticked but HOW they work appears to be completely unuseful because it take a DESIGNER to answer the HOW question, not a geek.

The big question will be; is anyone still fooled by specifications alone? Will people clue in to the fact that Zune is to Wintel as iPod is to Mac. This could be Microsoft's biggest mistake.

aussie_geek
Nov 14, 2006, 06:37 PM
[QUOTE=aussie_geek;3054755]It has a bigger screen than the iPod.[/aussie_geek]

But, the screen resolution's the same, so just bigger pixels. On the surface this looks good, but really it's meaningless.

Watch the CNN video and see how people respond to this, I think it could be cool, but between the shear geekiness of it, and the DRM snafus, I think this fails as a killer app. Not to mention, unless you're around another Zune user it's worthless.

And, so does a zillion other players that are currently getting their collective *sses handed to them by iPods sans this feature. I don't buy it.

See above. It's buggy, awkward, and takes time. Steve Jobs' comment about it was succint: "It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable."

So does Real and Sony. See my earlier comment about FM radios.

Features can't just be a list, they have to matter to the user, and frankly the Zune's killer difference is too geeky and buggy to sell them to more than the technophiles. The Zune, however, doesn't have all the accessories the iPod does, which includes the hundreds of cases, connectors, add-ons, software, etc. Think of the whole Nike+ thing or the recent announcement that several airlines will add iPod-functionality to their entertainment systems. Not to mention the car integrations, once you've installed an Alpine system in your Mini, are you really going to buy a Zune over a new iPod?
Furthermore, the goofy way that Microsoft charges for their songs, using points rather than cash, is confusing and a huge scam. The minute users figure out that you have to give Microsoft $5.00 for the first song, they're going to be unhappy.





And quickly returned on December 26 for iPods. ;)

I'm going to go bother a bunch of people in the cafe' I'm sitting in, if more than 10% of them know what a Zune even is, I'll retract my statement.

Now, Apple should pay attention to the Zune and react accordingly, the iPod should remain a difficult and moving target, adding on new content and new useful features.

You are missing the whole point mate, at first glance - ie what will be on the posters in the stores for xmas it has more "stuff" than the iPod. This is all that is needed to get a mainstream, non tech savvy forum poster google researching news site reader to buy one. ;)


aussie_geek

Macmaniac
Nov 14, 2006, 06:37 PM
As you all know by now, WIFI is the big feature for Zune. Not only are you limited to 3x playback within three days, you have to GUESS which song you can share if you've bought it from the Zune store!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TPJ7GQOuzk

:confused:

What an tool!

I do hope this product fails, but I hope this kicks Apple to make them release a newer redisigned iPod.

I love the CNN piece, the anchors pwnt the Zune.

iMeowbot
Nov 14, 2006, 06:39 PM
"Zune will only play protected content from Microsoft's new Zune Marketplace. Curiously, Zune is not compatible with previous Windows Media Player based music stores (such as Napster). "
You can ignore that quote. It's BS, in fact it's exactly the same BS that gets tossed around all the time about the iPod line. It can play unprotected AAC and MP3.

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 06:42 PM
But, the screen resolution's the same, so just bigger pixels. On the surface this looks good, but really it's meaningless.


The res is not the same, it's less: 320x240

Digitaljim
Nov 14, 2006, 06:42 PM
For me, there's two major flaws in the Zune as a product.

Firstly, it really is too damn big -- my girlfriend's old 20GB 3G looks sleek by comparison; my 30GB 5G must be 40% smaller still in volume terms.

Secondly, it's just not going to get enough market penetration with only a 30GB model available. If a "Nano Zune" were released, would it carry the wif-fi feature? I just can't see this wi-fi Zune-to-Zune sharing coming commonplace, especially if it's subject to such silly rules as 3 days/plays.

But, hey, I for one quite like the brown model ;)

ipedro
Nov 14, 2006, 06:43 PM
Miles O'Brien about Microsoft: Why can't they get some decent designers? LOL!

They call it bulky and ugly and Soledad O'Brien shows off her tiny Shuffle..

Watch CNN American Morning review of ZUNE (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn)

Mal
Nov 14, 2006, 06:43 PM
You can ignore that quote. It's BS, in fact it's exactly the same BS that gets tossed around all the time about the iPod line. It can play unprotected AAC and MP3.

Hmm, that's funny, cause I'm pretty sure that quote wasn't referring to unprotected AAC or MP3. See, the Zune won't play any WMA files that use the "PlaysForSure" [sic] DRM, thus the quote is exactly right. If you bought music from any other online store (except the rare ones that sell unprotected music), then you can't use it on the Zune.

jW

TheBusDriver
Nov 14, 2006, 06:44 PM
haha i just went to Best Buy and this guy was asking questions about the Zune and the girl that worked there was like…ummm…errr i don't know so i told him all the things that where bad about it and the three "good things" and told him not to buy the big brick turd of an MP3 player and buy an iPod

Chundles
Nov 14, 2006, 06:45 PM
The res is not the same, it's less: 320x240

Both the iPod and the Zune have 320x240 screens.

61132
Nov 14, 2006, 06:46 PM
Funny actual zune error message:

link (http://faruk.newsvine.com/_news/2006/11/12/438632-zune-install-screen-raises-eyebrows)


Well, what do you expect from microsoft :), lol

Notice that is appears to be two girls together at the top, seinfeld quote "not that theres anything wrong with that" :)

I don't see how many other MP3 players will survive easily, now major airlines are putting ipod docks on their new planes so passengers can watch movies on the screens and listen to their own music. My first thought: "mommy, why is that guy watching naked people on their screen?"

lol, well, I guess we havent had too many problems with laptops, so an ipod shouldnt be different I guess

McDave
Nov 14, 2006, 06:46 PM
[QUOTE=hulugu;3055363]

You are missing the whole point mate, at first glance - ie what will be on the posters in the stores for xmas it has more "stuff" than the iPod. This is all that is needed to get a mainstream, non tech savvy forum poster google researching news site reader to buy one. ;)


aussie_geek

Naive users buy iPods due to 'coolness' not because of the features otherwise Zen & Archos would rule - they don't.

McD

ipedro
Nov 14, 2006, 06:50 PM
Yeah I saw that too! I was like what the hell thats like comparing a beat up old G3 iMac to a nice new Alienware and calling it better. What do you bet microsoft paid them to use the older iPod.

Microsoft and NBC work together, hence the MSNBC (Microsoft + NBC) TV network.

patrick0brien
Nov 14, 2006, 06:50 PM
[QUOTE=aussie_geek;3055461]

Naive users buy iPods due to 'coolness' not because of the features otherwise Zen & Archos would rule - they don't.

McD

-McDave

There's also the "It wouldn't be on the menu if somebody (in this case everybody) didn't think it was good.

In the case of the iPod, not only is it 'cool', but it's actually a device that is very good at its job. Which is how it became cool in the first place.

840quadra
Nov 14, 2006, 06:53 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Microsoft will use the points system to boast how much money they have made with the Zune Store ?

Since you can only buy songs by paying a minimum of $5 (to get the 79 points you need to buy a song as) opposed to .99¢ for one song, they will get allot of cheated earnings just by those who wanted to buy one or two songs!

The other thing about their DRM (which has been touched upon by many posters) that chaps my hide, is the fact that you have to use a friggen calculator or slide rule to multiply, divide, and subtract to figure out how to get every penny's worth out of your money with their store. Why is Microshaft resulting in parlor (or carnival) tricks to get more money out of people?

MegaSignal
Nov 14, 2006, 06:55 PM
haha i just went to Best Buy and this guy was asking questions about the Zune and the girl that worked there was like…ummm…errr i don't know so i told him all the things that where bad about it and the three "good things" and told him not to buy the big brick turd of an MP3 player and buy an iPod

So - did he end up purchasing the iPod?

McDave
Nov 14, 2006, 06:56 PM
Miles O'Brien about Microsoft: Why can't they get some decent designers? LOL!

They call it bulky and ugly and Soledad O'Brien shows off her tiny Shuffle..

Watch CNN American Morning review of ZUNE (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn)

Against their philisophy.

Apple employ real designers to drive their products with a concept/design first, technology second approach. Microsoft have a 'throw enough ***** at a problem and some of it will stick' - not efficient or inspired & wastes a lot time but at a Windows-license per throw they ain't complaining.;)

McD

donlphi
Nov 14, 2006, 06:58 PM
Most stores have a 30 day return policy. I predict there will be a new iPOD available within 30 days, which could inspire a a price drop for the 30 GB iPOD. 120 GB Full Video iPOD, 80GB Video, 40GB Video, Nano, and Shuffle. The full line will finally be joined together like a beautiful Voltron episode.:D

Don't expect to see an immediate response (or retaliation as somebody called it) from Apple, because Apple doesn't need to "respond to ZUNE". They invented slick mp3 players. There is a reason Apple doesn't already have certain features on their device.

1. Who on earth has 30GB of music on their mp3 player and still needs to listen to the radio? I would think MOST of your favorite songs would be on there. I would rather have a Shuffle or Nano with an FM radio.

2. Crippled Wi-Fi Music sharing... it's not even capable of sharing other files. Not to mention, who are you going to share with when everybody else has an iPOD? I don't like the idea of somebody being able to access my music wirelessly anyway.

3. Beautiful BIG SCREEN... it's coming, but remember what steve said originally, "it's about the music" (right now).

Remember when CREATIVE copied everything the iPOD had (okay, some things belonged to CREATIVE), but it looked identical to the iPOD in everyway (minus the click wheel and thin body). It had the same size screen, same shape, even had "MORE" like an FM radio. That really sold well. Same garbage here. Nobody is going to be bragging about sharing songs. It's a gimmick...

I'm tired of typing, but I could go on for HOURS (as most of you could)

MAcNIAC
Nov 14, 2006, 06:58 PM
what the hell were they thinking?????:confused:
that is the ugliest thing i have EVER seen
why not red, or blue or green ?

Brown is NOT the new black.:D

McDave
Nov 14, 2006, 07:04 PM
[QUOTE=McDave;3055503]

-McDave

There's also the "It wouldn't be on the menu if somebody (in this case everybody) didn't think it was good.

In the case of the iPod, not only is it 'cool', but it's actually a device that is very good at its job. Which is how it became cool in the first place.

I love my iPods because they work well & feel good to use, a triumph of design-led technology in a world where it's lacking. I'm just saying, I think the giggling girls I saw buying them in a local store at the weekend probably didn't share my perspective (buying right product for the wrong reasons) - all good though

McD

evilgEEk
Nov 14, 2006, 07:05 PM
So the Zune is released today, and Microsoft stock is down $0.03 at market closing? That's whack.

I loved the CNN video too, priceless. :D

aussie_geek
Nov 14, 2006, 07:08 PM
If you're referring to naive customers, those are the ones who walk up to the sales person and say "ipod please" asking only what colors it comes in. As far as Techno geeks go, a lot of them don't have iPod, it's APPLE geeks that do. No offense, but naive consumers aren't going to give a crap about wifi, and when they see the Zune is larger and uglier- I think we both know what they chose. May I suggest you try the cNet forms if you'd like to continue to promote this blatantly pro-microsoft point of view?

Yes - I am referring to the naive customers that come up to the counter to get an mp3 player. The first thing they will notice is the big screen. And secondly it will have more "stuff " than the iPod.

Although they have no idea what it is, just the fact that you get more for the same money means they will sell.

The simple notions of " Bigger is better" and " more for your money" will unfortunately come into effect when considering to buy this product.

aussie_geek

ps - and for the Pro- Microsoft point of view comment you have made. I am exactly the opposite. I have been a Mac - AND ONLY MAC user for over 20 years. Look at my sig mate ... :rolleyes:

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=hulugu;3055363]

You are missing the whole point mate, at first glance - ie what will be on the posters in the stores for xmas it has more "stuff" than the iPod. This is all that is needed to get a mainstream, non tech savvy forum poster google researching news site reader to buy one. ;)


aussie_geek

I made this for you :D

pianodude123
Nov 14, 2006, 07:10 PM
disagreed. The ipod has made a name for itself. The ipod is the player that everyone wants, its stylish, and if theyre already using iTunes, theyre not gonna wanna switch to the bloated WMP11 software which is still beta.

840quadra
Nov 14, 2006, 07:13 PM
Yeah the features on the Zune... Not so new!

If I wanted something with a wide screen, wireless capability, photos, songs, music, PDF viewer , etc.. I am going to buy the Archos, as it does all of this better than the iPod or Zune can currently.


However, I don't need or want any of these extra features, and like iTunes, so I plan on sticking with the easy to use iPod line of products!

cecildk9999
Nov 14, 2006, 07:13 PM
The xBox and the 360 is a Microsoft product, and a lot of people have voted with there wallets to buy one.

Me? Its almost certain that i'll buy another iPod eventually and I will upgrade to a 360 when Halo 3 / Sega Rally 3 comes out - If Microsoft are selling something worth buying then i'll certainly consider it.

This is the sort of thing I've been thinking about while reading over these posts; the XBox has managed to take a respectable market share in the console world, despite being a pretty bulky and unattractive piece of equipment. Microsoft was really aggressive in enticing game makers over to their system, and offering a few exclusive hit titles to boot. I'm guessing that the buckets of money they'll try and throw at music labels and (potentially) accessory makers will help make the Zune more appealing in time. The real question is whether this strategy will work in the same way it did for the console world; my gut says no, but I'm not sure on the specifics of why just yet. :confused:

macenforcer
Nov 14, 2006, 07:14 PM
Ok, got a Black Zune today. Here is my story.


Went to Target to pick up diapers and milk and as I always hit the toy and electronics section (kids) I noticed the Zune there. It was $249 with a $25 gift card to target for free so basically $225. I sat there debating whether or not to buy, not because I need one but becuase I love new gadgets and I wanted to see if it had any features the ipod doesn't besides the radio.

I spoke with the folks there about it for a while. They were convinced it had a 16:9 ascpect ration screen but I knew better. Its just a standard screen tilted 90 deg. They offered me a no hassle return in 14 days and they ended up giving me an extra 10% off and the gift card so I took a bite. Total was $199 plus tax. Not bad.

So I get it in the car and plug it in. I have a Chevy Tahoe with DVD system and navigation that has an video and audio input in the dash. Nice setup and works great with my video ipod. Anyways I plug it in and select a video that came with it and it says it won't play output video, needs firmware update. LAME.

Ok, I hook it up to my pc and update the firmware and slap some songs on it. Then I take it out to my tahoe and plug it in. Now here is a pleasant surprise. The menu navigation shows up on the lcd screen in the tahoe. The ipod does NOT do this. This is great. Love this feature. Now I can navigate to the song or movie I want without looking at the tiny screen. Cool. This feature alone has changed my mind on returning it. I need this.

Still trying to figure out how to get my damn movies on here.

So comparison here.


ipod: video 640x480
zune: 320x240

ipod: no menu navigation on screen
zune: has menu navigation on screen

ipod: More devices available
zune: almost none

ipod: mac and windows compatible
zune: windows only

ipod: pretty
zune: ugly

ipod: scratchpad, horrible
zune: scratch resistant

ipod 30gb: $249
zune: $199 if you are savy shopper.


Got questions about the zune, just ask. Still charging.

Jman888
Nov 14, 2006, 07:23 PM
But most people hae no idea what the frack it is.

Apple normally advertises no specifics... adds intrigue, which drives people to investigate.

People see Zune and go "wow, a brick-shaped turd."

That was hilarous/

840quadra
Nov 14, 2006, 07:33 PM
ipod: no menu navigation on screen
zune: has menu navigation on screen

Got questions about the zune, just ask. Still charging.

I was extremely pissed that the iPod 5g did not come with screen mirroring for menu functions when you are connected to an external screen. That and the fact of the remote being 100% worthless for menu navigation in the first place!

It was only when I became aware of the pending iTV that this made some sense to me. Why would anyone buy an iTV when you can navigate menus, select music, pictures, notes, or videos to view on your TV screen with an iPod using the Universal dock and remote?

Regardless of that, It still bothers me that these features are not built into the iPod 5G. The hardware is there, why not enable or add these features with a firmware update!?!?

iMeowbot
Nov 14, 2006, 07:40 PM
Hmm, that's funny, cause I'm pretty sure that quote wasn't referring to unprotected AAC or MP3. See, the Zune won't play any WMA files that use the "PlaysForSure" [sic] DRM, thus the quote is exactly right. If you bought music from any other online store (except the rare ones that sell unprotected music), then you can't use it on the Zune.

You need to read the whole thread for context. You can click on the little blue links in the posts to see the interpretation the previous poster took from that quote. That's what the little blue links are for. The little blue link would have led you to this:

This implies that if you have music on your computer that was NOT downloaded from M$'s Zune Marketplace, you can't play it. So, what's the point?

That's the bogus interpretation that will be taken away by many. Context, context.

monke
Nov 14, 2006, 07:42 PM
Miles O'Brien about Microsoft: Why can't they get some decent designers? LOL!

They call it bulky and ugly and Soledad O'Brien shows off her tiny Shuffle..


That was awesome, thanks for the link.

"Why can't they get some decent designers?" :eek:
Completely out of no where, and somewhat random. Hilarious. :)

Then she pulls out her shuffle...... :D

glennp
Nov 14, 2006, 07:49 PM
The only way Zune will sell at the moment is the fact at first glance it has more stuff than the current model iPod.

Just imagine in a department store:

Customer " I want to buy an MP3 player"
Rep " Yes - here we have an iPod and here we have a new product from MICROSOFT called the Zune"
Customer " what's the difference between them?"
Rep " The zune has everything the iPod has etc but it has more stuff too like........"
Customer " How much is it?"
Rep " Same as an iPod".


You keep saying the Zune offers "more" than the iPod but you're overlooking the last part of that conversation:

Customer: "Cool, so what games can you get for the Zune?"
Rep: "Oh, it doesn't do games like the iPod."
Customer: "I can put my address book and calendar on it though, right?"
Rep: "Ummm, no. It can't do that either."
Customer: "Notes?"
Rep: "Nope"
Customer: "I can at least use the Zune as a portable drive to transfer files?!?"
Rep: "That would also be a no."
Customer: "Well, how much does a song cost from the online store?"
Rep: "79 points."
Customer: "Points?"
Rep: "You buy a block of 400 points for $5 and they deduct 79 from that for each song you buy."
Customer: "But what happens if I don't use all my points?"
Rep: "Microsoft gets your money"
Customer: "Not if I buy an iPod they don't."

I really don't feel the Zune is the feature winner against the iPod. Yea, some may be swayed by the bigger screen but the whole point thing is going to be a Zune-killer.

macenforcer
Nov 14, 2006, 07:49 PM
Still trying to figure out how to get videos onto this Zune. So far I can't transfer any recorded tv from my Windows Media Center. LAME!

hulugu
Nov 14, 2006, 07:53 PM
...Customer " I want to buy an MP3 player"...

But, that's not what the average consumer says, instead they say "I need an iPod" because that's what their friends have, that's what their kid wants, that's what they've work great dozens of times. It's really the same dynamic that helps the Microsoft OS when someone wants a new computer.

The main customer for the Zune is the person who just doesn't want an iPod. I'm convinced that feature-itis is a real problem that actually scares customers rather than helping them choose between one product or another.

Stridder44
Nov 14, 2006, 07:55 PM
I was extremely pissed that the iPod 5g did not come with screen mirroring for menu functions when you are connected to an external screen. That and the fact of the remote being 100% worthless for menu navigation in the first place!

It was only when I became aware of the pending iTV that this made some sense to me. Why would anyone buy an iTV when you can navigate menus, select music, pictures, notes, or videos to view on your TV screen with an iPod using the Universal dock and remote?

Regardless of that, It still bothers me that these features are not built into the iPod 5G. The hardware is there, why not enable or add these features with a firmware update!?!?

Thats a very good point. That is ridiculous now that I think about it, even if the iTV is coming out. Apple, I hope you're reading this (doubted though).

Chundles
Nov 14, 2006, 08:04 PM
Oh man, this just keeps getting better and better...

AppleInsider shows Zune is incompatible with Vista (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2237)

Did MS let the work-experience kid come up with this whole thing?

zephead
Nov 14, 2006, 08:12 PM
Well to be fair, you have to take into consideration that Vista is still not in its final version.

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:21 PM
Well to be fair, you have to take into consideration that Vista is still not in its final version.

M$ is shipping the final version of Vista to major PC makers as we speak

elppa
Nov 14, 2006, 08:23 PM
Problem is - many people have 1,000s of songs in iTunes.

They can't use them with the Zune.

Furthermore, I have know idea how this thing handles podcasts - if at all.

I know many people who really enjoy listening to these.

The funiest quote was on the software, I think it was from cnet. The reviewer commented that after having 5 years to study iTunes the "Zune software and the Zune Marketplace are more Kazakhstan than Cupertino".

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:33 PM
"Zune software and the Zune Marketplace are more Kazakhstan than Cupertino".

"Hello, my name is Borat, I get a window from glass, he gets a window from glass, I get a step, he gets a step. I get an iPod, he gets a Zune :D. Great success."

Fits perfect- I loved that movie.

scotthew1
Nov 14, 2006, 08:34 PM
you must all remember that this isn't even really microsoft. they just got toshiba to modify a gigabeat s, give it a different name, and slap a mircosoft logo on it. im so very proud of you microsoft:D

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:36 PM
you must all remember that this isn't even really microsoft. they just got toshiba to modify a gigabeat s, give it a different name, and slap a mircosoft logo on it. im so very proud of you microsoft:D

the zune has it's own logo http://logos.neuronaltraining.net/Microsoft.Zune-logo.JPG

monke
Nov 14, 2006, 08:37 PM
Furthermore, I have know idea how this thing handles podcasts - if at all.

Podcasts are just audio feeds, or casts, someone just put iPod in front, took away the 'i' and podcasts were born. If they end up in MS's Zune store (or whatever) the may be called 'Zunecasts'.

elppa
Nov 14, 2006, 08:40 PM
Podcasts are just audio feeds, or casts, someone just put iPod in front, took away the 'i' and podcasts were born. If they end up in MS's Zune store (or whatever) the may be called 'Zunecasts'.

I know, but people still won't be able to listen to their existing podcasts on a zune...

Or any for the first few months any until Microsoft updates their market place software.

dlastmango
Nov 14, 2006, 08:40 PM
How long do you think M$ will keep the packaging design clean?
Here is a link we all need to watch again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dJEM1w9cg

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:41 PM
Podcasts are just audio feeds, or casts, someone just put iPod in front, took away the 'i' and podcasts were born. If they end up in MS's Zune store (or whatever) the may be called 'Zunecasts'.

Even while showcased in places other then itunes, they're called podcasts.

PS: "podcast" came from "iPod" and "broadcasting"

Multimedia
Nov 14, 2006, 08:41 PM
What a loser. 320x240 is a losing resolution to begin with.

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 08:42 PM
"Zune will only play protected content from Microsoft's new Zune Marketplace. Curiously, Zune is not compatible with previous Windows Media Player based music stores (such as Napster). "

This implies that if you have music on your computer that was NOT downloaded from M$'s Zune Marketplace, you can't play it. So, what's the point? I hope that there is a VERY liberal return policy on these things, or M$ will get A LOT of bad publicity. Who the heck would buy the Zune if they couldn't play music that they already had NOT bought through the Marketplace?!

I'd like to see the results of a reliable study that investigates what percentage of the total music out there on iPods and other MP3 players is actually paid for. Anyone know of a link?

You misinterpreted the quote. The key word is that the Zune will only play *protected* content from the Zune marketplace. Unprotected content (e.g. MP3s that you've ripped from your CDs) will play just fine. What this means is that Microsoft's "PlaysForSure" stores (e.g. Rhapsody, Yahoo Music, Napster, and I think MTV Urge) *won't* play on a Zune. Sucks for people that actually bothered to buy music from Napster or the other "PlaysForSure" stores and want a Zune.

P.S. even if I was anti-iPod, I just don't see the appeal of the Zune. I would be much more excited about things like Cingular Music, or the Rhapsody/BestBuy/SanDisk alliance. The Zune isn't even the best non-Ipod MP3 player out there!!!

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:45 PM
haha, looks like PlaysForSure doen't play for sure

monke
Nov 14, 2006, 08:45 PM
Even while showcased in places other then itunes, they're called podcasts.

PS: "podcast" came from "iPod" and "broadcasting"

I figured they were called podcasts everywhere else, but also figured MS will change all this.

I know, but people still won't be able to listen to their existing podcasts on a zune...

Or any for the first few months any until Microsoft updates their market place software.

They still should be able to listen on the Zune, unless it can't handle the file type. :confused:

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:52 PM
I figured they were called podcasts everywhere else, but also figured MS will change all this.



They still should be able to listen on the Zune, unless it can't handle the file type. :confused:

I hope they don't change "mp3" to "ms3"

sushi
Nov 14, 2006, 08:52 PM
Podcasts are just audio feeds, or casts, someone just put iPod in front, took away the 'i' and podcasts were born. If they end up in MS's Zune store (or whatever) the may be called 'Zunecasts'.
Or as some are saying, "Netcasts."

Personally, I like the Podcast term, just like Xerox for making a copy, whether it runs on a Mac, PC, iPod or Zune.

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 08:53 PM
Problem is - many people have 1,000s of songs in iTunes.

They can't use them with the Zune.


Hahahaha!!! This is awesome!!! Apple is the Microsoft of the Music Biz :D

Now nobody will use non-iPods because their afraid their MP3s won't play on a music player that isn't the iPod. It's too funny. It's just like the Mac-phobia that PC users have always had, except this time Apple is the 800-pound gorilla so the bias and misinformation are working in its favor.

For the record: The Zune plays MP3s, not to mention AAC and WMA files. It just can't play songs purchased from the iTunes store. There are very, very few people that have purchased 1000s of songs from the iTunes store. In fact, 22 songs have been sold on iTunes for every iPod sold. The vast majority of music people have in their iTunes collection are from ripping CDs or...other means...

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 08:59 PM
The vast majority of music people have in their iTunes collection are from ripping CDs or...other means...

By "other means..", I assume you mean printing the lyrics, singing the song, and recording it? :D :cool:

Chundles
Nov 14, 2006, 09:03 PM
Well to be fair, you have to take into consideration that Vista is still not in its final version.

Vista's been sent to manufacturing. It's being rolled out to corporate clients this month.

The general public isn't going to get it till next year though.

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 09:04 PM
Vista's been sent to manufacturing. It's being rolled out to corporate clients this month.

The general public isn't going to get it till next year though.

beat you to it :D

Chundles
Nov 14, 2006, 09:05 PM
beat you to it :D

Damn! :D

But I got you on the screen resolution. They're both 320x240.

How 'bout them, er, apples? :p

OldSkoolNJ
Nov 14, 2006, 09:06 PM
I work out of a heavy traffic CompUSA in Philly. I expected to see alot of customers there for it. Up until 8 o clock not a single one sold. I talked to someone who closed the store and they still hadnt sold one. I was quite surprised actually.

Kevin

hulugu
Nov 14, 2006, 09:09 PM
Hahahaha!!! This is awesome!!! Apple is the Microsoft of the Music Biz :D

Now nobody will use non-iPods because their afraid their MP3s won't play on a music player that isn't the iPod. It's too funny. It's just like the Mac-phobia that PC users have always had, except this time Apple is the 800-pound gorilla so the bias and misinformation are working in its favor.

For the record: The Zune plays MP3s, not to mention AAC and WMA files. It just can't play songs purchased from the iTunes store. There are very, very few people that have purchased 1000s of songs from the iTunes store. In fact, 22 songs have been sold on iTunes for every iPod sold. The vast majority of music people have in their iTunes collection are from ripping CDs or...other means...

The Zune does do something interesting, songs that are 'beamed' over are 'infected' with DRM, and the Zune doesn't work with WMA 11 nor anything bought with PlaysForSure.

As for the 22 songs, that's just a stastical average. Your point is taken, but this is just yet another barrier to entry that Microsoft will have to deal with because they're not only competing with iTunes, but their former partners.

AppleIntelRock
Nov 14, 2006, 09:09 PM
Damn! :D

But I got you on the screen resolution. They're both 320x240.

How 'bout them, er, apples? :p

Totally a typo ;)

p0intblank
Nov 14, 2006, 09:19 PM
Kudos to Microsoft for taking on Apple with what seems to be an okay product. But like the reviews have clearly pointed out, the iPod is definitely the winner. I'm still very interested in playing around with one.

ppnkg
Nov 14, 2006, 09:33 PM
Zune's screen will be tempting for many...

Overall, it's not better than ipod, but it's great news anyway. Apple will have to work harder and make the ipod better. Hopefully.

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 09:44 PM
haha, looks like PlaysForSure doen't play for sure

Since Microsoft left their former PlaysForSure partners hang to dry I hope some of them retaliate by creating a Mac version of their software. I would love to have the full Rhapsody client for the Mac. Rhapsody really puts iTunes to shame, actually, not just in interface but in features.

The main Rhapsody feature is of course the ability to play subscription content. I would *love* to be able to have a music subscription on my Mac. $15/month for unlimited music? That's just nuts!!!

Also , Rhapsody has custom radio stations where you give it a playlist or list of artists, and it finds other artists/songs like it. Basically like Pandora, except that you can click on any song in your custom radio station and download it to your library within seconds.

Question for people out there: is there any *technical* reason preventing the PlaysForSure DRM from being ported to OS X? I realize that Microsoft may very well have license terms that will prevent this from ever actually happening, but I'm just wondering if there's any technical reason why Real couldn't write an OS X port of its sofware that would fully implement its DRM.

nemaslov
Nov 14, 2006, 09:54 PM
Since Microsoft left their former PlaysForSure partners hang to dry I hope some of them retaliate by creating a Mac version of their software. I would love to have the full Rhapsody client for the Mac. Rhapsody really puts iTunes to shame, actually, not just in interface but in features.

The main Rhapsody feature is of course the ability to play subscription content. I would *love* to be able to have a music subscription on my Mac. $15/month for unlimited music? That's just nuts!!!

Also , Rhapsody has custom radio stations where you give it a playlist or list of artists, and it finds other artists/songs like it. Basically like Pandora, except that you can click on any song in your custom radio station and download it to your library within seconds.

Question for people out there: is there any *technical* reason preventing the PlaysForSure DRM from being ported to OS X? I realize that Microsoft may very well have license terms that will prevent this from ever actually happening, but I'm just wondering if there's any technical reason why Real couldn't write an OS X port of its sofware that would fully implement its DRM.

You WANT subscription? Whenever you STOP paying the monthly fee...your entire library dissapears!!. What you are doing is simply renting the music.

ppnkg
Nov 14, 2006, 09:59 PM
http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickability/index.html?url=/video/business/2006/11/14/sorkin.minding.your.business.cnn

Here is a little news piece from CNN's American Morning. The News people seem to gets whats wrong with the Zune.

Zune demolished in just a couple of minutes. Amazing video. Watch that women getting ecstatic about her ipod shuffle...

SiliconAddict
Nov 14, 2006, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=aussie_geek;3055461]

Naive users buy iPods due to 'coolness' not because of the features otherwise Zen & Archos would rule - they don't.

McD

Umm no. My fist Apple purchase was my 60GB iPod photo. I didn't buy it for the cool factor. I didn't but it for the ease of use. I purchased it because it was the only music player in that form factor with a 60GB drive and integrated with the best jukebox software on the market. The iTunes/iPod integration is a VERY, VERY, VERY powerful reason why many go iPod. That isn't to say that there aren't some fashion trend lemmings out there.

jp1554
Nov 14, 2006, 10:02 PM
It's unlikely you will be able to use a Zune on a commercial airline, as I believe they all prohibit the use of AM or FM radios for the entire duration of the flight. Good thing I got an iPod. :D

BengalDuck
Nov 14, 2006, 10:11 PM
The more I research, the more I'm disappointed.

I have 3 iPods.. 3G 20 GB iPod, 4G 30 GB Video iPod, and the 2G 1GB iPod shuffle. Also have a 17" G4 powerbook.

It's not that I'm an Apple man exclusively, it's just that I'll buy the best products.

The more research I do, I find that the Zune just isn't that great or even innovative of a product. I was thinking that it would challenge the iPod, but as of now it's not even close.

SiliconAddict
Nov 14, 2006, 10:11 PM
You WANT subscription? Whenever you STOP paying the monthly fee...your entire library dissapears!!. What you are doing is simply renting the music.

The same can be said of Netflix and Blockbuster Online. Or leasing a car or about a 100 other examples. There was a time when I was right there with you thinking that its a stupid way of acquiring songs. However not everyone cares about owing the music. They would rather be able to sample everything and when they get tired of that song they can simply remove it from their system.

*shrugs* Too each their own. I'm in the buy it one..play it forever camp.

manosaurus
Nov 14, 2006, 10:13 PM
The full line will finally be joined together like a beautiful Voltron episode.:D

Voltron, OMG! That show was awesome!

Undecided
Nov 14, 2006, 10:31 PM
Screw it - I need to buy a gift, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is and buying another iPod.

hamishb
Nov 14, 2006, 10:35 PM
Gosh, who really wants to buy DRM'd music which has a proprietary lock-in from a specific vendor. I mean if I bought music through the Zune marketplace, I can only play it on a Zune.

That will never work - I mean who would want to do that! I predict people will see right through this, avoid the Zune, and go back to their iPods and the iTunes store....

Well at least they can't accuse Apple any more of such a lock-in strategy. And in any case, it not like the iTunes store is the only place one can source music from! Lock-in doesn't = monopoly in this case.

;-)

Ace25
Nov 14, 2006, 10:40 PM
Check out the Today Show's "fair comparison" between the Zune and the 3G iPod!

http://www.jacksonlatka.com/blog/?p=60

brepublican
Nov 14, 2006, 10:44 PM
*clears throat*
Well! Those unpacking photos of that Zune sure do look sexy! If your idea of sexy is making a 'home video' of a Gisele Bundchen look-alike on your PC

:rolleyes:

wheezy
Nov 14, 2006, 10:44 PM
Check out the Today Show's "fair comparison" between the Zune and the 3G iPod!

http://www.jacksonlatka.com/blog/?p=60

That is horribly horribly wrong.

'Look how this 2007 Lexus LS460 completely out does this 1989 BMW 7 Series'

MSNCB owned by Microsoft, yes. Biased? Apparently. Reputable news? Less so every day.

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 10:46 PM
You WANT subscription? Whenever you STOP paying the monthly fee...your entire library dissapears!!. What you are doing is simply renting the music.

Umm...so? The value I get from music is from *listening* to it, not from *owning* it. I would much, much, much rather pay $15/month for unlimited music.

And so what if the music dissapears if I decide to, for example, switch providers from Rhapsody to Napster or something? All the subscription services have more or less the same catalog of songs, so the next time you think of a song that you want to play, you can quickly search your new provider for the song, and in a few seconds you can be downloading the whole album. And since the song starts playing almost immediately while you're downloading it, it's almost as if it was already in your library.

Sheesh, all you people criticizing subscription services have no idea what you're talking about. I've taken Yahoo Music, Napster, and Rhapsody for a test run, so I can fairly compare them against each other and also to the iTunes store. And honestly, the whole, "your music dissapears" issue was just not a factor. It's just a total paradigm shift.

Think of it this way: in the time it takes you to search through your library to find a song/album and play it, you can search on a subscription service for *every song ever made* (ok, not really of course, but still, we're talking about millions of songs), and be playing that very same song/album in about the same time. In one case you're searching your own relatively limited music collection, in another case you're searching a catalog of millions of songs. The end result is the same: within a few seconds you're playing the song. And by the time the song finishes playing, in both cases it will be in your hard drive.

Also, the "custom radio station" feature is fantastic for music discovery. If you've used Pandora you know what I'm talking about. But the thing is, with a subscription service, you can copy that song to your library at no additional incremental cost. You don't have to pay an additional $0.99 cents to download that cool song that you've never heard before. You've already paid a flat subscritpion rate, so you're much, much more likely to take a chance and download that song you just heard, because the only cost is another 5MB or so on your hard drive. And not necessarily even that, because you can also "bookmark" a song which means it will *only* play in streaming mode (and thus only when your are connected to the internet).

Believe me, it may not happen this year or the next, but eventually subscriptions *will* be the dominant model. It's just too good a deal for the consumer for it not to happen.

msiller
Nov 14, 2006, 10:46 PM
they can't even make it a good brown...:rolleyes:

As I said before on another forum, I finally understood the logic behind selling a brown colored Zune player, and it's very simple really...
Isn't ***** usually brown?? :p

Mike31c
Nov 14, 2006, 10:47 PM
Here's something posted @ zune.net

http://www.zune.net/en-US/meetzune/software/OS_not_supported.htm

Windows Vista is not supported at this time. Check back soon for updates. :rolleyes:

So they @ microsoft release a product of the future (yeah right) yet their own OS of the future can't support it at this time? How sad and quite typical of ms.

Sedulous
Nov 14, 2006, 10:54 PM
Umm...so? The value I get from music is from *listening* to it, not from *owning* it. I would much, much, much rather pay $15/month for unlimited music.

...snip for brevity...

It is sort of the question of owning a house verses renting a house. In the end, while there are some advantages to renting, there are much greater advantages to owning.

Ace25
Nov 14, 2006, 10:57 PM
It is sort of the question of owning a house verses renting a house. In the end, while there are some advantages to renting, there are much greater advantages to owning.

Good point, except that you probably don't end up paying more for 'renting' with this model (especially if you don't have a base of 5,000 songs that you got for free when Napster was Napster).

zap2
Nov 14, 2006, 10:58 PM
Check out the Today Show's "fair comparison" between the Zune and the 3G iPod!

http://www.jacksonlatka.com/blog/?p=60

Thats a 4G iPod....I saw that 3G on the title, and stopped reading/ People need to have the basic facts down, then they can give an opinion(and have me take it seriously)

macenforcer
Nov 14, 2006, 11:00 PM
Ok, I have f..ed with this zune all night long and it SUCKS. Getting videos on it is a nightmare. The zune software is just flat out broken. Tons of bugs. It converts EVERY single video file I put on it regardless of what format its in and it takes forever. The player is nice but the software is lame. The only reason I got it was to put my massive MCE recorded tv shows library on it but it WON'T do that. Microsoft, you SUCK.

Taking this thing back tomorrow. Uhhgg.

Ace25
Nov 14, 2006, 11:11 PM
Thats a 4G iPod....I saw that 3G on the title, and stopped reading/ People need to have the basic facts down, then they can give an opinion(and have me take it seriously)
You are right. It does say 4G in the post.

lmalave
Nov 14, 2006, 11:12 PM
It is sort of the question of owning a house verses renting a house. In the end, while there are some advantages to renting, there are much greater advantages to owning.

That's a really bad analogy. Buying a house is good because it's an *investment*, that has value to *other* people. Music, on the other hand, has no such comparable transfer/resale value, and certainly not one that would increase over time.

So forget the analogies and let's actually consider what we're actually comparing here. We're comparing buying songs for $0.99 apiece, vs. a subscription service of $15/month or so. So over a year, the subscription costs you $180. On iTunes, that would buy you 18 albums. Not a bad number at all, except that on a subscription service you will probably download a *lot* more than 18 albums in the course of a year.

Are there switching costs if you cancel your subscription? Sure there are - you have to spend some time downloading all the songs again. But in my opinion this switching cost is vastly outweighed by the benefits of subscription.

zephead
Nov 14, 2006, 11:17 PM
Microsoft, you SUCK.

In other breaking news, violence erupted in the middle east today, another company releases what is sure to be an "iPod killer", and cyber-delinquents have figured out a way to mess with other people's PC's, without their knowledge! More at 11!

PODshady
Nov 14, 2006, 11:31 PM
I dont know if anyone else said this or not but according to Appleinsider.com the Microsoft Zune Player is not compatible with Windows Vista due to Microsoft's "need" to release Zune in time for the holidays

ClimbingTheLog
Nov 14, 2006, 11:36 PM
I'd type more, but my joints are all stiff since I've got a bad stomach bug.

Um, I don't think you're supposed to get stiff joints from a stomach bug. Stop posting on MacRumors and go find a doctor.

zephead
Nov 14, 2006, 11:40 PM
I dont know if anyone else said this or not but according to Appleinsider.com the Microsoft Zune Player is not compatible with Windows Vista due to Microsoft's "need" to release Zune in time for the holidays

It's been discussed.

Oh man, this just keeps getting better and better...

AppleInsider shows Zune is incompatible with Vista (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2237)

Did MS let the work-experience kid come up with this whole thing?

Well to be fair, you have to take into consideration that Vista is still not in its final version.

M$ is shipping the final version of Vista to major PC makers as we speak

Vista's been sent to manufacturing. It's being rolled out to corporate clients this month.

The general public isn't going to get it till next year though.

ClimbingTheLog
Nov 14, 2006, 11:51 PM
And what's with using the most lampooned colour that there is - brown?

I can't think of a more fitting name for a brown music player than the Brown Note (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note).

Spread the meme.

Let's think of some new marketing slogans. A few candidates:

Zune - it's so good you'll !$%* your pants.
Zune - Drop off your Inner DJ's at the pool
You're sliding into first, and you feel a sudden need-to-share-music-with-strangers-in-a-needlessly-complex-fashion - Zune
Zune - Hiiiii-Deeee-Hooooo music lovers!
Zune - welcome to the Social .... ewww, what kind of social involves lots of brown? You people are sick.
DRM. DRRRRM. DRRRRRRMMMMM. DRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMM.... Zune. - eat your veggies.

The simple notions of " Bigger is better" and " more for your money" will unfortunately come into effect when considering to buy this product.

Often yes, but not for something you intend to carry in your pocket. One only needs to look at cell phone trends to confirm this.

MacinDoc
Nov 14, 2006, 11:54 PM
That's a really bad analogy. Buying a house is good because it's an *investment*, that has value to *other* people. Music, on the other hand, has no such comparable transfer/resale value, and certainly not one that would increase over time.

So forget the analogies and let's actually consider what we're actually comparing here. We're comparing buying songs for $0.99 apiece, vs. a subscription service of $15/month or so. So over a year, the subscription costs you $180. On iTunes, that would buy you 18 albums. Not a bad number at all, except that on a subscription service you will probably download a *lot* more than 18 albums in the course of a year.

Are there switching costs if you cancel your subscription? Sure there are - you have to spend some time downloading all the songs again. But in my opinion this switching cost is vastly outweighed by the benefits of subscription.
If your subscription lapses, not only do you have to spend time downloading the songs again, you don't even have access to them without purchasing them from another source. You can't legally make DRM-free copies to keep if you cancel your subscription. So, if you have 200 songs that you "must have", you will have to either continue your subscription or buy them somewhere else. I don't know about you, but I prefer to keep a copy of the songs I like, I don't change my musical taste every month. And I don't buy 180 songs a year (that would be 1 new song every 2 days).

Anyway, I wouldn't trust a music service that failed to support any of its predecessors' subscribers. How would you feel if you couldn't play any songs purchased under iTunes 6 when you upgraded to iTunes 7? Ironic that the previous Microsoft format was called "Plays For Sure". And what's Microsoft's points system? Just a way to fool consumers into thinking they're spending less money than they really are. There's really no other point to it.

Finally, there's really only one iPod that the Zune can be reasonably compared to, the 30 GB Video iPod, arguably the poorest value of any iPod. The Zune lacks the capacity of the 80 GB, and lacks the compactness of the Nano and the Shuffle. So I don't see the current model as being much of the anticipated "iPod killer".

BTW, I hear Microsoft is also planning to produce a phone next year. With the XBox and the Zune, is Microsoft planning to call it the Yax to keep with the end-of-the-alphabet theme?

SFVCyclone
Nov 15, 2006, 12:04 AM
I cant believe so many people have actually favored the zone in some features over the iPod.

CompUSAMacNerd
Nov 15, 2006, 12:08 AM
Haha, I love how there are threads like this (http://www.zunescene.com/forums/index.php?topic=2015.msg15980) already...

http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pissedia6.jpg

FTW!

:)

archurban
Nov 15, 2006, 12:17 AM
Umm...so? The value I get from music is from *listening* to it, not from *owning* it. I would much, much, much rather pay $15/month for unlimited music.

And so what if the music dissapears if I decide to, for example, switch providers from Rhapsody to Napster or something? All the subscription services have more or less the same catalog of songs, so the next time you think of a song that you want to play, you can quickly search your new provider for the song, and in a few seconds you can be downloading the whole album. And since the song starts playing almost immediately while you're downloading it, it's almost as if it was already in your library.

Sheesh, all you people criticizing subscription services have no idea what you're talking about. I've taken Yahoo Music, Napster, and Rhapsody for a test run, so I can fairly compare them against each other and also to the iTunes store. And honestly, the whole, "your music dissapears" issue was just not a factor. It's just a total paradigm shift.

Think of it this way: in the time it takes you to search through your library to find a song/album and play it, you can search on a subscription service for *every song ever made* (ok, not really of course, but still, we're talking about millions of songs), and be playing that very same song/album in about the same time. In one case you're searching your own relatively limited music collection, in another case you're searching a catalog of millions of songs. The end result is the same: within a few seconds you're playing the song. And by the time the song finishes playing, in both cases it will be in your hard drive.

Also, the "custom radio station" feature is fantastic for music discovery. If you've used Pandora you know what I'm talking about. But the thing is, with a subscription service, you can copy that song to your library at no additional incremental cost. You don't have to pay an additional $0.99 cents to download that cool song that you've never heard before. You've already paid a flat subscritpion rate, so you're much, much more likely to take a chance and download that song you just heard, because the only cost is another 5MB or so on your hard drive. And not necessarily even that, because you can also "bookmark" a song which means it will *only* play in streaming mode (and thus only when your are connected to the internet).

Believe me, it may not happen this year or the next, but eventually subscriptions *will* be the dominant model. It's just too good a deal for the consumer for it not to happen.

it's your choice what it is. if you like, go ahead. I don't care. but subscription has the same DRM as MS offers. unfortunately the service from other like napster, Rhapsody WILL NOT PLAY on zune because MS is dumped all play for sure platform. it's only zune, stupid marketplace.

JZ Wire
Nov 15, 2006, 01:14 AM
If you think the Zune is bad wait till you see the software. Check out Engadget install the Zune's Marketplace crap... Its hilarious, except for those who buy it. :D http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/

amols
Nov 15, 2006, 01:18 AM
From CNN review:
"For those who have long lists of albums or artists, the Zune aids in rapid scrolling by showing a large letter of the alphabet, letting you know, for example, that you've reached the R section."

The writer may not know that this is a straight rip-off from iPod since iPod has had this feature for some time now. Just try scrolling fast through the songs list.

xStep
Nov 15, 2006, 01:21 AM
It's just a pity that Apple doesn't have one up for xmas.
aussie_geek
It's a pity that Apple didn't release the craved for video iPod today. Now that would have taken a hugh bite out of MS' Zune announcement.

Chundles
Nov 15, 2006, 01:21 AM
From CNN review:
"For those who have long lists of albums or artists, the Zune aids in rapid scrolling by showing a large letter of the alphabet, letting you know, for example, that you've reached the R section."

The writer may not know that this is a straight rip-off from iPod since iPod has had this feature for some time now. Just try scrolling fast through the songs list.

Well, to be fair it was present on the Zune first. Pre-production units had this capability before it was announced on the iPod. But, like Spotlight, Apple was able to adapt quickly and introduce it before Microsoft and make the feature something everybody expects - eliminating MS's ability to hype said feature.

hulugu
Nov 15, 2006, 01:23 AM
That's a really bad analogy. Buying a house is good because it's an *investment*, that has value to *other* people. Music, on the other hand, has no such comparable transfer/resale value, and certainly not one that would increase over time.

So forget the analogies and let's actually consider what we're actually comparing here. We're comparing buying songs for $0.99 apiece, vs. a subscription service of $15/month or so. So over a year, the subscription costs you $180. On iTunes, that would buy you 18 albums. Not a bad number at all, except that on a subscription service you will probably download a *lot* more than 18 albums in the course of a year.

Are there switching costs if you cancel your subscription? Sure there are - you have to spend some time downloading all the songs again. But in my opinion this switching cost is vastly outweighed by the benefits of subscription.

Effectively, with Rhapsody and others, the album goes back to radio play or cable service, except I can time-shift and place-shift the media. And this sounds great, but the reality of the service is a lot of work, a lot of time and money for nothing. Not to mention $15 a month for poorly encoded WMA files.
The real problem with subscription services is the games the RIAA plays, you can't burn files to a CD, you are limited by file the numbers of computers you can have the music on, you have to connect your computer and player to the Internet every 30 days, the DRM server fails to work, and they don't work on the Mac. Forget the iPod, if something doesn't work on the Mac, I don't care about it because the company has, in my mind, made a concious choice to ignore me and I'll do the same.
Blaming the iPod is a convenient, if a little truthful, excuse.

Personally, I like eMusic, which is a nice hybrid. Yes, I pay a monthly fee, but I can download larger numbers of files which are unencumbered by DRM. For the same $15, I can get 65 files which I can burn and play as I wish.

When you bought an LP or a CD, you 'owned' music. This is increasingly less true, but the current subcription services require too many sacrifices of this older model to work for me.

Chundles
Nov 15, 2006, 01:25 AM
It's a pity that Apple didn't release the craved for video iPod today. Now that would have taken a hugh bite out of MS' Zune announcement.

I reckon we'll see it early next year. Apple will ride the wave of product maturity this Christmas buying season and then re-invigorate the line with the first REAL revision to the iPod line since it's introduction in 2001.

And boy is it going to be sweet. I won't be buying one though unless the next six weeks (that contain both my birthday and Christmas) don't bring forth a 5.5G iPod. If a new iPod isn't forthcoming I'll be all over the next iPod like white on rice.

Docoe
Nov 15, 2006, 01:29 AM
After reading the engadget post on installing the software and seeing how bad the marketing slogans were, I've come up with some ideas M$ could use to improve the whole "Zune experience". OK, I didn't actually come up with them, I got them from Joe Dirt.

first take any crappy slogan for the Zune and put the word DUDE at the end.
It finishes their sentence for them and better targets their demographic.

So release your inner dj becomes release your inner dj dude.

welcome to the social dude, etc.

I've started a complete makeover of the engadget/zune install post using other Dirte-isms dude - check it (http://web.mac.com/dorseycoe).

redAPPLE
Nov 15, 2006, 01:30 AM
and they said, Apple had environmental issues.

hulugu
Nov 15, 2006, 01:36 AM
Well, to be fair it was present on the Zune first. Pre-production units had this capability before it was announced on the iPod. But, like Spotlight, Apple was able to adapt quickly and introduce it before Microsoft and make the feature something everybody expects - eliminating MS's ability to hype said feature.

Where did you hear this? Wasn't this present on all the iPod Videos, or did this come during a software update?

If this is true, Apple smells a little sweeter, they can pull an idea from a pre-production unit, figure it out, and then add it into their own product before Microsoft can finish the original system. Now that's wicked.

Chundles
Nov 15, 2006, 01:40 AM
Where did you hear this? Wasn't this present on all the iPod Videos, or did this come during a software update?

If this is true, Apple smells a little sweeter, they can pull an idea from a pre-production unit, figure it out, and then add it into their own product before Microsoft can finish the original system. Now that's wicked.

It first came on the 5.5G iPods released in September this year - it was added to the first lot of 5G iPods via the software update to 1.2 that also enabled the older models to playback the new higher quality video content and games.

The large letter device for scrolling had been shown on the Zune before the 5.5G iPod was released.

It is pretty cool.

hulugu
Nov 15, 2006, 01:41 AM
Ok, I have f..ed with this zune all night long and it SUCKS. Getting videos on it is a nightmare. The zune software is just flat out broken. Tons of bugs. It converts EVERY single video file I put on it regardless of what format its in and it takes forever. The player is nice but the software is lame. The only reason I got it was to put my massive MCE recorded tv shows library on it but it WON'T do that. Microsoft, you SUCK.

Taking this thing back tomorrow. Uhhgg.

Remember this and tell everyone you know, Microsoft uses early-adopters as beta testers. Anyone who insists on ignoring this is a masochist.

It first came on the 5.5G iPods released in September this year - it was added to the first lot of 5G iPods via the software update to 1.2 that also enabled the older models to playback the new higher quality video content and games.

The large letter device for scrolling had been shown on the Zune before the 5.5G iPod was released.

It is pretty cool.

I hadn't realized that until now, my iPod had that ability out of the box so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info. That was easier than digging through the iPod Updater notes.

The reviewer is wrong though, he makes it sound as if the iPod lacks this ability entirely.

sachamun
Nov 15, 2006, 01:41 AM
As I said before on another forum, I finally understood the logic behind selling a brown colored Zune player, and it's very simple really...
Isn't ***** usually brown?? :p

on that brown note...
Did anyone else notice something strange about the marketing photos and events that ms has released?
In almost every zune promo shot there's a token black person (or more often than not, people).
I know it happens all the time in promo materials...but could there be a connection with the brown zune?

They seem to have paid alot of black artists to play at their events, too.
(or is bill's street cred just so heavy that they all did it as a solid?)

http://sachakloostra.com/gates_yo.jpg

lorien
Nov 15, 2006, 01:47 AM
I love the wireless "sharing", now it's not long before a Windoze virus becomes airborne! :eek: