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View Full Version : [Games Forum] Moderation Request


Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 11:23 AM
This is something of a strange request: I'd like to request more moderation for a particular area of MacRumors. More specifically, a moderator or two for the Games sub-fora (who is familiar with the fora).

This forum has always been a hotbed of activity and discussion -- most of it pleasant -- but quite frequently erupts into flamefests or personal attacks over gaming (console) preferences. As two new consoles are released this week -- the Wii and the PS3 -- the Games forum is only going to get worse, IMO.

Just this week activity is WAY up in the Games forum. On the first page alone there are several repeat threads that should be merged and/or closed. The degree of overlap and signal-to-noise ratio quite high.

It is my impression that the Games forum is very rarely moderated unless a thread is reported. Having a regular contributor to that forum (or more) with moderator privileges would be a great boon, IMO.

Thanks,

Blue Velvet
Nov 15, 2006, 11:38 AM
I suspect that many who report stuff don't venture into the Games forum or are not interested in the topic so perhaps that's why it's not as self-policing as some would like.

I think it's a good idea to have some more mods; they seem to be a little thin on the ground recently. Not a criticism, just an observation; they're probably fed-up to the back teeth with the lot of us. I've suggested some possible names in the past...

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 11:41 AM
I discussed this with the Doc a couple of months back.

Your right there is an awful lot of repeat threads lately. Obviously its too hard for some posters to search for the search tool ;)

The level of blind fanaticism of certain posters (quite often newbies, and sometimes not so newbie) astounds me, and when you try and be level headed and show them a 'balanced' perspective your often flamed to high heaven.

But the quest for enlightenment continues :)

Doesn't seem to happen in the other sections, maybe because the games forum tends to attract a younger less mature audience.

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 11:46 AM
Doesn't seem to happen in the other sections, maybe because the games forum tends to attract a younger less mature audience.
Sadly, true. They're also more prone to starting the flamewars, IMO and the duplicate threads.

Don't get me wrong: we all get hot under the collar. The Games forum just does it more often and easier, I've found.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 11:50 AM
Sometimes I feel yourself and myself (and Oni too) are like 'peace activists' standing amongst a raging battlefield of hormones & insecurity - waving our little white flags trying to create order out of the chaos.

Sometimes it works, more often it doesnt and we are gunned down in a barage of petty flame attacks as we try and bring balance to the force...

Lord Blackadder
Nov 15, 2006, 12:03 PM
The moderation here at MR is of a pretty high standard, so I'm sure it's hard to enlarge the ranks of the mods while keeping the quality high.

But I do agree that the Gaming forum seems to have a higher occurence of flamewars than most of the other forums on the site. Kids and their consoles...;) :rolleyes: :D

SilentPanda
Nov 15, 2006, 12:34 PM
It is meta-moderated already. By the forum users. That's what the "report post" is intended for in my opinion. I'm not a moderator but (as I'm sure the mods know) go on reporting sprees now and again. If you see threads that should be removed, merged, whatever, just report 'em. The mods are normally quite quick.

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 12:43 PM
It is meta-moderated already. By the forum users. That's what the "report post" is intended for in my opinion. I'm not a moderator but (as I'm sure the mods know) go on reporting sprees now and again. If you see threads that should be removed, merged, whatever, just report 'em. The mods are normally quite quick.
I report often. My finger hurts from using the option. In many cases a thread is derailed too far to even bother reporting...or merging. Rarely are the threads moderated. I also get the sense I'm the only one even reporting them at times.

I don't believe I've ever seen a Games thread merged. I can't think of anytime a moderator has stepped in and tried to diffuse an arguement. I've never seen a duplicate thread -- like the several that exist there right now -- closed. I *have* seen edited posts where someone, in the heat of an arguement, says something inappropriate and a mod deletes it out.

Maybe the threads aren't being reported or the mods aren't acting on them; or both. Maybe they don't care. It is, after all, only the Games forum.

It'd be nice to have a mod who frequents that forum on a regular basis clean up the mess before they beomce a mess, however.

AoWolf
Nov 15, 2006, 12:48 PM
I Propose we change the name of the gaming forum to the Endless WoW questions and Console Flame forum. It really does get bad in their for every intelligent post there are 4 angry ones.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 01:05 PM
I Propose we change the name of the gaming forum to the Endless WoW questions and Console Flame forum. It really does get bad in their for every intelligent post there are 4 angry ones.

I actually offered to create a WoW page answering the commonly asked WoW questions..., and asked for posters to send me there specs and stuff so that I could compile it. Did any one of them bother. No. Sometimes you wonder if community means anything to some....

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 01:35 PM
I know this issue came up before and I thought it calmed down a bit, If its not getting better maybe some outside help is needed. In general as this site grows maybe some more Mods should be added to the site as a whole.

eva01
Nov 15, 2006, 01:39 PM
I think that at least one semi-moderator is needed possibly. Just because there are a lot of duplicates going on and some not so pleasant posts as well.

Maybe even just a temp moderator for the games forum


But that is just my opinion, so whatever Arn, Mudbug, and Doctor Q think of is fine.

AoWolf
Nov 15, 2006, 01:39 PM
I actually offered to create a WoW page answering the commonly asked WoW questions..., and asked for posters to send me there specs and stuff so that I could compile it. Did any one of them bother. No. Sometimes you wonder if community means anything to some....

Well I think thats a nobel idea I think most people just settled with the general wow community thats already their. It is an interesting point that a mac wow community has never really taken off. Though I am not sure Macrumors is the place to start one.

SpankyPenzaanz
Nov 15, 2006, 01:49 PM
Yay! and there was much rejoicing in the land for sooth a moderator may soon dawn our presence

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 01:51 PM
Well I think thats a nobel idea I think most people just settled with the general wow community thats already their. It is an interesting point that a mac wow community has never really taken off. Though I am not sure Macrumors is the place to start one.

You misunderstood me, I wasnt really thinking of a specific wow community, but just the general community that this forum and 'games' section reaches. I was thinking more of a comprehensive sticky FAQ for wow, as it's the same questions that arise every time, it would be a handy resource on top of the games section, rather than replying fifty times to the same question by a different poster.

Another handy sticky would be game compatability on the macbook, as that "fill in the gap ______ on my macbook?" question keeps popping its head every other day.

Doctor Q
Nov 15, 2006, 01:51 PM
We're listening to your comments but have reached no conclusion yet. Please continue your discussion and suggestions.

I can make one immediate suggestion about this issue:I've never seen a duplicate thread -- like the several that exist there right now -- closed.Duplicate threads are more likely to be merged or have the newest one closed if you (a) report the new duplicate thread promptly, rather than after many pages of posts and (b) provide the URL of the original thread in your Post Report, so we don't have to hunt or guess which one you mean.

If the moderators agree that a newly started thread is a duplicate of a specific other thread, we almost always intervene, and I can't think of a case where we ignored a report of a duplicate Games thread, even if we sometimes decided not to take action.

AoWolf
Nov 15, 2006, 01:54 PM
You misunderstood me, I wasnt really thinking of a specific wow community, but just the general community that this forum and 'games' section reaches. I was thinking more of a comprehensive sticky FAQ for wow, as it's the same questions that arise every time, it would be a handy resource on top of the games section, rather than replying fifty times to the same question by a different poster.

Ah I think I understand better now. I guess my response though would be this: All of that stuff is already out there its all over the blizzard site and wow community sites. Even most Mac specific stuff is addressed. I really think its just a case of people not looking hard enough for the information.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 15, 2006, 01:55 PM
I read the game forum regularly (tend to ignore the 360 threads though).

I think some of you here see flames and fanboy-ism where none exists. I often see people throwing around accusations of bias where none exists. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are biased and need to be moderated. The recent thread on DVD playback on a future version of the Wii is a good example. I think these accusations tend to be the real flames, rather than the comments that prompted them.

But it all comes down to reporting. I am much more likely to moderate something if it has been reported than just if I observe it myself.

For duplicated threads, it helps to give us the url of the original thread you want the new one merged into.

If you want more moderation, the answer is simple. Do a better job reporting posts.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 02:06 PM
I read the game forum regularly (tend to ignore the 360 threads though).

I think some of you here see flames and fanboy-ism where none exists. I often see people throwing around accusations of bias where none exists.

To be honest i think you have to almost live on the games forum like some of us do. We know pretty much ALL the regular posters and their previous posts and paticular bias. There are a heck of a lot of people on that forum who tend to just appear at any given opportunity to start a flame war.

I dont want to start naming names, but I can post you a list and what they always will say or stance they will adopt. More often than not just to antagonize the OP.


I really think its just a case of people not looking hard enough for the information.

That is the problem really, hence if a sticky FAQ is there in front of them theyd have no excuse. A handy resource for not only them, but for us regulars who try and respond helpfully to all of them.

edit. additional explanation - I know there is a WoW on mac's help guide already, but it hasnt been updated in a long while. I merely was offering to fill in the blanks so asked for the posters to send me there respective specs and details (settings and frame-rates) and any issues. Basically then I'd compile all that information and update the help me for them... but no one bothered which did surprise me.

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 02:18 PM
If you want more moderation, the answer is simple. Do a better job reporting posts.
Pardon me for saying so, but this was what was said last time. The situation hasn't improved. Stating the same thing over and over does not make it any better.

I dislike how a discussion on moderation -- or in this case asking for more moderation -- invariably becomes of one "it's your (the users) fault."

:(

I think it's telling when one of the more regular threadcrappers in the Games forum admits it could use more moderation.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 15, 2006, 02:29 PM
Well we don't want to start discussing things in public that should be kept private, but I can say that many of the people complaining are in fact the biggest problem starters.

The trouble with more moderation in the games forum, is that there is rarely any rules violation. Arguments are more border-line. People are just being consistently rude to each other, and it is more of a pattern of mild abuse than a clear cut post one could delete.

And we still get very few reported posts from the games forum. So while a couple regular posters might be complaining, they aren't doing anything to help the situation.

The trouble as I see it is that problems tend to be border-line issues, and are therefore ignored unless they are reported by members. If we see a borderline problem , but no one reports it we tend to let it slide.

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 02:30 PM
I don't hang out in the Games forum, but I routinely report posts in just about every other area of the site. Almost every single report I make is dealt with promptly. The ones that aren't are usually ones that I thought were borderline anyway, but wanted to bring it to the attention of the mods for their opinion. (Those often get moderated later anyway as the thread develops down the path I thought it might.)

Based on my experiences with reporting posts, I find it hard to believe that mods would simply ignore reports from any area of the site.

Lau
Nov 15, 2006, 02:31 PM
Pardon me for saying so, but this was what was said last time. The situation hasn't improved. Stating the same thing over and over does not make it any better.

I dislike how a discussion on moderation -- or in this case asking for more moderation -- invariably becomes of one "it's your (the users) fault."

But I dislike how moderators (who give up their own time to sort the forum out) get hassle for asking us, as the users of the forum, to help out by reporting posts. They really can't be expected to read every thread.

And surely it is the users fault? The fact that one forum is worse for this kind of thing than others surely shows it must be something about the users of it, especially as it's about a fairly innocuous subject, unlike, say politics. I don't think you're wrong to ask for moderation, but I do think that finding a way to encourage the users of the Games forum to help out by reporting posts would be a good thing to start with rather than a dedicated mod.

Could the more mature members lead by example and mention they had reported posts, for example? I know I wasn't aware of the report post feature for a while, and didn't use it for longer because I assumed it was for more serious issues, rather than the odd clean up. Perhaps a way of educating some of the less established members on what the report post feature's for, and when to use it might be better in the long run. It's something I think would be good for the whole forum, although it seems the Games forum has more problems than the others, and it's because of this bickering I tend to stay clear.

jsw
Nov 15, 2006, 02:34 PM
I dont want to start naming names, but I can post you a list and what they always will say or stance they will adopt. More often than not just to antagonize the OP.
Just out of curiosity, if you know what they're going to say before they say it, why would that antagonize anyone - just ignore them. Or, better, add them to your Ignore list.

Obviously, extreme posts will be deleted if reported. But... if we deleted every post that showed a proclivity for a certain platform, the threads would be pretty empty.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 02:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, if you know what they're going to say before they say it, why would that antagonize anyone - just ignore them. Or, better, add them to your Ignore list.

Obviously, extreme posts will be deleted if reported. But... if we deleted every post that showed a proclivity for a certain platform, the threads would be pretty empty.

I did not mean antagonizing to myself, but to the OP who are asking a question, or looking for advice.

There are a lot of posters who arent regulars on that section, so just ignoring the trolls does not help the person wanting help or advice.

An example would be any gaming on macbook question. There a certain poster who will step in, say apple dont care for gamers. GMA950 is crap and then leave, without offering any help to the op. Whilst we ignore them generally, there are others that dont and hence the topic can spiral out of control. Ignoring them does not help the situation for anyone as it leads to chaotic destructive threads.

A mod to delete posts like as soon as they are spotted, that would stop that as it keeps the thread on topic. Closing your eyes and making loud noises doesnt make the trolls go away. A more pro-active rather than re-active stance, albeit that uses commonsense.

Could the more mature members lead by example and mention they had reported posts, for example?

I've done that a number of occasions and then received a message from a mod that I should/need not post a response (the reason for reporting) like that into the thread.


Based on my experiences with reporting posts, I find it hard to believe that mods would simply ignore reports from any area of the site.

I agree with you completely. I dont think this request for more moderation on the gamer section should be seen as a 'complaining against the mods' stance. Mods do a great job and their help is appreciated by many, we know its a voluntary position and have utter most respect for that. Asking for a little extra help isn't a bad thing.

FleurDuMal
Nov 15, 2006, 02:45 PM
Unfortunately, from what I can see, the users in that forum that post the most frequently are all perceived as being too partisan one way or the other. As a result there would be constant complaints that whoever is chosen as moderator was acting in a biased manner whenever they acted in a way which would seem to reinforce their percieved partisanship. Their authority would be completely undermined as a result.

The only solution as far as I can see is to have two or three mods, one from each 'camp', so to speak, so everyone is seen as represented.

OutThere
Nov 15, 2006, 02:49 PM
<snip>

Off topic I know...but thanks for the chuckle at your avatar and location. I did a triple-take and then laughed. :D

zap2
Nov 15, 2006, 03:03 PM
Unfortunately, from what I can see, the users in that forum that post the most frequently are all perceived as being too partisan one way or the other. As a result there would be constant complaints that whoever is chosen as moderator was acting in a biased manner whenever they acted in a way which would seem to reinforce their percieved partisanship. Their authority would be completely undermined as a result.



I think that idea was put out there, and shot down(I had thought it was a good idea at first) but then the Nintendo Mod would see MS and Sony fans as trolls, and Sony fans would see MS and Nintendo fans as trolls and MS fans would see Nintendo and Sony fans as trolls..they would go hunting for them!(Mac gaming is really involves in the hate between consoles..maybe some hate between Mac/PC gamers vs Console gamers, but I don't think is a big problem in OUR forum for games_


I think a Mod who either likes them all alot(as close as one can be to equally a fan of all of them) or someone who doesn't care about what system/computer they play, but the still know things about games.

thedude110
Nov 15, 2006, 03:04 PM
The recent thread on DVD playback on a future version of the Wii is a good example. I think these accusations tend to be the real flames, rather than the comments that prompted them.


Just had a good read through that thread, and granting that it may have already been moderated, I also see nothing over the line in it. It seems like a typical message board -- people giving their opinions, talking past each other and generally not doing a very good job of listening to each other. But all in a civil enough way.

To those agitating for more mod attention to the games forum: Would love to see a link to a still open thread that you perceive to have gone "over the edge" -- this thread is dying for examples.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 03:14 PM
If there was going to be a "Game Mod", it would be better that that person not have a bias either way but was truly impartial to all gaming and would have a clear head and would be rational about policing that forum.

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 03:19 PM
If there was going to be a "Game Mod", it would be better that that person not have a bias either way but was truly impartial to all gaming and would have a clear head and would be rational about policing that forum.

Speaking generally, the mods do a great job of being impartial in whatever they do. As previously mentioned, they can't read every post by themselves. I think you'd find that almost any bias exhibited by the mods would be rooted in disproportionate reporting of posts by people in the different camps. I don't mean to start a reporting war between the camps, but if it's primarily anti-Wii people doing the reporting (just as an example), you may see more pro-Wii posts being moderated.

jsw
Nov 15, 2006, 03:26 PM
Of course, the other option - and keep in mind that I have nothing to do with forum administration, so this is simply an observation - is to eliminate the non-Mac gaming threads entirely. If they become too time-consuming and problematic, it wouldn't surprise me to see that happen. The consoles have nothing to do with Apple, and the threads are allowed simply to try to satisfy member interests. That would allow the various fans to post on more dedicated forums.

Of course, that still leaves issues with Mac gaming (including gaming on Macs running Windows), but it would help.

I guess what I'm saying is that, if something is so problematic as to apparently require one (or more) dedicated moderators to keep things in line, it might be better to eliminate it.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 03:29 PM
But then it will bleed into the community forums and it will just annoy a bigger amount of members.

PlaceofDis
Nov 15, 2006, 03:46 PM
this thread is dying for examples.

i agree.
does the gaming forum need its own moderator? i doubt it.
could for the forums need one or two more mods in general, perhaps.

the report post button is the best way for things to be self-moderated really. use it often if you must. but it will help. there is a lot of activity on this site and its hard to take in everything, especially considering how many mods we do have, and that its their free time. its great of them to give themselves to the site and help out. but its not an easy task by any means. they do a great job. we can and should be helpin with the report post button.

jsw
Nov 15, 2006, 03:48 PM
But then it will bleed into the community forums and it will just annoy a bigger amount of members.
True, unless arn decides not to allow discussion of console games, in which case such threads would get Wastelanded, members would get warned, and it'd all be a big mess.

The best solution is to report bad posts within the Games forum, self-police to the extent possible, and try to make it so it's not considered to be a problem. I think that any forum which believes it requires a dedicated mod is probably one which needs some fixing instead.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 03:50 PM
I guess what I'm saying is that, if something is so problematic as to apparently require one (or more) dedicated moderators to keep things in line, it might be better to eliminate it.

I think that would be a bit draconian tbh. I'm a mac user foremost ('i'm sat at one every day working, and at one every evening relaxing / chilling) but I'm also an avid gamer.

A gaming regardles of format (mac/console/pc) section for 'mac users' is not a bad thing, I've said this before on the the gaming section regardless of differences in opinons - being mac users is the one thing they have in common.

Just banquishing the gaming section will leave a lot of users with no other choice but to go elsewhere. Not great for site traffic.

It would be like a department store removing the womens clothes section because patrons bickered over which clothing label was best. All that happens is they'd go elsewhere and the store loses a lot of its patrons..

Dagless
Nov 15, 2006, 03:58 PM
Sometimes I feel yourself and myself (and Oni too) are like 'peace activists' standing amongst a raging battlefield of hormones & insecurity - waving our little white flags trying to create order out of the chaos.

I'd hate to say it, but all 3 people mentioned above have shown fanboy sides in the past. More so Oni, less so you, MRU. Actually... why did you say Oni? He's a top guy but it's probably been less than a week since mentioning something about "Nintendo" and "Kiddy games".

If it does go ahead then picking a moderator for such a purpose would be difficult. One from each camp wouldn't work. That would just be messy. Though it feels fine the way it is. Good ol' Report Button.

jsw
Nov 15, 2006, 04:00 PM
It would be like a department store removing the womens clothes section because patrons bickered over which clothing label was best. All that happens is they'd go elsewhere and the store loses a lot of its patrons..
Um... OK. That would imply that those members are here primarily to post about console games. If that's the case, I'm not sure that the loss of said members would be a problem. If, in fact, they're primarily here because of an interest in Apple products, then they'd stay here and just wouldn't post about Nintendo/Sony/MS consoles.

I'm just saying this: things which are problematic have historically been dealt with without requiring new moderator positions. The political forums have post minimums and don't count towards post totals, the Market place is similar, etc. There are no other forums or sub-forums which require a separate moderator, and if this (primarily non-Apple-related) one does, I wouldn't count on getting a new mod as the solution to the problems, esp. as I can't see any mod, no matter who is picked, being seen as acceptable by all involved.

Lau
Nov 15, 2006, 04:06 PM
It would be like a department store removing the womens clothes section because patrons bickered over which clothing label was best. All that happens is they'd go elsewhere and the store loses a lot of its patrons..

I think it would be more like a department store having a playroom that the kids kept getting out of hand and bickering in and they decided to get rid of because it wasn't worth the effort, as all the adults were happily going about buying clothes. ;)

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 04:40 PM
edit.. damnation I deleted my post when I merged the two. I hope I remember exactly what I posted. I apologize in advance for any discrepancy. :rolleyes: :D

Um... OK. That would imply that those members are here primarily to post about console games. If that's the case, I'm not sure that the loss of said members would be a problem. If, in fact, they're primarily here because of an interest in Apple products, then they'd stay here and just wouldn't post about Nintendo/Sony/MS consoles.

Ok not what I meant. But say a poster spends 70% of their time in the gaming section. With that gone, they go to another site to discuss gaming, but there is a chance that they may never come back after a while. Whilst that may be a good or bad thing ;) it is a bad thing for site traffic...



I'm just saying this: things which are problematic have historically been dealt with without requiring new moderator positions. The political forums have post minimums and don't count towards post totals, the Market place is similar, etc. There are no other forums or sub-forums which require a separate moderator, and if this (primarily non-Apple-related) one does, I wouldn't count on getting a new mod as the solution to the problems, esp. as I can't see any mod, no matter who is picked, being seen as acceptable by all involved.

I agree I dont think a SPECIFIC moderator is needed, but maybe a moderator who generally has more interest and spends more time in gaming than one that merely dips in and out as duty requires.

I dont want this thread to turn into us against them mentality, all your mods work it appreciated.

I'm just agreeing with some of the issues raised by Abulia, and putting my viewpoint / perspective out there in the ether, and it's up to yourselves if you think it has any valid merit.


I think it would be more like a department store having a playroom that the kids kept getting out of hand and bickering in and they decided to get rid of because it wasn't worth the effort, as all the adults were happily going about buying clothes. ;)

Priceless... :D

But without the playroom to dump the children, the parents go down the road to the other store with creche facilitys. who wants to drag the kiddies around the grown up sections ;)



More so Oni, less so you, MRU. Actually... why did you say Oni? He's a top guy but it's probably been less than a week since mentioning something about "Nintendo" and "Kiddy games".

Because he's one of the few on the forum who though usually I guess we would think of as a Sony supporter, he actually has / will have all of the consoles. A lot of users in the section only have 1 and seem to base all opinion and negatives of opposing formats on the one they own, rather than from experience of all the formats.




-----

I think that almost to a tee what I lost ;)

Lord Blackadder
Nov 15, 2006, 04:56 PM
I think that any forum which believes it requires a dedicated mod is probably one which needs some fixing instead.

I agree.

I guess it comes down to the fact that people should report problems whenever they happen rather than letting a flamewar develop. If the mods get reports action will be taken.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 05:05 PM
I guess it comes down to the fact that people should report problems whenever they happen rather than letting a flamewar develop. If the mods get reports action will be taken.

I always use the report tool when i catch one in time, but there are times where your offline for a while (earning some pennies :) ) and in the interim period a flame war has broken out, so when you come back you feel damage has already been done, what is the point of reporting it at that stage.

as an analogy..

It's like catching someone planting a bomb (at that point I report straight away) , but if I come back after the bomb has gone off and people are picking up the pieces and battling over the subsequent mess , i dont see the point in reporting it at that stage..

maybe I should. Its just that theres usually some reasonable points from posters mixed in with the vitriol...

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 05:06 PM
Maybe if those certain members are banned for a day or 2 then maybe they might get the hint and behave.:)

bousozoku
Nov 15, 2006, 05:10 PM
This is probably the 10th thread on this subject and it seems that they're only posted after someone has gotten slammed by someone else.

Unfortunately, people seem to be so enthusiastically defending their platform that they don't consider reporting or walking away.

It's been mentioned that no moderator responds or they rarely respond to reports. In the year that I was a moderator, I would say that there were 15 reports from the Games forum and those were mostly where someone started a flamefest and reported it when it got too hot for them.

The only time I found real problems was when I was reading the forum threads because I was seeing it without bias.

Perhaps, the forum should be closed temporarily and all gaming threads in other parts of MacRumors should be deleted when created. It would probably be a good idea to limit gaming threads to Mac OS X or Windows.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 05:17 PM
Perhaps, the forum should be closed temporarily and all gaming threads in other parts of MacRumors should be deleted when created. It would probably be a good idea to limit gaming threads to Mac OS X or Windows.

That would be re-active stance rather than pro-active.

Where do you draw the line. Close down community threads because they aren't mac based topics ? Close down music discussion ? In fact why allow windows discussion, this is a mac forum....

I think thats a tightrope your walking on if you do that and it doesnt benefit anyone, and censorship on that scale is totaly draconian.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 05:19 PM
The difference is that people in the community threads get along and don't have flame wars.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 05:23 PM
True, but put it this way. To close down the gaming section completely, and then close down any thread that even mentions or brings up gaming, is going to require a lot more moderating and time that just appointing an extra mod or two too keep any eye on that section.

Its a complete dichotomy. We dont want to mod more than we have to, but we'll close down the section and in future we will keep an eye on every post and erase / close any threads that start discussion on that subject, which means we will end up moderating a lot more.. :confused:

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 05:26 PM
Just make the games forums like the political forums, no post counts.

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 05:34 PM
I always use the report tool when i catch one in time, but there are times where your offline for a while (earning some pennies :) ) and in the interim period a flame war has broken out, so when you come back you feel damage has already been done, what is the point of reporting it at that stage.

Because at a minimum, reporting it later can get the flame war stopped. Yes, it's best to stop it early, but later is better than not at all. And it alerts the mods to the degree of the problem and points out potential problem posters to them.

The mods have said many times that they'd rather have too many post reports than too few.

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 05:42 PM
But I dislike how moderators (who give up their own time to sort the forum out) get hassle for asking us, as the users of the forum, to help out by reporting posts. They really can't be expected to read every thread.
Hence the request to have a moderator who represents/visits the games forum on a regular basis.

A forum is like a community. It has ebbs and flows. When you read a particular forum and someone posts the 10th anti-PS3 thread within two days it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see where it's going to go. Also, someone who is familiar with the regular posters and knows "who the troublemakers are." (I've no idea if the moderators keep a private "tick sheet" of offenders.)

It's something I think would be good for the whole forum, although it seems the Games forum has more problems than the others, and it's because of this bickering I tend to stay clear.
Gee...it almost sounds like having a moderator that visits the Games forum and helps keep things orderly might be a good idea... Perhaps I should mention that sometime...again.

;)
A mod to delete posts like as soon as they are spotted, that would stop that as it keeps the thread on topic. Closing your eyes and making loud noises doesnt make the trolls go away. A more pro-active rather than re-active stance, albeit that uses commonsense.
MRU gets it.

I dont think this request for more moderation on the gamer section should be seen as a 'complaining against the mods' stance. Mods do a great job and their help is appreciated by many, we know its a voluntary position and have utter most respect for that. Asking for a little extra help isn't a bad thing.
Agreed. Yet by asking for perhaps more moderation or at least a moderator who frequents/is familiar with the forum in question is apparently be viewed as "hassling" the moderators.

I've no axe to grind here with the moderators (I've never been on their bad side) but if I knew the turn this discussion was going to take I'm not sure I would have posted it, in hindsight.

I guess what I'm saying is that, if something is so problematic as to apparently require one (or more) dedicated moderators to keep things in line, it might be better to eliminate it.
Wow. Just...wow.
I think that any forum which believes it requires a dedicated mod is probably one which needs some fixing instead.
Okay, for the third time since it's been missed we're not asking for a "dedicated" mod. We're asking for a moderator who reads/visits the forum in question with some regularity and can do some pro-active moderation.

And for the statement that there couldn't possibly be anyone who could do the job and remain objective, I can think of at least three people who I'd personally have no problem with being a mod, and I rarely agree with them.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 05:43 PM
Because at a minimum, reporting it later can get the flame war stopped. Yes, it's best to stop it early, but later is better than not at all. And it alerts the mods to the degree of the problem and points out potential problem posters to them.

The mods have said many times that they'd rather have too many post reports than too few.

Fair enough.. But I never heard a mod say that - but if thats the general opinion then I dont mind posting more reports.

Doctor Q
Nov 15, 2006, 05:50 PM
The difference is that people in the community threads get along and don't have flame wars.If they do, we move it to the Games forum! :D ;)
Fair enough.. But I never heard a mod say that - but if thats the general opinion then I dont mind posting more reports.We welcome reports of any and all rules violations and certainly prefer that to having people make posts in threads to complain that other posts are against the rules, because they may not come to our attention and because they take threads off-topic.

If somebody is frequently misjudging the rules or often reporting posts that did not in fact need to come to our attention, we'd let them know.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 05:54 PM
If they do, we move it to the Games forum! :D ;)


LOL.... is the games section the MR prison ? :D

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 05:55 PM
This is probably the 10th thread on this subject and it seems that they're only posted after someone has gotten slammed by someone else.
Really? I didn't know that. Were the others so quickly dismissed as well?

Perhaps, the forum should be closed temporarily and all gaming threads in other parts of MacRumors should be deleted when created. It would probably be a good idea to limit gaming threads to Mac OS X or Windows.
Battlefield triage! I love it! Can't/don't want to try to solve the problem? Cut if off! :D

In all seriousness, I don't see this as viable. Thread drift will happen and I don't think anyone want a draconian policy of what can and can not be spoken about. MacRumors is a global community that covers a wide range of topics, including gaming, and that's party why people come to visit. Sure, there are other places to discuss gaming but not with fellow Mac users.

What I find interesting is on one side there's apparently no problem, on the other side the argument seems to be one of "well then, let's kill it." Do nothing and "kill it" are two very extreme responses.

What I was originally asking for was something in the middle.

Something more...moderate. :)

PlaceofDis
Nov 15, 2006, 05:55 PM
That would be re-active stance rather than pro-active.

Where do you draw the line. Close down community threads because they aren't mac based topics ? Close down music discussion ? In fact why allow windows discussion, this is a mac forum....

I think thats a tightrope your walking on if you do that and it doesnt benefit anyone, and censorship on that scale is totaly draconian.

he did say temp. remember that the political forums were shut down when things got to hot. perhaps closing the gaming forum until after the big shopping season would work. it would stop the flame wars and fighting.

me i don't think its necessary as i don't think there are all that much fighting. i just think people get worked up a bit too much over things and over react.

bousozoku
Nov 15, 2006, 05:56 PM
That would be re-active stance rather than pro-active.

Where do you draw the line. Close down community threads because they aren't mac based topics ? Close down music discussion ? In fact why allow windows discussion, this is a mac forum....

I think thats a tightrope your walking on if you do that and it doesnt benefit anyone, and censorship on that scale is totaly draconian.

Community Discussion works pretty well since Marketplace threads were removed from it.

There aren't a whole lot of problems outside Games and Marketplace and there are enough responsible individuals outside of those forums that problems are reported regularly.

These are private forums and one person's censorship is another person's peace and quiet. The forums are well-moderated and mostly visited by grown ups of all ages. The other solution is to ban troublemakers in the Games forum at the next offence of any kind in that forum.

I might be willing to go back to being a moderator, just to clean up the Games forum.

Really? I didn't know that. Were the others so quickly dismissed as well?
...


It's been discussed to death. A few people in the Games forum need to change. Pending that, time to think might give them the push.

thedude110
Nov 15, 2006, 06:12 PM
Really? I didn't know that. Were the others so quickly dismissed as well?



We're working our way down page 3 of this thread and I'm still waiting for someone to produce evidence of a problem.

On the first page of the Games forum I see one potential duplicate (So, Who's Camping for the Wii and Lining up for the Wii)-- that's it. I see a lot more repetition on the front page of the Buying Tips forum (and that's not a complaint -- I really don't care how many threads we have about black Friday).

If there's a problem, then please, someone show the extent of it. Otherwise this thread is an Everest of a molehill.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 06:16 PM
The forums are well-moderated and mostly visited by grown ups of all ages. The other solution is to ban troublemakers in the Games forum at the next offence of any kind in that forum.

I made that point earlier ;)

Doesn't seem to happen in the other sections, maybe because the games forum tends to attract a younger less mature audience.

As for banning, well I think a yellow card system is a good idea, first or second offence - poster is given a warning and if not respected and they re-offend shortly after - a time out. If they are constantly repeat offending despite warnings and time-outs and show contempt then this may lead to a more permanent ban.

I might be willing to go back to being a moderator, just to clean up the Games forum.]

you wont hear me objecting - as this is thread was a plee for more moderators to do so would be hypocracy of the highest order ;) :)

Eraserhead
Nov 15, 2006, 06:26 PM
I'm just saying this: things which are problematic have historically been dealt with without requiring new moderator positions. The political forums have post minimums and don't count towards post totals, the Market place is similar, etc. There are no other forums or sub-forums which require a separate moderator, and if this (primarily non-Apple-related) one does, I wouldn't count on getting a new mod as the solution to the problems, esp. as I can't see any mod, no matter who is picked, being seen as acceptable by all involved.

jsw as you mentioned the Political/Marketplace forums. Why not just have a minimum post count for the Gaming forum if it's a problem?

jsw
Nov 15, 2006, 06:39 PM
jsw as you mentioned the Political/Marketplace forums. Why not just have a minimum post count for the Gaming forum if it's a problem?
That'd be fine by me, but, fortunately, I have no authority to do that, or else I'd set it at, oh, 25000 posts. ;)

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 06:39 PM
If there's a problem, then please, someone show the extent of it. Otherwise this thread is an Everest of a molehill.
Since you brought it up, I'll indulge you.

Wii camping threads (or how to get one), first page as of 5:18 MST.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=250324

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=251851

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=239965

Page 2

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=251662


PS3 camping threads (I expect these to pick up tomorrow, big time)

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252265

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=251483

DVD-Wii

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=251754

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252005

Ever-popular "Will WoW run on..." WoW benchmark threads

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=247657

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=250962

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252250
(moderated to http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252247)

On some of these I went two pages because traffic flows by pretty quick. Page two is, often, only a day old. So yes, some of these threads come up daily.

Please don't ask me to sift through individual threads for the ad hominem attacks, borderline insults, and the typical day-to-day bile that gets handed about. I just don't have that kind of time. Sure, some days are better than others. I try to report the threadcrappers, for example.

bousozoku
Nov 15, 2006, 06:40 PM
I made that point earlier ;)
...
you wont hear me objecting - as this is thread was a plee for more moderators to do so would be hypocracy of the highest order ;) :)

You said "younger less mature" but I was trying to stress that the age doesn't matter--it's the maturity that's lacking. I'd say that those 18 and under are probably more mature but it's the 20-30 year old crowd that's the most enthusiastic. Yeah, that's it, enthusiastic.

As they say, be careful what you wish, you just might get it. :D

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 06:45 PM
Since you brought it up, I'll indulge you.

Okay, you've shown a bunch of duplicate threads (which do happen in all parts of the forums). Did anybody report these as duplicate threads and provide a link for the mods to see where a recent thread on the topic is? Did anybody post in the thread (the earlier the better) that the topic was already being discussed elsewhere? These are problems that are routinely handled elsewhere in the forums, so I can only imagine that the reason they aren't being handled in the Games forum is because nobody's taking the time to report them.

MacRumorUser
Nov 15, 2006, 06:46 PM
As they say, be careful what you wish, you just might get it. :D

oo will indiana jones be waiting for me tonight then ;) :D

edit .. i'll settle for christopher meloni :p

Abulia
Nov 15, 2006, 06:47 PM
Okay, you've shown a bunch of duplicate threads (which do happen in all parts of the forums). Did anybody report these as duplicate threads and provide a link for the mods to see where a recent thread on the topic is? Did anybody post in the thread (the earlier the better) that the topic was already being discussed elsewhere? These are problems that are routinely handled elsewhere in the forums, so I can only imagine that the reason they aren't being handled in the Games forum is because nobody's taking the time to report them.
I don't know. Did anyone? I'm not a moderator so I can't answer that, sadly.

Or is your question directed solely at me as my responsiblity to moderate the Games fora through reporting? Because I do report threads.

As they say, be careful what you wish, you just might get it. :DAgain, not asking for a sherrif or a cop dedicated for the Games fora, just that it would be nice to have a moderator who was familiar with that fora, the people, the hot topics, etc.

My intent was not to ask for someone to swing by and mote justice and policy through the liberal use of the ban button.

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 06:56 PM
I don't know. Did anyone? I'm not a moderator so I can't answer that, sadly.

Or is your question directed solely at me as my responsiblity to moderate the Games fora through reporting? Because I do report threads.

It's a general question to those who have issues with the way things are moderated in the forums. So yes, in a way it is directed at you. But it's also directed at anyone else who saw these threads. And yes, it's also directed at the mods. It is not your responsibility alone, but it is in part if you want a pleasant forum experience.

I'm just trying to get at the crux of the matter, which is that the mods can't be everywhere all the time and they rely on others to point them to the problems. You say you do that, and that's great...we obviously need more people like you in the Games forum. The current staffing of mods is fine, as far as I can tell, but they need the help of the users to do their jobs. There are over 3,000,000 posts on this site now, with 100,000 of them in the Games forum...no one can keep up with it all by themselves.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 10:42 PM
I hate to say it but this thread is looking like the bickering that was mentioned in the games thread.:rolleyes:

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 15, 2006, 10:59 PM
It's a general question to those who have issues with the way things are moderated in the forums. So yes, in a way it is directed at you. But it's also directed at anyone else who saw these threads. And yes, it's also directed at the mods. It is not your responsibility alone, but it is in part if you want a pleasant forum experience.

Most posts reported in the Games section are actually reported by you WildCowboy. And no, no one reported those particular threads quoted above. And with the exception of the wii dvd playback threads none of those are truly duplicates, just on the same rough subject. So yes this is mountains out of mole hills in this mod's opinion.

WildCowboy
Nov 15, 2006, 11:03 PM
Most posts reported in the Games section are actually reported by you WildCowboy.

Then that's a big source of the problem...nobody in there is really reporting much. I don't hang out in the Games forum, so almost everything I catch is because I see a dupe I recognize pop up in New Posts or Forum Spy. I'm not in there reporting on the content of the threads.

atszyman
Nov 15, 2006, 11:29 PM
he did say temp. remember that the political forums were shut down when things got to hot. perhaps closing the gaming forum until after the big shopping season would work. it would stop the flame wars and fighting.

me i don't think its necessary as i don't think there are all that much fighting. i just think people get worked up a bit too much over things and over react.

Yes, I remember that time well, right after Bush won the second time... and then I was locked out until I could manage 100 posts...

Seeing as this weekend is the release of the PS3/Wii I would expect things to die down within the next few weeks as people get their consoles and start playing them and forming real opinions based on playing rather than simply reading a spec sheet and talking about how their preferred console is best based on an arbitrary selection of specifications.

Unfortunately to do a shutdown of the games forums because of the console war would really only punish the Mac gamers trying to talk about and get help for the few Mac games that there are. If there were an easy way to put a moratorium on console threads for the next 3 weeks we'd probably manage to avoid what is probably going to be peak season for "my console pwns your console because..." threads.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 11:34 PM
Since I don't follow the gaming threads all that often, has this been a long term problem or is this just within the past year.

bousozoku
Nov 15, 2006, 11:39 PM
Since I don't follow the gaming threads all that often, has this been a long term problem or is this just within the past year.

It's been a long term problem. Consider that I haven't been a moderator since around February and it was a problem before I started about a year earlier.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 11:41 PM
So if it hasn't gotten better in a few years what's the point in even trying. Just shut it down and not worry about it anymore.

Just turn it into "computer games" and leave the consoles out and have them find another place to fight.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 15, 2006, 11:44 PM
So if it hasn't gotten better in a few years what's the point in even trying. Just shut it down and not worry about it anymore.

we must stay the course... wait what are we talking about now?

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 11:49 PM
we must stay the course... wait what are we talking about now?Who knows anymore, this thread has turned into a bicker of its own. If they can't police themselves like the rest of the forums can why bother trying to change it if they don't want to help out. While I think some new Moderators would be a good thing to help out on the site as a whole, it is getting pointless to try and fix what might be to far gone in the gaming area.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 15, 2006, 11:55 PM
...it is getting pointless to try and fix what might be to far gone in the gaming area.

Its really not as bad as they would have you believe. The issues they bring up are present in all the forum sections. Some folks are just strung tighter than others. As I mentioned before, problems usually arise when people start claiming others are being biased, and even these types of conflicts rarely escalate into something that violates any rules.

I have long been in favor of killing the politics forum due to issues, but the games forum isn't anywhere near that bad.

MacNut
Nov 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
Yes, nothing good comes from the political forums.

spicyapple
Nov 16, 2006, 12:00 AM
Yes, nothing good comes from the political forums.
Believe it or not, I get most of my political news from MR when I chance to visit the sub-forum directly. It's a good source of filtered news with biased left-wing commentary. :)

Gaming forum? Meh. Not too interested in game talk. Y'all should ban the lot.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 12:04 AM
Believe it or not, I get most of my political news from MR when I chance to visit the sub-forum directly. It's a good source of filtered news with biased left-wing commentary. :)

Gaming forum? Meh. Not too interested in game talk. Y'all should ban the lot.ok a little of topic, what's the ribbon for? did I miss the memo.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 12:05 AM
ok a little off topic, what's the ribbon for? did I miss the memo.

Try mousing over it ;)

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 12:07 AM
Try mousing over it ;)i did and it does nothing.
......oh ok congrats.:)

spicyapple
Nov 16, 2006, 12:09 AM
ok a little of topic, what's the ribbon for? did I miss the memo.

I'm special. :D (no, not "special needs")

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 12:10 AM
i did and it does nothing.
......oh ok

:D

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 12:12 AM
:D classic.

bousozoku
Nov 16, 2006, 12:51 AM
Its really not as bad as they would have you believe. The issues they bring up are present in all the forum sections. Some folks are just strung tighter than others. As I mentioned before, problems usually arise when people start claiming others are being biased, and even these types of conflicts rarely escalate into something that violates any rules.

I have long been in favor of killing the politics forum due to issues, but the games forum isn't anywhere near that bad.

You really think that the political forum is worse? It hasn't been that bad for a while but there were some huge knock-down-drag-outs at times.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 12:55 AM
You really think that the political forum is worse? It hasn't been that bad for a while but there were some huge knock-down-drag-outs at times.

It has certainly gotten more manageable lately, but my main point was that the Game section really doesn't seem all that bad to me. Certainly not worse than the traditionally bad Politics section.

Eraserhead
Nov 16, 2006, 03:55 AM
That'd be fine by me, but, fortunately, I have no authority to do that, or else I'd set it at, oh, 25000 posts. ;)

So in a few month's it could be renamed the madjew talking to himself board? ;)

spicyapple
Nov 16, 2006, 04:01 AM
So in a few month's it could be renamed the madjew talking to himself board? ;)
How abouts it be called the "mad jew goes to Coventry" forum? :)

mad jew
Nov 16, 2006, 04:02 AM
There is nothing wrong with the Games forum. All you have to do is avoid it, and you'll all be fine. :)

Was anyone listening or was I just talking to myself?

Abulia
Nov 16, 2006, 10:09 AM
I find it telling that most of the people calling for closing down the Games forum are -- unsurprisingly -- not contributors to that area at all.
I hate to say it but this thread is looking like the bickering that was mentioned in the games thread.:rolleyes:
The irony of the situation hasn't been lost on me, either. :)

Eraserhead
Nov 16, 2006, 10:21 AM
How abouts it be called the "mad jew goes to Coventry" forum? :)

Sounds interesting, I wonder if he'd return alive ;)

Though I did today, Warwick Campus is technically in Coventry

EDIT: Sorry for being responsible for totally taking the thread off topic :o

Abulia
Nov 16, 2006, 10:27 AM
This thread has drifted quite a bit so I'd like to take a moment to re-center it. Mostly I'm disappointed in how this thread has been misrepresented as a call for a dedicated moderator or that the Games fora requires some seemingly huge investment of time and energy to "correct."

That is not the case.

My original -- and current intent -- is to simply ask that the Games fora receive more pro-active moderation, preferably through the actions of a moderator who is familiar with that area and its posters. Someone who knows "who the troublemakers are," knows what the hot topics are, and reads/contributes to that area on a regular basis and is familiar with that micro-community.

This could either be an existing moderator -- I've no idea if any on the current staff frequent the Games fora; my gut reaction is "no" -- or a new moderator. Or perhaps a new moderator at a later date due to attrition. At that time, prior to refilling the position, consider a moderator who has the experience I've just outlined.

There are a number of persons that I can easily think of, off the top of my head, who would do an admirable job in this position. Regardless of what you may think of the Games fora, there are a number of intelligent and mature posters in that area that could help with oversight.

Talk of closing the Games fora is not constructive, in my opinion. It simply bespeaks of "giving up" on the fora or having an axe to grind. Certainly there are more important uses of resources on MR rather than discussing games? Things like politics, the latest movies, digital photography, or the evils of the Zune for example?

To bring this back around full-circle I think all that the Games fora needs is some visibility with a moderator and some handholding. I believe that the common, unspoken impression in that fora is one of "the mods aren't watching." Thus, it engenders a style of duplication, threadcrapping, and general disruptive behavior knowing that a) a mod likely won't see it and b) hardly anyone bothers to report a thread. Just this morning I reported a threadcrapping from one of our most notorious posters in the Games fora.

Having a moderator step into a thread and say "XXX, we don't value inappropriate posts like this here on MR. Your post was nothing more than trying to incite an argument and had no content. Please refrain from doing so again" would do wonders in the fora. As soon as people know they are being watched behaviors will change and they'll start becoming part of the solution, reporting threads, rather than the problem.

Habitual offenders don't need a ban, a simple suspension of the fora would suffice. "XXX, clearly this is a hot topic for you. I'm going to ask you to refrain from posting in these types of threads for the next week to cool off." If they're unwilling to change then revoke their posting privileges to the Games fora for a temporary or permanent basis.

I don't believe that banning or any heavy-handed moderation is required, nor is the Games fora some "hive of scum and villainy" that would take an inordinate amount of time to moderate.

Just some personal attention.

Thank you,

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 12:29 PM
Why should we treat that forum like a kindergarden class while every other forum handles itself without needing adult supervision. I don't see how it can't police itself first then ask for help, If its only a few members causing the problems why not just weed them out of the system. Since closing the forum probably won't happen then I would suggest a 1 week cool down, it has been brought up before and if it helped the PF, also why not set a 100 post limit on the GF.

p.s. i would start the cool down at 12:00 am Friday morning and let it go a week.

one more thing... why not make it a site wide 100 post minimum for any threads other then mac related, that would cut down on the spam in the community and would force Mac related topics for all new members.

bousozoku
Nov 16, 2006, 01:57 PM
I find it telling that most of the people calling for closing down the Games forum are -- unsurprisingly -- not contributors to that area at all.
...


I stopped posting in the Games forum when I realised that it was almost impossible to have a discussion.

Why should we treat that forum like a kindergarden class while every other forum handles itself without needing adult supervision. I don't see how it can't police itself first then ask for help, If its only a few members causing the problems why not just weed them out of the system. Since closing the forum probably won't happen then I would suggest a 1 week cool down, it has been brought up before and if it helped the PF, also why not set a 100 post limit on the GF.

p.s. i would start the cool down at 12:00 am Friday morning and let it go a week.

one more thing... why not make it a site wide 100 post minimum for any threads other then mac related, that would cut down on the spam in the community and would force Mac related topics for all new members.

You could hope to get rid of the troublemakers but in the past, almost no one reports them unless they (or their platform) have been insulted. They're mostly emotionally-charged and too busy insulting some other platform or defending their own to take the time to report something. Of course, this happens in a news thread once or twice a year instead of once or twice a week but generally, someone starts to read and reports the problem in news threads.

Maybe, it's time for someone to watch them intensely, as they want, and clean house. :D

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 02:01 PM
I would have no problem volunteering to clean house, just give me a vacuum and some disinfectant.:cool:

I think rather then a moderator there should be a sherif that will set down the law and start rounding up suspects, kinda like Dirty Harry.

WildCowboy
Nov 16, 2006, 02:15 PM
I think rather then a moderator there should be a sherif that will set down the law and start rounding up suspects, kinda like Dirty Harry.

<Harry Callahan>

I know what you're thinking. "Did he ban six posters or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a Quad Core Mac Pro, the most powerful Mac in the world, and would blow your iBook away, you've got to ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

</Harry Callahan>

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
<Harry Callahan>

I know what you're thinking. "Did he ban six posters or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a Quad Core Mac Pro, the most powerful Mac in the world, and would blow your iBook away, you've got to ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

</Harry Callahan>If you thought the kill rate was high in GTA wait till you meet the "gaming sherif"

Blue Velvet
Nov 16, 2006, 02:31 PM
...and clean house. :D



http://ortf1.free.fr/41/dirty_harry.jpg

Flowbee
Nov 16, 2006, 02:40 PM
Why should we treat that forum like a kindergarden class while every other forum handles itself without needing adult supervision.

Actually, the moderators *do* provide "adult supervision" to the other forums. I think the point is that the moderators spend more time reading and posting to the other forums, and, because of this, they "clean up" those forums more proactively. Because we rarely see a moderator participating in any games discussion, it's assumed that they don't read those threads as actively, and aren't aware of problems unless they are reported.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the moderators spend a little more time scanning the games forum to help keep up with what's going on in there.

WildCowboy
Nov 16, 2006, 02:44 PM
Actually, the moderators *do* provide "adult supervision" to the other forums. I think the point is that the moderators spend more time reading and posting to the other forums, and, because of this, they "clean up" those forums more proactively. Because we rarely see a moderator participating in any games discussion, it's assumed that they don't read those threads as actively, and aren't aware of problems unless they are reported.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the moderators spend a little more time scanning the games forum to help keep up with what's going on in there.

To be honest, I don't really think the mods spend all that much time providing "adult supervision" in the regular forums. (Certainly, any mods are welcome to weigh in on this and correct me if I'm wrong.) They just don't have the time to scan through all the threads as their being posted. I'd be willing to bet money that the vast majority of moderation gets done through reports, not through mods scanning on their own.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 02:45 PM
But I think that members control themselves better in the other forums so as not to need such harsh moderation but more of a post clean up.

What I think the game section needs is the fear of god in them so that they wont flame or start petty fights.

Everyone walked all over the substitute teacher in school but if that teacher carried a big stick they would behave.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 02:57 PM
Just because we don't post in certain forums doesn't mean that we don't read them regularly. Many of us started posting a lot less when we became mods, but we still frequent the forums just as much (if not more so).

Most moderation does happen as a result of reports, but this is because reports typically come pouring in so much faster than we can read (thousands of eyes are faster than my pair on their own).

We could rule the Games section with a firmer hand if that was wanted, but we try to do as little moderation as possible and I think the community usually appreciates this. We don't want to be the thought police. Since many of the most prolific games posters (and people in this thread) are the ones I usually notice as trouble makers, I don't think people would like the results of a firmer hand.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 03:01 PM
Lemon, in your opinion would some extra Mods be a good thing or is it not needed at this time.

Abulia
Nov 16, 2006, 03:05 PM
You could hope to get rid of the troublemakers but in the past, almost no one reports them unless they (or their platform) have been insulted.Interesting to note that I reported a thread this morning for some very obvious threadcrapping. Five hours later that thread has yet to be moderated.

No mods have been on within five hours? Why report things when nothing is done?
Maybe, it's time for someone to watch them intensely, as they want, and clean house. :DNo doubt that person is you? :rolleyes:
Actually, the moderators *do* provide "adult supervision" to the other forums. I think the point is that the moderators spend more time reading and posting to the other forums, and, because of this, they "clean up" those forums more proactively. Because we rarely see a moderator participating in any games discussion, it's assumed that they don't read those threads as actively, and aren't aware of problems unless they are reported.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that the moderators spend a little more time scanning the games forum to help keep up with what's going on in there.
Thank you for gleaning the gist of what I was trying to convey and articulating it so well.

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 03:16 PM
Lemon, in your opinion would some extra Mods be a good thing or is it not needed at this time.

We have so many mods right now that we are often tripping over each other (responding to the same issue at the same time). That said there is a parallel conversation occurring right now in the mod forum about this, so it is being discussed. We maintain a running conversation on people who have noted are reliable reporters and might make good mods. And just as I have noted before that some people in this thread are habitual trouble makers, others are likely mods. Lately when we have taken on new mods it has been because we are trying to fill a a time zone gap.

To some it up I don't think we need a new mod right now, but we have people in mind when the need arises, and the most likely candidates would probably fill a time gap rather than a forum gap (as i don't see that one truly exists).

Interesting to note that I reported a thread this morning for some very obvious threadcrapping. Five hours later that thread has yet to be moderated.

No mods have been on within five hours? Why report things when nothing is done?


The post in question is this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3060615#post3060615) in case anyone was wondering. I think it serves as a good example of the non-issue and the thin-skin of some of the people complaining.

We won't censor someone just because they articulate a dislike for a game you like. In fact the comment spurred a conversation on the appeal of the game that does not seem at all inappropriate for the game forum. In fact I think this is exactly the kind of conversation people would want to see - a discussion on the quality and appeal of a forthcoming game.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 03:21 PM
The post in question is this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3060615#post3060615) in case anyone was wondering. I think it serves as a good example of the non-issue and the thin-skin of some of the people complaining.wait....that was a reported post? Im not a moderator but I don't see any infraction in that post, nothing that warrants punishment.

So what this comes down to is "You hurt my feelings so Im gonna report you" isn't that playground tattle tactics?

Doctor Q
Nov 16, 2006, 03:31 PM
No mods have been on within five hours? Why report things when nothing is done?Every post report is investigated, and that's been true for every single post report (many thousands of them) since I've been here. Almost all reports are looked at promptly, including the one mentioned above.

The assumption that visible moderator action should always be the result is incorrect. Some reports are judged not to be problems, or not serious enough to warrant action unless the problem continues, and warnings, when given, are sent privately.

bousozoku
Nov 16, 2006, 03:35 PM
Interesting to note that I reported a thread this morning for some very obvious threadcrapping. Five hours later that thread has yet to be moderated.

No mods have been on within five hours? Why report things when nothing is done?
No doubt that person is you? :rolleyes:
...

Why report that? There was nothing wrong with it.

I'm already trained, so why shouldn't I, unless what you really want is someone to protect you and your buddies only? Moderators aren't allowed to play favourites but it sounds as if you only want forum moderation when you're not the one being moderated.


...
The post in question is this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3060615#post3060615) in case anyone was wondering. I think it serves as a good example of the non-issue and the thin-skin of some of the people complaining.
...

I certainly don't see anything wrong with it.

wait....that was a reported post? Im not a moderator but I don't see any infraction in that post, nothing that warrants punishment.

So what this comes down to is "You hurt my feelings so Im gonna report you" isn't that playground tattle tactics?

We've had a few of those from certain people but usually, they learn not to do that. Too bad there isn't a "false reporting" offence. ;)

Lau
Nov 16, 2006, 03:38 PM
The post in question is this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3060615#post3060615) in case anyone was wondering. I think it serves as a good example of the non-issue and the thin-skin of some of the people complaining.

Blimey, yes. I suspect part of the problem is a small core of people who post in the Gaming forum a lot, and so manage to rub each other the wrong way very easily. I know there's the odd poster that pretty much every post of theirs annoys the piss out of me, and I think that's what's happening here because of everyone posting and everyone having such strong feelings about the console they prefer — it's all just got a bit close for comfort.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 03:41 PM
I think the people that were complaining about the lack of Moderation should apologize to all the mods for what is nothing more then "why aren't you paying attention to me" I think the gamers in there that are making false reports should really think if its offensive or just not what you want to hear.

srf4real
Nov 16, 2006, 03:44 PM
I think that reported post was hilarious, then I realised that is really what happens in the game.:confused:

anyways, a sense of humor could go a long ways in saving a mod's time...:)

AmbitiousLemon
Nov 16, 2006, 03:46 PM
Since you guys seem to have enjoyed that example here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3053586#post3053586) is another reported post we discussed and decided no action was necessary.

Apparently the reporter felt this was inflaming a console war.

MacNut
Nov 16, 2006, 03:50 PM
Since you guys seem to have enjoyed that example here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3053586#post3053586) is another reported post we discussed and decided no action was necessary.

Apparently the reporter felt this was inflaming a console war.wait, what...are you sure you sent the right post?

I would love to see the "worst" reported post hall of fame.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Nov 16, 2006, 04:28 PM
Ok, after seeing this discussion, and the examples of reported posts, and getting a feel for the general tone of the Games forum, here's another vote for just shutting the thing down. More trouble than worth, IMO.

I've posted maybe a handful times in that forum, and will not miss it, at all.

Doctor Q
Nov 16, 2006, 04:31 PM
Here is a post that should have been reported for being off-topic.

zap2
Nov 16, 2006, 04:38 PM
I've posted maybe a handful times in that forum, and will not miss it, at all.

Thats stupid...I don't post in some forums....but I don't want them shut down.

The game forums are great, and in no way should be axed

Doctor Q
Nov 16, 2006, 04:44 PM
Thats stupid...I don't post in some forums....but I don't want them shut down.

The game forums are great, and in no way should be axedDon't worry. We don't think that type of drastic action is necessary. It's worth airing the issues, and discussing the type and level of moderation that's appropriate, but as AmbitiousLemon said we don't think major changes are required.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Nov 16, 2006, 05:18 PM
Thats stupid...I don't post in some forums....but I don't want them shut down.I didn't say I wanted it shut down because I don't post there. There's a lot of forums here I rarely go into. I wanted it shut down because of the bad atmosphere and childish bickering... :rolleyes:

MacRumorUser
Nov 16, 2006, 06:44 PM
wait....that was a reported post? Im not a moderator but I don't see any infraction in that post, nothing that warrants punishment.

So what this comes down to is "You hurt my feelings so Im gonna report you" isn't that playground tattle tactics?

Yeah why was that reported ? :confused:

We won't censor someone just because they articulate a dislike for a game you like. In fact the comment spurred a conversation on the appeal of the game that does not seem at all inappropriate for the game forum. In fact I think this is exactly the kind of conversation people would want to see - a discussion on the quality and appeal of a forthcoming game.

yep exactly. It's just not Oni's cup of tea I knew that when reading his post he was being witty not offensive to me. Hence I went on to explain why It appealed to me. Strange...

Markleshark
Nov 17, 2006, 11:52 AM
Believe it or not, I get most of my political news from MR when I chance to visit the sub-forum directly. It's a good source of filtered news with biased left-wing commentary. :)

You know, I don't think ive laughed as much in a long time. Kudos.

Yeah, so you get Gaming Bicker in the Game forum, its what being a Gamer is all about. Leave it alone.

Good job your doing Mods, Admins, etc. Don't fix something thats not broken. ;)

Abulia
Nov 17, 2006, 12:50 PM
The post in question is this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3060615#post3060615) in case anyone was wondering. I think it serves as a good example of the non-issue and the thin-skin of some of the people complaining.
"Some of the people complaining" being me, I suppose. Your agreement or disagreement with my reporting that aside, how is the post in question considered relevant?

It adds nothing to the conversation, it only belittles those who do want to discuss the topic at hand, and only further incites hostility.
We won't censor someone just because they articulate a dislike for a game you like.
I find this offensive: the presumption on your part that just because someone reports something, it (the comment) offends them or just happens to be against a position they favor.

Case in point, I own a 360, hence I read the 360 threads. Thus, if I report a thread there is a high correlation that said post will be in a 360 thread. That does not mean I am attempting to stamp out or censor anti-360 sentiments.

Yet that is exactly what you are purporting.

In any event, I consider it a moot point. Since the post in question (linked above) isn't a concern then clearly I am off base here.

I respectfully rescind my request and ask that this thread be closed. Clearly there is no issue here and I apologize for the spirited -- yet apparently unwarranted -- discussion that followed.

Frankly, I feel more than a little beat up over a thread that I started with the only intent to try to better the MR community. Instead I feel belittled and my position marginalized simply because my outlook "is different."

If the linked post above is considered acceptable community standards around MR then I can only accept that is by design. Surprisingly while that inflammatory post remains I had one of my own posts moderated today; a very light-hearted post with two other MR users over what constitutes "next-gen" and it was all in fun.

If the intent was to send me a very strong message it, in fact, worked.

Thank you all for your comments,

MacNut
Nov 17, 2006, 01:07 PM
It was relevant because it was an opinion, a lot of things people say I might not agree with but doesn't mean it should be censored.

Eraserhead
Nov 17, 2006, 01:25 PM
Here is a post that should have been reported for being off-topic.

Why does that seem to point to itself :confused:

WildCowboy
Nov 17, 2006, 01:36 PM
Why does that seem to point to itself :confused:

That's the "point"...it's an off-topic post calling itself out for being off-topic.

savar
Nov 17, 2006, 01:40 PM
Sadly, true. They're also more prone to starting the flamewars, IMO and the duplicate threads.

Don't get me wrong: we all get hot under the collar. The Games forum just does it more often and easier, I've found.

Agreed, the games forum has a different tone from the rest of the site. Part of the reason I like this site so much is because its well-moderated and the site is kept relatively free of junk -- like those infamous 80,000 square pixel signatures that I see in most other forums, or red text on black background.

Then again, the gamer forum is a lot younger in average reader profile than the others, so maybe we're being a little harsh on them?

atszyman
Nov 17, 2006, 01:41 PM
Surprisingly while that inflammatory post remains I had one of my own posts moderated today; a very light-hearted post with two other MR users over what constitutes "next-gen" and it was all in fun.


The point of the thread where your post was deleted was not to define what "next-gen" is the point of that thread was discussing how much developers should like the Wii due to cheaper development costs. There was a brief comment about some wording in the article sighted and that led to a tangent about the definition of "next-gen".

The reported post was an opinion about the game that the thread is about. It might not have been a very favorable opinion but it was still on topic.

Eraserhead
Nov 17, 2006, 01:45 PM
That's the "point"...it's an off-topic post calling itself out for being off-topic.

Ah, OK, it didn't seem to be off topic to me so I got confused.