Apple Patents: Rotary Mouse

[MacRumors]

MacObserver notes (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2003/20030425.shtml) that Apple has filed a patent for a mouse with a rotary wheel. The rotational wheel would provide the user with the a scroll mechanism as well as a button.

The patent describes (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20030076303.PGNR.&OS=dn/20030076303&RS=DN/20030076303) the disadvantages of the traditional scroll wheel mouse:

Unfortunately, the mouse described in FIG. 1 [Traditional Scrollwheel mouse] has several drawbacks. For example, the scroll wheel is limited in that it only provides a single finger position for accessing the scroll wheel (e.g., same position for left and right handed users). Furthermore, because only a small portion of the wheel can be used at any one time, the user cannot continuously turn the wheel. That is, the user must scroll, pick up a finger, scroll, pick up a finger, etc. This takes time and can be an annoyance to a user. In addition, because a portion of the wheel protrudes above the top surface of the mouse, inadvertent or accidental scrolling may occur when one of the two buttons is activated. That is, when the user goes to push the button or when the user switches from one button to the other, the user's finger may also engage the scroll wheel thus causing the wheel to turn when the button is depressed. Moreover, because the scroll wheel can only be manipulated in one direction, the use of the scroll wheel becomes counter intuitive when scrolling in a different direction in the GUI, as for example directions that are orthogonal thereto. That is, the scroll wheel only moves in one direction and thus it generally corresponds well to vertical scrolling and not horizontal scrolling (or vice versa). Also, the protruding scroll wheel is not aesthetically pleasing and thus it presents industrial design difficulties.


Users have speculated about such a wheel-device on a mouse, since the release of the iPod, with at least one mockup (http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=56846) posted in May 2002.

[melchior]

so this is patent describing that... um, dial thing that that company sells (griffin powermate) =) combined with ha mouse.

i'd use it. the powermate is too expensive!

i hope it comes soon! next week? ;-)

oh, and my imagination leads to something very different from that mockup... i would LIKE to see a more powermate type mouse :cool:

[AndrewMT]

Geez. They make it sound like the user needs a PHD to use a scroll wheel.

[weev]

I'm thinking ipod scroll wheel here in some kinda mousey config.

May I add that a second button-type device on the mac mouse is long overdue (and a block to some switchers).

[melchior]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Geez. They make it sound like the user needs a PHD to use a scroll wheel.

you do, it's a system requirment. why do you think we have a one button mouse? :D

[chewbaccapits]

I love that Apple takes the time to research things like this....

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by melchior
so this is patent describing that... um, dial thing that that company sells (griffin powermate) =) combined with ha mouse.

i'd use it. the powermate is too expensive!

i hope it comes soon! next week? ;-)

oh, and my imagination leads to something very different from that mockup... i would LIKE to see a more powermate type mouse :cool:
But a powermate-like wheel would protrude and would defeat one of the arguments mentioned in the patent (unaesthetic, not pleasing industrial design-wise...).

I also think iPod-like wheel integrated in the mouse...

NicoMan

[richie]

Originally posted by NicoMan

I also think iPod-like wheel integrated in the mouse...


Hmm, but this would seem confusing in a full-scale OS (as opposed to the iPod's) wouldn't it? I mean, scrolling down... rotate clockwise? It doesn't seem intuitive on a mouse, compared to on the iPod. Of course, if they do use it, it'll work, I know, but I just can't think of how, right now. Heh.


Edit: Just saw in the Patent:

12. A mouse for moving a cursor or pointer on a display screen, comprising: a mouse housing; and a disk coupled to the mouse housing and rotatable about an axis, the disk being configured to facilitate a control function on the display screen, the disk having a touchable surface for rotating the disk about the axis, the touchable surface being completely accessible to a finger of the user such that the disk can be continuously rotated by a simple swirling motion of the finger.


So... iPod-like thing seems pretty certain, at least for this claim. Not that patenting it would necessarily mean it's going to be used... :)

[mangoduck]

apple has resisted making a multi-button mouse and/or scrolling mouse for so long, so it makes sense that if/when they finally do that it can't be as simple as that. they have to make it different just to make a point. i like it!

usability is another thing, but i'm not going to worry. that's apple's "thing" to such a degree, they can't help but get it right. i hope.

[kas95125]

Originally posted by mangoduck
that's apple's "thing" to such a degree, they can't help but get it right. i hope.

I humbly draw your attention to the hockey puck fiasco. :D

[vniow]

Some images for the lazy:

Mockup:
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?postid=56846

Powermate:
http://www.griffintechnology.com/images/products/prod_powermate.jpg

And some of the more interesting patent images...

(scaled down and mirrored here for your convienence because those things can be a pain in the ass to load, seems like the mockup isn't too far off though...)


Oh, and for the love of gawd, please include a second button already!

Also of note, to see the full size images, use Safari, wait for the page to load (there may or may not be a big blank image in the middle) ctrl-click on it (should be inside the second set of scroll bars) and save link to disk.
It often times out, so just keep on trying.

[Snowy_River]

I've used a trackball with an integrated rotary mechanism, and I've got to say I liked it much better than the scroll wheels I've worked with, for many of the reasons that they state. Continuous scrolling is no small thing once you've experienced it. And the issue of getting used to clockwise vs counter-clockwise for scrolling up and down is really not that big a deal. Believe me, this sounds like a really good thing!

:cool:

[dstorey]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Continuous scrolling is no small thing once you've experienced it. And the issue of getting used to clockwise vs counter-clockwise for scrolling up and down is really not that big a deal. Believe me, this sounds like a really good thing!

:cool:

ummm but then what about scrolling left to right and right to left. It mentions that too. if clockwise id down, anti-clockwise is up how do you scroll horizontally? the only way i can think of and its not all together ituitive as this patent says the design will be is that if your first movement is to move you finger up on the wheel then you scroll up, move left first and you scroll left etc.

[mangoduck]

I humbly draw your attention to the hockey puck fiasco.

yes, that did come to mind when i wrote that. personally, i don't mind it at all, and am still using the puck that came with my last mac from 3 years ago. so used to it that any other "ergonomic" mouse just isn't. can't stand the top of it touching my palm; fingertips i say! zippy!

the pro mouse is better by most people's standards, but i've found that holding down a click while trying to pick up and reposition the mouse isn't so easy. the little cutout areas on the sides really should be squeezable because sometimes the plastic alone is just too slippery.

however, since there was such an outcry in response to previous design flaws - or maybe oddities is the right word - i should think apple will make the extra effort this time around. that was my thinking.

[celaurie]

Well, I personally feel guilty using the Micro$oft Intellipoint mouse I acquired recently. Such an Apple invention would make me very happy and feel more akin to the Jedi Force as opposed to the Dark Side... When can I have one? Oooh, can I be the tester?

And on the subject of mice, aren't wireless Apple mice looong overdue? :mad:

Chris, the impatient!

[makkystyle]

They have listed some pretty cool features on this patent application. First, my biggest problem with the scroll whell is that many times there is not enough fine movement in it i.e. when you want to move page just a small bit. Apple mentions that an optical encoder may be used (no more click-clicking).

Any suitable number of counts may be used. In most cases, it would be desirable to increase the number of counts per report so as to provide higher resolution, i.e., more information can be used for things such as acceleration. Unfortunately, however, as the number of counts increases per report, it becomes harder for a human to determine. That is, there is generally a minimum angle that corresponds to human motor function (360/counts=degrees of rotation per count). Therefore, it would be desirable to balance the resolution and the human motor function, i.e., a high resolution that has some benefit to the user. It is generally believed that optical encoders give the user more control over the resolution, i.e., how many counts per rotation.

Also, they leave the door open for wireless....

In addition to the above, the mouse 100 generally includes a cable for connection to the computer. One end of the cable is permanently connected to the internal electronics such as the encoders, switches, processor, and the like, and the other end includes a connector for temporarily coupling the mouse to the computer. By way of example, the connector may be a PS/2 connector, a serial connector, a USB port and the like. In some cases, the mouse may include a radio frequency (RF link or optical infrared (IR) link to eliminate the need for a cable.

Finally....

For example, although in most cases the default of the scroll disc would correspond to vertical scrolling, in software, the cursor may be moved to the horizontal scroll bar on the screen to actuate horizontal scrolling.

[ipiloot]

Originally posted by dstorey
ummm but then what about scrolling left to right and right to left. It mentions that too. if clockwise id down, anti-clockwise is up how do you scroll horizontally? the only way i can think of and its not all together ituitive as this patent says the design will be is that if your first movement is to move you finger up on the wheel then you scroll up, move left first and you scroll left etc.

Look at the drawings. The disc seems to reside on a rocker. And possibly registers where you start scrolling. If you start on the vertical edge of the disc, it's vertical and if you start on horizontal, it's horizontal. The thing is clearly worth a patent and imho very smart invention.

[buseman]

I would like the scrollwheel to be vertical for the thumb. Scrolling sideways for the pointing finger is very unergonomic.

[ajbrehm]

Does the US patent office know the term "prior art"?

[stuepfnick]

I would love to see a mouse with a small touchpad on it, for scrolling. So you can scroll vertically and horizantally, and all smooth, and not in such big steps! Especially, because Mac OS X doesn't interpolate the scrolling and is just bucking.

I hope the apple thing gets similar fine, or even better!

greetings,
Baboon

[a9mike]

click - vertical
click - horizontal

The "rotary" section of the device will most certainly accept clicks as the iPod does. Click on it once (or by default without a click) and you control the vertical, click again & control the horizontal. Seems like it could be very intuative <envisioning> ... I think </envisioning>

I've personally just always liked the space bar as a modifier to "grab" the page, as in Photoshop & <option> in Quark.

2 cents

[gandalf55]

like a mini-trackball...

move forward, scrolls up... if you hold your finger there... its scrolls continously. same in reverse for down. side to side, angles, etc.

perfect for pshop, web pages, 3d apps, etc. !! no more needed to hit the space bar to get a grabber hand and then scroll around with the mouse pointer!!!!!!

i'd love this.

[dongmin]

i'm glad that apple is trying to innovate, but com'on, the scroll wheel is a good thing. most windows scroll up and down so it makes perfect sense to have a scroll wheel that works on one, vertical axis. the beauty of it is actually its simplicity. apple's proposal sounds quite complex.

[Goblin2099]

In addition, because a portion of the wheel protrudes above the top surface of the mouse, inadvertent or accidental scrolling may occur when one of the two buttons is activated. That is, when the user goes to push the button or when the user switches from one button to the other, the user's finger may also engage the scroll wheel thus causing the wheel to turn when the button is depressed.

I don't see how any of the designs described would help this at all...a touch sensitive wheel right between the two buttons seems a lot more likely to be hit than a scroll wheel. Scroll wheels have a physical resistance to being scrolled, you have to exert some force to move them. A touch sensitive wheel, like the iPod wheel or the trackpad on a laptop, just requires the finger to barely brush it and the cursor will jump all over the place.

[Postal]

What I keep thinking regarding this mouse design is that Apple may time its release (assuming it gets released) to coincide with new PowerMacs. A new CPU and a new case design merit a new control scheme, or so goes my logic.

And like others, I really hope that the mouse has something that acts as a second mouse button (whether it's the scroll wheel itself or a separate button). When you have an OS with right-click menus, you should be able to right-click out of the box, no matter how easy a Ctrl-click may be!

[GregA]

I wonder how this relates to the "gestures" ideas of using a mouse rumoured to be used with OS X 10.3.
Very interesting.

Apple, please if you're charging for 10.3, throw in a free new mouse. Hell, throw in a subscription to .Mac as well... I'm not asking for much am I? ;-)

Originally posted by vniow
to see the full size images, use Safari, wait for the page to load ctrl-click on it and save link to disk.

Or quicker, drag the image into the address bar (note if you drop in an image which is a link it will open the link, not the image).

[flyfish29]

I personally like using my hockey puck as well. You had to be willing to use it for a while to get used to it and now I think it will be hard to change back to a normal type mouse.

On the rotary mouse, it sounds like it might just be a small trackpad in the middle of a mouse?? being able to click on the pad, scroll left or right, up or down, etc. The words rotary do make it sound more like an iPod, but may be deceiving us on purpose.

Who knows?!!? Just glad they are trying to improve the input devices.:D

[theFly]

Originally posted by dongmin
i'm glad that apple is trying to innovate, but com'on, the scroll wheel is a good thing. most windows scroll up and down so it makes perfect sense to have a scroll wheel that works on one, vertical axis. the beauty of it is actually its simplicity. apple's proposal sounds quite complex.

On the web, you're correct.

But think about Apple's core market of creative folks. Being able to move around a large graphic in Photoshop is multi-directional.

Being able to scrub through a video is horizontal, not sure about a vertical use in video as I don't do much of it.

Edited to add:
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same technology used in current solid-state iPods, except enlarged. The wheel on the iPod wasn't intuitive when you look at it, until you used it for the first time.

theFly
Fly on the Mac
www.flyonthemac.com
Rumors You Can Bet On

[boskie]

hopefully this is what users of Maya and shake will be after/have been waiting for. Maybe Apple will offer it free bundled with release 3 of shake? (mac OS X edition only of course ;))

[beez7777]

Originally posted by a9mike
click - vertical
click - horizontal

The "rotary" section of the device will most certainly accept clicks as the iPod does. Click on it once (or by default without a click) and you control the vertical, click again & control the horizontal. Seems like it could be very intuative <envisioning> ... I think </envisioning>

if/when apple makes this mouse i don't think that there will be an option for horizontal scrolling. i just don't see a need for this. you can resize the window with the green button up top. on the powermate, there is no horizontal scrolling and i don't mind it. it works nicely, and with continuous scrolling, adding this feature to a mouse would be nice.

[moosecat]

I don't think this sounds like such a great idea... This might be hard to explain in a post, but here goes.

If you're using a scroll wheel mouse right now, twirl the wheel with whatever finger you usually use (for me, my middle finger). It's pretty comfortable, mainly because the motion corresponds with the way the joints in your finger are supposed to work. Finger joints (except the thumb) are not designed for lateral, side-to-side motion. They are designed for extension and retraction (in order to grasp things), and thus the motion of stroking a scroll wheel is natural.

Now, hold your mouse and move that same finger like you would if there were an iPod-like disk there. It just doesn't feel at all natural to me, because I have to move my finger in a circular motion it wasn't designed for. (If I try the motion with my index finger, it feels a little better, but still not as natural as twirling a vertically oriented scroll wheel.)

The iPod works because you use your thumb, which is designed like ball-and-socket and makes circular motions much more easily.

Anyhow, I'll stick with my current scroll wheel, I think.

[MorganX]

Seems they're spending more time justifying why they haven't adopted a more productive solution thus far, than describing their product.

Nice, but boring. Just standardize on a two-button mouse with whatever scrolling mechanism you like and be done with it. The mouse thing really is a mental issue with Jobs IMO.

I'll be glad when his mouse issue is over. I welcome Apple's improvements to the mouse. But it won't erase the past 19 years.

Sony has released a seamless two-button mouse. Apple should have a look. An iPod like scroll-wheel that also acts as a second button would be interesting also.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by moosecat
Now, hold your mouse and move that same finger like you would if there were an iPod-like disk there. It just doesn't feel at all natural to me, because I have to move my finger in a circular motion it wasn't designed for.

Feels pretting good to a centered trackball user.

[billyb]

I've been watching this site for a long time, thinking of switching to mac-land from windows. I've been wanting to switch for a while, but a few things have held me back. One is speed, which has been discussed elsewhere. But another is the input device. I use a MS Intellimouse that has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel, and use every digit on my hand except the pinky to control the computer. I've never figured out why Apple hasn't realized that we have multiple fingers and the mental capacity to control them separately. The note on how you might bump the scroll wheel while switching from one button to the other is hilarious to me--uh, you don't switch buttons. you have another finger. use it.

also, the scroll wheel has functionality that Apple hasn't considered. In addition to scrolling up and down, you can press the wheel (like a 5th button) and then when you move the mouse left or right, it scrolls left and right. One other user commented that you don't need to scroll left and right, just resize the window. That's true for web browsing and word documents, but what if you have a large spreadsheet or graphics somethingorother? then the left and right scroll comes in very handy.

Finally, I find that the control-click isn't as easy as people make it out to be (I use Macs all day at work). Sometimes you have to hold 'control' to get the special right-click. sometimes it's 'alt.' once i even had to use 'shift.' these are little gripes, but it's annoying to have to try 3 keys before finding the correct one--when all you want to do is find the right-click function.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by buseman
I would like the scrollwheel to be vertical for the thumb. Scrolling sideways for the pointing finger is very unergonomic.

I totally agree. Upon doing clockwise motions on my index finger on my mouse it feels uncomfortable. The thumb does not.

[mkubal]

It seems to me that the scroll mechanism would work alot like the d-pad from a video game controller. It would be pressure sensitive and you could move in any direction. Kinda like those mouse buttons in the middle of the keyboard of some laptop PCs, but not so retarded.That would make the most sense. A scroll whell would be a bit confusing.

Matt

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by billyb
I've been watching this site for a long time, thinking of switching to mac-land from windows. I've been wanting to switch for a while, but a few things have held me back. One is speed, which has been discussed elsewhere. But another is the input device. I use a MS Intellimouse that has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel, and use every digit on my hand except the pinky to control the computer. I've never figured out why Apple hasn't realized that we have multiple fingers and the mental capacity to control them separately. The note on how you might bump the scroll wheel while switching from one button to the other is hilarious to me--uh, you don't switch buttons. you have another finger. use it.

also, the scroll wheel has functionality that Apple hasn't considered. In addition to scrolling up and down, you can press the wheel (like a 5th button) and then when you move the mouse left or right, it scrolls left and right. One other user commented that you don't need to scroll left and right, just resize the window. That's true for web browsing and word documents, but what if you have a large spreadsheet or graphics somethingorother? then the left and right scroll comes in very handy.

Finally, I find that the control-click isn't as easy as people make it out to be (I use Macs all day at work). Sometimes you have to hold 'control' to get the special right-click. sometimes it's 'alt.' once i even had to use 'shift.' these are little gripes, but it's annoying to have to try 3 keys before finding the correct one--when all you want to do is find the right-click function.

I have a four button logitech mouse with my ibook... what's your point? If you don't like the mac mouse, you don't have to use it. I think apple sticks to having a single button mouse because 95% of the time, most people are just clicking or double clicking. And If by chance you are a designer or something like that you probably have one of those graphic tablets or some other kind of nifty mouse.

[eric_n_dfw]

I welcome the optional addition of multi button and scroll wheel / disc mice to Apple's line-up, but to those of you who say you won't (or other people) switch to Apple because of the one button mouse, I say grow up!

I hate the single button mouse, I really hated the hockey puck mouse that came with my old B&W G3. I went to CompUSA and bought a Logitech optical USB mouse for $20 which has 2 buttons plus a scroll wheel. It came with driver software for Windows an Mac OS 9 (which enabled the 2nd button and wheel) and when OS X Dev Preview came out, it worked with Apple's drivers. (Both buttons and wheel)

Apple supports the multi-button mice just fine. (And I just picked up a newer, higher resolution Logitech optical wheel mouse for $12 on sale at Staples) Sell your Apple Pro Mouse on eBay and buy a Logitech or MS Intellemouse with the money!

Oh - and the iPod style wheel sounds cool as a poor-man's audio/video scrubbing wheel.

[edit]PS: I cannot believe how often this comes up here.

[marklander]

You guys are missing the potential of this brilliant design!

In this case, function follows form. Suddenly Apple has reinvented the human interface to the personal computer allowing the entire OS to evolve into a three-dimensional GUI. Imagine a file system that is interlinked in a virtual circle surrounding you--like the internet. Instead of browsing horizontally and vertically on a square mouse pad, one would navigate infinitely clockwise or counter clockwise. Wider screens would eventually give way to virtual room sensations--made possible by a three-dimensional GUI.

OS 3d will blow Longhorn away!

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by marklander
You guys are missing the potential of this brilliant design!

In this case, function follows form. Suddenly Apple has reinvented the human interface to the personal computer allowing the entire OS to evolve into a three-dimensional GUI. Imagine a file system that is interlinked in a virtual circle surrounding you--like the internet. Instead of browsing horizontally and vertically on a square mouse pad, one would navigate infinitely clockwise or counter clockwise. Wider screens would eventually give way to virtual room sensations--made possible by a three-dimensional GUI.

OS 3d will blow Longhorn away!
puke!:eek:

[billyb]

but to those of you who say you won't (or other people) switch to Apple because of the one button mouse, I say grow up?QUOTE]

let me clarify...After re-reading my post, i think it was misplaced. Desktop users have the option of replacing their mice, but laptop users, if using the built-in pad, do not. I think apple should cut their laptop button in half, make it two, and add the ability to scroll using the pad (by moving your finger down the side or across the bottom of the pad) (and correct me if this has already been done as an add-on that i haven't found).

bb

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by billyb
but to those of you who say you won't (or other people) switch to Apple because of the one button mouse, I say grow up?QUOTE]

let me clarify...After re-reading my post, i think it was misplaced. Desktop users have the option of replacing their mice, but laptop users, if using the built-in pad, do not. I think apple should cut their laptop button in half, make it two, and add the ability to scroll using the pad (by moving your finger down the side or across the bottom of the pad) (and correct me if this has already been done as an add-on that i haven't found).

bb Sorry, you have a good point here; not having a PowerBook/iBook I don't think about it. I hate all laptop pointing devices and carry a USB mouse with my work (Windows) laptop anyway.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by moosecat
Finger joints (except the thumb) are not designed for lateral, side-to-side motion. They are designed for extension and retraction (in order to grasp things), and thus the motion of stroking a scroll wheel is natural.


absolutely disagree. the fingers were "designed" for lateral motion, though it is limited. also, apple isnt suggesting any lateral movemnet that wouldnt be natural. they are simply suggesting a continuos swirl. i think every male and female past a certain age is already well aware with this (from your perspective) tricky maneuver.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by billyb
I use a MS Intellimouse that has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel, and use every digit on my hand except the pinky to control the computer. I've never figured out why Apple hasn't realized that we have multiple fingers and the mental capacity to control them separately. The note on how you might bump the scroll wheel while switching from one button to the other is hilarious to me--uh, you don't switch buttons. you have another finger. use it.
Originally posted by billyb
let me clarify...After re-reading my post, i think it was misplaced. Desktop users have the option of replacing their mice, but laptop users, if using the built-in pad, do not. I think apple should cut their laptop button in half, make it two, and add the ability to scroll using the pad (by moving your finger down the side or across the bottom of the pad) (and correct me if this has already been done as an add-on that i haven't found).
bb

wait you first said that you were considering switching to a mac but havent because of a few problems. and the input device being one of those problems.....then you go on to describe how wonderful your multi button mouse is and how apple is a joke.

then someone points out your rediculous remark. you would THINK that you would have one less reason to hold you back from a mac right? cause someone just reminded you that you can use your super productive powerful tool, the intellimouse on the mac. i mean that WAS your ORIGNINAL argument RIGHT?

and now you change your argument to how the track pads on the laptop line are really why your not switching to the mac.

i thought the whole purpose of your original post was to describe how YOU werent switching to mac because of the single button mouse. now that you know that argument is too weak your switching to the track pad on lap tops?:rolleyes:



seems to me your out to make apple sauce. well your not doing a very good job.

[MarksEvilTwin]

Removed

[Postal]

The more I think about it, the more I think that a circular scroll wheel is a deliberate move on Apple's part to appeal to audio/video editors. It makes sense in the apps they use, and it also gives an extra amount of travel for finer adjustments when compared to similar mice (like that one Kensington optical-scroll mouse).

[Bengt77]

I don't see what's the problem with horizontal scrolling?! I mean, hold down SHIFT and use the scroll wheel and you scroll left or right. Very easy and could very well be implemented with this possible new pointing device.

:confused:

Don't you all use your keyboard or anything?!...

[MorganX]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I have a four button logitech mouse with my ibook... what's your point? If you don't like the mac mouse, you don't have to use it. I think apple sticks to having a single button mouse because 95% of the time, most people are just clicking or double clicking. And If by chance you are a designer or something like that you probably have one of those graphic tablets or some other kind of nifty mouse.

The point is until Apple standardizes on it, it's context menu implementation will always be lacking.

When in finder, everything relevant to the folder you are in should be accessible with a right-click.

As sloppy as Mac OS windows have always tended to be, you cannot right-click and access the view menu. What a waste to have to travel to the finder menu to clean up a folder you are already in. Context-menus are better than they've ever been on the Mac, thanks mostly to Adobe. But Apple still has a lot to implement here IMO. Standardizing on a 2 button mouse will get everyone on board.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by MarksEvilTwin
I agree about the inability to easily scroll horizontally, but the rest of it just sounds like excuses.mouse.

Mark

I don't scroll much horizontally at all, can't remember doing it since I had a 15" monitor years ago. At least I didn't in Windows. OS X's finder though, has you scrolling horizontally a lot :D. I do miss Explorer often.

[j33pd0g]

I liked the look of the "mock up" mouse. Maybe it'll be bluetooth.

I use a dual laser Logitech now... I like it because of the programable functions. Example: thumb click = command+c, and the scroll wheel click = command+v. Copy and paste has never been so fast. I hope the new mouse device at least has this kind of technology.

[seamuskrat]

Check out www.looprumors.com
They have diagrams submitted showing iPod/mouse with rotary wheel/PHINE combo.
Go figure.
I do NOT want my mouse ringing.....

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by beatle888
absolutely disagree. the fingers were "designed" for lateral motion, though it is limited. also, apple isnt suggesting any lateral movemnet that wouldnt be natural. they are simply suggesting a continuos swirl. i think every male and female past a certain age is already well aware with this (from your perspective) tricky maneuver.

LOL!!!

I pity the fool that aint well aware of this "tricky maneuver"!

From his history I think Jobs fully expects it...

Oh, man, that's funny...:D

[StephenBeckwith]

Way back in the last 1980's, I worked on an HP system that had a "wheel". These were the 68K Based computers that they primarily sold for use with test equipment setups. They ran a funky HP OS, and you programmed with using "Rocky Mountian Basic" (because the BASIC as developed at the Colorado facility). This basic was rather GOOD for the time, could run in interpreted mode, or "compiled" mode. I actually wrote a "scheduler" to download mulitple test units.
Anyway, the keyboard (a very nice one to boot!) had a wheel flat on the keyboard, in the upper left corner (if memory serves me). Spinning the wheel was equivalent to scroll up/down. I think <SHIFT> and wheel movements were back and forth. You could do this with one hand, and was pretty efficient! It will be interesting to see how Apple plans to "re-invent" this.

[scem0]

Sorry to whoever made the mockup, but it is fugly. :(

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by buseman
I would like the scrollwheel to be vertical for the thumb. Scrolling sideways for the pointing finger is very unergonomic.

Ugh! Please no! I really detest pointer devices that try to use the thumb too much.

As to scrolling horizontally with existing scroll wheels, I think that the point isn't that it's not possible, so much as that it's really counter-intuitive to scroll a wheel up and down in order to scroll a page left and right.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by billyb

Finally, I find that the control-click isn't as easy as people make it out to be (I use Macs all day at work). Sometimes you have to hold 'control' to get the special right-click. sometimes it's 'alt.' once i even had to use 'shift.' these are little gripes, but it's annoying to have to try 3 keys before finding the correct one--when all you want to do is find the right-click function.

It seems to me that your issues with modifier keys are not an Apple problem, but a software make problem. Apple has been standardized on using Control-Click for contextual menus since MacOS 8. So, if a software company can't get their act together and produce a version of their product that is in accord with the HIG in the course of five+ years, then I think the blame lies with them, not with Apple.

Personally, I like multi-button mice...

[springscansing]

Originally posted by gandalf55
like a mini-trackball...

move forward, scrolls up... if you hold your finger there... its scrolls continously. same in reverse for down. side to side, angles, etc.

perfect for pshop, web pages, 3d apps, etc. !! no more needed to hit the space bar to get a grabber hand and then scroll around with the mouse pointer!!!!!!

i'd love this.

Exactly.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by scem0
Sorry to whoever made the mockup, but it is fugly. :(

So are you scem0 for christ sakes.

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by marklander
You guys are missing the potential of this brilliant design!

In this case, function follows form. Suddenly Apple has reinvented the human interface to the personal computer allowing the entire OS to evolve into a three-dimensional GUI. Imagine a file system that is interlinked in a virtual circle surrounding you--like the internet. Instead of browsing horizontally and vertically on a square mouse pad, one would navigate infinitely clockwise or counter clockwise. Wider screens would eventually give way to virtual room sensations--made possible by a three-dimensional GUI.

OS 3d will blow Longhorn away!

OK, has anyone here seen Lawnmower Man?

"Floating, falling, flying....what's next, ****ing?"

Anyway, I don't know about rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise through your GUI, but I like this in the "tabbed interface" sense of things...

Anyway, am I the only one who sees this interacting with piles?

To all you folks who say they won't switch because of a one-button mouse: get over it and buy a two-button mouse.

To those of you who say the above to people who won't switch because of a one-button mouse: Apple should have been including one a long time ago.

To those of you who think Apple should have included one a long time ago: many PC users don't even know how to work their two-button mouse very well, one is easier to learn.

To those who think a one-button mouse is easier to learn, so it should be the default: I am really sick of having to hit CTL for my contextual menus and COMMAND for my spells in Diablo II.

To those who are tired of having to hit CTL for their contextual menus and COMMAND for their spells in Diablo II: why didn't you buy a damn multi-button mouse, you cheap-ass?

To those who are sick of reading this pointless post: hopefully we can all stop arguing about this. Looks like we're gonna get a two-button mouse, with a wheel, and it may, just may be worth bragging about.

Innovation and good looks are about all Apple's got going for it right now. Their first foray into multi-functional mice ought to and damn well better be a good one. Here's hoping it's as good as...uh, as we hope it will be.

[foniks2020]

Originally posted by stuepfnick
I would love to see a mouse with a small touchpad on it, for scrolling. So you can scroll vertically and horizantally, and all smooth, and not in such big steps! Especially, because Mac OS X doesn't interpolate the scrolling and is just bucking.

I hope the apple thing gets similar fine, or even better!

greetings,
Baboon

Try out the StudioOptical from Kensington... it does have a trackpad like thing instead of a 'wheel' for scrolling.

In fact Kensington makes the best optical mouse in my opinion. Their DiamondEye technology is the best and their wireless tech is also the best... not to mention the serious superiority of their driver/pref pane.... the best.

I've tried the rest but I keep going back to the best, Kensington.

[foniks2020]

Originally posted by billyb
I've been watching this site for a long time, thinking of switching to mac-land from windows. I've been wanting to switch for a while, but a few things have held me back. One is speed, which has been discussed elsewhere. But another is the input device. I use a MS Intellimouse that has 4 buttons and a scroll wheel, and use every digit on my hand except the pinky to control the computer. I've never figured out why Apple hasn't realized that we have multiple fingers and the mental capacity to control them separately. The note on how you might bump the scroll wheel while switching from one button to the other is hilarious to me--uh, you don't switch buttons. you have another finger. use it.

There are many input device companies which make multi-button mouse devices with sufficient drivers for Mac, try one. I'm currently using the 5 button wireless optical MouseInABox from Kensington. Very suite..... every button is application specific programmable and the wireless and optical are the smoothest, seriously you don't know how nice an input device can be until you've tried one.

It's like the first time you tried an optical... no ball dragging you down... it's that much different.

[gwuMACaddict]

ahhhhh... finally i won't be forced to tuck tail and run when playing my pc friends in unreal. three cheers for the new mouse

[G4scott]

Originally posted by marklander
You guys are missing the potential of this brilliant design!

In this case, function follows form. Suddenly Apple has reinvented the human interface to the personal computer allowing the entire OS to evolve into a three-dimensional GUI. Imagine a file system that is interlinked in a virtual circle surrounding you--like the internet. Instead of browsing horizontally and vertically on a square mouse pad, one would navigate infinitely clockwise or counter clockwise. Wider screens would eventually give way to virtual room sensations--made possible by a three-dimensional GUI.

OS 3d will blow Longhorn away!

They can make it like Quake... Browser around your filesystem and go through all the directories.

Shoot an item with one gun to open it, shoot it with another to move, and blow it up with a rocket launcher to delete it!

Wasn't there something like this where somebody altered the doom game so that you can run around, search for a process, and literally 'kill' it? It was a fun way to force quit those nasty programs that are always screwing up. Revenge is sweet!

Anyways, back on topic:

This idea for a mouse with a scroll wheel sounds like a good idea. If you don't like it, get another mouse...

Hopefully, if it does happen, Apple will find a way to make it cool and comfortable...

[MarksEvilTwin]

Removed

[iJon]

this sounds like it will be weird, just have to wait and see. from looking at my mouse it seemed like a scroll on the side of the mouse would be cool, but i am right handed, so it wouldnt work for a left hander.

iJon

[GeneR]

I dunno. I think the diagram looks sucky. :D

[mxkupc]

Originally posted by ajbrehm
Does the US patent office know the term "prior art"?

They certainly do. Keep in mind that this is a published patent application, NOT a patent. These are the claims that Apple has asked for, not the claims that have been granted to them. Most likely the Patent Office has not even begun examination of this application, a process which depending on the backlogs could take several more years.