New Apple Mouse and Keyboard... Soon

MacRumors · Apr 26, 2003

According to reliable sources, Apple is planning on introducing a minor revision to the current Keyboard and Mouse.

Despite rumors to the contrary, the new devices will not bring more exotic features to the Apple accessories. According to reports, the new items will not support Bluetooth and the mouse will still only sport one button.

Updates may come alongside eMac updates -- which are rumored to reach 1GHz shortly.

MacAztec · Apr 26, 2003

Wow

Poor apple. Get a 2 button mouse. Is it that hard? Jeesh....

Oh wait, I want to get info on this item

<control+click------get info>

or just right click----get info

The second option is more simple, and Apple likes to be simple...

Hemingray · Apr 26, 2003

Well if they're not BT and the mouse ain't multi-button, what's gonna be so great about them? The BT was never a big deal to me anyway, but IMHO the single button mouse needs to be put to rest... or at least a BTO.

sawaguchishinji · Apr 26, 2003

Apple bets on simplicity. It annoys some persons and others love it.

MrMacMan · Apr 26, 2003

Yes!

We NEED a 2-button mouse tho, please!!

maybe scroll whell?

please!

macktheknife · Apr 26, 2003

I really don't understand why Apple is sticking with the one-button mouse--especially now that Apple is trying to shift to an OS X-only policy. I can hold down CTRL just as well as the next fellow, but I'd rather just use my Logitech mouse with one hand. Honestly, I wonder if there's a "snob factor" here by Steve who gave us the wonderful hockey-puck mouse and the left-hand warmer that is the 12 inch PowerBook. OK, that was a bit harsh there, but I really do wonder why Apple is sticking to a one-button mouse.

chewbaccapits · Apr 26, 2003

boo...I it would be cool if apple reinvented the mouse based on those skematics with the "iPod" wheel, but F' them if they don't. Buy 3rd party mice...

rainman::|:| · Apr 26, 2003

the one-button mouse is a huge thing for apple-- always has been-- it just says "see, sit down, calm down, things are simple over here". Apple has always (successfully IMHO) argued that a one-button mouse is superior because it's less the user has to deal with physically.

switching to a multiple button mouse would be saying "okay, windows world, you were right these past 25 years, we're going to become more like you to help ourselves survive". i dont think that's a statement apple is prepared to make at this point.

pnw

meghop · Apr 26, 2003

Originally posted by sawaguchishinji
Apple bets on simplicity. It annoys some persons and others love it.

Two-button mice annoy me to no end. I am one of those people that always ends up right clicking when I mean to left click or vice versa. I like to control-click because I have to make a purposeful move in order to do it, can't hit it by accident and have those annoying menus pop up when you don't want them. I have a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel - it sits in a drawer unused.

Also, I like the Apple Pro mouse because you basically just mash with your hand. Satisfying to squish. I work with lots of computer newbies, and boy, putting two buttons on mice just confuses the heck out of them - much of the mainstream is still getting the hang of ONE button, lol. You think it's crazy, but it's true. That's why there are third-party mice, I suppose. It would be funny if someday I had to buy an Apple Pro mouse to replace whatever two-button mouse came with the computer. Get a taste of how the other half lives, I guess!

inkswamp · Apr 26, 2003

Re: Wow

Originally posted by MacAztec
Oh wait, I want to get info on this item

<control+click------get info>

or just right click----get info

The second option is more simple, and Apple likes to be simple...

How about Apple+I? Is that not simple enough?

Let's not forget that Apple is the company that produces the best interfaces out there. Like it or not, the multi-button mouse is just bad design and the reason Apple stays away from it (IMO) is that they know it's bad design. I expect that if they ever do release a multi-button mouse, it will be done in such a way that everyone who uses a multi-button mouse will look at it and say "Now why haven't these things been done this way all along?" That takes time and money to research and develop. The control+click menu was put there for convenience, but it's not a built-in part of the system (i.e., not reinforced by the presence of a second button) so that problem doesn't occur (yet.)

There should be no reason for multiple buttons and contextual menus, and the presence of multiple buttons gives way to lazy interface decisions. All functionality in a program should be accessible through its menus (and by extension, its key commands.) What the multiple button mouse leads to is horrible interface problems. Ever used a Windows machine and had to hunt endlessly to find out where you had to right-click to find the thing you're seeking because the developer failed to put it in the menu bar? I've dealt with that enough on Windows and don't want that kind of lousy interface design infecting my Mac.

Just IMO. Frankly, after having dealt with the half-baked crud that passes for the Windows interface for so long, the Mac's simplified approach works for me. I'm not eager to see Apple mess with it to please a bunch of people who have been taught to expect bad design.

LethalWolfe · Apr 26, 2003

Re: Re: Wow

Originally posted by inkswamp
How about Apple+I? Is that not simple enough?

Let's not forget that Apple is the company that produces the best interfaces out there. Like it or not, the multi-button mouse is just bad design and the reason Apple stays away from it (IMO) is that they know it's bad design. I expect that if they ever do release a multi-button mouse, it will be done in such a way that everyone who uses a multi-button mouse will look at it and say "Now why haven't these things been done this way all along?" That takes time and money to research and develop. The control+click menu was put there for convenience, but it's not a built-in part of the system (i.e., not reinforced by the presence of a second button) so that problem doesn't occur (yet.)

There should be no reason for multiple buttons and contextual menus, and the presence of multiple buttons gives way to lazy interface decisions. All functionality in a program should be accessible through its menus (and by extension, its key commands.) What the multiple button mouse leads to is horrible interface problems. Ever used a Windows machine and had to hunt endlessly to find out where you had to right-click to find the thing you're seeking because the developer failed to put it in the menu bar? I've dealt with that enough on Windows and don't want that kind of lousy interface design infecting my Mac.

Just IMO. Frankly, after having dealt with the half-baked crud that passes for the Windows interface for so long, the Mac's simplified approach works for me. I'm not eager to see Apple mess with it to please a bunch of people who have been taught to expect bad design.

Why should I have to mouse up to the menu or perform keyboard gymnastics just to get info and/or maniuplate the "ojbect" my mouse is currently resting on?

Rt click->Show info vs. click->perform excessive movement to hit command+i.

Different needs for different users but I find the 5 completely programmable buttons and scroll wheel on my mouse d@mn near indispensable when using FCP, PS, and AE. And very convient for use w/"everyday" applications. Although I think the Pro mouse looks much better than mine I don't use it 'cause, IMO, it's inferior to multi-button mice. But my biggest pet peeve is that even on the highest "speed" setting is still way too slow for my taste.

Lethal

shadowfax · Apr 26, 2003

god, ok, 1 button is fine, but for goodness' sake, they are idiots if they don't add some kind of scroller.

ok, so last weeek we had iBook updates... this monday we're looking at possibly iPod updates and of course the new music service. so maybe the week after that we will see the new eMac, and maybe a new keyboard/mouse that same day or the next week?

question: would apple make a big deal about a new mouse/keyboard? like, would it poossibly get it's own release date?

Arcady · Apr 26, 2003

They should offer different mice when you buy a Mac. I know a lot of Windows users (and Mac users now) who won't use anything but a 2 button mouse with a scroll wheel.

So sell the Mac without a mouse, and let the buyer choose a 1, 2, 3, 5 or whatever button mouse. Apple must have some clue about people wanting a scrollwheel and a second button, since they built the software into OS X.

Apple used to sell Macs without a keyboard, so you could choose your own... but they always gave you that retarded mouse.

I have a box full of stupid one button mice that nobody wants. Get a clue, Apple!

porovaara · Apr 26, 2003

Don't blame this on Steve.

He was a big fan of the multi-button mouse on NeXTSTEP.

Abstract · Apr 26, 2003

Originally posted by meghop
Two-button mice annoy me to no end. I am one of those people that always ends up right clicking when I mean to left click or vice versa. I like to control-click because I have to make a purposeful move in order to do it, can't hit it by accident and have those annoying menus pop up when you don't want them.

Hahaha!!! That's funny.

Well, it is unless you're dyslexic. If you are, then sorry. But if you're not, then...........well, hehe

How about Apple+I? Is that not simple enough?

....What the multiple button mouse leads to is horrible interface problems. Ever used a Windows machine and had to hunt endlessly to find out where you had to right-click to find the thing you're seeking because the developer failed to put it in the menu bar? (NOPE ) I've dealt with that enough on Windows and don't want that kind of lousy interface design infecting my Mac.

.... Frankly, after having dealt with the half-baked crud that passes for the Windows interface for so long, the Mac's simplified approach works for me.

That's pretty funny too.

How is "Apple + I" any different than the right-click, other than that it's more difficult to do? The Mac's simplified approach is to make it more physically difficult to do? Sure, if your left hand needs the exercise, then go ahead.

"In order to simplify the process, we will not allow you to scroll down the page with a wheel. I say we do it the old fashioned way, just like I had to do it. Mwahahaha" ---- Ol' Man Steve Jobs.

Head Wound · Apr 26, 2003

Huh?

What in the hell are you guys talking about???

Apple sells a WIDE VARIETY of multi-button mouses with scroll wheels! They have for a LONG TIME! Just look on the site. Theres mouses by every well known input device maker I know of, and you can easily add them to any purchase.

I use a multi-button Logitech mouse with every mac I use. I can't be without the right-click and scroll wheel.

You guys are SERIOUSLY out of touch...

Head Wound · Apr 26, 2003

Oh...

...and if anyone here thinks that Apple would ever reduce the price and give you an option to not get a mouse with your mac, your crazy! There is not going to be any benefit to such an option, the mac will still cost the same with or without the Apple mouse.

AndrewMT · Apr 26, 2003

Has anyone considered that Apple would probably loose notebook sales temporarily if they released a two button mouse? I wouldn't buy the $3300 17" powerbook with one lousy button if I knew a two button trackpad was coming out in the next revision.

Also, the revised mouse could still be one large button with the center of the scrolling circle acting as the second button.

vniow · Apr 26, 2003

Originally posted by meghop

Also, I like the Apple Pro mouse because you basically just mash with your hand.

Well that's exactly why I hate the Pro mouse, it may look nice and be egromonically designed, but I'm always accidentally clicking by pressing down on the mouse even a little too hard because I'm used to pressing down on an actual button, not the entire mouse.

I work with lots of computer newbies, and boy, putting two buttons on mice just confuses the heck out of them - much of the mainstream is still getting the hang of ONE button, lol.

Click to expand...

I've worked with quite a few computer newbies myself and not one of them has any trouble figuring out the second button, they have a much harder time adapting to using two hands to do the function of one on every other computer but the Mac.

Originally posted by inkswamp

Let's not forget that Apple is the company that produces the best interfaces out there.

Matter of opinion.

Like it or not, the multi-button mouse is just bad design and the reason Apple stays away from it (IMO) is that they know it's bad design.

Click to expand...

Bad design?

More than one button on a mouse a bad design?

I would think with all the extra functionality that comes with a multi-button mouse would make it a superior design no?

I use Cocoa gestures a lot in Safari and Camino and while I can get by using the keyboard on my iBook for things like that, when I plug in my very basic Logitech wheelmouse, I just change some of the options and my browsing is greatly improved and much more efficient.

Also to get simple contextual menus, I have to do more work (although I will admit its not a lot) to make them appear when I only have one button to work with and while that's not a big deal on a notebook, on a desktop its more trouble since I keep my keyboard and mouse somewhat distant and if I had a second button on the trackpad of my iBook, I could to things quite a bit faster vs ctrl clicking.

I expect that if they ever do release a multi-button mouse, it will be done in such a way that everyone who uses a multi-button mouse will look at it and say "Now why haven't these things been done this way all along?"

Click to expand...

I completely agree with this, if anybody can revolutionize something as simple and essential to basic functionality as the mouse, its Apple.

That takes time and money to research and develop. The control+click menu was put there for convenience, but it's not a built-in part of the system (i.e., not reinforced by the presence of a second button) so that problem doesn't occur (yet.)

Click to expand...

Huh?

Ctrl-clicking and contextual menus are a built in part of the system, its built into the Finder, just about every app, document file, just about everything, I believe that they can be put to a better use if a multiple button mouse was used.

There should be no reason for multiple buttons and contextual menus, and the presence of multiple buttons gives way to lazy interface decisions. All functionality in a program should be accessible through its menus (and by extension, its key commands.)

Click to expand...

Isn't that what contextual menus do though?
Allow you to access the functionality in a program through its menus?

When I got my first Mac, the idea that the menu bar was application specific was a bit confusing at first but I learned to like it and find that it tidies up the interface but I never got used to the idea of ctrl-clicking, coming from a long-time Windows user, I found it frustrating to use and adapt to and I plug in a wheelmouse into my iBook whenever I can because I can get a lot more functionality with it.

What the multiple button mouse leads to is horrible interface problems. Ever used a Windows machine and had to hunt endlessly to find out where you had to right-click to find the thing you're seeking because the developer failed to put it in the menu bar? I've dealt with that enough on Windows and don't want that kind of lousy interface design infecting my Mac.

Click to expand...

Depends on the app, I've used a few that had most of their functionality almost soley by contextual menus which was really frustrating, I preferred the ones that were a little of both, all of the essential ones in the main menu and the most commonly used ones (like cut, copy, paste, etc..) in the contextual menu which made for a much more productive environment for me at least sice I have a decent sized screen on my PC and my mouse would have to travel a ways in order to get some of the functionality which would otherwise be there at the touch of a button.

Just IMO. Frankly, after having dealt with the half-baked crud that passes for the Windows interface for so long, the Mac's simplified approach works for me. I'm not eager to see Apple mess with it to please a bunch of people who have been taught to expect bad design.

Click to expand...

Which is why Apple needs to think of the switchers here.

When I bought a Powermac awhile ago, one of the first things I did was put the Pro Mouse in a drawer because I couldn't stand it.
I immediately plugged in a spare Logitech wheelmouse and all was well.
The rest of my family (also long time Windows users) much preferred it over the Pro mouse as well because they could to things a lot easier than they could by using only one button.

Apple's mice are nothing but useless pieces of plastic to me, I'd rather use a $20 wheelmouse that you can buy at Wam-a-lart than any of Apple's.

bwawn · Apr 26, 2003

Here's how Apple can do a successful two-button mouse...

Apple leaves mice with one button because it's less confusing, and to be honest, that's a good thing. I've seen too many people who have no idea why there's more than one button and get the right and left clicks mixed up.

Apple can easily pull off a two-button mouse though without confusing people any more than they would otherwise.

I haven't read the patents for that "rotary mouse," but if Apple were to make something like a standard scroll-wheel mouse now and, instead of treating the pushing down of the scroll wheel as a third button, just make that the second button, they would be just fine. Make it exactly like the pro mouse now (the whole thing is one button), put a scroll wheel near the top that you can also click down on (like most scroll wheel mice these days), and there you have it. A two-button mouse, with a scrollwheel, that won't confuse those who don't like having more than one button.

[edit] Darn you, AndrewMT! Beat me to it! (Plus you mentioned it related to the new mouse patent too. Topped me in every way.)

meghop · Apr 26, 2003

Originally posted by Abstract
Hahaha!!! That's funny. Well, it is unless you're dyslexic. If you are, then sorry. But if you're not, then...........well, hehe

It is kinda funny - the few times I have ever had to use a mouse with two buttons was pure hilarity. I have been using apple's one button mice since 1984, it's surprisingly difficult to teach your hand/brain to do something new after that long. I am one of those mac people that is totally lost in the world of windows and two-button mice - I get frustrated very easily with both of them. I knows what I likes, and two buttons ain't it.

And I just put a new hard drive in my g4 tower, so I'm not totally all thumbs, just with two button mice, lol.

BaghdadBob · Apr 27, 2003

Consider all the bold text like pop-quotes...because I write too much.

Originally posted by paulwhannel
switching to a multiple button mouse would be saying "okay, windows world, you were right these past 25 years, we're going to become more like you to help ourselves survive".

Windows has had multi-button mice since '78?

Anyhoo, anyone who has ever tried to teach someone how to use a computer from scratch (like meghop apparently has) knows there's way too much to try and teach them without going "no....left-click.....before I KILL YOU!!!" all the time.

That being said, anyone who wants a goddamned five button mouse can go buy one and quit expecting Apple to make it for god's sake. You can use that big pokey thing we call a keyboard in the meantime, you will find that it has many magical properties, more than you can contain within even the most multi-buttoned of mice...unless you strap a big, keyboard-shaped thing to your hand, that is.

As far as two buttons goes -- bring it on Apple, and do it better, because Windows two-button mice DO cause problems for the new user...anyone who wants to challenge that is just snotty. But in today's world of the ever-more intuitive interface, contextual menus should not be a chore to access.

How to strike a middle-ground between continuing to reign as the world champion in ease of use for the un-savvy user and being the preferred stock of the professional (which it is) is no easy task. People should quit cursing Apple all the time for not giving people a more complex mouse by default...a replacement really is that cheap.

And apparently (see the last mouse-related thread) some people actually liked the hockey-puck.

What a bunch of freaks, huh?

rainman::|:| · Apr 27, 2003

Originally posted by Shadowfax question: would apple make a big deal about a new mouse/keyboard? like, would it poossibly get it's own release date? [/B]

well, it has to be released on some date, just because there's a release date doesn't mean there will be any hoopla about it... it just means there wasnt a powermac/imac update near enough to justify waiting...

pnw

redAPPLE · Apr 27, 2003

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Has anyone considered that Apple would probably loose notebook sales temporarily if they released a two button mouse? I wouldn't buy the $3300 17" powerbook with one lousy button if I knew a two button trackpad was coming out in the next revision.

Also, the revised mouse could still be one large button with the center of the scrolling circle acting as the second button.

imo, a 2-button mouse is not the same as a 2-"button" trackpad. i got the chance to use a lot of pc notebooks and "right-clicking" the trackpad buttons is idiotic.

with which finger does one "right-click" a trackpad? tapping the pad for double-clicking s ok. left-clicking with the thumb is ok. but right-clicking?

ontopic: my take is, apple would not mess with the one-button mouse design. the pro mouse looks! perfect. i would place a "ctrl" button where the thumb sits. so there is your "ctrl + click".

shadowfax · Apr 27, 2003

Originally posted by paulwhannel
well, it has to be released on some[/i] date, just because there's a release date doesn't mean there will be any hoopla about it... it just means there wasnt a powermac/imac update near enough to justify waiting...

pnw

ok. so do you think they might still make a big deal about wireless freedom and BT whatever?

New Apple Mouse and Keyboard... Soon

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