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View Full Version : I do believe that our folding team is loosing steam




Stelliform
Apr 27, 2003, 08:55 PM
Here are my reasons...

1. We are barely breaking 3k a day..

2. The dates for overtaking the other Mac teams are getting farther away.

3. MacNN shows our power dropping (see below)

4. We are only adding a new member every few days at the best.


Did we max out our MR potential?



Mr. Anderson
Apr 27, 2003, 09:01 PM
But why would our power be dropping? Have people been turning it off and moving on to something else?

That's a bit weird and unfortunate. I'm still running at the same pace as before....:D

D

alset
Apr 27, 2003, 09:03 PM
I think everyone needs to continue to exploit every machine at their disposal. I figure most people get a shot high from steady progression through the folding ranks and then lose interest as they plateau. How about everyone do it for the good of the team, not for themselves?

Dan

iJon
Apr 27, 2003, 09:06 PM
well i used to have it going on 3 machines. it was eating up my battery life and making my powerbook hot so i stopped on that one. my pentium 4 was cranking them out left and right, but i have installed windows a couple of time since then and i am keeping my computer clean with only games. my powermac produces to much heat for my room so i stopped on that. it was fun though, i cranked out a lot of points before i stopped,i think there are still some machines at school lingering around i slipped folding on to, hehe.

iJon

Mr. Anderson
Apr 27, 2003, 09:06 PM
I wonder if things might slow down this summer if a bunch of people are using machines at their schools? That wouldn't be a good thing.....

D

iJon
Apr 27, 2003, 09:13 PM
i think you would make a lot more points if they made it altivec awared because my 2ghz pentium 4 beat my dual 1.25 to the curb and back.

iJon

MrMacMan
Apr 27, 2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by iJon
well i used to have it going on 3 machines. it was eating up my battery life and making my powerbook hot so i stopped on that one. my pentium 4 was cranking them out left and right, but i have installed windows a couple of time since then and i am keeping my computer clean with only games. my powermac produces to much heat for my room so i stopped on that. it was fun though, i cranked out a lot of points before i stopped,i think there are still some machines at school lingering around i slipped folding on to, hehe.

iJon

your P4 clean of only games? wtf, this is like 3 MB! Lets see no preformance loss because it uses idle computer time... why stop? I can see a reason for powerbook, a small reason for powermac and no/little reason for P4.

Sorry for picking on you specifically, but every bit counts, just because we got some new members doesn't mean we can all turn the helping of our team and of the project on hold.

Steradian
Apr 27, 2003, 09:18 PM
Hey I am still trying to crank out dem WU's as fast as I can, I compleated 2 today :D and I have added another comp to my list so not everyone has given up the good fight.

AmbitiousLemon
Apr 27, 2003, 09:18 PM
it could be the new giant proteins they have been handing out. if peple are working on these they will seem inactive for a few weeks. -just a guess.

MrMacMan
Apr 27, 2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
it could be the new giant proteins they have been handing out. if peple are working on these they will seem inactive for a few weeks. -just a guess.

possible, but then Every team would be affected, not only us...

iJon
Apr 27, 2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
your P4 clean of only games? wtf, this is like 3 MB! Lets see no preformance loss because it uses idle computer time... why stop? I can see a reason for powerbook, a small reason for powermac and no/little reason for P4.

Sorry for picking on you specifically, but every bit counts, just because we got some new members doesn't mean we can all turn the helping of our team and of the project on hold.
my pc gets hot enough, running folding no stop bring its it up to about 140-150 degrees. sorry but ive stopped folding, i got tired of leaving my computers on all night and my room getting hot.

iJon

Rower_CPU
Apr 27, 2003, 09:37 PM
'Lemon's got a good point on the new proteins.

I think we should just wait and see. And duke, Summer = higher output at our lab. ;)

AmbitiousLemon
Apr 27, 2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
possible, but then Every team would be affected, not only us...

this is probably true.

MrMacMan
Apr 27, 2003, 10:18 PM
Well, its sad we are losing people, I guess we had an artifical high of members joining and now we are hitting the low... :(

bertinman
Apr 27, 2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
'Lemon's got a good point on the new proteins.

I think we should just wait and see. And duke, Summer = higher output at our lab. ;)

I hear ya, I thought I'd get some awesome results for my lab, but since it's an engineering lab and during the school year, people are in it 24/7 using every comp and running code like crazy, I'm surprized I'm getting anything out of it!

good news though, I got 20 new P4 2.4s coming in 2 weeks that will be added to the folding list, and these things will also be on 24/7 during the summer ;).

and, i got my boss interested in it, and we joked about using a prof's unused 42 node 2200+ linux server... but that ain't happening.

- bert

MrMacMan
Apr 27, 2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
I hear ya, I thought I'd get some awesome results for my lab, but since it's an engineering lab and during the school year, people are in it 24/7 using every comp and running code like crazy, I'm surprized I'm getting anything out of it!

good news though, I got 20 new P4 2.4s coming in 2 weeks that will be added to the folding list, and these things will also be on 24/7 during the summer ;).

and, i got my boss interested in it, and we joked about using a prof's unused 42 node 2200+ linux server... but that ain't happening.

- bert

wow, 20 new P4's, Suddenly things are looking up again, but not at the moment.. :(

howard
Apr 27, 2003, 10:34 PM
well i have been folding for awhile but have cut back alot...though i don't make that much difference with only an ibook. but i had some battery problems and will only fold at night when its plugged in. i don't like how hot it gets and sometimes if i randomly unplug my computer while its folding the battery will die way to quick.

Stelliform
Apr 27, 2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
'Lemon's got a good point on the new proteins.

I think we should just wait and see. And duke, Summer = higher output at our lab. ;)

I think it is more of a natural low as people are getting tired of putting forward an effort. However some of our existing members are giving up some promising information about adding power this summer. I personally think the loss of power is more than big proteins, but I don't think the drop will be permanent. If we keep looking for people and processors....

I created this thread so that we are all aware of the decrease. I noticed the team's drop when I dropped over 300 points today and yet our team output wasn't spectacular.. :(

I think there are alot of members who are losing interest because they are never going to make it even in the top 20. (However it is those members that were propelling us to the top mac team in June, (now July. :())

I just want to stir things up, and get everybody looking again. There is no reason why we cannot pass the two Mac teams ahead of us in June.

Keep folding!

FelixDerKater
Apr 27, 2003, 11:26 PM
These 70 pointers are really slowing me down. I was getting at least a few WUs done a week, but these take forever.

MacFocus
Apr 28, 2003, 12:33 AM
Well, I could be held responsible for dropping output levels. The only problem is I really don't know why some of my machines couldn't connect to the assignment servers. I took them almost a week to connect.

When I came in at work they appeared to be folding again, so everything seems allright for now. Although this shouldn't happen anymore. It cost me a lot of points.

Anyway my P4 2,4 is crunching a 1250 unit protein! That should make up for something.

MrMacMan
Apr 28, 2003, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by MacFocus
Well, I could be held responsible for dropping output levels. The only problem is I really don't know why some of my machines couldn't connect to the assignment servers. I took them almost a week to connect.

When I came in at work they appeared to be folding again, so everything seems allright for now. Although this shouldn't happen anymore. It cost me a lot of points.

Anyway my P4 2,4 is crunching a 1250 unit protein! That should make up for something.

I think we went over this, it is a 1250 frame protien... and yes it is 70 points...

RandomDeadHead
Apr 28, 2003, 07:08 AM
Keep talking and hype it up. It went up a while back because it was all over the forums, now it is droping because all the talk is about the 970 and the music service, not folding. Dont blame me though I still fold 24/7 on my Mac at home.


P.S. I tryied it on the Mac's I have at work for a month, but my electricity bill went up by $125. Its not just folding's fault, we usualy shut off our Macs after hours. Sevral Macs running folding 24 hours a day will suck down some juce.:(

Taft
Apr 28, 2003, 07:49 AM
Well, maybe I'll help reduce that trend.

Until a couple weeks ago, I wasn't running any machines. Then I added my work machine (1.4GHz P4). Then I added my desktop at home (400Mhz G4). Then I added another machine at work (2.4 GHz P4). Then I added my laptop at home (400MHz G4).

Hopefully, I can convince a few people from work to join team MacRumors and help.

I figure adding four machines to the mix has got to be of some help, right?

Taft

jayb2000
Apr 28, 2003, 03:30 PM
so thats good

I don't have fast machines, but I added 3 more this weekend.

8 all together now.

MrMacMan
Apr 28, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by jayb2000
so thats good

I don't have fast machines, but I added 3 more this weekend.

8 all together now.

we might keep see-sawing tho... :(

mc68k
Apr 28, 2003, 03:57 PM
well maybe altivec gromacs will help the mac teams

i'm hopeful.

Stelliform
Apr 28, 2003, 04:06 PM
We are actually chugging along real well right now.... Mabey I jumped the gun, but I would rather rally the troops early than fall behind!

Mr. Anderson
Apr 28, 2003, 05:06 PM
well, 150 or so points and we pass UofA! That's not a bad thing and we'll still have our sights set on the other mac teams, even if the dates have been fluctuating a bit.....

Rower - so what do guestimate that increased output of the lab to be this summer over the current numbers?

D

Rower_CPU
Apr 28, 2003, 05:24 PM
Maybe around 5% each at most for mc68k (he's got the PC lab) and I (eMacs),

So maybe an extra 50-100 points per day, or so. It's not much, but it's definitely not less.

mc68k
Apr 28, 2003, 05:31 PM
the only thing that ppl do on there that actually taxes the CPU is mp3 decoding/playing. and thats not the whole lab and thats not for the whole day. so it's marginal and hard to quantify, but Rower's right that it's definitely something.

bertinman
Apr 28, 2003, 06:50 PM
my labs will show a big difference over the summer, probably a 40-50% increase considering that the times 8am to 11pm won't have 40 people doing work on 30 comps.

there are always lines to use the comps here so people can run their CFD stuff (slow as the computers are, they still try...)

- bert

MrMacMan
Apr 28, 2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by dukestreet
well, 150 or so points and we pass UofA! That's not a bad thing and we'll still have our sights set on the other mac teams, even if the dates have been fluctuating a bit.....

D

see saw...
up and down and up and down... :(

topicolo
Apr 28, 2003, 08:28 PM
If you're running FAH on any PC using a P3, P4, or AthlonXP, you can actually get a 30% speed boost if you use the -advmethods tag to launch the CLI version of the FAH client. It forces the client to download the GROMACS proteins that are faster in processors that can use SIMD instructions.

MrMacMan
Apr 28, 2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
If you're running FAH on any PC using a P3, P4, or AthlonXP, you can actually get a 30% speed boost if you use the -advmethods tag to launch the CLI version of the FAH client. It forces the client to download the GROMACS proteins that are faster in processors that can use SIMD instructions.

yes the gromac units are faster done, but you have a problem in your stament... none of the chips you mention have SIMD, only the G4 does, I would also suggest the new 3.25 folding you can too get Gromac units with the same
-advmethods tag.

t^3
Apr 28, 2003, 08:55 PM
We've now passed UofA! At least for now...

MrMacMan
Apr 28, 2003, 09:11 PM
oh yeah that 6 point diff is holding!

Comeon, lets wipe them! :)

jethroted
Apr 29, 2003, 08:13 AM
I think there is a black hole somewhere around us, because I've lost a significant amount of power, and I don't know where. I should be at a daily rate of about 150, and I'm around 110 right now. This sucks. :mad:

Rower_CPU
Apr 29, 2003, 10:05 AM
OK, UofA is really getting on my nerves. They've almost doubled production in the last couple of days and have been holding steady with us since we first made contact.

Let's get that final push and put them behind us!

jelloshotsrule
Apr 29, 2003, 10:32 AM
well, consider the push made.

my dual 800 is still going!

whooooooo


i am a real american.....

Rower_CPU
Apr 29, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
well, consider the push made.

my dual 800 is still going!

whooooooo


i am a real american.....

Sweet...


...and, yes, you are!

eyelikeart
Apr 29, 2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
my dual 800 is still going!

whooooooo


i am a real american.....

ha ha..yeah...the dual 1GHz here has been crunching away for days now...

it's been bumping me up in the ranks a lot...along with my 1GHz iMac at home... ;)

can I be American also?? :D

ejb190
Apr 29, 2003, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the reminder. I have not been folding since we had to do a complete reinstall on my work computer. I might have to start poking around on my co-worker's computers and get folding started... We have 7 P3 600's here.

Bob Dobbs
Apr 29, 2003, 05:48 PM
just joined - like 2 weeks ago,
got 4 wu done and 108 points...

boy sure goes slow compared to seti.

anyway, i'll be gone for a few weeks in may and my machine will be off, but i'll be back

MrMacMan
Apr 29, 2003, 10:01 PM
I guess Un. Of A overclocked all of their machines because we can't beat them for more than a day!
they are back ahead of us!

jelloshotsrule
Apr 30, 2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
can I be American also?? :D

i forgot to mention that mine is a dual 800 970... not g4. my bad.

as for being american. do you like the old wwf???? ;)

Stelliform
Apr 30, 2003, 09:36 PM
Do my eyes deceive me? We have dropped 5600 points so far today?!?!

MrMacMan
Apr 30, 2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Stelliform
Do my eyes deceive me? We have dropped 5600 points so far today?!?!

it seems SOMEHOW, it is possible.

either: MAJOR glitch or some REALLY HAVE SOMETHING NEW, anyone install a lab and not tell us? :D
(statsman is gone?)

If there wasn't a serverside glitch, GOOD JOB!
Extreme overclockers shows 6,000 POINTS IN LAST 24 HOURS! MacNN says 5,000+!

Rower_CPU
May 1, 2003, 12:42 AM
Losing steam, my eye!!!

Nice job, team. Keep it up! :D

britboy
May 1, 2003, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Losing steam, my eye!!!

Nice job, team. Keep it up! :D


It seems like that kick up the backside was the imputus needed for us to move up a gear! We now only have 1 team gaining on us, down from 3 just a couple of days ago. What happened? Maybe this fah 3.25 has helped up more that expected :)

MrMacMan
May 1, 2003, 06:18 AM
IMPOSSIBLE !
MacNN shows that we had 13,000 Points -- 13,432.7 to be specific.

whie both statsman and overclockers show 5,000+ points in the last 24 hours...

oh well, where is reader when you need him? ;)

someone's gotta e-mail him.

Stelliform
May 1, 2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Losing steam, my eye!!!

Nice job, team. Keep it up! :D

Ok, your abundant optimisim was correct. ;) This time... :p

I feel alot better with Team OSX being overtaken at the end of June beginning of July and not at the end of July.... :)

GO TEAM MACRUMORS!!!!!!!

topicolo
May 5, 2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
none of the chips you mention have SIMD, only the G4 does, I would also suggest the new 3.25 folding you can too get Gromac units with the same
tag.

Umm... you're kinda wrong with that. All of these processors support SSE (Streaming SIMD Extensions):
P4 proof. look at the last point to the right of the Netburst Microarchitecture cell in the table (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/processors/pentium4/index.htm?iid=sr+sim&)
P3 proof. The title shows it all (http://cedar.intel.com/cgi-bin/ids.dll/topic.jsp?catCode=CNN)

Athlon Proof. It supports 3DNow (which are 21 SIMD instructions) and SSE (52 SIMD instructions) (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ComputingSolutions/0,,30_288_1274_3734^3738,00.html)

I hope that proved my point

MrMacMan
May 6, 2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Umm... you're kinda wrong with that. All of these processors support SSE (Streaming SIMD Extensions):
P4 proof. look at the last point to the right of the Netburst Microarchitecture cell in the table (http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/processors/pentium4/index.htm?iid=sr+sim&)
P3 proof. The title shows it all (http://cedar.intel.com/cgi-bin/ids.dll/topic.jsp?catCode=CNN)

Athlon Proof. It supports 3DNow (which are 21 SIMD instructions) and SSE (52 SIMD instructions) (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ComputingSolutions/0,,30_288_1274_3734^3738,00.html)

I hope that proved my point

Sorry I was refering to the G4 Specific Altevec. I know that chips have SSE, but very few programs are coded for it, I believe even less than Altevec.

I was also refering to gromac, which IS G4 supported with Altevec, and they aparently did a good job on it.

topicolo
May 7, 2003, 06:07 PM
Still, by definition, SSE instructions are SIMD, just like the altivec instructions. There are quite a few programs that support them on the pc side--in addition to a large percentage of the games that do come out for them.
Still, Gromacs is fully optimized for SSE and 3DNOW! so that's not really an issue. The new core release is helping practically all of the platforms.

MrMacMan
May 7, 2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Still, by definition, SSE instructions are SIMD, just like the altivec instructions. There are quite a few programs that support them on the pc side--in addition to a large percentage of the games that do come out for them.
Still, Gromacs is fully optimized for SSE and 3DNOW! so that's not really an issue. The new core release is helping practically all of the platforms.
If I'm not mistaken (god please let me be right) Altevec has a 128 Bit line, I think that would make it faster than SSE and 3DNow!... but still...

pEZ
May 8, 2003, 02:35 PM
As of now, it does seem that the team is slowing down a bit - less than 3,000 points yesterday? uh - oh.....

britboy
May 8, 2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by pEZ
As of now, it does seem that the team is slowing down a bit - less than 3,000 points yesterday? uh - oh.....


I don't think it's necessarily a case of us slowing down as folding holding everyone up. If you look at the stats for other teams, they've gone down recently too.
From Statsman: http://www.statsman.org/folding2stats/html/index_rate.gif It does give the impression that general production has dipped slightly.

It's probably something to do with a large number of big-pointers or something like that. Don't worry too much yet; we're still gaining on the teams above us :)

pEZ
May 8, 2003, 03:38 PM
Point taken - still worried about General [M]ayhem though.

britboy
May 8, 2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by pEZ
Point taken - still worried about General [M]ayhem though.


Same here. They're the only team with a realistic chance of passing us any time soon. I don't think there's much we can do to prevent it. It's some consolation though that we should have passed a couple more teams before then.

MrMacMan
May 8, 2003, 11:03 PM
Its like someone is turning off the power...

Currently we have 4, yes, 4 teams on our tail... we all know about general mayhem, but 'Free-DC'??? comeon people, what the hell are we doing when we lose to them!
Our points peaked on 5/3 with 4k... after that less and less and less... we didn't 3k for 2 days in a row... bah.

Rower_CPU
May 8, 2003, 11:06 PM
Yeah, this is a little disconcerting. Can anyone identify if it's just lots of people dropping off, or if it's one of the big producers, of if 3.25+gromacs is actually slowing us down...grrr...:mad:

FelixDerKater
May 8, 2003, 11:45 PM
When you get a WU that takes around two weeks to process, it looks like you aren't contributing during those weeks.

MrMacMan
May 9, 2003, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by FelixDerKater
When you get a WU that takes around two weeks to process, it looks like you aren't contributing during those weeks.

where do you get the from?

It registers that you send the WU back completed and it shows up in hours... not days...

pEZ
May 9, 2003, 02:53 AM
For example, my computer, which is folding a 70 pointer right now. It's been folding for about 5 days, and I'm pretty positive that there are at least 9 days left on it. So it looks like i'm doing nothing. Feels like it too.

Wardofsky
May 9, 2003, 03:21 AM
This has probably been asked before but WHAT IS THE WHOLE FOLDING thing.

Thanks for the answer (A pre-emptive strike on courtesy).

eyelikeart
May 9, 2003, 07:30 AM
Well, I'll be definitely loosing some steam in my efforts. The DP at work has freaked out and I cannot use the damned mouse on it!!! :mad:

So, until we get this thing resolved, I'm down to 1 processor on my iMac.

britboy
May 9, 2003, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Wardofsky
This has probably been asked before but WHAT IS THE WHOLE FOLDING thing.

Thanks for the answer (A pre-emptive strike on courtesy).


It's precisely for questions such as this that the folding FAQ was created (see here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=21908)).

Any more questions should have answers at the stanford website (http://folding.stanford.edu).

britboy
May 9, 2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
Well, I'll be definitely loosing some steam in my efforts. The DP at work has freaked out and I cannot use the damned mouse on it!!! :mad:

So, until we get this thing resolved, I'm down to 1 processor on my iMac.


I, on the other hand, have just managed to get my tibook 500 back onto folding. I know it's not much, but surely every little helps :) It seems to go haywire when I update it to anything higher than 10.2.3, so I'll just keep it at that. Works fine like this anyway, and I won't keep losing my work on it.

gottfrid
May 9, 2003, 09:03 AM
sorry for beeing late to the party

just installed today

bertinman
May 9, 2003, 01:24 PM
i found a few machines that go to sleep for 99% of the time... now that I set them to always be on, maybe I can get a few more WU's in.

- bert

crazytom
May 9, 2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Yeah, this is a little disconcerting. Can anyone identify if it's just lots of people dropping off, or if it's one of the big producers, of if 3.25+gromacs is actually slowing us down...grrr...:mad:

3.25 slowed me down a little bit (but not for programming reasons). I waited for a WU to finish on one of my machines (using graphical interface). I thought it was transmitted, but it never showed up in my stats....go figure.
The first unit this machine received was a gromacs...and my DP got two 70-pointers to work on...

MrMacMan
May 10, 2003, 10:58 PM
Its offical, we now have 0 conquests to pass in all of the rest of may... yes we slowed so much that this is true.

pEZ
May 10, 2003, 11:41 PM
Call your friends! Family! Lie, cheat, deceive!

Okay maybe that's going too far to get people to fold. How's about everyone asking someone to fold nicely?

MrMacMan
May 10, 2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by pEZ
Call your friends! Family! Lie, cheat, deceive!

Okay maybe that's going too far to get people to fold. How's about everyone asking someone to fold nicely?

yeah yeah yeah, I only have os 9 comps besides this one so my friends are gonna need to help me on this one.

bertinman
May 11, 2003, 12:08 AM
Out of curiousity,

how many people who fold on macs at all, switched to gromacs?


- bert

MrMacMan
May 11, 2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by bertinman
Out of curiousity,

how many people who fold on macs at all, switched to gromacs?


- bert

me, I just got a gromac unit, see my thread. ;)

bertinman
May 11, 2003, 01:47 PM
sorry, stupid question.

thought somehow we would be able to get a percentage...

- bert