Petition - Apple Features for International Users

[edesignuk]

Not started by me, but I do think it is worth signing if you live outside the US, so many features are not available if you live outside the US. Make your voice heard...maybe! :rolleyes:

http://www.petitiononline.com/AppleInt/petition.html

[arn]

I doubt that Apple isn't aware that there's significant interest outside the US.

Other people have pointed out, it's likely more due to technical/legal/cost reasons than Apple not wanting to.

arn

[Jaykay]

Originally posted by arn

Other people have pointed out, it's likely more due to technical/legal/cost reasons than Apple not wanting to.


I agree. I assume that for the music service, the "big 5" have different completely different setups outside america (especially legally) so it might take them a long time to set it up. But is it just me or were you surprised when Steve said they had 200,000 songs. I though they would have more, especially with the Big 5 on board - or are they only letting apple use a certain amount of their music?

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by Jaykay
I agree. I assume that for the music service, the "big 5" have different completely different setups outside america (especially legally) so it might take them a long time to set it up. But is it just me or were you surprised when Steve said they had 200,000 songs. I though they would have more, especially with the Big 5 on board - or are they only letting apple use a certain amount of their music?

I think it's just that they haven't gotten everything online yet. Remember, he said that they were, in several cases, going to masters to get the songs. This takes a lot of work. Since they've been working on it for 18 months, my guess is they've actually been getting the songs ready for less than a year. 200,000 ain't so bad in that light.

[jaguarx]

That petition is WIERD. When i signed it was like 1300, now it's like 270, what the hell?????

[Squire]

Hi.

Some of you may have already seen this. It's a petition. I'm only posting it because of my huge disappointment when I realized that the iTunes Music Store was for US customers only. I was even more depressed after browsing. At last count, there were about 3400 names.

Anyway, if you live outside the US (or if you just agree with what it has to say), you might want to sign this petition.

Thanks,

Squire

http://www.petitiononline.com/AppleInt/petition.html

[steeleclipse]

is there any way to get this to the main page... MODERATOR?

[Squire]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
is there any way to get this to the main page... MODERATOR?

The Main Page? That would be cool.

Seriously, though, the petition also brings up the point of the iPhoto books. After I read it, I sort of thought that, if the trend continues, international users are geting ripped off.

My 24 Won ($.02 at today's exchange rate)

Squire

[MrMacMan]

The best you can do currently is submit as a story and link to this thread, and you can keep posting so it stays on the right side bar of the main page.

[melchior]

Originally posted by Squire
Hi.

At last count, there were close to 4000 names.

http://www.petitiononline.com/AppleInt/petition.html

why would you say that when there are 3418 as of this minute, a good 34 minutes later than your statement....

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...

[Squire]

Originally posted by melchior
why would you say that when there are 3418 as of this minute, a good 34 minutes later than your statement....

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...

Sorry. I thought it said 3800. My post has been edited accordingly.

From SpyMac: "Back in January, a petition was launched for tab support in Safari and collected more than 4000 digital signatures."

Maybe it had an impact and maybe it didn't. For 15 seconds of one's time, it can't hurt.

Squire

[steeleclipse]

actually... the idea to put superdrives in powerbooks was from a petition... AND you will notice that in ALL of Steve's presentation's, he talks about why new features were implemented, and how most of them were requested BY APPLE USERS. For proof, watch yesterday's webcast (ipod dock, usb2, etc.)

we are also missing a very important point... international sales brings larger profits. Will Steve argue with that???

[Kwyjibo]

i think the superdrive was a logical progression, typically pettions do nothing, and it doesn't need to be on the main page......

[unfaded]

this is dumb...it's because of infastructure reasons, not just because they don't want to. geezus.

[nichrome]

Before you label it as dumb, consider that they're spending money they're getting worldwide to create services that benefit either primarily US customers (Sherlock) or only US customers (iTunes Music Store, iPhoto prints/books).

The point isn't that Apple should bring the iTunes Music Store to Europe, Asia, etc. Apple knows there's demand, and they're working on arranging supply on that front. The point is that they've skipped bringing many other, smaller but still useful services to these markets. For instance, the iPhoto prints service.

Also, many international users would rather see Apple develop services and features that benefit all users as equally as possible. Having everything launch US first or US only is bad politics, bad PR.

[melchior]

you got page 2, for a petition with very questionable usefulness.

happy? :)

[unfaded]

Originally posted by nichrome
Also, many international users would rather see Apple develop services and features that benefit all users as equally as possible. Having everything launch US first or US only is bad politics, bad PR.

No. Politics are based around Economics. The rest of the world may be bigger population-wise, by the US has 50% of the world's wealth. Macs are not cheap, and neither are the things they use. Bringing it out in the home country of a company which has expensive products when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by far is not bad politics, it's common sense.

I hate it, and I don't like this country. But economically speaking (and yes, I am economist), it's the logical choice to make.

[synp]

IMO this is both a legal and commercial issue.

In many countries, music is not distributed directly by the big 5, but by some local distributor with exclusive rights. If Sony sells me a song, they may be in breach of their contract with the local distributor. They will eventually have new agreements with the local distributors where they get some part of the 60c that Apple pays them. After all, they do spend money on promoting the various artists in their respective countries.
There is also the question of local artists. These may have contracts with local companies (sometimes the same as those local distributors). Apple may feel that it is wrong to start the service in, say, Israel if they don't have Sarit Hadad's songs up there.

In some countries there may also be a customs issue. Buying a song for a buck is still importing.

As for iPhoto's prints and books, it makes no sense to print pictures or books in the US and ship them all over the world. They would probably want to come to some agreement with local photofinishers. It seems incredible that they haven't found such at least in Europe, Australia and SE Asia. My guess is that they're not trying hard enough.

[nichrome]

Originally posted by unfaded
when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by farLet's be realistic. Right now, the US is among the most fragile economies of the western world, and has the largest number of people living under the poverty line in relation to population of the western countries. The floundering US economy is why the Euro's price has jumped from around 0.9 USD to 1.096 recently, showing that the faith in the US economy is weak. In terms of expensing power, the population of the United States does not make up 50 % of the world economy, unlike you seem to suggest. The US as a country and as a government does hold a lot of money, but it's the people who buy music and other goods.

[dekator]

Originally posted by melchior

anyway, a petition won't do anything. i'm australian and i live in japan. i would benefit from such a move by apple... however, face facts: the applemusic store may eventually be available in select other countries but your petition won't affect any decisions...

1) I don't think it's a legal or technical problem. a. because Apple is an (supposedly) international company and could have talked to representatives in other countries or, indeed, have worked out contracts for (at least specific) other countries. Every company has to do that when launching a product. Defending Apple here seems a little silly. b. It's certainly not a technical problem as Apple provides (as they say themselves) oceans of bits anyway. In fact the iTunes Music Store is easily accessible from Europe and pretty darn fast, too. That cannot be the problem.
I guess the problem is that Apple doesn't have competent staff to do negotiations or serious localizations etc.. They just can't do it, they're too small, too narrow minded. There is still no international Sherlock channel, there is no iPhoto ordering service. Take Germany: People that have developed respective Sherlock channels have been banned from doing so by Apple (!). Online photo services are entirely commonplace. It would be the easiest thing in the world to hook up with a company for cooperation. Only Mac users are left out.
Market share: What good does it do when you walk around telling people how innovative Apple is when, at the same moment, you have to tell them that "that's all only in the US". Especially in the current mood that will make people say "crap, those monomanic Americans".
Frankly, it surprises me that Apple still has the market share it has outside the US. We're paying much more for much less value. Apple is having us on, but maybe not for long.

2) How come you say it is no use. If anything is of use, it's that. Whenever there were feature requests and petitions it helped. I think this will help Apple understand they have to review their policies. I firmly believe that the petition will receive consideration and thus affect decisions.

3) Preview: If Apple doesn't throw around the stearing wheel some time soon, it will quickly be "US only". That would, however, fit the American Zeitgeist.

[nichrome]

Originally posted by synp
As for iPhoto's prints and books, it makes no sense to print pictures or books in the US and ship them all over the world. They would probably want to come to some agreement with local photofinishers. It seems incredible that they haven't found such at least in Europe, Australia and SE Asia. My guess is that they're not trying hard enough. Exactly, especially seeing as the iPhoto prints service in the US is the result of partnerships with companies that have strong presences in the rest of the world, too. It's not like Apple would've needed to go looking for partners in the first place -- they could've just expanded their partnerships with the companies they're currently working with in the US to provide iPhoto prints and books worldwide.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by Squire
The Main Page? That would be cool.

Seriously, though, the petition also brings up the point of the iPhoto books. After I read it, I sort of thought that, if the trend continues, international users are geting ripped off.



Squire

international users are getting! :)

ripped off????

WHA???

if Apple does not want "Old Europe's" money, then that's their problem, right?

[melchior]

Originally posted by dekator
1) I don't think it's a legal or technical problem.

i believe it is a legal issue. statutory copyright laws will impede many possible endeavors, while in the US those laws are written by the corporations anyway so it doesn't matter.

take a look at the EU, they have standardised a lot of the copyright laws, however, they just, somehow, seemed to miss the music industry and thus it stays a very closed and proprietary market.

japan on the other hand is very open and i suspect a service here would be very eary since no one gives a damn about copyright anyway. the country where the equivalent of blockbuster rents huge libraries of cd's and warns that some cd's are 80 minutes instead of 72 minutes... and proceeds to sell you the correct cdr's.

[nichrome]

Originally posted by melchior
japan on the other hand is very open and i suspect a service here would be very eary since no one gives a damn about copyright anyway.Japan is quite strict about intellectual property rights. No country is willingly loose on those, despite the fact that the part of Asia to the west of Japan is home to lots of piracy.

Also, US companies trying to break into the Japanese marketplace are likely to face an uphill battle due to the fact that Japan as a market greatly prefers Japanese goods. For instance, Japan is the only market of the major three market regions (USA, Europe, Japan) in which Microsoft's Xbox is currently selling less than Nintendo's GameCube.

Apple does have a fan base in Japan -- a strong one, too -- but the company has traditionally been a player in the PC business. By selling music goods and services in Japan it would be going head-on with Japan-native Sony, which has been stiff competition for Apple even in the PC marketplace, even though Sony's main business is home electronics, including music, plus the related services. So it'd be (or it will be) a tough battle.

Plus, you'd have to consider how big an impact it makes that Japan is not a very English-oriented market -- foreign goods need to be heavily localized, dubbed, et cetera since English is not as widely understood there as in some other parts of the world (Europe, for instance). Thus the Music Store would need to contain a fair bit of Japanese artists in order to do well, I'd wager.

[chewbaccapits]

Originally posted by unfaded
No. Politics are based around Economics. The rest of the world may be bigger population-wise, by the US has 50% of the world's wealth. Macs are not cheap, and neither are the things they use. Bringing it out in the home country of a company which has expensive products when their home country holds the most wealth out of any other nation by far is not bad politics, it's common sense.

I hate it, and I don't like this country. But economically speaking (and yes, I am economist), it's the logical choice to make.

Great arguement til you stated that you didn't like the US...Leave if you don't like it :)

[scan300]

The iTunes shop is dissimilar to the other localised services that iApps/Sherlock offer only to US customers. All the other services are really local services and so the energy needs to be put in via the regional Apple branches to implement a local solution. (eg the Yellow pages sherlock channel really needs to show my country's listings not US). But the iTunes music store is an online export model. It's instant and convenient, and will work internationally from the US.

Note that the opening pane of the music store for people outside the US states that 'The iTunes Music Store is not available in your country yet.'

Maybe it's already in the pipeline.

I assume this is a contractual issue as Apple already ships its hardware and software internationally from it's online store, so the infrastructure is there. It costs v nothing to allow the iTunes store to finalise the transaction to a billing address outside the US. It may however harm the iTunes suppliers' interests internationally if they allowed this service to go outside. They are probably trying to negotiate a sticky contract, if at all.

By the way, I'm in Australia and would like to see these services in my country. And I did sign the petition.

[dobbin]

I don't understand why Apple are always so secretive about everything.

I realise it doesn't make sense to announce new hardware months in advance as it will harm sales now, but it wouldn't hurt them at all to say something like "We're sorry the Music Store is not available in Europe yet. This is because we need to negotiate contracts with all the different music companies there. We're already doing this and hope to launch the service later this year".

If they said something like that then nobody would get upset at them, and I can't see how this would harm their business. In fact it might sway someone who was choosing between a mac and a PC in the meantime.

I hope they are talking to music companies over here already, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Stella]

Unfortunately, the petition website isn't working at all.. I get a page containing links page.

[dstorey]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
international users are getting! :)

ripped off????

WHA???

if Apple does not want "Old Europe's" money, then that's their problem, right?

what about new europe and usa's trusted brother in arms over here....:-)

[dobbin]

I take back everything I said above! I just heard Apple's UK General Manager on the radio. I have posted details here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=25735)

Dobbin.

[adamberti]

While I am frustrated that Apple isnt allowing this internationally, I can see the problems already. Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content, specially American stations which are broadcasting up here. As a result, some US stations play 30 or 45 seconds of just plain video of my city (not sure if its different in other cities) - sometimes a couple times a day - just some simple panning of the rivers or of the downtown or birds. So I'm really worried that something like this would be required to have x% Canadian content. As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music. This distribution model just seems like something that would get regulated - as far as I know the regular record stores do not have to carry a certain percentage of Canadian content - it would be bad business. So there is a good chance an Apple Music Store wouldnt be either.

So here's hoping to a Canadian version real soon - that doesnt have Ashley Macisaac all over the main page.

[steeleclipse]

thanks to whoever put this on one of the main pages...

us international people appreciate it :D

[Squire]

Originally posted by adamberti
Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content, specially American stations which are broadcasting up here. As a result, some US stations play 30 or 45 seconds of just plain video of my city (not sure if its different in other cities) - sometimes a couple times a day - just some simple panning of the rivers or of the downtown or birds.

That's hilarious. Makes me want to move back to the Great White North. I doubt that there will be any problems with getting the music service in Canada. Remember NAFTA? Also, there's already a fair amount of Canadian talent that has found success in the US market- Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Neil Young. (Maybe they'd just flood the virtual shelves with Celine Dion tracks.) :)

A couple of other points:

1) Some people seem genuinely angered by the petition idea. I don't completely agree with the wording, but if there's even a small chance that it will get Apple's attention, why not?

2) Economics and legalities aside, if people the world over can order books from Amazon.com, then anyone with a credit card should be able to download music files from Apple's Music Store. I'm sure Apple will figure out a way to do this in many countries. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Squire

[steeleclipse]

Originally posted by adamberti
While I am frustrated that Apple isnt allowing this internationally, I can see the problems already. Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. So I'm really worried that something like this would be required to have x% Canadian content. As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music. This distribution model just seems like something that would get regulated - as far as I know the regular record stores do not have to carry a certain percentage of Canadian content - it would be bad business. So there is a good chance an Apple Music Store wouldnt be either.

.

Have no fear. CanCon cannot touch the internet. According to the CRTC, it is too new to be regulated... I hate CanCon myself, telling us what we have to watch or listen to. Isn't that a form of communism?

I am totally in agreeance. Some people take advantage of the fact that their stuff will get played just so the station can abide by CanCon regulations. I think it generally produces wannabe artsy crap and general nonsensical garbage

[adamberti]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
Have no fear. CanCon cannot touch the internet. According to the CRTC, it is too new to be regulated... I hate CanCon myself, telling us what we have to watch or listen to. Isn't that a form of communism?

I am totally in agreeance. Some people take advantage of the fact that their stuff will get played just so the station can abide by CanCon regulations. I think it generally produces wannabe artsy crap and general nonsensical garbage

Well Thats good to hear, I'm sure that CanCon (I'd never even heard that name before) will get its way eventually in some form or another.

Originally posted by Squire
That's hilarious. Makes me want to move back to the Great White North. I doubt that there will be any problems with getting the music service in Canada. Remember NAFTA? Also, there's already a fair amount of Canadian talent that has found success in the US market- Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, The Barenaked Ladies, Neil Young. (Maybe they'd just flood the virtual shelves with Celine Dion tracks.)

I really don't think its worth coming back up here just for that - the images of rivers and birds is the better Canadian content - if you've ever watched CBC during the day - you know what I'm talking about :D

I'm not sure I understand you point about the Canadians doing well in the US....but I don't think it's a question of where the Singer/Songwriter is producing from - just where they're born. As you may or may not have noticed, Canadians are obsessed with telling you who's famous in the US - but is actually from Canada; singers, actors, comedians, hockey players, etc.

As for the petition - it cant hurt anyone, it takes 15 seconds to sign, so I don't see why people seem angry about it or call it stupid. Apple does listen to its customers - and thats one of the reasons they create stuff that we oogle over, and enjoy so much. There's no harm done by this.

[gwangung]

As long as people realize that the ultimate target is not Apple, but the various record companies and local distributors that control the rights, then the petition is pretty useful. It does no good to get angry with Apple, when it's the record companies that control the rights.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by gwangung
As long as people realize that the ultimate target is not Apple, but the various record companies and local distributors that control the rights, then the petition is pretty useful. It does no good to get angry with Apple, when it's the record companies that control the rights.

This petition isn't only about the Music Service.
Reading this thread it's pretty obvious to me that many non-US Mac users feel a bit "left behind" on the whole. Over here in Europe we are used to late hardware shipping, or non-english language supported software and so on, but leaving out the other fun stuff like Sherlock yellow pages, iPhoto print services and now the Music Service starts to add up.
I also feel it's time that Apple looked more across the borders, and the oceans....

[Winston Smith]

I'm glad to here the right noises from Apple about the music service coming to international markets.

But I want to know what timescales are being aimed at since i don't trust Apple on this after Sherlock and iPhoto. I will also be extremely angry if the effort goes into bringing the service to Windows before International Apple customers as already seems to be the case.

I suspect Apple can't be bothered and will hide behind no announcements on future products and legal issues.

My tuppence ha'penny

[iJon]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
actually... the idea to put superdrives in powerbooks was from a petition... AND you will notice that in ALL of Steve's presentation's, he talks about why new features were implemented, and how most of them were requested BY APPLE USERS. For proof, watch yesterday's webcast (ipod dock, usb2, etc.)

we are also missing a very important point... international sales brings larger profits. Will Steve argue with that???
you think they put superdrives in laptops because of a petetion,HA. they would have put them in if they could, nobody made them that small. And i dont think apple requests come from petetion, do you ever notice the feedback buttons in apps and on their website. same thing with the music store, you dont see people making add linkin park music threads, you use the feedback button.

iJon

[MacFan25]

IMO this is not that Apple doesn't want to offer the music service to international customers, it is just all of the legal stuff that would probably be tough to get through.

[jtrascap]

I have friends working in the banking segment in the Netherlands, and if we're any indication, the issue isn't with Apple. Most of these small countries protect their banking systems with legal walls - not too high, just costly to climb over.

Want to use MasterCard here? Generally no problem, since MC has been the "appointed" debit card for RaboBank and ABN-AMBRO (the 2 biggies). But Visa? Banks can charge a 20x higher rate to shopkeepers for using Visa (on average - depends on the client and their power with the bank, to a great extent). And don't even get me started on my poor old Amex.

Then there are tax authorities who decide on placing a 17-33% tax (based on the country) on goods and services. You can't just make the charge in the US and not expect countries to look for import duties (but you can try). Just try to get a DVD from the US via Amazon - sometimes the tax man gets you, sometimes not. But increasingly, he does.

My point? For international trade to work you need to have international ways to pay for it, and to have predictable results for the consumer. This is the big bugaboo with the EU right now - the dropping or merging of exclusive levies and taxes, those walls that have kept them apart for so long have to be merged and erased. I'm not holding my breath, but free commerce has to flow here at some time in the future.

Could Apple allow a smaller profit for one card, in one country? How about 20 countries? Would the consumer mind getting penalized with a higher tax because one song comes out of the US and another out of Belgium? Could you imagine the mess? I can.

More likely, this is an entirely legal issue. Apple's expansion into Europe with stores and a greater presence will help, but we're talking a year down the road.

For now, there's always those mailboxes you can get in Delaware...

[Trimix]

I signed too -
Found already more than 40 songs I would like to download -

I think petitions are helpful and my thanks to the initiator.
Better than sitting on our hands

Now I shall wait for the Apple - Bookstore oh yeah and the Apple Video Rental scheme which I can all download into my i Pod with color screen

;)

Greetings from Switzerland (one of the economies which is far worse off, than the USofA ...)

[crassusad44]

I'm as angry as everyone else that I can not, for the time beeing, use the iTunes Music Store, but Apple is working on it, as this quote from MacCentral shows:

For now, Apple's music service is for users in the United States only. The iTunes Music Store requires a valid credit card with a U.S. billing address in order to purchase music.

"It has to do with the way the record industry is structured and our contracts with the record companies -- we have every intension of expanding the service internationally."

Link: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/04/28/appleanalysts/

[roy_g_biv]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
This petition isn't only about the Music Service.
Reading this thread it's pretty obvious to me that many non-US Mac users feel a bit "left behind" on the whole. Over here in Europe we are used to late hardware shipping, or non-english language supported software and so on, but leaving out the other fun stuff like Sherlock yellow pages, iPhoto print services and now the Music Service starts to add up.
I also feel it's time that Apple looked more across the borders, and the oceans....

how large/small is apple compared to other software/computer manufacturers?

in all honesty, it sounds like people are complaining about software that is essentially free to anyone owning a mac. apple resources are probably better spent than logging theater showings for the 3451315q21f countries that make up the other 50% of apple customers. would any of these petition signers be willing to pay an extra fee for international service? i doubt it.

and as far as the itunes music store goes... sounds like sour grapes to me. apple presumably had enough trouble getting the big 5 in the U.S. to agree on a service, much less all the international copyright holders. U.S. labels will never release material in other countries where their rights means squat -- in addition to pissing off labels who might have foreign distro rights to U.S. content.

[jtrascap]

Originally posted by adamberti
...Here in Canada, the government likes to protect Canadian talent. I know in TV broadcast liscencing, every station has to have a certain percentage of Canadian content...As much as I like my country, some of the stuff we produce as a result of these laws is crap - and I like my international music.

But hey - you guys produce Red Green, so the initiative isn't *all* bad! (Is it, Harold?)

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by roy_g_biv
how large/small is apple compared to other software/computer manufacturers?

in all honesty, it sounds like people are complaining about software that is essentially free to anyone owning a mac. apple resources are probably better spent than logging theater showings for the 3451315q21f countries that make up the other 50% of apple customers. would any of these petition signers be willing to pay an extra fee for international service? i doubt it.

and as far as the itunes music store goes... sounds like sour grapes to me. apple presumably had enough trouble getting the big 5 in the U.S. to agree on a service, much less all the international copyright holders. U.S. labels will never release material in other countries where their rights means squat -- in addition to pissing off labels who might have foreign distro rights to U.S. content.
We DO pay extra for international service - we pay extra for everything. Macs themsleves and the software that goes on them. I think we've paid enough so that Apple should pay attention to those outside the US. Your response was the sort of arrogance that SOME Americans seem to have that pisses off everyone else in the world. As I mentioned in a thread elsewhere - How happy would you be if apple launched a non-US only service. Or one that only was for Californians or Texans or whatever?
As for copyright laws - amazingly yes we have those too and they're just as powerful as yours are. We just don't have stupid DMCA type laws yet... The big 5 argument is bogus too. They're global companies and don't just operate in the US. They own a lot of the labels over here in one way or another. Sony is a huge music company and guess what? It ain't American.

[Trimix]

Well spoken Caveman
:D

[roy_g_biv]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
We DO pay extra for international service - we pay extra for everything. Macs themsleves and the software that goes on them. I think we've paid enough so that Apple should pay attention to those outside the US. Your response was the sort of arrogance that SOME Americans seem to have that pisses off everyone else in the world. As I mentioned in a thread elsewhere - How happy would you be if apple launched a non-US only service. Or one that only was for Californians or Texans or whatever?
As for copyright laws - amazingly yes we have those too and they're just as powerful as yours are. We just don't have stupid DMCA type laws yet... The big 5 argument is bogus too. They're global companies and don't just operate in the US. They own a lot of the labels over here in one way or another. Sony is a huge music company and guess what? It ain't American.

apple is an american computer manufacturer, which also means they are subject to interntational tariffs on exported goods, not to mention interntational shipping fees. i'm no specialist on international tax law, but a top of the line imac costs 20-25% more in the UK than in America. comparable ibm netvista-a pc's start at £420 GBP and $480 USD (thats £300 GBP) respectively. so it's not just apple who's guilty of price gaps. you're just upset because you're already paying a premium for a boutique computer. (and, last time i checked, itunes and sherlock are both still free)

so what was that about arrogance i seem to have in my response? does it sound something like the sort of "ignorance" SOME you brits seem to have? =P

as far as your copyright argument, "The big 5 argument is bogus" is.. well.. bogus. yes some labels fall under the same umbrella, but not all copyrighted material is available in all regions. sony *is* a huge music company. and you're right, it "ain't" american. but that's not saying i can get puffy ami yumi or faye wong music in america -- because there's no market for it here. so there's no reason for sony to copyright it in america. actually, i probably could get them, if i were willing to pay more for an import. you know what goddamnit, that really pisses me off! i think i'll start my own petition.

i'm not saying it won't happen, it will. eventually. nor am i saying you don't deserve the same services everyone else in the u.s. gets. you do. i'm not trying to be arrogant, but this notion of "now now now!" doesn't help gain my sympathy. give things a little time to iron out before you start calling foul.

[Vlade]

One reason its not international yet is because the big 5 wanted to test this out on a small % of world. 1/20th of the worlds population times a 3% market share will let the record companies know if this is going to work on the entire world with PCs too.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by roy_g_biv
apple is an american computer manufacturer, which also means they are subject to interntational tariffs on exported goods, not to mention interntational shipping fees. i'm no specialist on international tax law, but a top of the line imac costs 20-25% more in the UK than in America. comparable ibm netvista-a pc's start at £420 GBP and $480 USD (thats £300 GBP) respectively. so it's not just apple who's guilty of price gaps. you're just upset because you're already paying a premium for a boutique computer. (and, last time i checked, itunes and sherlock are both still free)

so what was that about arrogance i seem to have in my response? does it sound something like the sort of "ignorance" SOME you brits seem to have? =P

as far as your copyright argument, "The big 5 argument is bogus" is.. well.. bogus. yes some labels fall under the same umbrella, but not all copyrighted material is available in all regions. sony *is* a huge music company. and you're right, it "ain't" american. but that's not saying i can get puffy ami yumi or faye wong music in america -- because there's no market for it here. so there's no reason for sony to copyright it in america. actually, i probably could get them, if i were willing to pay more for an import. you know what goddamnit, that really pisses me off! i think i'll start my own petition.

i'm not saying it won't happen, it will. eventually. nor am i saying you don't deserve the same services everyone else in the u.s. gets. you do. i'm not trying to be arrogant, but this notion of "now now now!" doesn't help gain my sympathy. give things a little time to iron out before you start calling foul.
Apple isn't an "an American computer manufacturer". They are an American computer designer - most of their stuff is made in Taiwan so we all pay import duty. An exception would be my powermac which was made in Ireland (so no import duty as it's in the EU) but it's still more expensive then it would be in the US. I don't mind paying more for a 'boutique computer'. I mind paying a lot more than you do for the same one.

iTunes and Sherlock are indeed free but the point is that some (or nearly all in the case of Sherlock) of their functionality is crippled outside of the US.

Sony or whoever do not have to make a choice as to whether to copyright something as copyright is automatic so "puffy ami yummy" are already covered. I bet they're quite relieved.

Ignorance or arrogance. Yes we've got that too but at least we don't think that as long as we're OK that's all that matters...

This is caveman_uk typing in one of the "3451315q21f" countries that is outside the US and consequently doesn't matter.

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by roy_g_biv
apple is an american computer manufacturer, which also means they are subject to interntational tariffs on exported goods, not to mention interntational shipping fees. i'm no specialist on international tax law, but a top of the line imac costs 20-25% more in the UK than in America. comparable ibm netvista-a pc's start at £420 GBP and $480 USD (thats £300 GBP) respectively. so it's not just apple who's guilty of price gaps. you're just upset because you're already paying a premium for a boutique computer. (and, last time i checked, itunes and sherlock are both still free)

so what was that about arrogance i seem to have in my response? does it sound something like the sort of "ignorance" SOME you brits seem to have? =P

as far as your copyright argument, "The big 5 argument is bogus" is.. well.. bogus. yes some labels fall under the same umbrella, but not all copyrighted material is available in all regions. sony *is* a huge music company. and you're right, it "ain't" american. but that's not saying i can get puffy ami yumi or faye wong music in america -- because there's no market for it here. so there's no reason for sony to copyright it in america. actually, i probably could get them, if i were willing to pay more for an import. you know what goddamnit, that really pisses me off! i think i'll start my own petition.

i'm not saying it won't happen, it will. eventually. nor am i saying you don't deserve the same services everyone else in the u.s. gets. you do. i'm not trying to be arrogant, but this notion of "now now now!" doesn't help gain my sympathy. give things a little time to iron out before you start calling foul.

The reason we cry foul now is because we're already tired of waiting for the vaguely promised iphoto and sherlock functionality.
Some how I feel the US would go nuts if forced to wait for the next Harry Potter book until 2004 whilst we Brits merrily carry on a thread re the plotline??:o

[iJon]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
The reason we cry foul now is because we're already tired of waiting for the vaguely promised iphoto and sherlock functionality.
Some how I feel the US would go nuts if forced to wait for the next Harry Potter book until 2004 whilst we Brits merrily carry on a thread re the plotline??:o
i would just order it from amazon uk and pay little bit more in shipping

iJon

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by iJon
i would just order it from amazon uk and pay little bit more in shipping

iJon
I wish we had that option with iTMS...

[Winston Smith]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by iJon
i would just order it from amazon uk and pay little bit more in shipping

iJon
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wish we had that option with iTMS... (posted by Caveman-uk)


At least if we could do it that way we'd still get one click shopping....:rolleyes:

[uhlawboi80]

wow..i just read this entire thread and i must say...you people are major WHINERS. It is what it is, griping about it, at least in this case, wont change it. I can cry all i want and start a petition. That doesnt mean Ed's gonna show up at my door with a check for millions.

Do you honestly thing apple is just ignoring the rest of the world? you think it wouldnt love to get the other 80 something % of the worlds population buying songs from them? sure they do, its just going to take them more time.

Its also a possibility that Apple was treating the US roll out like a market test...if no one bought songs, maybe it wasnt a great idea and expending the resources to bring it to the rest of the world would have been ruinous.

Regardless, no use crying over spilt milk; you will get it when apple gets it done.

[Vlade]

Originally posted by uhlawboi80
wow..i just read this entire thread and i must say...you people are major WHINERS. It is what it is, griping about it, at least in this case, wont change it. I can cry all i want and start a petition. That doesnt mean Ed's gonna show up at my door with a check for millions.

Do you honestly thing apple is just ignoring the rest of the world? you think it wouldnt love to get the other 80 something % of the worlds population buying songs from them? sure they do, its just going to take them more time.

Its also a possibility that Apple was treating the US roll out like a market test...if no one bought songs, maybe it wasnt a great idea and expending the resources to bring it to the rest of the world would have been ruinous.

Regardless, no use crying over spilt milk; you will get it when apple gets it done.

Exacacly :D

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by uhlawboi80
wow..i just read this entire thread and i must say...you people are major WHINERS. It is what it is, griping about it, at least in this case, wont change it. I can cry all i want and start a petition. That doesnt mean Ed's gonna show up at my door with a check for millions.

Do you honestly thing apple is just ignoring the rest of the world? you think it wouldnt love to get the other 80 something % of the worlds population buying songs from them? sure they do, its just going to take them more time.

Its also a possibility that Apple was treating the US roll out like a market test...if no one bought songs, maybe it wasnt a great idea and expending the resources to bring it to the rest of the world would have been ruinous.

Regardless, no use crying over spilt milk; you will get it when apple gets it done.

Presumably that means we get iPhoto bboks and the full Sherlock when Apple gets it done.
I looking forward to buying Music for my Grandkids on iTMS:rolleyes:

[uhlawboi80]

my point is simply...it will get done when apple gets it done. Im sure they arent slacking on it, its just that its not done. It happens. Maybe there are reasons we dont know of.

I want the latest tiny cell phone..but they only release them in Japan..guess cause thats where many of the companies are based. *shrug* it just happens like that sometimes.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by uhlawboi80

I want the latest tiny cell phone..but they only release them in Japan..guess cause thats where many of the companies are based. *shrug* it just happens like that sometimes.
That maybe because the US uses a mobile phone standard that hardly anyone else uses... Shame that quite a few of the mobile companies are European (Nokia, Erikson etc.) isn't it? Please to see you know how it feels to be shafted. At least you didn't spend any money to get the inferior treatment eh?

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
That maybe because the US uses a mobile phone standard that hardly anyone else uses... Shame that quite a few of the mobile companies are European (Nokia, Erikson etc.) isn't it? Please to see you know how it feels to be shafted. At least you didn't spend any money to get the inferior treatment eh?

LOL:D

[uhlawboi80]

guess it depends on how you look at it. I used to have a nokia phone. It probably wasnt the latest and or the greatest at the time i bought it. But its what was available and it was better than my other options. This all despite the fact that im sure people in europe got cooler phones from Nokia at the time. I paid as much for my phone as you did im sure, so basically i DID pay equally for inferior product. At least you arent getting an inferior computer...just a tiny few programs arent AS expansive.

oh, and the US is switching over to a newer GSM system that will be compatible with europes and asias (from what i read) though a more advanced network overall. Another point is that the first "cellular" phone was created in the US, and if i remember my history some of the standards we use had to do with existing wireless networks that the government had established. So really, we were well ahead of the game, companies here just didnt see the point in a total switch over till now.