Hypothetically, who would be at fault?

[mariahlullaby]

In my town, we have the unique setup of having miles of golf cart trails around the city. By that I mean you can drive a golf cart anywhere in the city on the special paths (school, restaurants, grocery store, etc). Golf carts are a viable means of transportation (weird, I know) and most houses you buy here actually come with a golf cart (meaning most people own one).

I was driving behind another golf cart (at a reasonable distance, not close, etc) for some time. We went around a curve (slowly) and down a steep hill. A lot of near golf cart accidents happen here, because it's a blind spot where people often come careening around the curve and have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting someone coming up the hill (also, there's a small tunnel where golf carts can pass under the highway at the bottom).

Anyways, he stopped for a second. No problem, I stopped too, waiting for him to go (figured he was adjusting something or whatever). Then, he started BACKING UP and I reacted in time to yell but he backed straight into me. Obviously, he thought no one was behind him and was just backing up for a second to turn around. Anyways, he freaked out and blamed me for coming around the corner too fast and hitting him (which wasn't what happened at all....he just forgot to look behind him).

There wasn't really any damage except to his golf club holder, but I called my dad at work anyway to ask for advice (and explained what happened, in which the man who was listening to my conversation said "That's not how it happened, missy!").

He decided he wasn't going to do anything about it, but say he did. Would there be any way to prove I didn't just go around the corner and hit the back of his golf cart (which it looked like I did)? Usually, if you rear-end someone, you're screwed (even though he backed into me).

[dornoforpyros]

haha rich people fighting over golf cart accidents...away from the golf course. hahaha I don't care who's fault this is, I find the whole thing highly amusing.

[mariahlullaby]

Well, actually, there's a few distinct set of people who use the golf carts:

-Golfers (few)
-Teenagers who are too young to have a car or license
-Mothers with young children
-People who cannot afford cars

So, I would appreciate you not passing judgement. Thanks.

[clayj]

There's probably no way to prove it either way... it's a total he said, she said situation given the (I assume) lack of any evidence that you were stopped or moving. Maybe a forensic scientist could look at both carts and figure out what happened, but since it's never gonna go that far, no one can prove anything and it's likely you'll just each end up paying to repair your own carts (or not, depending on if any damage is actually worth the effort to fix).

[Sesshi]

Unless you get CSI involved in the case I doubt either one could conclusively prove what happened.

But for the next time?
http://www.helmetcamera.com/

:D

[Unorthodox]

he just forgot to look behind him.
Before you backup it's recommended that you look glance backwards.
That's what I was taught anyway....

You're a teenager, right?
Who old is this guy?
If it comes to finger pointing the teenager probable going to loose. :mad:

[MACDRIVE]

in which the man who was listening to my conversation said "That's not how it happened, missy!").



That's my favorite part of the story because it reveals yourself as being a girl. Cool. :)

[clayj]

BTW, it's cases like this that have inspired the insurance industry to pressure automobile manufacturers to install "black boxes" in new model cars... the idea being that when an accident occurs, they can pull the black box data from each car and see who was doing exactly what when the accident occurred. If your golf carts had such devices installed (which, of course, they never would), then it'd be a no-brainer to demonstrate that he backed into you.

[TequilaBoobs]

i was born and raised in manhattan, but havent lived there in aboot 10 years... where in nyc can u drive a golf cart?! ive never seen 1 golf cart in nyc... pls advise.

[poppe]

Solution: Start a bank account for F***s that screw you out of your money.

My uncle was just telling me how he was doing jury duty not to long ago. The Case was:

A 26 year old who did not have his license decided one day to go run some errands with his parent's car (his parents were out of town). As he was driving going through an intersection someone ran through the red light and hit the 26 year old. God Bless America, the man who Ran the red light decided that he shouldn't be at fault and that the parents of the son should be since they did not hide the keys. Guess what the guy who wasn't wearing the seat belt and ran the red light won 20,000 in damages for him being hurt from the accident and for the kid driving w/out license/parents not hiding keys; He was seeking $50,000. This was in Oregon.

Makes you wonder about this system...

[clayj]

i was born and raised in manhattan, but havent lived there in aboot 10 years... where in nyc can u drive a golf cart?! ive never seen 1 golf cart in nyc... pls advise.She's not from NYC... that's just where she goes to school.

[CanadaRAM]

Well in general, the person who is going the WRONG DIRECTION in the lane is presumed to be at fault...

[SC68Cal]

Congratulations for being entirely useless people!

I don't think there is much that you can do Mariah, most auto accidents are your words vs his/her words. Most of the time it boils down to who is "older" and "more mature"

It's ageism I tell you. Damn old lady didn't get out of my way fast enough!

[SMM]

There's probably no way to prove it either way... it's a total he said, she said situation given the (I assume) lack of any evidence that you were stopped or moving. Maybe a forensic scientist could look at both carts and figure out what happened, but since it's never gonna go that far, no one can prove anything and it's likely you'll just each end up paying to repair your own carts (or not, depending on if any damage is actually worth the effort to fix).

Actually, a (I really hate to even use this) CSI team would be able to reconstruct the accident. For example, they could tell whether your vehicle struck another one, or another one struck you.

[clayj]

Well in general, the person who is going the WRONG DIRECTION in the lane is presumed to be at fault...Yes, but there's no discernible evidence to prove the story either way... either she ran into him, or he ran into her. Given the nature of the accident and the lack of other witnesses, it can't be proven either way.

Actually, a (I really hate to even use this) CSI team would be able to reconstruct the accident. For example, they could tell whether your vehicle struck another one, or another one struck you.Yeah, that's what I said. But no one's going to bring in a forensic scientist for something like this.

[MacNut]

If you look at the scratch marks or how the dents are formed you should be able to get a good idea of who's at fault.

If as he says she slammed into him then there would be an impact of her crashing into his cart. If he backed into her then the direction of force should be shown.

[sushi]

Yeah, that's what I said. But no one's going to bring in a forensic scientist for something like this.
Plus it's too late now. The police/investigators would need to have been called in when the accident occurred. The carts could have been modified since the accident. Nothing can be proved at this point.

[kresh]

I don't know how it is in your state, but in North Carolina this situation is covered by law.

In NC if a rear-end accident occurs and there is no evidence to prove the situation either way (like a driver pulling out in front of you and you can't avoid them) then the person that rear-ends the other vehical is at fault.

In actuality you were too close to react to another driver making an unexpected move. If someone stops their cart, backs up, then hits you; then you were either way too close or not paying attention to avoid the accident.

Sorry, but if I were on the jury I would have to go for the other guy. Sure he made a dangerous move, but the duty to avoid an accident in front of you was yours :(

[Abstract]

A 26 year old who did not have his license decided one day to go run some errands with his parent's car (his parents were out of town). As he was driving going through an intersection someone ran through the red light and hit the 26 year old. God Bless America, the man who Ran the red light decided that he shouldn't be at fault and that the parents of the son should be since they did not hide the keys. Guess what the guy who wasn't wearing the seat belt and ran the red light won 20,000 in damages for him being hurt from the accident and for the kid driving w/out license/parents not hiding keys; He was seeking $50,000. This was in Oregon.

There's a lot of retards in your State, aren't there. There must be if you got enough people in a jury to vote in favour of the red light runner.

i was born and raised in manhattan, but havent lived there in aboot 10 years... where in nyc can u drive a golf cart?! ive never seen 1 golf cart in nyc... pls advise.

Don't worry, I was wondering the same thing. Craziest thing I've heard in a long time. Get a bike lane and ride your bike.


In actuality you were too close to react to another driver making an unexpected move. If someone stops their cart, backs up, then hits you; then you were either way too close or not paying attention to avoid the accident.

Sorry, but if I were on the jury I would have to go for the other guy. Sure he made a dangerous move, but the duty to avoid an accident in front of you was yours :(

And then you'll have another example of a person who didn't do anything wrong and gets blamed, while the ACTUAL person who didn't watch what they were doing gets off free. Oh, and the fact that the man suddenly started driving in the wrong direction doesn't mean anything?

[mduser63]

Sorry, but if I were on the jury I would have to go for the other guy. Sure he made a dangerous move, but the duty to avoid an accident in front of you was yours :(

And I certainly wouldn't. What if somebody else had been behind her so that she couldn't back up to avoid him coming at her?

[iSaint]

That's my favorite part of the story because it reveals yourself as being a girl. Cool. :)

Yeah now I'm not going to rag you as much about liking Mariah Carey. ;)

[annk]

I think that if something like that happened to me, and an older person was trying to blame his mistake on me thinking he could get away with it because I was young, I'd just calmly offer to take a lie detector test, and ask him if he's willing to do the same.

I know polygraph tests aren't admissible as evidence most places, but if I'd been at fault and knew it, and was calmly challenged to such a test, I'd sure think twice about continuing to blame the other party.

[bartelby]

Yeah now I'm not going to rag you as much about liking Mariah Carey. ;)

That's just what I was thinking!:)

[Atlasland]

In actuality you were too close to react to another driver making an unexpected move. If someone stops their cart, backs up, then hits you; then you were either way too close or not paying attention to avoid the accident.

Sorry, but if I were on the jury I would have to go for the other guy. Sure he made a dangerous move, but the duty to avoid an accident in front of you was yours :(

Complete, total and utter horse-trash.

As has already been said, what if someone was behind her car? Then what?

You are expected to be able to deal with the vehicle in front of you suddenly stopping, but NOT THE VEHICLE IN FRONT OF YOU SUDDENLY BACKING INTO YOU.

[takao]

luckily golf carts aren't allowed to drive on public streets around here ...

[CHAOS STEP]

Well, by your version of events the other party is clearly at fault.

But, how can either party prove their case?

It is a classic scenario, where one party alleges that someone reverses into them, whilst the other states that it was just a hit in rear.

In Road accidents, you can sometimes possibly look at the damage to each vehicle, but in most cases the impacts are at low speed and there is no evidential way of proving it.

So when there are also witnesses, it's just one persons word against another.

Is he denying that he was reversing? Why would he be reversing, had he missed a turning?

[CHAOS STEP]

Solution: Start a bank account for F***s that screw you out of your money.

My uncle was just telling me how he was doing jury duty not to long ago. The Case was:

A 26 year old who did not have his license decided one day to go run some errands with his parent's car (his parents were out of town). As he was driving going through an intersection someone ran through the red light and hit the 26 year old. God Bless America, the man who Ran the red light decided that he shouldn't be at fault and that the parents of the son should be since they did not hide the keys. Guess what the guy who wasn't wearing the seat belt and ran the red light won 20,000 in damages for him being hurt from the accident and for the kid driving w/out license/parents not hiding keys; He was seeking $50,000. This was in Oregon.

Makes you wonder about this system...



Interesting, in the UK, proximate cause / Primary liability is used.

This means, how did the mechanism of the incident occur - the guy running the red light.

The argument of 'he shouldn't have been on the road' is dismissed over here. Any offence that has taken place like that would be dealt with under criminal law (driving without licence, or insurance etc), but without regards to the civil matter.

There must have been other factors or indeed something about your traffic / civil liability laws that make an exception?

[dornoforpyros]

Well, actually, there's a few distinct set of people who use the golf carts:

-Golfers (few)
-Teenagers who are too young to have a car or license
-Mothers with young children
-People who cannot afford cars

So, I would appreciate you not passing judgement. Thanks.

Umm you just said most houses COME with golfcarts? so which is it? everyone? or just a few? sounds to me like you live in a very rich suburb.

As for not passing judgment...welcome to the internet

[annk]

Umm you just said most houses COME with golfcarts? so which is it? everyone? or just a few? sounds to me like you live in a very rich suburb.

....

Does it matter? :confused:

[dornoforpyros]

Does it matter? :confused:

I'm just saying I find the image of rich people having golf cart accidents around their suburb to be rather funny. The OP then got defensive and tried to downplay the # of people using them.

So no, it doesn't really matter what a jaded graphic artist thinks about rich people living the good life. But that doesn't mean I can't have a laugh at their expense.

[iSaint]

I would hope that your father trusts you enough to know you are telling the truth. If your family supports you, everything should be ok.

Now, let's talk about this Mariah Carey stuff.

:D

JUST KIDDING!!! :D

[Ugg]

I'm just saying I find the image of rich people having golf cart accidents around their suburb to be rather funny. The OP then got defensive and tried to downplay the # of people using them.

So no, it doesn't really matter what a jaded graphic artist thinks about rich people living the good life. But that doesn't mean I can't have a laugh at their expense.

It's not about wealth in a lot of these communities but a way of reducing pollution, enabling older people to be independent and a host of other issues. Your passing judgement just shows your immaturity.


As far as the OP's question is concerned, there's not a lot you can do. In cases like this it's mostly a matter of your word against his. Get a mini cam mounted on your golf cart so you'll have proof to back you up.

[dornoforpyros]

It's not about wealth in a lot of these communities but a way of reducing pollution, enabling older people to be independent and a host of other issues. Your passing judgement just shows your immaturity.
.

You people have no sense of humor:rolleyes:

[kresh]

Complete, total and utter horse-trash.

As has already been said, what if someone was behind her car? Then what?

You are expected to be able to deal with the vehicle in front of you suddenly stopping, but NOT THE VEHICLE IN FRONT OF YOU SUDDENLY BACKING INTO YOU.

hehe I guess you missed the part of evidence to the otherwise :) You are throwing a what-if situation in there by saying "what if someone was behind her car?". That would clearly provide evidence that the other guy was at fault and not her.

That's just not the scenario.

edit: Just how far did the guy back up? If he backed up 2 or 3 feet then she was just way to close. If he backed up 25 feet and hit her, what was she paying attention to to allow him to back that far into her?

[mariahlullaby]

hehe I guess you missed the part of evidence to the otherwise :) You are throwing a what-if situation in there by saying "what if someone was behind her car?". That would clearly provide evidence that the other guy was at fault and not her.

That's just not the scenario.

edit: Just how far did the guy back up? If he backed up 2 or 3 feet then she was just way to close. If he backed up 25 feet and hit her, what was she paying attention to to allow him to back that far into her?

I was about 10-15 feet away from him. Keep in mind we are golf carts, not in cars. He was at the bottom of the hill and I was still on a very steep incline. Had I taken the parking brake off, I would have rolled about 3-4 feet down the hill before the reverse kicked in...so trying to back up in time would have just had me crash into him. He back up rather quickly! And I yelled at him but I guess he didn't hear me...it happened in a matter of about 5 seconds.

And in regards to my earlier comments about everyone owning golf carts, this is true. I was trying to say that it's not an elitist bunch of rich people who own the golf carts in the city, everyone does. However, the majority of the people that use them are a) teenagers (and there's problems with reckless driving,etc) b) mothers with young children c) golfers and d) people who cannot afford or do not own a car.

Thank you to everyone who has helped out! I haven't heard anything from him, so I am guessing everything is OK. My dad did believe me, I am very trustworthy. I was just wondering....what if he DID, how could I prove this?

THANKS!!!

[clayj]

Like I said: You can't prove anything. Neither can the other guy.