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View Full Version : Kutaragi Gone - No PS4?


greatdevourer
Dec 1, 2006, 01:07 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/f6728ed8-8095-11db-9096-0000779e2340.html

Interesting... anything to reduce the amount of hardware I'll end up shelling out for is good with me :)

FleurDuMal
Dec 1, 2006, 04:46 AM
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/f6728ed8-8095-11db-9096-0000779e2340.html

Interesting... anything to reduce the amount of hardware I'll end up shelling out for is good with me :)

Considering what an awful few months it's been for Sony PR-wise, it's hardly a bit suprise.

And I don't think there will be a "Playstation 4" as the brand doesnt match what Sony seems to think it should be. They seem to want to downplay the fact that it "Play"'s games as much as possible. It'll probably end up 'mediastation' or something God-awful like that :rolleyes:

Dagless
Dec 1, 2006, 04:52 AM
Considering what an awful few months it's been for Sony PR-wise, it's hardly a bit suprise.

And I don't think there will be a "Playstation 4" as the brand doesnt match what Sony seems to think it should be. They seem to want to downplay the fact that it "Play"'s games as much as possible. It'll probably end up 'mediastation' or something God-awful like that :rolleyes:

That's what I've been thinking. Why is it still called "play" when Sony are clearly using the PS3 as a way to get BluRay into homes and they're falling short on the games front on both PS3 and PSP. "Media centres that play games as a secondary feature"

Be nice if Sony just turned the Playstation line into actual computers. with a monitor (optional) and everything. Upgradeable CPU/GPU, effectively making them high end PCs (though this would likely see them priced alongside Alienware etc). They'd get their tax back then!

srobert
Dec 1, 2006, 07:01 AM
From waht I've read he got a promotion. IT looks like he went from Playstation boss to boss of the Playstation boss.

NewbieNerd
Dec 1, 2006, 08:25 AM
That's what I've been thinking. Why is it still called "play" when Sony are clearly using the PS3 as a way to get BluRay into homes and they're falling short on the games front on both PS3 and PSP. "Media centres that play games as a secondary feature"


It plays games, plays DVDs, plays Bluray Disks, plays CDs. Why is it so crazy of an idea to have one system that plays all of those? Yes, the PS3 has some issues, but it seems like some of you on here just live to deride Sony.

Haoshiro
Dec 1, 2006, 08:37 AM
Yeah, I'm not sure his new position will alter the company all that much, but we will see.

From a financial sense, if Blu-ray does not succeed they could pull a Sega and go straight games, they might actually make more money that way. That would be hard for them, because there would be a lot more competition in the software world.

ChrisK018
Dec 1, 2006, 08:45 AM
From a financial sense, if Blu-ray does not succeed they could pull a Sega and go straight games, they might actually make more money that way. That would be hard for them, because there would be a lot more competition in the software world.

You're joking... right?

MovieCutter
Dec 1, 2006, 08:52 AM
It plays games, plays DVDs, plays Bluray Disks, plays CDs. Why is it so crazy of an idea to have one system that plays all of those? Yes, the PS3 has some issues, but it seems like some of you on here just live to deride Sony.

Blu-Ray hasn't won the format war, and the XBox 360 does everything you described, and integrates better into my entertainment system than anything out there right now. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but it seems to me the XBox has the PS3 by the balls and the PS3 is Sony's last stand.

SpankyPenzaanz
Dec 1, 2006, 09:50 AM
There will be another...while it may not be officaially a ps4 it will definitely show its roots from the ps3. Sony has never been happy with windows on their vaio's and the ps3 is probably a precursor to a more media center based pc especially with the availability of a highly functional linux. It will probably take some time but I see a merging of the vaio and ps brand. kaz has always been a software person and he sees the quicker turn around in the bottom line in terms of software rather than hardware. And saying kutagari gone is about like saying that gates is gone from ms - they still have their say in the company and can still impact where their respective companies will likely head.

Haoshiro
Dec 1, 2006, 10:17 AM
You're joking... right?

Which part? :)

Honestly, the money is in the software, so yes I think they could be more profitable (especially by not taking huge hardware losses).

As for more competition, yes, that too. If they were to make software for 360 or Wii, they'd be competing against Microsoft and Nintendo software. If they are on their own platform they get to be the exclusive titles, they got a much bigger limelight. In an open world, competing with first party software on the same system would be more challenging.

paddy
Dec 1, 2006, 10:32 AM
I would be very surprised if they dropped one of the best known brand names in the world, one that has sold 200 million + units over its entire lifespan.

greatdevourer
Dec 1, 2006, 10:33 AM
From waht I've read he got a promotion. IT looks like he went from Playstation boss to boss of the Playstation boss.*As I said, he's been moved to somewhere where he can't do any damage - he still makes money, but doesn't do anything, and thus can't break anything. The Dilbert Principle - The most ineffective workers are systematically moved to the place where they can do the least damage: management

ChrisK018
Dec 1, 2006, 10:34 AM
The reason I asked is because gaming is just one of many facets of Sony. As i'm sure everyone knows, they make all kinds of products that have nothing to do with video games. If Sony was going to get out of the videogame biz, I suspect they would sell off thier PlayStation division and get back into all of the other electronics they've been spitting out for the past number of decades.

I'll be honest here, I have a ton of Sony electronics. I like the way they look, (though I do understand that the stuff is overpriced, and other companies have TV's and receivers that do more).

Still, the PS3 costs too much for my blood; I don't really care about the "It's a cheap/great a Blu-ray player" arguement because most of the movies that are out for them do not appeal to me.

Kutaragi screwed up.

NewbieNerd
Dec 1, 2006, 10:54 AM
Blu-Ray hasn't won the format war, and the XBox 360 does everything you described, and integrates better into my entertainment system than anything out there right now. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but it seems to me the XBox has the PS3 by the balls and the PS3 is Sony's last stand.

I'm not arguing with you about Blu-Ray or the Xbox 360 or any of that...I was simply responding the criticism of the name "Playstation," which I thought was a little absurd and merely an excuse to make a jab at the system/company. Whether it is the 360 or the PS3, and I know no one knows which format will win, if either, but I simply like the idea of all these media features bundled together, but hey, that's just my preference.

Antares
Dec 1, 2006, 11:34 AM
Which part? :)

Honestly, the money is in the software, so yes I think they could be more profitable (especially by not taking huge hardware losses).

Except Sega was known just as much for it's games as it was for it's consoles. Off the top of your head, what Sony developed software or games can you name? What's their mascot? Well, I can't think of any....... Without any of this, they would have a very difficult time becoming software/game only. I'm also assuming that you exclude their television, computer, music equipment brands, etc. from this idea...

GFLPraxis
Dec 1, 2006, 12:44 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure his new position will alter the company all that much, but we will see.

From a financial sense, if Blu-ray does not succeed they could pull a Sega and go straight games, they might actually make more money that way. That would be hard for them, because there would be a lot more competition in the software world.

Not a good idea, because Sony makes very, very few games. They make money off of licensed third party games on their platform.

Microsoft and Nintendo could make money pulling a Sega, but Sony wouldn't have anything worth selling other than Gran Turismo.

Haoshiro
Dec 1, 2006, 01:03 PM
Except Sega was known just as much for it's games as it was for it's consoles. Off the top of your head, what Sony developed software or games can you name? What's their mascot? Well, I can't think of any....... Without any of this, they would have a very difficult time becoming software/game only. I'm also assuming that you exclude their television, computer, music equipment brands, etc. from this idea...

Not a good idea, because Sony makes very, very few games. They make money off of licensed third party games on their platform.

Microsoft and Nintendo could make money pulling a Sega, but Sony wouldn't have anything worth selling other than Gran Turismo.

I was making a list, but then I just decided to look up a list of all their (65) franchises (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCEI#Game_Franchises).

Here's my personal list of their top 15 (alphabetically):

Ape Escape
God of War
Gran Turismo
Hot Shots Golf
Jak and Daxter
Killzone
Ratchet & Clank
Shadow of the Colossus
Sly Cooper
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs
Syphon Filter
Twisted Metal
Warhawk
Wild Arms
Wipeout


They have plenty of well known franchises and studies, some of them they invented, many they acquired through buyouts.

And yes, I only meant their video game division could switch to software-only.

Chris: I doubt they would sell off the division, last I heard it was the only division that was profitable for them!

Chone
Dec 1, 2006, 01:54 PM
Sony going off the market would suck, the 360 would be lonely (the Wii is a completely different kind of console) and without competition products go DOWNHILL.

Competition is what has made the industry progress, hell without competition we might not have innovative stuff like the Wii and the DS and MS wouldn't be trying so damn hard to trump Sony.

Competition is what makes a product good.

GFLPraxis
Dec 1, 2006, 02:27 PM
I was making a list, but then I just decided to look up a list of all their (65) franchises (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCEI#Game_Franchises).

Here's my personal list of their top 15 (alphabetically):

Ape Escape
God of War
Gran Turismo
Hot Shots Golf
Jak and Daxter
Killzone
Ratchet & Clank
Shadow of the Colossus
Sly Cooper
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs
Syphon Filter
Twisted Metal
Warhawk
Wild Arms
Wipeout


They have plenty of well known franchises and studies, some of them they invented, many they acquired through buyouts.

And yes, I only meant their video game division could switch to software-only.

Chris: I doubt they would sell off the division, last I heard it was the only division that was profitable for them!

Didn't realize that God of War was Sony-developed...
some of those games are only published by Sony, not developed by them (Ratchet and Clank, for example). But still, it's a lot more than I real

ChrisK018
Dec 1, 2006, 02:36 PM
So many of the Sony Franchise titles that Haoshiro mentions do indeed fall under the parent company of Sony, but I agree that it's mainly Gran Turismo that reeks of true Sony-ness. The other titles not so much. I will list what I would consider to be the flagship franchises of the big boys:

Nintendo: Mario, Zelda, Metroid
Microsoft: Halo
Sony: Gran Turismo

Of course there are excellent less popular but unique franchises like Katamari, Pikmin that I love (and a TON of other kinds of games that I never play myself like FPS, etc.) Feel free to quibble away at the poorly constructed list, but Nintendo obviously has the most unique in-house and well known marquee titles. Microsoft and Sony don't have even close to that level.

I don't feel like Sony ever managed to brand its games enough so that it could get away from pushing its own platform. Realistically there are two other factors here: the PS3 is just getting started. Sure they royally messed up with many elements of rolling out their new system, but the PS2 did manage to blow away all the other platforms.* There is also the blu-ray thing. They have to stick with this PS3 and try to get that format to catch on with the public. Everything is so interwoven at this point that Sony would be fools to give up this one, very important facet of their huge plan.

In a year or two I think Sony will have recovered and the competition will be fine.

*usually raggedjimmi will sing the praises of the white hot selling DS at this point.

BoyBach
Dec 1, 2006, 02:43 PM
I don't believe that a 'Sony' as we know it now, will exist in 5-6 years time when the next "Next Generation Console War" begins. I still think that the PS3 will be prove to be the 'project too far' that sinks the "fingers-in-all-of-the-pies-Sony" of recent years.

It will be a sad day, but I fear that it's inevitable.

sikkinixx
Dec 1, 2006, 03:17 PM
No one knows what is gonna happen in the next generation. This generation is just getting rolling. How do any of you know what is gonan happen? Are you all trade and technology experts? Marketing majors? Game developers? Do you work for Sony/MS/Nintendo? Any reputable video game media outlet will tell you the same thing. It's all well and good to talk about it but so many people here (not solely on this thread but on forums in general) assert that "I AM RIGHT! SONY IS DONE! HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE?". I wish I had the crystal ball that those people have...

Maybe in a few years once we see how the market has accepted/rejected PS3 then we will see if there will be a PS4 or something else from someone else all together.

greatdevourer
Dec 1, 2006, 03:24 PM
No one knows what is gonna happen in the next generation. This generation is just getting rolling. How do any of you know what is gonan happen? Are you all trade and technology experts? Marketing majors? Game developers? Do you work for Sony/MS/Nintendo? Any reputable video game media outlet will tell you the same thing. It's all well and good to talk about it but so many people here (not solely on this thread but on forums in general) assert that "I AM RIGHT! SONY IS DONE! HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE?". I wish I had the crystal ball that those people have...

Maybe in a few years once we see how the market has accepted/rejected PS3 then we will see if there will be a PS4 or something else from someone else all together. Read the first post, please... :rolleyes: This isn't some crackpot theory that I came up with. We're commenting on a link from a genuine analyist payed to do this. Not our words. His

sikkinixx
Dec 1, 2006, 03:30 PM
that is one analyist out of how many though?

However, it wasn't geared at your post, more at the other posters who said PS3 is Sony's last stand, etc.

Sorry just everyone going nuts about the PS3 launch, but some analyists still say that the PS3 will come out on top and be hugely successful. So many knee-jerk reactions! Its like if the Yankee's lost the first 10 games of the year and people started saying they will never win another World Series. I guess negativity sells :D

BoyBach
Dec 1, 2006, 03:41 PM
No one knows what is gonna happen in the next generation. This generation is just getting rolling. How do any of you know what is gonan happen? Are you all trade and technology experts? Marketing majors? Game developers? Do you work for Sony/MS/Nintendo? Any reputable video game media outlet will tell you the same thing. It's all well and good to talk about it but so many people here (not solely on this thread but on forums in general) assert that "I AM RIGHT! SONY IS DONE! HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE?". I wish I had the crystal ball that those people have...

Maybe in a few years once we see how the market has accepted/rejected PS3 then we will see if there will be a PS4 or something else from someone else all together.


You're right. I don't work in the 'industry' or have degree in marketing. But simple facts tell their own story, and Sony's recent past has been one disaster after another.

Restructuring the company with 10,000 job losses, selling of production factories, not being ready for the flat-panel revolution in TV's, battery recalls, the failure of the PSP and UMD as a media format, practically no presence in the portable DAP market, root-kits in CD's, PS3 delays, Blu-Ray shortages, etc.

In the second quarter of 2006, Sony (the entire company, not just it's games wing) made a profit of just 7 million.

Sony are in trouble, and they've bet the house on the PS3 and Blu-Ray format. If these products fail...

killmoms
Dec 1, 2006, 03:57 PM
The press in the gaming world (which sets the tone for mainstream press about games, eventually) has been "small circle of hype, surrounded by a largely critical audience on how Sony has failed to deliver." There's exactly one semi-compelling launch title for the PS3: Resistance. The rest is re-hashed sports games and ports of titles that are already out for Xbox 360 (and often are better there).

Sony's North American launch was a scant 200,000 units. Meanwhile, Nintendo shipped and sold 600,000 units of the Wii, and are on track to provide 4 million by the end of the year. And unlike Sony, Nintendo's not taking a loss on each console they sell.

I'm no Nintendo fanboy (I think the Xbox 360 is compelling, the Wii has a very neat control interface, and the PS2 had some excellent games), and I'm not anti-Sony. In fact, two of what I consider the best games ever (ICO and Shadow of the Colossus) were Sony Computer Entertainment first-party titles for the PS2. I'm just seeing all the news regarding the PS3 launch (technical issues, lack of supply, lack of compelling launch lineup) and wondering if it's possible for them to screw this up any worse than they already have... honestly, I'm not coming up with a lot.

Chone
Dec 1, 2006, 04:11 PM
You're right. I don't work in the 'industry' or have degree in marketing. But simple facts tell their own story, and Sony's recent past has been one disaster after another.

Restructuring the company with 10,000 job losses, selling of production factories, not being ready for the flat-panel revolution in TV's, battery recalls, the failure of the PSP and UMD as a media format, practically no presence in the portable DAP market, root-kits in CD's, PS3 delays, Blu-Ray shortages, etc.

In the second quarter of 2006, Sony (the entire company, not just it's games wing) made a profit of just 7 million.

Sony are in trouble, and they've bet the house on the PS3 and Blu-Ray format. If these products fail...

Now I wouldn't go as far as saying the PSP and UMD have been a failure, sure they may be second in comparison to the DS but they are still popular and sell relatively well, its hard to beat Nintendo at the handheld game.

The DAP market is dominated by Apple, Creative has gained *some* marketshare and there are other popular options but you can't hope to succeed in the DAP market with the popularity of iPods.

Blu-Ray is by the way, NOT a Sony technology, I just hope that is very clear, if Sony goes down, Blu-Ray will be just as alive, Blu Ray is NOT developed by Sony, is NOT from Sony and was NOT thought out by Sony, Sony is just a supporter, like many more, including Apple computer.

Sony is facing some trouble and it seems like Microsoft may very well surpass them in sales and popularity this gen but it is not as dramatic and bad as you make it sound to be.

Sony DOES do some things right, but apparently, its popular to hate the ones with the most marketshare, much like happens with iPods and of course the mac drones, people who have never used a Windows PC and will constantly call it Winblows or other cute nicknames, I've used other DAPs besides iPods, I still like iPods more, I've owned macs all my life and have used Windows for 6 years now, Windows is still the system that I use more, I've played the Xbox and the PS2... and I still like the PS2 a lot more.

BoyBach
Dec 1, 2006, 04:53 PM
Now I wouldn't go as far as saying the PSP and UMD have been a failure, sure they may be second in comparison to the DS but they are still popular and sell relatively well, its hard to beat Nintendo at the handheld game.

The DAP market is dominated by Apple, Creative has gained *some* marketshare and there are other popular options but you can't hope to succeed in the DAP market with the popularity of iPods.

Blu-Ray is by the way, NOT a Sony technology, I just hope that is very clear, if Sony goes down, Blu-Ray will be just as alive, Blu Ray is NOT developed by Sony, is NOT from Sony and was NOT thought out by Sony, Sony is just a supporter, like many more, including Apple computer.

Sony is facing some trouble and it seems like Microsoft may very well surpass them in sales and popularity this gen but it is not as dramatic and bad as you make it sound to be.

Sony DOES do some things right, but apparently, its popular to hate the ones with the most marketshare, much like happens with iPods and of course the mac drones, people who have never used a Windows PC and will constantly call it Winblows or other cute nicknames, I've used other DAPs besides iPods, I still like iPods more, I've owned macs all my life and have used Windows for 6 years now, Windows is still the system that I use more, I've played the Xbox and the PS2... and I still like the PS2 a lot more.


I'm not a 'fanboy' or anti- Sony/Microsoft and bashing the market leader.

I'm simply pointing out that Sony has been in difficulty, business-wise, for quite some time, with it's only bright spot the success of the PlayStation over the previous two generations.

Sony (the massive corporation with it's fingers in all the pies) cannot continue. It has lost it's CE 'leadership' to Samsung and LG, lost it's walkman 'leadership' to Apple, has lost a lot it's reputation for quality due to the battery debacle. Add to this the fact that it has had to take a 545 million Euro loan to help fund the PS3 - which isn't economic to manufacture at the moment - and the omens aren't good for Sony.

Questioning Sony's business viability is not 'PS3 bashing' or 'fanboy-ism'. Nor does it require that you work in the 'industry' or 'the City' or hold a degree in any subject you care mention.

Also, Sony were part of the 'Blu-Ray Disc Founders' who developed the technology and then re-labelled themselves the 'Blu-Ray Disc Association'. But you're right, if Sony (as we know it) does die it doesn't mean the death of Blu-ray, but it would lose it's most vocal and arguably its most important 'supporter.'

Dagless
Dec 1, 2006, 04:57 PM
Now I wouldn't go as far as saying the PSP and UMD have been a failure, sure they may be second in comparison to the DS but they are still popular and sell relatively well, its hard to beat Nintendo at the handheld game.

The DAP market is dominated by Apple, Creative has gained *some* marketshare and there are other popular options but you can't hope to succeed in the DAP market with the popularity of iPods.

Blu-Ray is by the way, NOT a Sony technology, I just hope that is very clear, if Sony goes down, Blu-Ray will be just as alive, Blu Ray is NOT developed by Sony, is NOT from Sony and was NOT thought out by Sony, Sony is just a supporter, like many more, including Apple computer.

Sony is facing some trouble and it seems like Microsoft may very well surpass them in sales and popularity this gen but it is not as dramatic and bad as you make it sound to be.

Sony DOES do some things right, but apparently, its popular to hate the ones with the most marketshare, much like happens with iPods and of course the mac drones, people who have never used a Windows PC and will constantly call it Winblows or other cute nicknames, I've used other DAPs besides iPods, I still like iPods more, I've owned macs all my life and have used Windows for 6 years now, Windows is still the system that I use more, I've played the Xbox and the PS2... and I still like the PS2 a lot more.

Just a little thing I noticed - you didn't use a single full stop/period in there apart from the pause in the last paragraph. Meh.

On topic though; Welshandrew has some good points. 7 million for the whole company? What have been their previous results? For comparisons sake?

BoyBach
Dec 1, 2006, 05:08 PM
On topic though; Welshandrew has some good points. 7 million for the whole company? What have been their previous results? For comparisons sake?


I can't be bothered to work out the maths (I'm tired and lack the skills!), but Sony's profits were down 94% compared to the same period last year. To quote the Edge Magazine article: "...battery recalls and the PS3's delay together cost the firm $366 million (192 million)."

Haoshiro
Dec 1, 2006, 05:20 PM
Didn't realize that God of War was Sony-developed...
some of those games are only published by Sony, not developed by them (Ratchet and Clank, for example). But still, it's a lot more than I real

So many of the Sony Franchise titles that Haoshiro mentions do indeed fall under the parent company of Sony, but I agree that it's mainly Gran Turismo that reeks of true Sony-ness. The other titles not so much.

But Gran Turismo is a Polyphony Studios game! lol :D

Everything I listed are Sony-owned franchises whether you realize it or not.

No, they were not all developed by an SCE-branded studio, like I said, many are made by studios Sony acquired, and they know fully own the franchises.

Think Bungie, etc, for Microsoft. Bungie is a Microsoft studio now, all the franchises I listed and are on the article I linked to are the same for Sony.

It is surprising, the first time I found out all those franchises are now owned by Sony I was definitely surprised too.

sam10685
Dec 1, 2006, 09:30 PM
PS3 is going to fail misserably. no PS4 is an eigth generation no-brainer.

zap2
Dec 1, 2006, 09:32 PM
Now I wouldn't go as far as saying the PSP and UMD have been a failure, sure they may be second in comparison to the DS but they are still popular and sell relatively well, its hard to beat Nintendo at the handheld game.


PSP, not yet..UMD..yes it fail,as it clearly was doomed form day 1

Dagless
Dec 1, 2006, 09:41 PM
Why was it doomed?

Limited hardware (only playable on PSP).
Expensive compared to regular DVD.
Lower resolution/smaller display than virtually every users TV set.
Silly name that didn't actually inform the user, something with x-DVD in might have helped.

Whats funny is that 3/4 of them points can be directed at HD-DVD/BluRay too. OH! And Toshiba (Maybe even Panasonic) had some HD-DVD stall in the Arndale today. Was funny, I wanted to have a go but I was eating Lindor chocolate at the time. Micro Anvika had BluRay demos (which I actually think are BS as the HDD light was flickering on the computer, could be wrong though.).

7on
Dec 1, 2006, 09:45 PM
Sony going off the market would suck, the 360 would be lonely (the Wii is a completely different kind of console) and without competition products go DOWNHILL.

Competition is what has made the industry progress, hell without competition we might not have innovative stuff like the Wii and the DS and MS wouldn't be trying so damn hard to trump Sony.

Competition is what makes a product good.

Consoles won't necessarily go downhill... but we may see a return of $70 SNES games...