Apple Music Stations

[MacRumors]

Spymac reports (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=378_0_5_0_C) that Apple will be featuring their new music service in special kiosks at Apple Stores:

Although the iMac-powered kiosks will double as information and showcase displays, customers will be able to purchase music and take it home with them, provided they bring along an iPod or purchase a disc to burn.

Payment details are unknown at this time.

[chewbaccapits]

I definately try now that I placed my order for a pod...:)...Finally, after 5 months!

[MrMickS]

As sold Apple don't allow you to pull music off your iPod. If you downloaded music from an AppleStore to your iPod it would only be usable on it or via iTunes on it.

Unless you can burn a playlist from your iPod (not able to try that atm) this seems like a pretty dumb thing to do.

I've had my iPod mysteriously reset itself once (deleting all of the content) and have had to revert to a previous software version once (deleting all of the content). This seems too much like throwing money away to me.

[maxterpiece]

This is not all that exciting for me, but seems like a good idea. Obviously anyone with a mac capable of running iTunes 4 and a high speed internet connection will opt to download music at home, so this severely limits the percentage of people in the apple store that would care for this. As far as downloading onto an ipod goes, because you can't upload from your ipod onto your computer, it seems kind of silly (unless it's a lot cheaper). THe only ipod owner who might be interested is the windows user (at least for the next 7 months or so)... otherwise it just makes more sense to download at home. It seems like a nice thing just as a way for apple to demonstrate in-store how easy the music store is to use and to show those who might be hesitant around in it.

As far as practical uses - that is buying a bunch of music and burning it because you feel like it, this doesn't seem all that practical (although it doesn't sound to bad for 99 cents a song... if I was planning on buying 4 different CDs at the CD store across the street, but I know that on those CDs there are only about 15 songs that I care to listen to, $15 sounds a lot nicer to my pockets than the $50-$60 I woulda spent on the CDs). It would be cool if Apple had some CD-stomping software running off the computers too. Maybe apple should include that software in iTunes 5. I think if apple had implemented all this technology to just have kiosks, it would be a dumb idea, but since the infrastructure is like 99% there already, implementing it is virtually free. It's a win-win situation. Another thing that they could do would be to allow people to burn the actual AAC files to a CD, then go home and register their home mac (or the one that they are buying) under the account that they used - go for a shopping spree at the apple store with their high speed connection, then bring home 20 songs. I don't know... it's not something that's exciting for us computer nerds with fast internet. We all had iTunes 4 installed by monday evening and had at least experimented with the Apple store. Not everybody's as curious or technologically adept I guess. It might piss off CD store that's across the street though.

[MrMacMan]

I hope you can pay in cash... :)

[donshank]

and when you get home and plug it into your computer iTunes will erase the songs on your ipod that arent on your computer when it syncs.

phtht!

[whfsdude]

Now if only Apple sold porn like they sell music.


Really I think the selling Music in the Apple Store is a good idea. Just gear it towards teens.

Turn the apple store in to a hangout.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by whfsdude
Now if only Apple sold porn like they sell music.


Really I think the selling Music in the Apple Store is a good idea. Just gear it towards teens.

Turn the apple store in to a hangout.

Best to purchase the domain www.appleporn.com while there's still time.

I can see it now: people performing their favorites scenes in front of a white background while singing BOW-CHICKA-BOW-WOW

[The Shadow]

Originally posted by whfsdude
Now if only Apple sold porn like they sell music.


Really I think the selling Music in the Apple Store is a good idea. Just gear it towards teens.

Turn the apple store in to a hangout.

That's the second dumbest idea I've ever heard!:D

An AppleHomies store.

Yep, then they'd really move some stock off the floor. (Just that noone would pay for it, it'd just somehow mysteriously disappear.):D

[pretentious]

Why don't they just rent kiosks out at malls around the country?

It'll be able to show off the greatness of Macs, and it'll be cheaper than Sam Goodie right next door. They'll give you a CD-R and mix or buy and entire album right there just 9.99!
This would be great!!

All they need is a small kiosk maybe one or two Apple guys and a couple Macs and Internet of course, cheap and easy no need for a full Apple Store everywhere, it would be great advertisement for the store and for Apple in every city.

I can see this becoming really big.

[The Shadow]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Spymac reports (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=378_0_5_0_C) that Apple will be featuring their new music service in special kiosks at Apple Stores:

Payment details are unknown at this time.

Presumably this service is still not available outside the US, which if I remember my geography correctly, means not available to MOST OF THE WORLD!!

Ummm, yep, pretty sure that's RIGHT!

Can we have some PERSPECTIVE please, in the reporting? I'm just getting a bit frustrated with the "World Series Baseball" mentality (the World meaning the US).

[elo]

In baseball, "World Series" means the world. There are non-US teams, and there is no reason why other non-US teams couldn't join the major leagues.

[mymemory]

When I was studing multimedia in Orlando FL in one of the curses we talked about a system that would use ATM like machines to burn your CDs, the reason of that was to save place of record store because they have a huge volume of useless space in CD's, some of them with several years on display and the "ATM" machines would be networked to transfer the material to each other. Of course in those times mp3 didn't existe and DSL wasn't avalible, that was around 1996.

So, Apple is doing just that and better, no need of huge record stores, at list not that many any more and I'm capable of getting the music from my own computer legally.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by elo
In baseball, "World Series" means the world. There are non-US teams, and there is no reason why other non-US teams couldn't join the major leagues.

No, if it was a "World" series, you'd have national teams like with the World Cup. That way it could be U.S. vs. Japan vs. Korea vs. Latin American countries vs. anyone else that plays baseball.

[Mudbug]

I like the business model of the mall-kiosk for music distribution. Is there any reason you couldn't do this now, with the software available? I haven't read the information about the rules governing burning the music, but if you use your Apple ID to download a CD full of music off the net legally, charge a reseller fee to your customer, then burn them their custom CD, then remove the original downloads from your copy of itunes, is there anything illegal in that?

I'll explain, if that was confusing. :)

[Macmaniac]

I bet if you download a song from a Kiosk at an Apple store to an iPod, some kind of tag will id it and allow it to be transffered to your computer. They did way it would be using a modified version of iTunes.
So when you plug your iPod in it would automatically transfer music you bought to your computer.
That makes the most logical sense.

[iAlan]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
if you download a song from a Kiosk at an Apple store to an iPod, some kind of tag will id it and allow it to be transffered to your computer.... when you plug your iPod in it would automatically transfer music you bought to your computer..

I was thinking the same. No way would Apple set up a kiosk for you to download songs to your iPod just to have them erased. Unless you can customize a play list of say 10 songs for $2 just to listen to while you walk around and before replugging your iPod and they get erased. Don7t knw if this would be popular, just a thought...

[Rocketman]

Apple seems to be dabbling in retail Point Of Sale (POS) hardware so one might expect them to have a kiosk with card swiper for the music distribution scheme. One problem I see is the process of selecting and gathering music is time intensive so a kiosk might need 2-4 stations on it to be practical during surge demand.

With the POS toys they have made for thier own stores, maybe they will come out with a POS solution for retailers generally. There are plenty of small retail stores with only 2-4 access points for their POS system. Some of those could be headless or special purpose macs.

The notable thing about kiosks is they can be installed in shopping malls essentially immediately nationwide since those positions are almost always available unlike a full storefront. Also the capital investment is tiny as compared to a store so growth and penetration is not a problem for a well funded firm like Apple.

The figures I saw for margins were 65 cents to the publisher and 35 cents to Apple for the distribution function. On a direct sale basis with a client server model, that is high margin.

Rocketman

[Mudbug]

I don't know the thread #, but there was something about a larger enclosure in one of the rumors. What if that was for an in-store display system for retail vendors, instead of for the consumer market - like a commercial-sized ipod. That would give you a larger version of the screen with a true itunes interface (that wouldn't be too hard to do), with a credit card swiper built in.

why not? That would allow for the kiosk idea, in all sorts of retail settings, even outside of apple stores.

[hansumgent]

Having it not delete your music once you got home would be easy to implement. Since (as of now) the only way for an m4p file (paid for track) to get on your iPod is through the Apple store download OR when you synch your iPod to a computer that has mp4's on it (and thusly authorizing this iPod to use it), they could just do a blanket update FROM the iPod TO the music collection if both are authorized to play songs belonging to the same user.

I'll give this a try later today by downloading music to my iPod then synching my iPod to my second computer to see if the m4p's get copied over. Of course it will ONLY copy over the m4p's because it's the only files that can be linked to a user.

[macmax]

Originally posted by MrMickS
As sold Apple don't allow you to pull music off your iPod. If you downloaded music from an AppleStore to your iPod it would only be usable on it or via iTunes on it.

Unless you can burn a playlist from your iPod (not able to try that atm) this seems like a pretty dumb thing to do.

I've had my iPod mysteriously reset itself once (deleting all of the content) and have had to revert to a previous software version once (deleting all of the content). This seems too much like throwing money away to me.

there is a way to get your ipod music to another computer, email me

[abdul]

does anyone know how many people signed up for the service in the first hour/ steve said there would be more people signup for this service in the first hour than anyother service..... was he right?

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by macmax
there is a way to get your ipod music to another computer, email me

but it's not an apple supported method.. that is, as of now apple doesn't have a way to do this, so unless there's something in the music store files that allows them to be transferred, then this type of kiosk wouldn't work quite as well...

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
but it's not an apple supported method.. that is, as of now apple doesn't have a way to do this, so unless there's something in the music store files that allows them to be transferred, then this type of kiosk wouldn't work quite as well...

But why not the kiosk burning a CD? You could then take your new music home and encode it any way you see fit.

[dxp4acu]

Originally posted by lmalave
No, if it was a "World" series, you'd have national teams like with the World Cup. That way it could be U.S. vs. Japan vs. Korea vs. Latin American countries vs. anyone else that plays baseball.

I think you're referring to the Olympics???? The World Series really is the World and not the U.S. Have you seen who all is in the Majors? Guys like Sammy Sosa, Alfonso Soriano, Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, etc. Of course, there are a few guys left in the rest of the world that could play in the majors, but they wouldn't even make up 1 team!!! The MLB has the MVPs from all these different countries, so yes, it is the world series!!!

[Grimace]

because they don't want you to encode it any way you like.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Mudbug
But why not the kiosk burning a CD? You could then take your new music home and encode it any way you see fit.

yeah, that'd work. it's the ipod part that's the issue.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
because they don't want you to encode it any way you like.

then why give me the option of AAC, AIFF, MP3, or WAV at encoding, and then the different bitrates of each. If they didn't want you to be able to choose, then they'd give you one option at one bitrate.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by dxp4acu
I think you're referring to the Olympics???? The World Series really is the World and not the U.S. Have you seen who all is in the Majors? Guys like Sammy Sosa, Alfonso Soriano, Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, etc. Of course, there are a few guys left in the rest of the world that could play in the majors, but they wouldn't even make up 1 team!!! The MLB has the MVPs from all these different countries, so yes, it is the world series!!! Not to mention that lumping Canada into the USA is grounds for war!

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Spymac reports (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=378_0_5_0_C) that Apple will be featuring their new music service in special kiosks at Apple Stores:



Payment details are unknown at this time.

Has Spymac been right yet?

[hazmat]

Originally posted by Mudbug
But why not the kiosk burning a CD? You could then take your new music home and encode it any way you see fit.


Welll converting an AAC file to AIFF for burning a CD and then back to AAC or MP3 would yield a really crappy quality file.

Yeah, I think they will need to put something into the file to allow you to copy it off the iPod.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by hazmat
Welll converting an AAC file to AIFF for burning a CD and then back to AAC or MP3 would yield a really crappy quality file.

Yeah, I think they will need to put something into the file to allow you to copy it off the iPod.

Well, my understanding is that AAC->CD->MP3 gives a really poor quality audio file, but AAC->CD->AAC maintains most or all of the original quality. But, then, that's just my understanding. I haven't experimented with it...yet.

[hazmat]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Well, my understanding is that AAC->CD->MP3 gives a really poor quality audio file, but AAC->CD->AAC maintains most or all of the original quality. But, then, that's just my understanding. I haven't experimented with it...yet.

I hope you're right. But even if you are, I still would hope Apple would allow those files to be taken off the iPod for a lot of reasons listed, and also since if you already HAVE the iPod, burning to a CD just to take possiblly even one song home is a waste of money and materials.

[Mudbug]

Maybe what they're thinking is that if you own an iPod, then you probably own a mac (run with me on this one...) and if you own a mac and an iPod, then you probably have iTunes. And if you have an iPod and iTunes along with a mac, then you probably have internet access at home. So why go to a kiosk if you have an iPod? Make the music available to everyone (once again, lowest common denominator) that has a CD player - pretty ubiquitous at this point.

I understand that the windows element of the iPod clouds this a bit, but they can't use the service right now anyway... so i don't need to include them in my arguement for the moment - see the thread on iTunes for Windows (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=25682)

[mudbug65]

uh... the iPod is ALSO a firewire HD, so bringing your music home from an applestore kiosk and transferring it to your main computer would be as easy as drag and drop.

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by The Shadow
I'm just getting a bit frustrated with the "World Series Baseball" mentality (the World meaning the US).

Hello? Montreal Expos. Toronto Blue Jays.

But seriously, America is the largest single market in the world. It's just as much work to license music for sale in America as it is to do so for sale in Sri Lanka, so it makes perfect business sense that Apple should concentrate on the domestic market first. Sure, if you live overseas I can understand how you might be disappointed that the Music Service isn't available to you. But the fact that you're disappointed with it doesn't naturally translate into it's being a bad idea on Apple's part.

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by hazmat
Welll converting an AAC file to AIFF for burning a CD and then back to AAC or MP3 would yield a really crappy quality file.

Actually, it sounds just fine. I just did it with both, just to see. AAC-AIFF-MP3 192 kbps sounds fine, and AAC-AIFF-AAC sounds fine. In fact, I can't distingush between the first-generation AAC and the second-generation AAC in my highly unscientific listening tests. That is, I can hear subtle differences, but unless I look at the file names I can't tell you which one was encoded from which.

[rgmason]

Apple should install the Apple iPod Music Stations at Airports.

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by rgmason
Apple should install the Apple iPod Music Stations at Airports.

How's this for an idea? Apple sets up AirPort Extreme base stations in airport terminals. You open up your laptop and sign on to the network. But rather than providing you with Internet access, the wireless network connects your laptop to a server that lets you download FairPlay-encoded MPEG-4 movies. Say, for $10, you can download the widescreen MPEG-4 version of "The Matrix" and watch it on your laptop. At 11 Mbps, the download would take many minutes, but at 54 Mbps it wouldn't be bad at all. You launch a little application ("iFlicks") that lets you browse the library of available movies and choose which one or ones to buy. Click "BUY MOVIE," type in your password, and poof. When you get on the plane, you've got a new movie to watch. When you get home, you can burn the movie to DVD Video for personal use.

And it's not just movies. Miss last week's Simpsons? Download it for $2.50. Or get an entire season of Simpsons's for $30.

Such a service wouldn't compete with DVD's for the same reason iTunes Music Store doesn't really compete with CD's: people will pay more for high-quality media with extras. But it would be a great alternative.

And, of course, from there it's a short hop to video-on-demand to the home. We'd need to increase broadband speeds by a factor of 10 or so, but that shouldn't be too hard given enough time and incentive.

[Mudbug]

Jeff - I think that's a great idea, and one that probably isn't too far down the line. With wireless connection speeds increasing almost 4 fold just in the last year, movies on demand would be the obvious direction for the iTunes/iAMS service. Although since iMovie is already taken as a name, I guess we'd have to move to iFlix (or something to that effect). I for one would like to be able to do just that before boarding a flight. I mean, what else can you do while waiting for your plane or standing in line at the ticket counter?

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I mean, what else can you do while waiting for your plane or standing in line at the ticket counter?

We can get Homeland Security on board, too, because people who carry their entertainment with them on their laptops or who download it while in the airport have marginally less carry-on luggage, which means less to search or scan, which means shorter waits at the airport, which might even eventually translate into fewer TSA employees in the long run.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
We can get Homeland Security on board, too, because people who carry their entertainment with them on their laptops or who download it while in the airport have marginally less carry-on luggage, which means less to search or scan, which means shorter waits at the airport, which might even eventually translate into fewer TSA employees in the long run.

"Um, I'm sorry, sir. We need you to go ahead and download this copy of "The Matrix" to your laptop... It's a matter of National Security, you see."

hehe :D

[LimeiBook86]

I think this idea is great. They should also put these machines in malls that don't have Apple Stores this way there is a little bit of Apple in all of the malls. :D They should also have FireWire ports in the wall around the mall so you can charge your iPod while someone else is at the machine...:rolleyes:This is goign to be so cool! :cool:

[LimeiBook86]

Originally posted by Mudbug
"Um, I'm sorry, sir. We need you to go ahead and download this copy of "The Matrix" to your laptop... It's a matter of National Security, you see."

hehe :D

Hahahahaha, thats great haha!
Good one Mudbug, :D :cool: :)

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by LimeiBook86
I think this idea is great. They should also put these machines in malls that don't have Apple Stores this way there is a little bit of Apple in all of the malls. :D They should also have FireWire ports in the wall around the mall so you can charge your iPod while someone else is at the machine...:rolleyes:This is goign to be so cool! :cool:

Okay, so now you're just being silly. :D

No, really. The movie/tv show download idea sounds kinda interesting. Since they were so successful with the big 5 music co's, what about brokering a deal with the television networks for downloadable MPeg4 television shows - commercial free, encoded for copy protection (I hate that term) available for download for a few bucks a show. I for one would be willing to pay the same price as I would a DVD to get the entire first season or two of the simpsons downloaded to my machine. Then the iVideo/iWalk thing that those crazy spymac photoshop goobers keep mocking up might be a good idea. Take the second season of "The Sopranos" with you on that "interminably long car ride with the entire family to visit distant unknown relatives and see the Grand Canyon while you're at it this summer" trip.

There might be something to this, you know...

[ldjessee]

Hello,

Why would there need to be another software package to do your movies?

Here is my theory.

Apple developed Safari, just so they could build iTunes4.

Why did Apple really need a Browser? Sure it helps to make an Apple browser, but now that the Apple Music Store is out and it is obvious that iTunes is doing webbrowsing (even if it is only one site)...

And, remember, you can watch music video's with iTunes and Apple Music Store also.

I would buy some of the music videos out there, and I am sure there are others.

And, if you would buy a music video or a concert (video), then you would probably buy a movie.

I really see the Apple Music store as just the start to Apple Media store.

And, iTunes already handles it all (music, webpages, and video).

No need for new client software, just new backend software.

Well, hope this makes sense.

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by ldjessee
Why did Apple really need a Browser?

Because there were NO good free web browsers for the Mac. IE was just awful. Mozilla and their ilk are trash. OmniWeb looked great but had serious problems with CSS and JavaScript.

Apple NEEDED a browser. Besides, there's a heck of a lot more to Safari than just an HTML rendering component. If that was all they needed, why did they go through all the trouble of making the JavaScript component?

The iTunes Music Store is not, contrary to increasingly popular opinion, a web application.

No need for new client software, just new backend software.

Well, yes and no. If you imagine an iTunes for video media, it would actually be quite different from the iTunes we have today. I would rather see an iTunes for audio and an iFlicks for video than to see both functions crammed into the same program.

After all, it would be possible to cram music playback, calendaring, email, movie editing, and DVD burning into one big program, too, but Apple doesn't do things that way. Instead we have iTunes, iCal, Mail, iMovie, and iDVD. Adding an iFlicks (or whatever) would follow the model nicely.

[Stella]

I don't think Apple did create a javascript engine, that all was bundled along with KHTML. I'm sure they improved the Javascript functionality in KHTML however.

But yes, i am very sure they made Safari for other reasons - like having their own web browser, than just for AppleMusic. It makes OS/X more complete (than having to rely on dodgy microsoft products).


Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
Besides, there's a heck of a lot more to Safari than just an HTML rendering component. If that was all they needed, why did they go through all the trouble of making the JavaScript component?

[/B]

[Waluigi]

I realize this is a few years off, if at all, but I can't wait for something like this! Just a few questions though:

How big is a mpeg4 movie (say compared to an mpeg 2 movie)?
Can DVD players read mpeg4 and ACC?
Can consumer DVD burners fit the whole movie on a single disk?
Can anyone else start to see the demise of blockbuster (YES!!)?
Can Apple instead choose to make a connector (wireless??) that uses your computer as the DVD player and send audio and video to your TV the same exact way a stand alone DVD player does (rather then using TV-OUT and having no sound)?

One more thing I was thinking of........It would be way cool if you could share your home movies, or even publish your own movies similar to the way you use iCal, and can get people's calendars. Just another one of the many possibilities with this great idea.

--Waluigi

[delton05]

Before you all faint with excitment...

How long would any access port, firewire or whatever, be functional before someone plugs it up with gum or spray paint???

Minutes... in most locations.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by delton05
Before you all faint with excitment...

How long would any access port, firewire or whatever, be functional before someone plugs it up with gum or spray paint???

Minutes... in most locations.

Well, I welcome you to put gum or spray paint all over my airport extreme base station and see how well it performs.

(not really, but you get the point...)

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by Waluigi
I realize this is a few years off

Why? All the technology (save for the user interface, and encoded content) exists today. Content wouldn't take very long to get, especially with a "standard format" for each broadcaster to use (i.e. mpg4) at a standard bitrate and translation size, and interface could be a not very modified version of iTunes. I'd bet there are enough people in this forum alone that could put one together with the right beginning source code to work with.

<goes off to ponder the idea for REAL...>

[delton05]

Oh... for downloading a trancoded DVD at an airport you'd use airport extreme? Perhaps, you'd miss your fight with it's comparitively slow speed compared to FW. iPods don't have airport extreme either...

[mkaake]

Originally posted by mudbug65
uh... the iPod is ALSO a firewire HD, so bringing your music home from an applestore kiosk and transferring it to your main computer would be as easy as drag and drop.

that was my first thought. i don't actually have an ipod (wish i had the money, but then if i did, i prolly wouldn't be stuck in an os 9 world right now), but i assumed that using at as an external hard drive was simple as could be. like really simple. so why would you have this big problem? instead of syncing with itunes, just drag and drop from your ipod to your music folder...

but whatever. i guess since i don't really know from personal experience i could be wayy wayy off, but it seems like everyone is trying to make this harder than what it is...

matt

[mkaake]

would be freakin awesome to be able to download tv shows... direct to the mac, or even at a kiosk to an ipod to put on your mac when you get home...

matt

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by mkaake
that was my first thought. i don't actually have an ipod (wish i had the money, but then if i did, i prolly wouldn't be stuck in an os 9 world right now), but i assumed that using at as an external hard drive was simple as could be. like really simple. so why would you have this big problem? instead of syncing with itunes, just drag and drop from your ipod to your music folder...

but whatever. i guess since i don't really know from personal experience i could be wayy wayy off, but it seems like everyone is trying to make this harder than what it is...

matt

But the point is that it wouldn't be plug, unplug, and go. you'd be adding a bunch of steps to accomplish the same goal. While you and I would have no problem with this, the average Joe off the street probably would have problems with it, especially if they were PC iPod owners.

[LimeiBook86]

Originally posted by delton05
Before you all faint with excitment...

How long would any access port, firewire or whatever, be functional before someone plugs it up with gum or spray paint???

Minutes... in most locations.
I would guess and Apple employee would stand there to glance at the user and provide help. Also they can make a door to a CD-RW drive and a FireWire port slide open once money is inserted. Problem solved...

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by The Shadow
Can we have some PERSPECTIVE please, in the reporting? I'm just getting a bit frustrated with the "World Series Baseball" mentality (the World meaning the US).

Yeah, there are these two teams called the Blue Jays and the Expos that play in Toronto, Ontario and Montreal, Quebec. Last time I checked, those were CANADIAN provinces. You need to watch yourself, I know some Canadians who would bite your head off if you included them in the US.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Not to mention that lumping Canada into the USA is grounds for war!

LOL... except it would have to be during the winter cause Canadians can't fight without skates on. (good thing my girlfriend never goes to this site)

[Rower_CPU]

Let's continue the Safari vs Camino discussion here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=25884).