Ultra-thin 12'' MacBook Pro?

[Clive At Five]

and ultra thin means too thin to have an internal drive.

Why wouldn't you want an internal HD?????????

I could care less if it was .5" thicker and weighed even a pound more.

This is coming from someone who uses a laptop every day. Weight doesn't bother me as much as limited features. I've carreid around a beast of a lappy but have never had any qualms about it. A little smaller/lighter might be nice, but < 3 lbs... is unnecessary, IMO.

-Clive

[whatever]

I found the keyboard illumination one of the most useful innovations on my 15" PB... :) it was really easy to see the keys, no matter how bright the screen was set.

And are you just following the crowd in your hating of the GMA, or do you actually have a reason? (Because you'd be in a minority!)
I don't really hate GMA, I just don't know enough about it.

Apple claims that 80MB of memory is automatically allocated to it, but how much can this grow?

If I knew that for example: if I had 2GB of memory, that the GMA could use 512MB if available and unused.

Or if I was told that this formula was true, 512MB with 80MB allocated to GMA, so 1GB it would be 160MB and with 2GB it would be 320MB.

[kddpop]

Why wouldn't you want an internal HD?????????


i think these folks are really looking for a small tablet/pda/newton and not a laptop. perhaps we'll see a newton again. i doubt it though...didn't steve really hate the newton? didn't i read that somewhere?

~kyle

[lmalave]

Why wouldn't you want an internal HD?????????

I could care less if it was .5" thicker and weighed even a pound more.

This is coming from someone who uses a laptop every day. Weight doesn't bother me as much as limited features. I've carreid around a beast of a lappy but have never had any qualms about it. A little smaller/lighter might be nice, but < 3 lbs... is unnecessary, IMO.

-Clive

Seriously. That's Madness. I think Apple would want the 12" MBP to stand on its own as a full-fledged memeber of the MBP family.

I'll repeat it for the 3rd or 4th time: I think the 12" MBP will be a full-fledged MBP with optical drive, Express Card slot, dedicated graphics, and possibly even an illuminated keyboard. In other words, a MacBook Pro :rolleyes:
And I expect it will be in the neighborhood of 3.5 lbs., maybe a bit more (3.7 or 3.8 lbs. might be more realistic).

In other words, if Apple launches a true "ultrathin" by the "no internal drive" definition, then it WON'T be part of the "Pro" family. As has been suggested, it'll probably be marketed as something totally different like "MacBook mini", since it would have FUNDAMENTALLY different features than the PRO line.

For January, I would expect the true 12" MBP to be launched. I don't expect a true "MacBook mini" would be launched until at least mid-2007 when Santa Rosa is available.

[buffalo]

I'd love to have a small, light (under 4lbs??), pretty notebook to carry around. I'm not sure how I'd pay the estimated $1,700, but I guess I could wait for a refurb. Here's to hoping for MWSF!

[bigandy]

Why wouldn't you want an internal HD?????????

I could care less if it was .5" thicker and weighed even a pound more.

This is coming from someone who uses a laptop every day. Weight doesn't bother me as much as limited features. I've carreid around a beast of a lappy but have never had any qualms about it. A little smaller/lighter might be nice, but < 3 lbs... is unnecessary, IMO.
i was talking about an OPTICAL DRIVE, as you'll notice if you read the post i was referring to. :rolleyes:

i go more for ultraportables. for two years i had a 15" powerbook, and while a stunning machine, was just too big. i need something with MacBook specs (plus graphics for FCS) and i need it in the same, or preferably smaller package.


I don't really hate GMA, I just don't know enough about it.

Apple claims that 80MB of memory is automatically allocated to it, but how much can this grow?

If I knew that for example: if I had 2GB of memory, that the GMA could use 512MB if available and unused.

Or if I was told that this formula was true, 512MB with 80MB allocated to GMA, so 1GB it would be 160MB and with 2GB it would be 320MB.
GMA allocates up to 80mb RAM. No more.

[johnnyjibbs]

This is the news I have been waiting for!

I am the proud owner of a 12" PowerBook G4 (rev B), which I bought in September 2003 and am using to write this post now. It's the best computer I have ever had and it still works wonders. I don't need replacing this any time soon, but my 80GB HD is brimming full with photos and music and, should anything happen to my beauty in the next couple of years, I will be looking for a new one to sit along side it - this Little Al has served me (is serving me) well!

I have to say that I never particularly wanted anything bigger - and the MacBook Pros are out of my price range for what I need. On the other hand, the Mac Books have crap video cards and I prefer metal to plastic. They are also bigger than my current model (and I need line in - not sure if they have them; the iBooks didn't).

Something around the £1000 mark, small, decent screen res, iSight built-in, dual Intel duo 2s, lightweight, thin, ultra-portable and stylish - fits the bill perfectly. In my opinion, this will happen because there has been a gap in the line-up since the disappearance of the 12". They couldn't exactly keep it there, considering everything else was so much powerful, but maybe it just takes time.

Now I know that there was always the issue of whether it was worth it over the iBook, considering the extra price, but the better keyboard, line in, metallic case, extra oomph and DVD-writing capabilities gave it the edge in my book. It was always crippled slightly and unnecessarily compared its bigger sisters I always thought, but let's hope Apple can pack as much punch as possible into the new one! And how about illuminated keyboards?

If this comes out at Macworld 2007, expect me to hop on board the rev B or C!

[XForge]

I am ***SO*** there.

[Clive At Five]

i was talking about an OPTICAL DRIVE, as you'll notice if you read the post i was referring to. :rolleyes:

I stand corrected. Good riddance optical drive. Optical media is barbaric anyway. Why use something so susceptible to scratching? We could just use a matrix of 4 flash chips and have instant transfer speeds (limited only by the I/O speed of the port in use).

*rolls eyes*

Companies...

-Clive

[japanime]

I second wholeheartedly.

Not only is it the MacBook the best computer I've ever used, but it's also the best laptop value currently available, IMO. This was reaffirmed when I helped my girlfriend shop for a laptop a couple of weeks ago. Most of the laptops she looked at were the same price and weight (e.g. the Sony Vaio C series at 13.3", 5.1 lbs, and $1349). She ended up settling on the Sony Vaio SZ260 for $1649, which is much lighter at 3.8 lbs. and was only available at that price because it's the older Core Duo model (the newer Core 2 Duo version is $2200).

And guess what? After owning the Vaio for just 2 weeks, she already has spyware she can't figure out how to get rid of. When you factor in OS X and incomparable design (1" thin, MagSafe, etc.), the MacBooks are a *far* better value than the PC competition, IMO.

Agreed.

I bought a MacBook to replace my PB G4 12-inch. The two are miles apart (with the MB offering much better performance, even when running Adobe CS2 under Rosetta).

My guess is that many of the folks who are pooh-poohing the MB are the ones who can't afford a MB right now, and therefore feel compelled to bash it. (Not all, but many.)

[wmmk]

i would be mad, but i should remind myself that i got a 15" for $1499, which is amazing, I have more VRAM than this could ever have, i have a faster CPU than this would probably have, and a 12" widescreen would suck for photo work anyway. then again, if it's a touchscreen...

[Chef Medeski]

iTunes has already killed the CD.

ANYWAYS.

First of all, iTunes barely has a fraction of all the individuals out there. Secondly, their quality is so ***** anyone with any thoughts of getting the most of their money by not buying songs that sound like a cat attackin someone, will not buy. Thirdly, the number of people without iPods to play all this music is more than you think.

I personally have no songs from iTunes. Download no music. Its all from CD. And I have over 800 CDs on my computer. Just face it. The only thing iTunes has killed is the Radio star.

[Clive At Five]

The only thing iTunes has killed is the Radio star.

*sings* iTunes killed the radio star, iTunes killed the radio star, in my mind...

Cat attacking someone? That's a little overboard. Only true audiophiles will think that. Most people won't. For them, the iTS is a suitable cheap and conveinient alternative.

-Clive

[axboi87]

I don't like the idea of it lacking an optical drive. I used to own a 12'' pbook but couldn't stand the lack of a card slot, gigabit ethernet, and the low ram ceiling. Oh and not to mention the lack of a backlit keyboard and Firewire 800. I've been hoping they'd come out with a 12'' MBP that has all things that the 12'' pbook lacked and more (camera, front row, dual core, magsafe). I could care less about it being ultrathin, especially if that makes it lack even more than the pbook.

[Chef Medeski]

Please, please, please be true!!!!!!

I am not buying a computer really soon (will be getting one around June or so) but this would be great!!! I have been wanting a small version of the MBP since the beginning and i think there is a market for one. My sis is going to be getting my 12in iBook (which I love the size and wait of) and i want to replace it with something close in size. I have my iMac for heavier stuff all i need in a portable is durability (aluminum case), portability (small size), and good battery life.

Please be true

Plastic is more durable than aluminum. You have an iBook. I have a PB. There is a hook in the bottom right corner. My battery is slanted. My screen is slightly tilted and the latch is uneven. Due to the durable, premium aluminium. Give me usability not look.

[Chef Medeski]

Even thogh 0.5 lb. doesn't make as much of a difference on the larger MBPs, any user can appreciate extra battery life.

More of a difference than the difference in weight between a Macbook and its next largest brother. About the difference of a 12" PB and a 13" Macbook. So... yeah... its a difference.

[Chef Medeski]

er... may I disagree?

Why would Apple want to encourage the purchase of physical DVDs when you will soon (knock on wood) be able to d/l a plethora of movie content on the iTS? A movie player, maybe... but it'd probably be a video iPod.

-Clive

Lets see. Backup of data. Backup of whole hard drives. Because they aren't delivering HD content the only real reason to use Blu-Ray. Because thats what most people want, well except for you.

[Chef Medeski]

You can't use iPod HardDrives to boot and run an OS on. I mean, you *can* but they die VERY easily after extended use as a boot-device. Until something more reliable comes around (or flash capacity become cost-effective in large amounts), the 2.5" Laptop HDs will have to do.



What's wrong with a USB Flash device? Even a 4GB one (approx. single-layer DVD capacity) is around $50, PLUS they're small, PLUS they're easy to carry around, PLUS they're instant Read/Write (limited only by the speed of your USB port). Compare that to a DVD. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do sans optical bay is watch physical media. You could, just as easily, rip a few DVDs and encode them as h.248 and watch near-DVD quality movies from a device the size of your thumb. To save yourself the hassle, you could set up an Automator Script to automatically rip and encode your DVDs when you insert them.

Think outside the consumer box. ;)

-Clive
Weekly backup. 5 CDs used. 52 pack is about $40 for DVDs. So... $200 for backup.

4GB: $50 x 5 x 52 = $65,000.

Yes think outside of the consumer box. Business people need backup solutions.

[Fredou51]

I think considering the posts that I see here that Apple really needs two model.

1. A 12" MBP that is basically the same thing than the 15" concerning performance but in the 12" form factor.

2. An ultra-portable, ultra-light, ultra-thin(0.7" or maybe even 0.6") with a 10.6" widescreen with 16 GB of flash plus an 80 GB hard drive (if it's not the boot drive, could they use an iPod hard drive?) and no optical drive.

Frederic

Edit:
Weekly backup. 5 CDs used. 52 pack is about $40 for DVDs. So... $200 for backup.

4GB: $50 x 5 x 52 = $65,000.

Yes think outside of the consumer box. Business people need backup solutions.

Are you comparing that with DVD-R because it's really not the same thing as a Flash drive is rewritable (even more easily rewritable than DVD-RW)?

[Chef Medeski]

So I have a question for alls-yalls to chew on.

Why would Apple go through all the hassle of making a 12" widscreen MBP when they already have a blueprint for a 13" widescreen MB? From a logistics standpoint, I think it would be much, much easier to tap the same supply of 13" widescreen MB LCDs than to add another supply to the production inventory. It would STILL reduce the footprint considerably, plus would have the bells and whistles of a MBP. HD, RAM, video card, back-lit keyboard, the like.

Now THERE's a machine that would help some people off the fence about a MB or MBP... myself included.

-Clive
HD, RAM.... bells and whistles of a MBP.... or just like every computer. ;)

[Grakkle]

ANYWAYS.

First of all, iTunes barely has a fraction of all the individuals out there. Secondly, their quality is so ***** anyone with any thoughts of getting the most of their money by not buying songs that sound like a cat attackin someone, will not buy. Thirdly, the number of people without iPods to play all this music is more than you think.


Righty-o. CDs may be archaic, but iTunes certainly hasn't made them obsolete. I sometimes buy songs from iTunes, but I prefer CDs. iTunes song quality is massively inferior to an AIFF file ripped from a CD.

I wouldn't buy a notebook without an optical drive myself. Optical drives, for all the nuisance, are still essential because there isn't yet a viable technology to replace them (or anyway, there isn't a viable technology that computer makers use).

[Chef Medeski]

I was under the impression that these two devices might be combined into one. You know, what Airport Express did for music iTV will do for video. With a snazzy software interface via iTunes. I guess there would/should be another base station once the 802.11n is a little closer to being ratified.

I mean, for years people on this site have been asking for an Airport Express that streamed video. That's the iTV. I wonder how many of those people asking for it complained about the iTV when we got a preview? Anyone care to step up and admit it?
WTF did Airport Express do for Music. No one uses it. Theres like 5 people who bought that thing. For $150 NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY A DEVICE that replaces a long cord.

[Kendall015]

I think considering the posts that I see here that Apple really needs two model.

1. A 12" MBP that is basically the same thing than the 15" concerning performance but in the 12" form factor.

2. An ultra-portable, ultra-light, ultra-thin(0.7" or maybe even 0.6") with a 10.6" widescreen with 16 GB of flash plus an 80 GB hard drive (if it's not the boot drive, could they use an iPod hard drive?) and no optical drive.

Frederic

What use would the second model be? What would the ultra small ultra light form factor allow you to do that a 12" form factor would be too big for? I am all for tiny cool looking computers as much as the next person, but after using Sony's Vaio UX UMPC, I have to say that it serves no purpose. The MacBook is pretty small, and the 12" Powerbook was even smaller than that...but I don't see what advantages would come from making a smaller laptop than those two.

[Chef Medeski]

:confused:

Umm..it's the height in *pixels* that matters not the height in inches!!!

If the 12" PB was 1024x768, and the 12" MBP is 1280x800, then the MBP would hactually have just as much vertical real estate!!!

800 > 768

P.S. I've also seen Sony's 11.1" widescreen and it's also quite readable at 1280x800.
Virtual Real Estate. What about room for eye-ball movement.

[Chef Medeski]

A student-discounted MB is $1049... but one should consider not only the price, but the investment in yourself for the next four years. Life expectancy of PC laptops are rarely quoted as 4 years - I have been using my Mac (iMac G4 swivel neck) for 6 years and it still works great - so you have two choices: Buy a $700 "affordable" PC which will die or become unusable within 2-3 years, or buy a $1200 Mac which will last you long after college is through.

Apple doesn't sell crap. That's why it's more expensive. If someone is too cheap to put out a little more money for a long-term self-investment, then they deserve to be trapped using their imminently dying PCs.

I haven't even made an argument about OS & bundled software... but really... need I?

And also, as long as you're paying 12+ grand/yr for college, what's another $1200 of student loans? I know a guy who took out a $3000 loan to buy a Dell XPS so he could play World of WarCraft between classes. It's college, and college loans exist for a reason. So you can pay for the things you need while you're in college. If a mid-class WoW fix is what you need, buy a freaking XPS, or MBP or whatever it takes. You'll only have that opportunity once.

-Clive
Agree with you in prinicpal. You are buying extra quality. He isn't stupid though for not buying extra quality. That his decision. What if he only wants it for a year or two and doesn't want to spend extra money for something he doesn't want to keep.

On top of that 6 years for a desktop is very different than 6 years for a laptop that moves at all.

And your final point is just whack. BUY WHATEVER THE HELL U WANT. Dont worry about paying it off. Youre in colelge!!!! there is nothing after college. Responsibilities don't change due to low-interest. I'm not buying a Benz because I'm a student.

[Kendall015]

WTF did Airport Express do for Music. No one uses it. Theres like 5 people who bought that thing. For $150 NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY A DEVICE that replaces a long cord.

I use it to control my speakers when I'm sitting in bed w/ my MBP. To be honest, though, it is more useful to me as a print server than anything else. And, no, it is not worth $150.

[Digitaljim]

Apple doesn't sell crap. That's why it's more expensive. If someone is too cheap to put out a little more money for a long-term self-investment, then they deserve to be trapped using their imminently dying PCs.
-Clive

I would have totally agreed with you before the intel switch, but recently Apple's quality control & build quality in general has started to decline.

The Macbooks just don't feel as well made as the iBooks did and there are many many more reports of them being returned due to defects. My friend's gone through two since purchasing in November and the one he's got now has a loose fitting lid. I've noticed on all of his replacemnts an unfinished-feeling 'sharpness' to some of the edges - like something that's been roughly cut and not smoothed off afterwards (sorry i'm getting too technical here..)

I've used some Dell laptops recently and, although being pig-ugly and lacking OSX, they're good solid machines that cost considerably less than the comparable Apple offering. I'm not saying i'd choose one over a Macbook/Pro - i'm too much of a industrial design fascist - but quality isn't something Apple necessarily have as a trump card anymore.

[mduser63]

I would have totally agreed with you before the intel switch, but recently Apple's quality control & build quality in general has started to decline.

The Macbooks just don't feel as well made as the iBooks did and there are many many more reports of them being returned due to defects. My friend's gone through two since purchasing in November and the one he's got now has a loose fitting lid.

I've used some Dell laptops recently and, although being pig-ugly and lacking OSX, they're good solid machines that cost considerably less than the comparable Apple offering. I'm not saying i'd choose one over an Macbook/Pro - i'm too much of a industrial design fascist - but quality isn't something Apple necessarily have as a trump card anymore.

I agree that the MacBooks have been problematic, or at least that's the impression given by hanging around the Mac web (one of the three people I know with a MB has the yellow palmrests). However, it seems that the iMacs have been very reliable with few if any widespread complaints. I know mine has been absolutely perfect (20" Core Duo).

[OdduWon]

i think "ultra thin" is clearly ment to be a tablet ;)


yeah i can see in now sitting on one side of my book while i do my homework, or tucked safley in the pocked of my nifty trapper keeper:p

[Hasty]

if this machine is running wi-fi at 802.11n then (from wikipedia) transfer rate should be: 200 Mbit/s typical to 540 Mbit/s Max.

DVD read write speeds at 16X is 177.28 Mbit/s

at that kind of wireless transfer rate there may be no need for the machine to carry a drive onboard.

[Chef Medeski]

Over at http://www.dynamism.com they are available for the US market. They put it under the palmrest.

Nice stuff. TabletKiosk has it right. A 12" keyboardless Touchscreen Tablet without optical yet running UMPC software so you actually have a full keyboard that you can use while holding the device in two hands. They put a full laptop HD in there for up to 180GB. 1.0GB of RAM. 1.5 Ghz processor. But its only 3 pounds and quite slim. Its pretty much perfect. Tabletkiosk i215 (http://www.tabletkiosk.com/tkstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=17&idproduct=121)

If Apple did that with some nice software such as touchscreen recognition, not taking software. I mean with a webcam. It would be so nice. I would buy it in an instant. Just give it a 7 hr battery. Drop in Robson technology for super quick start ups and low battery drain. It would be SO GREAT!!!! Apple DO IT. If thats what they created. I swear. I will love you apple. Thats exactly what I want.

[SMM]

They do sell what you're talking about for $1099. It's called the MacBook. NOT a Pro version, a consumer version.

The rumors listed above talk about a 12" MacBookPRO. Better graphics, better quality case, pretty much better everything. What you're talking about CAN be accomplished for under $1500 if they decided to go the consumer route, which it doesn't sound like they are.

Yes, and if you read my original post, it starts with "Drat, I was hoping....". I have posted about a need for a tablet for automating Field Operations for a couple months. I think I am able to post a suggestion that there is another market out there. Thanks!

[Chef Medeski]

I think considering the posts that I see here that Apple really needs two model.

1. A 12" MBP that is basically the same thing than the 15" concerning performance but in the 12" form factor.

2. An ultra-portable, ultra-light, ultra-thin(0.7" or maybe even 0.6") with a 10.6" widescreen with 16 GB of flash plus an 80 GB hard drive (if it's not the boot drive, could they use an iPod hard drive?) and no optical drive.

Frederic

Edit:


Are you comparing that with DVD-R because it's really not the same thing as a Flash drive is rewritable (even more easily rewritable than DVD-RW)?
No, I realize that it would be utterly silly to do such a thing. Yet, he is trying to point out that data storage on a DVD is an utterly useless endeavor. However, this is one situation where it is most definetly not.

And second option sounds great. Just one thing. Less Flash (it needs to be less than $3,000). Robson for battery life. Bit bigger screen. Take away the HD and make it a touchscreen. PERFECT!! Thats a note-taking machine.

[backsidetailsli]

will the rest of the lineup become ultra thin too¿

[SMM]

I would have totally agreed with you before the intel switch, but recently Apple's quality control & build quality in general has started to decline.

The Macbooks just don't feel as well made as the iBooks did and there are many many more reports of them being returned due to defects. My friend's gone through two since purchasing in November and the one he's got now has a loose fitting lid. I've noticed on all of his replacemnts an unfinished-feeling 'sharpness' to some of the edges - like something that's been roughly cut and not smoothed off afterwards (sorry i'm getting too technical here..)

I've used some Dell laptops recently and, although being pig-ugly and lacking OSX, they're good solid machines that cost considerably less than the comparable Apple offering. I'm not saying i'd choose one over a Macbook/Pro - i'm too much of a industrial design fascist - but quality isn't something Apple necessarily have as a trump card anymore.

Sorry, but that is malarky. I have now upgraded someone to every computer Apple makes. I just bought a MBP. It is better than my PB. I have MP which is better than my two PM's. The engineering and craftsmanship are the best there is...by far!

[gonnabuyamac]

will the rest of the lineup become ultra thin too¿

it's funny to me (owning my first mac - a 15" c2d mbp) that there is talk of an ultra thin laptop. my mbp is crazy thin already! compared to pretty much any pc laptop on the market, the current mbp is thinner than pretty much anything you'll find out there... that's not saying that it wouldn't be cool to be thinner, just don't know where they'd put the parts. if you look at the side of the mbp, there's not much more room vertically for the dvi and ethernet ports. any thinner, and they couldn't be on there. not to mention the firewire ports, etc.

[sturmnacht]

Apple is afraid to put a discrete graphics card in a Macbook. I don't really expect an optical drive in a 12" MBP while keeping the thickness at 1" or thinner with a discrete graphics card. I do expect some sort of dock that contains a dual-layer DVD burner like the Toshiba Libretto U105.

Here are my predictions:

Laptop:
12.1" widescreen
100GB 2.5" hard drive (upgradable to 200GB)
Core 2 Duo 1.66GHz to 2.33GHz Intel processor
1GB SO-DIMM memory upgradable to 4GB
ATI Radeon X1400 graphics
Expresscard slot
0.95 inch thick
iSight cam
Magsafe power
4 pounds
5 hour battery life

Dock:
6X Dual-Layer DVD burner
0.3 - 0.5 inch thick
DVI out

[CommodityFetish]

I think considering the posts that I see here that Apple really needs two model.

1. A 12" MBP that is basically the same thing than the 15" concerning performance but in the 12" form factor.

2. An ultra-portable, ultra-light, ultra-thin(0.7" or maybe even 0.6") with a 10.6" widescreen with 16 GB of flash plus an 80 GB hard drive (if it's not the boot drive, could they use an iPod hard drive?) and no optical drive.



I agree, it seems there would be room for both of these models, call them MBP 12" and MacBook mini/nano

And keep a quality keyboard on the second option, for those of us who primarily do word processing, email, etc. on the go... (no tablet for me please...)


PS. The idea of a laptop without an optical drive naturally assumes having an external one that can be left at home or taken with. Then I can do my backups, installs, media uploads, burns, what-have-you without having to lug the drive around (unless I choose to...) That is, I don't think anyone's arguing to not have any optical drive access at all, just to make it external.

[CommodityFetish]

...and if they make ultra light (<3 lbs) laptops with optical drives, that's great, but I would still rather trade it in for battery life, lighter weight, bigger hard drive, less heat, whatever else they can give me, since I still so very rarely ever need the optical drive at all, and especially while on the go. ;)

[Digitaljim]

Sorry, but that is malarky. I have now upgraded someone to every computer Apple makes. I just bought a MBP. It is better than my PB. I have MP which is better than my two PM's. The engineering and craftsmanship are the best there is...by far!

I concede that i've had no problems with my MBP either, but on the other hand I haven't noticed the build quality being any better than a comparable PB.

I suppose the point i'm trying to make is that some (read: the consumer line) Apple products appear to have dipped in quality. I don't think it's a perfect causal relationship, but increasingly lower prices seem to be subject to a trade-off with quality, as would seem intuitive.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Macbook. It's sexy & a great buy & I'd choose it over a Dell everytime... but you have to wonder why there's such a huge price difference between the MB and MBP line.

[mashinhead]

Apple would happily sacrifice sales of a $1000-1300 consumer machine to a $1700-1800 professional machine.

What exactly makes you guys think this would be a professional machine. i mean other than the aluminum casing i didn't see the 12 pb in the same leage was the 15 or 17. It had no dual dvi, and no fw 800, and no pci card slot, i don't think they'll fit it into a 12 mbp and thats all that's missing from a MB to make it a pro. I mean "professional" should be defined by features where it seems to me it will be just defined be casing. I mean it really is just a subnotebook for useres that want something small, but its not a pro notebook, nor was a 12 pb. i really don't get it. what i want is the features of a 15 without the screen a TRUE small professional notebook that is easy to carry around and i can connect to a screen at a desk instead of being pigeon wholed in to haveing by a computer with a larger screen to access other features i may need or want. Thats the gap that has to be filled.

[muffinman]

i worry that the 12 inch widescreen will look too small. if only there was a 13.3 widescreen macbook pro. now that i would buy. perfect for the college student and traveler.

[kildraik]

Wow, imagine that. A 12" laptop weighing less than a 15" version of the same laptop. :rolleyes:

Ultra thin? They're already only 1" thick! :eek:
I wonder how you would make it any smaller and still be able to put in an optical drive or hard drive?

I'm honestly going for the tablet. 12" is mighty small for a laptop, and being less than 1" thin....

Hmm. Maybe I'll be investing in two new apple products after christams! (iPhone and this)

[PODshady]

I am happy with my current MacBook Pro... I wont be upgrading for a few years.

[inkhead]

It's an ultra-thin portable tablet, with multitouch. It's a whole new breed of computer. It's not just a MacBook Pro "lite" or something.

[Eduardo1971]

Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

Kids, kids.:p

It will be called the Mini Macbook Pro.
:eek:

[Clive At Five]

Lets see. Backup of data. Backup of whole hard drives. Because they aren't delivering HD content the only real reason to use Blu-Ray. Because thats what most people want, well except for you.

Okay, thanks for taking me out of context... To clarify, we were talking about a portable BluRay media player, which I stated would not be a smart move for Apple seeing as how it would dissuade people from buying digital content from the iTunes Store. Comprende?

Weekly backup. 5 CDs used. 52 pack is about $40 for DVDs. So... $200 for backup.

4GB: $50 x 5 x 52 = $65,000.

Yes think outside of the consumer box. Business people need backup solutions.

Man, you really like to ignore what I was originally talking about.

FIRST, we were on the subject of DVD alternatives.
SECOND, I never said optical drives were useless.
THIRD, why on earth would you be using an ultra-portable laptop to back up gigabytes and gigabytes of data?
FOURTH, there are other even less expensive solutions for data backup: Tapes, rotate & re-record, etc. Never would I suggest using flash media to do weekly backups of a mainframe or other server... nor would I ever suggest doing it on an Ultra-Portable laptop.

My post was simply aimed at those who were complaining about a lack of optical drive in an ultra-portable... and at no point was I advocating the end of DVDs or CDs or BluRay all together. That would be ridiculous.

-Clive

[gooddog]

I don't feel the 12" should compromise on features.
It ought to be a true miniature marvel of design like
the Cooper Mini car -- not a sawed off version of something bigger.

Therefore :

GOTTA have lit keyboard : I have such a hassle seeing my G4 12" keys in the dimmed down classroom where I use a digital projector. I have tried the USB LED's --
ugh !!! major POS.
Black characters on a silver key face didn't help either -- so make with the lit keys already.

ALso -- leave the drives !!! I need them - even double layer, if possible.

The wide screen is great -- please NO GLOSSY !

THINNESS : enough is enough -- I want STURDY hardware - especially in a portable : what, you gonna make it so it flops over in a breeze ? So, unless you have some honeycomb of carbon fiber or the like, don't obsess so much on thinnnes, OK ?

Hey ! What about the camera rotates to face forward- ehh ?

Ever use Eye-TV's hybrid dongle ? Pretty neat, yes ?
So why not build one of those in ?

And , please, an optional killer Video processor ---
My G4 12" is the fastest one I own, and it almost
handles HD TV terrestrial with few stutters : a killer
chip would be great.

--- gooddog

/
: * ] AAAaaaaRRRrrFFfff !!!
\

*********************************

[Quboid]

I think it'll be too expensive compared to its predecessor. Won't buy it.

[finchna]

Doesn't make sense--they have 13, 15, 17. Make a 13" ultra-thin. Why waste fabricating on an inch?

[SMM]

The point is: people WANT a replacement for the 12" PB of ol'...not just a MB, but a full-featured MBP in a small footprint...and please, no bare-bones, ultralight subnotebooks...we need a REAL yet smaller MBP...that's all.

Optical drive? Check.
Backlit keyboard? Check.
Basic I/O, 12"/13" screen, widescreen? Check.

I am sold if something like that comes out...nothing more, nothing less.

Leave the PowerBook Duos and 2400s in the past...they are not needed.

You said there was no market for this. I guess you now recognize your error?

[thejadedmonkey]

Ok, so there's a tablet rumor, and a 12" MBP rumor. can we combine em please?

What we'll be seeing is a 12" Tablet PC. This is NOT a convertible, but an all out tablet. However, and this is a big however, it will have a docking station which will turn it into a laptop.

Think about it.. a tablet with a connector on the side to attach it to a dock..

The dock will have a backlit keyboard, and underneath it a DVD drive, 2nd battery, 2nd HDD, and maybe even a dedicated graphics card. How crazy would that be??

[Jimmieboy]

Too bad that I'm not looking for a new computer for another year and a half. Oh well. *hugs iMac*

[BRLawyer]

You said there was no market for this. I guess you now recognize your error?

Where? The only thing I ever said was that there is NO market for a damn tablet...you may also add extremely small subnotebooks (9"/10" and driveless notebooks), for that matter...

A 12" MBP is ALL I've been looking for, and I truly hope Apple releases it...so I think you've mistaken me for someone else, sorry.

[Clive At Five]

And your final point is just whack. BUY WHATEVER THE HELL U WANT. Dont worry about paying it off. Youre in colelge!!!! there is nothing after college. Responsibilities don't change due to low-interest. I'm not buying a Benz because I'm a student.

What?! Low interest is a perfect reason to buy what you can. Do you know how many people buy a house when - and only when - they can get the lowest possible interest? oh yeah... everyone... except for the affluent. So let's say 95+% of the population.

-Clive

[koobcamuk]

A tablet? I have always thought they're cool and I wanted one as a windows user - but now I am back on track with Macs, why would I want a tablet? Why would many people want tablets? It's a gimmick really. Productivity for word processing goes down for one thing.

No, only a 12" MBP would make me sell my MacBook and buy something more portable. I heavily considered getting a 12" PowerBook but size and weight aren't too disimilar to the MacBook and the MacBook is so much more powerful. It was a no brainer.

[fraggle]

Matte screens have more accurate colors, though, which is important when actually doing PROfessional work (e.g. print design).

Not all professional work has a need for correct colors... Think software development, for example.

[emotion]

Not all professional work has a need for correct colors... Think software development, for example.

Pro audio is another example.

In fact for my main application, Ableton Live 6, a discrete graphics card is not a necessity either.

[rubberduck007]

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-External-Interface-WDG1C5000N/dp/B000EXTXSI/sr=8-1/qid=1165250434/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9384431-4977623?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

wow - God must have designed that... a thing of rare beauty... watch ya back Ives! :D

[koobcamuk]

wow - God must have designed that... a thing of rare beauty... watch ya back Ives! :D
Why have you posted this here?

Anyway, it's ok looking. Nothing worth getting all hot about.

[reflex]

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-External-Interface-WDG1C5000N/dp/B000EXTXSI/sr=8-1/qid=1165250434/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9384431-4977623?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

It looks ok, but in the store I got the impression the button feels a bit flimsy.

[Digitaljim]

What we'll be seeing is a 12" Tablet PC. This is NOT a convertible, but an all out tablet. However, and this is a big however, it will have a docking station which will turn it into a laptop.



I love this idea! Genius.

I'm not very clued up on tablet PCs though: in my mind they seem very vulnerable to cracked screens, especially if you use them on the go. I can't help but think carrying around a 0.7" thick fully exposed screen would be a certain disaster - i think of myself as quite careful, but my laptops always get dents and scuffs.

[PodHead]

I have a sony ultraportable, with an integrated optical drive. I don't need to take anything else with me, not even the power adapter unless it's a very long journey. I'd hate to have to lug around a bag full of add-ons and the integrated drive allows me to watch dvd movies on train/airplane while travelling.
As you can see there are people that see great value in a integrated optical drive and there are so many around that doesn't seem like adding one compromises size/portability that much.
It all depends on your intended use and which category of users Apple will be targeting at... and I have my fingers crossed ;)


Exactly!! Who are these people, who would even for a second, consider a PRO model lappy minus an optical drive. Lets just strip the HDD and boot from an external too while were at it.:confused: Then we could carry this thing around in our shirt pocket:rolleyes:

[sachamun]

Allright:
12" MBP with 2 GB RAM and 160 GB HDD= $1999
20" Cinema Display= $699
iPhone= $299

Total= $3k...:D

Looks like you forgot the 80% apple tax!
It is fun to dream though...

[lmalave]

I would have totally agreed with you before the intel switch, but recently Apple's quality control & build quality in general has started to decline.

The Macbooks just don't feel as well made as the iBooks did and there are many many more reports of them being returned due to defects. My friend's gone through two since purchasing in November and the one he's got now has a loose fitting lid. I've noticed on all of his replacemnts an unfinished-feeling 'sharpness' to some of the edges - like something that's been roughly cut and not smoothed off afterwards (sorry i'm getting too technical here..)

I've used some Dell laptops recently and, although being pig-ugly and lacking OSX, they're good solid machines that cost considerably less than the comparable Apple offering. I'm not saying i'd choose one over a Macbook/Pro - i'm too much of a industrial design fascist - but quality isn't something Apple necessarily have as a trump card anymore.

Sorry, anectdotal evidence is NOT admissible. We really won't know if build quality declined until a comprehensive survey is done by a professional customer survey organization.

Personally, I have owned an iBook G3, iBook G4, and MacBook. I will come right out and say that the MacBook is *vastly* superior in build quality to the iBooks. Everything about it feels more solid and polished.

- the keyboard and trackpad feel VASTLY superior
- the wrist rests seem LESS prone to discoloration than the iBooks (unless my hands are just cleaner since then)
- In general, the case feels much more solid and rugged: no gaps anywhere in the casing, no latch, no removable rubber "feet", MagSafe, etc., etc.

I would say I am JUST as impressed by the MacBook's *improvement* in build quality over the iBook as I am in the performance improvements over the iBook. Even the heat/fan noise issues are about the same a in the iBooks - people just tend to have a short memory!

[lmalave]

I think it'll be too expensive compared to its predecessor. Won't buy it.

Rumors are $1700 or $1800 (from Engadget).

I think that's about what the original 12" PBs debuted at. Sure, they were down to $1600 by the end of the PB's life, but I believe that was after price drops over its lifetime. I would expect the 12" MBP to launch at $1799.

[mpw]

...
- the keyboard and trackpad feel VASTLY superior
- the wrist rests seem LESS prone to discoloration than the iBooks (unless my hands are just cleaner since then)
- In general, the case feels much more solid and rugged: no gaps anywhere in the casing, no latch, no removable rubber "feet", MagSafe, etc., etc.
...
...Even the heat/fan noise issues are about the same a in the iBooks - people just tend to have a short memory!
I prefer the keyboard, but would love it to be backlit.
The front edge needs rounding, the MacBook cuts into my wrists.
It's hotter than my G3 iBook.

Other than that I'd agree.

[whawhat]

man, i just got a macbook last month......i have to say i'm not that happy with the quality/feel (lots of glitches, the black is impossible to keep clean, still pretty heavy, the sides of the machine are "soft"and you can literally press it in) of the machine but stuck with it because i needed a smaller laptop (already have 2 other 15" powerbooks)....oh well, guess i will put it on ebay if this rumor turns out to be true (look for it 200gb HD and 2gb RAM)

[Clive At Five]

It looks ok, but in the store I got the impression the button feels a bit flimsy.

I second that. Aside from the cool blue emblum on the "spine" it looked cheap overall.

-Clive

[mkrishnan]

I prefer the keyboard, but would love it to be backlit.
The front edge needs rounding, the MacBook cuts into my wrists.
It's hotter than my G3 iBook.

To be fair, though, each of these is a design issue and not a build quality issue.

I'm very curious to see what comes of this rumor. Even if I don't buy it, I would love to see Apple do something really adventurous with their next addition to their portable lines....

[Josias]

Looks like you forgot the 80% apple tax!
It is fun to dream though...

No seriously, I got $2800 in a bank account, ready to blow whenever I want, and since my MacBook has discoloration and whining, I'm gonna get it replaced as soon as I can be without a Mac for a few weeks. I might pay the difference up to a MacBook Pro, or something like that.:D

[AidenShaw]

Exactly!! Who are these people, who would even for a second, consider a PRO model lappy minus an optical drive.
When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:


Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90&#37; of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)

My Dell Latitude D620 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is &#188;" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

[mkrishnan]

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 61mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

I totally understand where you're coming from... although these things are all variable depending on one's needs. I *hate* the pro/consumer argument... but for instance....

All your comments sound like they come from a particular professional perspective. But there isn't only one kind of professional who uses a computer. Some professionals have no need of most of those things and really only need ultra portability. Because what they do is use their computer in a wide, wide variety of settings for relatively basic professional tasks -- like accessing CRM systems and other corporate infrastructure, writing reports, and so on. That *is* professional usage. It isn't *graphics design* professional usage. But graphics design professional usage, for instance, is also not software developer professional usage. The most important thing to a software developer might be a huge hard drive to allow for several test environments (e.g. Win2k / XP / Vista environments + Panther and Tiger).

It all depends on usage. Not every notebook Apple makes needs to conform to your particular professional world.

[spicyapple]

When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:
Hello AidenShaw. :) :)

"Pro" means to me upgradeability. The fact we can upgrade the internal components to meet our particular pro trade is where the Pro designation is appropriate.

For instance, I have no need for 256MB video graphics even though I am in the media industry, but if one works with CAD and OpenGL apps, then it would be useful. All the other options you describe might not be required by business people who travel giving Keynote lectures. I think Apple machines appeal more to that pro crowd.

luv ya, xoxoxo

[fraggle]

Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area

It's overkill to include 3G stuff in a laptop as a standard. Make it an option.

Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)

In a case as slim as the MBP that is unlikely to happen.

Dell Latitude D620 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Smaller footprint: Yes. Smaller package: No.

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 61mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

Actually more like 6.1mm :)

[AidenShaw]

It all depends on usage. Not every notebook Apple makes needs to conform to your particular professional world.
Very true. I almost added a line like "if I spent more time in airports, 3 lbs might be the 'pro' feature that I want most".

So, in the context of the message that I replied to, I think we both agree that one can have a "pro" laptop without an optical drive.

[mkrishnan]

So, in the context of the message that I replied to, I think we both agree that one can have a "pro" laptop without an optical drive.

Yeah, I do tend to agree. :) Ahhh, well, hopefully at least some of us will be happy with the next Apple iteration. :)

[AidenShaw]

It's overkill to include 3G stuff in a laptop as a standard. Make it an option.
It is an option - but there is an internal socket and antennas builtin. You can get 3G without a dongle or PC/express card.

In a case as slim as the MBP that is unlikely to happen.
Then, IMO, the MBP sacrifices usefulness for style.


Smaller footprint: Yes. Smaller package: No.
Yes, but width and depth are sometimes more important than thickness.


Actually more like 6.1mm :)
D#mn sticky period key.... :o

[Corran Horn]

No seriously, I got $2800 in a bank account, ready to blow whenever I want, and since my MacBook has discoloration and whining, I'm gonna get it replaced as soon as I can be without a Mac for a few weeks. I might pay the difference up to a MacBook Pro, or something like that.:D


How about donating to a poor college student's mac fund :) jk.

I think a 12" would be cool, and I could see me using it, however I need the screen area offered by the 15" or 17" for website design/video editing.

[rstorm]

I have used my 12" for over 4 years and love it but....I want more speed. If this rumor is true the MBP 12" would be great. Hopefully it will not be slimmed down in features vs the 15 & 17. I will be ordering a new MBP in January so hopefully the 12" will be released then...if not I will go with the 15".

[benh]

I'm still using a 12" PB 1.5Ghz, upgraded to that from a 867mhz 12". I don't want anything significantly bigger than this machine.

The 15" MacBook Pros are way too big for me to carry around. The 13" MacBooks are close to being too big, but they'll do, size wise.

The PowerBook is my daily use machine, at home and at work. At work, it does just fine for a variety of network engineering tasks, but it sure would be nice to be able to run Parallels so I can have additional test environments under FreeBSD. Be nice to be able to run Visio under Windows as well. Virtual PC isn't a practical option for either of these due to performance.

At home, I'd sure like to be able to run Aperture and not have it be painfully slow.

I use my optical drive quite a bit at home and at work, so I wouldn't want to lose that, though having a swappable bay I can use for optical, extra HD or extra battery would be quite nice.

The only thing keeping me from getting a MacBook is the poor performance of Aperture with the integrated graphics. The only thing keeping me from getting a MacBook Pro is the size.

I don't care about cost. I don't want two machines. I'm willing to pay a premium for a powerful, small Apple laptop. I just wish one existed.

[janstett]

I don't really hate GMA, I just don't know enough about it.

I am philosophically opposed to shared memory, but it isn't completely awful. Sure you wouldn't want to play games with it, but the GMA 950 in my X60 supports Vista Aero/Glass, for example. So it's not a complete gimp.

[BRLawyer]

When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:


Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)

My Dell Latitude D620 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.

4 - Discrete GPU is also standard for any pro notebook, but 256 Mb are debatable...for most users, 128Mb discrete is enough.

5 - Notebooks are not meant for CPU upgrades, although this might be useful for hobbyists.

6 - Strong cases, but hopefully not as bad-looking as those from Dell or pretty much any Windows notebook out there...Apple is still unsurpassed in design of notebooks. And yep, a thin notebook is much more important than most features above noted...it's not easy to overlook that when you carry your stuff around in a bag or suitcase...

[Crike .40]

a 12" MBP will get Apple 1800 of my student priced dollars the day it releases. I am under the impression that owners who held on to 12" PB's have for the most part been holding out for that "same" machine with today's tech.

No, I know that the 12" PB was NOT a true powerbook by the standards set forth by the 15 and 17. However, the improved keyboard, gfx, higher ram capacity (in the earlier models), HD, and proc speed made it an easy upsell for must of us from the ibook.

A 12" MBP may be an irrational choice over a 13" MB given the very small differences that the products represent, but in a lot of cases those small differences are exactly the reason people will go with the better machine.

I'm holding onto my PB until a true 12" gfx enable MBP is here.
(Optical drive or not, I hardly care)

[XForge]

1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

That's funny; HP, Lenovo and Dell all seem to think docking stations for their machines are a pretty cool idea. Every single laptop user in my corporation has a docking station on his desk. And right now Mac docking stations are a fricking joke.

[adroit]

I don't really need the optical drive or a big screen. A USB optical drive and an extra screen at home would do the job just fine for me. But Apple, please make it thin and light, and put a "real" graphic card in this thing!

[BanjoBanker]

I recently bought a Black MacBook to replace my beloved 12" PB. The 867 processor just wasn't cutting it for the work flow anymore. The feature set of the MacBook Pro was enticing, but I don't want a 15" form factor. The macBook won't fit into my Brenthaven Fusion 12, so I will have to buy a new bag, but other than that, I am quite happy with my MacBook. The Core 2 Duo processor really rocks with 2 gig of RAM. However, I would love to have a MacBook Pro in a 12", widescreen or not. I would orphan my MacBook in a flash if Apple intoduces one at Mac World. I am going to be in the Bay Area during Mac World and I am wrangling for a keynote ticket, but I might hang out at the Apple store instead and buy the 12" MBP if it introduced then.
Oh, for those commenting on docking stations, get a life. Docking stations are for desktop replacement portables, not true laptops. Use a laptop on the road, not as a CPU for your office. I use an external monitor and a wireless mouse, so a docking station would be a waste as well as a nuisance to deal with. If that is your main criteria, get a Dell.:)

[lmalave]

Apple is afraid to put a discrete graphics card in a Macbook. I don't really expect an optical drive in a 12" MBP while keeping the thickness at 1" or thinner with a discrete graphics card. I do expect some sort of dock that contains a dual-layer DVD burner like the Toshiba Libretto U105.

Here are my predictions:

Laptop:
12.1" widescreen
100GB 2.5" hard drive (upgradable to 200GB)
Core 2 Duo 1.66GHz to 2.33GHz Intel processor
1GB SO-DIMM memory upgradable to 4GB
ATI Radeon X1400 graphics
Expresscard slot
0.95 inch thick
iSight cam
Magsafe power
4 pounds
5 hour battery life

Dock:
6X Dual-Layer DVD burner
0.3 - 0.5 inch thick
DVI out

If it's already 0.95" thick, then that is plenty of room to put in an optical drive. Even my cheap lil' MacBook is only 1" thick.

[BRLawyer]

That's funny; HP, Lenovo and Dell all seem to think docking stations for their machines are a pretty cool idea. Every single laptop user in my corporation has a docking station on his desk. And right now Mac docking stations are a fricking joke.

Well, if Apple were to base itself on HP, Lenovo or Dell's "coolness" factor, it would be bankrupt by now...most people don't use docks, and never did, especially in companies.

Due to their normal lack of features (or excess thereof), Windows notebooks might draw some little usefulness from docking stations...Macs don't need them.

[lmalave]

2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.

4 - Discrete GPU is also standard for any pro notebook, but 256 Mb are debatable...for most users, 128Mb discrete is enough.


2 - How can providing a modular bay be a negative? I definitely think all MBPs should ship with an optical drive, but allowing a user to swap it out (or just to remove it for lighter weight) would definitely be neat. A better reason to rule this out is because it would represent more moving parts that can break. If you notice, Macs have been *simplifying* their design, and I think besides aesthetics, another advantage is fewer things to break.

3 - HUH???? :confused: I just don't think it even makes sense to say that 3G is not needed if you already have Wi-Fi. There is NO national Wi-Fi network that has anywhere near the coverage of what 3G will be soon. I myself am a T-Mobile Wi-Fi customer, but that's basically only availalbe at Starbucks and Kinko's. 3G, on the other hand, will have eventually complete coverage in all metro areas. There is just no comparison. But I don't expect Apple to have 3G modems built into Macs quite yet, though. If anything, that functionality can be added through the Express/34 slot.

4 - MBPs are supposed to be PRO machines. Why shouldn't they have 256 MB of video memory if that is available? The 2.33 15" MBP and the 17" MBP both have 256 MB. The only reason the 2.16 MHz model doesn't is pure marketing. There is just not a big enough difference between the 2.16 and 2.33 models since they both have 120 GB hard drives, so the only differentiators are: miniscule CPU bump, 1 GB more RAM, and yes, the extra 128 MB of VRAM.

[AidenShaw]

1...
2...
3...
4...
5...
6...

I must be on the right track, if Mr. Lawyer enumerates my posts and rebuts them one-by-one ! :D

[Josias]

How about donating to a poor college student's mac fund :) jk.

I think a 12" would be cool, and I could see me using it, however I need the screen area offered by the 15" or 17" for website design/video editing.

Well, I'd love to, but I can't find my bankbook right now. How's 2026 sound?:D

Meh, I think I'm going for a 15" instead. That way I won't need the 20" ACD, and I can instead get an AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n to support my MBP. (My MB gets very low reception in my room from our D-link router:D )

I actually though a about a 8-core Mac Pro. Seriously, think:
$1400 (MacBook refund, if I can get it)
$2800 (Bank account)
=$4200

Mac Pro:
Dual Quad 2.33 GHz Clovertown (8 cores, 2x8 MB L2 cache, 2x1336 MHz FSB)
6 GB RAM
750 GB HDD
Ati Radeon X1950XTX
AirPort Extreme 2 + Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
20" Cinema Display with built-in iSight (1920x1200)
Two Superdrives
Wireless KB and Mighty Mouse
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard
Around $4000 :D

That would leave me only to get some speakerd, which I might refrain from, as I have my wireless Sennheiser HDR 110 headphones.:p

Or a MacBook Pro for around $2300...:D

[emotion]

Re: 3G/HSDPA etc support in portable devices like laptops. Don't forget Nokia and Intel signed a deal for just this recently.

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=301E11C3-9B68-4C8F-9A75-0B37D6192B84

Edit: the last paragraph might get Europeans all smug. :) (This also weakens any Apple moves in that drection too).

[lmalave]

When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:


Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)

My Dell Latitude D620 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).


- I think that Apple doesn't provide a docking connector or swappable drive bay for the same philosophical reason: they want a MBP to be self-contained and stand on its own, without a need for external devices for everyday use. At work I have a docking connector for my Thinkpad, but the ONLY thing it's really providing is my ethernet connection, and I could just as easily plug in the ethernet cable directly into the side of my Thinkpad. Personally, I don't WANT to switch the keyboard, mouse, and display that I'm using. I like the Thinkpads' and that's what I use. If I was using an MBP for work, I would have the same preference.

- Kudos to Dell for providing 3G connectivity as a BTO option already, but in the MBP world this functionality can be added through the Express/34 slot.

- 256 MB of VRAM *is* available on the MBPs, at least in the 2.33 GHz 15" and the 17" versions. Unfortunately, the "base" 15" MBP only has 128MB to increase the difference between the two 15" models. Stupid apple marketing tricks.

- Sorry, but socketable CPUs is not a "Pro" option, just a "you" option ;) The vast majority of "Pro" users don't consider the CPU upgradability of desktops, much less laptops.

- I would say the MBP cases are rather durable themselves, but the point is you're rather offbase in trying to argue that the Dell has superior engineering for durability/reliability than the MBP. Let me just list some features that are much more important:
* accelerometer to shut off hard drive in case of fall or rapid acceleration. I looked the Dell site and didn't see this for the Dells
* MagSafe adapter, which reduces the likelihood of an accident with the laptop, or of damaging the power socket itself (which would then only be fixed by replacing the motherboard
* in general fewer breakable parts (e.g. magnetic latch)
Let me put it this way: I still see a lot of Titanium PBs and almost never see ancient Dells from that same time period. And if anything the "durability" gap between Apple and Dell has only increased.

And finally, the Dell is smaller and lighter but only because it's 14" instead of 15.4". If you look at the 15.4" Latitude D820, it would be about 6.5 lbs., or almost a pound heavier than the 5.6 lb. MBP. Apple made the *strategic* decision that since "Pro" users of Macs tend to be more graphically oriented, that it's sweet spot was actually at the 15.4" level. And Apple *will* provide a smaller MBP, but it would be at 13" or smaller since 14" would be too close to the 15" models.

[BRLawyer]

I must be on the right track, if Mr. Lawyer enumerates my posts and rebuts them one-by-one ! :D

Surely, it's always easier to number them anyway...although you, as usual, haven't replied to any...docking station? Plllllllllease...

[YS2003]

I hope Apple will launch a 12" model in the pro line, as I believe there is a market for that ultra-portable laptop. If Dell can make a light weight and small X200, I am sure Apple can make it much slicker looking ultra-portable. With the proper docking options and adequate connectivity (Firewire, USB, PC card/Express card, DVI port), the ultra portable is very usable. It's not going to be a power house as it won't be the full feature notebook like MBP.
If Apple dishes out a ultraportable Mac, I would be very interested in purchasing one (but, I would wait for the rev B:) )

[rstorm]

3 - WiFi is already standard, and EVDO/3G are close to nonexistent or not really needed in 99% of the Western world.



EVDO/3G is a real need for many users including me. WIFI is not available in many locations that would be accessable with EVDO/3G. Maybe you do not need them in Switzerland but they are needed in the USA.

[b0ned0me]

- I think that Apple doesn't provide a docking connector or swappable drive bay for the same philosophical reason: they want a MBP to be self-contained and stand on its own, without a need for external devices for everyday use. At work I have a docking connector for my Thinkpad, but the ONLY thing it's really providing is my ethernet connection, and I could just as easily plug in the ethernet cable directly into the side of my Thinkpad.
Odd. Nearly everyone I know prefers to have their 19 inch or larger monitor, full-size keyboard, full-function mouse, power and network all ready and waiting for them via the port replicator - just carry a second power supply in the bag if you need one while travelling. This goes up to something like 99% when talking about small laptops like the x60s. Certainly for something in the 12 inch range a larger display for office use would be pretty much mandatory, and plugging and unplugging that all the time would get old, fast.

[AidenShaw]

...although you, as usual, haven't replied to any...
There's not much point - I stated what was important for *me* in *my* professional laptop. You can't tell me that what I said is not my opinion. An argument is not simply contradiction. (http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm)

...docking station? Plllllllllease...
They've come a long way since Apple's antique "Duo" - you really should see how convenient they are, and how much wear and tear on the laptop they prevent.

I order laptops for my department, and almost every order gets two docking stations (home and work) and three power adapters. (One for each station, and one for mobile use.)

Several other posters here have voiced support for port replicators and docking stations. I'm not alone....

[FFTT]

After using both my daughter's 12" iBook and 13" WS MacBook

I really liked the 13" WS display, but much prefer the portability
of the 12" model.

My main wish is that Apple would release a " full featured " 12" or 13"
model without crippling the poor thing as they tend to do.

[charkshark]

When I look for "pro" features in a laptop, my list has:


Docking station - so that taking the laptop from my home office to the work office is one-click detach, one-click attach (how "pro" is a mess of various cables for monitor, power, GbE, Kbd/Mouse, USB, ...)
Removeable drive bay - so that I can have a second full-capacity battery, an optical drive, or a second 160 GB disk drive, depending on the task (and 90% of the time the second battery is in there - for 7-8 hours of real-life runtime ;) )
Builtin a/b/g WiFi and 3G (EVDO/HSDPA) - for networking in the office, in the train, just about anywhere in a populated area
Discrete graphics with 256 MiB plus of usable graphics memory
Socketed CPU for easy upgrades (I've gone from Yonah to a Merom running 64-bit Vista)
A case that strong enough to take a few bumps without denting and bending (magnesium-alloy, in my case)

My Dell Latitude D620 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d620?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) has all that and more - in a package that is half a pounder lighter with a smaller footprint than an MBP 15".

Somehow, all these features are much more important than whether the MBP is ¼" thinner than the Dell (that's about 6.1mm, for those of you who don't live in the colonies).

What!!!! ALMOST EXACTLY what I was thinking, minus the docking station. Things like 256 MB discreet graphics you just can't take for granted. I'm living off my integrated graphics macbook.

[OutThere]

Docking stations are the most annoying pieces of poop ever. They never seem to work right and the look like ass.

As for a 12" ultraportable....ugggggggggggggggg. I would start drooling instantly at the announcement.

I've been worrying off and on about how I'm going to replace my 12" powerbook (still going strong) when the time comes. I could never use a larger laptop, and I like the metal case so much more than my old iBook or the MacBooks I've played with. The screen size doesn't bother me. I have a 20" monitor that I hook into (yay clamshell mode) when I'm at my desk. No problem there.

I take my 12" everywhere with me. There's no question of "oh, should I bring my laptop? It's a pain to carry it around", I just pop it in my backpack and go. It comes to class, the library, around my dorm, to the student union, etc. My whole college campus is wireless, so it's super easy to grab 'n go.

Ooh man, now I'm excited for a speedy, intel 12", with a metal case and dedicated graphics. *drool*

[PodHead]

Originally Posted by lmalave View Post
T

I disagree with you about 12" being too narrow, though. I used to have a 12" MacBook and it never seemed too narrow for me. And that was at 1024x768 resolution. I expect the 12" MBP will be fairly pixel-dense at 1280x800.


I think you mean you used to have a 12" Powerbook. I might be wrong, but I thought it was 4:3?
I'm not sure if narrow is the right word for it, but what I mean is the height of the screen. 12" in 4:3 is just fine, but in wide screen format it might get quite low. 13" is still usable, although you need to scroll up and down quite a bit already. I know the difference is not actually that much, but I hope the screen size will be usable.

That took longer than I thought for someone to pick up on. With all the sharks on these forums, I had my money on two post max.

[Aniej]

Docking stations are the most annoying pieces of poop ever. They never seem to work right and they look like ass.

As for a 15" ultraportable....ugggggggggggggggg. I would start drooling instantly at the announcement.

With the slight modification from 12'' to 15'' i couldn't agree more with this post.

[iW00t]

er... may I disagree?

Why would Apple want to encourage the purchase of physical DVDs when you will soon (knock on wood) be able to d/l a plethora of movie content on the iTS? A movie player, maybe... but it'd probably be a video iPod.

-Clive

Because iTMS exists solely to support their hardware purchases. And the number of support calls from the mummies who bought this computer about "how to import CDs into iTunes" will be not worth it.

You seem to be of the opinion that pushing your own belief that optical drives are NOT required will actually influence in some way Apple's ultimate hardware design. Well I got news for you, Apple does not care about your opinion, that's for sure. So yes, you choose to disagree, that is your choice. Don't push your opinion any further that it is meant to go. Thank you.

[iW00t]

6 - Strong cases, but hopefully not as bad-looking as those from Dell or pretty much any Windows notebook out there...Apple is still unsurpassed in design of notebooks. And yep, a thin notebook is much more important than most features above noted...it's not easy to overlook that when you carry your stuff around in a bag or suitcase...

I beg to differ on this one. SIZE is more critical than thickness. Try traveling through a crowd with a 1" thick laptop that is in a bag the size of an A3 sheet of paper for one.

[iW00t]

most people don't use docks, and never did, especially in companies.

So in your world people are all self employed in little illegal unregistered businesses? Because otherwise they would constitute a "company". I certainly can see the utility of a dock, nevermind Apple's idea of kool.

[janstett]

1 - Sorry, but no. The PowerBook Duo is dead long ago, and not really missed by many...the idea of a docking station presumes leaving features for a desktop, and that is not the idea of a pro notebook. You need power AND mobility, and not to waive on features for the sake of a purported "cleanliness". A pro notebook has it all, and doesn't any other cables apart from, perhaps, a mouse.

I have to disagree vehemently, and this is one of my biggest complaints about Apple's notebooks.

I have been using my MacBook Pro at home and at work as my main machine for about 6 months. When I get to work, I plug in the power, the mouse, and the ethernet. When I go home, I unplug it. Every frigging day. There are also a pair of external hard drives and a monitor that I'd LIKE to attach, but they stay on my Dell -- which has a docking station.

A new colleague in my group just started and he also has a Macbook Pro that he insists on attaching to an external flat panel, so he's in just as bad shape as I am. It's clutterred, unprofessional, and inconvenient to attach/detach, not to mention the wear and tear on the connectors. Apple is remiss to leave out a docking architecture.


2 - Yes, but only for those notebooks that have dismal battery life, like most Dells. Instead, an optical drive must STILL be standard, as most internal HDs more than cover the needs of people.

And once again I have to disagree. I have had two Thinpad X series ultraportables, which feature a MODULAR bay architecture that lets me have whatever I want -- an optical drive, a 2nd hard drive, or a 2nd battery. When I go full battery (8 cell internal + 2nd battery) I am good for 8-10 hours of use on a single charge -- all day computing. Match that!

5 - Notebooks are not meant for CPU upgrades, although this might be useful for hobbyists.

Remember that the next time you shell out $3k on a laptop that lasts for 18 months before it's obsoletel.

[janstett]

Well, if Apple were to base itself on HP, Lenovo or Dell's "coolness" factor, it would be bankrupt by now...most people don't use docks, and never did, especially in companies.

Due to their normal lack of features (or excess thereof), Windows notebooks might draw some little usefulness from docking stations...Macs don't need them.

You must never move your Mac and actually use it in more than one place. I also want to know what companies you are visiting that don't use docks. Your opinions run completely 100&#37; to the opposite of my experiences in 15 years of working. I work for a large semiconductor manufacturer and every single notebook given to every single employee has a docking station. Everywhere I have been, this is the case. Even in the startups I've worked at, road warrior executives insist on having a docking station. That might be one reason none of them used Macs.

[GekkePrutser]

Surely, it's always easier to number them anyway...although you, as usual, haven't replied to any...docking station? Plllllllllease...

I agree that a docking station would not be so handy for the 15"/17" MBP's, but for a 12" it would be perfect.

A 12" will be perfect as a little lightweight laptop for on the road, but once you get to the office, it would be handy to plug it in and get a nice big display for doing all the stuff that's too hard to do on the road. Like editing photo's (precision mouse work!), working on big spreadsheets, etc.

With a big display you will need a separate keyboard and mouse, so you'll have the following to plug in (numbered then as you seem to prefer this :) )

1. Power
2. Display cable
3. Keyboard
4. Mouse
5. Network (ok optional, but most companies prefer to limit wireless use to meeting rooms due to security and bandwidth concerns).

That is still an awful hassle. I'm glad I have the docking station for the Thinkpad T42 from work, because I also have an external USB headset for my softphone, and speakers connected. Now I can just plonk it in the docking station. It even has an on/off button so I can keep the screen closed while using it and can still turn it on. For my mac I would also want an external drive connected while in the office once leopard comes out, so I can use the excellent time machine feature.

I think a docking station for a 12" would be great in the pro market. It would be just too small to be used in an office.

I did agree with your other points by the way.

Edit: Oops, there have been others pointing this out as well, I should have read on before posting :)

[BRLawyer]

I have been using my MacBook Pro at home and at work as my main machine for about 6 months. When I get to work, I plug in the power, the mouse, and the ethernet. When I go home, I unplug it. Every frigging day. There are also a pair of external hard drives and a monitor that I'd LIKE to attach, but they stay on my Dell -- which has a docking station.

Well, that's your opinion (as is Aiden's); the parts you have to plug are pretty much basic parts that everyone else plugs...power and internet, and mouse for those that prefer it...it's not much, if you compare to the ugly and undesirable footprint of an extra docking station...no, thanks...and don't forget...slow sales were among the main factors behind the phasing-out of the Duos, notwithstanding their GREAT implementation, as is usual for Apple.

And once again I have to disagree. I have had two Thinpad X series ultraportables, which feature a MODULAR bay architecture that lets me have whatever I want -- an optical drive, a 2nd hard drive, or a 2nd battery. When I go full battery (8 cell internal + 2nd battery) I am good for 8-10 hours of use on a single charge -- all day computing. Match that!

I still don't see the use for that, because the main thing here is the optical drive. Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs (not even desktops have that, normally)...and if you really need that extra space, just plug some flash drive...case closed.

Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag. I need full functionality, not replaceable volumes in my jacket.

Remember that the next time you shell out $3k on a laptop that lasts for 18 months before it's obsoletel.

Sorry, but that's progress. You should base your purchase on your CURRENT and FUTURE needs, in accordance with your plans TODAY. Obsolescence does not exist on the grounds of the latest and greatest, but on your own use of a computer. I've paid CHF 2500 for my damn awesome iMac G5 2.0, and it lets me do ANYTHING I want as a moderate/normal user...it's been here for 2 years, its processor cannot be swapped and I am happy...as are 99&#37; of Apple customers out there...you guys must see beyond the "MR community needs" and check whether there is a REAL mass demand for that...I don't think so.

You must never move your Mac and actually use it in more than one place. I also want to know what companies you are visiting that don't use docks. Your opinions run completely 100% to the opposite of my experiences in 15 years of working. I work for a large semiconductor manufacturer and every single notebook given to every single employee has a docking station. Everywhere I have been, this is the case. Even in the startups I've worked at, road warrior executives insist on having a docking station. That might be one reason none of them used Macs.

Let me just say that every company/org. for which I have worked so far had NO docks whatsoever...perhaps this is different for "techie" companies; but as a lawyer who has worked for an investment bank, a power company, a telecom company, a NGO and an international organization, I've never seen any mass-usage of docks.

So in your world people are all self employed in little illegal unregistered businesses? Because otherwise they would constitute a "company". I certainly can see the utility of a dock, nevermind Apple's idea of kool.

I didn't really understand your statement, but anyway...as Mr. Shaw said above, I also must be on the "right track"...after all, I've got more than 3 replies defending ugly and bulky docks in this forum...perhaps we should roll back the Duos...they had a neat mechanism, at least...:rolleyes:

[Familytunes]

Let this dream become reality! I sold my 12" PB 4 months ago because the screen had become quite dark and yellow after 3 years of heavy use. The MacBook I bought then isn't bad really, but it's simply not the perfect portable. I carried my PB everywhere, I don't do the same with the MacBook. I mean it's got the same size like my girl friend's 15" PB.
Please, it want my 12" back - with intel inside!

[iW00t]

Anyway do the ULVs come at the same speed as the current C2D chips we see in the MBP?

[cherfizzle]

this would be absoluetely amazing, except the 1700 price tag, 12 inch should be a macbook price range

[AidenShaw]

This discussion has a number of the short-sighted "I don't want it, therefore Apple shouldn't offer it" arguments.

What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!

...if you compare to the ugly and undesirable footprint of an extra docking station...no, thanks...:
Where's the spirit of innovation here? What if Apple's docking station were a Mini-mac-sized (or even smaller) port replicator that connected to the laptop with a fibre? Or even used the GbE port (auto-sensing whether a network or the dock was connected)? Or a small lump that mounted on the ACD?

Surely the Archangel Ives could think outside the dock! :rolleyes:


...Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs...
This is nonsense - how many pros are forced to carry an external USB or 1394 drive?

...Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag.:
If the main battery is 6 hour, there will be times when you need 8. If it's 12 hour, there will be times when you need 16.

With a bay battery, you can swap without pausing or sleeping....

...You should base your purchase on your CURRENT and FUTURE needs, in accordance with your plans TODAY.:
That's exactly what I did when I purchased a Yonah machine last winter. And this fall, I turned it into a Merom running a 64-bit OS.

It met my CURRENT needs then, and my FUTURE needs.
________________

These arguments are basically saying "if Apple doesn't offer it, it's bad and you shouldn't want it".

Sometimes the fanbois are the most entrenched neo-Luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-luddism) around.

[balamw]

What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!

I haven't read much of the thread recently, but I just came across this http://www.belkin.com/highspeeddock/ in a Xmas Dell catalog, and it seems like a good fit for a "dockable" Mac IMHO, as longs as it has ExpressCard. Too bad Belkin doesn't provide Mac drivers for it...

B

[emotion]

Anyway do the ULVs come at the same speed as the current C2D chips we see in the MBP?

No they don't. The ULV is up to something like 1.2GHz. The L7400 a low, rather than ultra-low, voltage chip will be released in January. That's 1.5GHz. It sports a full 4MB cache though.

I think any super small apple notebook is likely to be equipped with a low voltage chip. This is why I picked up my macbook and stopped waiting.

I think this rumour is unlikely to happen btw. I think Apple will wait for the 1.6GHz chips and santa rosa with robson (all due end of H1 2007) before getting this kind of machine out. We'll see.

[janstett]

I still don't see the use for that, because the main thing here is the optical drive. Portables are NOT meant to have 2 HDs (not even desktops have that, normally)...and if you really need that extra space, just plug some flash drive...case closed.

I use it not just for extra storage, but I use it as a swappable drive bay, so I can run XP, Vista, and Fedora Core 6 on a single notebook. I could do OSX86 if I feel so inclined, to create the first sub-3 pound Macbook ;)


Extra batteries follow the same principle...if you have one that works well, no need for another swappable part in your bag. I need full functionality, not replaceable volumes in my jacket.


Are you saying there is such a thing as too much battery? No such thing. The vast majority of the time I'm on two battery config, no extra parts in my jacket as I don't normally need to install CDs or boot my secondary operating systems.

Of the three UltraBay devices I have (2nd battery, 2nd hard drive, optical drive) I use the optical drive the least. Thank you IBM for giving me the choice.

[princealfie]

We need a multibay apple laptop considering that we hadn't had one since the Pismo :)

[jaysmith]

this may have been said already, but could they use a large 18" drive? or are the speedss not high enough? and mybe a large flash drive as an isolated boot disk. and i'd love a docking station if it looked good, and of course it would if they do include it. maybe a height adustable one, with a sort of icurve built in.

[BRLawyer]

This discussion has a number of the short-sighted "I don't want it, therefore Apple shouldn't offer it" arguments.

What's wrong with offering a docking station - you don't have to buy it if you don't want it! What's wrong with the ability to carry a spare battery - you don't have to!

If the main battery is 6 hour, there will be times when you need 8. If it's 12 hour, there will be times when you need 16.

That's exactly what I did when I purchased a Yonah machine last winter. And this fall, I turned it into a Merom running a 64-bit OS.

These arguments are basically saying "if Apple doesn't offer it, it's bad and you shouldn't want it".

Sometimes the fanbois are the most entrenched neo-Luddites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-luddism) around.

Well, Mr. Shaw, thanks as usual for your compliments...I am a "fanboi" indeed (although I still don't understand why the Internet community likes so much to destroy normal language...fanboi = fanboy / pwned = owned)...:rolleyes:

The problem with most ideas written here is that people think Apple is a monstrous factory of all gadgets...it's not, and it shouldn't be...Apple has much bigger fish to fry, instead of amusing us at MR with all our crazy wishes.

1 - If 3rd party companies can offer a dock, go ahead and buy it. Most don't need a docking station, and never will...and Apple sells to such public as it deems fit, not to a handful of hardcore customers.

2 - Your argument on batteries just proves my point...people are never satisfied, be it battery life or HD size...that's why a second battery is a fallacy, even if you get 1 extra hour of life for your notebook.

3 - My point on swapping chips is that, as exhaustively said before, there will ALWAYS be something better and faster around the corner. Does this make your machine obsolete? Surely not...because sensible people plan their purchases on their present and, as much as possible, future needs...I am not talking about future-proof, I am talking about personal and future personal needs.

And please, let's be honest...do you really think Apple is one of those companies fostering chip-swapping in notebooks? This is a matter for soldering iron fanatics, not normal users...and the difference between Yonah and Merom is a big YAWN in real terms for normal people, if I may say...:rolleyes:

It's not that Apple doesn't do it...it's more like "Apple cannot do everything you want"...otherwise it would be bankrupt, just as in the late 90s, with a thousand models and projects at the same time.

[lmalave]

this would be absoluetely amazing, except the 1700 price tag, 12 inch should be a macbook price range

Ummm...why?????? Most customers are willing to pay a PREMIUM for smallness. Go to a Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. Observe how in general 15.4" laptops are selling for around $1000 whereas 12" or smaller laptops are selling for around $2000.

I actually expect the 12" MBP to sell for $1800. That would actually put it at about $400-$500 *less* than its competition from Sony, etc.

[AidenShaw]

1 - ... Most don't need a docking station, and never will...
So, if Apple came out with a gadget:

About the width of a MiniMac, but 1/3 the height and 1/3 the depth
that had a magsafe plug to connect to the laptop
that said magsafe plug had a pair of small optical fibres or a pair of 3 Gbps serial connections
next, that said magsafe receptacle became a standard feature in the next rev of every laptop
furthermore, that said optical or serial connections carried the DVI signals, USB, network, 1394, audio, etc to the dock
and finally, your honor, that said dock could be attached to the back of the ACD, completely out of sight


what would your response be?

Would you still want to connect and disconnect half a dozen cables or so whenever you moved the laptop?

ps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boi_&#37;28gender%29

[mkrishnan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boi_%28gender%29

Yeah, Boi!!!!! :)

Okay, I have nothing further to contribute to this thread. Get 'er done.

[AidenShaw]

And please, let's be honest...do you really think Apple is one of those companies fostering chip-swapping in notebooks? This is a matter for soldering iron fanatics, not normal users...
In addition to upgrades, socketed CPUs reduce the number of motherboards that repair centers need to stock.

When I've had to have a motherboard replace on most laptops, the tech comes out with a standard motherboard, and transfers the CPU to the new mobo.

Knocking several hundred dollars off the price of a mobo replacement isn't a bad thing.

...and the difference between Yonah and Merom is a big YAWN in real terms for normal people, if I may say...:rolleyes:
Unless you want to run 64-bit software - then the Merom is much, much faster.

We should reopen this talk after 10.5 comes out with good 64-bit support, and all those Yonahs aren't invited to the party.

[princealfie]

Could this finally be 1/2" thin then? :cool:

[lmalave]

Could this finally be 1/2" thin then? :cool:

I doubt it. I think it'll still be about 1". Maybe it will be something like 0.95" so that Apple can market it as the "thinnest Apple laptop ever".

[AutumnSkyline]

I think with they should combine the Macbook lines into a 12" 15" and 17" and make them fully expandable. There is no need for a distinction between pro and consumer when both lines are offering the same thing pretty much, just with slower chips on the macbooks, and different material obviously. So if they amalgamated both of them, the 12" could have a lower chip like a 1.83, that could be upgraded to a 2.33 ghz or whatever the speed of the C2D will be when they release the second merom wave. Also adding a nice iSight camera that swiveled around with be nice as well : )

[BRLawyer]

So, if Apple came out with a gadget:

About the width of a MiniMac, but 1/3 the height and 1/3 the depth
that had a magsafe plug to connect to the laptop
that said magsafe plug had a pair of small optical fibres or a pair of 3 Gbps serial connections
next, that said magsafe receptacle became a standard feature in the next rev of every laptop
furthermore, that said optical or serial connections carried the DVI signals, USB, network, 1394, audio, etc to the dock
and finally, your honor, that said dock could be attached to the back of the ACD, completely out of sight


what would your response be?

Would you still want to connect and disconnect half a dozen cables or so whenever you moved the laptop?

ps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boi_%28gender%29

Honestly, I don't know, especially because I have a great desktop at home...could be...as for the "fanboi" thing, the Wikipedia chapter says it all..."fanboy". :rolleyes:

[briansolomon]

Yes please!

[840quadra]

Honestly, I don't know, especially because I have a great desktop at home...could be...as for the "fanboi" thing, the Wikipedia chapter says it all..."fanboy". :rolleyes:

Just remember that the English language is like a liquid, it constantly changes form to fit the current container. Many words are added to the dictionary, and encyclopedia every year.

It is only a matter of time before this word is to! :(

[miniConvert]

I think with they should combine the Macbook lines into a 12" 15" and 17" and make them fully expandable. There is no need for a distinction between pro and consumer when both lines are offering the same thing pretty much, just with slower chips on the macbooks, and different material obviously. So if they amalgamated both of them, the 12" could have a lower chip like a 1.83, that could be upgraded to a 2.33 ghz or whatever the speed of the C2D will be when they release the second merom wave. Also adding a nice iSight camera that swiveled around with be nice as well : )
Then we'd be down from a choice of two different laptop designs to just one. That'd be bad :(

[koobcamuk]

What is with people wanting iSights that swivel around????? I hate the idea. Sounds crap.... WHY???

What's wrong with the current setup exactly? What do you need to capture in front of you?

Weird.

[riversky]

First off, Jobs himself said the 4:3 ratio screens are dead. All are wide screens now and going forward. A 12' widescreen would just not be productive. I think this is a bogus rumor and chalk it up to wishful thinking.

[phantomsd]

What is with people wanting iSights that swivel around????? I hate the idea. Sounds crap.... WHY???

What's wrong with the current setup exactly? What do you need to capture in front of you?

Weird.

First post! Anyways...

I agree. What IS up with ppl wanting swivel iSights??? NO appreciation for Apple design. I'm pretty sure they considered it and scratched it.

[Martin C]

The swivel iSight would look ugly to be frank with you.

[Chégringo]

i know i'm new around here and to apple and all but as much as i love this bonanza of new product models in so many different directions, i'm truly hoping more than anything apple gets a handle on their quality control. with all these new cool gadgets, they are sure to draw people in by the truckloads, but if their quality control isn't considerably checked better than the hiccups we've seen recently w/the older mbs/mbps than all these masses may go away from apple burned by the sometimes problematic stuff.

yeah this macworld will be a huge chance for apple to cash in plenty of new customers w/the iphone, newer ipods, this supposed 12" mpb, leopard, etc but they should be careful about trying to do too much too fast (such as mulling their entry into the gaming console market as rumor might have it).

but if they can pull all of this off or at least respond effectively and quickly to problems, then apple is going to hit the big time like none have seen so far. a newbie's 2 centavos.

[princealfie]

i know i'm new around here and to apple and all but as much as i love this bonanza of new product models in so many different directions, i'm truly hoping more than anything apple gets a handle on their quality control. with all these new cool gadgets, they are sure to draw people in by the truckloads, but if their quality control isn't considerably checked better than the hiccups we've seen recently w/the older mbs/mbps than all these masses may go away from apple burned by the sometimes problematic stuff.

yeah this macworld will be a huge chance for apple to cash in plenty of new customers w/the iphone, newer ipods, this supposed 12" mpb, leopard, etc but they should be careful about trying to do too much too fast (such as mulling their entry into the gaming console market as rumor might have it).

but if they can pull all of this off or at least respond effectively and quickly to problems, then apple is going to hit the big time like none have seen so far. a newbie's 2 centavos.


hit that jackpot, stevie!

[PodHead]

What is with people wanting iSights that swivel around????? I hate the idea. Sounds crap.... WHY???

What's wrong with the current setup exactly? What do you need to capture in front of you?

Weird.

Agreed..the point of the current setup is so you don't need that obstruction of a webcam sticking out. Point and shoots are for photography...not webcams.

[mpw]

First post! Anyways...

I agree. What IS up with ppl wanting swivel iSights??? NO appreciation for Apple design. I'm pretty sure they considered it and scratched it.
If you're tall and want to be typing as you talk to someone you can't get the screen at a comfortable angle to see it yourself to type without cutting the top of your head off.

Surely it'd be possible to mount the iSight so in could swivel yet still sit flush, kinda like the low voltage lights in kitchen cielings?

[janstett]

The problem with most ideas written here is that people think Apple is a monstrous factory of all gadgets...it's not, and it shouldn't be...Apple has much bigger fish to fry, instead of amusing us at MR with all our crazy wishes.


Here's where I'm going to have to pull the plug on your dreamworld, Neo, and welcome you to the real world. Your eyes will hurt, that's because you haven't used them before. I have been behind the curtains of the consumer electronics industry.

In the dream world, Apple makes Apple hardware, Toshiba makes Toshiba hardware, Sony makes Sony hardware, IBM/Lenovo makes IBM/Lenovo hardware. In the real world, everybody, and I mean everybody, farms out the manufacture, and to varying degrees the design, of their wares, these days mostly to Chinese companies like Amoi and FoxConn. Did you wonder why your iPod and Macintosh were shipped directly from Shen Zen? There are only a few manufacturers of motherboards, a few manufacturers of displays, a few manufacturers of drives, et al. Making a computer these days means selecting components, making requirements, and creating a design (and sometimes even that is farmed off), then negotiating costs based on volume. Why do you think Apple switched to Intel?

I've worked on devices carrying the brand names of Gateway, GoVideo, Netgear, and Philips -- going through my company, and manufactured by Chinese companies like the ones I listed.

Does the name PortalPlayer ring a bell? It should -- they did the iPod.

The reality is that the same company that manufactures MacBooks also makes Dells and Gateways. The reality is that Apple can choose to do things like a modular bay with off the shelf components, if it wanted to.

And YES, I will be buying the Belkin dock when it comes out.

[BRLawyer]

The reality is that the same company that manufactures MacBooks also makes Dells and Gateways. The reality is that Apple can choose to do things like a modular bay with off the shelf components, if it wanted to.

And YES, I will be buying the Belkin dock when it comes out.

And what is the novelty in that? This is pretty obvious, and has been obvious for Apple since those dark 90s...the fact that you outsource manufacturing doesn't mean you can just order everything you want and look nice in your budget...otherwise we would still be deciding between a Performa 475 and a Quadra 605...in terms of product lines, Apple has stretched itself a lot already; and I am sure that a dock can be made by a 3rd party, not Apple...just like the 1000 iPod accessories out there.

[whawhat]

The swivel iSight would look ugly to be frank with you.

i agree. sony had one that swiveled and it wasn't very useful. at the end of the day, if apple came out with a 12" widescreen macbook pro, it would sell incredibly well. there are a lot of loyal 12" powerbook customers out there. i, for one, would sell my black macbook in a sec. if this does happen.

[iW00t]

I didn't really understand your statement, but anyway...as Mr. Shaw said above, I also must be on the "right track"...after all, I've got more than 3 replies defending ugly and bulky docks in this forum...perhaps we should roll back the Duos...they had a neat mechanism, at least...:rolleyes:

I certainly hope you are not a lawyer... hang on a sec... it is right there in your username.

So we prefer the flexibility of docks, you know, having the ability to have a small and light with no optical while on the move, and the ability to turns our machine into a workstation at home and in the office with one connection, and by virtue of that you figured that we want the Powerbook Duo. Together with its ancient processor and craptacular design.

Very good argument. I certainly hope you make more of such arguments in court.

Anyhow stick to your own opinions, nobody who matters (ie: the ones ultimately doing the design, or the other dock users) care.

[iW00t]

And what is the novelty in that? This is pretty obvious, and has been obvious for Apple since those dark 90s...the fact that you outsource manufacturing doesn't mean you can just order everything you want and look nice in your budget...otherwise we would still be deciding between a Performa 475 and a Quadra 605...in terms of product lines, Apple has stretched itself a lot already; and I am sure that a dock can be made by a 3rd party, not Apple...just like the 1000 iPod accessories out there.

I would be very surprised indeed if the same manufacturers could have produced all those 1000s of iPod accessories if iPods do not have a dock connector.

[lmalave]

So we prefer the flexibility of docks, you know, having the ability to have a small and light with no optical while on the move, and the ability to turns our machine into a workstation at home and in the office with one connection, and by virtue of that you figured that we want the Powerbook Duo. Together with its ancient processor and craptacular design.

I've actually warmed up to the idea of the MBPs having a dock connector. They are pro machines, after all, and it would be one more differenentiator between the MB and MBP.

However I still disagree with the dock having an optical drive. I'd prefer something more like my work computer: a Thinkpad T42 with dock. All the IBM dock provides is a bunch of ports - no optical drive or anything.

I would definitely prefer to still have an optical drive on the 12" MBP. I think Apple is capable of producing one at 3.5 to 4 lbs., and that's plenty light.

[WilliamLondon]

Anyone else not give a toss about the optical drive? I mean, I can go weeks on my iBook without using an optical drive, and even then it's my fast firewire LaCie DVD burner.

Make it small, make it light, and ditch the optical drive. Apple/third party can always make an ultraslim DVD drive for those who really need one on the go.

Amen!

I've got two laptops (work and home) and I can't remember the last time I popped a CD or DVD into either. And with increasing wireless connection speeds, what's the purpose? If you really need one, how about a port replicator or just an external drive that sits at home or work?

[WilliamLondon]

First off, Jobs himself said the 4:3 ratio screens are dead. All are wide screens now and going forward. A 12' widescreen would just not be productive. I think this is a bogus rumor and chalk it up to wishful thinking.

What do you want to do on your laptop? Remember it's a *portable* device which can hook up to larger monitors at a desk in the home or office *when* (because you do) you really need that bigger screen.

For me I want lightweight (number one priority) and as long as it has a full sized keyboard and (decent battery life<smile>), surfing the net or word processing or emails can be done easily with a smaller screen (and please, make it a widescreen).

[WilliamLondon]

So you're going to have to purchase a separate drive just to be able to load your software?

I buy most of my software over the internet and download it directly to my machine - it's the future. ;-)

[WilliamLondon]

I have to agree. I have an X60 (and an X40 before that) and they're excellent machines, definitely a benchmark Apple should be shooting for. Take note of the great keyboard too. My problem with these machines is that as a power user, I do use the media slice a lot (for extra battery, 2nd drive, etc) which sort of defeats the purpose, but it's always ready to go solo and at less than 3 pounds a joy to carry. I really don't/shouldn't need the media slice but I need to be prepared.

I used to work at IBM and my first laptop there was an X-series. When they replaced that machine I went for a T-series because of the integrated CD/DVD but I quickly discovered how rarely I used the CD/DVD drive and then regretted not opting for the lovely lightweight X-series with an external drive (which *is* portable for those who REALLY need it every moment of the day).

[WilliamLondon]

This news had to come the week after I purchase my first laptop... and I tried to wait... :mad:

Be happy with what you bought - I'll bet it's a fantastic machine! Just know that the day after the bestest new 12" ultra portable comes out, there'll be a new rumour about a new machine about to be released putting to shame the new 12" ultra portable.

I'm jealous you have a fun new machine to play with. Enjoy it!!

[twoodcc]

So Mr. Shaw,

What do you want Apple to do?

just curious. but i agree with the docking station. i think it's a good idea for one. my roommate has one, and it's not ugly at all. he has a small dell 12" laptop, and he just clips it on the station, and bam! he's on his bigger monitor with regular keyboard and mouse, and you don't even see the laptop.

i could see Apple making this work

[AidenShaw]

So Mr. Shaw,

What do you want Apple to do?
Concentrate more on function, and less on form.

Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)

Make a Conroe or Kentsfield mini-tower - there's a huge hole in the lineup between the horribly constrained all-in-one Imac and the incredibly large MacIntel Pro.

The "product quadrant" has outlived its usefulness.... Give it up, and make a larger range of systems.

And, GET RID OF THE TACKY WHITE PLASTIC.

[freebooter]

I'm really interested in this supposed new machine, but given Apple's recent quality control problems on new products, I'd be really hesitant to be an early adopter. It took Apple 6 months or more to fix the many mb prob.s. I think I'm going to let others beta test (if that's the correct term for hardware) the new "book".
I'm heading out now to look at the Macbooks--I may come home with one... If I buy one, I'll sell it next summer, if the rumored new 12" is a reality, and is good.

ps: i agree on the iMac_____MacPro gap. I have an iMac 24" but would have preferred a mini-tower and ACD.

[twoodcc]

Concentrate more on function, and less on form.

Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)

Make a Conroe or Kentsfield mini-tower - there's a huge hole in the lineup between the horribly constrained all-in-one Imac and the incredibly large MacIntel Pro.

The "product quadrant" has outlived its usefulness.... Give it up, and make a larger range of systems.

And, GET RID OF THE TACKY WHITE PLASTIC.

i agree with the mini-tower. very big gap there. but i was mainly talking about the laptop line, since this is a laptop thread.

aren't there plently of 'real pros' who use thin laptops?

and it does seem that the macbooks have been selling pretty good

[OdduWon]

the ultra thin mac pro must be designed with the needs of pros in mind, so what is it that the ultra thin'ness will do for professionals?:confused: Will it allow more portability? and in doing so would it loose it's pro status? :mad: The thin'ness of this rumored mac must provide usefulness to pros, or not be a mac x pro.

it seems the only use this mac could afford to a pro is if it were a campanion product. a tool for mobile computing needs when away from your mac station. it could be usefull for things like inventory, or item viewing for order gathering. Data transfer, external drive interfacing and on the fly mobile presentations. Stickies and calenders wigets. Trading. If it were a mac pad it would be a great student companion. sitting right on your book or on top you folder. It would be great foe architects and bus ride artists. This could be a great comsumer product. the media coolness of mac and the simple efficency of gadgetry from apple. this could be a MINI revolution:p

[tveric]

I buy most of my software over the internet and download it directly to my machine - it's the future. ;-)

oh really? so 6 GB of iLife '06 - no problem, just purchase it online and download it, huh?

[iW00t]

Concentrate more on function, and less on form.

Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)

Make a Conroe or Kentsfield mini-tower - there's a huge hole in the lineup between the horribly constrained all-in-one Imac and the incredibly large MacIntel Pro.

The "product quadrant" has outlived its usefulness.... Give it up, and make a larger range of systems.

And, GET RID OF THE TACKY WHITE PLASTIC.

I agree with you on all counts! :D

[iW00t]

oh really? so 6 GB of iLife '06 - no problem, just purchase it online and download it, huh?

Considering Apple charges $1 to download a 4MB song, for iLife it will only cost an introductory price of $999. A bargain for something that "costs" $1500 worth of bandwidth!

[WilliamLondon]

oh really? so 6 GB of iLife '06 - no problem, just purchase it online and download it, huh?

Yep - just like the plan for us to download movies and such. I live in the UK and I know US connections are faster than I have (in general). If you've got the bandwidth, wouldn't you prefer that method??

[psychofreak]

Considering Apple charges $1 to download a 4MB song, for iLife it will only cost an introductory price of $999. A bargain for something that "costs" $1500 worth of bandwidth!

You're not only paying for bandwidth when you buy a song, you're paying for the rights.

[tveric]

Yep - just like the plan for us to download movies and such. I live in the UK and I know US connections are faster than I have (in general). If you've got the bandwidth, wouldn't you prefer that method??

You're out of your gourd. I don't know what connections are like for you, but I have DSL, and in real-world downloading of a massive file, I get a MAX of 150k/sec, and that's not great when you start talking about 6GB files. It would literally take me 1/10th the time to drive to my Apple store and buy iLife. Cable internet here is better for people that can get it, but you rarely get what's advertised as the top speeds, especially if you live in a neighborhood where almost everyone is plugged in; speeds can slow to 56k-like connections at peak hours in some areas. Fibre internet is coming but very very slowly, it'll be years before it's available at my house.

I've actually heard the opposite of what you said, that Europeans are way ahead of us in getting super-fast residential broadband. Regardless, you're right about downloading 6 GB software and 4 GB movies being the way of the future - key word being "future". The point at which I don't need an optical drive in my laptop is still years off, and that means it's still at least one laptop away. That 12" MacBook, if it exists, better have one, or I ain't buying it. (I'm fairly sure it'll have one, though, Apple's not stupid enough to think we can ditch optical drives just yet)

[princealfie]

You're out of your gourd. I don't know what connections are like for you, but I have DSL, and in real-world downloading of a massive file, I get a MAX of 150k/sec, and that's not great when you start talking about 6GB files. It would literally take me 1/10th the time to drive to my Apple store and buy iLife. Cable internet here is better for people that can get it, but you rarely get what's advertised as the top speeds, especially if you live in a neighborhood where almost everyone is plugged in; speeds can slow to 56k-like connections at peak hours in some areas. Fibre internet is coming but very very slowly, it'll be years before it's available at my house.

I've actually heard the opposite of what you said, that Europeans are way ahead of us in getting super-fast residential broadband. Regardless, you're right about downloading 6 GB software and 4 GB movies being the way of the future - key word being "future". The point at which I don't need an optical drive in my laptop is still years off, and that means it's still at least one laptop away. That 12" MacBook, if it exists, better have one, or I ain't buying it. (I'm fairly sure it'll have one, though, Apple's not stupid enough to think we can ditch optical drives just yet)

Why not wifi the files instead of the optical drive?

[WilliamLondon]

You're out of your gourd. I don't know what connections are like for you, but I have DSL, and in real-world downloading of a massive file, I get a MAX of 150k/sec, and that's not great when you start talking about 6GB files. It would literally take me 1/10th the time to drive to my Apple store and buy iLife. Cable internet here is better for people that can get it, but you rarely get what's advertised as the top speeds, especially if you live in a neighborhood where almost everyone is plugged in; speeds can slow to 56k-like connections at peak hours in some areas. Fibre internet is coming but very very slowly, it'll be years before it's available at my house.

I've actually heard the opposite of what you said, that Europeans are way ahead of us in getting super-fast residential broadband. Regardless, you're right about downloading 6 GB software and 4 GB movies being the way of the future - key word being "future". The point at which I don't need an optical drive in my laptop is still years off, and that means it's still at least one laptop away. That 12" MacBook, if it exists, better have one, or I ain't buying it. (I'm fairly sure it'll have one, though, Apple's not stupid enough to think we can ditch optical drives just yet)

Well, I was just in the states last week and my mates have a cable modem MUCH faster mine, and I've got probably the fastest (generally) available in the UK. Still, though, for those not in areas where good broadband speeds are available an external drive can fill the gap until the future arrives for them, or they can use their other home or office machine.

[VanMac]

And YES, I will be buying the Belkin dock when it comes out.

Just to chime in on the dock thing....

I use an IBM T43 from work. Pretty decent laptop actually.....

Popping it into the dock when I get to work is very convenient. I would definately get a dock for a future Apple Laptop. (currently have iBook G4, and love it).

[johnnyjibbs]

I think there is some confusion over the "Pro" line-up. I own a 12" PowerBook G4 - a "pro" model - but I only use it for consumer uses. That said, I still like to tinker with Photoshop, Garageband, iMovie and Final Cut Express, I use Office and the like... does this mean it's not suited to me?

Back when I bought mine, the iBook was still a G3 (a turn-off for me), while the 12" PB offered extra things like audio line-in (hardly a pro feature), which the iBook didn't. But I preferred its looks: slot-load DVD-writing drive, metallic finish, nice and sturdy keyboard, and was prepared to pay the extra. It still suits me to the ground to this day.

Fast forward to this day and, in my mind, there is just as small a gap in terms of power between the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines that why can't the 12" version be a "pro" model? To be honest, I would say that all Macs are good enough to use for a pro, certainly in terms of a portable model. No "pro" who requires a powerful computer for what they do when at the office will not have a Mac Pro waiting at their desk anyway. You've got to accept that laptops will always be less powerful than desktops, or else there wouldn't be much point in the latter. An ultra-thin 12" MBP would be just as useful to a pro as a consumer and vice-versa. It will contain more features than the MacBook and have more in common with it's "Pro" cousins, hence the name is better suited. Plus it helps to justify the extra price tag. And what's in a name anyway?

[freebooter]

I'm really interested in this supposed new machine, but given Apple's recent quality control problems on new products, I'd be really hesitant to be an early adopter. It took Apple 6 months or more to fix the many mb prob.s. I think I'm going to let others beta test (if that's the correct term for hardware) the new "book".
I'm heading out now to look at the Macbooks--I may come home with one... If I buy one, I'll sell it next summer, if the rumored new 12" is a reality, and is good.

ps: i agree on the iMac_____MacPro gap. I have an iMac 24" but would have preferred a mini-tower and ACD.

I did it. I bought a MacBook yesterday, and man it's sweet! (1st laptop) If and when the new "ultra" portable comes and its quirks have been ironed out (say 6 to 12 months), I'll sell this one and get the new. A bird in hand is worth however many rumor-ware birds in the bush. :)

[tveric]

Still, though, for those not in areas where good broadband speeds are available an external drive can fill the gap until the future arrives for them, or they can use their other home or office machine.

Uh, yeah, an external drive.... or just an optical drive that's included in the 12" macBook Pro. What's the smarter option?

[840quadra]

Concentrate more on function, and less on form.

May work for other companies, but not for Apple. Apple = design to both their customers, and now the Media.


Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)[quote]

I am a real pro that enjoys owning a piece of equipment that is high tech, however I also appreciate something that is easy enough to handle. I don't want to carry a heavy husk of a laptop for hours.

[quote]Make a Conroe or Kentsfield mini-tower - there's a huge hole in the lineup between the horribly constrained all-in-one Imac and the incredibly large MacIntel Pro.

The "product quadrant" has outlived its usefulness.... Give it up, and make a larger range of systems.



I agree 100&#37;, and am a paying customer waiting to buy something like this!

And, GET RID OF THE TACKY WHITE PLASTIC.

I happen to like white :p , and so does the market, as... well.. iMacs and Macbooks are selling quite well <shrugs> . I do like the option of choice though, except I don't agree that someone should have to pay a "design tax" to get a unique color.

[CaptainCaveMann]

Awesome! I really hope this thing comes out in 2007. Ill buy it right away! On second thought ill wait for a 2nd revision. :D

[princealfie]

Awesome! I really hope this thing comes out in 2007. Ill buy it right away! On second thought ill wait for a 2nd revision. :D

Noooo... first revision... we gotta buy it first to get second rev.! :cool:

[AidenShaw]

Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)

I am a real pro that enjoys owning a piece of equipment that is high tech, however I also appreciate something that is easy enough to handle. I don't want to carry a heavy husk of a laptop for hours.
Have you seen the amount of gear that a video photographer, or sound technician, or serious on-location photographer packs anyway?

A few extra pounds for a portable workstation would be nothing....

I didn't say get rid of the thin system, I said add a more capable system for people who want it.

Why is it that so many think that adding a model for a new workflow has to mean cancelling an existing model?

It's that stupid 7-sided product quadrant that Apple is using ;)

I happen to like white :p , and so does the market, as... well.. iMacs and Macbooks are selling quite well <shrugs> . I do like the option of choice though, except I don't agree that someone should have to pay a "design tax" to get a unique color.
The LCD monitors, on the other hand, look pretty good until you see that tacky white plastic on the sides.

[HiRez]

Have you seen the amount of gear that a video photographer, or sound technician, or serious on-location photographer packs anyway?

A few extra pounds for a portable workstation would be nothing....

I didn't say get rid of the thin system, I said add a more capable system for people who want it.Although I'm quite happy with the MacBook Pros for both graphics and coding work, it would be cool to have a larger, heavier power portable for people who want it. Quad-cores and dual batteries to start, 18"-19" screen at 1920x1080 resolution with a good backlight, whatever is the current best GPU available (preferably multiple GPUs), and multiple FireWire and USB2 ports all on their own separate busses, no more shared bus, dual ethernet ports, 4+ GB RAM capacity, dual 2.5" drives that are RAIDable, second or even third trackpad button. OK so you'll need a special computer bag to carry the thing and it's inevitably large-ish power supply. Still, I'd definitely consider buying one if it's under $3,500 or so.

The LCD monitors, on the other hand, look pretty good until you see that tacky white plastic on the sides.I think you're supposed to be so awed by the screen you never look at the side. I loaded up World of Warcraft at work on our quad G5 with 30" Cinema Display the other day (with 19" next to it for Thotbott :) ) If it wasn't work...I might never leave. WoW is so beautifully orgasmic on that screen. Anyway, personally I don't mind the white plastic, I don't think it looks that tacky in most Apple products. Does everything have to be metallic? Personally, I'm still waiting for them to use more velour in their designs, there's just not enough of that today.

Also, I don't know if this was posted here, but Mac OS Rumors has an update (http://www.macosrumors.com/20061210-1A.html) on rumored thin pro specs:
* "Macbook Thin" -- spec-wise, primarily a variant of the Pro family but will probably be branded as separate from the standard *or* Pro MacBook families. Shipping name is unconfirmed.
* 12-inch widescreen display, 1280x800 resolution.
* 2.16 or 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processors
* 1GB of DDR2-667 memory standard. Max. capacity 3GB.
* Standard "Pro" ports: USB2, Firewire 400 & 800, Gigabit Ethernet, Digital/Analog Audio minijack I/O ports.
* ExpressCard expansion slot (believed to be /34 type)
* Similar storage to "Pro": 2.5in SATA HDDs at 120GB & up, 'Combo' or 'Super' optical drive.
* ATi Radeon Mobility X1600 or nVIDIA GeForce GO 7600 graphics systems with 256MB of VRAM.
* Mini-DVI display connector with full second display capabilities
* Of course, Built-in iSight, stereo microphone, Airport Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR.
* Battery life is expected to be "best in class" at about 6.5 hours real-world, some reports have suggested up to 8 hours is possible.

[garethlewis2]

Oh I love the new specs for the super 12" display. Does it come with a bucket for when the X1600 and the Core2Duo at 2.33Ghz melts. How the ******* would you cool it down? Stick it on a block of ice?

[emotion]

If, and it's a big if, they release this kind of machine soon I think it's fairly likely they'd stick to a low voltage chip like the forthcoming L7400 (1.5GHz, C2D, 4MB cache).

Those expecting massive power and super small size are going to be disappointed.

[mkrishnan]

Oh I love the new specs for the super 12" display. Does it come with a bucket for when the X1600 and the Core2Duo at 2.33Ghz melts. How the ******* would you cool it down? Stick it on a block of ice?

Yeah, I'd love it were it possible, but this sounds somewhat unrealistic to say the least... Or rather, at the very least, there's no way a notebook like that would be thinner than the existing notebooks. Or lighter.

EDIT: Source in Cupertino? Yeah, we got one.

http://www.vdi-nachrichten.com/_library/content/image/obj464_DT_Garbageman_200.jpg

[sixstorm]

^^^^

Wow, if those are the specs for the 12", I'm creaming in my pants already! :D Those are some nice specs though. I'm just looking for a powerful 12" Apple laptop . . . that's all.

[840quadra]

Have you seen the amount of gear that a video photographer, or sound technician, or serious on-location photographer packs anyway?


Yup. And I also use much of that equipment myself when on location, but I tend to carry a light load when I am doing my freelance work.

- Digital SLR Camera with 2 lenses, external flash
- 35mm SLR with lens, external flash
- Prosumer Digital camera with 2 external lenses
- 3 tripods (one 3 point, one single leg, and one mini tripod)
- 2 Laptops with power bricks, 2 batteries, connection cables for cameras, and laptops. (to be honest I tend to leave 1 laptop at the hotel, it is with as a backup)
- Sometimes I bring light metering equipment, and a small remote flash.

I guess I may not be a pro because I don't get too crazy with white balance, color or light metering, and I also don't bring large remote flash equipment, or other light sources with me. Granted, taking all of that extra equipment onto a race track could get me killed or seriously injured!

My point is, the weight adds up, and if I can save a couple of pounds, and have more room in my 1 backpack, I am much happier!


And I keep forgetting the LCDs have that stupid white band.. In that case it just looks out of place, and tacky! I thought you were going after iBooks, MacBooks, and iMacs :o .

[Linito]

Concentrate more on function, and less on form.

Make a 40mm thick portable for the real pros (audio/video/photo/power.users). (But they don't have to stop making the 25mm for the "pretend pros" who want to show off at Starbucks or the student union.)

Make a Conroe or Kentsfield mini-tower - there's a huge hole in the lineup between the horribly constrained all-in-one Imac and the incredibly large MacIntel Pro.

The "product quadrant" has outlived its usefulness.... Give it up, and make a larger range of systems.

And, GET RID OF THE TACKY WHITE PLASTIC.

in other words change your name to Dell :rolleyes: :p

[b0ned0me]

Just in case anyone is still following this thread, I think it's worth pointing out that there is a big difference between a docking station (http://www5.pc.ibm.com/uk/products.nsf/$wwwPartnumLookup/_39T4572?OpenDocument) and a port replicator (http://www5.pc.ibm.com/uk/products.nsf/$wwwPartnumLookup/_250510W?OpenDocument).
One is a big bulky thing with actual devices in it (like hard drives, network cards, etc.) and the other is a little thing that provides all the same ports you have on your laptop, usually including a slot for a cable lock and a separate lock. I'm not that enamoured of docking stations, but port replicators are, IMO, essential - they make it a 10-second experience to connect/disconnect to all the stuff on your desk, and take up almost no space compared to the laptop itself. If Apple want to get serious in the ultraportable market they should take a good hard look at the Lenovo X61 - if they can get close to its price and functionality and still make a profit, they'll have a huuuuuuge seller on their hands, guaranteed.

[princealfie]

Too late. It looks like someone beat Apple to the design! Ouch.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9667462-1.html?subj=Crave&part=rss&tag=feed&tag=cnetfd.blog

[YS2003]

Too late. It looks like someone beat Apple to the design! Ouch.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9667462-1.html?subj=Crave&part=rss&tag=feed&tag=cnetfd.blog
Do you think TSA will allow that thing on the airline? Liquid is in that notebook. But, the title says it is e-Book, note a laptope/notebook computer. So, I am guessing it does not have sufficient power to be a regular notebook computer.

[AppliedVisual]

If, and it's a big if, they release this kind of machine soon I think it's fairly likely they'd stick to a low voltage chip like the forthcoming L7400 (1.5GHz, C2D, 4MB cache).

Those expecting massive power and super small size are going to be disappointed.

Exactly. If Apple releases a smaller 12" or similar ultra-portable notebook, or tablet style computer, I think we can pretty much count on it using one of the ELV C2D chips. The 1.5GHz L7400 is a very good candidate. Not only would it increase battery life, but it takes less effort to keep them cool -- they don't run as hot as the 2.16/2.33GHz chips.

Even with that, don't expect battery life to be any better than the current Macbook. Sure, there's a smaller screen and most likely a CPU consuming less power, but the battery is going to be a bit smaller. Unless Apple stays with integrated video (good bet they will - like the upcoming Intel GMA3000) and eliminates the internal optical drive, battery life will still be about the same as what people get with the Macbook. I don't see how Apple will put an ATI X1600 or nVidia 7n00 GPU in there. Even an X1300 sucks a lot of power and they have enough trouble keeping the X1600 cool under load in the MBP at 15~17".

As for thickness... No way this system is going to be any thinner than current MBP/Macbook systems. In other words, about 1". If it's a tablet system, it can be a bit thinner not having to open... Screen thickness for a notebook design can be cut in half if they go with OLED and eliminate the need for a backlight (and OLED has its own share of issues). But the main chassis area to house the CPU and other chipsets, logic board and especially hard drive/optical drive is not going to get any thinner... Just can't happen... I suppose they could shave a bit more by dropping down to the 1.8" hard drives like those in the iPod, but performance is nowhere good enough for a notebook computer -- even a super-compact model and FLASH or other solid-state storage media is too expensive right now to consider as an alternative. While I'm all for a user-replaceable daughtercard (instead of an HD) that holds an array of 20 SD type chips at 8GB each, could easily fit into the same space as 2.5" HDD (actually a bit smaller and half as thick), it would cost AT LEAST $3K and wouldn't last as long as a good HD under regular use.

[HiRez]

Too late. It looks like someone beat Apple to the design! Ouch.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9667462-1.html?subj=Crave&part=rss&tag=feed&tag=cnetfd.blog
It looks kinda cool, but not really that practical. There's a ton of wasted space taken up by that gigantic hinge, and it's not flat so packing is less than ideal. Also, what's up with the smooth glass surface over the keyboard? That doesn't seem like much fun for typing.

[BRLawyer]

I certainly hope you are not a lawyer... hang on a sec... it is right there in your username.

So we prefer the flexibility of docks, you know, having the ability to have a small and light with no optical while on the move, and the ability to turns our machine into a workstation at home and in the office with one connection, and by virtue of that you figured that we want the Powerbook Duo. Together with its ancient processor and craptacular design.

Very good argument. I certainly hope you make more of such arguments in court.

Anyhow stick to your own opinions, nobody who matters (ie: the ones ultimately doing the design, or the other dock users) care.

Perhaps you really need a lawyer, as your arguments make little sense to me, not to mention your random diatribes. Where have I said that we want a Duo again? I just said that, at the time, Apple's implementation of a docking station was pretty good and avant-garde, although it faced poor sales, to say the least.

And I still stand to my opinion that Apple doesn't need to stretch itself in multiple fronts...docks DON'T have to be built by Apple at all.

And yep, that's my opinion...nobody "who matters" should care, although they are still siding with me on this, i.e., Apple designers. As for dock users, you may still have your beautiful Dells and 3rd party docks...no problem at all.

[BRLawyer]

in other words change your name to Dell :rolleyes: :p

Ditto. No further comments needed...:rolleyes:

[Performa636CD]

I hope these rumors are true. Like some others have said, the 12" PowerBook G4 is showing it's age. Mine will run out of warranty coverage in less than a year...too bad I can't extend my Applecare. :(

Also, by getting a small laptop, I have an excuse to get an ACD :D

[koobcamuk]

I've actually heard the opposite of what you said, that Europeans are way ahead of us in getting super-fast residential broadband.

You're right. The US is behind. I am in the UK and have 8meg internet and it's awesome.

[Chundles]

You're right. The US is behind. I am in the UK and have 8meg internet and it's awesome.

We have 24Mbps ADSL2+ here.

But of course I can't get it, I can only get dial-up or super expensive wireless broadband.


Stupid Telstra.

[psychofreak]

You're right. The US is behind. I am in the UK and have 8meg internet and it's awesome.

Hahaha. I'm in London with 24meg internet! 13meg/s is the fastest download I've got so far. Adslspeedtest says my actual speed is 18meg/s, with 1.1meg/s upload.

[tveric]

Yeah, anyone who thinks the USA customers are ready for no optical drive is pretty much smoking crack. That all just confirms everything I've read about our broadband vs. yours, thanks guys. Luckily we make up the largest market segment, so I don't think Apple is going to be eliminating optical drives just yet.

[YS2003]

Yeah, anyone who thinks the USA customers are ready for no optical drive is pretty much smoking crack. That all just confirms everything I've read about our broadband vs. yours, thanks guys. Luckily we make up the largest market segment, so I don't think Apple is going to be eliminating optical drives just yet.

Well, I am not smoking that thing; but, I may be getting the second hand smoke from the pipe you are smoking, though. There is the market for ultraportable notebook as a business-oriented machine. Not everyone needs the DVD player to watch DVDs at all times (there is some work to do). If Apple is serious about the corporate customers, it has to come up with some type of ultraportable notebook.

[sarge]

If Apple is serious about the corporate customers, it has to come up with some type of ultraportable notebook.


Maybe the iPhone will suit the ultra-portable-corporate needs?

[Kane.Elson]

I so very very much hope this is true. I knew I was waiting out for something !

[Yvan256]

I'd really like someone to explain to me why a thinner laptop becomes a "more portable" laptop. Why is a 12 x 8 x 0.75" laptop more portable than a 12 x 8 x 0.5" laptop?! It takes the same amount of room, except thinner. What's the point? :confused:

To me, "ultra-portable" means "smaller", like 6 x 4 x 0.75"

[iW00t]

I'd really like someone to explain to me why a thinner laptop becomes a "more portable" laptop. Why is a 12 x 8 x 0.75" laptop more portable than a 12 x 8 x 0.5" laptop?! It takes the same amount of room, except thinner. What's the point? :confused:

To me, "ultra-portable" means "smaller", like 6 x 4 x 0.75"

Thinner = less aluminum = lighter

[iW00t]

Perhaps you really need a lawyer, as your arguments make little sense to me, not to mention your random diatribes. Where have I said that we want a Duo again? I just said that, at the time, Apple's implementation of a docking station was pretty good and avant-garde, although it faced poor sales, to say the least.


Read the post I quoted from the post you replied again. Your sarcasm failed to elude me.


And I still stand to my opinion that Apple doesn't need to stretch itself in multiple fronts...docks DON'T have to be built by Apple at all.

And yep, that's my opinion...nobody "who matters" should care, although they are still siding with me on this, i.e., Apple designers. As for dock users, you may still have your beautiful Dells and 3rd party docks...no problem at all.

Oh yes, Apple does not stretch itself on multiple fronts. We are now talking about a company that has stretched way further than every single PC manufacturer put together, with portable music players to mobile phones to the upcoming iTV. Perhaps they should fire Steve and hire you in his place, from their share prices they are obviously doing something wrong.

Apple designers sided with you? Cite some sources please.

It is as good as saying your ass never sides with you since your ass is always facing in the opposite direction as your face. Total bullcrap.

[Nukemkb]

I'm in. Now I know my next purchase. Can't wait!

[AidenShaw]

Oh yes, Apple does not stretch itself on multiple fronts. We are now talking about a company that has stretched way further than every single PC manufacturer put together, with portable music players to mobile phones to the upcoming iTV.
Perhaps you should look around before making ridiculous claims like that.

Fujitsu - ASICs, processors, optical transducers, submarine cable equipment, PCs, laptops, servers, drives, tapes.... http://www.fujitsu.com/global/

Samsung - Shipbuilding, offshore drilling platforms, construction (dams, airports,...), glass, displays, chemicals, plastics, PCs, Insurance, Trust management, Financial services, Hotels,... http://www.samsung.com/AboutSAMSUNG/SAMSUNGGROUP/AffiliatedCompanies/ElectronicsIndustries/index.htm

HP - PCs, servers, storage systems, TVs, printers, calculators, cameras, scanners, copiers, FAX, teleconferencing...

Apple.... Pretty thin product line compared to these guys!

[aintnohalfstppn]

a 12" wide mbp would be so ideal. i don't know why they didn't have one when mbp originally launched.

i wouldn't mind the upgrade...but between this, iphone and itv, apple's going to put me in some debt.

[Heelix]

Ultra-thin 12'' MacBook Pro?

If this rumor is correct I can only see two possibilities
1) A tablet Mac/pc
I would personally not buy anything in tablet-form anytime soon.

2) MBP with OLED screen.
This would be huge! First mass-produced OLED laptop, and if someone would kick this new tech. off Apple is high on that list (if not even at the top).
Unfortunately I can’t see this happen as there still are issues with screen longevity.

Playing with the notion that it is option 2, my guess (hopeful thinking?!) would be that it probably would have the new integrated GMA300 chip with 1.4-1.6 GHz. HDD and RAM is really just a question of cost. They will surely have DVD kit (Blue Ray is too expensive), but hopefully they will have some kind of modular form to the laptop so that you can replace the DVD rom with extra HDD, battery or nothing at all, and still keep its esthetic design.

I can envision it black, made of carbon fiber and called MacBook Portable. [Insert Drool] ;)

Ok that this might just be one mans dream, but a man needs to dream to get away from reality that is a gigantic windows based computer.

[OdduWon]

what if the released a tablet style mac with a lazer keyboard? that might be cool. prop it up on the desk and it looks like a dvd case sized cinema display. then turn it on and it becomes a imac mini. I still think that if apple made a small tablet it could be the new ibook. It will be the companion of every mac using student. it will be slower than the mac mini and but will be great with inote 07. not a wacom replacement by any means but with the new improvements to accesability in loepard this would be a welcomed addition. i wish i had one on my physics book now. it would make it easy to send class notes to friends of even make a note book for studying on the go. though it may become more of a distraction than a production tool. what do you all think :confused:

[psychometry]

what if the released a tablet style mac with a virtual keyboard, like those lazer ones? that might be cool. propit up on the desk and it looks like a giant ipod. then turn it on and it becomes a imac mini. I still think that if the made a small tablet it could be the new ibook. It will be the companion of every mac using student. it will be just fast enought o do light ilifing and it will be great with inote 07. not a wacom replacement by nay means but eith the new improvements to accesability in loeparg this would be a welcomed addition. i wish i had one on my physics book now. it would make it easy to send class notes to friends of even make a note book for cram sessions on the go. al though it may become more of a distraction that a media production tool. what do you all think :confused:

What if they released a tablet-style iPhone with a numeric keypad and a pull-out, full size keyboard? That might be cool. Prop it up on the desk and it looks like a giant iPod. Put it on your lap and it turns into a 17in MacBook Pro. Put it on a counter and it becomes a Cuisinart. Press a button and it turns into a Back to the Future simulator. Put it in a chair and it becomes a kitty. It will be just fast enough to run Photoshop in both OS X and Parallels simultaneously while curing cancer through protein folding simulations. And it will be great with a side of potatoes au gratin. Not a wife replacement but with the new improvements to clothes washing in Leopard it would be a welcomed addition. I wish I had one in my pants right now. It would make for cram sessions on the go. Al Gore may become more of a distraction than a media production tool. What do you all think? *Remembered to remove mittens before writing this*

[Annndy!]

What if they released a tablet-style iPhone with a numeric keypad and a pull-out, full size keyboard? That might be cool. Prop it up on the desk and it looks like a giant iPod. Put it on your lap and it turns into a 17in MacBook Pro. Put it on a counter and it becomes a Cuisinart. Press a button and it turns into a Back to the Future simulator. Put it in a chair and it becomes a kitty. It will be just fast enough to run Photoshop in both OS X and Parallels simultaneously while curing cancer through protein folding simulations. And it will be great with a side of potatoes au gratin. Not a wife replacement but with the new improvements to clothes washing in Leopard it would be a welcomed addition. I wish I had one in my pants right now. It would make for cram sessions on the go. Al Gore may become more of a distraction than a media production tool. What do you all think? *Remembered to remove mittens before writing this*

I take it you don't like his idea then? :p

[macow]

Hey, another thought...

I would go for it... especially if there was a good video card included.

Does anyone here use mac book pro for final cut pro/ other video editing? I intend to use mine primarily for that. I just bought a 15" mac book pro but haven't opened the box yet!! I value portability over the screen size (provided i can always hook up to bigger screens to do my video editing)... however i cannot trade a good video card for that!! does anyone have some kind of idea if the video card and whatever else are related to good video editing will remain teh same in the ultra thin version as is in the 15" mac book pro??

from what i read the 12" mac book pro will be out sometime in jan 2007 (?)... should i wait for it... or should I open the box!!! :cool: :rolleyes: hmm...

thanks for any advice,
maccow

[AppliedVisual]

from what i read the 12" mac book pro will be out sometime in jan 2007 (?)... should i wait for it... or should I open the box!!! :cool: :rolleyes: hmm...

thanks for any advice,
maccow

The truth is that nobody knows (except key people inside Apple) when (or even *if*) such a thing as 12" MBP will arrive. If you can wait, then by all means return your unopened box and wait at least for MWSF in about 3 weeks. If nothing else, we should see a few new goodies and possibly some price adjustments. New notebook models are possible, but I wouldn't get to excited over such a possibility. Don't expect a better video card in a compact notebook (like a 12" size). In fact, you can bet that such a small notebook won't ship until the upcoming Intel i965PM chipset ships, which includes the newer GMA3000 integrated video. And that will most likely be what's included in bot the next revision of Macbook as well as any ultra-compact MBP.

If you need to get your work done now, just open the box and go to work.. You'll be glad you did.

[coffey7]

I'll stick with my 13.3" macbook. 12" is just too small for me at my old age of 35.

[SBik2]

if i wouldnt have gotten my macbook last summer, i would love it but maybe 12.5 inches would be better..

[mkrishnan]

So actually, I've been following this thread on and off... AppliedVisual got me thinking it, and I keyword searched it, and I haven't really seen Penryn mentioned much in this thread.

I wonder, knowing that it is quite a ways off, but given that Apple's design of a subcompact is going to be a pretty ground-up thing, what's the likelihood that Apple is already in design cycle for an ultimate release of a Penryn-based subcompact late in 2007 (or in 2008 if Intel slips)?

[DavoMrMac]

I don't think we will see a MacBook thin, after all it would impact sales of the MacBook too much.

I think that later in the year Apple will update the MBPro line with a revised/new design and at the same time re-introduce a 12-inch Pro model.

[dr_lha]

I don't think we will see a MacBook thin, after all it would impact sales of the MacBook too much.
I doubt it would if it cost more than the MacBook. I imagine a lightweight small MacBook Pro coming in around $1600 personally, which means it will probably be $1800, knowing Apple.

[bigjohn]

I wonder if there will be additional product announcements this week from AppleInc? A macworld with 2 announcements (3 counting 80211n) seems a little lacking...

[Crash-n-Burn]

Now I don't know what to do! I want a nice video card with portability. Why does Apple have to do this to me. I either have to wait, or buy at 15". Let's hope for more good news at macworld.

[macEfan]

I miss the 12" laptops.... they were great for portabilty... I mean the macbooks are nice, but I still like a 12" model for those who choose one that size....

[Crash-n-Burn]

Do any of you guys think that they are going to release it anytime soon? Or am I wasting my time waiting.

[Apple Corps]

Do any of you guys think that they are going to release it anytime soon? Or am I wasting my time waiting.

Referencing your first post about more good news from Macworld - There is NO OTHER news from Macworld - the Keynote is over. What do you think they are going to release?

VERY FEW of the 'Rumors" panned out:

No 50" display
No new displays
No C2D minis
No speed bumps
No ultra thin MBP
No shipping iPhone - 6 MONTHS away !!!!!!!!!!
TV thing does not even support 1080p - lame spec
No iLife or iWork 07

You get the idea about all of these rumors.

[balamw]

Patience is a virtue.

Santa Rosa (Centrino Pro) is due in Q2, and you can be that new Macs that make use of it will show up around then with Leopard, iLife 07 and the whole nine yards.

B

[jimN]

That's why they're called rumours. Seems Steve was really keen to get this announced before it got spoiled by leaks. This will do wonders for their share price as he is promising to sell 10 million units of a 500-600 dollar device in 2008. Steve may want to please his fans, but the shareholders want more than bells and whistles.

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the mini sees a slient update in the next week or so. MBP thin may be slightly further away.

[dllavaneras]

Bummer. I wanted this bad :( Oh well, I wouldn't have been able to afford it right now, so I'll wait 'till Leopard, Santa Rosa and all that

[schnarkles]

As much as I'd like these rumors of a 12" thinbook to be true, I'm wondering if the source for the original story didn't hear something about the iPhone that got them to thinking a new addition to the notebook line was due. Afterall, the iPhone does have a number of features that are more typical of a laptop than a phone or iPod (e.g., OSX, widescreen display, intel processor(?)). The original story is pretty specific about other things too though (e.g., optical drive, dual core processor)...

- Mary Anne

[sam10685]

thin 12 inch macbook? my wallet is ready.

[mark88]

The problem with these small laptops is pixel density. I love my 12" PB but 1024x768 is just not enough.

If they ever do another small pro laptop they gotta have a killer screen.

[balamw]

The problem with these small laptops is pixel density. I love my 12" PB but 1024x768 is just not enough.

If they ever do another small pro laptop they gotta have a killer screen.
I think that Apple will gladly ship extreme high-res screens once Leopard and resolution independence are here...

iPhone gives us clues as to how they might address a larger virtual screen.

B

[BigPrince]

thin 12 inch macbook? my wallet is ready.

Ditto

[dllavaneras]

:sigh: the wait is going to be loooong...

[Crash-n-Burn]

:sigh: the wait is going to be loooong...

My fingers are crossed that they are going to release it with Leopard, otherwise I'm going to get a 15" MBP and be really really happy, but not super happy.

[skeep5]

Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

Macbook poopsmear. i called THAT first.

[Andrew D.]

Oh man, this would be pretty sweet. I would totally drop money for that piece of hardware for sure. I love my MacBook and I would probably love it as well.

[iW00t]

- gigabit ethernet does not work with AEBS
- 802.11n wireless how is the data going to get into the AEBS?
- bluetooth copying an 50mb file will take like... 1 minute?
- USB Oh yes, because Macs support USB-USB file sharing :rolleyes:
- firewire (maybe) the maybe is well placed


:apple:

[anti-microsoft]

I adore 12" PowerBooks or iBooks. But now its time to replace them with 12" MacBooks and Macbook Pros. Don't you think?
They'd be perfect: iSight, Firewire, USB, Airport (802.11b,g,n),...

It's possibly true, I think the reason apple dropped the 1.83GHz is 'cos they're going to introduce an inferior model like a 12" one!

[SC68Cal]

Macbook poopsmear. i called THAT first.

Dead Thread

4 months old. Move along people.