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MacRumors
Dec 4, 2006, 02:40 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macscoop/MacOSXRumors claims (http://www.macscoop.com/articles/2006/11/17/sources-confirm-plans-for-a-smaller-ultra-thin-form-factored-macbook-pro) that Apple is finishing development on a 12" MacBook Pro described as "ultra-thin":

The new laptop should be even thinner and weigh less than the current models in the MacBook Pro line-up. In spite of this very tiny and lightweight form-factor, the miniaturized MacBook Pro should keep its built-in optical drive and sport a dual-core processor, providing unequalled size/performance ratio in the PC industry, sources told MacScoop.

This "ultra-portable" MacBook Pro is estimated to be priced in the $1700-$1800 range and sport a 12" widescreen display.

The introduction of 12" MacBook Pro would fill a gap left by the 12" PowerBook model, which was dropped during the transition to Intel in early 2006. Apple retooled their laptop models which previously offered 12" / 14" iBooks and 12" / 15" / 17" PowerBooks to a lineup with 13" MacBooks and 15" / 17" MacBook Pros.

One analyst made similar claims (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060615153257.shtml) in mid-2006. At that time, analyst Benjamin Reitzes (http://guides.macrumors.com/Benjamin_Reitzes_(Analyst)) stated that Apple was working on an "ultra-portable PC" to be delivered by Macworld San Francisco 2007. Reitzes included comments about incorporating the use of NAND Flash memory to speed up boot times. This concept of Flash-based latops was revisited (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060928160047.shtml) in September 2006 by Appleinsider -- with expectations that NAND flash would make their way into the next revision of MacBooks due in 2007. While these rumors line up with each other, MacScoop makes no mention of Flash memory in this upcoming "ultra-thin" laptop.

MacScoop/MacOSXRumors cites "reliable" sources for this report and has had a recent history of some accurate reports with predictions of 23" (24") iMacs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060901123538.shtml) as well as Leopard info (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060805162310.shtml) pre-WWDC.



doraemonkey
Dec 4, 2006, 02:46 AM
Ah this would be great. My 12 inch G4 powerbook isn't holding out that well. Even though I don't do that much intensive work, I task switch a lot and I spend a lots of time looking at the rainbow ball. I do carry it with me everywhere, and a portable has to be just that... portable. I do plug it into a 20 inch monitor at work though.

Here's hoping that they give us a new ultra portable!

BlueRevolution
Dec 4, 2006, 02:47 AM
I thought the point of getting rid of the 12" PowerBooks was to get rid of the iBook/PowerBook buying dilemma. Still, I would love to see Apple add an ultrathin. I would be surprised if they could keep the optical drive, though.

oceanzen
Dec 4, 2006, 02:49 AM
PERFECT

I was currently going to go for the 13" MB mainly because I like the form, as they have similar power but now I'll seriously consider the 12" - Hope they have better graphics than the MB

doraemonkey
Dec 4, 2006, 02:49 AM
I'd almost go on to say that a cd-dvd drive isn't necessary, I don't use mine much at all. I could just leave a cd-dvd drive at work or at home. DVD movies I could just burn, and most file transfers are done now adays with a USB key.

But, if the optical drive is thin enough and doesn't take much room why not...

arn
Dec 4, 2006, 02:50 AM
some people were probably hoping for smaller.... but a 12" widescreen would probably feel significantly smaller than a 12" 4:3

(fixed the 15"/14" mistake)

arn

doraemonkey
Dec 4, 2006, 02:53 AM
Hey, another thought...

Why 12 inch? The keyboard should be a minimum width to be comfortable. And on the current 12" there is enough room in the frame to use a true 13". So they could in theory use the 13 inch of the Macbook, but reduce the bulk of the machine to sell it as a Pro.

I would go for it... especially if there was a good video card included.

Analog Kid
Dec 4, 2006, 02:54 AM
12" widescreen? Oy! I hope it's pixel dense... My biggest complaint about the old 12" is that 1024x768 just isn't enough to work with.

RoadKill
Dec 4, 2006, 02:55 AM
I hope this is true. I have a 20" iMac and a 13" macbook for traveling but sometimes it's just a little bit too big, especially on UK pendolino trains!

Also hope that the glossy screen is a option so I can buy a matte one and it has a fantastic battery life (8hrs :-) ) ok ok I know I'm living in la-la land with the battery but I would buy a laptop with 1/2 the performance of my macbook if the battery life was doubled (as long as i could also watch the odd dvd)

My previous notebook was a 800MHz G4 iBook and that was more than enough cpu for my on the road needs.

aswitcher
Dec 4, 2006, 02:57 AM
Looks like a pretty wild Macworld coming up

matthewHUB
Dec 4, 2006, 02:58 AM
ok so i think we can guess that the reason it's no smaller than 12" is that they want to keep the full size keyboard. And i agree with Arn that 12" 16:9 feels a lot smaller than the 4:3.

Been looking to replace my g4 12" powerbook... this may make me keep it till wwdc 2007.

So would this be a pro machine?? or skimp on features for ultraportability?

price seems reasonable. ugh it's 4am and i need to get to bed. Darn Macrumors!

erockerboy
Dec 4, 2006, 02:58 AM
Man, I will be stoked if this one turns out to be true. I love my 12" G4 PBook but it's definitely getting a bit long in the tooth. Would be great to have a new Intel speed demon in a similar form factor.

Bring it!!! :D

hsvguy
Dec 4, 2006, 02:58 AM
Bring it on - that's really all that needs to be said

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 03:00 AM
Balls, I was holding out for something ike this and pulled the trigger on a macbook.

I suspect a small mbp would sport the L7400 which is only 1.5GHz (though still 4MB cache).

matthewHUB
Dec 4, 2006, 03:02 AM
Would this still be part of the macbook pro line?

New name?

Macbook mini. I called it first.

balamw
Dec 4, 2006, 03:04 AM
The next five weeks are going to seem REAALLLY looong.

B

Philberttheduck
Dec 4, 2006, 03:08 AM
It'll probably be a 12.1" WS or at worse 11.1" WS. I hope it has on-par speeds of the MBPs, and not sacrifice any GHZ loss.

joelypolly
Dec 4, 2006, 03:20 AM
Now if this baby supports 30" ACD then I will buy it in a heart beat.... as soon as I get the heart going from the shock of apple actually releasing this.

LostPacket
Dec 4, 2006, 03:21 AM
I thought the optical drive was the limiting factor for thickness. Has a manufacturer come out with an ultra thin drive recently? What are the ultra-thin PC laptops using, if any?

Edit: I just lost my newbie status. *pats back*

dnedved
Dec 4, 2006, 03:23 AM
Sweet! If the screen will swing all the way back around so it can be used like a tablet I'll definitely be ordering one. Why the heck are they putting an optical drive in what would otherwise be an ultra-portable? Just put a few USB ports on it and people who want an optical drive can plug one in every year or two when they need legacy media! I don't want to pay the price for the drive, and I certainly don't want the extra weight and space for something I won't use that often.

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 03:25 AM
Would this still be part of the macbook pro line?

New name?

Macbook mini. I called it first.

Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

mhar4
Dec 4, 2006, 03:25 AM
Ah this would be great. My 12 inch G4 powerbook isn't holding out that well. Even though I don't do that much intensive work, I task switch a lot and I spend a lots of time looking at the rainbow ball. I do carry it with me everywhere, and a portable has to be just that... portable. I do plug it into a 20 inch monitor at work though.


I finally just upgraded the memory of my 12" PowerBook to 1.25GB and have had nary a sight of the beachball since. It's really a new lease of life and gives me pause before an upgrade. Not that one of these 12" MBPs don't sound very attractive, though!

bluebomberman
Dec 4, 2006, 03:29 AM
It's almost unfair that all this new stuff's poised to come out right after the holiday season...I keep on thinking I'm going to buy something, but the little voice in my head says:

Wait for Macworld

MAcNIAC
Dec 4, 2006, 03:30 AM
arghhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!

i just bought a 15" MBP because there is no 12"PB replacement - i will spew if this is true.

PodHead
Dec 4, 2006, 03:31 AM
I really wish I could afford to wait for this to become truth or not. This is exactly what I need. A pro model with portability, that would be awesome. Especially if it played nice with my 20" widescreen monitor. Dedicated video would be nice too. Guess I'll just keep the Macbook in decent shape, then....EBAY!!:p

praetorian909
Dec 4, 2006, 03:33 AM
I thought the optical drive was the limiting factor for thickness. Has a manufacturer come out with an ultra thin drive recently? What are the ultra-thin PC laptops using, if any?


I haven't really seen anything thinner than MB/MB Pros, which are already just 1 inch thick while still having an optical drive. So not so sure how they can make it any thinner. But there are lots of Japanese laptops w/drives that are significantly lighter, but they are really expensive ($2000+).

I think it's a really good thing that they're bringing the 12in size back. My cousin really loves hers, and I know there are many others from reading the posts here on MacRumors.

billystlyes
Dec 4, 2006, 03:36 AM
I would love to have a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro for under $1500. The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

amac4me
Dec 4, 2006, 03:37 AM
If true, this would sell like hot cakes!

jwp1964
Dec 4, 2006, 03:40 AM
I just bought a C2D MB last week...thought the 12" was dead...ouch...oh well there is always eBay for the MB if this thing is a reality. I was actually hoping for a 10.4 inch ultra portable, but what is described would work for me.:D

jwp1964
Dec 4, 2006, 03:41 AM
...The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

Compared to what? The entry level, IMHO, is an exceptional value.:confused:

.Andy
Dec 4, 2006, 03:42 AM
This is exactly what I want to replace my 12". I may trade my wife for one.

sachamun
Dec 4, 2006, 03:45 AM
Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

I call Macbook Shuffle...and you can only use it to view files at random. :p

siurpeeman
Dec 4, 2006, 03:48 AM
Edit: I just lost my newbie status. *pats back*

off-topic, but how long is one a newbie for anyway?

OwlsAndApples
Dec 4, 2006, 03:49 AM
I call Macbook Shuffle...and you can only use it to view files at random. :p

Hahaha :D
I call MacPod! has that been taken...?

OwlsAndApples
Dec 4, 2006, 03:49 AM
off-topic, but how long is one a newbie for anyway?

I think it's 29 posts, not sure though.

"User titles are based on post counts:

* Newbie => 0 - 29 posts
* Member => 30 posts
* Regular => 100 posts (minimum required to post in certain forums)
* 6502 => 500 posts (minimum required to have an avatar)
* 65816 => 1000 posts
* 65832 => 1500 posts
* 68000 => 1505 posts
* 68010 => 2000 posts
* 68020 => 2005 posts
* 68030 => 2500 posts
* 68040 => 3000 posts
* 601 => 5000 posts "

backspinner
Dec 4, 2006, 03:52 AM
why waste weight and size and costs on an optical drive?

Hasty
Dec 4, 2006, 03:52 AM
I call tablet.

x86isslow
Dec 4, 2006, 03:55 AM
Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

I call
MacBook Inviso

NewSc2
Dec 4, 2006, 03:55 AM
I call BS. Widescreen is the way of the future (every Mac right now is widescreen), and having a 12" widescreen would seriously be stretching it. 12" 1024x768 is already pretty small, and the Macbook's 13" screen isn't much bigger.

MatthewCobb
Dec 4, 2006, 03:56 AM
I call tablet.

Thats not so daft - if this rumour is vaguely true, it fits in with the other stuff thats been circulating recently. On the other hand, I'd buy it if it has a proper keyboard, not if it has a stylus thingy.

siurpeeman
Dec 4, 2006, 03:56 AM
Compared to what? The entry level, IMHO, is an exceptional value.:confused:

i, too, think the macbook represents an exceptional value. it does everything i need, and not once do i ever wish i had a macbook pro. it's cheaper, and the design is fresh; i tired of the macbook pro's (powerbook's) design years ago.

SeaFox
Dec 4, 2006, 03:59 AM
The new laptop should be even thinner and weigh less than the current models in the MacBook Pro line-up.

Wow, imagine that. A 12" laptop weighing less than a 15" version of the same laptop. :rolleyes:

Ultra thin? They're already only 1" thick! :eek:
I wonder how you would make it any smaller and still be able to put in an optical drive or hard drive?

pmackin
Dec 4, 2006, 04:02 AM
This Macworld is gonna be packed ... with leopard , the true video ipod's and the iphones now a 12' macbook pro ! bring it on apple !
woo hoo !

dcv
Dec 4, 2006, 04:04 AM
I'd love one as an upgrade to my BabyBook™. The fugly plastic MacBook with its weird-looking keyboard and glossy screen is *not* a replacement. If this becomes reality I hope there's a backlit keyboard as with the larger MacBook Pros and the option to choose screen type.

fraggle
Dec 4, 2006, 04:09 AM
why waste weight and size and costs on an optical drive?

I don't think that the optical drive will have an impact on the size. The keyboard and screen are the limiting factors here and the heat output of the chips will force a certain thickness to allow for at least some cooling. Of course there would be a choice of putting more battery capacity in but that would weigh more then the optical drive...

Analog Kid
Dec 4, 2006, 04:09 AM
It's almost unfair that all this new stuff's poised to come out right after the holiday season...I keep on thinking I'm going to buy something, but the little voice in my head says:

Wait for Macworld
You'll probably have to wait a little longer than that-- a lot of times things are announced and then don't actually ship for a couple months.

I think Apple makes their big releases after the holidays to re-energize their sales after the buying season. Might also have something to do with a desire to ramp production slowly rather than take the huge demand immediately.

billystlyes
Dec 4, 2006, 04:22 AM
Compared to what? The entry level, IMHO, is an exceptional value.:confused:

The phrase "you get what you pay for" comes to mind.;)

I don't even want to go there. I'll end up sounding like a troll.:eek:

Zimmy
Dec 4, 2006, 04:25 AM
Oh man oh man... this is perfect, bring on Macworld. was planning to get a blackbook, but this would make an even better replacement to my 12" powerbook..

if this is true... iam gonna be sooo glad i waited

Zim

Josias
Dec 4, 2006, 04:31 AM
Allright, if we get this at MacWorld, my bankaccount is buttraped in 3 seconds:

12" MBP:
$1699
2.16 GHz Merom
1 GB RAM (1x1 GB, up to 3 GB)
Ati Radeon X1600 128 MB GDDR3
12.1" widescreen (1440x900, all screens will be bumped a notch because of Leopard)
1" thin (no thinner, perhpas 0.9", but if it's a MB Pro, it gotta have a good optical drive)
6x DVD+/-RW DL drive
iSight + FrontRow
2xUSB
1xFireWire400 and 1xFireWire800
Duallink DVI (to support new hi res. cinema displays)
Fullsize backlit keyboard
Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and AirPort Extreme 2 (with N)
MagSafe and magnetic latch
6 hour battery
120 GB 5.400 rpm. HDD
4.4 pounds (2 kg)
Optical audio in/out
Gbit ethernet...

New hi res. cinema displays with iSights
20" - 1920x1200, and the two other with bumbed res. too (23" will be 24")

iPhone

Allright:
12" MBP with 2 GB RAM and 160 GB HDD= $1999
20" Cinema Display= $699
iPhone= $299

Total= $3k...:D

doraemonkey
Dec 4, 2006, 04:34 AM
I finally just upgraded the memory of my 12" PowerBook to 1.25GB and have had nary a sight of the beachball since. It's really a new lease of life and gives me pause before an upgrade. Not that one of these 12" MBPs don't sound very attractive, though!

Ah that is good to hear, I have 768MB in my 12" and I have been hesitant about buying a 1Mb DIMM to just throw out the 512 that is already in there. So it does make a difference... that might be enough to let me continue for a few more years with this thing.... that and the fact that I don't have the dough to throw out on a new one. This one is portable enough, and I am not looking at HD movies on it.

Jon'sLightBulbs
Dec 4, 2006, 04:36 AM
I finally just upgraded the memory of my 12" PowerBook to 1.25GB and have had nary a sight of the beachball since. It's really a new lease of life and gives me pause before an upgrade. Not that one of these 12" MBPs don't sound very attractive, though!

How much ram did you have installed prior to the upgrade? I'm getting that beachball a whole bunch on my 12in wtih 768mb!

Piarco
Dec 4, 2006, 04:39 AM
I'd love one as an upgrade to my BabyBook™. The fugly plastic MacBook with its weird-looking keyboard and glossy screen is *not* a replacement. If this becomes reality I hope there's a backlit keyboard as with the larger MacBook Pros and the option to choose screen type.

Bad dcv - you just made my MacBook cry! Fugly indeed.... *pats MacBook*

But I'd be all over this like a case of the.... um, what I mean to say is that I'd be fighting my way to the front of the queue for a 12" WS MBP. It would be the perfect partner for my DSLR when on holiday doing my photo thang.

And depending on HDD capacity, I'd be quite happy without an optical drive. I'd get an iMac for work at home...

dcv
Dec 4, 2006, 04:54 AM
Bad dcv - you just made my MacBook cry! Fugly indeed.... *pats MacBook*

But I'd be all over this like a case of the.... um, what I mean to say is that I'd be fighting my way to the front of the queue for a 12" WS MBP. It would be the perfect partner for my DSLR when on holiday doing my photo thang.

And depending on HDD capacity, I'd be quite happy without an optical drive. I'd get an iMac for work at home...

Awwww sorry.

But I've already reserved my place at the front of the queue. :p

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 05:03 AM
I would love to have a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro for under $1500. The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

otoh, the black macbook rev b that I've just got is much better in terms of build quality than the 12" powerbook (rev c) that it replaces.

Rev B hardware rules! :)

In all seriousness though I'd be very wary of any Rev A hardware from Apple after this years problems.

Piarco
Dec 4, 2006, 05:04 AM
Awwww sorry.

But I've already reserved my place at the front of the queue. :p

Oooooo... fighting talk! Bring it on, princess :p :D

You wouldn't want me to hurt The Red Boots would ya? I keed!

But that place will be mine.... oh yes.... it will be mine...

12" MBP:
$1699
2.16 GHz Merom
1 GB RAM (1x1 GB, up to 3 GB)
Ati Radeon X1600 128 MB GDDR3
12.1" widescreen (1440x900, all screens will be bumped a notch because of Leopard)
1" thin (no thinner, perhpas 0.9", but if it's a MB Pro, it gotta have a good optical drive)
6x DVD+/-RW DL drive
iSight + FrontRow
2xUSB
1xFireWire400 and 1xFireWire800
Duallink DVI (to support new hi res. cinema displays)
Fullsize backlit keyboard
Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and AirPort Extreme 2 (with N)
MagSafe and magnetic latch
6 hour battery
120 GB 5.400 rpm. HDD
4.4 pounds (2 kg)
Optical audio in/out
Gbit ethernet...


Not asking for much are you! :P

If it has a C2D Processor in the 1.5-2.0ghz range with 4MB on chip and a dedicated GPU with the same build of a MBP, then that's enought for me. I'm sure the HDD will start at the 120GB mark as the BlackBook does, so the upgrade option to 160GB will be a must also. Optical audio in/out will be standard as it is on the MB. I'm not too fussed on the backlite keyboard - its nice and all, but I haven't missed it since moving to a MB. But I don't think there is a chance in hell of shoehorning in an X1600 - it'll be a less powerful/power hungry GPU, much in the same way of the difference between the PB12" and PB15" GPU's. And a 1440x900 display? On a 12" screen that'd be nigh on unuseable - I'll be happy with the MB's native res. And I still think that 6hrs on a MBP of any kind is a pipe dream at the moment...

clifflui
Dec 4, 2006, 05:06 AM
I have an iBook 12" when I first restarted to use macs two years ago. Its time to replace it with a more powerful portable now that macs are soooo good :rolleyes:

mutantteenager
Dec 4, 2006, 05:19 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macscoop/MacOSXRumors claims (http://www.macscoop.com/articles/2006/11/17/sources-confirm-plans-for-a-smaller-ultra-thin-form-factored-macbook-pro) that Apple is finishing development on a 12" MacBook Pro described as "ultra-thin

If it's got a proper matt screen, and a proper graphics card, Apple, you can finally have my money. The MacBook should die a painful death.
:)

Josias
Dec 4, 2006, 05:19 AM
Not asking for much are you! :P

Remember that Leopard will have resolution independence, which will make it very useable.;)

True, it might be an X1400, but definitely 128 MB. It doesn't really affect anything but the price which clockspeed it has, so I think 2.16 GHz is a good bet, however, considering it, Apples lineup is perfect right now, 13-15-17. Just like they don't make a 19" laptop, neither do I think they will make 11/12".:)

pennae
Dec 4, 2006, 05:24 AM
arghhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!

i just bought a 15" MBP because there is no 12"PB replacement - i will spew if this is true.

Sigh. Me too. I'd just consoled myself to the fact that I have to go bigger... at least the first gen versions of a notebook aren't always the best?

*twitch*

skunk
Dec 4, 2006, 05:24 AM
The MacBook should die a painful death.
:)I've got no complaints about my MacBook. I'd rather it didn't die a painful death, really.

Piarco
Dec 4, 2006, 05:26 AM
Remember that Leopard will have resolution independence, which will make it very useable.;)

I forgot about that! That is a case for the higher res, but I'm still not convinced that Apple will do it...

True, it might be an X1400, but definitely 128 MB. It doesn't really affect anything but the price which clockspeed it has, so I think 2.16 GHz is a good bet, however, considering it, Apples lineup is perfect right now, 13-15-17. Just like they don't make a 19" laptop, neither do I think they will make 11/12".:)

An X1400 sounds more like it. Agreed on the 128MB. And we'll see on the processor. I'd personally take the 1.5ghz 4MB cache C2D if it does yield a 6hrs runtime...

Dagless
Dec 4, 2006, 05:34 AM
PLEASE let this be true. I was thinking about getting a MacBook to replace my ageing 12" PowerBook. But I would buy a new smaller PowerBook in an instant.

Tymmz
Dec 4, 2006, 05:34 AM
very sweet,

but probably wouldn't go for it. I have already my 12'' PB.


I just hope we see a great MWSF '07 and that more or less all the rumours become facts (iPhone, 12'' MBP, video iPod).

NewSc2
Dec 4, 2006, 05:43 AM
dual layer dvd rw + core2duo + ultra thin + dedicated graphics = super super hot computer? let's hope not

wozzlewoozle
Dec 4, 2006, 05:49 AM
This will be fantastic (if it happens). Although my 12" PB is still quite capable (expect another year min). I have to admit that I was not looking forward to haveing to purchase a MacBook or move up to (what in comparison seems) the huge 15" MacBook Pro.

Here's hoping...

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 05:49 AM
dual layer dvd rw + core2duo + ultra thin + dedicated graphics = super super hot computer? let's hope not

I guess we'll see soon if the rumours are correct. I wouldn't want to be one of the first people to buy one of these things put it that way.

This potentially could be the computer I've been banging on about for apple to build for a while, I hope they get it right.

mhar4
Dec 4, 2006, 05:52 AM
How much ram did you have installed prior to the upgrade? I'm getting that beachball a whole bunch on my 12in wtih 768mb!

I had only 512MB. But, maybe there are other issues. Safari especially needs to be kept very clean or else it really chokes the system. Try running Onyx and running all the maintenance scripts and cleaning all the caches. And deleting the bookmark icons, that really helps, for some reason.

mkrishnan
Dec 4, 2006, 06:19 AM
Here's hoping for sub-four-pounds...

I don't know about the specs Josias posted...my real excitement is hoping that the rumor of a flash HD is true. In which case the specs will look a lot different...the HD would probably be 20G or less in size, but the weight would probably be quite a lot less.... I dunno. I'm excited though, for the continuing rumors. I have to figure out what to replace my iBook with some day!

topgun072003
Dec 4, 2006, 06:21 AM
This is great...They're going to attract a lot of the costumers that were getting the MB's strictly for their increased portability. Now you have the power and portability.

mcorange
Dec 4, 2006, 06:33 AM
Nobody sayd it wouldn't be a tablet. It seems to me, saying ultra-thin, 12 inch, widescreen....

It seems to me that if it's gonna loose a lot of weight and keep it's ghz's, then morph into a tablet computer (perhaps not even with a turnable screen...?), touch-screen...it'd be an ideal tool for graphic designers and animators!! :D

But this is wild fantasy, likely? No. Not at all.

MacBook ReallyCoolTabletCompute. I called it first.

hadlock
Dec 4, 2006, 06:33 AM
It seems more likely that they'd roll a 12" Macbook with the true video ipod in to one device. Give it a swivel screen like those tablet laptops and those various video ipod interface patents all of a sudden make a whole lot more sense.

Call it a MacBook Mini :D

mkrishnan
Dec 4, 2006, 06:37 AM
It seems to me that if it's gonna loose a lot of weight and keep it's ghz's, then morph into a tablet computer (perhaps not even with a turnable screen...?)

I somehow have a feeling Apple will not be open to doing the turnable screen, and that if they do a tablet, it will either have a BT keyboard or none at all... or maybe that laser one? :D

mutantteenager
Dec 4, 2006, 06:44 AM
I've got no complaints about my MacBook. I'd rather it didn't die a painful death, really.

Sorry, I didn't mean yours in particular. I just can't believe that Apple don't make a professional small laptop, everyone else does! I really do hate shared graphics, and gloss screens tho!:mad:

alfogator
Dec 4, 2006, 06:44 AM
Sweet! If the screen will swing all the way back around so it can be used like a tablet I'll definitely be ordering one. Why the heck are they putting an optical drive in what would otherwise be an ultra-portable? Just put a few USB ports on it and people who want an optical drive can plug one in every year or two when they need legacy media! I don't want to pay the price for the drive, and I certainly don't want the extra weight and space for something I won't use that often.

I have a sony ultraportable, with an integrated optical drive. I don't need to take anything else with me, not even the power adapter unless it's a very long journey. I'd hate to have to lug around a bag full of add-ons and the integrated drive allows me to watch dvd movies on train/airplane while travelling.
As you can see there are people that see great value in a integrated optical drive and there are so many around that doesn't seem like adding one compromises size/portability that much.
It all depends on your intended use and which category of users Apple will be targeting at... and I have my fingers crossed ;)

Vanilla
Dec 4, 2006, 06:45 AM
Where I work we are currently piloting the use of MBP's with parallels software running XP and are receiving largely positive feedback. However the one big negative is the form factor for a number of our execs who are out on the the road a lot.

The standard corporate laptop is the IBM X60, which is a great, great machine. Extremely light, compact, solid build, battery runs forever and stays cool. Because of this we are finding that the execs invariably work with the MBP at home and transfer stuff onto the X60 when they need to travel.

If Apple came out with a compact, light, stylish, laptop with great battery stamina, that could also run windows etc. I personally feel they would make great inroads into the corporate exec road warrior market.
Vanilla

EGT
Dec 4, 2006, 06:47 AM
Awesomeness. Whenever I see a little 12" Powerbook in the wild I can't help but think a similar sized MBP is the way to go. :D A little C2D powerhouse!

Roller
Dec 4, 2006, 06:49 AM
For me, weight trumps size, although they're obviously related. I need a portable that I can carry around all day without putting a dent in my shoulder - 3 or 4 pounds is the sweet spot. The lower limit of size is mostly dictated by the size of the screen and keyboard.

If that means no optical drive, that's OK, as long as Apple offers a USB drive that's reasonably priced, for software installs and restores. The challenge will be finding a battery that provides long life and low weight. I have a 15" PowerBook and it's a challenge getting more than a couple of hours out of it, which means carrying an extra battery or two on cross-country flights.

mduser63
Dec 4, 2006, 06:49 AM
I'm finally getting close to replacing my 12" PB, and have been basically just planning to wait until after Macworld so that I can at least get iLife '07 with my new Mac. I was planning to get a MacBook, but I'd love a 12" MBP. I really prefer a small portable, so this is good news if true.

AndrewWx
Dec 4, 2006, 06:49 AM
This is exactly the machine my wife wants. I had sort of given up on it. Well lets get boring old Christmas out of the way and onto macworld!

Cheers

l4t13
Dec 4, 2006, 06:53 AM
This is exactly the machine my wife wants. I had sort of given up on it. Well lets get boring old Christmas out of the way and onto macworld!

Cheers

sounds like a great macworld even though i just got a blackbook.

Chaszmyr
Dec 4, 2006, 07:01 AM
I call BS too. If Apple made a 12'' notebook, it would either not be full features (and better not be called Pro) or it would not be "ultra-thin." If you'll recall, the 12'' PowerBook was thicker than the 15'' and 17''. Moreover, i think if they were to release a super small widescreen notebook, it would have an 11'' widescreen, to match the width of the keyboard. The only way i see them coming out with a thin 12'' thats anything like the one that's described is if it is a tablet... and I don't see apple introducing a tablet in early 2007.

super_kev
Dec 4, 2006, 07:08 AM
New 12" MBP or not, all I want is a 12/13" Macbook/MBP w/dedicated gfx card. When Apple can offer something other than the integrated graphics with the Macbook, then I'm picking one up.

vendettabass
Dec 4, 2006, 07:23 AM
can we predict any GBP prices... I'll be hitting up a Blackbook after xmas, but this would be interesting if it were priced close to the Blackbook price...

Gareth

Plymouthbreezer
Dec 4, 2006, 07:25 AM
I would love to have a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro for under $1500. The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

A tasteless claim I must say. *Types on a MacBook*

Okay, so I'm using a brandy new MB 2GHz with a Gig of RAM... Buuuut, nonetheless, it seems pretty snappy compared with any G5 (obviously) and most definitely years ahead of any old PPC based Apple laptop. Even the base model's hardly a bad product.

dnedved
Dec 4, 2006, 07:26 AM
I have a sony ultraportable, with an integrated optical drive. I don't need to take anything else with me, not even the power adapter unless it's a very long journey. I'd hate to have to lug around a bag full of add-ons and the integrated drive allows me to watch dvd movies on train/airplane while travelling.
As you can see there are people that see great value in a integrated optical drive and there are so many around that doesn't seem like adding one compromises size/portability that much.
It all depends on your intended use and which category of users Apple will be targeting at... and I have my fingers crossed ;)

I've had 3 PeeCee ultraportables without optical or floppy drives and never missed them at all. They were my only computers at the time. If you want to watch movies on your laptop, may I recommend MacTheRipper + Handbrake + VLC? Why would you want the further drain on your battery of spinning a little plastic disc at several hundred RPM and shining a laser through it?!? And to have to carry and keep up with the little scratch-prone coasters? My MBP 12" can't watch a full 2 hour DVD on battery but has no problem at all with a 2 hour avi file on the hard drive.

You will already have the following method for getting data in or out of the computer:

- gigabit ethernet
- 802.11n wireless
- bluetooth
- USB
- firewire (maybe)

Do you really need optical media as well? A USB thumbdrive is cheap, much more reliable than optical, and substantially faster. Optical media is legacy hardware. Apple should lead the way with ditching it, especially in smaller machines where it matters the most. You can always plug in USB optical if you need it in a machine that doesn't have it, by making it internal you take away the customer's option.

Battery life has always been the factor limiting the usefulness of a small laptops. I'd much rather the space used for the optical be used for battery. A few extra ounces of weight for an extra few hours? Sign me up!

NC MacGuy
Dec 4, 2006, 07:27 AM
Count me in too. Waited to replace my 12" Rev.A w. a "Pro" but was let down when Apple stated no more 12". Held out and purchased a MB, Rev.A, Black - loaded up. After 3 months with RSS, heat issues, case problems and premature trackpad wear I exchanged it for a MBP. The MBP is okay but the smaller, lighter and oh so much easier to use on a commuter jet is what I really wanted.

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 07:29 AM
I would love to have a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro for under $1500. The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

A) Entry-level MacBook is NOT a horrible computer! :mad: It's the best overall computer I've ever used, and I used to have a 15" AluBook for work.

B) Keep dreaming about the $1500 price point :rolleyes: This is a PRO computer. My guess is $1799 or even higher. Even at that price, though, it would be a "game-changing" computer, in that equivalent laptops from Sony cost about $2200 and up (provided that the 12" MBP is under 4 lbs. so it's considered in the same ultra-portable class as Sony's offerings).

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 07:42 AM
I call BS too. If Apple made a 12'' notebook, it would either not be full features (and better not be called Pro) or it would not be "ultra-thin." If you'll recall, the 12'' PowerBook was thicker than the 15'' and 17''. Moreover, i think if they were to release a super small widescreen notebook, it would have an 11'' widescreen, to match the width of the keyboard. The only way i see them coming out with a thin 12'' thats anything like the one that's described is if it is a tablet... and I don't see apple introducing a tablet in early 2007.

What do you base any of your assertions on? Based on PowerBook designs that are YEARS old? Have you seen Sony's latest models, based on NEWER technology? Let me run them down for you:

Sony Vaio SZ series: 13.3" with optical drive and 2 PC card slots - 3.7 lbs. and 1.3" thick

Sony Vaio TX series: 11.1" with optical drive and 1 PC card slot - 2.7 lbs. and 1.1" thick

If Sony can do the above, why can't Apple use its PROVEN expertise at compact design to make something even better. Here's what I think is possible:

Apple MacBookPro 12" widescreen, with optical drive and 1 express card slot, 3.5 lbs and 1" thick

I don't know how much more ultra-thin you can get than 1". That is ultra-thin. I just went laptop shopping with my girlfriend and she was *amazed* how the MacBooks were thinner than anything she was looking at on the PC side (she ended up getting a Sony Vaio SZ). Even the Sony Vaio SZ series is considered to be ultraslim at 1.3".

EDIT: Since the rumor is that the 12" will be even slimmer than the 15" or 17", I expect it to be only nominally slimmer (like 0.95 inches maybe). I think the "wow" factor will be in its being about 3.5 lbs, which would make it 2 lbs. less than the 15" and a full 1 lb. less than the original 12" PowerBook.

Nakki
Dec 4, 2006, 07:48 AM
If Sony can do it, then Apple should be able to do the same!

here's what would be a perfect laptop, except it doesn't fun OS X.
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/SZ/index.html

Very light, but yet powerfull enough. And it's not very expensive. Good graphics card, which can be switched off for better battery life.

I would like to have a 3,7 lbs. or 1,7 kg laptop when I carry it around which I could then connect to a bigger screen when I come home.
This Sony would be perfect for that.
The 13" MB is not very light, and not powerfull enough. MBP is very nice, but quite big to carry around every day. :(

Edit:
Hmm.. seems like I was writing almost the same stuff with the above post at the same time.
I also think that 1,3" is thin enough. Weight is much more important. And 12" in wide screen might not be very practical. It starts to get too narrow.

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 07:54 AM
The 13" MB is not very light, and not powerfull enough.


I'd be extremely surprised if any new small Apple notebook is more powerful that the macbook. It might be smaller and have better battery life etc but more powerful. Unlikely.

I'd say there's an outside chance of a GeForce Go 7400 in there but if it's 11/12" in size then it's likely to go with GMA950 graphics life the aforementioned Sony TX.

Spanky Deluxe
Dec 4, 2006, 07:58 AM
Wow, this would be awesome. Finally a true successor to the 12" PowerBook. I much prefer the smaller size of the 12" iBook and PowerBook over the 13" MacBooks, a slim lined, wide screened 12" MBP would be a dream. Shame I couldn't afford it though.

sixstorm
Dec 4, 2006, 07:59 AM
I would love to see another 12" laptop from Apple. Even though I chose a 14" iBook over the 12" PB (mainly just cuz of screen size), I do somewhat regret not going the other way. Maybe in 07, these 12" puppies will be released and dropped in price and/or upgrade which means I might be able to purchase one!!!

On a side note, I would also like dedicated graphics and a standard of 1GB of RAM, no excuses. I refuse to work on a Mac with less than 1 GB.

FDX
Dec 4, 2006, 07:59 AM
This just might make me want to give up my 366, indigo ibook, then again I am just getting my ibook broke in.;)

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 08:03 AM
If Sony can do it, then Apple should be able to do the same!

here's what would be a perfect laptop, except it doesn't fun OS X.
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/SZ/index.html

Very light, but yet powerfull enough. And it's not very expensive. Good graphics card, which can be switched off for better battery life.

I would like to have a 3,7 lbs. or 1,7 kg laptop when I carry it around which I could then connect to a bigger screen when I come home.
This Sony would be perfect for that.
The 13" MB is not very light, and not powerfull enough. MBP is very nice, but quite big to carry around every day. :(

Edit:
Hmm.. seems like I was writing almost the same stuff with the above post at the same time.
I also think that 1,3" is thin enough. Weight is much more important. And 12" in wide screen might not be very practical. It starts to get too narrow.

That is an awfully nice computer - my girlfriend just got one a couple weeks ago. However, since it doesn't have OS X as you point out, then my 13" MB is still the superior computer, IMO. For example, her computer is already infected with spyware that she can't get rid of :rolleyes:

I disagree with you about 12" being too narrow, though. I used to have a 12" MacBook and it never seemed too narrow for me. And that was at 1024x768 resolution. I expect the 12" MBP will be fairly pixel-dense at 1280x800.

P.S. I agree with you about weight being more important than thickness. But I still maintain Apple will be able to launch a 12" MBP at 1" thick and 3.5 lbs.

P.P.S. I also agree that a sub-4 lb. Apple laptop is the perfect computer, but unfortunately this perfect computer is also out of my price range :o I'll be sticking with my trusty entry-level MacBook for the foreseeable future

P.P.P.S. I hope Apple eventually drops the MB prices by $100 across the board, for folks like me that just want the lowest-cost Apple laptop available :o

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 08:07 AM
I'd be extremely surprised if any new small Apple notebook is more powerful that the macbook. It might be smaller and have better battery life etc but more powerful. Unlikely.

I'd say there's an outside chance of a GeForce Go 7400 in there but if it's 11/12" in size then it's likely to go with GMA950 graphics life the aforementioned Sony TX.

Nah, I think they'll find a way to put a dedicated graphics car in there. I think this will be a no-compromise model with dedicated graphics AND an Express Card slot. In other words, a full-fledged member of the MBP family. Heck, it may even have an illuminated keyboard.

Chef Medeski
Dec 4, 2006, 08:11 AM
I'm cautious. I have a 12" PB right now and I love it. Perfect size. Itd be nice if it was a little lighter.... but no complaints really except its PPC. Yet, I'd be wary of this laptop in just a widescreen. Any screen real estate less than a 12" PB I think becomes rather useless. I say 12.5" or something. The Macbook is just barely too big for me. But, if they go for 11" it would just be a toy, not a real work animal. 12" I think is really pushing the envelope in terms of work ability. If they go 12" WS, I don't think I'll get it even though I want an Intel 12" PB real bad.

Features that needs to go in:
-Express PCI
-Magsafe (done)
-Webcam (of course)
-Illuminated keyboard (I always felt bad that my PB didn't have that. I mean honestly thats so cool!)
-Robson Technology (I'm sorry but I need battery life.)
-8 HR battery life. (You heard me.... I need battery life.)
-Graphics Card (It would be nice.... but.... I think a toggle to turn it off like in the Sony would be excellent. Again I need the battery life)
-No way they can go thinner with a Slot loading drive. If you see the Sonys have razer thin optical drives but they are not slot loading. If it saves 1 lb. I say ditch the drive. Honestly I find myself using it maybe once or twice a week. I probably use it the most for when I play video games, which could easily be resolved with leaving my drive at home. Only other time is when I use it to rip CDs..... But, if they make it worthwile in weight reduction and battery life. CDs... what CDs...

freebooter
Dec 4, 2006, 08:16 AM
a) I want to believe, so I'll wait until Macworld.
b)Thank you tooth decay. Were it not for a dental appointment, I may very well have bought a MacBook today. Thank you root canal, thank you.
c) I'm now the very pleased owner of a golden tooth--love it! :D

dollystereo
Dec 4, 2006, 08:19 AM
Please, dont put a crappy intel GMA 950 on that baby.
Ati X1600 woould be nice, or even a GeForce 7300 Go.
Just my 2 cents.

junkster
Dec 4, 2006, 08:22 AM
The MB and MBP lines are pretty distinct right now, with the big differences being screen size and GPU. A 12" MBP would muddy the waters. Maybe it will have a completely different name (MacBook _____) ?

Chef Medeski
Dec 4, 2006, 08:29 AM
The MB and MBP lines are pretty distinct right now, with the big differences being screen size and GPU. A 12" MBP would muddy the waters. Maybe it will have a completely different name (MacBook _____) ?
The real difference is money. The difference between a 2.0Ghz Macbook and a 2.16 Ghz Macbook pro besides screen and video card, with same HD and RAM is $600. And then the 2.33Ghz is somethin like $250 with same HD and RAM just for a better video card and processor... ridiculous :rolleyes:

iSee
Dec 4, 2006, 08:38 AM
This would be great! I hope this is true (although I guess I'm not personally in the market for a new Mac anytime soon, so I don't know why this is getting me so excited).

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 08:38 AM
The real difference is money. The difference between a 2.0Ghz Macbook and a 2.16 Ghz Macbook pro besides screen and video card, with same HD and RAM is $600. And then the 2.33Ghz is somethin like $250 with same HD and RAM just for a better video card and processor... ridiculous :rolleyes:

...and I expect this difference to largely remain. I predict the MBs will drop $100, to $999, $1199, and $1399. And I expect the 12" MBP to launch at $1799 minimum. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the 12" was still $1999, since customers are willing to pay a *premium* for the lighter size and weight.

Nastard
Dec 4, 2006, 08:43 AM
This is exactly what I want to replace my 12". I may trade my wife for one.

How much do you want for her if this is just a rumor?

haleyvan
Dec 4, 2006, 08:49 AM
what is everyone hating on the macbooks for? it is the best computer ive ever used and fast as crap. i dont get it.

mkrishnan
Dec 4, 2006, 08:52 AM
what is everyone hating on the macbooks for? it is the best computer ive ever used and fast as crap. i dont get it.

I think it's wonderful. It's just too big for my desire....

dextertangocci
Dec 4, 2006, 08:54 AM
Looks like a pretty wild Macworld coming up

Is there going to be a live stream of MW?

I hope so:)

CommodityFetish
Dec 4, 2006, 09:03 AM
This would be sweet. I do hope they drop the optical drive... I rarely use mine, especially when on the go. Here's why I think they might: iTunes Movie Store. ;)

Apple doesn't want us to buy any more DVDs. As someone else said, DVDs are about to become legacy, and battery life is much better watching movies from HD than a DVD. Burning disks / software installation can wait until you get to the office where you have an external burner drive. Or take it with you if you must.

Seems the trade off of more battery, hard drive, graphics card, less heat, less weight, less thickness, by sacrificing the optical drive, (while getting your entertainment from iTunes store...) Why wouldn't they?

You're going to need a fat HD to carry around your movie library!

Or why wouldn't they have two models one with optical drive, and another without? Customer choice anyone? Not holding my breath on that :rolleyes:

Also, I wonder if they waited to roll this one out this long b/c of C2D's heat reduction...?

deputy_doofy
Dec 4, 2006, 09:05 AM
I love this idea. After a couple weeks of having my new 15" C2D MBP, I can already feel the difference in carrying the 2 around. Don't get me wrong. The 15" isn't heavy by any stretch of the imagination, but it is somehow "clumsier."

Of course, with all the problems I've had with the C2D already, I think I'll wait until a Rev. D MBP 12". :p

cherrypop
Dec 4, 2006, 09:05 AM
I loved all of my 12-inch PowerBooks for their perfect mix of functionality and portability, but more speed was needed. This addresses that issue.

I'd also like to see higher resolution and a case NOT made from aluminum.

This is just awesome news. Go Apple!

SMM
Dec 4, 2006, 09:07 AM
Drat - I need these in the $1200 range. The specs for the entry-level Mini would be fine, except for the memory - get rid of the 512 everywhere. The standard s/b 1GB - especially when there are only 2 slots.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 09:08 AM
Would this still be part of the macbook pro line?

New name?

Macbook mini. I called it first.

No you didn't (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3092763#post3092763). I've seen it before then even.

Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

No you didn't (http://lowendmac.com/bookrev/06/0630.html).

*rolls eyes*

...some people...

-Clive

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 09:08 AM
what is everyone hating on the macbooks for? it is the best computer ive ever used and fast as crap. i dont get it.

Me neither.

I'm glad I don't have an aluminium finish getting in the way of my wifi reception, denting and scratching easily, corroding due to sweat contact, showing up grubby finger marks (yes more than the blackbook) etc etc

(I've had two powerbooks previous to my lovely new black macbook).

I keep saying this but the build on this rev b macbook blows the build on my powerbooks away. It's also much thinner than the 12" powerbook, which positively chunky in comparison.

thejadedmonkey
Dec 4, 2006, 09:09 AM
what is everyone hating on the macbooks for? it is the best computer ive ever used and fast as crap. i dont get it.

No integrated graphics, the screen bezel is too large, it just doesn't "feel" right to me.

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 09:11 AM
*rolls eyes*

...some people...


Hey mr. rolley eyes....I guess the smiley didn't work in implying that these names have been bandied about forever. That was the point.

Edit: they have been used around these parts for way before your references btw.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 09:12 AM
Drat - I need these in the $1200 range...

And I need a MacPro in the $1500 range. It ain't happenin'. Just not realistic. A $1200 MBP would not just canabalize MacBooks, it would KILL them.

If you're only willing to spend 1200, you'll have to come to terms with the less-capable MacBook.

-Clive

jholzner
Dec 4, 2006, 09:12 AM
I would love to have a 12" or 13" MacBook Pro for under $1500. The truth be told, the entry-level MacBook is a horrible computer.

I suppose but I don't see the point of your post. This will not compete with the entry level macbook.

rubberduck007
Dec 4, 2006, 09:14 AM
Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

I hear Kate Moss is doing the advertising? MacBook® Anorexic

jholzner
Dec 4, 2006, 09:16 AM
As someone else said, DVDs are about to become legacy,

The only people DVDs are about to become legacy for are about ten people on these boards. Everyone else on the planet is still going to be buying them and will for a long time to come.

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 09:18 AM
And I need a MacPro in the $1500 range. It ain't happenin'. Just not realistic. A $1200 MBP would not just canabalize MacBooks, it would KILL them.

If you're only willing to spend 1200, you'll have to come to terms with the less-capable MacBook.


Absolutely spot on.

If this is to be a pro machine please Apple make it exactly that (which means have a price tag and feature set to match). For all it's neatness the 12" powerbook was only a refined ibook at heart.

rxse7en
Dec 4, 2006, 09:19 AM
I hear Kate Moss is doing the advertising? MacBook® Anorexic

12" BuliMAC
Just can't keep a good computer down®

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 09:20 AM
The only people DVDs are about to become legacy for are about ten people on these boards. Everyone else on the planet is still going to be buying them and will for a long time to come.


I'm not sure on this. All physical media (for the distibution of content at least) is going to "become legacy" at some point over the next few years.

Remember when people scoffed at machines with no floppy?

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 09:21 AM
i get as excited about macworld as the next guy. ok, maybe that depends on who the next guy is...but...

it has happened before and it will happen again. every existing rumor makes it to the "definately this macworld" stage. then, when apple releases some software and hardware updates before steve's "one more thing", people get upset that this "one more thing" does include all of their pet rumors.

do we really think steve is gonna unveil:
iLife 07
full Leopard preview
bumped ipods
iphone
true video ipod
mactablet
ultra thin macbook
iTV

all of that??? really?? i think not.
im not saying i know what they will release or show us. but im pretty confident that it will not be all of the above. perhaps a couple of these rumored products will be rolled into one (i.e. video ipod/phone/tablet) but even then there is not room for more that "ONE more thing."

i could be wrong. but if i am, it will definately be a departure from macworld's history.

grace and peace,
kyle

Rocketman
Dec 4, 2006, 09:22 AM
I just hope that if many of these rumors are true and "steal the thunder" from Steve, he STILL says "one more thing" at MWSF07, since no matter the rumors, the realization is always a rush.

Rocketman

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 09:25 AM
I'm not sure on this. All physical media (for the distibution of content at least) is going to "become legacy" at some point over the next few years.

Remember when people scoffed at machines with no floppy?

im on the fence on this one. i still use optical media. and would think it difficult to do without. but i thought the same about floppies until i got my first iMac (rev b bondi).

turns out, i didnt need all those "oh so important" little plastic squares. only recently did i finally bite the bullet and dump all my old floppies! sometimes it takes someone else forcing our hand for us to give up old ways of doing things. kinda like mom and dad throwing away the trusty blanket...the kid can't imagine life without that comfort...but it's really ok.

time will tell.

grace and peace,
kyle

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 09:26 AM
The only people DVDs are about to become legacy for are about ten people on these boards. Everyone else on the planet is still going to be buying them and will for a long time to come.

I foresee "a long time" being 5 years. BluRay and HD DVD both have very powerful backers and they will force it down our throats whether we like it or not. They'll start with the ignorant shoppers who don't realize they don't need it if all they're doing is casually watching movies. Then once there's about 50% market saturation, DVD production will shrivel and die.

DVDs will be yesterday's news before you even know it.

-Clive

Piarco
Dec 4, 2006, 09:26 AM
do we really think steve is gonna unveil:
iLife 07
full Leopard preview
bumped ipods
iphone
true video ipod
mactablet
ultra thin macbook
iTV

iLife 07 - probably
Leopard Preview - more than likely
Bumped iPods - nope. They've been done fairly recently.
iPhone - we'll see... but I have a doubt about it being released in Jan. I think it'll be its own "Special Event" when it does happen. Because it's kinda a big deal.
True Video iPod - another "Special Event" IMHO.
MacTablet - seems to be quiet(ish) on the rumour mill for this. So I'd say probably a small chance of seeing anything in the short term. So no for Jan.
Ultra Thin MBP - well obviously we're hoping so in this thread...but...
iTV - well Steve did say early 2007 (or specifically Jan?)

Isn't the January event typically about software and hardware updates/new products rather than iPods? If so the iTV may well be yet another "Special Event" and would be well tied into an True Video iPod release...

jholzner
Dec 4, 2006, 09:27 AM
I'm not sure on this. All physical media (for the distibution of content at least) is going to "become legacy" at some point over the next few years.

Remember when people scoffed at machines with no floppy?

True but I don't think that is a fair comparison. The floppy was for comptuers only. DVDs are for movies that don't require a computer at all.

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 09:37 AM
iLife 07 - probably
Leopard Preview - more than likely
Bumped iPods - nope. They've been done fairly recently.
iPhone - we'll see... but I have a doubt about it being released in Jan. I think it'll be its own "Special Event" when it does happen. Because it's kinda a big deal.
True Video iPod - another "Special Event" IMHO.
MacTablet - seems to be quiet(ish) on the rumour mill for this. So I'd say probably a small chance of seeing anything in the short term. So no for Jan.
Ultra Thin MBP - well obviously we're hoping so in this thread...but...
iTV - well Steve did say early 2007 (or specifically Jan?)

Isn't the January event typically about software and hardware updates/new products rather than iPods? If so the iTV may well be yet another "Special Event" and would be well tied into an True Video iPod release...


right. my point (and i think we're agreeing here) is that to expect to have all these things at a macworld is setting one's self up for a big dissapointment. and there are, indeed, folks here who are expecting (or at least hoping) for all of these things.

~kyle

cecildk9999
Dec 4, 2006, 09:38 AM
i get as excited about macworld as the next guy. ok, maybe that depends on who the next guy is...but...

it has happened before and it will happen again. every existing rumor makes it to the "definately this macworld" stage. then, when apple releases some software and hardware updates before steve's "one more thing", people get upset that this "one more thing" does include all of their pet rumors.

do we really think steve is gonna unveil:
iLife 07
full Leopard preview
bumped ipods
iphone
true video ipod
mactablet
ultra thin macbook
iTV

all of that??? really?? i think not.

Hmm...I say iLife, iTV, and some more leopard to be previewed at Macworld. The iPhone will be the 'one more thing,' and I'm guessing we'll see this portable unveiled at a special event in February or March. Probably no new iPods until spring/summer at the earliest. But that's just my thoughts. ::shrug::

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 09:40 AM
do we really think steve is gonna unveil:
iLife 07
full Leopard preview
bumped ipods
iphone
true video ipod
mactablet
ultra thin macbook
iTV


iLife 07 and iWork 07: obligatory.
Leopard Preview: not obligatory. I see no problem with a debut event or month-before preview or something. Not a MWSF necessity.
bumped iPods/video iPod: I think this item is an either-or with the PhonePod. Releasing both simultaneously wouldn't make much sense so due to a lot of recent fire, I'm putting my money on...
PhonePod: If Apple doesn't release a music-capable phone soon, they will miss the boat... or will REALLY need a fantastic product to catch up.
Tablet: No. Won't happen. This maket is sufficiently eaten by the smart-PhonePod/MacBook Mini double-team... At least at this time.
"iTV" (TelePort): I think this is where the money is. This is near obligatory. Then again, an Apple special event is also acceptable.

So to sum things up, I think it'll be iWork, iLife, (maybe a small mention of Leopard), TelePort and OneMoreThing: PhonePod (surprise surprise, eh?)

*whew* Now I officially have my MWSF predictions out of the way. On to more relevant business.

Hmm...I say iLife, iTV, and some more leopard to be previewed at Macworld. The iPhone will be the 'one more thing,' and I'm guessing we'll see this portable unveiled at a special event in February or March. Probably no new iPods until spring/summer at the earliest. But that's just my thoughts. ::shrug::

damn you, you clever bastard. You beat me out of the gate on that one. Nice predictions though, ;)

-Clive

Rocketman
Dec 4, 2006, 09:40 AM
Maybe Apple willl have a version with optical drive and a version with RAID and a bigger battery?

I guess I am on the side of folks who say optical external since ultra-portable is all about weight and width vertically of the screen to fit on narrow spaced from your body. A lighted keyboard would be mandatory indeed.

I mainly hope it addresses more than 3GB of memory since the market for this device certainly includes folks running flavors of Windows in virtualization.

However, neither I nor my company is a prospect for this machine. MacBooks have a big piece due to low price point and high capabilities, and MacBook Pros to a lesser extent. Both are currently memory crippled.

Rocketman

Nakki
Dec 4, 2006, 09:41 AM
T

I disagree with you about 12" being too narrow, though. I used to have a 12" MacBook and it never seemed too narrow for me. And that was at 1024x768 resolution. I expect the 12" MBP will be fairly pixel-dense at 1280x800.



I think you mean you used to have a 12" Powerbook. I might be wrong, but I thought it was 4:3?
I'm not sure if narrow is the right word for it, but what I mean is the height of the screen. 12" in 4:3 is just fine, but in wide screen format it might get quite low. 13" is still usable, although you need to scroll up and down quite a bit already. I know the difference is not actually that much, but I hope the screen size will be usable.

twoodcc
Dec 4, 2006, 09:42 AM
wow, this would be great for Apple. get that marketshare up!

but i don't know, i'll believe it when i see it, but hopefully it's true

fraggle
Dec 4, 2006, 09:43 AM
The 13" MB is not very light, and not powerfull enough.

Ok, it does have the shared memory GPU but CPU wise it is a very fast machine. I have a 17" PB (1.67 GHz or something) and a MB runs circles around it!

Chosenbydestiny
Dec 4, 2006, 09:46 AM
I call
MacBook Inviso

People have been dishing these titles conceptually way before this post started, heh.

failsafe1
Dec 4, 2006, 09:48 AM
Oh no! I am going to my local Apple store tomorrow to buy a Macbook Pro. What should I do? Just kidding. Love the 12 form factor but would never use one for my main laptop. I would love to have one to complement the Macbook Pro I will have in one more day!! :D

LastZion
Dec 4, 2006, 09:49 AM
Ultra thin notebook would be great. Need to replace my wifes ibook that was just stolen :(

freebooter
Dec 4, 2006, 09:50 AM
I want compact size and quality build. Macbook doesn't quite do it for me.

rxse7en
Dec 4, 2006, 10:06 AM
12" BuliMAC
Just can't keep a good computer down®

*crickets*

Yvan256
Dec 4, 2006, 10:07 AM
12" or 13" still doesn't make it "ultra-portable" or "Macbook mini/nano".

The thickness of a laptop doesn't make it "ultra-portable" either. I'd rather have a laptop that's 1/4" thicker if it meant getting a real ultra-portable, i.e. drop the optical drive, drop the full-size keyboard.

Bring me a real "Macbook nano", a bit bigger than a Nintendo DS Lite (5.25 x 4.00 x 1.00"), then we'll be talking about "ultra-portable". Isn't Intel supposed to have ultra-low-power processors by now? Put one or two USB 2.0 ports, maybe 1 FireWire 400, Wi-Fi, maybe BlueTooth 2.0, 1GB of RAM directly on the motherboard along with an ultra-low-power, shared RAM integrated graphics processor hooked up to a 1024x600 5.5" touch-screen display (for the mouse/virtual keyboard) and we're good to go. And while we're at it, make it a small tablet. At that size, it'd be small enough to replace a PDA. Add a docking station with a DVI/VGA port and you've really got a "portable desktop solution". :D

In the meantime, I'm planning to use my Nintendo DS Lite with Opera DS, though I'm still waiting for Opera DS to be sold in Canada... I'm tempted to order one from europe since it can be set in a number of languages (including english and french).

Edit: got my Opera DS cart today. It may not be a "Macbook mini", but IMO it's the next best thing for "portable web computing".

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 10:09 AM
I want compact size and quality build. Macbook doesn't quite do it for me.

Really? Is it something that more RAM or a bigger HD can't solve? (USE NEWEGG.COM.) The difference between a 2GHz MB and a 2.33 GHz MBP is 16%... not that much.

Video card is the other concern... Beyond that, the only thing you'd be missing is the ambient light sensor, back-lit keyboard, and aluminum finish.

Perhaps reconsidering is in order before you drop $600 for those "premium" features.

-Clive

iJawn108
Dec 4, 2006, 10:13 AM
Unless they are updating the entire macbook proline up i highly highly doubt it.

Josias
Dec 4, 2006, 10:18 AM
i get as excited about macworld as the next guy. ok, maybe that depends on who the next guy is...but...

it has happened before and it will happen again. every existing rumor makes it to the "definately this macworld" stage. then, when apple releases some software and hardware updates before steve's "one more thing", people get upset that this "one more thing" does include all of their pet rumors.

do we really think steve is gonna unveil:
iLife 07
full Leopard preview
bumped ipods
iphone
true video ipod
mactablet
ultra thin macbook
iTV

all of that??? really?? i think not.
im not saying i know what they will release or show us. but im pretty confident that it will not be all of the above. perhaps a couple of these rumored products will be rolled into one (i.e. video ipod/phone/tablet) but even then there is not room for more that "ONE more thing."

i could be wrong. but if i am, it will definately be a departure from macworld's history.

grace and peace,
kyle

You forgot AirPort Extreme 2 with 802.11n:D

I think you can count out the video iPod and tablet. iPhone and Leopard are pretty sure, and AX2 is definitely. Perhaps a small MBP and iTV. iLife/iWork '07 are sure too.;)

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 10:20 AM
what is everyone hating on the macbooks for? it is the best computer ive ever used and fast as crap. i dont get it.

I second wholeheartedly.

Not only is it the MacBook the best computer I've ever used, but it's also the best laptop value currently available, IMO. This was reaffirmed when I helped my girlfriend shop for a laptop a couple of weeks ago. Most of the laptops she looked at were the same price and weight (e.g. the Sony Vaio C series at 13.3", 5.1 lbs, and $1349). She ended up settling on the Sony Vaio SZ260 for $1649, which is much lighter at 3.8 lbs. and was only available at that price because it's the older Core Duo model (the newer Core 2 Duo version is $2200).

And guess what? After owning the Vaio for just 2 weeks, she already has spyware she can't figure out how to get rid of. When you factor in OS X and incomparable design (1" thin, MagSafe, etc.), the MacBooks are a *far* better value than the PC competition, IMO.

failsafe1
Dec 4, 2006, 10:22 AM
Don't know about it being the best. But the only thing keeping me from a Macbook is the video card. Nothing else. Form factor alone is so tempting!!

weg
Dec 4, 2006, 10:24 AM
Macbook Nano. I called that first. :)

Macbook shuffle.
No screen ;-)

dmaxdmax
Dec 4, 2006, 10:26 AM
The (other) best reason to dump the optical drive would be to buy an external LightScribe.

YMMV

macjay
Dec 4, 2006, 10:28 AM
12" BuliMAC
Just can't keep a good computer down®

*crickets*

I laughed. Very clever. :)

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 10:32 AM
I second wholeheartedly.

Not only is it the MacBook the best computer I've ever used, but it's also the best laptop value currently available, IMO. This was reaffirmed when I helped my girlfriend shop for a laptop a couple of weeks ago.


We've just done the same. The PC that work bought my partner (13.3" fujitsu-siemens amelio S) cost the same as my black macbook. They are worlds apart in spec, design and build.

I'm super impressed with the build quality on this macbook (Rev B, that's important). Something I didn't expect to be saying tbh.

As for WWDC:

Software: iLife/iWork 07, Leopard preview
Hardware: Video iPod, iPhone and iTV

I don't think this rumour about 12" MBP currently holds water. I could be wrong as the L7400 C2Ds are out in Jan but all other signs point toward May/June for a machine such as this (Robson, 1.6GHz low voltage, x3000, update to case on all other macbook pros).

Don't forget a 12" mbp will show the older mbps for what they are: revamped powerbooks. They all need to have magnetic latches, user replacable HDs etc etc. This won't happen until Santa Rosa.

spicyapple
Dec 4, 2006, 10:33 AM
Apple should do away with the optical drive. I hardly use the Superdrive in my 12" PowerBook, and would prefer not to have it if I already have a tower computer from which I transfer files via wi-fi. An optional portable optical drive should be released by Apple for those still require the optical drive. :)

nagromme
Dec 4, 2006, 10:33 AM
A 12" widescreen could be even smaller front-to-back then the old 12", at similar width. Make it 1152x768 or 1280x854 or so, and thinner, and my credit card is standing by!

Fuchal
Dec 4, 2006, 10:34 AM
I foresee "a long time" being 5 years. BluRay and HD DVD both have very powerful backers and they will force it down our throats whether we like it or not. They'll start with the ignorant shoppers who don't realize they don't need it if all they're doing is casually watching movies. Then once there's about 50% market saturation, DVD production will shrivel and die.

DVDs will be yesterday's news before you even know it.

-Clive


The movie industry would love for this to happen and will do anything to make it happen, but not because they are newer or better technologies. The absolute #1 reason they want customers to move to HD DVD and BluRay because of the copy protection that they provide, since today's DVDs essentially provide none. The fact that they also contain HD content + other features is a bonus to them because it enables them to resell the same movies they already sold on DVDs to the same customers again in the new format.

Josias
Dec 4, 2006, 10:35 AM
The (other) best reason to dump the optical drive would be to buy an external LightScribe.

YMMV

Why LightScribe? Yes, great concept, doesn't work. Have you seen the discs? The print disappears after few weeks, and you can only print B&W. Anybody with respect for themselves will use thier printer, and a proper label.

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 10:36 AM
I'm not sure on this. All physical media (for the distibution of content at least) is going to "become legacy" at some point over the next few years.

Remember when people scoffed at machines with no floppy?

Totally different scenario. At the time that floppies were "phased out", floppies were used for 2 things:

1) storing documents
2) packaged software (but by then what LITTLE software was available on floppies spanned, like 10 floppies at least)

So basically floppies were almost exclusively for storing documents since at least the mid-90s.

Optical media, on the other hand, is used for the following:

1) Retail music sales (still abot 90% of music sales, and will probably still be at 50% five years from now)
2) Retail movie sales/rentals (probably 99% of movie sales/rentals, and will probably still be at least 50% five years from now)
3) Retail software sales (not sure what percentage of purchased sofware is downloaded vs. shrink-wrapped, but I would expect a large percentage of software sold will still be of the boxed shrink-wrapped variety even 5 years from now)
4) Document storage/backup

Of those 3, only for everyday document storage/backup might optical drives be replaced by flash-based media. For retail sales of music, movies, and software, I just don't see physical media being phased out as soon as you think.

miniConvert
Dec 4, 2006, 10:36 AM
A professional ultraportable is exactly what Apple needs. This will be my first Mac laptop :) :) :) Fingers crossed.

gallagb
Dec 4, 2006, 10:37 AM
No you didn't (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3092763#post3092763). I've seen it before then even.



No you didn't (http://lowendmac.com/bookrev/06/0630.html).

*rolls eyes*

...some people...

-Clive

can i be first to call it "myBook"?

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 10:37 AM
Why LightScribe? Yes, great concept, doesn't work. Have you seen the discs? The print disappears after few weeks, and you can only print B&W. Anybody with respect for themselves will use thier printer, and a proper label.

Not to mention that burning a simple 1-line title takes about 2 minutes. And burning a full-disk image would probably take at least a 1/2 hour. It's definitely a technology not ready for prime time.

fussball
Dec 4, 2006, 10:38 AM
This is exactly the Mac I have been waiting for. I won't buy a new Mac until something smaller than the 13.3" MB is released. PLEASE happen!

Piarco
Dec 4, 2006, 10:38 AM
As for WWDC:

Software: iLife/iWork 07, Leopard preview
Hardware: Video iPod, iPhone and iTV


Seeing as the video chip for the new(er) iPod Video's have just met delays (Q2/3 instead of Q1 '07) I doubt we'd see that at WWDC - and, like the iPhone, hasn't nearly every recent major iPod release been subject of a Special Event?

I'm sticking to my guns on this one - the iPhone and Full Screen iPod will be released at a special event. iTV could be a go-er though... and if I'm right about the iPOd and iPhone, then we may well see one more piece of hardware released...

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 10:38 AM
The movie industry would love for this to happen and will do anything to make it happen, but not because they are newer or better technologies. The absolute #1 reason they want customers to move to HD DVD and BluRay because of the copy protection that they provide, since today's DVDs essentially provide none. The fact that they also contain HD content + other features is a bonus to them because it enables them to resell the same movies they already sold on DVDs to the same customers again in the new format.

Apple will kill all this. It's moving to digital distribution over networks. Something that affords similar levels of DRM if necessary.

Physical media is on the way out. That goes for CDs, DVDs, Vinyl and, when someone invents a decent electronic book device, books too.

The younger generation aren't as hung up about having physical copies of media like us old fogeys are. I mean look at the ludicrously huge sales of ring tones for mobile phones.

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 10:39 AM
can i be first to call it "myBook"?

Go right ahead, since just 1 year ago Jobs made it clear that all Apple computers MUST have "Mac" in the name :rolleyes:

(hence the dropping of the "PowerBook" and "PowerMac" brands)

rxse7en
Dec 4, 2006, 10:40 AM
I laughed. Very clever. :)
Thank you! I'll be appearing this Wednesday at the CompUSA in Vegas. :D

B

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 10:40 AM
Seeing as the video chip for the new(er) iPod Video's have just met delays (Q2/3 instead of Q1 '07) I doubt we'd see that at WWDC - and, like the iPhone, hasn't nearly every recent major iPod release been subject of a Special Event?

I'm sticking to my guns on this one - the iPhone and Full Screen iPod will be released at a special event. iTV could be a go-er though... and if I'm right about the iPOd and iPhone, then we may well see one more piece of hardware released...

I didn't know that about the video chip delay. OK, that changes things slightly.

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 10:42 AM
can i be first to call it "myBook"?

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-External-Interface-WDG1C5000N/dp/B000EXTXSI/sr=8-1/qid=1165250434/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9384431-4977623?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

emotion
Dec 4, 2006, 10:44 AM
For retail sales of music, movies, and software, I just don't see physical media being phased out as soon as you think.

iTunes has already killed the CD.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 10:46 AM
can i be first to call it "myBook"?

If you're talking about an external HardDrive (http://www.wdmybook.com/) disguised as a book, yes you may. ;)

Man, I feel like the Grinch who stole Mac Product Name Speculation. Maybe a shiny new MBP would make my heart grow two sizes today.

-Clive

Damn. Emotion beat me to it. ;) I spent too much time trying to figure out what I was the Grinch of ;)

dalvin200
Dec 4, 2006, 10:49 AM
personally, i wouldnt go for a 12" notebook..

from previous experience, they just can't do the job.. the screen is just too small.. i know i know.. many people would kill to have 12 inches.. :D

anyway, the 13.3" macbook is spot on for me.. if they made the mpb with that size screen and the new "rumoured" form factor (ultra slim), then yeah.. sounds like a winner..

but also, how much thinner do you want to get? mpb is already an inch thin..

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 10:50 AM
...floppies were used for 2 things:

[...]

2) packaged software (but by then what LITTLE software was available on floppies spanned, like 10 floppies at least)

Remember that System 7.5.5 came on, like, 7 floppies? I'm pretty sure they're all still residing in my basement...

Y'know, if I wanted to, I *could* install them on my Graphite iMac DV SE... with external Floppy Disk Drive. Man... I thought I was so high-tech.

-Clive

jholzner
Dec 4, 2006, 10:50 AM
iTunes has already killed the CD.

Really? I was at Best Buy the other day and they had a whole bunch of them. Maybe they were on clearance. :)

kjs862
Dec 4, 2006, 10:51 AM
12" widescreen? Oy! I hope it's pixel dense... My biggest complaint about the old 12" is that 1024x768 just isn't enough to work with.

I second this

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 10:53 AM
iTunes has already killed the CD.

You know, it really has. I was thining about buying a CD the other day because I wanted to avoid DRM protection via iTS, but instead of paying $14.99 at Best Buy, I think, I'll iTS it for $10 and burn/re-rip on a $0.05 CD.

Is that illegal, BTW?

-Clive

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 10:54 AM
Really? I was at Best Buy the other day and they had a whole bunch of them. Maybe they were on clearance. :)

Best Buy is for people who know nothing about technology.

-Clive

pimentoLoaf
Dec 4, 2006, 10:57 AM
At least I'll have an upgrade path for my 2005 iBook (2004 design) when it pops out of warranty in mid-2008.

I use mine while travelling as an executive-sized PDA, with MS Office & Filemaker Pro. Had to remove most of iLife (kept 'iPhoto) & AppleWorks, added iWork & Photoshop Elements, StickyBrain, and a bunch of others.

Great tool, and widescreen would be a plus.

fblack
Dec 4, 2006, 10:59 AM
This is great news. I have a few friends who have pondered purchasing a macbook, but felt the graphics too weak in the consumer version and the pros too big for my friends ultra-light style of portability.

I have some doubts if its going to be a 12". I can see a 13" that they might be able to use similar stuffings :) from the macbook for economy. All in just a thinner housing?

SMM
Dec 4, 2006, 11:00 AM
And I need a MacPro in the $1500 range. It ain't happenin'. Just not realistic. A $1200 MBP would not just canabalize MacBooks, it would KILL them.

If you're only willing to spend 1200, you'll have to come to terms with the less-capable MacBook.

-Clive

Look Clive, they already sell what I am talking about for $1099.00. I just want it in the smaller footprint. Do not see why that cannot be accomplished and 1GB for ~$1200.00! The rest of you post makes even less sense.

TheSpaz
Dec 4, 2006, 11:01 AM
If this is true... hopefully these 'Books will have the same quality screen as the MacBook instead of the MacBook Pro 15" Screen. It doesn't matter though because I am extremely happy with my decision to get a Mac Pro and a 20" Apple Cinema Display. Woohoo!

Jasonbot
Dec 4, 2006, 11:05 AM
Woo7, vv()0t! Yay! Teh G5 powerbook is finally coming out.. Or @least I hope it has a G5 processor:D if not I won't waste my time. And 3.5 inch diskette drive would be tops! Ideal for storing those files under 1.44 megabytes inm size! And with it's 12" screen I might be able to finally videos taken on my cellular telephone communicator at full resolution!

Ok, I'm done now...

Fredou51
Dec 4, 2006, 11:10 AM
1) Retail music sales (still abot 90% of music sales, and will probably still be at 50% five years from now)
People buying this kind of laptop are definitely buying music from the iTunes Store. And if you still use cd then you could just rip them on your desktop and transfer them through wifi. I didn't see anyone carrying music cd with their laptop during the last few years.


2) Retail movie sales/rentals (probably 99% of movie sales/rentals, and will probably still be at least 50% five years from now)

That's probably the biggest point to keep the optical drive but Steve Jobs is pushing the movie store and it's with this kind of laptop people really see the advantage of buying online.


3) Retail software sales (not sure what percentage of purchased sofware is downloaded vs. shrink-wrapped, but I would expect a large percentage of software sold will still be of the boxed shrink-wrapped variety even 5 years from now)

Installing software happens not even once a year, you could just hook up the ultra-portable to your desktop by firewire (400 or maybe even 800) and install it through target mode (Apple would probably create a good looking way of doing this).

4) Document storage/backup

USB Flash drive, iPod, etc.

Frederic

cloudnine
Dec 4, 2006, 11:12 AM
why waste weight and size and costs on an optical drive?

Think about the company we're talking about here. Do you really think Apple, master of iMovie, iDVD, the iPod and iTunes, is going to skimp out on an optical drive? It would pretty much render iLife useless. Not to mention, Apple's pretty awesome at keeping things consistent. There are the MBP's, 15" and 17", the iMacs, 17", 20", 24", and the MB's, 13"... they're not about to release some random 12" notebook with no optical drive... in fact, I'd be REALLY surprised if they did something such as NAND Flash for startup purposes.

I, personally, have been waiting for this... as much as I've wanted to cave in and get a 15" MBP, I just can't part with my 12" G4PB. It's the best thing I've ever had in way of portability, and I have a 23" cinema display for when I need the size... I really, really, really hope this rumor is true... if this comes out at MacWorld, I'll be there with my checkbook in hand... hehe :D

alexf
Dec 4, 2006, 11:12 AM
I forgot about that! That is a case for the higher res, but I'm still not convinced that Apple will do it...

If they market it as a "pro" machine, I will bet that it will be high res. Otherwise I'm not so sure...

JobsRules
Dec 4, 2006, 11:13 AM
Anyone else not give a toss about the optical drive? I mean, I can go weeks on my iBook without using an optical drive, and even then it's my fast firewire LaCie DVD burner.

Make it small, make it light, and ditch the optical drive. Apple/third party can always make an ultraslim DVD drive for those who really need one on the go.

Leoff
Dec 4, 2006, 11:13 AM
Look Clive, they already sell what I am talking about for $1099.00. I just want it in the smaller footprint. Do not see why that cannot be accomplished and 1GB for ~$1200.00! The rest of you post makes even less sense.

They do sell what you're talking about for $1099. It's called the MacBook. NOT a Pro version, a consumer version.

The rumors listed above talk about a 12" MacBookPRO. Better graphics, better quality case, pretty much better everything. What you're talking about CAN be accomplished for under $1500 if they decided to go the consumer route, which it doesn't sound like they are.

alexf
Dec 4, 2006, 11:14 AM
If this is true... hopefully these 'Books will have the same quality screen as the MacBook instead of the MacBook Pro 15" Screen. It doesn't matter though because I am extremely happy with my decision to get a Mac Pro and a 20" Apple Cinema Display. Woohoo!

Are you saying that the MacBook has a better quality screen than the MacBook Pro?

I'm assuming that you're referring to the glossy... :confused:

Mgkwho
Dec 4, 2006, 11:15 AM
I still think the market isn't ready for a tablet.

The whole tablet PC thing only stuck to niche markets, a problem Apple will have to overcome; their marketshare might be key to this.

I would think Apple would turn the iPod into a mini-control device (i.e. connect to your computer and control iTV wirelessly, etc.) before launching a larger product.

-=|Mgkwho

cloudnine
Dec 4, 2006, 11:15 AM
This Macworld is gonna be packed ... with leopard , the true video ipod's and the iphones now a 12' macbook pro ! bring it on apple !
woo hoo !

Well, Leopard, iPhones and maybe the 12" MBP anyway... apparently the true video ipods aren't in the running for MacWorld anymore... which is fine with me, it gives me time to save up after buying the 12" MBP ;) hehe.

failsafe1
Dec 4, 2006, 11:15 AM
Funny how we start debating specs and usefulness of this machine before it even appears. I know I would not want to use one for my primary machine as stated earlier but would enjoy having one to travel with. Getting on a plane with one of these would be great. Being on assignment in another part of the world with less gear and stuff would be great. So in response to this won't be a pro machine it would if I used it in conjunction with my other machines!:D

Leoff
Dec 4, 2006, 11:15 AM
Anyone else not give a toss about the optical drive? I mean, I can go weeks on my iBook without using an optical drive, and even then it's my fast firewire LaCie DVD burner.

Make it small, make it light, and ditch the optical drive. Apple/third party can always make an ultraslim DVD drive for those who really need one on the go.

So you're going to have to purchase a separate drive just to be able to load your software?

dmaxdmax
Dec 4, 2006, 11:17 AM
Why LightScribe? Yes, great concept, doesn't work. Have you seen the discs? The print disappears after few weeks, and you can only print B&W. Anybody with respect for themselves will use thier printer, and a proper label.

Oops - Obviously I haven't done my research though I would have before handing over the Amex.

I've heard horror stories about labels causing problems with the disc. Is this a thing of the past? I'd be more than happy to use my printer and a proper label.

Recommendations?

Thx

failsafe1
Dec 4, 2006, 11:23 AM
Can't dump the optical drive. That is part of what I need when I am out and about with my Powerbook (soon to be MBP). I have to back up photos and make DVD copies of those photos when I am on assignment. I need to leave the photos with the folks at those locations. Gotta have a burner. Don't want to carry more stuff like the external drive. That goes back to might as well carry my 15 around. That's what I do now.

prostuff1
Dec 4, 2006, 11:25 AM
Please, please, please be true!!!!!!

I am not buying a computer really soon (will be getting one around June or so) but this would be great!!! I have been wanting a small version of the MBP since the beginning and i think there is a market for one. My sis is going to be getting my 12in iBook (which I love the size and wait of) and i want to replace it with something close in size. I have my iMac for heavier stuff all i need in a portable is durability (aluminum case), portability (small size), and good battery life.

Please be true

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 11:26 AM
Installing software happens not even once a year, you could just hook up the ultra-portable to your desktop by firewire (400 or maybe even 800) and install it through target mode

i may be misremembering...but didn't they kill firewire target mode? i still have an old 12" PB that can still do it. but i remember reading somewhere that that is no longer a feature. hope im wrong. i love target mode.

~kyle

conmango
Dec 4, 2006, 11:28 AM
Come on...someone had to say it..

Ultra-Portable Blu-Ray DVD Reader/Recorder

Now that sounds more like Apple.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 11:31 AM
Can't dump the optical drive. That is part of what I need when I am out and about with my Powerbook (soon to be MBP). I have to back up photos and make DVD copies of those photos when I am on assignment. I need to leave the photos with the folks at those locations. Gotta have a burner. Don't want to carry more stuff like the external drive. That goes back to might as well carry my 15 around. That's what I do now.

In all likelyhood, they would have to cut down proc. speed a bit to ensure proper cooling. DVD burners really do not help the issue (quickly-moving parts plus laser diodes = heat). If they want a device that will have a respectable battery life, they will have to cut one of these two things, if not both... a move which might be detrimental to your regular activities. I wouldn't put money on a 12" MBP fitting your needs.

-Clive

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 11:33 AM
People buying this kind of laptop are definitely buying music from the iTunes Store. And if you still use cd then you could just rip them on your desktop and transfer them through wifi. I didn't see anyone carrying music cd with their laptop during the last few years.


That's probably the biggest point to keep the optical drive but Steve Jobs is pushing the movie store and it's with this kind of laptop people really see the advantage of buying online.


Installing software happens not even once a year, you could just hook up the ultra-portable to your desktop by firewire (400 or maybe even 800) and install it through target mode (Apple would probably create a good looking way of doing this).

USB Flash drive, iPod, etc.

Frederic

I notice you mention twice in your comments that you don't need the optical drive on a laptop because you can just connect the optical drive to the desktop. I think this is very misguided. I haven't used a desktop either personally or professionally for 6 or 7 years now. I don't WANT 2 computers. I want a single Mac to be my primary computer.

So if anything, I could see Apple shipping the Mac shipping with a slim USB optical drive, the way that the first ultraslim Sony Vaios did. It CANNOT be an optional accessory, though. If Apple goes optical-less, every 12" MBP *must* ship with an external optical drive. Can you imagine when a user has to reinstall OS X because of some problem, except that - oops - they didn't bother to add an external optical drive to their order? I have to imagine that Apple WILL NOT let that scenario occur.

So I will still be mildly shocked if the 12" MBP does not have a built-in optical drive, but I will be floored if Apple makes an external optical drive optional.

P.S. a possible alternative has been suggested above: maybe the optical drive can actually be modular so it can be swapped out for another battery or a nearly weightless placeholder. So you would have 3 options as a user: 1) more functionality (with optical drive), 2) longer battery life (with extra battery), or 3) lighter weight (with placeholder). If Apple did this they should extend the design to all 3 MBP sizes, though. Even thogh 0.5 lb. doesn't make as much of a difference on the larger MBPs, any user can appreciate extra battery life.

BillyShears
Dec 4, 2006, 11:33 AM
MWSF:

iLife/iWork 07 - Almost certainly based on past events.
Leopard Preview - Yes, I don't think there'd be media interest enough for a special event. All those "top secret" features need to be displayed.
Bumped iPods - No, unless you count iPhone.
MacTablet - No, I haven't heard anything about a MacTablet lately and see no reason why it would exist.
Ultra-Thin MBP - Yes, and I think the MBP case may be due for an update some time soon, based solely on how long we've had it for. Of course I can't think of much to change other than the hard drive being accessible.

Special Event (generally music-or-movie-related):

iPhone
True Video iPod - If it actually exists and isn't the iPhone
iTV
Airport Ludicrous


So I'm only expect iLife/iWork, Leopard, and maybe the new MBPs at MacWorld. Of course I could be completely off. I could see the iPhone being done at MWSF because it's no so media-centered and would make for a pretty great "one more thing", and there's huge expectations for it.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 11:34 AM
Come on...someone had to say it..

Ultra-Portable Blu-Ray DVD Reader/Recorder

Now that sounds more like Apple.

er... may I disagree?

Why would Apple want to encourage the purchase of physical DVDs when you will soon (knock on wood) be able to d/l a plethora of movie content on the iTS? A movie player, maybe... but it'd probably be a video iPod.

-Clive

janstett
Dec 4, 2006, 11:36 AM
This is what I've wanted from the beginning, a Mac ultraportable. I love my 15" MacBook Pro and won't give it up, but from the beginning I wanted something in the range of my Thinkpad X60 -- ultra thin, ultra light (< 3 pounds) with long battery life.

I can't wait to see what they come up with.

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 11:37 AM
Are you saying that the MacBook has a better quality screen than the MacBook Pro?

I'm assuming that you're referring to the glossy... :confused:

Most consumers will find the glossy screens more appealing

Matte screens have more accurate colors, though, which is important when actually doing PROfessional work (e.g. print design).

So I don't think it would be accurate to say that glossy screens are "better" - it's just a preference.

RichP
Dec 4, 2006, 11:42 AM
Hmmm..I could picture this machine with a low power dual-core, Robson NAND drive for some speed, and an iPod 80GB drive, keeping it VERY slim. However, the optical drive becomes the issue. The MBP cant get much thinner, and if you decrease the footprint, then the keyboard is OVER the optical drive, which means you are getting thicker than an inch.

Honestly though, I DONT see apple getting rid of the optical drive. Not their style to have add-on stuff.

janstett
Dec 4, 2006, 11:51 AM
The standard corporate laptop is the IBM X60, which is a great, great machine. Extremely light, compact, solid build, battery runs forever and stays cool. Because of this we are finding that the execs invariably work with the MBP at home and transfer stuff onto the X60 when they need to travel.

I have to agree. I have an X60 (and an X40 before that) and they're excellent machines, definitely a benchmark Apple should be shooting for. Take note of the great keyboard too. My problem with these machines is that as a power user, I do use the media slice a lot (for extra battery, 2nd drive, etc) which sort of defeats the purpose, but it's always ready to go solo and at less than 3 pounds a joy to carry. I really don't/shouldn't need the media slice but I need to be prepared.

Fredou51
Dec 4, 2006, 11:56 AM
I notice you mention twice in your comments that you don't need the optical drive on a laptop because you can just connect the optical drive to the desktop. I think this is very misguided. I haven't used a desktop either personally or professionally for 6 or 7 years now. I don't WANT 2 computers. I want a single Mac to be my primary computer.


That's a point for some people although I personally couldn't imagine having an ultra-portable as my only computer. I guess Apple should go with two models then. One about 1" thick with optical drive. And another one about 1/2" thick (maybe a bit more) without optical drive that could work with a desktop at home through firewire (for installing software and such).

Frederic

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 11:57 AM
Hmmm..I could picture this machine with a low power dual-core, Robson NAND drive for some speed, and an iPod 80GB drive, keeping it VERY slim. However, the optical drive becomes the issue. The MBP cant get much thinner, and if you decrease the footprint, then the keyboard is OVER the optical drive, which means you are getting thicker than an inch.

You can't use iPod HardDrives to boot and run an OS on. I mean, you *can* but they die VERY easily after extended use as a boot-device. Until something more reliable comes around (or flash capacity become cost-effective in large amounts), the 2.5" Laptop HDs will have to do.

Honestly though, I DONT see apple getting rid of the optical drive. Not their style to have add-on stuff.

What's wrong with a USB Flash device? Even a 4GB one (approx. single-layer DVD capacity) is around $50, PLUS they're small, PLUS they're easy to carry around, PLUS they're instant Read/Write (limited only by the speed of your USB port). Compare that to a DVD. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do sans optical bay is watch physical media. You could, just as easily, rip a few DVDs and encode them as h.248 and watch near-DVD quality movies from a device the size of your thumb. To save yourself the hassle, you could set up an Automator Script to automatically rip and encode your DVDs when you insert them.

Think outside the consumer box. ;)

-Clive

TheBobcat
Dec 4, 2006, 12:04 PM
This whole thing smells of WWDC '06 when everyone expected 15 new products, and of course TEH MEROM MBP!!!!

The real preview of Leopard. Check.
The new iLife/iWork. Check.
The 12 Inch Laptop. Maybe. I think an ultra-portable notebook is somewhere on the way, but who knows what form it would come in.
I would even venture to guess that Apple may announce its new AirPort running on 802.11n, but that might have to wait for WWDC.

iPhone... this one's hard to call. I think it would be prudent for Apple to at least address the issue, otherwise, theres going to be a lot of investors tired of playing games and rumor-milling.

New iPods? Nah, maybe in the beginning of the summer, at a special event.

janstett
Dec 4, 2006, 12:06 PM
Or why wouldn't they have two models one with optical drive, and another without? Customer choice anyone? Not holding my breath on that :rolleyes:

This is another area where Apple would do well to study IBM/Lenovo. Now, granted, the ultrathin X series leaves the drive bays in the media slice, but they have a modular architecture called Ultrabay Slim. For my X60, I have three removable devices that pop in -- an optical drive, a 2nd battery, and a 2nd hard disk. The drive bays are about 11 mm tall. Versatility, compact size, and the ability to change to meet your needs AFTER it leaves the factory.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 12:06 PM
iPhone... this one's hard to call.

Pun intended?

-Clive

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 12:13 PM
So I have a question for alls-yalls to chew on.

Why would Apple go through all the hassle of making a 12" widscreen MBP when they already have a blueprint for a 13" widescreen MB? From a logistics standpoint, I think it would be much, much easier to tap the same supply of 13" widescreen MB LCDs than to add another supply to the production inventory. It would STILL reduce the footprint considerably, plus would have the bells and whistles of a MBP. HD, RAM, video card, back-lit keyboard, the like.

Now THERE's a machine that would help some people off the fence about a MB or MBP... myself included.

-Clive

LimeiBook86
Dec 4, 2006, 12:14 PM
A new 12" Apple laptop would be wonderful. I've talked to a lot of people like myself who like the MacBook but, they don't want a laptop that big. I'm still using my 867mhz (Rev A) 12" PowerBook and I'll admit it's pretty slow but, it works for mobile chatting and web surfing and even some light Flash and Photoshop work and it's very, very portable. For everything else I use my intel iMac upstairs.

I just hope Apple doesn't skimp on any too-important features. An optical drive is a must of course, and dedicated graphics memory too. I doubt they'd give the 12" a type of PC card/Express slot but I can dream :p. Also if Apple were to create another 12" laptop they'd need to improve the AirPort range, my old Lime iBook gets a better signal than this PowerBook! :eek:

Well, here's hoping. It's about time if you ask me but, let's hope these things aren't super-hot, I bet that's what was keeping these things from coming out. I mean how thin and small can you have these things without them burning a hole in your lap? :p :D If Apple dives into the 12" laptop market again I'll seriously consider getting one. *takes PowerBook battery, RAM, and hard drive off of holiday wish list*

mackiwi
Dec 4, 2006, 12:19 PM
I'm starting to freak out...Hurry up MACWORLD!!

kenstee
Dec 4, 2006, 12:22 PM
One question. If they can't lick the heat problem with the current 15"/17" MBPs why do we expect the heat issue to be any less in a more compact unit? Unless they've made some real leaps in heat management I'd expect these new 12"s to be underpowered vs. larger MBPs.

Either way, having gotten burned (literally) on the Rev A of the 12" PB, I'll be awaiting a Rev B of this one. That said, I'd love one if they are not underpowered and run cool.

TheBobcat
Dec 4, 2006, 12:28 PM
Pun intended?

-Clive

Yes. Thanks for noticing. I debated putting a smiley there. :D

You make a good point for why Apple wouldn't want to add a 12 inch model when they have a 13. You're absolutely right, which makes me think that an ultra portable laptop would either be very, very small in screen size, or a tablet of some kind. Either way I don't really see it coming that quickly.

If anything at all, I find it more likely that there could be a slimmed down 13inch MBP with the trimmings one would expect, as Clive mentioned.

janstett
Dec 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
That's probably the biggest point to keep the optical drive but Steve Jobs is pushing the movie store and it's with this kind of laptop people really see the advantage of buying online.


They just started offerring High Definition movie downloadss on the XBox Live Marketplace. That is what holds me back from buying a movie on ITS and what made me what physical media (which I still do).

This stuff is happenning and faster than expected.

lazyboy922
Dec 4, 2006, 12:34 PM
So I have a question for alls-yalls to chew on.

Why would Apple go through all the hassle of making a 12" widscreen MBP when they already have a blueprint for a 13" widescreen MB? From a logistics standpoint, I think it would be much, much easier to tap the same supply of 13" widescreen MB LCDs than to add another supply to the production inventory. It would STILL reduce the footprint considerably, plus would have the bells and whistles of a MBP. HD, RAM, video card, back-lit keyboard, the like.

Now THERE's a machine that would help some people off the fence about a MB or MBP... myself included.

-Clive


I agree. It seems to make more sense if they made a 13" like the Macbook. Though perhaps they are trying to distinguish the line even futher than just performance. I hope that they go with the magnetic latch on them. I really love that design.

50548
Dec 4, 2006, 12:40 PM
In short words, I WOULD BUY ONE THE DAY IT WAS RELEASED! It's all I've been waiting for...a PowerBook 12" Redux! GO APPLE!

Linito
Dec 4, 2006, 12:45 PM
don't think it will be a 12", more on the lines of a 13.3", but still they needed to put a smaller mb pro :cool:

it would be nice also to see them doing a ~$700 MB for students, not everyone can afford a $1100 portable :(

Leoff
Dec 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
So I have a question for alls-yalls to chew on.

Why would Apple go through all the hassle of making a 12" widscreen MBP when they already have a blueprint for a 13" widescreen MB? From a logistics standpoint, I think it would be much, much easier to tap the same supply of 13" widescreen MB LCDs than to add another supply to the production inventory. It would STILL reduce the footprint considerably, plus would have the bells and whistles of a MBP. HD, RAM, video card, back-lit keyboard, the like.

Now THERE's a machine that would help some people off the fence about a MB or MBP... myself included.

-Clive

Agreed. Do what they did with the iBooks and PowerBooks. They had both models in a 12" version, and I believe the 12" PowerBook did sell well (well enough to continue it's existance for a few years, at least).

While I'd like to see some sort of ultra-portable Apple laptop, I don't think this 12" stuff is gonna fly.

I miss the 2400c

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 12:52 PM
That's a point for some people although I personally couldn't imagine having an ultra-portable as my only computer. I guess Apple should go with two models then. One about 1" thick with optical drive. And another one about 1/2" thick (maybe a bit more) without optical drive that could work with a desktop at home through firewire (for installing software and such).

Frederic

But it's an ultraportable based on weight, not based on screen width. For example, I and many others were perfectly happy with our 12" 4:3 ratio iBooks as our only computers. My mom had no problem with it either (I gave her my iBook G4 since I was upgrading), and she's usually a stickler for having large, readable fonts and such.

To each his hown, I guess, but I don't think Apple markets *any* of its Macs as a "secondary" computer. Each Mac has to stand on its own.

Let me make this point, though: Sony, Dell, IBM, etc. have been making successful optical drive-less laptops at 3 lbs. or less for over 6 years now. Apple has had EVERY opportunity to sell a slim optical-less PowerBook all those years. Yet Apple has CONSISTENTLY determined that optical drive is an indispensable part of the Mac experience. Apple has instead decided to provide the lighest, smallest laptop WITH the constraint that it has an optical drive. Thus no one has yet been able to touch the 15" MBP at 1" thin and 5.6 lbs, or the 17" MBP at 1" think and 6.8 lbs. Apple's 15.4" MBPsare just a smidge heavier than other companies' 14" laptops, and its 17" MBPs are just a smidge heavier than other companies' 15.4" laptops.

Furthermore, Sony has moved AWAY from offering optical-less laptops, as it is now able to offer an 11" at 2.7 lbs and a 13" at 3.8 lbs. I think that Apple will follow the model of Sony circa 2006, not Sony circa 1999. If Apple can get a 12" MacBook down to 3.5 lbs. or so WITH an optical drive, then I don't think they will even entertain the idea of getting rid of it.

Sorry folks, the market is just not ready for an optical-less laptop.

50548
Dec 4, 2006, 12:53 PM
Agreed. Do what they did with the iBooks and PowerBooks. They had both models in a 12" version, and I believe the 12" PowerBook did sell well (well enough to continue it's existance for a few years, at least).

While I'd like to see some sort of ultra-portable Apple laptop, I don't think this 12" stuff is gonna fly.

I miss the 2400c

The point is: people WANT a replacement for the 12" PB of ol'...not just a MB, but a full-featured MBP in a small footprint...and please, no bare-bones, ultralight subnotebooks...we need a REAL yet smaller MBP...that's all.

Optical drive? Check.
Backlit keyboard? Check.
Basic I/O, 12"/13" screen, widescreen? Check.

I am sold if something like that comes out...nothing more, nothing less.

Leave the PowerBook Duos and 2400s in the past...they are not needed.

princealfie
Dec 4, 2006, 12:56 PM
Me want Tablet 12" MBP. Yeahhh....

steebu
Dec 4, 2006, 01:06 PM
I had JUST started looking into final gen 12" Powerbooks last night. I'm so happy to hear this news!

Romulus
Dec 4, 2006, 01:14 PM
I would have gone for it... But already got my MacBook and I am quite happy with it. The 13in screen is really good, and I think 12in widescreen would be quite hard to work with. A 12in worked quite well in the regular 4:3 format allowing enough vertical space. A widescreen does not have enough vertical space with not much to work with.

I would have loved though, what somebody else already said, a 12" with minimum frame on the screen and keyboard, allowing to shave at least 1-2in from the width and depth of the macbook... Oh well, we'll see what will take place with time, who knows...

tjwett
Dec 4, 2006, 01:17 PM
i say bring it on, only leave out the optical drive and replace the HD with a flash drive. i keep my PowerBook purely for the portability and after having it for a year i still haven't put a single disk in the optical drive. and i've never come close to using up any significant amount of hard disk space. i'd happily trade those for a 12 hour battery and 3 pounds of less weight and bulk. make it a TRUE ultra portable and i'll buy one today.

sartinsauce
Dec 4, 2006, 01:26 PM
iTV
Airport Ludicrous


I was under the impression that these two devices might be combined into one. You know, what Airport Express did for music iTV will do for video. With a snazzy software interface via iTunes. I guess there would/should be another base station once the 802.11n is a little closer to being ratified.

I mean, for years people on this site have been asking for an Airport Express that streamed video. That's the iTV. I wonder how many of those people asking for it complained about the iTV when we got a preview? Anyone care to step up and admit it?

sarge
Dec 4, 2006, 01:36 PM
Can't dump the optical drive. That is part of what I need when I am out and about with my Powerbook (soon to be MBP). I have to back up photos and make DVD copies of those photos when I am on assignment. I need to leave the photos with the folks at those locations. Gotta have a burner. Don't want to carry more stuff like the external drive. That goes back to might as well carry my 15 around. That's what I do now.

Exactly right. This is a pro machine and pro's have clients that they must cater to. Besides, when they got rid of the floppy they added a CDburner, so that is a poor example. We will always need some sort of slot, even if it's a CF cardslot and vendors can exchange media this way. When 8gig CF cards are as cheap as a DVD, maybe we'll talk about losing the drive. Until then, leave the options where they are.

Karpfish
Dec 4, 2006, 01:39 PM
If this thing coms out, I will be pissed. I sold my 12" PB in the beginning of the year, and I really miss it. I already own a macbook so i won't be getting this, but the 15" was too big for me.

SC68Cal
Dec 4, 2006, 01:43 PM
heh. MiniMacBook Pro

lmalave
Dec 4, 2006, 01:48 PM
I would have gone for it... But already got my MacBook and I am quite happy with it. The 13in screen is really good, and I think 12in widescreen would be quite hard to work with. A 12in worked quite well in the regular 4:3 format allowing enough vertical space. A widescreen does not have enough vertical space with not much to work with.

I would have loved though, what somebody else already said, a 12" with minimum frame on the screen and keyboard, allowing to shave at least 1-2in from the width and depth of the macbook... Oh well, we'll see what will take place with time, who knows...
:confused:

Umm..it's the height in *pixels* that matters not the height in inches!!!

If the 12" PB was 1024x768, and the 12" MBP is 1280x800, then the MBP would hactually have just as much vertical real estate!!!

800 > 768

P.S. I've also seen Sony's 11.1" widescreen and it's also quite readable at 1280x800.

imikem
Dec 4, 2006, 01:49 PM
I don't think the time is quite right. This would be the perfect machine to unveil Leopard on, with a super-res screen, say 1600x900, scaled to suit by the new OS and driven by a ATI 1600 or nVidia 7300 mobile GPU. Along with a flexible optical/battery/blank bay. It would be a spendy little guy, no doubt, but execs and hardened geeks would eat it up. No compromise ultra portable.

Fredou51
Dec 4, 2006, 01:53 PM
Exactly right. This is a pro machine and pro's have clients that they must cater to. Besides, when they got rid of the floppy they added a CDburner, so that is a poor example.

Hum, sorry but the Bondi Blue iMac had no floppy and no cd burner.

Frederic

Warbrain
Dec 4, 2006, 01:57 PM
This will not happen. There's no way that Apple would allow a computer to steal sales away from the MacBook. There isn't as much of a demand for a 12" portable as some would think. The only thing I could imagine happening is maybe making a better equipped MacBook.

scrambledwonder
Dec 4, 2006, 02:07 PM
I finally just upgraded the memory of my 12" PowerBook to 1.25GB and have had nary a sight of the beachball since. It's really a new lease of life and gives me pause before an upgrade. Not that one of these 12" MBPs don't sound very attractive, though!

That's good to know! I have a 1Ghz 12-inch PowerBook with 768 MB RAM. It's still a great computer, but it could use a boost. Where did you get your RAM? Crucial has a 1GB chip for about 180 bucks. Does that sound about right, or is that overpriced?

I was going to get a 13-inch MB, but I want to run Aperture (and run it well), so I'm going to pony up the cash for the MBP. An ultra portable would be nice, but I'm really looking forward to having that extra screen real estate and that great graphics card! Plus, nothing says I can't keep the 12-inch around for traveling. I'm sure it'll meet all my traveling needs for many years.

Clive At Five
Dec 4, 2006, 02:09 PM
it would be nice also to see them doing a ~$700 MB for students, not everyone can afford a $1100 portable :(

A student-discounted MB is $1049... but one should consider not only the price, but the investment in yourself for the next four years. Life expectancy of PC laptops are rarely quoted as 4 years - I have been using my Mac (iMac G4 swivel neck) for 6 years and it still works great - so you have two choices: Buy a $700 "affordable" PC which will die or become unusable within 2-3 years, or buy a $1200 Mac which will last you long after college is through.

Apple doesn't sell crap. That's why it's more expensive. If someone is too cheap to put out a little more money for a long-term self-investment, then they deserve to be trapped using their imminently dying PCs.

I haven't even made an argument about OS & bundled software... but really... need I?

And also, as long as you're paying 12+ grand/yr for college, what's another $1200 of student loans? I know a guy who took out a $3000 loan to buy a Dell XPS so he could play World of WarCraft between classes. It's college, and college loans exist for a reason. So you can pay for the things you need while you're in college. If a mid-class WoW fix is what you need, buy a freaking XPS, or MBP or whatever it takes. You'll only have that opportunity once.

-Clive

Jimmieboy
Dec 4, 2006, 02:18 PM
An 12" ultra portable MBP. Hmmm. Sounds great :D If apple releases one of these things, it's gonna give me a great excuse to buy my frist mactop.

donlphi
Dec 4, 2006, 02:26 PM
This news had to come the week after I purchase my first laptop... and I tried to wait... :mad:

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 02:26 PM
Hum, sorry but the Bondi Blue iMac had no floppy and no cd burner.

Frederic

this is right. i had to buy an external cd burner for my bondi (it was a huge, slow que drive.)

~kyle

morespce54
Dec 4, 2006, 02:31 PM
i, too, think the macbook represents an exceptional value. it does everything i need, and not once do i ever wish i had a macbook pro. it's cheaper, and the design is fresh; i tired of the macbook pro's (powerbook's) design years ago.

so do I... compare to certain models...

BackInTheSaddle
Dec 4, 2006, 02:32 PM
The MacBook is nice but it isn't really a replacement for the old 12" PB.

I wonder if they can squeeze in a lighted keyboard on a 12" MBP?? That would be sweet.

bigbossbmb
Dec 4, 2006, 02:35 PM
This will not happen. There's no way that Apple would allow a computer to steal sales away from the MacBook. There isn't as much of a demand for a 12" portable as some would think. The only thing I could imagine happening is maybe making a better equipped MacBook.

Apple would happily sacrifice sales of a $1000-1300 consumer machine to a $1700-1800 professional machine. The problem is that I see this taking more sales away from the Macbook Pro. Many people, including myself, like the form and size of the Macbook, but the glossy screen, keyboard, and video card are all deal-breakers and so we get a Macbook Pro instead because it is the smallest mac laptop with the features we want.

kddpop
Dec 4, 2006, 02:41 PM
Apple would happily sacrifice sales of a $1000-1300 consumer machine to a $1700-1800 professional machine. The problem is that I see this taking more sales away from the Macbook Pro. Many people, including myself, like the form and size of the Macbook, but the glossy screen, keyboard, and video card are all deal-breakers and so we get a Macbook Pro instead because it is the smallest mac laptop with the features we want.

you make a good point. for some, the macbook does everything they need and can be seen as a 12"PB replacement. i fall into this camp. i bought a 12" PB for portability and the sound in port. at the time, the ibook didn't have sound in so i opted for the PB. i would have loved to save the money but really needed the sound in.

the new macbooks have sound in and therefor can act as a replacement for my aging rev a 12"PB. im still waiting for tax return so i can make this upgrade from powerbook to macbook. :rolleyes:

but for others, other features are important and still only found on the pro line...you name them above.

i think apple is doing a good job of providing what people need at the appropriate price.

~kyle

nickmdf
Dec 4, 2006, 02:58 PM
Over at http://www.dynamism.com they are available for the US market. They put it under the palmrest.


I thought the optical drive was the limiting factor for thickness. Has a manufacturer come out with an ultra thin drive recently? What are the ultra-thin PC laptops using, if any?

bwanac
Dec 4, 2006, 03:18 PM
I would be all over this if it came out.

Ill need a powerful computer at my desk, but will occasionaly have to take with my for projects and trips. And being able to do engineering work where I want and when will be great!

Ha ze
Dec 4, 2006, 03:24 PM
maybe it wont be marketed as a "pro" machine?

MacBook Nano maybe?

pigwin32
Dec 4, 2006, 03:26 PM
The next five weeks are going to seem REAALLLY looong.

B
OK, so in the next five weeks I've got to (not including work) fit two new windows, construct a bookshelf, line and paint and carpet our back bedroom otherwise the impending baby is sleeping in our room with us and those critters can get really noisy even when they're sleeping. Plus there's Christmas. Frankly the next five weeks are going to be berserk. Of course having just received my superb and astonishly fast new 15" 2.33GHz C2D MBP my interest in MacWorld is not that elevated. Getting some time to geek at all is my main issue.:rolleyes:

zimtheinvader
Dec 4, 2006, 03:32 PM
An 8 hr battery is not so far off at all. The new Toughbooks/X60's can get that and more thanks to improved processor technologies. What remains to be seen is whether Apple will focus more on portablity vs. power, (ie. Core Solo, integrated graphics, ultra-long battery life, no optical (honestly though, this shouldn't be a huge deal with USB2/FW800) vs CD2, dedicated graphics ala XPS M1202, DVDRW &ct., moderately long battery life)


I just wish they would slap a rotatable touch/digitizer-screen on this puppy. Vista should have far improved touch/tablet functionality, I would love to see Apple enter this arena again.

bigandy
Dec 4, 2006, 03:32 PM
Over at http://www.dynamism.com they are available for the US market. They put it under the palmrest.

i'm sure you'll realise the MBP's optical drive is under the palmrest.

i'm sure you'll realise that the MBP is pretty damn thin. yeah, this (http://www.dynamism.com/x1/main.shtml) is thinner, but an optical drive like that on an Apple machine? god no.

i don't believe a 12" WS MBP would come with an optical drive unless it was to be classed as a normal laptop.

and ultra thin means too thin to have an internal drive. i'm sitting using one of these pictured below, right now, and it's what i'd call ultra thin - and it's how thin i'd want the MBP to be. it's got FW, USB and everything, and comes with a FW DVD drive. perfect (well almost - if it were an apple it'd be better. damn my iMac for being across the room :rolleyes: )

http://img.clubic.com/photo/00033389.jpg

whatever
Dec 4, 2006, 03:36 PM
This news had to come the week after I purchase my first laptop... and I tried to wait... :mad:
JUST ENJOY YOUR NEW LAPTOP!

A couple of weeks after I got my Dual Core 3GHz Mac Pro and 30" ACD people started talking about Intel's new Quad Cores and the "soon to be released" bigger and better ACDs and how anyone who bought a new Mac Pro was stupid and should have waited.

That bummed me out for about 30 seconds and then I continued to play with my new toys. Fast forward to four months later and these new products have not been launched. However, I've had my new computer and my productivity has gone through the roof and the computer has already paid for itself!

So just enjoy what you have.

bigandy
Dec 4, 2006, 03:37 PM
So just enjoy what you have.

no matter how many times we all tell everyone else to do this, there's still a moaner. :rolleyes:

whatever
Dec 4, 2006, 03:43 PM
The MacBook is nice but it isn't really a replacement for the old 12" PB.

I wonder if they can squeeze in a lighted keyboard on a 12" MBP?? That would be sweet.

I have to admit, one of the things that attracted me to the original 17" Power Mac was the lighted keyboard, which at the time exclusive to that model. But after using that laptop with that feature for over a year I have to admit that it's not the show stopper feature I thought it was. I often found myself turning it off for increase battery life and did not find it bright enough for, let's say a dark plane. There is so much light coming from the display, that I think it's a useless feature.

If given a choice, I would rather the MacBook's keyboard instead of the MacBook Pro's lighted keyboard.

The only thing that bothers me about the MacBook is Intel's GMA.

bigandy
Dec 4, 2006, 03:46 PM
I have to admit, one of the things that attracted me to the original 17" Power Mac was the lighted keyboard, which at the time exclusive to that model. But after using that laptop with that feature for over a year I have to admit that it's not the show stopper feature I thought it was. I often found myself turning it off for increase battery life and did not find it bright enough for, let's say a dark plane. There is so much light coming from the display, that I think it's a useless feature.

If given a choice, I would rather the MacBook's keyboard instead of the MacBook Pro's lighted keyboard.

The only thing that bothers me about the MacBook is Intel's GMA.

I found the keyboard illumination one of the most useful innovations on my 15" PB... :) it was really easy to see the keys, no matter how bright the screen was set.

And are you just following the crowd in your hating of the GMA, or do you actually have a reason? (Because you'd be in a minority!)

koobcamuk
Dec 4, 2006, 03:51 PM
I pitched the idea of a 12" portable to my friend a few weeks back.

He pointed out that with no optical drive, how does one install the OS/launch in an emergency boot up or do any other system critical things that require a CD/DVD at this current moment.

How would people install Leopard? Over the internet only? What do you do if it's your only computer and you need to reinstall the OS because something odd's happened?

Believe you me. I would sell the MacBook and get one in a split second. I have the laptop for portability and secondary is power.My iMac is the workhorse. A 12" or smaller would be perfect for those of us that travel in our jobs.

koobcamuk
Dec 4, 2006, 03:52 PM
I found the keyboard illumination one of the most useful innovations on my 15" PB... :) it was really easy to see the keys, no matter how bright the screen was set.

And are you just following the crowd in your hating of the GMA, or do you actually have a reason? (Because you'd be in a minority!)

I agree. I think the MacBook is an excellent machine and would buy this tiny notebook if it had the same processors and everything. The size would be enough to swing it. Hell, I wouldn't even know about a difference if people hadn't kept telling me on the net!