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MacRumors
Apr 30, 2003, 06:36 PM
Of interest, Panther has not yet seeded outside the development team. As a result, it seems unlikely that the "leaked" screenshots were legitimate.

(In additional speculation... while I hate to encourage speculation based on a lack of Apple Legal action. Apple has traditionally pursued legal action against pre-release Screenshots, Movies, and Photos.)



applemacdude
Apr 30, 2003, 06:42 PM
thats what i thought....rumors,rumors

FattyMembrane
Apr 30, 2003, 06:43 PM
did anyone seriously think that those shots were real? that piles thing was a joke; it took up more space than a standard arrangement and had no other benefits. apple is keeping the lid tight on this project. i'm sure the gm will have several surprises not included in the version shown at wwdc.

Freg3000
Apr 30, 2003, 06:59 PM
Yes they were always highly suspect. I never really thought that they were real. :rolleyes:

rockman2023
Apr 30, 2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by FattyMembrane
did anyone seriously think that those shots were real? that piles thing was a joke; it took up more space than a standard arrangement and had no other benefits. apple is keeping the lid tight on this project. i'm sure the gm will have several surprises not included in the version shown at wwdc.

I'm sure Apple will show us enough to make us want to go out and buy a copy.

On another note, for whomever saw the Piles Flash Demo, IMO, I think it's inaccurate. Think about it.....why would the documents in the pile expand vertically, when we usually see icons from a birds eye view. Wouldn't it just get in the way of icons above the pile?

ennerseed
Apr 30, 2003, 07:19 PM
"Duh." (that's Duh peroid)

Not anything against them, I just think they were bamboozled.

iJon
Apr 30, 2003, 07:30 PM
well thats good, for a while i thought instead of my normal messy background, it would be messy with diaganol icons. well not realy, i didnt beleve the pictures anyways.

iJon

Mudbug
Apr 30, 2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by rockman2023
I'm sure Apple will show us enough to make us want to go out and buy a copy.

On another note, for whomever saw the Piles Flash Demo, IMO, I think it's inaccurate. Think about it.....why would the documents in the pile expand vertically, when we usually see icons from a birds eye view. Wouldn't it just get in the way of icons above the pile?

I should probably post this in the piles thread, but I think you're right, unless it were a dockling type of feature - things expand out of the dock already, this might just be a nicer way to look at it.

jholzner
Apr 30, 2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Of interest, Panther has not yet seeded outside the development team. As a result, it seems unlikely that the "leaked" screenshots were legitimate.

(In additional speculation... while I hate to encourage speculation based on a lack of Apple Legal action. Apple has traditionally pursued legal action against pre-release Screenshots, Movies, and Photos.)

Well, actually, I remember TONS and TONS of leaked Jaguar shots...it occured after the WWDC last year...and Apple didn't do a thing. Probably 'cause it was building a lot of hype...maybe Apple will take a similar approach to Panther.

rdas7
Apr 30, 2003, 08:18 PM
Why would Panther have the purple iTunes icon? If the screenshot was genuine, it would have had iTunes with the green music note.

Hack.

As for the Flash Piles Preview, I've received a lot of comments about it. I agree that the vertical expansion, in retrospect, is probably not the right way to go. In line partially with the Panther screenshots and news of a rotary button on a new mouse, I think that perhaps a pile could "expand" into a rotary collection of documents that could then be "dialed" through. Kind of like the Dock, but wrapped around a spiral (instead of straight at the edge of a screen). In 3D, this would look kind of like a corkscrew on a top-down view. It would give the Pile infinite depth without using up any extra screen real-estate, although it would be a bit of a pain to scroll from, say, the 3rd document to the 85th... who knows?

rdas7
Apr 30, 2003, 08:20 PM
*I should have said, "Who cares?"*

I just want a 30GB iPod!

:)

arn
Apr 30, 2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by jholzner
Well, actually, I remember TONS and TONS of leaked Jaguar shots...it occured after the WWDC last year...and Apple didn't do a thing. Probably 'cause it was building a lot of hype...maybe Apple will take a similar approach to Panther.

well - the horse was out of the barn at that point. they had already publically previewed it.

but, point taken

arn

MrMacMan
Apr 30, 2003, 08:41 PM
Was iTunes ever Purple?

reedm007
Apr 30, 2003, 09:07 PM
Yep, iTunes was purple just 4 days ago.

macdong
Apr 30, 2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Was iTunes ever Purple?

Well, iTunes 3 looks pretty much purple to me.
Or does it?? :confused:

<staring at my old PB's screen>
<15 minutes passes>

Now it looks black...

Mudbug
Apr 30, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by reedm007
Yep, iTunes was purple just 4 days ago.

Um, do you have some kind of pre-release thing going on, or are you in your own time zone? No matter how I do the math, even at the extreme edge of the "next day", only 3 days have passed, more like 2 for those of us in the western hemisphere. I'm just wondering where the extra day came into play?

reedm007
Apr 30, 2003, 10:05 PM
Well, iTunes *was* purple 4 days ago... :)

You're right, it was also purple 3 days ago it appears.. I gotta work on my timing! Today's only Wednesday, huh?

DeusOmnis
Apr 30, 2003, 11:41 PM
I'm taking the position that Apple intentionally leaked the photos. They're too... Apple like in nature. The dock seemed pretty big. No real personalized stuff. You know what i'm talking about?

Mudbug
Apr 30, 2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
I'm taking the position that Apple intentionally leaked the photos. They're too... Apple like in nature. The dock seemed pretty big. No real personalized stuff. You know what i'm talking about?

Come to my office and you'll see bunches of macs without any personalization. All you have to do is make a new user and log in. Back to basics, with your whacked out, hopped up on caffeine system still there, waiting for you to log in.

Works well for fixing system bugs, too.

Snowy_River
May 1, 2003, 02:30 AM
I'd be curious to know how the screen shots were made, if they are fake. Were they photoshoped, or was a false application made that made it look like it was a new OS.

couch
May 1, 2003, 05:50 AM
hi folks !

unfortunately i don't have OS X, as i am working on an old g3 (300 mhz) and people say it is to slow for os x. so i can't compare the screenshots of the panthermenue to "proven" screenshots from a "real" system.

but i saw the scrennshots and i have to questions. see my pics.

1) see the 3 menue items. in every item the first word is "New" and the next word is beginning with a letter that has a vertical line: "File","Folder", and "Pile".
The words File and Folder of the first two items are exactly left alignend. But the word Pile is shifted one pixel to the right. Is this possible in the "real" system or is it a evidence of possible fake?


2) see the pattern of grey lines on the background of the menue.
it is a regular pattern. same distances of lines.
in the highlighted menue item this pattern is "not right" (sorry for my english - i am german).
there also is a shift of one pixel.


maybe i am totaly wrong - maybe not!

your comments, please !

couch

couch
May 1, 2003, 05:51 AM
here is pic 2

sedarby
May 1, 2003, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by couch
hi folks !

unfortunately i don't have OS X, as i am working on an old g3 (300 mhz) and people say it is to slow for os x. so i can't compare the screenshots of the panthermenue to "proven" screenshots from a "real" system.

but i saw the scrennshots and i have to questions. see my pics.

1) see the 3 menue items. in every item the first word is "New" and the next word is beginning with a letter that has a vertical line: "File","Folder", and "Pile".
The words File and Folder of the first two items are exactly left alignend. But the word Pile is shifted one pixel to the right. Is this possible in the "real" system or is it a evidence of possible fake?


2) see the pattern of grey lines on the background of the menue.
it is a regular pattern. same distances of lines.
in the highlighted menue item this pattern is "not right" (sorry for my english - i am german).
there also is a shift of one pixel.


maybe i am totaly wrong - maybe not!

your comments, please !

couch

Bollocks! I use OS X - Jaguar on a Rev A iMac thats 233 mhz of G3 power. You just have to up the memory a bit (384 MB at the moment) and add a fast larger hard drive. I am so sick of people thinking they need a 1GHZ G4 to even use OS X! I even use Classic and it works just fine. Admittedly there is a bit of waiting here and there but it is very usable.

timbloom
May 1, 2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by rdas7
Why would Panther have the purple iTunes icon? If the screenshot was genuine, it would have had iTunes with the green music note.

Hack.


While these pictures are most likely fake, I don't think this constitutes as evidence. Remember iTunes 4 was not released when these screenshots came out. As with previous builds of OS X, usually noncritical parts (iApps, QT, and such) of the install were updated as they were publicly. It's happened before, so I don't see it as a way to discredit it.

couch
May 1, 2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by sedarby
Bollocks! I use OS X - Jaguar on a Rev A iMac thats 233 mhz of G3 power. You just have to up the memory a bit (384 MB at the moment) and add a fast larger hard drive. I am so sick of people thinking they need a 1GHZ G4 to even use OS X! I even use Classic and it works just fine. Admittedly there is a bit of waiting here and there but it is very usable.

Hmm, my harddisk is making "funny" noises since some days. Maybe I should buy a new one and just try OS X on my Mac.

Thanx for the tip !

buseman
May 1, 2003, 12:10 PM
Pictures and movies (and actual builds) of Jaguar got leaked in December 2001, remember? It was labelled 6b11 and was very premature. Developers didn't get their hands on it before April however.

At this stage Panther should be almost feature complete so the big partners (adobe, ms, macromedia etc.) must have had something to say during the development cyclus.

Even if normal developers don't get any builds of Panther before WWDC, does not mean that it hasn't been seeded outside of Cupertino, right?

Or maybe Apple has stopped doing these earth shattering changes between every release that developers like so much. :)

arn
May 1, 2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by buseman
At this stage Panther should be almost feature complete so the big partners (adobe, ms, macromedia etc.) must have had something to say during the development cyclus.

Even if normal developers don't get any builds of Panther before WWDC, does not mean that it hasn't been seeded outside of Cupertino, right?


Based on what I've heard - as of Monday, Panther has not been seeded anywhere.

arn

Snowy_River
May 1, 2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by couch
hi folks !

unfortunately i don't have OS X, as i am working on an old g3 (300 mhz) and people say it is to slow for os x. so i can't compare the screenshots of the panthermenue to "proven" screenshots from a "real" system.

but i saw the scrennshots and i have to questions. see my pics.

1) see the 3 menue items. in every item the first word is "New" and the next word is beginning with a letter that has a vertical line: "File","Folder", and "Pile".
The words File and Folder of the first two items are exactly left alignend. But the word Pile is shifted one pixel to the right. Is this possible in the "real" system or is it a evidence of possible fake?


2) see the pattern of grey lines on the background of the menue.
it is a regular pattern. same distances of lines.
in the highlighted menue item this pattern is "not right" (sorry for my english - i am german).
there also is a shift of one pixel.


maybe i am totaly wrong - maybe not!

your comments, please !

couch

Well, while I don't think that these observations are conclusive, I think that they lead me to a 'smoking gun'. I'm now prepared to say that these are definitively fakes. Here are my thoughts on the matter...

The offset of the P's vertical line could well be an anti-aliasing quirk. How the system chooses to render each character differs, so the fact the both F and P start with a vertical line is not enough to make any definite judgements about this.

As to the pattern glitch, there isn't one. The pattern is slightly different on each line of text. (The pattern is regular but it doesn't quite coincide with one line of text.) This, it turns out is the key. This is what provides the 'smoking gun'.

I'm attaching a picture that shows two separate overlays of actual screen shots.

One interesting thing to note is that the highlight color is different. This is another 'tell' that this was adjusted, although it wouldn't be outside of the realm of experience for Apple to make such a subtle change.

Next, look at the fourth line in each menu. Both begin with the word 'Open', but the don't line up. Realizing the pattern shift, I added the second overlay that simply shifts the entire lower portion of the existing menu down. The entire lower portion of the menu is simply cut and paste lower. If this were built in Interface Builder, or if this were a legit screen shot, the lower portion of the menu would be offset from the pattern slightly.

So, as I said before, I'm now ready to say that this is definitely a fake. And, not just a fake, but a PhotoShopped fake!

Snowy_River
May 1, 2003, 01:08 PM
Might help if I remembered the image:

allpar
May 1, 2003, 01:32 PM
Well, that's the issue, isn't it? OS X does some things quite fast, but others are amazingly slow on an older machine. I personally have a blue and white 300 upgraded to 400-G4 and OS X is still WAY too slow for my tastes. I do go into it periodically, but the lack of immediate feedback annoys the you-know-what out of me. One thing I used to really like about Macs back inhe days of the Plus and SE was the way you got IMMEDIATE feedback, whereas with Windows there was always a lag in the mouse on the screen (for example) following the mouse in your hand...

...so in short, yes, you CAN run X on even a biege G3, and some will find it perfectly fine, and others will be infuriated.

[Please excuse me, other forum users, for ever insinuating there could POSSIBLY be a reason for not IMMEDIATELY switching to X].

Originally posted by sedarby
I use OS X - Jaguar on a Rev A iMac thats 233 mhz of G3 power. You just have to up the memory a bit (384 MB at the moment) and add a fast larger hard drive. I am so sick of people thinking they need a 1GHZ G4 to even use OS X! I even use Classic and it works just fine. Admittedly there is a bit of waiting here and there but it is very usable.

j33pd0g
May 1, 2003, 05:20 PM
Haha! http://www.resexcellence.com/snapshots/snaps_html/05-01-03_Anonymous.shtml

matiasmarin
May 1, 2003, 10:18 PM
what a crock of ********* bs
-matias
if apple ever went back to the classic look i would toss my 12 inch out the window, and i would switch back to good old chisel and stone!

Mudbug
May 2, 2003, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by matiasmarin
what a crock of ********* bs
-matias
if apple ever went back to the classic look i would toss my 12 inch out the window, and i would switch back to good old chisel and stone!

Ok - calm down. This is a joke...

MacSween
May 2, 2003, 09:17 AM
I also have OS X running on an 233 iMac RevB 256MB/100GB. Works great! I don't do heavy graphics. Just normal office work, plus "i" stuff. Have had no real problems till iMovie 3. Started with Apple products in 1979. Used a Lisa in 1983 then switched to Macs in Sep 84! Been happy ever since! OS X is a great move.

AppleMatt
May 2, 2003, 05:38 PM
Someone may have aleady posted this, if so I'm sorry but...

Just read a review of the latest (May 01) alpha of Windows Loghorn, and it contains a new feature...STACKS!!!!!!

...utilizing a new feature called Stacks. Because you can't actually work with stacks in 4015, it's unclear what the feature does, but you can stack contacts by the same list of criteria by which you can arrange them, and you can also unstack them. Stacking and unstacking might be related to the Carousel view but, again, that's unclear right now...

Apple must be aware of this? Should someone tell them, it has to be an infringement of copyright. Microsoft get away with this far too often.

AppleMatt