New iPods after 6pm, and iPod Software 2.0 [Archive]

Monkeypoo

Apr 30, 2003, 08:38 PM

It took this long (since july of last year) to get the new models in and now you're going to wait for another revision? You must not really want this product to have waited. I've wanted one since they first ever came out but my old computer didnt' have firewire and buying my new computer was much higher on the priority list. And I gave up waiting a couple weeks ago and bought a digital camera with the money I set aside for the ipod. So while I applaud weakly your determination to wait (glad to see that you don't want a mutated ipod that does things one gets on a PDA...or at least didn't list it in this post), my only reason to wait now is to save up the money again. I theoretically have the money if I don't eat or buy any nonessentials but I need to let the excitement from my camera wear off a little first so that I can have a clear vision of my bank balance. Have fun waiting!

psxndc

Apr 30, 2003, 08:43 PM

I'm not asking for the next update, I'm asking when is the next batch off the assembly line? The one that will fix the issues the first batch will invariably have... I can't wait a whole year for one. Let's be reasonable and realistic here. :-)

-p

Monkeypoo

Apr 30, 2003, 08:51 PM

Well, that is much better. I think I never really had to worry about that since by the time I saved up money for the product, it's been out long enough for such fixes to occur. I wonder how long it will take for battery problems to surface...

off topic (no comments required, just sharing): I personally wish that belkin adaptor used NiMH batteries since I already have some for my camera and I wouldn't have to switch them out as often (i'm guessing the ipod will eat alkalines fast just like digicams have them for snacks). Of course, it certainly makes it less of a pocket player.

jhoskins

Apr 30, 2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster

Both models have the same number of buttons, and there doesn't appear to be any incompatible hardware issues.

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Their must be something different on the hardware side. Sure it has the same number of buttons, but the same iPod will now work with Macs & Windows at the same time. Seems to me that this might be a hardware change.

John.

Stella

Apr 30, 2003, 09:44 PM

NO!! There will be NO iPod version 2 software for older iPods, stop kidding yourselves.

Apple are ****** us over.

I bought a iPod, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to spend another $CA700 more money to get the latest software.

There is little reason why apple can't release v2 software for the older iPods.
Originally posted by pyrotoaster
I'm still assuming (and, yes, hoping) that Apple will make iPod software 2.0 available on Friday.
Version 1.3 was probably released just so iTunes 4 downloads would be compatible before the new iPods are available.

Le Big Mac

Apr 30, 2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by thefong
I ordered my ipod on mon and through tuesday accorrding to the apple store, the ipods would be delievered friday afternoon to the shipping address. I just pray they didnt get it mixed up cause Im going to be one place on friday, where I got the ipod shipped, and then another place all next week and I want my ipod....

Yeah, what's with the "order today and have it by friday" claim at the apple store? I ordered on Mon. eve., and my order is still "open" with shipping not set for next Mon.

Le Big Mac

Apr 30, 2003, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
I understand that there's a very real possibility that Apple won't release 2.0 for existing iPods, but there also appears to be no real reason.

Both models have the same number of buttons, and there doesn't appear to be any incompatible hardware issues.

We'll just have to wait and see, but I still wouldn't be surprised if Apple still provides 2.0 support for older iPods.

Seems teh more important question is whether Apple will continue to update the ipod software past 1.3. It would be pretty crappy to stop improving that software as other features get added. Or at least they should insure that iTunes whatever will continue to be compatible with IPod 1.3.

Kwyjibo

Apr 30, 2003, 09:56 PM

i'm sure we will atleast see 1.3.xxx i think the point is that it will never goto 2.0 with 1.0 software and that makes me sad. my hope now relies on the good people of the internet altough although cracking apple stuff is tough i hold the hope that one day, some random kid will figure out how to put 2.0 software on a 1.0 device and get the word out fast enough
b4 he gets shut down.

DTphonehome

Apr 30, 2003, 09:57 PM

How is the new alarm clock feature supposed to wake you up? Do you have to have your headphones in your ears all night? Or does the new iPod have a tiny speaker inside?
I guess you could hook it up to external speakers, but I presume that one would use the alarm feature on vacation or away from home. And I wouldn't take speakers with me on vacation just to have an alarm clock. You may as well just take an alarm clock!

tYNS

Apr 30, 2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Seems teh more important question is whether Apple will continue to update the ipod software past 1.3. It would be pretty crappy to stop improving that software as other features get added. Or at least they should insure that iTunes whatever will continue to be compatible with IPod 1.3.

Okay.. my thought on Apple's stand on no iPod OS 2 for older iPods... I am pissed because I, like many, just recently purchased my iPod. This is a reoccuring theme with me and apple.. The last major purchase was my B&W yosemite G3 .. one month after I bought it the G4's came out.. what a crock.

But what I realized with apple is that they do not just halt on the products. I am VERY greatful they put out iPod OS 1.3 .. AAC is great.. It is too bad I don't have on the go playlists, but.. what the hell.. I can program my own on the computer... Honestly.. I think it would be very tedious scrolling through a tons of menus anyways. In iTunes you just drag and drop.

As far as my G3 goes... I still am using it (even with my iPod right now) OS X is running on it quiet well and it still zooms along. It is 4 years old, and never had a problem! try and get that much life out of a PC. 4 years ago in the PC world was pentium II-233 era. Crap.. you would be lucky to get win98 to run on that thing at a good speed. WinXP? no way.

No solitaire on your iPod? who cares.. that is what Windows is for. :)

I am just so greatful they have AAC support... not all is lost.. the iPod still works great... and it does what it is supposed to do .. play music... and DAMN well at that. So stop grovelling... Apple will definitely keep supporting the old iPods if there are know firmware troubles with it.

If they don't give us those very little exra features .. so what.. it doesn't hinder its ability to play music. There is obviously limitations somewhere with the older iPod hardware.

You guys have the best MP3 (and now AAC) player on the market. Be happy and enjoy the hell out of it..

Besides we have one thing those new ipod owners won't have... A nicer interface layout.. I for one do not like the new interface.

Kwyjibo

Apr 30, 2003, 10:25 PM

i agree with your comment about the best interface/layout but some morning i want to listen to random sogns from different cds and it would be great ot have a playlist on the go. The alarm clock would be great too, i think apple is abusing a strong customer base and this just sends bad vibes. Persoanlyl if apple does not continue to support the ipod I will defiantley look into other mp3 players when the ipod dies. i mean i expect this crap from other companies more than apple. i also dont' think the above feature request are unbearable / out of the question.

rideahyperLite

Apr 30, 2003, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Macrumors
Despite possibly receiving iPods sometime this week, it appears that stores are limited from selling iPods until after 6pm on May 2nd. A significant stock of new iPods is expected to be in place by this time.

i swear to god that i saw a 15gb apple ipod at best buy like 3 hours ago. its in east hanover, nj if anyone wants it. i didnt get to play w/it tho bc best buy is gay and they had it locked up in its case.

Kwyjibo

Apr 30, 2003, 10:35 PM

what color was the box? Black?

porovaara

Apr 30, 2003, 10:35 PM

What is up with you complainers?

You bough a piece of consumer eletronics and are complaining because there is now a newer, better one? Do you expect toshiba to update your DVD player when a new one comes out? Do you get get free upgrades of your cell phone when ever the new revision comes out?

Apple is giving you additional features (ala AAC) that you never even paid for in the first place. Get over it. Please.

rideahyperLite

Apr 30, 2003, 10:39 PM

i only saw the side bc it was behind a glass case but the box was white w/ ipod 15 gb in black. then it said for mac/windows i think

tYNS

Apr 30, 2003, 10:46 PM

All I can think is that people are getting too greedy. if you hadn't seen this new ipods you would have not been soo eager to have these features, and probably made due with what you had. Mostly you would probably be braggin to others that you own an iPod.

Technology moves quickly. You can't blame Apple because of that. Seriously, Apple is very trustable company. IF they aren't releasing these features, it would be for good reason. Most likely the hardware is not supporting these features somehow for a reason.

YOU HAVE AAC! this is probably the biggest feature the new iPods have.. ENJOY IT! this is probably what is occupying the available firmware memory capacity, hindering any other features from being added to the iPods. I would much rather have AAC than an alarm clock. AAC is a music feature. iPod is a music player. not a seiko.

You bought the iPod because you thought it was cool the way it was. If you thought it was so terrible.. and like others.. are protesting ever buying a new Apple product ever again.. then throw the damn iPod in the garbage.

Enjoy it.. it works and plays music very well!

Mudbug

Apr 30, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by tYNS
Okay.. my thought on Apple's stand on no iPod OS 2 for older iPods... I am pissed because I, like many, just recently purchased my iPod. This is a reoccuring theme with me and apple.. The last major purchase was my B&W yosemite G3 .. one month after I bought it the G4's came out.. what a crock.

just so you know, arn made this nifty little page for just this very thing...
MacRumors Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/)

You might want to check it out before heading out into the wild with a credit card again...

Mudbug

Apr 30, 2003, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by tYNS
You bought the iPod because you thought it was cool the way it was. If you thought it was so terrible.. and like others.. are protesting ever buying a new Apple product ever again.. then throw the damn iPod in the garbage.

Errr, or just send it to me... I'll be happy without solitaire. I don't have time to play anyway. Send me a message and I'll happily give you my mailing address. I'll even pay shipping. :D

tYNS

Apr 30, 2003, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Mudbug
just so you know, arn made this nifty little page for just this very thing...
MacRumors Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/)

You might want to check it out before heading out into the wild with a credit card again...

I know that page is available.. and I should have expalined that recently was last december. I would also like to refer to the rest of my message which basically states that I am not unhappy. I felt an initial upsetness, but realize I am HAPPY WITH WHAT I BOUGHT. IT does the job quite well and I am really happy that they have AAC support! Woo hoo..

MY message further went on to say that I have gotten so much life and enjoyment out of everything i have purchased form apple that I basically was not upset over little things. I feel apple really does care about me, and supports my products the best they can.

BTW, I am not 100% sure, but I believe Macrumors did not have the product buyers guide back in december (could be wrong) .. and besides... it is based on rumors... there was NO way of knowing what or if a new ipod that had a new OS would be available soon..

If you live life waiting for the next best thing to come out before you buy it, you will NEVER buy or enjoy anything.

This is the same situation with people whining about not having there iPod wake them up in the morning.. They're getting themselves in a hatred loop with their iPods... they will end up selling them and buying either a new iPod and using MOST of these "NEW" features a grand total of NEVER. Then complain when iPod turns into the iMicroPod 3 with OS 4.5 on them and repeat the whole process. Meantime the original iPod still plays back the same songs the newest iMicroPod does except it has a "pez dispenser" beside the firewire port.

Come on people. You're becoming slves to technologies next biggest things and not enjoying, or using what you have.

This is the biggest problem with technology, people who always have to have the latest thing. It is an obsession. They sell off there old equipment and end up buying the lastest computer hardware 2 minutes after it is released. In the end .. the guy that was content with his quadra 800 has produced a full length feature film and made millions selling it to miramax, while the guy running the Advanced Beta of the 970 PowerForce G6 1.4ghz Ultimate DV Studio was able to boot it up just in time to turn it off and sell it, then buy a 970 PowerForce G6 1.42ghz model.

When does it stop.. enjoy waht you have! use it to it's max! and stop coming to macrumors to depress yourself!

tYNS

Apr 30, 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Mudbug
Errr, or just send it to me... I'll be happy without solitaire. I don't have time to play anyway. Send me a message and I'll happily give you my mailing address. I'll even pay shipping. :D

SEE ! there are lots of people that would be just happy to have an iPod!

Monkeypoo

Apr 30, 2003, 11:19 PM

Just for fun, when the new G4 powerbooks came out and everyone was posting their "I'm pissed at apple for not warning me" posts at the online apple discussion boards, I posted a thing that basically made fun of those complainers and was thoroughly amused at the people who then "yelled" at me for making a mockery of their self-perceived problem. This seems to always happen. And I'm glad. Not because I take joy in the frustrations of others but because it means that the future holds great promise in the personal electronics venue. I'd be more upset if it appeared that nothing was ever improved upon. So you just bought an ipod, if you looked around long enough before you bought, you would have found buyers guides like the one on this site or even run into discussion boards that discussed the ipod rumors. That's how I found this site and learned that I should wait. I didn't realize how long I'd be waiting (since jan) but I'm glad I did.

I say to those feeling miffed to enjoy your "old" ipod and when it fails you (if you used a visa to buy it, you get an additional year of warranty for free and can get it repaired and then get reimbursed) or you want more, buy a new one and then laugh at us who will buy this round of ipods as we bitch and moan that we don't have the next version of ipods and can't take advantage of the new ipod software 3.0.

Or like the guy from shreveport, I'll gladly take donations as I save up for the 30 gb model... the tax in louisiana sucks and makes any big purchase a tad bit more expensive

DGFan

Apr 30, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Stella
NO!! There will be NO iPod version 2 software for older iPods, stop kidding yourselves.

Apple are f?cking us over.

I bought a iPod, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to spend another $CA700 more money to get the latest software.

There is little reason why apple can't release v2 software for the older iPods.

Oh great, another customer who wants unlimited free upgrades to additional features forever.

And I am sure you're speaking as someone who knows the technical details of both the old and new iPods to be able to make that last statement. Right?

:rolleyes:

DGFan

Apr 30, 2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
i agree with your comment about the best interface/layout but some morning i want to listen to random sogns from different cds and it would be great ot have a playlist on the go. The alarm clock would be great too, i think apple is abusing a strong customer base and this just sends bad vibes. Persoanlyl if apple does not continue to support the ipod I will defiantley look into other mp3 players when the ipod dies. i mean i expect this crap from other companies more than apple. i also dont' think the above feature request are unbearable / out of the question.

Abusing? Come on people, this isn't geek.com. Let's be reasonable here. Apple supports their products as well or better than just about every tech company I have ever dealt with.

This "I want free new features forever or you're treating me poorly" is just nonsense.
:mad:

AndrewMT

Apr 30, 2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Yeah, what's with the "order today and have it by friday" claim at the apple store? I ordered on Mon. eve., and my order is still "open" with shipping not set for next Mon.

Yeah, I ordered mine Tuesday night and the order status is still "open." However, big mac, I did notice on my order status details the shipping was listed as:

Shipping Method
Priority Overnite

I paid for the second-day. Maybe they couldn't ship out on Wednesday, so they will now have to make up for the loss in time using overnight. If I don't see it shipped on Thursday, I'm getting a refund and going to my Apple Store in Mclean, VA.

neutrino23

Apr 30, 2003, 11:58 PM

Apple added AAC to the existing iPod because it immediately gave them 700,000 customers for the music business. They did not add new features to the existing iPods because they hope to sell you a new one.

My position is in the middle. I have no problem that the new iPod has many new hardware features. I have no problem with the new iPods having new features that might be tied to the new hardware (requiring more memory, speed, registers, display space, etc.). What irks me is that people have for a long time requested features such as being able to buffer two or three songs by clicking on them and now this will be in the new iPods but not the current ones. I don't think there is a technical reason not to do this. And it is not that the iPods were cheap. Certainly Apple could toss a few features to the existing customers.

After all, when I buy a PowerBook running OS X 10.2 I don't think I will have to buy a new PowerBook in the fall when OS X 10.3 comes out. On the other hand, I have no expectation that I can run OS X on my old Performa.

iSmell

May 1, 2003, 12:13 AM

I think we should complain to apple in this case. I'm not a fan of people that expect to get every new feature for free, but in this case, I have to agree.

Sure, I may not know every last technical detail about the new ipods vs the old ones, but I know there is absolutely no technical barrier that would prevent apple from making 2.0 available to current ipod owners. There's just no way that those features would somehow be impossible to impliment.

The other thing is, these are not major new features, they're just nice little things that really should have been in from the start. For 99% of the people out there, the updated software is not going to be enough to make them buy a new ipod, and the 1% that is is enough for would have bought a new one anyway, so apple wouldn't lose any saled by releasing 2.0. By not releasing it, they just annoy 700,000 people (or maybe 693,000 not counting the 1% that ordered new 30gb models monday at 2:31pm EST).

So, I think we should all use the feedback thing on the website to politely suggest that past customers would like to use the on-the-go playlist with their current ipods and that such features would make the ipod more useful and might encourage 700,000 people to buy some songs to put on their newly enhanced ipod.

That's what I'm going to do anyway.

frinky23

May 1, 2003, 12:25 AM

Well I, for one, am perfectly happy buying a brand new iPod, just as soon as they show up on the Supplier Apple Store. Hmm, better check the web site tomorrow when I get in to the office.

tYNS

May 1, 2003, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by iSmell

The other thing is, these are not major new features, they're just nice little things that really should have been in from the start. For 99% of the people out there, the updated software is not going to be enough to make them buy a new ipod, and the 1% that is is enough for would have bought a new one anyway, so apple wouldn't lose any saled by releasing 2.0. By not releasing it, they just annoy 700,000 people (or maybe 693,000 not counting the 1% that ordered new 30gb models monday at 2:31pm EST).

Who are you to judge that they are not major features. The Firmware is limited in space. Do people not understand that it takes a lot of code to implement the audio decoders? If this OS update was no problem to do, why don't old palm pilots from back in 1998 have the ability to update to the latest revisions of the palm OS?

Apple didn't cheat anyone. You knew waht you were buying when you bought the iPod. You should be happy that Apple even offered the AAC decoding ability as it theoretically was not a feature that you bought with the iPod.

Theoretically the only firmware updates apple is obligated to provide you Grab Asses is anything to do with the functionality of the iPod's features that were sold to you in the first place.

AndrewMT

May 1, 2003, 01:39 AM

No, this is silly. I just bought a new ipod on Tuesday for the first time, but I understand what the existing iPod owners are saying. At ther very minimum Apple should upgrade the older iPods to allow on-the-go playlists. This feature would not require a large amount of code on the old iPods' firmware.

mim

May 1, 2003, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by AndrewMT
No, this is silly. I just bought a new ipod on Tuesday for the first time, but I understand what the existing iPod owners are saying. At ther very minimum Apple should upgrade the older iPods to allow on-the-go playlists. This feature would not require a large amount of code on the old iPods' firmware.

Some sense, thankyou.

I don't think anyone (well...most people) really believe that Apple should give them a new 'pod just because there are new ones available. A firmware update is not mandatory either. It's just courtesy really, something you do to keep return customers in good spirits. A lot of us are fully aware that the iPod is updatable, and I certainly expected it to support mp4, among other features at some stage in the future. That was a reason in my deciding to buy one, rather than a mini-disk recorder.

To discover after less than a year, that this thing has just been effectively EOL'd is a little frustrating. Yes, especially as many people have been requesting playlists-on-the go for a long time now. It's more than a little frustrating. It's a bit rude.

I'd really like playlists on the go. Not enough to rush out and buy a new 'pod though. But enough to fork out $20 or so for an update, if that's all that's required.

But we're being hastey. There maybe future updates. Let's bug apple and see what happens. Otherwise, I guess there's always the Linux-on-iPod project to support ;)

Snowy_River

May 1, 2003, 02:12 AM

As some of you may be aware, I just bought a 20GB iPod. I feel mildly irked by the fact that Apple has decided to make my purchase "obsolete" without announcing it, even before I actually purchased it. And, I do believe that this is a choice, as I have read elsewhere that certain current and former iPod engineers have been interviewed and have said that there is no technical reason why 2.0 could not be offered to older iPod users.

Now, that said, let me also say that I wouldn't see it as unreasonable for Apple to ask for some small fee (say $10) for a full number upgrade for the iPod OS. So, I don't necessarily see this as something that I'm entitled to. Apple could even make it $30, and I'd see that as reasonable. I might not spring for it immediately, but I'd still see it as reasonable.

Someone made an analogy to the Palm handhelds, saying that you wouldn't expect a 1998 Palm to still run the latest Palm OS. Well, what I'd say to that is that I would expect a 2001 Palm to run the latest Palm OS. Just as I expect my computer to run the latest OS for a few years after I buy it.

Well, I wrote the following letter to Apple, and sent it to them through their iPod feedback page:

Dear sir,
I am writing to register my astonishment at the fact that Apple has publicly stated that it will not support the iPod 2.0 update for older iPods. I have read that there is no real technical reason for this, but, rather, it was a marketing decision. While I admit that this information is hearsay, nonetheless, this strikes me as a very poor decision. Even if all of the technical advances that are included in iPod 2.0 are not available to older iPods for simple hardware reasons, I expect that it wouldn't be too difficult to provide a v2.0 that could distinguish between which platform it was being installed on, and install the appropriate version of itself.
Now, all of that said, I do understand that there are economics involved. I, for one, though I'd prefer not to, would be willing to pay a reasonable price of about $10 for the upgrade.
However, I emplore you not to make the foolish decision to simply cut off users of earlier iPods. I see this more as a blow to the customers' confidence in Apple than any issue of actual usability of the older iPods.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

I certainly encourage others to do the same. I don't want to see Apple go down a bad road.

Edit: Oh, I forgot something. The one reasuring thing in all of this is that, if it's true that there is no technical reason our current iPods can't support v2.0, then I think we can assume that someone will figure out how to hack it into place. I'm not sure I'd jump on that one too quickly either, as it would likely void my warranty, but still, it would be nice to know that there was somewhere to go later...

mclosers

May 1, 2003, 02:18 AM

I actually have wanted the new games as well as the notes features for some time. The modifiable main menu is cool too. I thought Tetris would be a good game to have on the ipod. I am a college student and if I get to class early I like to play a game while listening to my music/ or read the news via iPod It on my iPod while listening to music.

Apple's reason for not releasing the 2.0 software for the old iPods is simple.
The same reason the didn't release the Windows version of iTunes.
Apple always releases the latest and greatest then lets you upgrade to it at a later time.
I bet that apple will realease another update within 6 months.

lmalave

May 1, 2003, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by tYNS
If you live life waiting for the next best thing to come out before you buy it, you will NEVER buy or enjoy anything.

But common sense dictates that you'll get the most value out of a product if you buy it right after it's upgraded. I bought my iBook right after it came out in November, and I'm buying the new iPod on Friday. That's what the Buyer's Guide is all about. I held off on buying the iPod because I expected a major revision soon, and I was not dissapointed.

madforrit

May 1, 2003, 03:51 AM

Ok, quick disclaimer before I start...I don't own an ipod (yet) nor do I have any knowledge about ipod firmware/software. But here's a thought:

Let's assume that, as many people are claiming, the old ipods *can* take v2.0. Why would Apple want to end the update train on the old ipods?

Perhaps...and I'm simply throwing out a possibility....the new ipod is capable of taking an update to the software (v2.5?...maybe a few months down the line) that will enable some really nifty features but the old ipods wouldn't be able to take this "super-update." From Apple's perspective, updating old ipods to v2.0, while possible, may set a precedent for old ipod users to be clamoring for the next update, which may end up being not possible at all. Maybe the features coming in a hypothetical future software version weren't able to make it by release but are planned. Basically what I'm saying is 2.0 may be a work in progress that *can* be put on old ipods but its intended final version may not be able to.

Again, I'm simply trying to throw out possiblities for why Apple wouldn't upgrade old ipods to 2.0 IF it were possible, besides the "Apple is screwing us" hypothesis.

K, you're gonna make mishmash out of this theory...so release the hoooouuuunnnddssss! :)

Stella

May 1, 2003, 05:48 AM

I don't think the people who are pissed off are not justified.

What if you bought a 15" TiBook and tomorrow they came out with 15.4" Ti and OSX 10.3, and Apple said - OSX 10.3 is incompatible with 15" Ti's. You'd be pissed wouldn't you.

There is no difference between that and the iPods. Its a hard disc that can be upgrade, so Apple should keep supporting the hard ware.

iPods are not cheap and cannot expect people to upgrade there hardware every year because Apple choose not to support older iPod.

Originally posted by DGFan
Oh great, another customer who wants unlimited free upgrades to additional features forever.

And I am sure you're speaking as someone who knows the technical details of both the old and new iPods to be able to make that last statement. Right?

:rolleyes:

j33pd0g

May 1, 2003, 06:16 AM

I wish I could justify $299 for a new (low end) iPod every year. I kind of feel like Ol' Yeller had to be taken 'round back. :(
I will wait until the 3'rd generation iPods come out.
These are rumored to be fitted with those new 3,400 gig SRED's (storage-rock-enhanced-drive). You know, those new technology rocks Nasapple discover on Mars.

abdul

May 1, 2003, 06:44 AM

I think the new ipods will support firewire 800. thats the genious of having a dock system you can change the software and the other end of the cable, but the ipod remains the same in essence.

they must include other things as well, but i think that will be the big announcement

plus having usb2 support for windows user allows them to download faster at 480 rather than 400 with firewire

deputy_doofy

May 1, 2003, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by Stella
NO!! There will be NO iPod version 2 software for older iPods, stop kidding yourselves.

Apple are f?cking us over.

I bought a iPod, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to spend another $CA700 more money to get the latest software.

There is little reason why apple can't release v2 software for the older iPods.

Why does everyone think Apple is screwing us over just because they updated the iPod hardware? Using this logic, Apple screwed me over because they kept advancing their computers after I purchased an iMac DV 400 SE back in 2000. I can pay another $1500 for a computer that would absolutely destroy my old iMac. Welcome to the world of hardware...

DGFan

May 1, 2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Stella
I don't think the people who are pissed off are not justified.

What if you bought a 15" TiBook and tomorrow they came out with 15.4" Ti and OSX 10.3, and Apple said - OSX 10.3 is incompatible with 15" Ti's. You'd be pissed wouldn't you.

There is no difference between that and the iPods. Its a hard disc that can be upgrade, so Apple should keep supporting the hard ware.

iPods are not cheap and cannot expect people to upgrade there hardware every year because Apple choose not to support older iPod.

Are they the same? Does the OS of an iPod reside in firmware or on the hard drive? It DOES matter. Don't try to tell me it doesn't.

And if it's in firmware, is there firmware space for 2.0? What you seem to want Apple to do is write two separate versions of 2.0 - one that runs on the old iPods and one that runs on the new ones.

You claim to have complete knowledge of the hardware so tell me how much firmware space each one has and where the OS resides. You said there is "no difference" so you must know, right?
:rolleyes:

Sorry, but you're not convincing me that an iPod is comparable to a computer. A computer is designed to be much more upgradable than an iPod.

Stella

May 1, 2003, 07:31 AM

To all those Apple aplogists who say existing iPod owners should not complain -

You buy a new iPod ASAP, then if next year Apple do the same with the iPod 3 - I expect to see *NO* complaints from you lot!!

:-)

To the above poster - no, of course I don't know the technical differences. However, the impressions I get that there are none and its just a marketing decision.

--

I'm British, I like enjoy bitching and wining ;-)

--

Seriously though, this week has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

I was going to get a .MAC Account, however, until I see Apple going international with their music service - I will not buy .MAC account. This may not be totally Apple fault, but I've said it before, Apple treatment of international users, has been poor.

h'biki

May 1, 2003, 08:44 AM

i bought my B&W G3 when they were announced. Six months later the G4 came out. I was a bit miffed but the early G4s weren't as good as the G3s... although mine had ATA problems.

In November last year Apple released the 15" PB. I bought it cause it was a good time to jump (I figure 970 PBs were at least 18 months away... and I couldn't wait 18 months ). The 17" and 15" announcement certainly shocked me. I heard no rumors anywhere about them. I was a tad miffed. But, at the same time, it took 3 months for the 17" to ship... so I've had my machine for 5 months and made good use of it and, y'know, I'm happy with it. Its a good size for laptop usage. The only thing I prefer on the 17" is the brightness of the screen (not so much an issue, considering I have a 17" LCD for home use and I dim my 15" on the road) and the aluminum casing. The Ti scratches easily for my lifestyle but, hey, I knew that when I bought it.

I ordered a 1.4ghz G4 for me at my work when they were announced. Its a great machine. Quiet. Fast. Sure, the 970s are around the corner... but... I'm wary of a first model 970 (or first model anything... not just first batch) and between a second-gen 970 and the current 1.4ghz... the 1.4 will have made its money and a 970 can be purchased if required.

I ordered my 30gig iPod on the day they were announced. I've heard rumours of the 'big' revoltionary iPod coming later this year. Did I make the right decision with the 30giger?

I think so. What could the new iPod offer that this one doesn't? Better shock resistance? I don't run with my iPod. Hardwriting Recognition? I can't recognise my handwriting, so I don't expect it would. A colourscreen? Pfft. Videoplayback. Well, potentially useful. I'm a video editor by trade and keeping my showreel with me all the time would be nifty. But there have been situations where I haven't had access to a TV and needed to show a client a cut of a project or my showreel... and guess what, that's what my 15" PB is for. The only thing I would miss is the input into the iPod for the Address Book and iCal. But thats what I use my phone for and that I keep with me *all* the time. I ain't going to take my iPod with me to a club but I'll take my phone.

Do I expect Apple to offer audio input or video output on my current iPod? Hell no. Character input using the scroll wheel? Hell no. Firewire 800 i/o? Unless the harddrive can take full advantage of firewire 800 whats the point? 400mbs is bloody fast and most drives can't reach bus-saturation anyway.

I buy the iPod now with the features I want and updates to the feature-set are nice, but not expected. Updates for stability and so on are expected.

Point is... being a consumer and getting upset with your current piece of technology being made obsolete is like getting upset when a politician is dishonest. It's going to lead to a life of dissapointments.

Its not Apple's responsibility to make you a smart consumer - its yours. A friend of mine's brother bought a B&W G3 a *day* before the G4s were announced. Was it Apple's responsibility to say 'Hey, don't buy our computer, its being replaced tomorrow?' Hell no. They're a business. They make money. They make money through getting people to buy their products. That includes new users and their existing customerbase.

I'm not being an apologist, I'm being realistic.

If I decide I need the new iTablet or iPod 3 or whatever... I'll sell my 30giger and buy the new one. (Or mb keep the iPod and just leave it in the car)

I've got two DVD players. Less than 18 months after I got the first one, I bought another for the second TV. Half the price and it has as good a picture, plays Mp3s and DVDRs. Do I expect Panasonic to upgrade the older one? No.

However, the vLink DVD player I bought for work is a professional DVD player that is *sold* on the basis that it can be upgraded to support new formats (within reason... its limited by hardware). If a new variation of DVD is released and the player can physically read the disc, then I'll have reason to be cranky if they don't upgrade the firmware to support Mp4 CDs (for example).

But I paid good money in expectation of that. Its how its advertised.

I don't see Apple advertising the iPod saying 'hey, we plan to add new features to the iPod 3 in a few months and we'll let you upgrade your iPod to do most of them too".

paulc

May 1, 2003, 08:47 AM

I think that the "apologists" who rail against those of us that have the utter gaul to complain are just another part of the reason why apple's marketshare continues to tumble. Imagine what would happen if we all got together with ONE voice to try and correct these "wrongs?"

In one post, someone said we should be HAPPY to get AAC support; happy? The "music store" would have been dead on arrival if it needed everyone to purchase new puds. They wre NOT doing customers any "favors," they were simply giving the store a fighting chance.

Frankly, it's all these microsoftian moves they are making things go worse and worse. I know MANY, MANY folks that simply are so upset with thgese kinds of moves that they've either switched or gone into "I'll get a new Mac every 3 years."

Chip Chanko

May 1, 2003, 09:26 AM

Thoughts on posts so far:

1. For the person who said PC's 4 years ago were probably PII 230's...4 years ago I bought a PIII 550 and it still works great. Only things I have added are a second hard drive and a firewire card (for music and ipod). And it runs XP Pro beautifully.

2. Perhaps Apple isn't releasing 2.0 to old podders so that anyone wanting the new stuff can't buy a used ipod off ebay and add 2.0 to it...they have to buy a new one.

3. My Palm Pilot Professional (bought in 1997) was given firmware upgrades for about 3 years after purchase (and still gets them from time to time). Apple should and will continue to give Ipod purchasers upgrades...they've only been out for a year and a half!! Anyone who bought a touch wheel ipod should get at least another year of support (since those have only been out for about 6-8 months).

4. I think the 2.0 statement apple made is vague and refers more to the 2.0 firmware for NEW ipods. It leaves the door open for a 2.0 for touch/scrollwheel ipods to be released in the future. The statement doesn't say old ipods will never be able to use 2.0...it only states that old ipods cannot use the current 2.0 firmware.

illumin8

May 1, 2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by abdul
I think the new ipods will support firewire 800. thats the genious of having a dock system you can change the software and the other end of the cable, but the ipod remains the same in essence.

they must include other things as well, but i think that will be the big announcement

plus having usb2 support for windows user allows them to download faster at 480 rather than 400 with firewire
BZZT! There's no reason for them to support Firewire 800. The tiny 1.8" hard drive has no hope of being able to keep up with this interface. Besides, USB2's theoretical 480 Mbps is only a burst speed, and for sustained throughput Firewire 400 is still faster.

j33pd0g

May 1, 2003, 09:55 AM

The fact that PC users had to invest in new CPU's every 6 months to a year just to keep up, was one of the reasons why I switched to the Mac platform.
The Apple computer lifespan was a major factor in my justifacation for the macs higher computer price tag. Yes. I am a strong believer of you get what you pay for. The fact that Apple doesn't put out crap was also a justifacation.
The whole time I have had my mac, still do BTW, (almost 4 years now) I've been able to keep it up to date. Only recently do I require more power. While on the other hand, the average for my peecee lovin' friends having to replace their setup is 2.5.
I am not a rant-crazy-complainer, but IMHO (and on my pocketbook) I belive this would be a negative trend for Apple.

----------This part added shortly after, as I didn't complete my thought----------

My point is that "lifespan" to me was a selling point. I also belive that companys need to turn profits in order to survive. And since Apple survives on hardware sales, it is only natural that HW upgrades/updates would occure. New technology is also a "selling point", but to take away a "selling point" in place of the other is like Peter robbing Paul, to pay Mary.

h'biki

May 1, 2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Chip Chanko
Thoughts on posts so far:

4. I think the 2.0 statement apple made is vague and refers more to the 2.0 firmware for NEW ipods. It leaves the door open for a 2.0 for touch/scrollwheel ipods to be released in the future. The statement doesn't say old ipods will never be able to use 2.0...it only states that old ipods cannot use the current 2.0 firmware.

Yes. And Apple has consistently released software for new models first. Partially to give the new models a marketing push and partially because it means they can concentrate on getting the new models' software right first before making it legacy-compatible.

This happened with the mechanical and touch iPods too.

They then offer a point revision offering the same (or similar) features to older users.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually releases a 1.4 update for iPod 1 users in to give them some of the functionality of iPod 2. Like playlists on the go.

All this 'apple is the new microsoft' is hysterical nonsense.

KLFloyd

May 1, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by iSmell
Sure, I may not know every last technical detail about the new ipods vs the old ones, but I know there is absolutely no technical barrier that would prevent apple from making 2.0 available to current ipod owners. There's just no way that those features would somehow be impossible to implement.

Ok, you should have just stopped when you said you DON'T know every technical detail about the new iPod. Unless you work for Apple and were on the design team you don't know what the differences are between the old and new versions. Bottom line is no one outside Apple currently knows if the old iPods will even support 2.0.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 4 months you knew iPod updates were coming. Technology changes it's a fact of life. Products are improved upon, new models come out. That's a factor when buying any technology from a VCR to a personal computer.

If you simply can't stand the fact that one day the technology you buy today will be improved upon then you better be independently wealthy or just not start buying in the first place.

Geeze people, can we please move on?

sparks9

May 1, 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by tYNS
BTW, I am not 100% sure, but I believe Macrumors did not have the product buyers guide back in december (could be wrong) .. and besides... it is based on rumors... there was NO way of knowing what or if a new ipod that had a new OS would be available soon..

hmmm this has been common knowledge since Feb., and confirmed since start of April i think.

DGFan

May 1, 2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by h'biki
Its not Apple's responsibility to make you a smart consumer - its yours. A friend of mine's brother bought a B&W G3 a *day* before the G4s were announced. Was it Apple's responsibility to say 'Hey, don't buy our computer, its being replaced tomorrow?' Hell no. They're a business. They make money. They make money through getting people to buy their products. That includes new users and their existing customerbase.
<snip>
I don't see Apple advertising the iPod saying 'hey, we plan to add new features to the iPod 3 in a few months and we'll let you upgrade your iPod to do most of them too".

There are some who do make the argument that Apple should pre-announce but even if it made business sense (which it doesn't - because it would simply kill sales of the existing product) it's a fallacy.

Whenever Apple chooses to announce a new product there will always be people who bought the old product the previous day. In your friend's case, if they had announced it a day earlier your friend would not have been upset. But the people who bought theirs the day before your friend did would still be upset. There is always a day before an announcement - always.

DGFan

May 1, 2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by paulc
I think that the "apologists" who rail against those of us that have the utter gaul to complain are just another part of the reason why apple's marketshare continues to tumble. Imagine what would happen if we all got together with ONE voice to try and correct these "wrongs?"

In one post, someone said we should be HAPPY to get AAC support; happy? The "music store" would have been dead on arrival if it needed everyone to purchase new puds. They wre NOT doing customers any "favors," they were simply giving the store a fighting chance.

Frankly, it's all these microsoftian moves they are making things go worse and worse. I know MANY, MANY folks that simply are so upset with thgese kinds of moves that they've either switched or gone into "I'll get a new Mac every 3 years."

There are plenty of good reasons to be upset with Apple (for instance, buying a software company that makes cross-platform software and then cancelling the non-Mac OS X version). The iPods are not one of those reasons. Get over it.

LinuxGigolo

May 1, 2003, 11:21 AM

I'm not gonna whine about not getting solitare, parachute, on-the-go playlists, etc... and I appreciate the fact that Apple gave me AAC (though had they not, they'd have to wait for more people to buy new iPods before their Music Service could be a huge success...), but what I don't appreciate is the fact that the 1.3 Update made the interface uglier. I don't need 'Backlight' in my main menu... I do, however, like having 'About' there. The update puts backlight there with no way to remove it, and the ability to change the main menu is a feature of iPod Software 2.0 ... not 1.3. That's my only complaint.

Flowbee

May 1, 2003, 12:02 PM

Maybe apple could offer 2.0 as a paid upgrade to older iPod owners. I'd pay 30 bucks or so for it. Apple would be wise to do that, because if they don't, I'm sure someone else will figure out a way to get 2.0 onto the old Pods. Just give them a few weeks.

deepkid

May 1, 2003, 12:20 PM

[i]

*snip*
Sure, I may not know every last technical detail about the new ipods vs the old ones, but I know there is absolutely no technical barrier that would prevent apple from making 2.0 available to current ipod owners. There's just no way that those features would somehow be impossible to impliment.

The other thing is, these are not major new features, they're just nice little things that really should have been in from the start.

For 99% of the people out there, the updated software is not going to be enough to make them buy a new ipod, and the 1% that is is enough for would have bought a new one anyway, so apple wouldn't lose any saled by releasing 2.0. By not releasing it, they just annoy 700,000 people (or maybe 693,000 not counting the 1% that ordered new 30gb models monday at 2:31pm EST).

*snip*
[/B]

Apple has NEVER promised to provide anything above and beyond your purchase of the iPod. If they had promised to keep the iPod upgraded for free, in perpetuity, at all cost, then that would have pissed me off as a stockholder; it wouldn't make good business sense.

Being reasonable is fine, but giving away the farm is poor business. Apple has been more than reasonable and has never charged for iPod firmware updates, although they could have. They've been swift about updates.

Why SHOULD they give you all of the features of the new pods? They're not the Salvation Army. They don't exist to give things away. They exist to give us the best computing user experience there is, WHILE AIMING TO BE PROFITABLE.

I think that many of those who complain about Apple not doing 'this or that' not only have a poor understanding of how a for-profit corporation works, but misunderstand the specific situation that Apple is in. They're trying to survive and they deserve to be compensated for what they do.

Would you rather that Apple make less money, report horrible earnings and die off?

What would you complain about then.

They're not perfect by any means, but I want them to stick around because using their products make me happy.

I think that Apple has bent over backwards and have been most generous with how swiftly they've updated our pods. They were not obliged.

It irritates me to no end to hear the gripes.

Despite the cost of the iPod, you were not promised a free ride above and beyond the original sale. They didn't make you buy when you did.

I was one of the first to buy the iPod after introduction and I realized the consequences, but I've had mostly joy (outside of battery issues). I'm buying a new iPod. Hell I'll give my old one to a friend, keep it as a loaner or charity or something. It's not a lost cause.

They're not obligated to tell you when a new product is coming; that would be foolish and would give the competition an edge.

It makes me wonder if these sort of gripes are a personality flaw indicator that causes one to try this with every situation in life? Or are they just picking on Apple?

iSmell

May 1, 2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by KLFloyd
Ok, you should have just stopped when you said you DON'T know every technical detail about the new iPod. Unless you work for Apple and were on the design team you don't know what the differences are between the old and new versions. Bottom line is no one outside Apple currently knows if the old iPods will even support 2.0.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the last 4 months you knew iPod updates were coming.

I thought the point of my post was pretty clear, but people seem to have missed it.

First of all, I don't work at apple and I don't know the specific specs of the new vs the old iPods, but since I have not been living under a rock, I know that the original iPods were designed to be more powerful than they really needed to be to play mp3s. This is why people have hacked the thing to add newsreaders, run linux, etc. It is also why people have been clamouring for apple to add more PDA-like functions, because it is clear that the hardware is capable of supporting more features than Apple has implimented. Apple responded by adding some features, like contacts, but they wanted to keep the iPod as primarily a music player, so they limited the features that they decided to add. Apple added AAC support to old iPods so that current owners could use the new store. I guarauntee you that AAC support takes up at least 100 times more code than on-the-go playlists, changing star ratings (appears to be a new feature, as yet unmentioned - check the tech specs page) and customizing the main menu. That said, I suppose it is theoretically possible that the implimentation of AAC support just filled my little iPods firmware brain to the rim, spilling frothy code-head over onto the table, leaving not a single kilobyte free for an on-the-go playlist, so Apple's iPod software team hung their collective heads in sorrow for not being able to deliver these usefull features to us old iPod owners, who had asked so nicely for them in the first place, becuase, darnit, they just plain couldn't. It's possible, but it's NOT VERY LIKELY.
Apple decided to tease us old iPod owners and say "hey, you know all those handy features you guys have been suggesting for the last year or so? You remember, queuing up songs on you pod, changing the ratings? Guess what, they're available now. All you have to do, is buy a NEW iPod! Aren't we great? Give us money!"

Now like I said, I'm not an idiot. I know stuff gets updated and I don't expect my Powerbook 100 to run Jaguar, and I don't think the computer/iPod analogy holds much water anyway, but it seems clear to me (even though I don't work at apple) that they could easily give us these features--that I personally requested several months ago through the feedback page--if they really wanted to.

So my point is not that we deserve free updates forever just for doing apple the favor of buying their product. My point it that there is (MOST LIKELY) no barrier to Apple giving us these features and they would (MOST LIKELY) not be missing out on any sales by making them available. So by not making them available, they are just being annoying. So I am going to annoy them back through the feedback page and I encourage others to do likewise.

As for me living under a rock, I have been writing a thesis for the last 4 months, which is like living under a rock, but not quite as fun, and I still new iPod updates were coming. I also new old iPods would support ACC and that the new ones would be ugly. None of this mattered to me much though, because I was happily listening to the iPod I bought 8 months ago, wishing only that I could lower the star rating on that one crappy song on Give Up without having to go back to my computer.

Off to complain to apple....

iSmell

May 1, 2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by deepkid
They're not obligated to tell you when a new product is coming; that would be foolish and would give the competition an edge.

It makes me wonder if these sort of gripes are a personality flaw indicator that causes one to try this with every situation in life? Or are they just picking on Apple?

Ack, no sooner do I respond to one mindless post than another even more mindless one pops up.

I never said they should have told us new iPods were coming. I never said they should make every new feature available for free forever or most any of the other stuff you said I said.

Apple should give us these feaures because it wouldn't be hard for them to do, it probably wouldn't cost them much of anything, and they probably won't lose sales because of it, because these features are not enough to make most people buy a new iPod.

Is that unreasonable? Is that a sign of a personality flaw on my part? Can you actually read, or are you just relatively well trained monkey?

Back to complaining....

sparks9

May 1, 2003, 01:44 PM

sparks9

May 1, 2003, 01:46 PM

Please let's end all this COMPLAINING AND WHINING about OLD iPods and post joyfull posts about the NEW iPod.

Flowbee

May 1, 2003, 01:51 PM

Oh, joy. :rolleyes:

mstecker

May 1, 2003, 01:59 PM

To those who are complaining that Apple is "screwing" you because they're not releasing 2.0 for old iPods:

It costs, and costs a lot to stay current in this game. You have an old iPod. I had an old iPod. You wanted the current features, I wanted the current features. I sold my 20G on eBay for $350 about a month ago ($150 loss), and purchased a new one on Monday (10G) for $299. Now, I did downgrade (never used the remote and the case included with the "better" and "best" models is worthless anyway). Let's say I had bought the 30G for $499, I'd be out $150.

I don't even want to think about the loss that I take every year selling my laptop. I usually lose about 40% from the new price, and get gouged on the other end because I'm buying the latest and greatest (12"pb this time). It's usually about a $1200 delta.

Am I compaining? No. $1200/year is a fair price (to me, anwyay) to always have a current laptop, and $150/year is a fair price to have the latest and greatest iPod.

YMMV.

M.

Snorlax

May 1, 2003, 02:10 PM

How about the sound quality?

I always tought the sound quality on the old ipods to be a little weak, especially the bass and when you put bass booster on it started cracking up...(and battery got drained faster!)

Well you lucky bastards who got your ipods already, what do you think? It would be nice with a comparison with the old ones..

Chip Chanko

May 1, 2003, 02:13 PM

I really think we'll get 2.0 or a newer version (2.1 for all ipods?). Remember when the Ipod for Windows came out? I'm pretty sure that its firmware was a newer version than the firmware on the Mac Ipods. Didn't it take a month or so for everyone to have the revisions? The same has been true with revisions for touch/scrollwheel ipods. They haven't all come out at the same time (and I'm sure that there were statements from apple saying "1.26 is only for touchwheel ipods" or the like). We're all going crazy and the new ipods haven't even been offically released yet. Give it time. I mean...there aren't even USB2 drivers finished yet for the NEW ipods! It seems to me that apple was just swamped getting this thing launched.

vanillamike

May 1, 2003, 02:22 PM

I can't wait to get my hands on a new 30 GB solitaire player......... I mean music player :p

I have decided the 30 GB its the best value if you go by cost per GB like when you are buying a hard drive for your computer.

10 GB = $29.99 per GB
15 GB = $26.60 per GB
30 GB = 16.60 per GB

Now I just have to look under the couch cushions for $499.

Mike

P.S. I still wish hey had released the slim 20GB.

Flowbee

May 1, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Snorlax
How about the sound quality?

I always tought the sound quality on the old ipods to be a little weak, especially the bass and when you put bass booster on it started cracking up...(and battery got drained faster!)

Well you lucky bastards who got your ipods already, what do you think? It would be nice with a comparison with the old ones..

I think it's more of an earbud problem than an iPod problem. My "old" iPod sounds great with a decent pair of headphones (Koss PortaPro).

iJon

May 1, 2003, 02:53 PM

i hate the new parachute game, it sucks, back to bricks for me. im still getting used to the touch buttons now, other than that i love it. ipod 2.0 is nice too.
iJon

Mudbug

May 1, 2003, 02:59 PM

:rolleyes: Originally posted by iSmell
I think we should complain to apple in this case.

That's fine. Please do. Just stop complaining about it in here. If you're upset about the iPod situation and not running new software on your old iPod, send it to me. I'd be happy with it. It would already do a million-billion times more stuff than my current mp3 player, and would have that "cool" apple look to it. As opposed to my handy-dandy 2TB block of air mp3 player, which I affectionately call "the whistle." :):rolleyes:

stephny

May 1, 2003, 03:22 PM

i'm so excited!! i've been waiting for "next tuesday" for months. i will be in line waiting to cash out at 6 pm sharp for the 15 gig. i'm going straight from there to catch a train and won't even have songs on it to listen to until i get back. i'll just stare at it and hold it for a while. now i will be one of the people walking down the street with the blessed white earbuds!

deepkid

May 1, 2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by iSmell
Ack, no sooner do I respond to one mindless post than another even more mindless one pops up.

Back to complaining....

On the contrary. It's more like a sobering adjustment has you dizzied from a frazzled state.

You were out and out complaining and we've put reality in your face. Admit it and move on.

Monkeypoo

May 1, 2003, 03:23 PM

ijon, how did you get your ipod so fast? I thought the earliest people would get them is friday. I guess thursday is close enough. What do you plan on doing to protect damage to the firewire connection on the bottom?
I wish we had an apple store in new orleans. At least I live down the road from the Apple Shoppe so next week when they get a floor model in, I'm going to go check this thing out. They had the old one behind a plastic cover and I'm hoping that I'll get to hold the thing in my hand if there's not too many people there when I go (doubt it but I can dream can't I?).
I'm so tempted to divide the total cost of my ipod among my 3 main bank accounts...$157 from 1 account doesn't look as scary as $469 from 1 account (hurray for being a student!). And if I subside on rice and multivitamins and special K for the next few weeks...hmmm...weight loss and a new ipod!

Snowy_River

May 1, 2003, 03:48 PM

I'm not sure that Apple's statement is all that vague:

iPod software 2.0 and its features are only compatible with new iPods.

iPod software 1.3 allows existing iPod customers to play back AAC music purchased from the iTunes Music Store or ripped from a user's CD collection on their iPod.

Gayle
AppleCare Discussions

I am firmly in the camp of people that hope for a version 1.4 that will be compatible with older iPods. (Or, for that matter, a version 2.1, as someone else mentioned.)

However, I am happy with my iPod. I just think that it's really in Apple's best interest not to burn bridges. I'm afraid that there are a lot of people that do and will feel 'betrayed' by Apple for not providing some sort of upgrade path. (BTW, I'm not one of them. For the most part, I really don't care about the enhancements over and above the ability to play AACs which we have with 1.3.)

j33pd0g

May 1, 2003, 04:23 PM

Actually, even though I don't have a "new" iPod, I will be using my "old" iPod until the day you can no longer connect to it via the version of iTunes that renders it (the "old" iPod) useless. That doesn't mean I won't buy a "new" iPod, I may buy a new one to use at work. I could keep the old one at home or for on the go.

BTW, what happens if you have two iPods... will it freak iTunes out... would I have to setup another user account?

pyrotoaster

May 1, 2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I am firmly in the camp of people that hope for a version 1.4 that will be compatible with older iPods. (Or, for that matter, a version 2.1, as someone else mentioned.)

However, I am happy with my iPod. I just think that it's really in Apple's best interest not to burn bridges. I'm afraid that there are a lot of people that do and will feel 'betrayed' by Apple for not providing some sort of upgrade path. (BTW, I'm not one of them. For the most part, I really don't care about the enhancements over and above the ability to play AACs which we have with 1.3.)
Right on, Snowy_River! It would be in Apple's best interest to release further "old" iPod software updates incoporating at least some of 2.0's features (or just 2.0 for that matter).

First of all, version 1.3 is pretty unspectacular. I know people are saying that we should be grateful for AAC, but we shouldn't. We should be content to have AAC support. There's nothing special about getting what's required to play music (music that Apple's making money off of).
It would be like if 10.3 required 256 MBs of RAM (not that it will, but I'm trying to make a point), so Apple decided to ship all new machines with 256 MB RAM instead of 128. That's not something we would be grateful for, it would be a necessary change, which is exactly what 1.3 is.

I'm actually kinda annoyed by 1.3 because they moved the backlight selection into the main menu (of course, if they included the UI customization of 2.0, I could do something about that). I don't use the backlight often because it's a battery drain, and when I do I just hold down the Menu button.

Secondly, there's the fact that Apple's holding out on the next Windows update. I know that's not unusual, but when you think about it there's no reason to give 1.3 to Windows users. They don't have the iTMS/AAC deal (yet), so why give them a software update centered around AAC support.

Instead, Windows users are waiting on the next software update, coming in early May. Whether that update (which should be ready any day now) is 1.3 or 1.3.1 or 1.4 or 2.0 or I.IV or whatever is obviously debatable, but there's definately a possibility here.

Apple may have just wanted to wait and release 2.0 (or something with similar features) after the new iPods were available. They released 1.3 so people go gung-ho at the iTMS. And then they quietly and vaguely stated that 2.0 wasn't coming to older Pods, hoping that people really into the new features but on the fence about buying a new iPod would fork over some cash.

While features like the text notes and the new games (although I would love to have Solitaire) are minor things, On-the-go Playlists and the UI customization aren't. Many people make the point that Apple should've have the major new features available long ago, but I'll just be happy if they let us have them without shelling out $300.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, all we can really do is wait and see what Apple does - and doesn't - do.

iSmell

May 1, 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by deepkid
On the contrary. It's more like a sobering adjustment has you dizzied from a frazzled state.

You were out and out complaining and we've put reality in your face. Admit it and move on.

Wrong again!

I admitted I was complaining, but not about what the two people that I quoted said I was complaining about. I think it is a very reasonable complaint, but they didn't seem to care exactly what I was complaining about, and nobody has given a good reason why apple shouldn't give us the features of 2.0. And as for the people that are telling me not to complain because I should be happy just to have an iPod, apologize, but I thought this was a forum for open discussion, but I realize now it is a place for people who don't have iPods to talk about iPods. My mistake.
If you think I should just be happy with my iPod and shut up, that's fine. I am happy with it. But I would be happier if I could change ratings and make a play list on the go. So I have posted here to encourage other ipod owners to complain to apple, like I have.

Now back to my "frazzled state"

iJon

May 1, 2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Monkeypoo
ijon, how did you get your ipod so fast? I thought the earliest people would get them is friday. I guess thursday is close enough. What do you plan on doing to protect damage to the firewire connection on the bottom?
I wish we had an apple store in new orleans. At least I live down the road from the Apple Shoppe so next week when they get a floor model in, I'm going to go check this thing out. They had the old one behind a plastic cover and I'm hoping that I'll get to hold the thing in my hand if there's not too many people there when I go (doubt it but I can dream can't I?).
I'm so tempted to divide the total cost of my ipod among my 3 main bank accounts...$157 from 1 account doesn't look as scary as $469 from 1 account (hurray for being a student!). And if I subside on rice and multivitamins and special K for the next few weeks...hmmm...weight loss and a new ipod!
one of my online friends got to play with one i forgot where, it may have been the conference, hell if i know i actually havent played it but he told me it sucked. he also said the the new ipods come with two port protectores for the one on the dock and the firewire, hopefully that will keep it clean, ill find out tomorrow :) for some reason i thought parachurtes was a game where i have some truck and i catch falling people, dont know why i thought that, he told me its some shooting game with some cannon looking thing in the middle.

iJon

deepkid

May 1, 2003, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by iSmell, his rant in bold

Wrong again!

I admitted I was complaining, but not about what the two people that I quoted said I was complaining about. I think it is a very reasonable complaint, but they didn't seem to care exactly what I was complaining about, and nobody has given a good reason why apple shouldn't give us the features of 2.0.

Of course I did. One simple reason would be to sell more iPods. There's nothing unethical about wanting to sell you another iPod. If you say no, your existing iPod should continue to work just fine.

Do you think Sony sends out upgrades for their game consoles or walkmans? Come on you guys are picking on Apple with this one. Your existing iPods are not defective, just without the newest features.

Take cars for instance. It'd be ludicrous to expect BMW to send you an upgrade kit for a 2002 model just because the 2003 model has a new features unrelated to basic performance that yours doesn't.

They shoudn't and aren't obligated to try to keep everybody up-to-date concerning the iPod. I want more people to be tempted to buy new Apple products. It's healthy for them, and for you -- if you really care for the company and it's culture.

For now, they've done what's in their best interest, by adding AAC support for the legacy pods.

In order to sell more iPods to people who want the new features (they are not critical to older iPods functioning!) it makes sense to concentrate on the newest model and let temptation do its thing. If you're not gonna buy a new one now, be patient.

And as for the people that are telling me not to complain because I should be happy just to have an iPod, apologize, but I thought this was a forum for open discussion, but I realize now it is a place for people who don't have iPods to talk about iPods. My mistake.

Ha, I'm qualified to speak to this, because I AM an iPod owner. Have been since they first rolled out.

But come on ... the drama *tear*. Don't try to jerk my emotional chain just because I have an strong opinion that debunks your baseless whining and complaning. Just be prepared for disagreements when you make suggestions, specifially complaining to Apple about something they're not required to do.

Apple deserves to be confronted on some issues, but honestly this is a weak one.

If you think I should just be happy with my iPod and shut up, that's fine. I am happy with it. But I would be happier if I could change ratings and make a play list on the go. So I have posted here to encourage other ipod owners to complain to apple, like I have.

Give them a moment to breathe and you just might get more than what you think you want. They just rolled out a new music service and new iPods. I think people need to be a bit patient and stop bombarding them with negativity.

Don't dampen their spirits. They're actually accomplishing quite a bit, considering the limited resources that they have. Give em a break!

Now back to my "frazzled state"

Why not write them a thank you letter for the nice toys they've made available over the years, instead of reacting negatively?
Wouldn't you want to hear a compliment after you've worked your butt off?

Think about it for a while.

P. S. Don't take my passionate response as a personal attack. Those are not my intentions. However, despite how Apple pisses me off sometimes, I have a pet peeve for obsessive whining and complaining and I think that they get more than they deserve.

Have a good day.

vanillamike

May 1, 2003, 05:41 PM

Not sure if this means it will show up everywhere, but I just called my local apple reseller here in Ottawa Ontario Canada and reserved a 30 GB iPod. They said they are expecting a shipment this weekend, at the latest Monday or Tuesday of next week. Regardless that is sooner then next Friday so there is a possibility that the new iPods could be out in Canada at the same time as the US.

So if you are in Canada keep your eyes peeled.

Mike

Snowy_River

May 1, 2003, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by iJon
:) for some reason i thought parachurtes was a game where i have some truck and i catch falling people, dont know why i thought that, he told me its some shooting game with some cannon looking thing in the middle.

iJon

Boy, that brings back some memories....

I remember playing that game on an Apple IIc. Wow.

For what it's worth, I remember it being fun.

I wonder if they'll bring classic Bolo to the iPod? Or open up some of the APIs so third parties could make other games for the iPod?

I know, I know, it's a music player. And, truth be told, that's all I really want it for. On the rare occasion that I'm in the mood to play a video game, I'm far more likely to be interested in something on my Mac than something on my iPod.

:D

iJon

May 1, 2003, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Boy, that brings back some memories....

I remember playing that game on an Apple IIc. Wow.

For what it's worth, I remember it being fun.

I wonder if they'll bring classic Bolo to the iPod? Or open up some of the APIs so third parties could make other games for the iPod?

I know, I know, it's a music player. And, truth be told, that's all I really want it for. On the rare occasion that I'm in the mood to play a video game, I'm far more likely to be interested in something on my Mac than something on my iPod.

:D
i wonder if apple would have to release the whole source code to the ipod to allow people make games for it. i think this could be so awesome, little apple for the ipod, just really simple things, like games on my ti83+

iJon

Snowy_River

May 1, 2003, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by deepkid

Apple deserves to be confronted on some issues, but honestly this is a weak one.

Give them a moment to breathe and you just might get more than what you think you want. They just rolled out a new music service and new iPods. I think people need to be a bit patient and stop bombarding them with negativity.

Well, DeepKid, I hope that they do come out with further support. My reason for being on the complainers' bandwaggon has little to do with really caring about having these new features. I love my iPod with or without them. My reason is really because I think it looks like a greedy business/marketing decision, which is not like the Apple that I know and love.

Also, I don't think that the automobile market is a good analogy. Neither is the computer model, but it's closer. I think that the closest would be either the PDA or the cell phone.

I've known of many instances with cell phones where the manfacturer offered firmware upgrades which allowed older phones to have access to the same new features as new phones. While, it must be said, this can't go on indefinitely - a phone two or three generations back really can't be upgraded to have the same features for simple hardware issues - it routinely goes on for at least on generation.

The same thing for PDAs. I know that I would have been very upset with Palm if they had come out with a next generation model that could run Palm OS x.x, which was incompatible with my Palm, very shortly after I bought my Palm, even though I bought my Palm knowing that new ones were due out soon.

While, in principle, I agree that Apple has no requirement to provide any updates at all, whether to the iPod, or to FCP, or to OS X, for that matter. Nor are they required to ensure compatibility. But keeping their products long lived is something that Apple customers have come to expect from Apple. If they are, in fact, cutting short the life supported upgrade life of the 'old' iPods, then I'll feel like they are starting down an unwelcome path.

All of that said, I look forward to seeing what Apple does. And for now I am quite happy to wait and see. :)

Snowy_River

May 1, 2003, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by iJon
i wonder if apple would have to release the whole source code to the ipod to allow people make games for it. i think this could be so awesome, little apple for the ipod, just really simple things, like games on my ti83+

iJon

You know, I once wrote a LightCycle game on my TI82. Man, that was a pain. And the worst part was when my batteries ran out and I didn't get new ones in soon enough. The memory was wiped. :(

Needless to say, I didn't rewrite it... ;)

Doctor Q

May 1, 2003, 06:18 PM

Earlier today, the Apple iPod event announcement page (http://www.apple.com/retail/may2/) saidMusical group Glassjaw will appear at the SoHo store. A surprise music act will will perform at The Grove during this event. Come back for details. Now the secret it out. It says Musical group Glassjaw will appear at the SoHo store and BT will perform his “Laptop Symphony - Live Remix Set” at The Grove during this event. However, I don't need/get to go to The Grove. I'm one of 206 people who have already ordered a 30GB iPod from MacMall. I won't have it the first day (and no free T-shirt), but I got $15 off by talking to my "personal sales rep", I get free shipping, and they are getting a shipment of over 3000 of them the end of next week so I'll have it in 2 weeks max.

blackcrayon

May 1, 2003, 06:48 PM

rideahyperLite:

You are the MAN!

i am now the owner of that iPod :)

Funny, first it wouldnt ring up at the register, clerk had to get a sheet to punch the numbers in... Then the alarm went off as i left with it :D

tYNS

May 2, 2003, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by Chip Chanko
Thoughts on posts so far:

1. For the person who said PC's 4 years ago were probably PII 230's...4 years ago I bought a PIII 550 and it still works great. Only things I have added are a second hard drive and a firewire card (for music and ipod). And it runs XP Pro beautifully.

dude, you must have been in the beta labs at intel because the "katmai" P3 processor was introduced in Feb of '99 it ran at 450 mhz....it grew to 600 mhz before It wasn't superceded in april 2000 when coppermine P3's were introduced.

True I probably exaggerated on the p2-233 being the computer around.. but I was just trying to point out that Apple make good quality equipment that lasts the time.

I beg to differ that XP runs decently on anything lower than a p3 .. A p2 running XP is disgustingly slow.

tYNS

May 2, 2003, 12:58 AM

PEOPLE!

please do not state in your messages or even imply that Apple is End of lining the original iPod revisions.

THEY ARE NOT. They will continue to support them.. I can gauarantee you will see more revisions on the iPod firmware.. Just please don't expect features that you did not pay for in the first place..

Any features that are added to the iPod after you purchased it are Bonus' .. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

The only time you should be upset with a company regarding features is when they do not fix obvious operational problems the hinder the functioning of the device.

mclosers

May 2, 2003, 01:16 AM

Tetris would work great with the button combo apple has now. Also how about iSync giving my iPod the weatehr and news instead of me having to have a seprate program (iPod It).
I also have a question. Why is there now a remote port on the new iPods.
I thought the old iPods have a third contact on the headphone plug for that purpose. Maybe it is for something in the future. Also I like the ability to carry my iPod and firewire cable in my pocket rather than having to carry the dock which probably wouldn't fit in one pocket.

Sedulous

May 2, 2003, 01:59 AM

I think they re-designed the headphone jack because the old design was rather fragile. I know mine is cracked and won't work with the remote anymore.

pyrotoaster

May 2, 2003, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by tYNS
The only time you should be upset with a company regarding features is when they do not fix obvious operational problems the hinder the functioning of the device.
My 5 GB iPod still doesn't get 10 hours to a charge (and it only took Apple a year and half to first address that hardware problem.

I'd also contend that the stupid backlight in the main menu hinders my iPod. The least Apple could do is get rid of that pointless change.

sparks9

May 2, 2003, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by j33pd0g
Actually, even though I don't have a "new" iPod, I will be using my "old" iPod until the day you can no longer connect to it via the version of iTunes that renders it (the "old" iPod) useless. That doesn't mean I won't buy a "new" iPod, I may buy a new one to use at work. I could keep the old one at home or for on the go.

BTW, what happens if you have two iPods... will it freak iTunes out... would I have to setup another user account?

Steve Jobs said that you can load your bought music to unlimited iPod, so i guess you can plug as many as you want into one computer.

Mudbug

May 2, 2003, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Boy, that brings back some memories....

I remember playing that game on an Apple IIc. Wow.

For what it's worth, I remember it being fun.

I wonder if they'll bring classic Bolo to the iPod? Or open up some of the APIs so third parties could make other games for the iPod?

I know, I know, it's a music player. And, truth be told, that's all I really want it for. On the rare occasion that I'm in the mood to play a video game, I'm far more likely to be interested in something on my Mac than something on my iPod.

:D

I had more fun playing Loderunner on my Apple IIe than I could stand... made it to level 80-something before learning that it was summer and I could go outside again... :)
It was a simple game, but one that could pretty easily be made to run on an iPod.

Chip Chanko

May 2, 2003, 09:04 AM

I bought a PIII 550 from Dell on June 12, 1999...just checked my receipt. So almost 4 years ago (3.9). Yeah...XP would suck on a PII. I don't think the G4 had come out yet at the time and my PC still runs just as good as our 1st get G4's at work!

Originally posted by tYNS
dude, you must have been in the beta labs at intel because the "katmai" P3 processor was introduced in Feb of '99 it ran at 450 mhz....it grew to 600 mhz before It wasn't superceded in april 2000 when coppermine P3's were introduced.

Timothy

May 2, 2003, 10:18 AM

OK...my iPod is due for delivery today. Something tells me I'll get little to no work done...:D

matty8r

May 2, 2003, 11:03 AM

rather than the normal two on stereo headphones. The plug looks like those that come with the first dual usb ibooks. On the ibook, the third section was for video...
I realize that there are only two speakers on the head phone, but it may well be a place holder for now. Perhaps we'll see video out, or (I hope I hope I hope) audio in on future revisions of the pod.

Matty

matty8r

May 2, 2003, 11:29 AM

New One:
http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/61900/61900_2.jpg

old one:
http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/61900/61900_1.jpg

GroundLoop

May 2, 2003, 11:41 AM

my new toy....

sparks9

May 2, 2003, 12:09 PM

I want reviews of the new 'Pod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NoW!!!!!!

tYNS

May 2, 2003, 12:50 PM

My thoughts regarding the new iPod jack...

There is obviously going to be a video implementation into the iPods. a 3 channel jack is generally an indication of this. 2 audio 1 video. The extra connector is more than likely for a remote control type of device.

What most likely will happen is that iMovie and iPhoto are next on the list for compatibility with the iPod. It will continue with the Digital Hub strategy and offer complete integration of hardware and software.

The new iPod's will bring the ability to save your iMovies and iPhoto albums to your iPod. With a simple RCA cable hook-up to any TV you will be able to carry around your photo albums and home movies to share with friends and family.

The iPod will be the ultimate portable personal device.

If this were to happen, BE EXPECTING an even newer revision of the iPod to be introduced in 1-2 years that will tote a Colour display to able to view your photo albums and movies right from your iPod

this most likely is what will happen. MP4 decompression is definietly implemented inside of the iPod. Apple definietly is moving forward with this codec. MP4 definitely offers fantastic compress and playback of video. The iPod definitely has the processing power to handle this. I see by next january you will see iMovie and iPhoto implementation.

This is considerably down the road, but a possible On-line video store may be next as well.. (VERY far in the future) pending the success of the music store and the advent of higher-speed broadband technologies.

pinks

May 2, 2003, 12:58 PM

Special request from the UK!

Would it be possible for anyone going to one of the Apple Store events tonight to take a few pictures, perhaps a sly sound recording, even some video :cool: for all us Mac users who cannot experience these live occasions for ourselves because of our locations outwith the US?

I realise that people are often a bit touchy about this kind of recording inside retail premises... but if it doesn't cause any trouble, it would be fantastic to see, hear and experience! It may even start to make up for the fact that we can't (yet) use the music service.

For anyone going tonight, have fun and do please let us know what it was like!

- p

blackcrayon

May 2, 2003, 01:47 PM

Actually no, the new headphones only have 2 white "lines" on them, just like a standard set of stereo headphones... The remote jack has 2 prongs now.. one is the "headphone" jack except with 3 "lines", and the other is the little remote connector. Who knows if the remote connector is more than just an attempt to movie it from the headphone jack. Maybe it allows for greater input (which would make a recording device possible?).

Another place a recording device could be used is at the *bottom* of the new ipod.. On the new connector... Since this connector will allow for firewire AND USB (and it already does audio out- since the dock has a line-out jack)... Perhaps a USB based audio-in attachment would be possible (where a firewire one wasn't practical/possible). The main thing here though is Apple releasing a dev kit for the firmware- which they haven't done in the past...

steve-not-jobs

May 2, 2003, 01:57 PM

Does anybody know if these ship with some songs pre-loaded? I won't be able to get to my mac for 2 weeks but want to get this today.

Mudbug

May 2, 2003, 02:00 PM

I went by Best Buy here in Sleazeport at lunch, and they had nothing but (old) 10 and 20 GB models in the case, and it didn't exactly look like they were scurrying to make room for the new ones. Of course, I've never seen an employee at Best Buy scurry for anything other than a smoke break, but that's something else for another forum.

matty8r

May 2, 2003, 02:08 PM

Edit: Ahah! I see what the other poster is taking about. It's the remote that has three. Still this leaves the possibility for other cables to be plugged into this jack...

What I'm interested in is the third line on the Jack. As I said before, this scheme was used in the iBook for stereo audio AND video output. So if the picture above, with the remote stuff on the second prong, is indeed accurate, what are they doing with the third section?

Thanks,
Matt

Doctor Q

May 2, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by sparks9
I want reviews of the new 'Pod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NoW!!!!!! Yes, sir! Right away, sir! CNET review (http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342420-1304-21165696.html)

Some people commenting on the article claim that you can't replace the battery in an iPod. True or false?

sparks9

May 2, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Yes, sir! Right away, sir! CNET review (http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-6342420-1304-21165696.html)

Some people commenting on the article claim that you can't replace the battery in an iPod. True or false?

Nice! That's the way I like it. :cool:

Not a very good review though. Nothing new.

rickvanr

May 2, 2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Stella
NO!! There will be NO iPod version 2 software for older iPods, stop kidding yourselves.

Apple are ****** us over.

I bought a iPod, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to spend another $CA700 more money to get the latest software.

There is little reason why apple can't release v2 software for the older iPods.

i totally agree with the canadian money part, altho the dollar is making a comeback

bfj

May 3, 2003, 01:21 AM

OK, i think i've read most of the posts (the ones with senseless whining i skimped over after the first 3 pages :/ )
anyway, i think all of you should be happy with the update that you DID get, aac support is a big deal....

but everyone is busy bitching about the fact that they don't have solitaire, can't customize the main menu, can't do this, blah blah blah...but they forget one thing...

You've still got what you paid for, an mp3 player....well, you've got an upgrade, now it's an mp3/aac player. You knew the features when you bought it, those features work, you should be happy. When you bought you iPod, you knew it wasn't a portable solitaire player...why should it be now? The only aspect that affects the usability of the ipod, aac, was updated.

Anyway, i'm not flaming, just hoping that some people look at this realistically, you bought an mp3 player, new ones came out, but they're still mp3 players, and they function the same way...be happy

i'm out

BFJ

tYNS

May 3, 2003, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by blackcrayon
Actually no, the new headphones only have 2 white "lines" on them, just like a standard set of stereo headphones... The remote jack has 2 prongs now.. one is the "headphone" jack except with 3 "lines", and the other is the little remote connector. Who knows if the remote connector is more than just an attempt to movie it from the headphone jack. Maybe it allows for greater input (which would make a recording device possible?).

NO... actually dude.. I looked at them.. you are right there is only 2 bands on the headphone wire.. but the remote wire was 3 bands. mean the new iPods have a HIDDEN FEATURE CHANNEL!

I honestly suspect this to be a video channel. MY sony digital camera has a similar plug with three bands that carries out for 2 audio and a video channel.

Be expecting some really cool new feature of the new iPods! .. even though I own an original iPod.. I am very excited to see what this extra channel is going to do!

gandalf55

May 3, 2003, 10:52 AM

I am the proud owner of an original 5G iPod. I waited at the Northshore Apple Store for mine... it's a newbie iPod. I remember sweating the price - what would my fianceé say when i brought it home?

my original iPod works hard every day. allowing me to transfer code files between home and work. ya, i could use my .mac account, but its slow on the uploads.

it's running 1.3 now - and the battery thing is fixed. i hate the backlight on the main screen too, but for everything else, it still kicks ass!

do i want a 30G? you betcha! do i need games? hell no - i never played breakout. do i need AAC? yes. do i need audio recording? not really. do i need more drive space? maybe... would be nice. do i need playlists on the go? nah. it's cool though. would i like to rearrange my menus? sure - would love that. would i like the lineOut so i can use it with my stereo? would love that.

i think the new music service is wonderful, and the new ipods sexy as hell! but i will wait for a new rev.

i still love my original iPod... and it evidentally loves me right back. i even prefer its mechanical scrollwheel.

apple brought this joy... thank you again Apple.

mclosers

May 3, 2003, 12:00 PM

You all may think this is a dumb question but what is the difference between line out and the regular head phone jack?

Monkeypoo

May 3, 2003, 12:14 PM

I'm also interested in the answer to that question because I can hook up any device with a headphone jack to my stereo system with a $3.00 cord I got from radio shack (I use it to listen to the DVDs that I watch on my PB). Is this line out some sort of sound enhancing feature cause I don't see the need for it to be labelled any differently.

iJon

May 3, 2003, 12:20 PM

im still wating to see how critics compare the new 30gb ipod for 499 to the 60gb zen for 399.

iJon

rickvanr

May 3, 2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by iJon
im still wating to see how critics compare the new 30gb ipod for 499 to the 60gb zen for 399.

iJon

where is the zen 399, the only link i could find for the 60gb zen was for $595

http://www.nomadjukebox.us/products.php?product=zen6.txt&cat=feature

tYNS

May 3, 2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by iJon
im still wating to see how critics compare the new 30gb ipod for 499 to the 60gb zen for 399.

Sorry.. don't think it will take off (atleast not with the intelligent mac community). It will be great for pc's users that are dumb.. But anybody that has been living over the past couple days knows apple has a new service and a new iPod. It was marketted properly so far.

PC users who are tech savy enough know that the Apple Music serice will be available on PC by years end. AAC is the base of it.

WMA file compatibility? wha? do you think Microsoft stands a chance? The only thing microsoft has innovated musically is the sound of your hard earned money being flushed down the toilet.

60 gb would be nice, but look at how ugly that thing is... I can gaurantee all it does is play music.. iPod has nicer features and better interface. plus with this latest mystery record feature and extra feature on the headphone plug??? obviously the iPod ranks high for bigger things to come.

Simply, the iPod is the best digital player.

I can see where you are coming from though.. PC vs. MAC arguement.. The PC is faster megahertz wise.. but has a crappy OS, and shotty thrid party parts... Apple has more refined, elegant, and slightly slower processors (currently) .. because of this slight speed difference, people think they will be getting ripped off..

ah well I prefer having something that works and works well.. PC people want cheap and dirty..

we'll see how it goes though.

iJon

May 3, 2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by tYNS
Sorry.. don't think it will take off (atleast not with the intelligent mac community). It will be great for pc's users that are dumb.. But anybody that has been living over the past couple days knows apple has a new service and a new iPod. It was marketted properly so far.

PC users who are tech savy enough know that the Apple Music serice will be available on PC by years end. AAC is the base of it.

WMA file compatibility? wha? do you think Microsoft stands a chance? The only thing microsoft has innovated musically is the sound of your hard earned money being flushed down the toilet.

60 gb would be nice, but look at how ugly that thing is... I can gaurantee all it does is play music.. iPod has nicer features and better interface. plus with this latest mystery record feature and extra feature on the headphone plug??? obviously the iPod ranks high for bigger things to come.

Simply, the iPod is the best digital player.

I can see where you are coming from though.. PC vs. MAC arguement.. The PC is faster megahertz wise.. but has a crappy OS, and shotty thrid party parts... Apple has more refined, elegant, and slightly slower processors (currently) .. because of this slight speed difference, people think they will be getting ripped off..

ah well I prefer having something that works and works well.. PC people want cheap and dirty..

we'll see how it goes though.
sorry to me or creative. i know the zen sucks, thats why i was saying what critics would say. i wouldnt care about the 60gb because you have to use creatives software to get data to it, ipod mounts as a external device. i was reading my pc gamer and they said the zen was a good buy only if your couldnt afford the ipod.

iJon

tYNS

May 3, 2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by iJon
sorry to me or creative. i know the zen sucks, thats why i was saying what critics would say. i wouldnt care about the 60gb because you have to use creatives software to get data to it, ipod mounts as a external device. i was reading my pc gamer and they said the zen was a good buy only if your couldnt afford the ipod.

iJon

no no.

I ment whatever critics say.. no shot to you at all.. I think people should learn to think for themselves (can get expensive when it comes to hardware though :) ).. there are a lot of really stupid critics out there. Hell everyone is a critic once you think about it. Doesn't mean anyone's opinion is right though.. ;) including my own..

but what the hell I go with what I like...

For instance .. as much as I love iTunes (and I use it often) I still use MacAmp Lite X 1.2 on OS X as my primary MP3 player.. it offers a great plug-in pack to really control your music. It isn't as easy as iTunes and/or as elegant.. But to me this is/was the best Music player(and a say music meaning it covers a lot of formats ogg/mp3/mod/xm/it/med/etc...) for Mac.

iTunes 4 is pretty darn nice though. AAC is slowly getting me to switch over to iTunes completely.. Since MacAmp Lite X is being discontinued... You can actually get a full blown version for free because the project is being discontinued. I recommend checking it out.

damax452

May 3, 2003, 05:38 PM

W000! i got my 15gb ipod today, and i love it! i got it at best buy along with a 4 year service plan ($40 extra). I filled it up with ~1500 songs and it plays like a champ. Awesome product, well done Apple. :D :D :D

vanillamike

May 3, 2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by rickvanr
where is the zen 399, the only link i could find for the 60gb zen was for $595

http://www.nomadjukebox.us/products.php?product=zen6.txt&cat=feature

I was just checking out creative's nomad website (http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_zen/) and I don't see any mention of a 60GB Zen, so that 60GB Zen for $595 must be hacked. Unless somone knows something creative doesn't.

Mike

* my bad spoke too soon found a press release (http://www.americas.creative.com/corporate/pressroom/releases/welcome.asp?ID=334&nav=2003)

vanillamike

May 3, 2003, 08:11 PM

I still wish apple offered a wired remote (http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=540&category=525&maincategory=10) like creative does for its Zen. It has an FM tuner, an LCD, and a mic all built in. This would be handy especially with the new found recording capabilities the new iPods seem to have.

Mike

iJon

May 4, 2003, 02:29 AM

is it just me or do these ipods sounda hell of a lot louder. i cant even put mine all the way up without it hurting my ears, all the way up on my old ipod sometimes didnt prove to be enough.

iJon

frinky23

May 4, 2003, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by mclosers
You all may think this is a dumb question but what is the difference between line out and the regular head phone jack?

Line out is for pre-amp level output. It is intended to be connected to a separate device (home stereo, etc.) that will do final amplification and volume control. While you could plug headphones into the line out jack, it wouldn't be very loud and you wouldn't be able to adjust the volume. Also, any equalizer effects probably wouldn't be carried through the line out jack.

You can use a headphone jack like a line out jack, except that doing so introduces the capability for over-driving the input and getting distortion. You would have to find the optimal volume level or your sound quality wont be as good. And if any equalizer effects are used they would be over-amplified by the final amplifier and combined with the fact that you are likely to adjust the equalization again at the final device, you lose sound quality.

Without a line out jack, you must use the headphone jack but find the optimal volume settings and turn off any equalization. But the sound quality still wouldn't be as good - the signal is passed through the iPod amplifier and then through the final device amplifier, both of which introduce distortion. The line out jack would eliminate one of the sources of distortion. However, most people in most situations wouldn't hear any differences.

RogueLdr

May 4, 2003, 03:50 AM

I must admit to spending more than a few minute ssearching for solitaire and on the fly playlist features on my 1G iPod. And I must admit to being a little upset that I couldn't do all of those things...for about two seconds....

I am by no means an apologist for Apple, but I am most assuredly an Apple gadget lover. I think Apple hit it dead on when they did new iPods at the same time as the iTunes Music Store. My girlfriend saw the Music Store in action on my PM and, after seeing me with my iPod for almost a year without a single look of envy, decided she just had to have an iPod.

Now, she couldn't care a lick for any feature on the iPod but its music playback feature, so my 10GB 1G iPod is perfect for her. At the same time, I can free myself up for the 3G iPod and use all of the new features.

If my situation didn't allow for me to buy a new iPod, would I still be upset that I can't move to iPod 2.0? Not really. I mean, of course I want to be able to do everything that the new machines can do, but I bought an MP3 player, not a Game Boy/Treo. I will never hold Apple accountable for putting new features on new products that entice users of their current products to upgrade. That is the whole point when selling digital devices after all, right?

babu

May 4, 2003, 04:11 AM

:D I am so happy. I had to go to my parents' house on the 1st because I thought that my iPod was there a day early, but it was just the creature speakers, the line out to my stereo, and the new fm broadcaster that allows you to go in and play your pod in a car without having to use that stupid tape thing, So even though I didn't get what I was waiting for, I got some pretty cool stuff.
BUT, THE NEXT DAY.... I woke up around 1 and had to go to the shrink to get my pills:p but get what was waiting for me in my mother's car. Yep the one and the only mr. pod. I WAS SO EXCITED!!!!. AFTER THE DR. THOUGH I TORE INTO THE PACKAGE. I got home and I was tearing into the pacage but not let anything get lost. I turned it one, and there it was the brand new iPod. I got the 30 gig one so I got all of these things I got the case, the dock, the bag that comes with the case, the cool redesigned 'phones with the cool new remote. I don't get what the deal was with all of the people going on about the three pronged plug. I had a min-disc player and remote plug was just the same, so don't keep going on about it's secret powers. It is just the same... so. But the new buttons are so neat, I love the ways that the buttons work. They are just the same as on the kuub. I lent it out to my parents to use in their office so that the person that works for them could do a few things at once. But the buttons are just the same. I know because on the cube I always was acidently always was hitting the power button in the middle of doing something. so it drove me crazy all the time. But the new buttons and the scroll wheel is really good, but you bump into the buttons alot. but I am working on that. The games aren't that cool really the solitair is almost impossible to work with and the parachute game doesn't make sense beacause you lose points fo blowing up the helicopters. And then I was wondering if any of you guys got the brick game in the 1.3 download, so that was no big thing, snd then unlike the old iPod you can't restart the game by clicking on the enter button. But all of the stuff is so great I love that it has so much more space then my 1st gen. but the glowing orange buttons are way cool, but it doesn't glow like it shows on the apple page. But using it with the music store is great, but I only have a dial up and I ordered like ten albums and I am still downloading them off the net. so that's pretty much it so bye-bye

iMook

May 4, 2003, 01:26 PM

The new plug layout probably indicates that an LCD remote is coming soon, since MiniDisc LCD remotes all have very similar plug layouts (phones jack + separate data bar).

As for mics: How good can a mic built into an LCD remote the size of a stick of gum be? I'm not sure that putting a mic in the said up-and-coming remote would please those who would use such a thing heavily.

Edit: Is the new LCD backlight white or blue?

herocero

May 4, 2003, 02:36 PM

so me and anothser mac buddy had an idea why our old ipods (seems kinda wierd to say, old ipods :-) may not see new iPod 2.0 software revisions. the culprit may be on the go playlists.
think of the extra hardware logic it would take to create a playlist on the fly in a normal play mode. the software update i'm sure would be a snap, but the older ones simply may not have the hardware ability to flag songs and create a new playlist file.
no huge loss, i wouldn't be a big fan of scrolling through my 2,000 songs on my 20g to flag them. my new 15" 970 PB will do it fast enough for me :-D

cheers to u new ipod users, and cheers to apple for the new hybrid windoze/mac ipod (a great manufacturing move i thought they should have done from the start)

vanillamike

May 4, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by iMook
As for mics: How good can a mic built into an LCD remote the size of a stick of gum be? I'm not sure that putting a mic in the said up-and-coming remote would please those who would use such a thing heavily.

Edit: Is the new LCD backlight white or blue?

I hear what you are saying but a mic is a mic, if it comes included and it sucks then I can see your reasoning but I doubt Apple would release a sucky attachment to a high end product. What really caught my eye about the ZEN remote was the LCD and the FM tuner. I think the Apple product design people could make a good thing even better for the iPod.

From the pictures on Apple's web site and from watching the MSN feed it looks as though the backlight is still a light blue on the "new" iPods.

I'm still waiting to get my hands on a 30GB, hopefully this week.

Mike

rwagoner

May 5, 2003, 02:59 AM

I like the old iPod better anyway (except for the thicker size when compared with the new ones). Rumor has it that the battery runs longer on the old one as well.

That being said, I think the complaints about 2.0 not being supported in Gen 1 and 2 iPods is similar to me complaining to General Motors because they brought out a higher horsepower engine for the Silverado truck in 2000, even though I had just bought my brand-new truck in 1999.

Companies add new features to products all the time. Just because someone on this forum (or elsewhere) said that the new (2.0) features can be added to the earlier iPods doesn't make it so. Until you know for a fact that the old ones can indeed support the features, then you have absolutely no complaint.

Besides ... just what is so great about the new features? I doubt I'd use any of them. What I'd like from Apple is a case that has a belt clip that doesn't break.