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MacRumors
Dec 5, 2006, 12:41 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider publishes (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2282) more information relating to Prudential analyst Jesse Tortora's claims that Apple may have a longer term interest in the video game market:

"We think the video game market represents a distinct possibility for Apple, especially considering that it recently announced the availability of video games for its iPod through its iTunes"

Tortura speculates a gaming console device could be "morphed" out of a combination of the existing Mac mini and iTV, as well as the possibility of a handheld gaming device based on the iPod.

Clearly, entering such a competitive market would be difficult, but the analyst speculates that Apple may be feeling some pressure from potential iTunes competitors in the form of movie-download services tied to the latest consoles.

Rumors of Apple's entry into the gaming market are not new, as there have been previous reports of Apple actively recruiting game developers (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060527015327.shtml), but in his research note, Tortura reportedly claims that Apple has hired new software and hardware game developers.

If you have a copy of this research note, please contact us (mailto:webmaster@macrumors.com?Research Note).



Machead III
Dec 5, 2006, 12:47 PM
If Apple could release some kind of box that you connect to your Mac to augment it's graphical and general gaming performance, that would play existing games and then develop 1st party games for it, I'd be first in line.

But it'd have to work with bootcamp.

I don't see a regular console though. The market is saturated as it is. Get gaming sorted on Macs first.

menziep
Dec 5, 2006, 12:48 PM
Bring on the iGame!:D

Evangelion
Dec 5, 2006, 12:48 PM
Nintendo.

You know it makes sense.

pdpfilms
Dec 5, 2006, 12:49 PM
No way. If apple ever was to do this (disregarding their first attempt), they would not be looking into it now. With the ultimate failure of the PS3, I'd think they'd be very cautious to enter the gaming market.

Unless they're working on a handheld, which I could almost see them developing, for release in a year. I'm skeptical.

EDIT: And just because game consoles are offering movie downloads does not mean that Apple's iTunes store needs to offer true games. And what's with everyone corrolating Apple with Nintendo?

j-a-x
Dec 5, 2006, 12:49 PM
Sounds like a bad idea to me.
Maybe a partnership or something like that could work where apple allows iTunes to be compatible with an existing console, but apple making their own console gaming machine sounds like it just won't work.
Remember the Pippin?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

arn
Dec 5, 2006, 12:50 PM
ya, I think this buying season shows how competitive the gaming console market is. That being said, it's not hard to imagine that Apple is at least seriously keeping tabs on this area, just to remain competitive.

arn

war
Dec 5, 2006, 12:50 PM
Is a gaming console from Apple really necessary? They should just partner up with nintendo or buy them if they really want to get into that market. Nintendo is the Apple of the gaming market as it is now. It would be an interesting combination.

Chaszmyr
Dec 5, 2006, 12:51 PM
Historically, there has been a division between the style of computer games and console games, but that line has been getting progressively thinner. It would be interesting if Apple managed to blur it more, and launch a successful video game console with games that were also Mac compatible... It would be very, very difficult to pull of, but it could reshape the whole landscape of home electronics.

Many companies are trying to create one device that handles all things digital, and does it in the main stream (Sony and Microsoft included), and Apple is in at least as good of a position to pull it off as anyone else is.

KindredMAC
Dec 5, 2006, 12:52 PM
How are we to know that maybe Apple is hiring these people to start work on incorporating Game download into iTunes? Aspyr said they were going to offer something similar this fall, which never came to fruitition.

Apple would be nuts to try and enter the gaming market at this moment. Xbox 360 is the new king of the hill, Wii is making a new hill for itself and PS3 has disappointed too many people to be a threat over the course of the next 6-12 months. If Sony goes deep six and the Wii eats a bad Mario mushroom, falls over and dies, then Apple could consider throwing their hat into the ring.

Along with iTunes downloads maybe Apple is really looking at getting aggressive with the hard core PC gamers. Think about it, Apple has gotten into the minds of average consumers and close to being an office notion, but what market is currently almost impossible to break into... PC Gamers.

You ask any hard core PC Gamer if they would switch to Apple and they would laugh at you. This is the perfect next "Get a Mac" or "Switchers" style of marketing warfare.

pdpfilms
Dec 5, 2006, 12:55 PM
Along with iTunes downloads maybe Apple is really looking at getting aggressive with the hard core PC gamers. Think about it, Apple has gotten into the minds of average consumers and close to being an office notion, but what market is currently almost impossible to break into... PC Gamers.

You ask any hard core PC Gamer if they would switch to Apple and they would laugh at you. This is the perfect next "Get a Mac" or "Switchers" style of marketing warfare.

This is a good point. What if Apple's just looking into getting more games for the Mac? And have them available to download on iTunes? That doesn't seem as outlandish as a video game console like the Pippin to compete with the 360 or Wii.

MrFirework
Dec 5, 2006, 12:56 PM
Nintendo.

You know it makes sense.

Yes. And have you seen the DS... the white one... if I didn't know what it was and saw it from accross the room I'd swear it was an iPod. So, see there... the move is already almost complete. :)

Chaszmyr
Dec 5, 2006, 12:56 PM
How are we to know that maybe Apple is hiring these people to start work on incorporating Game download into iTunes?

We don't. Moreover, they could be thinking about a portable game device rather than a console device.

Apple would be nuts to try and enter the gaming market at this moment. Xbox 360 is the new king of the hill, Wii is making a new hill for itself and PS3 has disappointed too many people to be a threat over the course of the next 6-12 months.

Even if Apple has definite plans to enter the video game market, I wouldn't expect to see an Apple console until 2009.

J Radical
Dec 5, 2006, 12:56 PM
I can't see it happening. The home console market is already crowded with MS Sony and Nintendo. A new console would require developers to support a newbie platform, investing millions in a product unlikely to take off.


Apple would also be unwilling to accept the a lost on each console sold: even at $600 Sony still loses over $100 on each PS3 sold. The only option is to go into partnership with another company, MS is out since it's Microsoft, Sony is out because they have too much invested in Blu-Ray (an itv rival). That leaves Nintendo, who are historically uninterested in multi purpose games machines.

I'm all for gaming on the mac platform, but MS has PC gaming by the nuts with DX10, and I can't see room in either the home console or portable market. Besides does the mac mini even have a graphics chip?

Sleix
Dec 5, 2006, 12:57 PM
Another Apple gaming rumor. Geez.

After listening to 90% of the idiot savants in the Windows/linux/etc world...it should be obvious that the stigma that the "Mac is not a gaming machine" would stick and it would fail...unless Apple were to join forces with a known gaming system (yay Nintendo?) it'd flop just as badly as say...Nokia and their Ngage POS.

The only reason that Microsoft had the willpower to stay this long so far is that it has the gobs of liquid capital to lose to sustain such a project, otherwise it would've been gone before the 360 would've been even a remote pipe dream in somebody's mind.

EagerDragon
Dec 5, 2006, 01:00 PM
More games for the Mac I undestand and desire, more games for the iPod I can also understand (but don't care). I do not see a console this late in the game. With Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, they got it covered.

Make the Mac more gaming friendly, and make more Mac games or provide more assistance to those making / porting games for the Mac.

Digitaljim
Dec 5, 2006, 01:03 PM
Bring on the iGame!:D

Also possible:

iPlay?
iAmusement?
iConsole?
iBox?
iBoy?

I like the idea of iPlay Core Solo.

X86BSD
Dec 5, 2006, 01:06 PM
I seriously cannot see Apple having an interest in the console market. I think people are over reading into this. I simply think it means more games for the iPod via the iTunes store. Granted I would *love* to believe they are going to make a revolutionary MMORPG game by perhaps buying Cyan (the makers of Myst) and creating some really fascinating revolutionary market altering game. But that's the "Are you on crack?" Apple fan boi side of my brain talking. The reality is much more boring, again I think it's just more in house development of more iPod games via the iTunes store.

-X

Eidorian
Dec 5, 2006, 01:07 PM
http://www.math.purdue.edu/~abarreno/apple_wii.jpg

Someone shop on an Apple logo STAT!

ziwi
Dec 5, 2006, 01:07 PM
Nintendo.

You know it makes sense.


Then they should have done it long ago with Sega - they made great games, but the consoles lacked the push...they should have done it back with Dreamcast...

I don't think they will - it is a loss leader - all the consoles lose money and we all know Apple likes to make more on things than everyone else not give stuff away...;)

orbital
Dec 5, 2006, 01:07 PM
What would be cool is if it wasn't a console but a gateway device to your Mac that let you play the mac games on your TV.

Even better if it could be used with XP or vista games

xli_ne
Dec 5, 2006, 01:07 PM
With the ultimate failure of the PS3

microsoft fanboy i presume?

Teddy's
Dec 5, 2006, 01:08 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. .........:eek:

QCassidy352
Dec 5, 2006, 01:08 PM
I sure hope not. Apple has enough on its plate with music, hardware, and software (and soon, phones). And besides that, the console market is crowded enough as it is. Apple should focus on its core markets and not try to have its finger in every pie.

DallasM
Dec 5, 2006, 01:08 PM
Apple wants to develop games for the Mac. That is where they want their games, on the iMac -not some iBox or something.

I bet they are not trying to make games or play station knockoffs, rather are actually developing tools to make games for the Mac.

Umbongo
Dec 5, 2006, 01:09 PM
I can not believe, or even dare to believe, that Apple would enter this generation of the home games console market. I also think they'd be foolish to believe they could go up against Nintendo in the handheld market. No one has been successful so far. I can't see how it could be a sensable financial move, if they want to move in to more markets there are far better ones out there and I'm sure they could even create at least one new market themselves before we see anything like this.

MacPhreak
Dec 5, 2006, 01:11 PM
Apple has been there, done that. Pippin, anyone? Doubt they'd get back in this late in the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin
http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/

zwilliams07
Dec 5, 2006, 01:11 PM
I just don't see anything of that magnitude coming out of Apple in the near future. They would either have to team up with an existing console producer since it is already the beginning of the 7th generation.

If anything I think Apple would be better off investing their resources into iPod game functionality and OS X gaming tools such as APIs, Toolsets, etc.. Moving into semi-unfamiliar territory as a bad idea.

esaleris
Dec 5, 2006, 01:13 PM
If there's anything that Apple has been, for the last 2 years, it is "prudent." Riding a wave of profitability stemming from the iPods and it's "halo" effect on Macs, we're seeing Apple in a good position right now.

Why ruin that right now? Development costs for consoles are astronomical, in this day and age. It's not a core competancy for Apple's business at all, and - at that - a stretch. It's also not a profitability model they're familiar with and they do not have the software network nor the industry expertise to attempt a foray into the field.

The closest they can do is partner with an existing vendor, but that has its own issues and dilutes from the brand image - one of the strongest points thus far with the company.

I say "nay."

iJawn108
Dec 5, 2006, 01:15 PM
won't happen, I bloody well hope not at least.

bigbossbmb
Dec 5, 2006, 01:16 PM
Nope, not going to happen...I see the addition of more game developers as a progression of the iPhone and iPod games. I think that when the iPhone comes out, it will support all of the iPod games that are available on the iTunes store. The idea of playing them through an iTV is kinda cute, but definitely just a novelty and most people will ignore the feature.

TheSpaz
Dec 5, 2006, 01:18 PM
Apple does not need to ruin their image with a stupid video game system. As if we need more of these. Besides, what would Apple bring to the table that the other systems don't? There's already plenty of games and gaming systems out there, Apple does not need to touch this one. However, I'm looking forward to the iTV thing.

ravenvii
Dec 5, 2006, 01:18 PM
CoreGame, perhaps?

weldon
Dec 5, 2006, 01:20 PM
The most I see coming is the expansion of the iTunes games store to include first-party Apple titles that are playable on the iPod, iPhone, and iTV.

SpookTheHamster
Dec 5, 2006, 01:21 PM
One thing I could imagine Apple trying is using the iTV as a game (as well as video) streaming device. You could play small, simple pick up and play games on your TV for a few minutes. Games along the line of Chu Chu Rocket, or things you'd see in Bishi Bashi games, only more stylish. Doesn't the Xbox 360 have little games like this? I've never played one.

Swoosh
Dec 5, 2006, 01:26 PM
The problem I see is that the game market is over saturated as is. Especailly with Nintendo seemingly revitalized in popularity with the Wii really starting to take off. Then you have the XBox 360, which Microsoft will fund forever.

The PS3 is off to a slow start, but by the time Apple could really mobilize into the game industry, the PS3 will be cheaper, have its userbase going, and have a wider variety of software as well.

A Nintendo-Apple alliance would be nice ... but honestly I think the question is, how does that really benefit Nintendo? Especailly since they're a notoriously controlling company (as is Apple). I don't think it would work. If Nintendo wanted to do things like a set-top box version of the Wii or a Wii 2 in the future with say TV recording functions and music playback, they could do that themselves. The Wii already can (or will) do things like have a weather channel, news channel, display digital camera photos, surf the internet, send/recieve e-mail, etc. So even Nintendo has eased off their "game-only" approach of the past.

If Apple wants to focus on something, IMO, it should be towards making the Mac Mini that really interfaces with your television and can do things like record TV right out of the box, with a stylish design and an affordable price.

dr_lha
Dec 5, 2006, 01:27 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe the "iTV" or whatever it might end up being called could play host to some games? Maybe Apple is looking at adding some simple games functionality to the iTV much like they have the iPod. Sure it wouldn't compete with MS/Sony/Nintendo, but it adds value to the iTV device.

50548
Dec 5, 2006, 01:28 PM
Not gonna happen. The Pippin was an experience bitter enough...unless Apple buys cheapo Nintendo, of course...:rolleyes:

twoodcc
Dec 5, 2006, 01:31 PM
yeah, i just don't see this happening. i don't think Apple could compete with the ones that are already there, but microsoft did it, so maybe Apple can too. i would love for them to try:cool:

Rojo
Dec 5, 2006, 01:31 PM
One thing I could imagine Apple trying is using the iTV as a game (as well as video) streaming device. You could play small, simple pick up and play games on your TV for a few minutes. Games along the line of Chu Chu Rocket, or things you'd see in Bishi Bashi games, only more stylish. Doesn't the Xbox 360 have little games like this? I've never played one.

This is what I'm seeing -- most-likely games for iTV, which would be way cool.
No way would Apple put out a console of their own now, in this climate.
Man... I don't even remember the Pippin! Must have mind-wiped that out of my head years ago. Then again, I haven't owned a console since ColecoVision! I DO plan to get the iTV, though -- and would probably download some games from iTunes if I was able to stream them over to my TV.

pdpfilms
Dec 5, 2006, 01:32 PM
microsoft fanboy i presume?

Good stereotype attempt, but nope. I'm really not interested in the gaming scene (other than a tom clancey ehre and there), and i have no preference. My statement was just based of sales/reviews. And I'd like to keep the PS3/Xbox 360 discussion out of here, so I appologize for offending anyone.

timmillwood
Dec 5, 2006, 01:33 PM
i cant see it happening

savar
Dec 5, 2006, 01:34 PM
ya, I think this buying season shows how competitive the gaming console market is. That being said, it's not hard to imagine that Apple is at least seriously keeping tabs on this area, just to remain competitive.

arn

Sure, it always makes sense to keep tabs on potential opportunities.

But Sony has all of the mindshare, and MS has all the software (Windows and DirectX) and the premier online gaming platform. Apple would have do something improbably amazing to knock either one off their pedestal, let alone both.

Apple's model doesn't fit with the industry either: Apple likes to make fat margins on hardware by bundling killer software. Video game consoles are the opposite: sell the hardware at a loss and recoup on licensing fees.

The Xbox business unit isn't even profitable yet -- but it's getting there. I don't think Apple has the capital to mess around with this market yet.

On top of all that, the 360 already demonstrates a lot of the design elements that Apple is known for. The hardware has clean lines and is uncluttered. The hard drive clips into the top -- no cables required. The interface is clean and easy to use. It connects to other computers on your network to play back music and videos without any hassle. The online gaming is easy and seamless with the rest of the system. I don't know how Apple would make it's mark on consumers who already have a 360.

PtMD
Dec 5, 2006, 01:35 PM
Apple would also be unwilling to accept the a lost on each console sold: even at $600 Sony still loses over $100 on each PS3 sold. The only option is to go into partnership with another company, MS is out since it's Microsoft, Sony is out because they have too much invested in Blu-Ray (an itv rival). That leaves Nintendo, who are historically uninterested in multi purpose games machines.

Sorry, but I fail to see how Blu-Ray and iTV are rivals? I have a Blu-Ray player and I still have need for iTV or similar capabilities.

j26
Dec 5, 2006, 01:35 PM
There are games for OSX. The mac mini is perfectly positioned in the minds of many here as a set top box for their tv.

Why not make something that is a computer, media centre, DVR, and games console for light gamers? I don't think development costs would be too huge. How expensive would it be to put a couple of extra ports, design a controller and decide on what graphics chip to put in. Voila a console/media centre launches with a decent catalogue of games already in existence and a substantial number of people already owning games that might tempt them to pick one up.

Nintendo has shown that not everyone needs the latest technology.
I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem too technically difficult to me

Edit: why not run with a dvd and wait out until hd-dvd or bluray wins out and then release an external that sits under it? The system could develop with changing needs

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 5, 2006, 01:37 PM
Apple has been there, done that. Pippin, anyone? Doubt they'd get back in this late in the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin
http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/
I agree, way way to late to this party. Apple does have a huge problem though and thats its lack of video card options for all its products. Though they might be in the process of changing this because for the first time ever they offer a videocard upgrade for iMac. Apple needs to focus on two things to support its computer lines. One is the Videocard. This is the gaming generation and having such sorry videochips in so many products without options is almost inexcusable. The other is not getting TV into Macs. These are two big problems for Apple.
Who would have thought Apple would ever resorted to boot camp? Gaming on Macs would be nearly dead without it. Aspyr is even making PC games now so what does that say about Mac ports? MacOs gaming is in the process of drying up it seems. Brought on by Apple itself.
I dont think we will ever see Apple in the console market because its saturated by Nintendo,Sony and Microsoft who still isnt making anything on it as far as I know. A better route is to focus on PC/Mac gaming on its current hardware. Give better video options, get behind PC gaming for its Macs. PC gaming is superior to the consoles and Apple should embrace it, not run it off.

0010101
Dec 5, 2006, 01:41 PM
Apple entering the console gaming market is as stupid as Apple entering the cell phone market. For the same reasons.

Both markets are heavily saturated with competition and established names. The lions share of profits are made in both markets not by the actual hardware, but in accessories and service to the hardware. (games and control pads for consoles, airtime and chargers for cell phones)

iTV is a stupid idea, too. People have tried for years to stick a computer on a TV set. People in general just aren't interested. Why do I want a iTV when my current $99 DVD player can play anything I can burn to a disk, and my FREE DirecTV box has built in TiVO?

Yes, a box that sits on your TV that connects to your LAN has a certain geek appeal.. but I doubt it has much chance at large scale commercial success.. not when for the cost of a blank DVD-R I can burn anything on my computer to media my $99 DVD player can play.

Cougarcat
Dec 5, 2006, 01:43 PM
Apple wants to develop games for the Mac. That is where they want their games, on the iMac -not some iBox or something.

I bet they are not trying to make games or play station knockoffs, rather are actually developing tools to make games for the Mac.

That is exactly what OS X needs: a proper Gaming API akin to DirectX, along with proper controller support OpenGL just doesn't cut it; run a non-ported game like WoW in OS X and WoW in Bootcamp, and Bootcamp will definitely be faster.

But Apple simply doesn't care about mac gaming. I can only see them expanding their iPod games, especially when the iPhone and fullscreen iPod comes out.

CEAbiscuit
Dec 5, 2006, 01:45 PM
iPlay? iGame? Why not iFridge? or iPatio?

Makes no sense.

hvfsl
Dec 5, 2006, 01:46 PM
Good stereotype attempt, but nope. I'm really not interested in the gaming scene (other than a tom clancey ehre and there), and i have no preference. My statement was just based of sales/reviews. And I'd like to keep the PS3/Xbox 360 discussion out of here, so I appologize for offending anyone.

This gen is an open race. Any of the 3 consoles has a good chance to win, although I would say Nintendo has the advantage because it appeals to people that would have not got a games machine before.

aleck
Dec 5, 2006, 01:47 PM
The dumbest rumor ever. This is one of the most fiercely battled markets out there and Apple has absolutely no interest at all to enter that.

Hattig
Dec 5, 2006, 01:48 PM
That is exactly what OS X needs: a proper Gaming API akin to DirectX, along with proper controller support OpenGL just doesn't cut it; run a non-ported game like WoW in OS X and WoW in Bootcamp, and Bootcamp will definitely be faster.

But Apple simply doesn't care about mac gaming. I can only see them expanding their iPod games, especially when the iPhone and fullscreen iPod comes out.

OpenGL is fine, it is just that ported games often use a DirectX->OpenGL wrapper which slows things down. Also Apple's OpenGL implementation sucks (or it used to suck, it might be better on the Intel macs).

However the other gaming APIs would be useful - decent audio, controller, etc.

In terms of the iTV I think that Apple will have simple games available for it that you can control with the remote control. I imagine the remote may even have a scroll wheel on it. As the iTV is meant to be cheap, it is probably the guts of an iPod on steroids, it may even run the iPod games.

Object-X
Dec 5, 2006, 01:50 PM
I just posted this in the last thread, sorry to repeat myself, but Apple should buy/partner with Nintendo. I can't see Apple entering this market, which is very mature, with a brand new product and having anything new to offer, especially games. Nintendo has the best innovative idea around and their product would complement Apple nicely. Add iTV functionality to it, add HD, slap an Apple logo on it and your set.

They could port Nintedo games to work on the Mac and offer an online service that works with .Mac and allows Mac gamers and Wii gamers to play together. I think it would be a winning combo and add even more pressure to Sony and Microsoft.

It would also add another incentive to buy a Mac and .Mac for happy Wii owners.

BlueRevolution
Dec 5, 2006, 01:50 PM
You know the rumour mill is running a bit dry when these start surfacing again. As if our iPhone rumours aren't enough...

supermacdesign
Dec 5, 2006, 01:50 PM
Apple will never ever have a game machine. And thats the end of this thread.

Cougarcat
Dec 5, 2006, 01:50 PM
Apple entering the console gaming market is as stupid as Apple entering the cell phone market. For the same reasons.

Both markets are heavily saturated with competition and established names.



I agree with you that Apple entering the console gaming market is stupid (The consoles are good products; Nintendo is obviously doing something right with the Wii) but the cellphone market is different. You could say that the mp3 player market was saturated w/ competition before the iPod came out. The difference was, the iPod did the mp3 player right. They brought simplicity and elegance which I believe they can bring to the cellphone market as well. Sure, there are some phones out there with nice designs (I like my Razr) but the sofware is always complete crapĖĖugly, inelegant and hard to use. If Apple can bring that elegance to cellphones, people will ditch their current phones in droves, just like they ditched their crappy mp3 players in favor of the iPod.

Swoosh
Dec 5, 2006, 01:51 PM
Nintendo is a huge, huge company. They have something like $10 billion in cash reserves just sitting that and those get bigger every year. I really doubt Apple could buy Nintendo.

Microsoft tried it prior to launching the XBox and were flatly shut down. Financially, Nintendo's probably in better shape right now than Sony is.

arn
Dec 5, 2006, 01:53 PM
Apple will never ever have a game machine. And thats the end of this thread.

Perhaps console is too strong a word.... but the iPod is effectively a portable gaming device. At present, there are only 9 games... but if in the future, there are a ton more games on it, it wouldn't be surprising that Apple's iPod could be considered a portable gaming platform.

arn

gkarris
Dec 5, 2006, 01:53 PM
Nintendo already made the hardware...

Take a Wii, remove the Gamecube ports, replace the OS, and you have the iGame...

I can see it, plays DVDs, iTunes movies and music, and iTunes games... $199 (since the Gamecube stuff is gone). Uses the Wii Remote as well as the Apple one.

Swoosh
Dec 5, 2006, 01:55 PM
Nintendo already made the hardware...

Take a Wii, remove the Gamecube ports, replace the OS, and you have the iGame...

I can see it, plays DVDs, iTunes movies and music, and iTunes games... $199 (since the Gamecube stuff is gone). Uses the Wii Remote as well as the Apple one.

The problem with this is ... why would Nintendo want to do this? They'd have to share profits from the iTunes games (presumably), movie/music downloads with Apple.

They could offer that functionality themselves and keep all the profit for themselves if they really wanted to. Nintendo already has a game download service set up and running on the Wii for instance. Music/Movie downloads ... I'm really not sure how much interest they have in even offering that.

If Apple were to come into such an alliance, it would have to be on Nintendo's terms, not the other way around. As far as the game market goes, Apple needs Nintendo more than Nintendo needs Apple.

jimsowden
Dec 5, 2006, 01:56 PM
The pool is already crowded with fat kids here. And if these companies have proven anything, Sony and Microsoft in particular, it's that gaming isn't a massively lucrative business model from the start, something Apple has never been to keen on doing. (Loss leaders) I think Nintendo remains the Apple of the game world, with lesser hardware but more focus on the actual enjoyment of playing rather like Sony's new PS3 and what can be done and isn't (Can't buy them, good games are still a ways off) I'd implore Apple not to move into this market, stick with consumer entertainment and professional creativity for now.

roland.g
Dec 5, 2006, 01:56 PM
I'd love to see it happen just so the gamers would stop whining about how Macs are not good gaming machines unless you pay out the for a Mac Pro and this video card this and this video card that.

Somehow I don't think that would stop them. It would probably just get worse. Sorry I like games, don't really play them, I use my xbox 2-3 times a year and have none on my Mac, but people whose main concern is how many fps they can get with this or that card on WOW or some other blah blah game just get so irritating.

Excuse me last time I checked there was a lot more to Macs and computers in general, not to mention life, than games and gaming.

Try to find some middle ground.

/endrant/

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 5, 2006, 01:56 PM
Perhaps console is too strong a word.... but the iPod is effectively a portable gaming device. At present, there are only 9 games... but if in the future, there are a ton more games on it, it wouldn't be surprising that Apple's iPod could be considered a portable gaming platform.

arnTrue, I agree with that 100%. Apple owns the portable music player so it makes perfect sense. Apples computers though are really missing something when it comes to games.

psingh01
Dec 5, 2006, 01:57 PM
The day Apple announces a gaming console is the day I sell my aapl stock!

Seriously, the only way it would come close to being successful is if it was backwards compatible with other system's games....and I'm sure Sony and MS will jump at the chance of doing that....:rolleyes:

Shadow
Dec 5, 2006, 01:58 PM
Apple will never ever have a game machine. And thats the end of this thread.

Never say that, because if it does happen you look like an idiot. I'm not saying it will happen, but look at Intel. People said Apple would never use Intel chips, and look where we are now!

TheBobcat
Dec 5, 2006, 02:04 PM
I agree with those who say that if anything, Apple is looking to strengthen its position for casual gamers by having an easier system to make games run natively for both Intel Macs and Windows. Given the Intel Chips now, Apple should be able to have some method to make games for Mac and Windows more easily.

First, Apple will never win over hardcore gamers, for games. They like to build their own machines and tweak them to the max. That's not how Apple operates. Such people though may have an Mac as a secondary computer, I know several in that situation.

Second, I seriously doubt the iPod's games will ever move beyond the novelty status and just a quick fix for fun with simplistic games. Apple doesn't need to. There's no big group of holdouts praying for the next iPod to have a large library of games available for it, and most users don't care about the ones available for it currently.

For those who say its too late in the game for a console, I disagree. Many latecomers become market leaders (Toyota in America) as long as their offering a product people want to buy as opposed to what is available. MS showed us that by buying a bunch of game studios, you might get lucky by finding one with the "killer app". However, I doubt that Apple really wants to commit the capital that would be required to have a game machine, and lets not forget the current problems that still plague Xbox abroad. Xbox is a mild success, but no cash cow. I doubt Apple would want to take a hit with something similar.

egdiroh
Dec 5, 2006, 02:09 PM
So in terms of reality, I could see apple making an iTunes channel for the wii, that acted like the iTV. After all, I don't think that the iTV is as much of a profit generator as it is an enabler. It increases the value of iTunes media. Which maintains the strength of iPods, as well as increasing the consumer's refresh rate, in order to keep all the media and stream it. As such I don't think that apple it terribly concerned with selling lots and lots of iTVs without competition. And since the iTV caters towards really jazzed out home theaters, but the wii is more of a catch all, so the two wouldn't neccesarily compete that much.
As for thoughts that nintendo and apple should get together in a more substanitive way, while the companies do seem to have a lot in common, willing to be a niche player as long as it is profitable, having similar design athstetics, etc, I don't think the two are really compatible. Nintendo makes a point of releasing systems that are complete unto them selves and Apple wants to be a digital hub, but you only really need the digital hub for something that is incomplete, and i don't think that that is something nintendo really wants to do. And both companies tend to try to be the slpha dog in the pack, which means that any collaboration might end like the nintendo sony one that lead to the play station.

psychofreak
Dec 5, 2006, 02:15 PM
The day Apple announces a gaming console is the day I sell my aapl stock!

Seriously, the only way it would come close to being successful is if it was backwards compatible with other system's games....and I'm sure Sony and MS will jump at the chance of doing that....:rolleyes:

Whys that, MS only just jumped into the market. People thought they were too late in the game. Apple's console could bring the much needed integration above Connect360, built in with iTV and DVR.

dernhelm
Dec 5, 2006, 02:17 PM
This one is _beyond_ a stretch. Page 2 this sucker. The premise here is what? Apple hires some game developers to put some games on the iPod, so of course they must be planning a game console to compete with the Wii or the PS3.

That follows perfectly!

:confused:

Swoosh
Dec 5, 2006, 02:19 PM
Actually Microsoft still loses money on their XBox division. It's never turned a profit in its 5 years of market existence. They're hoping to turn a profit in 2007 or 2008 for the first time I think, but they've bled something like $2 billion to just get into the industry.

Apple would have to be willing to take some serious sized losses I think if they want to enter the market. Which is another reason why they won't.

Cloud9
Dec 5, 2006, 02:27 PM
Steve is trying to take over the world.

He understands that the personal computer is not going to land in every ones hands and thats why there is an ipod. But the Ipod is about to evolve into something else here in the next year. It's already made 2 evolutions. With the ipod already in everyones hand by adding game content they add one more value to it. There is no new market to break into. If you own the ipod you are the market. The ipod has been from the very begining steves takeover device. It will eventually take over as a nessary device for people much like a cell phone. It will take 10 years though. And its working becuase he is not fighting any markets. HE's letting roots grow in. Adding video game capabilty is pretty inoccuous right now, atleast untill you cant wait to downlaod lemmings 2050 on to it, thats when the the root has taken. It started as a music player, and eventually it will be a fullscale multimedia device that does it better then the rest.

darwen
Dec 5, 2006, 02:27 PM
As much as I would love to play an iBox. I dont see it happening. I could see it as a possible market for apple and I could see it as being sucessful. For some reason though, my gut tells me apple wont jump in.

CaptainScarlet
Dec 5, 2006, 02:28 PM
Remember peeps...back in the day..Apple WAS the gaming platform...

Not sure if a game console is plan here...

I would expect more of a "Mac Games can be played on your TV!!" approach...

Or your Ipod can play halo 5!!!

Tom B.
Dec 5, 2006, 02:33 PM
Apple have just released some cheat codes for Vortex And Texas Hold 'Em. Nothing major, but still pretty cool to try out.

You can check them out here (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/cheat-codes-vortex-and-texas-holdem/) on iLounge.

Eduardo1971
Dec 5, 2006, 02:48 PM
Please no Apple, not a redux Pippin.:p

Nah, it seems like this is for games for the iPod.

inkswamp
Dec 5, 2006, 02:49 PM
(( deleted this... it was a partial submit of the post I was trying to make--scroll down to read the whole thing. Sorry. ))

kupua
Dec 5, 2006, 02:51 PM
This is really hard to swallow.

But the reality is... anyone remember, any of you went to E3 (electronic, entertainment expo) back in 2005 when MS introduced the Xbox 360 and saw all of the demo's. All those demo's were running on the, then current G5 machines...

additional reality is .... Wii is also based on the Power PC chip hardware. So is the Playstation 3...

Maybe this is not that too far fetched? I duno... Hope Not!

Who else knows the Power PC better than Apple? Sure not Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony? Go figure...

inkswamp
Dec 5, 2006, 02:52 PM
There's no way this is a regular game console like the XBox or the Wii. Just about everything Apple has done in the last 5+ years has been based on the digital hub concept, of somehow tying your life and media around the computer. If there is any game development going on at Apple (not counting the iPod games) it's going to be something that has a significant tie-in with your computer.

How about the world's first download-only game store, a la iTunes? The box software/store approach is so old hat and yet it doesn't appear that anyone has seriously taken on the idea of a game download store. And maybe there is a way to play those games from your computer on your TV screen or whatever.

It's probably a long ways off at this point, but if Apple is doing anything serious in the gaming market, it will be something that comes at it from an unexpected tangent and does something none of the existing consoles do--just like the iTunes store did with music downloads and mp3 players.

psingh01
Dec 5, 2006, 03:03 PM
Whys that, MS only just jumped into the market. People thought they were too late in the game. Apple's console could bring the much needed integration above Connect360, built in with iTV and DVR.

Microsoft has tons of money they are willing to LOSE in order to get marketshare. On top of that, developing games for 360 is similar to developing them for Windows. Apple can't even get people to develop Mac games, how will they get people to develop for a new console? Having all that integration that you mentioned would make a cool gadget, but I don't think it will ultimately be successfull in the market.

Flowbee
Dec 5, 2006, 03:07 PM
Sounds like a very bad direction for Apple to go. Maybe the iTV will have some of this functionality on a limited scale. Kinda like iPod games.

[EDIT] Just saw the update on the main page. Looks like this rumor did grow out of Apple having iPod game developers on staff.

adamcz
Dec 5, 2006, 03:09 PM
As a shareholder who mostly just wants to see Apple make tons of cash, here's what I'd love to see:

-A toolkit that allows PC developers to port games to the Mac OS effortlessly.
-Sell the freshly ported games through the iTunes store.

The PC gaming world is overflowing with games and even entire genres that aren't available on the consoles. I'm looking at the "most popular" list over at gamespot right now, and at the top of the list:

#1. Medieval 2
#2. World of Warcraft
#3. Neverwinter Nights 2
#4. Command & Conquer 3
#5. WoW Expansion
#6. Everquest II
#8. Company of Heroes
#9. STALKER

To the best of my knowledge, none of those games are available on consoles, so to enter that market would be to compete only with Microsoft. If those games could be downloaded for $49.99 from iTunes and played on a Mac, I think we'd see a ton of bottom line growth from it.

If the idea takes off, maybe the iTV 2.0, two or three years from now can be used to play them in the living room.

GFLPraxis
Dec 5, 2006, 03:16 PM
I can't see it happening. The home console market is already crowded with MS Sony and Nintendo. A new console would require developers to support a newbie platform, investing millions in a product unlikely to take off.


Apple would also be unwilling to accept the a lost on each console sold: even at $600 Sony still loses over $100 on each PS3 sold. The only option is to go into partnership with another company, MS is out since it's Microsoft, Sony is out because they have too much invested in Blu-Ray (an itv rival). That leaves Nintendo, who are historically uninterested in multi purpose games machines.

I'm all for gaming on the mac platform, but MS has PC gaming by the nuts with DX10, and I can't see room in either the home console or portable market. Besides does the mac mini even have a graphics chip?

A loss isn't absolutely necessary if you have good engineering. Nintendo has historically sold all their consoles for a profit.

For reference...the GameCube launched 1 year after the PS2 and cost $100 less (where PS2 sold at a loss and GameCube at a profit) yet outperformed it by nearly 2x.

The GameCube also launched 3 days after XBox, cost $100 less, was fairly close in performance AND the XBox was selling at a $100 loss while GameCube sold at a small profit (so GC cost <$200 to build, XBox cost >$400 to build, and XBox only had a small performance advantage).

adamcz
Dec 5, 2006, 03:20 PM
The GameCube also launched 3 days after XBox, cost $100 less, was fairly close in performance AND the XBox was selling at a $100 loss while GameCube sold at a small profit (so GC cost <$200 to build, XBox cost >$400 to build, and XBox only had a small performance advantage).The gamecube was also completely unsucessful, perhaps in part due to the hardware it lacked that the xbox had. High speed internet, hard drive, ability to play dvd's. Maybe the GC's failure was due to other reasons, but I certainly wouldn't want Apple to release a console that does only as well as the Gamecube. It would be reverse halo-effect.

Clive At Five
Dec 5, 2006, 03:43 PM
The Bad:

Ohhhhh SUCH a difficult market to break in to, not to mention that it's crowded already. You'd be stuck with four video-game options instead of three... and figuring out which content is available on what? Another player is just going to confuse things more.

Each added console manufacturer means an exponential increase in titles, features and combinations thereof, available to the consumer... which leads to exponentially more confusion. The consumers will tolerate only so much of this until he/she will draw a line and say "anything else new from this point out is too much information to process" and "otomatically" block it out. This may or may not be the case with an Apple console... let's call it "GamePod"

The Good:

If PS3 is the impending disaster that everyone says it is, next Christmas would be a great time to release a product. MS won't be ready for another XBox yet, the Wii will still be new, and the PS3 will be losing market/mind-share.

Secondly, (with surprising exception to the Wii) console gaming has been a very static platform, with graphics being the only MAJOR enhancement over the years. Apple has a knack for bringing new ideas to the table, specifically in arenas that have been stagnant for years (think portable music ;)). That being said, a GamePod could usher in a new era of gaming... that is, if Nintendo & the Wii haven't already done so.

If Apple intends to enter this market, the time to strike is soon.

-Clive

bigbossbmb
Dec 5, 2006, 03:46 PM
Apple entering the console gaming market is as stupid as Apple entering the cell phone market. For the same reasons.

Although cell phones are more of an everyday item. Everyone knows that the cell phone interface can be vastly improved (in a very apple way). That is what Apple does: interface and experience. This really isn't an area as critical to consoles as it is for the games themselves. I have an easier time believing an Apple-designed video game for the Wii would include innovative interface experience than an Apple-branded console.

GFLPraxis
Dec 5, 2006, 03:49 PM
The gamecube was also completely unsucessful, perhaps in part due to the hardware it lacked that the xbox had. High speed internet, hard drive, ability to play dvd's. Maybe the GC's failure was due to other reasons, but I certainly wouldn't want Apple to release a console that does only as well as the Gamecube. It would be reverse halo-effect.

Certainly not due to hardware. The GameCube and XBox sold similar numbers (GC failed in the US, XBox failed in Japan even worse) worldwide, only the PS2 was a success everywhere (70% marketshare) and it had the worst hardware of them all, and lacked a hard drive. You had to buy a seperate broadband adapter too, just like GameCube (Except unlike GameCube, there were games that actually used it).

GameCube's lack of success can mainly be attributed to lack of third party support and absolutely no online support.

Frankly, if Apple's first console did as well as the GameCube it would be a great start. Microsoft's first console did just that (XBox had 16% worldwide marketshare, versus GameCube's 14%, and the XBox division took a four billion dollar loss to accomplish that while Nintendo made a massive profit off their GameCube division).

Cameront9
Dec 5, 2006, 04:20 PM
A loss isn't absolutely necessary if you have good engineering. Nintendo has historically sold all their consoles for a profit.

For reference...the GameCube launched 1 year after the PS2 and cost $100 less (where PS2 sold at a loss and GameCube at a profit) yet outperformed it by nearly 2x.

The GameCube also launched 3 days after XBox, cost $100 less, was fairly close in performance AND the XBox was selling at a $100 loss while GameCube sold at a small profit (so GC cost <$200 to build, XBox cost >$400 to build, and XBox only had a small performance advantage).

Actually, I believe the Gamecube was the FIRST Nintendo console to be sold for a profit. I know the NES and SNES were sold at a loss, at least initially. Not sure about the 64, but with the expensive SGI chips, I can't imagine it would be sold for profit.

Sony and Microsoft are doing what Nintendo did in the old days...But I think that Nintendo learned (from the N64 Era) that that particular tactic is ultimately doomed to fail...

As for Apple entering the games market: the only thing I can see is more iPod games--MAYBE some simple games downloadable via iTunes and playable on Mac/PC. NO WAY is Apple entering the console market, and they would be crazy to enter the DS Lite dominated Handheld arena, too.

Now, partnering with Nintendo I can see--Nintendo has traditionally been very stubborn about this, but ever since Yaumauchi (SP?) retired, they've gotten a LOT better. I can see a limited Apple-Nintendo partnership...nothing extravagent, though. You aren't going to see an Apple Wii anytime soon.

As for you crazy people saying Apple might buy Nintendo: Never going to happen. Nintendo is just too stubborn. Nintendo's also been around since 1889--FAR longer than Apple. Apple's like a teenager to Nintendo. Don't get me wrong--Apple's still a great, established company, but buying Nintendo is not something they could do in the foreseeable future.

Cameront9
Dec 5, 2006, 04:24 PM
The gamecube was also completely unsucessful, perhaps in part due to the hardware it lacked that the xbox had. High speed internet, hard drive, ability to play dvd's. Maybe the GC's failure was due to other reasons, but I certainly wouldn't want Apple to release a console that does only as well as the Gamecube. It would be reverse halo-effect.

I would hardly call the GameCube "Completely Unsuccessful" It might not have been the revitalization that Nintendo hoped for (and looks to be doing with the Wii), but It was a step in the right direction and was certainly more successful than the N64.

You want completely unsuccessful, then look at the Virtual Boy.

jonutarr
Dec 5, 2006, 04:27 PM
bad idea


360 is all you need

smellslikedan
Dec 5, 2006, 04:31 PM
Side Note: I could be wrong but wasn't Halo originally developed for Mac until evil M$ bought out Bungie.

Now just imagine if Halo never came out for the Xbox and started life as a Mac game.

I think the games make the console.

Mgkwho
Dec 5, 2006, 04:37 PM
The closest Apple will ever come to gaming is supplying a controller for use with iTV.

Otherwise there's no point. If you already have the best machine, why make another one (unless it's better and replacing completely the old one).

-=|Mgkwho

Cameront9
Dec 5, 2006, 04:42 PM
Side Note: I could be wrong but wasn't Halo originally developed for Mac until evil M$ bought out Bungie.

Now just imagine if Halo never came out for the Xbox and started life as a Mac game.

I think the games make the console.

I'm not completely sure of where Halo was in development when MS bought Bungie, but yes, it was orginally a Mac title. Although I believe at one time it was supposed to be a RTS, not a FPS.

and if it had been released, then Halo would have faded into obscurity. I really don't believe it would have spurred Mac sales or anything. I still don't see what's so great about the game...

SiliconAddict
Dec 5, 2006, 04:45 PM
The pool is already crowded with fat kids here. And if these companies have proven anything, Sony and Microsoft in particular, it's that gaming isn't a massively lucrative business model from the start, something Apple has never been to keen on doing. (Loss leaders) I think Nintendo remains the Apple of the game world, with lesser hardware but more focus on the actual enjoyment of playing rather like Sony's new PS3 and what can be done and isn't (Can't buy them, good games are still a ways off) I'd implore Apple not to move into this market, stick with consumer entertainment and professional creativity for now.

gaming systems don't make fat kids, fast\junk food does. And really I don't remember Atari and Nintendo causing an obesity outbreak in the 80's and 90's either. Finally Nintendoís current system is making a profit off of each system sold. A substantial one at that. That being said Apple doesnít have the wontons to enter the gaming market. Unlike the highlander for the video gaming market there can be only three. In this case Nintendo, Sony, and MS.

If anything I would rather see Nintendo and Apple team up with Apple creating a front end for the next generation of the WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Rojo
Dec 5, 2006, 04:50 PM
Nintendo's also been around since 1889--FAR longer than Apple. Apple's like a teenager to Nintendo.

I thought you were just exaggerating, and then I looked them up. They really HAVE been around that long! I had no idea they were anything before video games! I love wikipedia. ;)

smellslikedan
Dec 5, 2006, 04:54 PM
At first it seems like a bit of a stretch for Apple to enter the console gaming market.

But then look where Microsoft came from- they are a "software" company.
And Sony is a "hardware" company they have everything from-TVs, Digital Cameras, Gaming Consoles, Computers, Stereos, they even have a Music Label! ... and the list goes on.

Why not diversify.

J Radical
Dec 5, 2006, 04:54 PM
Sorry, but I fail to see how Blu-Ray and iTV are rivals? I have a Blu-Ray player and I still have need for iTV or similar capabilities.

The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD competition could be avoided entirely by a download service. Broadband continues to get faster and faster, downloadable games and music are already a reality thanks to steam and itunes. Add this trend to the fact that most people are happy with the quality of their current DVDs, and iTV already makes a lot of sense.

It's only a matter of time until iTunes offers HD movie downloads, why take a risk on HDDVD or Blu-Ray when you can stick with the extremely well established iTunes? You can download music and HD movies cheaply and easily.

Storage may become an issue, but harddrives have come down in price considerably over recent years. Hell we will probably be streaming full length HD movies in the future- we're already streaming HD trailers in front row.

weldon
Dec 5, 2006, 05:01 PM
The talk of Apple entering the console market to compete with Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo is missing the obvious. It's not happening soon because there is no way for a company to develop a next-gen console and keep it a secret. The Big 3 console companies have been working on their next-gen systems for years. They haven't been secrets because they need third-party developers to create games (and accessories). If Apple were to enter the console market, they would need 3 years and there would be a lot of pre-launch talk about third-party developers, etc.

Frankly, I don't think Apple could pull it off if they wanted to. The market is just too far from their core competency. They can stretch a little to increase the multimedia features of the iPod and iTV, but a console is insane (IMHO).

Cameront9
Dec 5, 2006, 05:09 PM
At first it seems like a bit of a stretch for Apple to enter the console gaming market.

But then look where Microsoft came from- they are a "software" company.
And Sony is a "hardware" company they have everything from-TVs, Digital Cameras, Gaming Consoles, Computers, Stereos, they even have a Music Label! ... and the list goes on.

Why not diversify.

There's a big difference. Microsoft came into the market when there was really only one strong player: Sony. Then they threw money at it until Halo came out and caught on with people. They lost a TON on the Xbox...I'm not sure Apple has that much to lose.

Sony was originally going to make a Super NES CD ROM drive with Nintendo. Then Nintendo screwed them over by going with Philips instead, Sony got pissed, and used the knowledge gained from the project to release the PSX. This is another reason that I don't think Nintendo will parter with anyone like that again--the Super NES CDROM fiasco was a costly mistake for them.

I would say the only way that Apple MIGHT have a chance is if the PS3 COMPLETELY bombs and is killed within 6 months--but we all know that's not going to happen...

jupiter
Dec 5, 2006, 05:13 PM
I think there would be several advantages for Apple if they bought Nintendo, the main one as I can see would be switchers. There are alot of Nintendo fans out there who dont have Macs, if Apple did take over and released a revolutionary console, paired with downloads from itunes, imagine how many of the existing fans would consider switching. This would be even more sucessful if Apple could somehow make their games cross-compatible between console and Mac.
But anyways, im new here so feel free to correct me!

J

Stridder44
Dec 5, 2006, 05:15 PM
Apple making a console? lol why not get into kitchen appliances too. If anything Im sure they're just trying to expand the Mac's current game range (because it's almost non-exsistant right now).

I mean honestly, didn't they say they were going after 3rd party game developers? How does that spell console? No, it's games. Apple is trying to get more games on the Mac platform.

0010101
Dec 5, 2006, 05:59 PM
The point I was trying to make is that Apple has, since it's inception, been in the high margin business. They don't sell their stuff at cost or a loss in the hopes of making the money up elsewhere.. like the games console market and cell phone market.

When the iPod was originally introduced, the portable MP3 player market wasn't anywhere close to being saturated.. and the closest thing to an iPod that was on the market was some clunky device the size of a brick.

If people were still walking around with bag phones and 'portable' phones the size of WWII walkie talkies, Apple would have a shot.. but that isn't the case. If they enter the cellphone market today, it'll be a strong uphill battle.

A games console is only as strong as the third party software development. More available games means more demand for the console.. really, it's the same problem Apple has with the Mac.. in truth, the ONLY problem Apple has with the Mac as far as i'm concerned.

You go to the store and see row upon row upon row of inexpensive software available for the PC.. and the PC only costs $499, monitor, keyboard, and mouse included.

Then you've got the Mac offering at $100+ more, and you need to get a mouse, keyboard, and monitor extra.. or spring for the $1,000+ 'all in one' iMac.. but the available software is like one shelf, and it's all high priced stuff.

So Apple could make the most mind blowing games console ever.. with hardware specs and computing power that rival the worlds fastest super computers.. but unless it has a bunch of cool games available, nobody is going to buy it.. not even at $299.. and especially not for $700 or more.

I think developing little games for the iPod is a great idea. Sell them off iTunes as a way to generate additional revenue.. lots of times people are stuck riding on a bus, or waiting at the DMV and wouldn't mind playing a game while they listen to music.. frankly, i'm suprised they haven't had more game support on iPods earlier.

'DIWWYG' is my advice to Apple: 'Do It With What You Got'.

Add cellular capabilities to the iPod so people can download music on the road.. don't turn it into a phone.

Add gaming capabilities to the iPod so people can play a game while they're killing time.. but don't turn it into a full on game machine.

mahonmeister
Dec 5, 2006, 06:15 PM
Gaming on a full screen iPod, or something similar, would be awesome.

Before Apple gets into a console, they should increase gaming capabilities on Macs first.

nitynate
Dec 5, 2006, 06:25 PM
This is not going to happen...


Or hold us off for anything else, give us our Power Book G5 rumors!! :D

Or, just tell us about some Lube™
Even though I still have no clue what the big deal is....
Lube just makes things easier to manuver...


So....
About jesus...... :p

yadmonkey
Dec 5, 2006, 06:27 PM
With the ultimate failure of the PS3, I'd think they'd be very cautious to enter the gaming market.

Ultimate failure? You've gotta be kidding me. Sony has taken some well-deserved knocks from the press for their PS3 launch, but calling it a failure reminds me of a certain president announcing "mission accomplished".

Bill Gates himself said that the winner of this generation will be determined in the next holiday season (not this one). I see many reasons the PS3 could fail, but just as many reasons that it could pull out another market share victory. To claim to know now is silly.

That said, I highly doubt Apple will get into the console market by themselves. It's too big a nut for Apple to crack. I do think that Apple has been foolish to all but completely ignore gamers for all of these years and I'd hope they'd do something to make the Mac a more gaming-friendly platform. Should be easier now that they are running on Intel chips.

babyj
Dec 5, 2006, 06:34 PM
I wouldn't rule out a iTV / Wii hybrid unit. I'd of thought Nintendo would be more than happy licensing out the Wii technology as it would increase the installed user base, which means more games sales and licensing fees. Nintendo have done similar deals before with their hardware.

Though a simple iTunes licensing agreement for Wii would make sense as well. It would give Wii the media side its missing and increase the user base for Apple.

The console wars have finished, the next battle is all about controlling the living room. Whoever has the box connected to your TV will most likely be providing the media as well (tv, films, music) which is where the real money will be made.

0010101
Dec 5, 2006, 06:45 PM
I don't think it's Apple that's been ignoring gamers as much as it has been the game developers ignoring the Mac, largely as a result of their small market share.

If you're going to spend the time, money, and effort to develop a game, you want to do it on the platform that most people have.

If you write a book, are you going to publish it in Ancient Greek, or in English?

If you make a movie, are you going to release it on DVD, or BETAMAX?

Then you have the hardware issues.. some of these PC games require balls out video cards, for instance. How you going to make a Mac game and put a 256MB high end video card on the hardware requirement list? Right off the bat, you've just eliminated most of the 10% market!

Not like the kid with the Mac Mini can just buy a new video card and plunk in his machine to run your game.

That's why the PC is a far more attractive platform for game developers than Mac.. and now that Macs can run Windows, it's only going to get worse.

yadmonkey
Dec 5, 2006, 06:46 PM
The console wars have finished, the next battle is all about controlling the living room.

I don't know about finished, but I agree with the idea about controlling the living room. This is where I could see Apple teaming up with somebody, but none of the current players seem to be a good match.

Nintendo doesn't seem to concerned with the whole living room thing. If they did, they would have included a DVD player in the Gamecube. No, they seem to be all about doing their own thing with games and they don't need a partner. From the beginning, they always made money on Gamecube hardware, unlike their competitors. We may count them in the console race, but I get the distinct impression that they don't count themselves.

MS partnering with Apple. Not a chance.

Sony? Nope. Like MS, I think they want complete control and think they can gain it through their console.

So assuming Apple can't successfully break into the VG market, which I take as fact, who would they partner with? I just don't see it happening, though Apple is full of the most wonderful surprises.

Erasmus
Dec 5, 2006, 07:29 PM
This will never happen, but if I was Steve Jobs, I would buy TransGaming's Cider software.

Apple could really do with using Direct X, or their own compatible version of it. If Macs could run Windows games without buying Windows, that would be one step towards in my opinion destroying the console market. How about Apple modifying Cider to run 360/Wii/PS3 games, assuming it is possible?

At the moment, I think Apple should exploit the fact that we use OSX because we like the operating system and the hardware, but people use Windows because they like the software.

The way I see it, you can buy a 360/Wii/PS3, or if you already have a PC with a decent CPU, you can spend that money on a decent graphics card, and run a wider range of games more conveniently, on better, cheaper screens at a higher quality. Sorry to yet again bring up the Mini Mac Pro, but I believe Apple are halfway there with the Mac Pro being upgradeable, they just need a cheaper less powerful option, and to allow people to stick off-the-shelf graphics cards in. How long will it take for Apple to allow people to run 8800's or X2800's even in SLI? Whether they are used for games or CAD, it's about time Apple extended their very competitive use of very powerful CPUs to powerful GPUs, instead of the tradeoff it is today.

So a Mac Pro, Mini Mac Pro or iMac Ultra (I can see the pain in your eyes as you all read this) able to run Mac, Windows, 360, Wii, PS3, etc. games on excellent CPUs and excellent GPUs would surelly take a rather large chunk out of the console gaming industry.

Now before you all hate me, I know it will never happen, but IMHO I think it should. ;) :o

dbassett
Dec 5, 2006, 08:13 PM
Pipin... Failure

Leej
Dec 5, 2006, 08:49 PM
I don't think it's Apple that's been ignoring gamers as much as it has been the game developers ignoring the Mac, largely as a result of their small market share.<snip>

Multi-threaded OpenGL? Oh, that's right... wait until 10.5. Support for game pads? Nope. Surround sound for games? Another nope.
Yes, Apple's market share is small and there aren't a ton of game developers for Macs, but don't kid yourself: Apple's support of gaming is woeful.
Need more evidence? Open up Apple's site (http://www.apple.com/startpage/). Where's the tab on top for a link to the games section? Oh wait, it's just a small window with a link down on the bottom right corner of the page.
An Apple Console? Absurd.
More iPod games? Most certainly... but comparing or drawing a connection between iPod games and a 'gaming console' is stretching the rumor a hell of a lot. I mean, that's like translating a rumor of Apple releasing an ultra portable notebook into the iPhone.

charkshark
Dec 5, 2006, 09:19 PM
Game Console, no. Possibly more support for games, as well as developers focusing more on the mac platform. Hopefully with the upcoming release of Leopard, this will be a reality.Multi threaded Open-GL DirectX type system, it's all a dream for now. It is disgraceful how major game developers (Aspyr, Ubisoft for example) have treated the mac, utterly ridiculous. I also believe that an Apple game console is pushed even farther out of the question due to the primary marketshare of apple, designers & marketing firms, to even education.

If a game console is in Apples future, I don't think it is reasonably plausible until at least the end of the decade. I don't think around that time a Nintendo partnership is out of the question.

SwiftLives
Dec 5, 2006, 09:46 PM
I tend to agree that Apple won't come out with a game console.

Still - Imagine being able to buy and download a game from iTunes. Put it on your iPod. Plug your iPod into a dock on the game console, and play the new game. Or even bypass the iPod and wirelessly connect to the game from the console to the download computer. And then imagine having the game work just as well on a Mac as it does on the console.

That won't ever happen (for reasons too numerous to list)...but it's kind of a cool idea.

thejadedmonkey
Dec 5, 2006, 09:50 PM
but comparing or drawing a connection between iPod games and a 'gaming console' is stretching the rumor a hell of a lot.

Have you ever played a game on an iPod. They suck. Even the iPod can't do games.. apple hired everyone because they are clueless!

Hugh
Dec 5, 2006, 11:39 PM
iTV makes it so you don't need to take the extra step of making that DVD, also lets not forget about iTunes downloads. You can't burn iTunes downloads. iTV makes it so you can watch those on your TV and not just you computer.

Hugh


Apple entering the console gaming market is as stupid as Apple entering the cell phone market. For the same reasons.

Both markets are heavily saturated with competition and established names. The lions share of profits are made in both markets not by the actual hardware, but in accessories and service to the hardware. (games and control pads for consoles, airtime and chargers for cell phones)

iTV is a stupid idea, too. People have tried for years to stick a computer on a TV set. People in general just aren't interested. Why do I want a iTV when my current $99 DVD player can play anything I can burn to a disk, and my FREE DirecTV box has built in TiVO?

Yes, a box that sits on your TV that connects to your LAN has a certain geek appeal.. but I doubt it has much chance at large scale commercial success.. not when for the cost of a blank DVD-R I can burn anything on my computer to media my $99 DVD player can play.

Ravel
Dec 6, 2006, 12:24 AM
I'm torn between saying that they could or couldn't. In terms of technicalities and things like features Apple has always come through as it was with the iPod when the media player market already had some contenders... but simultaneously I think they're already kinda late for this generation of consoles - which could be good if they use this one generation as yet another lesson in which they can learn that power in terms of technicalities is always on the rise, but that ideas and their economical appeal to the consumers is just as important, which is something that Sony didn't quite catch this time.

c-Row
Dec 6, 2006, 01:37 AM
I favor the idea of Apple developing something similar to DirectX. Hiring hardware and software game developers for such a move makes sense to me, since they should know what a game/multimedia API should look like.

GFLPraxis
Dec 6, 2006, 01:56 AM
The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD competition could be avoided entirely by a download service. Broadband continues to get faster and faster, downloadable games and music are already a reality thanks to steam and itunes. Add this trend to the fact that most people are happy with the quality of their current DVDs, and iTV already makes a lot of sense.

It's only a matter of time until iTunes offers HD movie downloads, why take a risk on HDDVD or Blu-Ray when you can stick with the extremely well established iTunes? You can download music and HD movies cheaply and easily.

Storage may become an issue, but harddrives have come down in price considerably over recent years. Hell we will probably be streaming full length HD movies in the future- we're already streaming HD trailers in front row.

Bandwidth is the real issue. The majority of homes DON'T have the bandwidth for HD videos. Download services WILL make headway, but they won't be replacing physical disks on shelves for years to come.

siurpeeman
Dec 6, 2006, 02:37 AM
is it just me or are there too many rumors flying around for too few products actually being released? rumors of phones, "true" video ipods and tablet/ultra-mobile pc's and now a game console? there's only so much teasing a poor guy can take.

tog22
Dec 6, 2006, 04:44 AM
Remember peeps...back in the day..Apple WAS the gaming platform...

Was it? Wow, when?

(I suppose I do remember Mac games having far better graphics than PC games back in the day...)

EDIT: Hello, first post :)

cwerdna
Dec 6, 2006, 04:53 AM
I haven't read all the responses, but I seriously doubt this will happen anytime in the near future, at least not in the form of a home console. The 3 players are way too entrenched and I don't think there's a room for a 4th player.

Look at what happened to Sega Dreamcast and a bunch of other players who tried and failed: Atari Jaguar, 3DO, SNK's Neo Geo (too high end a niche mchine).

takao
Dec 6, 2006, 05:29 AM
not going to happen anytime soon... apple simply hasn't got any developers for games around and rather limited history with games (compared to microsoft and sony ... not even talking about nintendo)

both sony and microsoft have either been making games or hardware for game consoles/computers for years (microsoft has been a rather big publisher long before the xbox launched)


the only way to get a grip on the games market is with a slow and steady built up of a "Apple Game Studio" or something like that .. i think Apple has the funds for that step and could take some good & known game designers etc. and make a few hit games for another games console etc. to start off in that direction

Dagless
Dec 6, 2006, 07:12 AM
As a gamer and developer myself - I hope Apple don't do this. Unless it's a way to bring casual games to a range of systems, perhaps using scaling techniques/vector graphics to run the same game on an iPod, Mac or iTV.

I can't see them competing against Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft in this regard but I can see them continuing and evolving what they've done for the iPod. iTunes being the delivery system (a la Steam).

Dagless
Dec 6, 2006, 07:14 AM
Was it? Wow, when?

(I suppose I do remember Mac games having far better graphics than PC games back in the day...)

EDIT: Hello, first post :)

And Amiga systems had better graphics than all.
Maybe Apple was a big gaming company in America but the Amiga and Commodore ruled the roost here.

mkjj
Dec 6, 2006, 07:30 AM
For those who may be interested... or not! Pippin in action

http://homepage.mac.com/markjjohnson/MacStuff/PhotoAlbum11.html

http://homepage.mac.com/markjjohnson/MacStuff/PhotoAlbum12.html

Seasought
Dec 6, 2006, 10:02 AM
It just doesn't feel right to me.

If anything, I would hope for measures to get more PC games released for OS X, but I suspect the ability to dual boot will do nothing but push this further away. I guess I'm stubborn about always using OS X to play whatever games I want.

I'll be really surprised if Apple does in fact release a console of its own.

Nym
Dec 6, 2006, 10:45 AM
Apple entering the console business? Don't think so, in fact, it doesn't even make sense IMO...

PS3 failure?? Is it not a fact that the PS3's that were released sold-out in 2 hours? (Both USA and Japan)
How can anyone say that the sucessor to one of the best selling game consoles ever is going to be a failure based on what? 3/4 weeks of market presence? geez, gimme a break, PS3 will rule the console market again IMO, just let the prices drop and you'll see. :)

The Wii is nice, very original concept, however, it's a risk if you end up not liking the controller scheme and lots of game titles won't even be available I presume, although, Nintendo has my respect, M$ doesn't, don't buy 360's! You're supporting Darth Vader! :D

twoodcc
Dec 6, 2006, 10:48 AM
don't buy 360's! You're supporting Darth Vader! :D

but Darth Vader ened up good.....

MacinDoc
Dec 6, 2006, 10:54 AM
The Wii is nice, very original concept, however, it's a risk if you end up not liking the controller scheme and lots of game titles won't even be available I presume, although, Nintendo has my respect, M$ doesn't, don't buy 360's! You're supporting Darth Vader! :D
Currently, there are far more titles available for the Wii than for the PS3.

Nym
Dec 6, 2006, 11:00 AM
Currently my friend... :D
Darth Vader turned up to be good? Hmm, see you all getting defensive for me having a different opinion? :) I would buy a hundred Wii's before I will ever buy a 360, that's a fact.

As for the PS3 success or flop, in a year, we'll create a thread and talk about it, the console is not even in Europe... so it's unfair to decapitate it now :D eheh

Mr. Anderson
Dec 6, 2006, 11:06 AM
If Apple goes with a console, it won't just be a gaming console. Integrated with iTunes store, online game hosting, iTV, iPods - it would be so much more and only a small part of the package. And it won't be like the PS3 with a blue-ray - it will have to be something much more.

The key thing would be getting the right type of games as well. The possibilities are endless.

D

0010101
Dec 6, 2006, 12:18 PM
I don't know how anybody in their right mind could call a Mac the 'original' game machine. For home computer games, it was the Amiga and Commodore 64 that was king of the hill.. even systems like the Atari ST had the Mac's butt kicked for years.

Then in the early 90's with PC video cards improving and the demise of Commodore, the PC's took the lead in home PC gaming.. and machines from Nintendo and Sega locking down the console market.

Apple has never had a solid footing with game developers, mostly because Macs are so damned expensive they just never really appealed to people who were interested in anything aside from desktop publishing and graphics work.

Even in markets like video editing and music, the Amiga was the top choice.

The truth is, publishing and education markets were the only thing that kept Apple from tanking years ago.

50548
Dec 6, 2006, 04:09 PM
I don't know how anybody in their right mind could call a Mac the 'original' game machine. For home computer games, it was the Amiga and Commodore 64 that was king of the hill.. even systems like the Atari ST had the Mac's butt kicked for years.

Then in the early 90's with PC video cards improving and the demise of Commodore, the PC's took the lead in home PC gaming.. and machines from Nintendo and Sega locking down the console market.

Apple has never had a solid footing with game developers, mostly because Macs are so damned expensive they just never really appealed to people who were interested in anything aside from desktop publishing and graphics work.

Even in markets like video editing and music, the Amiga was the top choice.

The truth is, publishing and education markets were the only thing that kept Apple from tanking years ago.

Please don't forget the Apple IIGS, even to this date THE BEST sound any computer could ever produce...and with excellent graphics as well...too bad the proc was not that fast for the time.

Amigas, on the other hand, were nice but the hardware was lousy at best...the Apple IIGS build quality was simply stunning.

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 04:39 PM
Apple does not need to ruin their image with a stupid video game system. As if we need more of these. Besides, what would Apple bring to the table that the other systems don't? There's already plenty of games and gaming systems out there, Apple does not need to touch this one. However, I'm looking forward to the iTV thing.


Which is exactly why they [Apple] should buy ATARI (aka Infogrames USA) dirt-cheap, and slap the "Atari" moniker onto a game-centric version of the Mac...ie. a "headless" Mac that is inbetween the iMac and the MacPro on the available models that feature easily upgradable video cards.

Pimp the sucker out, take market share away from Dell XPS/Alienware and Falcon Northwest, and thereby improve "gaming" on the OS X platform for all. Not to mention by purchasing Atari, Apple would gain a large existing videogame publisher, as well as experience in publishing for multiple platforms (PC, PS2/3, Xbox, etc.). They could also play the "exclusive" route by acquiring titles and making them exclusive to the Mac and whatever game system platform ponied up the most amount of cash.

Apple would also acquire the great classic Atari game lineup which plays well on mobile phones, handheld game systems, and of course, the iPod.

Plus, Apple could try out new risky computer devices using the Atari name without damaging the Apple brand...such as a media center system for example.

The acquisition would also give the illusion to Joe Consumer that it isn't just Apple behind OS X, and thus negate the "risk" of switching platforms.

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 04:48 PM
Not gonna happen. The Pippin was an experience bitter enough...unless Apple buys cheapo Nintendo, of course...:rolleyes:


Or if Sony collapses and a combined Disney/Apple/Google acquires them. :)

Actually Steve should push Disney - via his stock - into making an offer to acquire Sony (cough, Columbia/Tri-Star, cough) Pictures. Might as well take advantage of the lax business acquisition climate during these last two years of the Bush Administration, just in case the other political party captures the White House next and has a less than big business friendly attitude to such acquisitions.

Sony Corp. itself could probably use the cash...and as long as Disney pledged to offer its combined content to future Sony platforms, I don't see why Sony wouldn't exit gracefully. Then again, Sir Howard Stringer comes from the media part of Sony's biz...

Then again, just imagine what Apple could do with Sony's 50% stake in SonyBMG.... withdraw from the RIAA... cut online music prices (we'd save almost $0.25 per $0.99 song due to them withdrawing from the RIAA)... etc.

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 04:53 PM
That is exactly what OS X needs: a proper Gaming API akin to DirectX, along with proper controller support OpenGL just doesn't cut it; run a non-ported game like WoW in OS X and WoW in Bootcamp, and Bootcamp will definitely be faster.


OpenGL would cut it if Apple could convince Sony, IBM, AMD/ATi, Intel, Nvidia, and others (including Apple itself) to invest in it in order to trump DirectX but still remain multi-platform.

Then again...3dfx created a new graphical API meant to replace GLide prior to being taken over by Nvidia... Of course, it would have to be updated massively.

And what about audio (for games) API on OS X? Too bad Apple didn't get any A3D/EAX IP goodness out of that settlement with Creative a few months back...

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 05:34 PM
Microsoft tried it prior to launching the XBox and were flatly shut down. Financially, Nintendo's probably in better shape right now than Sony is.


If by prior, you mean 11 years before the release of the Xbox.

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 05:40 PM
As a shareholder who mostly just wants to see Apple make tons of cash, here's what I'd love to see:
-A toolkit that allows PC developers to port games to the Mac OS effortlessly.
-Sell the freshly ported games through the iTunes store.


If you consider yourself an activist shareholder, perhaps you should make some noise to Apple Corporate to make a tender offer for Valve's Steam service. As the chief of 3DRealms mentioned, other game studios would love to use the Steam service but won't unless it is independent of Valve because they don't want to aid their competition. And Apple (or Google) acquiring that service would be better for all than if it fell into the hands of Microsoft...or Sony for that matter.

markjones05
Dec 6, 2006, 05:43 PM
lets see apple develope some games for there computers first.

Lynxpro
Dec 6, 2006, 05:54 PM
And Amiga systems had better graphics than all. Maybe Apple was a big gaming company in America but the Amiga and Commodore ruled the roost here.


*cough* Atari ST *cough*.

zdkm
Dec 6, 2006, 06:23 PM
http://xsomnium.zoto.com/img/45/f0f1b298c1478eded04235002a5d3376.jpg

Huh?

0010101
Dec 6, 2006, 08:42 PM
Please don't forget the Apple IIGS, even to this date THE BEST sound any computer could ever produce...and with excellent graphics as well...too bad the proc was not that fast for the time.

Amigas, on the other hand, were nice but the hardware was lousy at best...the Apple IIGS build quality was simply stunning.

I'll give ya the IIGS.. an excellent machine, with fantastic sound capabilities that for some strange reason, were piped into a MONO headphone jack.

Leaps and bounds better than the Mac of the day, and reverse compatible with a large back catalog of Apple II software.. but it never really took off except in educational markets, and took a back seat to the Macintosh in Apple marketing.. which left it a distant third behind the Atari ST and the Amiga.

To this day, the best selling computer of all time is the Commodore 64. All Commodore had to do is make the Amiga reverse compatible with the 1541 disk drive and C64 apps, and they'd probably still be ruling the home computer roost.

miggyb
Dec 6, 2006, 09:19 PM
I agree with whoever said they should start a game studio, first. A lot of games are being made in a formulaic manner now, such as FPSs and such. If Apple got some innovative ideas in the game market, it would benefit everyone.

Another thing it could do is just buy an old game studio, and give it a renaissance. I'm thinking Atari or Sega would be a good option. Oh man. Sega. Sega was awesome.

Um. Sorry about that. The Genesis brings back good memories.

The timing for this, however, would be horrible. They're doing good with iPods and their slow but steady iMac switchers, but nobody can be sure of their sucess with the iPhone. I think Apple should expand into other markets, yes, but one baby step at a time.

0010101
Dec 6, 2006, 10:33 PM
The problem with Apple buying a game studio is that if they made the games Mac only, they would either have to sell the games for $200 a copy, or they'd go broke.

When you only got 10% market share, and only 1 in 10 people out of that 10% are going to buy the game, you end up with not a lot of customers.. which is pretty much why nobody writes Mac only software.

If they buy a game studio and make PC and Mac games.. well.. what's the point?

Gamers don't prefer the WinTel platform because of one specific game, but because of MANY games that are PC only.. and a back catalog of games that spans a decade to choose from.

applekid
Dec 7, 2006, 12:27 PM
Wow, this rumor won't die will it?

Considering the X-Box 360 and PlayStation 3 have media capabilities, Apple might have to toss in some kind of gaming support with the iTV. It's not very likely though. Maybe some silly small games like on the iPod, but nothing full-blown, commercial home console quality. Possibly this would leave a presence in everybody's living room. And consequently, maybe the larger game development studios will catch on and eventually we get a full blown game console. Either way, I find it risky and not very Apple-like.

My other guess is that Apple might finally be pushing some real gaming support on the Mac. Mac gamers have been left in the cold too long.

Chef Medeski
Dec 7, 2006, 12:37 PM
Yes.... Mac OS X is already so receptive for games. It would be an easy port to a game console....

honestly, how much damn things do they want apple to have their hands in? Phones.... music players.... movie sales.... GAMING...

what happened to good ol fashioned hardware sales?

Chef Medeski
Dec 7, 2006, 12:39 PM
The problem with Apple buying a game studio is that if they made the games Mac only, they would either have to sell the games for $200 a copy, or they'd go broke.

When you only got 10% market share, and only 1 in 10 people out of that 10% are going to buy the game, you end up with not a lot of customers.. which is pretty much why nobody writes Mac only software.

If they buy a game studio and make PC and Mac games.. well.. what's the point?

Gamers don't prefer the WinTel platform because of one specific game, but because of MANY games that are PC only.. and a back catalog of games that spans a decade to choose from.

Yes... there is no software for Macs.....:rolleyes:

Thats a fairly hasty generalization if games aren't produced for OS X.

0010101
Dec 7, 2006, 01:07 PM
Yes... there is no software for Macs.....:rolleyes:

Thats a fairly hasty generalization if games aren't produced for OS X.

Game availability for the Mac is very poor at best. That's not a generalization, thats a simple fact.

I read a thing a few months back that suggested that for every 100 applications or games written for the PC platform, only 5 are also ported to the Mac.. and it is that poor software and game support that will prevent the Mac from ever gaining a significant portion of the home computer market.

I quite honestly know dozens of people who would switch to a Mac if they could run their favorite software on the Mac.. but they can't, unless they 'Boot Camp' and purchase a copy of Windows.. and really, the whole point of switching to the Mac is to get AWAY from Winblows, not just use it on a prettier box.

Apples marketshare is hindered by two major points. Software availability and system price.

gkarris
Dec 7, 2006, 02:47 PM
Game availability for the Mac is very poor at best. That's not a generalization, thats a simple fact.

I read a thing a few months back that suggested that for every 100 applications or games written for the PC platform, only 5 are also ported to the Mac.. and it is that poor software and game support that will prevent the Mac from ever gaining a significant portion of the home computer market.

I quite honestly know dozens of people who would switch to a Mac if they could run their favorite software on the Mac.. but they can't, unless they 'Boot Camp' and purchase a copy of Windows.. and really, the whole point of switching to the Mac is to get AWAY from Winblows, not just use it on a prettier box.

Apples marketshare is hindered by two major points. Software availability and system price.

How many of those "100" PC applications and games are actually worth using or playing???

gkarris
Dec 7, 2006, 02:59 PM
"Game Console" is the wrong word here. "Adding games to iTunes and iTV in addition to playing them on an iPod" is more accurate...

marioman38
Dec 7, 2006, 05:21 PM
It could be an ipod...

They had iPod

then iPod Video

now

iPod Gaming???

No one said it wasnt a portable.....

AppliedVisual
Dec 7, 2006, 10:59 PM
How many of those "100" PC applications and games are actually worth using or playing???

You're obviously not a gamer... Gaming is a HUGE industry in the Windows world. We're talking billions in industry revenue on an annual basis for PC games, only a very small percentage of these games make it to the Mac.

I think game development for the Mac will pick up over the next few years since Apple's sales continue to climb and now that Apple has shifted to Intel CPUs and essentially uses the same common video cards, game developers won't have to optimize critical segments for another CPU platform. Sure, there is still the issue of DirectX being used on Windows systems, which is not available on the Mac... However, we're seeing a lot of games release for Linux these days and if Linux with OpenGL can be supported, a Mac port isn't a whole lot more work if the developer/publisher thinks there's enough people who will buy it.

IMO, this is a great time for developers to jump into Mac game development as there's a hungry consumer base and little competition.

50548
Dec 9, 2006, 11:16 AM
You're obviously not a gamer... Gaming is a HUGE industry in the Windows world. We're talking billions in industry revenue on an annual basis for PC games, only a very small percentage of these games make it to the Mac.

I think game development for the Mac will pick up over the next few years since Apple's sales continue to climb and now that Apple has shifted to Intel CPUs and essentially uses the same common video cards, game developers won't have to optimize critical segments for another CPU platform. Sure, there is still the issue of DirectX being used on Windows systems, which is not available on the Mac... However, we're seeing a lot of games release for Linux these days and if Linux with OpenGL can be supported, a Mac port isn't a whole lot more work if the developer/publisher thinks there's enough people who will buy it.

IMO, this is a great time for developers to jump into Mac game development as there's a hungry consumer base and little competition.

He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...:rolleyes:

Quboid
Dec 9, 2006, 11:22 AM
If you guys thought the PS3 was expensive, let apple put out a game and see how much people would be able to climb the steep price it would carry.

AppliedVisual
Dec 9, 2006, 03:47 PM
He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...:rolleyes:

OK, if you want to look at it that way... I do realize that is what he was saying, but he came across as someone unfamiliar with PC gaming.

I do agree that many (actually most) titles out there are not worth buying. But there are a great many that are. And, sadly, only a small percentage of them are ever ported to the Mac.

gregorsamsa
Dec 9, 2006, 07:52 PM
He didn't ask that, he asked how many of those "100" PC games are worth buying or playing...most are not, if I may say...:rolleyes:

But a good number are worth buying; plus, just having that choice can mean a lot in determining what computer a gaming consumer on a budget ends up buying. One of the reasons PS2 sold as well as it did was backwards compatibility. It didn't matter that most people who bought PS2s would rarely play PS1 titles on a PS2. The fact that they could do counted for a lot in adding to the overall sales.

Many potential switchers into gaming won't touch a consumer-priced Mac simply because of integrated graphics. Sad, but very true.

applekid
Dec 14, 2006, 09:51 PM
I've got it :)

Apple partners with Nintendo to release a hard drive dock combo for the Wii. Hook it up via USB and you got a video game-playing media center iTV combo.

Apple wants to be in our living room, then they gotta break through Sony's PS3 and Microsoft's X-Box 360, both consoles that are very capable as media centers and very much competition for the iTV.

The way I see it is, all three consoles have USB, so this could really apply for any of the three game consoles. However, Nintendo's Wii is the only one to lack robust media capabilities. Give it a decent add-on, and it can compete with the other two consoles in the media center arena, too.

OdduWon
Dec 14, 2006, 10:17 PM
imagine if you had a mini with an iTv sitting on top in you livingroom. Then if you had a wirless connector that plugs into your (insert random gaming console here) you could play video games without having wires;)
if the iTv only plays media on your mac i don't think many people will want one. it need to be an apple solution to interfacing with a tv. otherwise it is just a fancy (lower possible resolution) dvd played. This needs to be a setup for using the mac like a mac on your tv. otherwise woop d doo:rolleyes:


^^^ Wiitv lol ;)

0010101
Dec 15, 2006, 11:36 AM
How many of those "100" PC applications and games are actually worth using or playing???

Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 5 applications that are available to PC only that prevent my wife from switching.

She loves my Mac.. and is constantly remarking how stable and flat out cool OSX is.. but she continues to use a PC, because the programs she uses only come in PC format.

I'll fully admit that there is a whole lot of PC software out there that is full on crap.. that the majority of that 'extra' software available for the PC isn't anything worth using.. at least not to most people.. but the truth is, it only takes one or two PC only programs to keep people on the PC.

Finally, the average end user isn't going to take your word for the fact that most of that software is garbage. When they're at the store, deciding to buy a $500 PC or a $1200 Mac, they're going to see an ocean of available software for the PC, and like 30 titles for the Mac.

It really isn't any different than buying a VCR in the 'old days'.. you're trying to decide between VHS and BETA, and the salesman is going on about how much better a format BETA is. Sure it's more expensive.. but it's BETTER!

You mention that there seems to be a lot more movies available for VHS, and the salesman says, "Yea, but most of those movies are crap!"

You know how many thousands of people play that 'Final Fantasy Online' game? My little brother (who is 24 years old) loves that game. He also covets my Mac.. and has said more than once, that if they made his game for Mac, he'd switch in a second.

OdduWon
Dec 15, 2006, 02:57 PM
Well, off the top of my head, I can think of 5 applications that are available to PC only that prevent my wife from switching.
(snip)
You know how many thousands of people play that 'Final Fantasy Online' game? My little brother (who is 24 years old) loves that game. He also covets my Mac.. and has said more than once, that if they made his game for Mac, he'd switch in a second.

which five???
my roomate plays ffonline and he wants a mac laptop, but to play his games he will have to get a MBP for the 256 gpu, he is ok with buying xp (since in two months it will be sold for cheap on amazon).
i think most young people who are considering switching to a mac don't because of the graphics cards in the lower end models (MB, Mac mini), not because of lack of programs, atleast this goes for those who know that Macs do windows, which 99 percent don't :eek:

AppliedVisual
Dec 15, 2006, 03:59 PM
which five???
my roomate plays ffonline and he wants a mac laptop, but to play his games he will have to get a MBP for the 256 gpu, he is ok with buying xp (since in two months it will be sold for cheap on amazon).
i think most young people who are considering switching to a mac don't because of the graphics cards in the lower end models (MB, Mac mini), not because of lack of programs, atleast this goes for those who know that Macs do windows, which 99 percent don't :eek:

Well, I can name far more than five major applications (not just games) that are not available for Mac... I have to run a mixed shop of Windows, Mac and Linux systems and I could easily eliminate all but one or two Windows systems if all the software I needed was available for OSX. I practically must have a dedicated Windows system for AtuoCAD alone. Then there's XSI (Windows/Linux only)... I'd go all Linux, but it's lacking way too many other software tools so it's even worse off. I admire Linux for what it is, but the open-source paradigm and current market approaches used by Linux developers will only take it so far. OTOH, Linux is still a much better gaming platform than the Mac. ...I'm lucky with my gaming though, I don't have much time for it these days so it's just a quick jaunt into the realms of WC3, WOW, CoD2 or Quake3/4. Luckily for me are all available for OSX... Too bad WC3 isn't universal binary though... It plays OK on my MBP, but the poor fans run full blast the whole time due to running a 3D graphics game via Rosetta. It really strains it, so I haven't really done it more than once or twice just to see if it would work.

Anyway back on topic... The Mac video memory sizes can be of real concern to some. 256MB is OK and I needed that for my 3D graphics software, not just games. A 512MB option on the MBP (even just on the 17" model) would be welcome. ...Although the x1600 isn't a real power user GPU anyway and that can also cause some hesitation. The 1" thin formfactor is cool and all, but some people would rather give that up for better cooling and a more powerful GPU... Even if they're sacrificing battery life as well.

All things considered, I would have given more thought to buying a Dell XPS or similar notebook if there was one out there with a dual-link DVI port. Dell, Hypersonic, etc.. don't offer such an animal, even with the 7960Go GPU and 512MB vRAM.

As for dual booting XP... I've found it to be a real problem for the MBP. There's just not enough drive space. I can't fit everything I need there and then a copy of XP with a couple applications, even on my 160GB drive... Just won't work. However, I'm eagerly awaiting the new VMWare Fusion release... It looks promising and will let me run most of my Windows software via a virtual machine and I can keep VM modules on external drives and/or even memory cards rather than the internal MBP drive.

OdduWon
Dec 17, 2006, 01:42 PM
Is there anything stopping apple from including software for the mac mini that will read playstations discs???:confused: ???? if it could do this it would be the ultimate gaming box.:D :D

AppliedVisual
Dec 17, 2006, 01:50 PM
Is there anything stopping apple from including software for the mac mini that will read playstations discs???:confused: ???? if it could do this it would be the ultimate gaming box.:D :D

Yeah, PlayStation licensing from Sony... The Mac Mini is powerful enough it could play PSX games just fine via emulation. PS2 games would be a stretch, though.. Highly unlikely given the poor video chipset in the mini combined with the need for emulation. IIRC, there was some software not too long ago that would allow for playing PSX games on the PC. The way it worked, it was a PSX emulator that included profiles for about 15 to 20 different games for each installment to the series, so you had to buy multiple editions of the product to obtain the properly licensed profiles for all the games you wanted to play. Not terribly efficeint and I don't think it worked all that well either.

mackiwi
Dec 17, 2006, 04:00 PM
I dont have my Wii online yet (if you dont have a wireless network, you can only connent via a PC running XP until the lan adapter comes out), but am chomping at the bit to download some classic games.

But the big surprise for mw was that I can download Sega Megadrive (genesis to you guys stateside) games! Since Sega is a software only company now, it isn't unreasonable that they would also license all there back catalogue games for their old system to Apple also.

download sonic right on to your itv.

All itv needs is a decent wireless controller.

Plus I heard the guts of the Wii are a good 5 years old or more - the gamecube inards - surely it wouldn't be that expensive for Apple to throw the equivilent into itv, im sure the most expensive parts of the wii are probably the controllers.

Of course, Apple could just buy nintendo, which I hope they do. :)

That's my 2 cents.

AppliedVisual
Dec 17, 2006, 06:45 PM
Plus I heard the guts of the Wii are a good 5 years old or more - the gamecube inards - surely it wouldn't be that expensive for Apple to throw the equivilent into itv, im sure the most expensive parts of the wii are probably the controllers.

Er... No. The hardware components inside Wii are fairly current. In fact, it can do just about everything the XBOX 360 and PS3 can do with the exception of the HD video processing and output.

Of course, Apple could just buy nintendo, which I hope they do. :)


I know this is a rumor that circulates around here a lot, but Apple isn't going to just "buy" Nintendo. I don't think people realize just how big Nintendo really is and what they're worth. Nintendo rules the portable gaming market - always has. I could see Apple doing some sort of merger with a company like Nintendo, but for now I think Nintendo will do best on their own. The Wii is a good product and will do just fine... It's already on pace to out-sell the Gamecube, which even though it didn't sell as well as the PS2, sold more than the XBOX and was a very good console. Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with the design using the 3" DVD discs though. It didn't curb piracy because the compact DVD-Rs were available anyway for camcorders and other such devices and they work in standard DVD drives and it just gave developers less space to work with. Wii isn't going to suffer from that same issue, but by not going with HD capabilities and sticking with standard-size DL DVD media (think just about 9GB per disc capability), it will do just fine.

Where Apple could really benefit from a game system is to provide media tie-ins with the Wii that work similarly to how the XBOX 360 can stream media off of your local PC systems. I think they could partner with Nintendo and make iTV and Wii work together... Could be a nice combination.

lorductape
Dec 17, 2006, 06:50 PM
Er... No. The hardware components inside Wii are fairly current. In fact, it can do just about everything the XBOX 360 and PS3 can do with the exception of the HD video processing and output.



how does that explain how bad the graphics are by way of comparison?

lorductape
Dec 17, 2006, 06:51 PM
I read a thing a few months back that suggested that for every 100 applications or games written for the PC platform, only 5 are also ported to the Mac.. and it is that poor software and game support that will prevent the Mac from ever gaining a significant portion of the home computer market.


you could just say 1 out of 20

AppliedVisual
Dec 18, 2006, 12:27 PM
you could just say 1 out of 20

I would say that 1 out of 20 is a bit optimistic. It's more like 1 out of every 20 titles that are worth consideration are ported. In actuality, I bet it's about 1% of all commercial game titles make it to the Mac. Too bad...

cloud 9
Dec 18, 2006, 10:16 PM
if apple would ever be even remotely interested in the gaming market, they should start with picking up the pace of the graphic cards game.

my brother almost bought himself a imac 24 inch, he loved the screen, the simplicity and the os. but he couldn't live with the 'poor' graphic card since it will 'only last' for games that are currently released and not for something released in +6 months. he bought himself a computer with a graphic card with 700something megabyte...


they are not going to enter the game console market. tho i would love to have a console in the shape of an apple :D

R.R.Mac
Dec 19, 2006, 07:55 AM
guys i think that they should bring out a 'gamepod' (or whatever you want to call it :)) This gamepod would have to be portable. It would have to be able to sync with apples and PC's. It would need wireless functions and instead of having disks, cartriges and so on, have a hard drive in it, PLEASE BEAR WITH ME HERE! What they would need do to sell the games is to have cd/dvd disks and to be able to put them into a computer. Once they have done this they can click a button and put in onto the gamepod. Also they would not be able to put it onto the gamepod if they were not connected to the internet (security reasons). Once it is onto the internet and onto your gamepod you would not have to put the disk onto it. This would be very convienient. It has to be connected to the internet so that if the disk was installed onto more than one gamepod, next time you sync with your computer for diary, calender and so on, or another disk. IF you had installed a disk onto another gamepod it would delete it.

Also apple have a great opportunity here. The game console market is a duopoly. This leads to supernormal profits in the long and short run. It used to be a monopoly which also leads to those profits. Apple needs to join the market with a great console and loads of advertising. This would make the market into a oligpoly, this also leads to supernormal profits.

Game developers will look at the product and make their products for them as they will benifit from them more then any other system (gameboy and PSP can be hacked). Some games will be absolutally amazing, off the top of my head grand theft auto will be amazing, also ridge racer and even games like medal of honor and coded arms.

If apple launches this gamepod they will be able to gain absolutally amazing profits out of it. If it is like my description and does not fail (like my PSP at the moment :() apple will have an amazing deal on their hands and they will be able to make massive profits out of it.

Apple are missing out on millions of £ if not billions if they choose not to do this. Really i think it would be one of the smatest moves apple could do to boost their profit.

Dont Hurt Me
Dec 19, 2006, 08:25 AM
For a "Media Center to have these issues with gaming,graphics and Tv is strange to say the least. These are the foundations in todays media world. 7600Gt is rock solid by the way,only in fairness it has to push a monster display in iMac, a 20" running a 7600GT would scream. Apple has the hardware to choose from as anyone else in the PC world. A simple hardware option could turn any Mac into a gaming powerhouse, its called the video card.:p

PtMD
Dec 22, 2006, 01:44 AM
The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD competition could be avoided entirely by a download service. Broadband continues to get faster and faster, downloadable games and music are already a reality thanks to steam and itunes. Add this trend to the fact that most people are happy with the quality of their current DVDs, and iTV already makes a lot of sense.

It's only a matter of time until iTunes offers HD movie downloads, why take a risk on HDDVD or Blu-Ray when you can stick with the extremely well established iTunes? You can download music and HD movies cheaply and easily.

Storage may become an issue, but harddrives have come down in price considerably over recent years. Hell we will probably be streaming full length HD movies in the future- we're already streaming HD trailers in front row.

I disagree. How much time before that is a feasible option for the vast majority of internet users out there?

In my case, I canít get fios, and donít see the value in an OC3. So, I have cable with a sustainable download rate of 450KB/s. I would consider this at least average throughput for the US (where I live). If I wanted to download a Blu-Ray equivalent quality1080P 2hr movie, it would take me 12+ hours if I choose not to use my link to download anything else or perform any work from home (both of which are very unlikely).

Now you may say, you just download it in advance while you are sleeping and watch it a few days later. The problem there is, I donít like to wait. :) If thatís the case and I am going to wait for the movie, I may as well rent it through netflix.

So, even if I wanted to wait for it, how much will it cost me to purchase this downloadable HD content and store it on a fairly reliable raid 5/6 solution? I would expect a premium price for HD content on the iTunes store, compared to their SD content. So, I would venture a guess of $20 for new releases and an additional $10 worth of array space (prorated NAS system and controller included).

Also, how many movies titles can I expect in HD through iTunes compared to what is widely available at a brick and mortar? I think iTunes would launch with fewer titles, but it should be able to catch up once the Studios jump on board. This is just as risky as the format war debate in my mind however.

All things considered in my reality, I prefer to drive to Best Buy, pick up a movie for $25 that matches my current mood, and watch it 15 minutes later.

What Blu-Ray or HD-DVD doesn't provide me is next day access to TV shows I may have missed for one reason or another. Which is what I use iTunes for most and would likely be the driver for me to purchase an iTV. That and the dream of being able to replace my disparate TiVos with a more network-hub focused, iPod friendly, family of devices.

Lastly, I may be *old* having lived through the CD Audio fad, but I prefer to have a copy of my music/movies on optical media. I have burned through quite a few hard drives in my day and prefer to have a non magnetic copy. I have CDs and DVDs considerably older than my oldest functioning hard drive. Itís comforting to know I can rip them again (for fair use of course) as needed from the originals. If the iTunes store had a policy where you could re-download your content, I wouldnít so much mind then, but they donít (at least I donít think they doÖ).

gregorsamsa
Dec 25, 2006, 01:59 PM
guys i think that they should bring out a 'gamepod' (or whatever you want to call it :)) This gamepod would have to be portable. It would have to be able to sync with apples and PC's. It would need wireless functions and instead of having disks, cartriges and so on, have a hard drive in it, PLEASE BEAR WITH ME HERE! What they would need do to sell the games is to have cd/dvd disks and to be able to put them into a computer. Once they have done this they can click a button and put in onto the gamepod. Also they would not be able to put it onto the gamepod if they were not connected to the internet (security reasons). Once it is onto the internet and onto your gamepod you would not have to put the disk onto it. This would be very convienient. It has to be connected to the internet so that if the disk was installed onto more than one gamepod, next time you sync with your computer for diary, calender and so on, or another disk. IF you had installed a disk onto another gamepod it would delete it.

Also apple have a great opportunity here. The game console market is a duopoly. This leads to supernormal profits in the long and short run. It used to be a monopoly which also leads to those profits. Apple needs to join the market with a great console and loads of advertising. This would make the market into a oligpoly, this also leads to supernormal profits.

Game developers will look at the product and make their products for them as they will benifit from them more then any other system (gameboy and PSP can be hacked). Some games will be absolutally amazing, off the top of my head grand theft auto will be amazing, also ridge racer and even games like medal of honor and coded arms.

If apple launches this gamepod they will be able to gain absolutally amazing profits out of it. If it is like my description and does not fail (like my PSP at the moment :() apple will have an amazing deal on their hands and they will be able to make massive profits out of it.

Apple are missing out on millions of £ if not billions if they choose not to do this. Really i think it would be one of the smatest moves apple could do to boost their profit.

I accept the merit of much of your post, however, I'm seriously beginning to doubt whether Apple have the ambitions to take on any major markets & the investment that would entail. The gaming market, particularly, would need a consistent & significant investment over a few years. Apple won't do this.

In my 14 months of Mac ownership I've met plenty of people who would've switched to Mac if only Apple's consumer range had dedicated graphics. I personally know of a few PC owners who resisted a Mac mini purely because of its graphical deficiencies. Even the iMac's graphics, IMO, leave much to be desired by today's standards. But despite the obvious, Apple have sat back on their laurels & done nothing about this. Why?

Apple have sold about 5m Macs this year; really, no great shakes in view of the problems MS have had bringing out Vista & the consequent recession in PC sales. However, most of said 5m Macs seem to have gone to previous Mac owners. This kind of loyalty may bode well for Apple's future, but it also induces Apple with a certain kind of smugness, which is then reflected in how it conducts its business plans. Apple know they can stay well in profit without taking any risks.

Your ideas may be sound, but it would take (as you say) "loads of advertising", which, apart from the nauseating "I'm a Mac" internet ads, is an idea almost anathema to Apple.

People may knock MS, but whether with Vista, Xbox or Zune, MS thinks big. Apple make wonderful products, & I love my Mac, but apart from the phenomenal (& unexpected) success of iPod, Apple will continue to do just enough to satisfy its loyal user-base. - As for me, next year I'll be buying any computer or games console that suits my gaming needs.

zap2
Dec 25, 2006, 02:03 PM
I'm seriously beginning to doubt whether Apple have the ambitions to take on any major markets & the investment that would entail. The gaming market, particularly,

Seeing how the iPhone by Apple is more a matter of when it will come vs if it will come, I think Apple is taking on that HUGE market. Not to mention everyday Apple takes on the Personal Media Market, which they helped to make, and the computer market which the helped to make.


The gaming market involves pouring TONS of cash in a system...look at MS they have lost billions on xBox. Apple can't afford to take that kind of a lose, and more importantly they have no need to take that loss.

gregorsamsa
Dec 25, 2006, 02:24 PM
Seeing how the iPhone by Apple is more a matter of when it will come vs if it will come, I think Apple is taking on that HUGE market. Not to mention everyday Apple takes on the Personal Media Market, which they helped to make, and the computer market which the helped to make.


The gaming market involves pouring TONS of cash in a system...look at MS they have lost billions on xBox. Apple can't afford to take that kind of a lose, and more importantly they have no need to take that loss.

Indeed, but I consider the iPhone (or whatever they'll call it) to be part of Apple's low-risk strategy aimed purely at its existing hard-core, loyal user-base. It's a strategy which has resulted in the potential growth of OS X's user-base being consolidated at a disappointing approx 20m when, IMO, it could be far higher. I disagree that they any longer take on the Personal Media Market. These days I think Apple merely consolidate their strong position, but at a time when MS has been in pretty poor shape & there for the taking.

My feeling is that when Vista's inevitable problems are addressed with a SP1 or SP2 edition, Apple will look back on this period with regret at losing a golden opportunity to have made a greater impact in the computer market.

AppleIntelRock
Dec 31, 2006, 12:21 AM
Most of Nintendo's products as of late seem very apple- like. Honestly, I don't know how apple could produce a gaming system.

OdduWon
Dec 31, 2006, 09:23 PM
Honestly, I don't know how apple could produce a gaming system.

Apple is not going to make a playstation like gaming console... instead they are going to bring all the world of warcrafters in to the living room where they can then sit for hours and hog up the big screen :D
for apple to go for an independent platform like Xbox of ps3 is highly unlikely. If they could make a graphics blade, or just a more capable mini, they could have a PC gaming machine that would connect thru iTv to be playable on our tv's. This would truly bring apple in to the living room.
and may bring some die hard pc gamers over to the Mac side.

is it possible to make a graphics blade to connect to a mini :confused:

seems like if they did it would look like an iTv...
you know if you stacked the three of them on top of eachother they would look like the fabled mac mini tower ;)

Mac'Mo
Dec 31, 2006, 11:31 PM
Apple should stick to what they know best, and i dont think thats video games.

tnielson
Jan 1, 2007, 01:46 AM
The idea is extremely improbable.

I think Apple has a fundamental disdain for gamers. Apple users are thinkers, creators, innovators. Not button mashing, smack talking, chip eaters. Now, Macs might be used by the people creating games, particularly those producing art assets and music, but actual sweaty gamers defiling a Mac, Yuk!

There seems to be a misunderstanding in some of the comments here of the hardware it would take to compete in the living room. The notion that somehow a mini could be pressed into service is literally laughable. In many ways it would take Mac Pro level performance, with better graphics than are available in BTO. Anyone spotting that Apple would need to sell pro level performance for less than $1k?

Who would write games for it? I don't mean Breakout or Bejewelled, but actual top tier games like Gears of War. Those games cost millions. Who in their right mind would invest that for game hardware from a company that hates gamers.

Apple would be far better off building a Blueray player with itunes streaming capability. They would be competing in the stereo isle, at well over $1K, with a compelling feature set other standard High Def players can't match; the fairplay drm lock in. A competitive gaming system is well beyond Apple's capabilities or desires.

bobber205
Jan 1, 2007, 02:15 AM
Whatever it is and whatever it costs, you can bet I'll do everything I can to get one if released. :D

macintel4me
Jan 1, 2007, 06:39 AM
I could see "iTV" being able to play games that are sold for the iPod. Currently, the iPod games are the only iTunes content that do not work on a computer.

gregorsamsa
Jan 1, 2007, 08:32 AM
The idea is extremely improbable.

I think Apple has a fundamental disdain for gamers. Apple users are thinkers, creators, innovators. Not button mashing, smack talking, chip eaters. Now, Macs might be used by the people creating games, particularly those producing art assets and music, but actual sweaty gamers defiling a Mac, Yuk!


So, if people play games then they're unlikely to be "thinkers, creators, innovators", going by your reasoning? I take it then that either you're a creator or an innovator?

Before you stereotype all gamers, consider Apple's "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ads. I'd say that the very people that Apple are now trying to win over (& IMO, embarrassingly so!) are likely to have at least some interest in gaming.

Most computer owners I know play computer games, even though that wasn't their main reason for buying a computer. They also like OS X, but they'll never buy a consumer Mac because of limited graphics. For sure, Apple will continue to lose countless potential switchers like these.

It's sad that Apple is still associated with the type of elitist inanities people like you seem to take pride in.

tnielson
Jan 1, 2007, 05:07 PM
So, if people play games then they're unlikely to be "thinkers, creators, innovators", going by your reasoning? I take it then that either you're a creator or an innovator?

Yeah, I wrote that unclearly. It is my contention that it is Appleís own self image that leads to a deep rooted disdain for gamers. I think Apple itself believes the statements that concern you. Not necessarily at every level, but at the levels that matter.

I'm a gamer. I was a Mac gamer from í84 through the first time I saw a 3dfx Voodoo 1 card. Once Voodoo started shipping it was grimly clear I had been vanquished. With great regrets and guilt I defected to the dark side. From a gamers perspective Iíve never looked back. The quality, quantity and performance of the games I wanted to play increased many fold.

From a computer users perspective, however, I look back all the time. It has been extremely frustrating to see the machines I would like to own (Macs) and not be able to because Apple doesnít want my business.

Apple just doesn't have the drive needed to build a console that competes with companies that actually embrace gamers. They don't have the stomach for it, and wouldn't be effective.

btw, I'm the furthest thing from a creator or an innovator you'll find on this board (also inane, but not an elitist).

RichP
Jan 1, 2007, 05:56 PM
Apple would be far better off building a Blueray player with itunes streaming capability. They would be competing in the stereo isle, at well over $1K, with a compelling feature set other standard High Def players can't match; the fairplay drm lock in.


I agree. I want to see an iTV with Blueray, even if its at a higher pricepoint then the "current" iTV. I dont want to add boxes in the living room, I want to consolidate them.

gregorsamsa
Jan 1, 2007, 08:01 PM
I'm a gamer. I was a Mac gamer from ’84 through the first time I saw a 3dfx Voodoo 1 card. Once Voodoo started shipping it was grimly clear I had been vanquished. With great regrets and guilt I defected to the dark side. From a gamers perspective I’ve never looked back. The quality, quantity and performance of the games I wanted to play increased many fold.

From a computer users perspective, however, I look back all the time. It has been extremely frustrating to see the machines I would like to own (Macs) and not be able to because Apple doesn’t want my business.

Apple just doesn't have the drive needed to build a console that competes with companies that actually embrace gamers. They don't have the stomach for it, and wouldn't be effective.

Forget my "elitist inanities" remark; it clearly doesn't apply to you & was an over-reaction on my part. I just meant to say that many gamers are also "thinkers, creators, innovators."

I don't disagree with your latest post. Apple making a foray into the console market would indeed be a disaster for the reasons you mention (I posted similar views a few days ago). But Apple placing better graphics in some of their consumer Macs would, IMO, still go a long way to attracting more switchers into embracing OS X...easily the best OS out there. The more switchers Apple attracts, be they gamers or whoever, the better it'll be for the long-term future of OS X.

BTW, I too have contemplated going over to the "dark side" for similar reasons...however, come what may, I'll definitely be keeping my Mac!